Draft Show: The Most Important Senior Bowl Ever?

rear view mirror. Next up the NFL Combine. Oh wait, I guess that's not happening this year, but we're gonna

break it down regardless. Here on the Draft Show, We've got Bucky Brooks, Bryant brought us David Hellman, I'm Kyle Yeoman's Chris Beam in the back doing fantastic work as always, as we are now eighty three days out, gentlemen from the NFL Draft that is supposed to be held in Cleveland, Ohio, and well, the Senior Bowl was held in Mobile, Alabama over the last couple of days in a concluded their festivitis festivities rather on Saturday, and one credit to Jim

Nage and company of getting the Senior Bowl all the way through with only one positive COVID test over thirty four hundred and ministered throughout the week down in Mobile. Two a really great showing for a lot of guys that we're going to kind of break down, some of which that may be wearing stars on the side of their helmet starting as soon as next season. So well, Bucky Brooks, you got a chance to break it down on Thursday, and you get to come back on Tuesday.

So what were your overall thoughts of the Senior Bowl and some things that you saw down in Mobile. Well, I mean, I think it was great that they were able to get the game played without a hitch. I think it was probably the most important Senior Bowl that we've seen, and sometime without the combine, without a lot of these private workouts, this is the last time that you were going to get guys get a chance to see guys play ball. And I think there are a

lot of players down there that helped themselves. I think you're going to have a faction enough scouts to kind of lean on the players that played most recently, and that lasting impression from the Senior Bowl is really going to impact the way draft boards are stacked around the league. Right, Yeah, I think that Buck, Yeah, I think Bucky's absolutely right. And you know, you start to talk about, you know, and you mentioned in the open kind of what's going

to happen with the lack of the combine. And again, tip of the cap to Jim Naggy and the staff, Tip of the cap to the players, the coaches from Caroline in Miami for putting on a great show. It was a very competitive game, and I think there were some players that if you were talking about initially you might have had a certain level on your board. If you've evaluated kids that might have been a fifth round grade going in and now maybe hey, a good Senior

Bowl helped him and elevated him. Maybe it's kind of into a third round status. Now, maybe you weren't too sure about kids from a smaller school. You know, we all learned about an offensive lineman from Whitewater, you know, and if you know now you have to go hunt that tape. And so, you know, there are a lot of things that are great about the Senior Bowl, but the fact that they were able to play the game

make it competitive. Do it in a safe matter. I think it is a great testament to really the whole scouting community. It was such a relief too. You know, obviously it's an unprecedented Senior Bowls. You know, Brian, you and I didn't go, which is you know, that's a change for us, but like it felt very similar like I, you know, you get to sit down and watch the practices and see all the same stuff, Like I was watching it from my couch instead of the press box

at the stadium. But you know, I still felt like I was glean information from it, and I guess, you know, maybe I should have expected that, but you're just you get so used to doing it one way over the course of seven or eight years, you know, I had a lot of misgivings, But by Thursday, I felt like I had just as similar a grasp on what was

going on as I usually do. So that was it was a nice relief that you were still kind of able to glean information from mobile even though obviously very very different, it didn't feel a little bit different in the fact that I feel like if we were in the stadium and it wasn't at lad People's this year, it was across the street in South Alabama's campus, But if you were in the stadium, I feel like you would see one side of the field, whereas if you're

watching from home, you actually get to see the ALL twenty two and actually kind of get to see it

as it comes in. The NFL did a nice job of kind of updating things along the way, and so maybe you get to see a little bit more off the top and maybe get to not have those preconceived notions whenever it comes to scouting these players, because Brian, I mean I know you you know this very well as most do in the past of being at a Senior Bowl, being in one end zone in the the defensive lineman and offensive linemen are in the other end zone.

You can't really scout at that point, but if you have, if you hear some things and rumblings from other people that were in that end zone. You didn't have that this year. You just had kind of the straightforward ALL twenty two tape to evaluate in teams are the same way, yeah, I know absolutely. And Kyle, which you got to be as an old krusty scout like me and work your way in the press box where you grab binoculars and you can try and again, you got to keep your

head on a swivel up there. Bucky was always down there in the middle. Buck. You liked to be right where the where the action was. I was always up top, you know, hanging out with Ozzie Newsome and you know, and that was fun for me because I always got

an education sitting next to Ozzie during that time. But yeah, the evaluation part of it, if the Senior Bowl will never change, and you know the fact that you can be in the stands, that you can get the film later on, and the fact that the teams too do a great job. I thought the Carolina Panthers the Dolphins did a great job of the the type of practices that they were having, the one on one stuff. You know,

that's what you want out of the Senior Bowl. You want to see those compete parts, you know, the chance when they're in the individual drills and stuff. Yeah, you can see the footwork, the athletic ability, but man, it was those competitive situations that really got you go and

it really helped you with your evaluation. Yeah, Brian, I think there was something too that like just the pace and tempo or practice, the fact that both of these coaching staffs to me, appear to be like these urgent teaching coaching staffs, like trying to get guys moving, trying to see if they can adjust and adapt to the tempo.

I thought that was outstanding. I thought the situations that both teams utilize, whether it's two minute, whether it's coming out the back, those things that were kind of sprinkling throughout the practice state gave us a chance to see players and critical situations just to see how they performed. And you may not hold those things differently, but you do want to see how guys react when it does counting,

when they are kind of keeping scoring. I did really think that Matt Rule and Brian Flores kind of stole the show. I mean, as the coaching staffs. I thought one Matt Rule, who I mean, I mentioned this last week, but I knew him down in Waco. He's always had that intense practice, even the two of days and such at Baylor and what he kind of brought from the college level. He has those same kind of practices with the Carolina Panthers, and you saw that of course at

the Senior Bowlers passed week. But man, I really like Brian Flores too, Bucky and what he brings to the table as a teaching head coach and somebody that evaluates how much do you think these prospects gained from being down there? And how much do you think coaching staffs around the league recognize the fact that they might have gained from being with these two sides. You know, I'll say you haven't haven't played in the Senior Bowl back

in ninety four, long long time ago. I will say that is your first introduction to the way the pro game is, and there is a difference, the tempo, the intensity is a lot different than where you come from at the collegiate level. And I think Brian Floyd's and matell did a great job of introducing guys to the phrase a BA pro be on time, play hard, know what you're supposed to do, make sure you're prepared when you're on the field. There's a certain standard of expectation

in terms of your performance. I think those things are great, and I think for those coaching staffs and personnel staffs they have such a huge advantage over everybody else because for one hundred and fifteen or so players, they really got to know them. And in a draft where you don't have the combine and the other stuff where you get to know people they have information that others won't have, and that will it should hurt help them when it comes time to make picks. Yeah, I think I think

Buckie's absolutely right too. You know, when you look at the fact that they got to meet with those kids at night and talk to them about how they know, how are they taking in information? You know, every day they would try and install something, and so now you're able to look at that kid in the face and say, hey, man, he picked up everything, every check, every gian, He's taken notes, you know, very intense, or maybe it was on the other end of it where it's like, man, that kid

had that far away look. I don't know if he really totally understood what we were saying. So that that's a huge advantage when you get to hang around those kids, you get to meet with them, you get to eat with them. You know, even with all the COVID stuff going on, you still have an opportunity to be with him as some of the other teams were kind of

on the outside as always looking in. David oh Man, I had the how do I want to phrase it, I like I was blown away by Matt Rule, is what I'm trying to write to the point where you know, and you know, you think back to last year when the Cowboys were hiring their coach, and the big thing was like they wanted a super they wanted a super

experienced guy. You know, Mike McCarthy arguably the most experienced option, and I just found myself watch in these practices and I was like, oh, maybe they should have taken a chance on the rising star instead of the guy that's been around the block a few times. Because obviously I have no idea how good Matt Rule's career is going

to be, but I was super impressed. And you know, based on his one season so far and what I saw from him this past week and what he did in college at multiple different places, I'm just not going to be surprised if he winds up being a very, very successful head coach. Yeah, I'm gonna give you guys a little insight. He was surprised he didn't get an opportunity to meet with the Cowboys. Yeah, he really he

really wanted to meet with the Cowboys. And you know, he's a guy that went to the Jets last year and kind of talked about how he would like to put his program in place, and he had a really good understanding of what he wanted to do. The Cowboys, as we've talked about here a bunch different with the general manager, different with the director of player personnel. It's a different environment. But Matt Rule really wanted the opportunity to meet with the Dallas Voice and he just did

not get that. So, you know, good for the Carolina Panthers, they got a really good football coach. This guy's wanted every level. Ye you know, you look at what he did at Temple, you look at Baylor's situation was an absolute train wreck when he got there, and you know, to get them in bowl games and stuff like that. I think there's a lot of credit to him and his staff. Took him from one to eleven and losing to Liberty and UTSA to the Sugar Bowl in three

years at Baylor. I mean, that's remarkable with that's own Bucky. Yeah, I think there's a lesson to be learned when we talk about head coaching and head coaching searches. I think Matt Rule gives you a clear example of how you can find someone who may not have NFL experience, but they can be successful because they have built multiple programs and they have a system in place where they knew exactly what they want to do, how they want to

do it, and those things. And I think what you saw from Matt rule he has a confidence that he knows exactly where he is taking whatever team he's in charge of. And because he's kind of had a tried and true formula that's been time tested and it's worked at different locations, I think that embolds him and that's why he was so I won't say arrogant, but that's why he walked away from just like, no, if I can't do it the way that I want it, I'm good. I'll wait for a situation where I can do it

the way that I know needs to be done. Because I've been successful doing it that way. I think it's important. Yeah, I think he's gonna have a lot of success. And unfortunately, like some people in the chat have joked already have him watching the periscope stream and they joke to all, we can't draft a coach. That's unfortunate whenever it comes to the Dallas Cowboys, And I mean, hey, nothing against

Mike McCarthy. I like Matt Rule a lot, but Mike McCarthy's got to make some picks coming up in the next couple of months from the Senior Bowl. So winners and losers from the Senior Bowl. And I hate even saying the word losers because I feel like it's really hard to decline whenever you go and you show out and you compete at the Senior Bowl. But Dave, you talk about sitting down and getting everything you got from

mobile like you have in the past. But were there anybody that stuck out as a winner this week in somebody that really really raised their draft stock more so than you thought they would going into it. I don't know about more so than I thought they would, but like, I love it. I love it when a plan comes together.

Because we sat down on Tuesday morning and you know, Bucky was unavailable, so Jeff Kavanaugh joined our show and Jeff was like, you better watch this Central Florida safety Richie grant Ye and I'm like, okay, I'm absolutely so Like that day, I sat down with his UCF tape watched that for about an hour and a half. I was like, this guy kicks ass. I like him a lot. Then I start watching Senior Bowl practice and he's kicking assid the Senior Bowl as well, like picking guys off,

batting down passes. You know, watched him on tape. They used him a variety of different ways. He can cover, he's not afraid to tackle, he's a good blitzer. And he took all of that to Mobile and it certainly seemed to translate because he was definitely one of the guys that was getting talked about all week long. And uh, you know, I was very vaguely familiar with him when last week started, and now he's like one of my favorite, you know, defensive backs in this class. So I would

say he had a hell of a week. Yeah, welcome to the party, David. Hey, nice to have you here. Hey, as long as I'm here, as long as i'm yeah, matters, as long as you make the journey. Yeah, you know, Kyle, if I could stick in the defensive back area too, I think I didn't know a whole heck of a lot about Keith Taylor from Washington, and you know, and and again when you start to watch the Washington players, you know, Elijah Molden is a guy that we we

kind of talk about there and stuff. But Keith Taylor, I think really helped himself. Measuring in at six two, one hundred eighty eight pounds, you know, we're we're we're talking about a guy that's got the length he's got at the reach. He was very competitive in the drills. I remember watching a couple of times where him and des fit Patrick were going at it pretty good in the one on one stuff, and so you know, that's the kind of stuff that you really really need. You know,

when you want to evaluate how's the guy. Is he around the ball, is he knocking balls down? Is he making plays? Is he sticking coverage? Is he a long rangy type of a build. I mean, as Bucky would say, he checks off a lot of the boxes for you. So that's one of those guys you have to go out there and study. Right now, the Cowboys are going to be hunting corners, They're going to be hunting safeties. You know, they're going to be hunting defensive players. Start

with the guys. As you know from what I'm learning a lot about what you're going to get from this from their defensive coordinator now, is that you want these players they look for long rangy guys is what they're talking and guys that can run, they're really worried about the deep part of the field and having to carry that. See, you got to be able to run, but you got to have some link to it to be able to knock down those passes and get your hands on the balls.

Keith Taylor, I thought had a really good week for from the University of Washington. Man. It's funny because you guys have hit two of the guys that really stood out to me in the secondary. Obviously, when we're looking at it from the Cowboys standpoint, all eyes are on the secondary and then up front. And so last thing about Keith Taylor six two five, he's from southern California.

You know. The only thing that I think those people who were upset about the Byron Jones situation might find issue with Keith Taylor because he played three or four seasons and he doesn't have one career interception. So depending upon where the ball skills are valued over length, that could be something. So now it's about you know, we can't even really have the private workout. So at the pro day, Canny catch the ball? How does he play the ball in the air like that is the uncertainty

that you can't check off in the box. Richie Grant was fantastic his ability not only to kind of play from the deep middle, but he can play man to man and one on once. He was locking people up

and even bounce outside to corner. I think the other guy that stood out from Central Florida Robert Rochelle for a little bit the first couple of days when you're dig in his background, the ten a time in Louisiana third in the one hundred meters, to go with the athleticism in the twitch, I think if you're looking for these corners in this new system, you have to look for an athlete, because I think that athleticism is going to be a big part of what they want to

do on the perimeter. Rochelle was how if I can mention one more guy? Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead. I was just gonna say. Rochelle was another Yeah, yeah, sure? Did I mean in Central Florida did a nice job, you know with their Josh Hypel now going to Tennessee. I mean he's been able to build a nice program there at Central Florida. Be interesting to see if he can kind of fix things in Tennessee. Now, another kid I want to point out too, on the defensive side

of the ball. And this is one of my favorite schools. And David Hellman's father went to school here at Tulane, but Cambridge, Cambridge sample from Tulane. Now, this is a kid that six three you two hundred and seventy four pounds. Where you're gonna play him, You're gonna play him it in? Could you play him inside? He's kind of got that that body that can lend you to do a little

bit more. But I thought he was a guy as you watch the drills and stuff like that, the way he was able to capture the edge, the way he was able to put pressure on blockers. Keep an eye on Cameron's sample going forward here as a guy that probably could rise up the board. Again, he's got a good looking body there. He could get the corner, he can attack, and he's from one of my think one of my favorite schools. I hope my son ends up there at two lane. Oh okay, how about that a

little bit. It's a personal thing. Yeah, it's a personal thing here. No, I watched this kid play a bunches here again. I love I'm loving two lane football all of a sudden, I love what really friends and those guys are doing down there. I think they're getting better players. And again, Sample was one of those kids. He got the invite. I think he had I think he had a great week. I he is that like perfect tweener with that body, and that's what I thought all week

long when I was watching him. And then I've got a really close friend Brian, so I've got a kind of personal connection there too, that does a lot of their play by play broadcasting for Tulane. He's like an alum and does a lot of their play by play. And I asked him about Cameron Sample prior to the week, and the only two words he sent me back were badass.

I mean, that's what he said. He loves him, talks about the tape, talks about the way that he's stronger than what is two hundred and seventy four pounds looks at and really that you could see that on the Senior Bowl tape. And Bucky, I know you were talking a little bit ago about these defensive backs. I was really impressed with the defensive backs, just based off of the fact that it was such a strong wide receiver group, and I thought the wide receivers would dominate. That was

definitely not the case. I mean, y'all mentioned Richie Grant and Keith Taylor. Keith Taylor I thought had a really slow start to the week, and then he had one of the best finishes to the week out of anybody in the entire group of prospects down in Mobile. So I don't know about you, guys, but I was really impressed with what the defensive backs showed out against a

really good wide receiver group. Oh sorry, I want to, Bucky, when you get down, I want to ask you a question about a player in particularly want to I'm gonna get your no, Like none of it's funny you talk about the defensive backs. I do believe there were some guys that didn't play in the game that kind of helped themselves early in the week on the defensive front. Levi on Zarique just at one that Tuesday, Yeah, the Tuesday.

His hand skills like I remember writing in my nose, like man, he's missed Miyagi, like the way that he uses his hands, wax on, wax off, he does a great job. And Boogie Basham from Wake Forest. Yeah, boogie Basham's athleticism and stuff. I remember writing up a report on him last year because I thought he was gonna

come out early and really liking him. But watching him in his explosiveness and twitch in a class that man, there's a lot of just uncertainty of defensive tackle, defensive van ken, this got kick inside, all this other stuff. I just think those names are going to get hotter as we get closer to the draft. Yeah, he's kind of funny to watch that wake Forest tamp He's got that single number, that number nine, so you're kind of like, you know he's but you hate that looking kid physically,

I mean really good looking kid. Hey, Bucky, if I could go back to you, the kid that kind of caught my eye was the Michael Carter kid from North Carolina. Though, Okay, where where do you see him? You know where? I mean a lot of people really like him, but where do you kind of see him in the in the in the mixing thing? Because I know people are bashing running backs now, you don't want to take him high. Is this one of those kids that's going to fit into the mix Because I liked what I saw the

power with this kid running the football. You know, it's funny Brian and watching North Carolina Javonta Williams is to do like Javonta Williams is the one. Michael Carter would start, Javontay Williams would come in. Javonta Williams finished the year where maybe twenty two twenty three touchdowns, has more explosiveness

in those things. I thought it was actually good for Michael Carter to be away from North Carolina, to get to the Senior Bowl and be able to have the stage to himself because he is a lot better than even I give him for his ballast and shifting this inside is terrific, but then his natural ability to catch the ball on the edge. I think he's someone where the sweet spot for running backs. In my mind, day two, second,

third round, I think he's in that mix. I think he has the ability to potentially be in every down guy because in pass protection he was not afraid to stick his nose in the fan, and that is it's hard to find guys that can get that part of the game. I think he's more than just a change of pace prospect. I love that saying, Bucky, but every time you say it, stick your nose in the fan. It makes me like, just imagine getting my nose hit by a fan, and I don't want to. I'm not

one of those guys. You you would have to take that saying off of my film evaluation. Unfortunately. But when we come back, we've got some crazy Twitter on the twenty just by the way we've got we're getting wild on Twitter on the twenty today. Couldn't the Cowboys somehow come out with three first round picks. We're gonna talk about with some of the craziest draft scenarios you've ever been asked in and also a vertical threat at wide receiver, which one's the best or where is the best place

to get a vertical threat at wide receiver? And then in the third segment, we'll talk about who had their draft stock maybe stay stagnant or drop even a little bit from their time in mobile. Got plenty to come here on the other side of the break. This is

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Switch to a T and T five G. It's not complicated. Five G requires compatible plant may not be in your area. See a TT dot com slash five G for you for details. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show. Second segment here of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, And of course two days a week now throughout the offseason, we've got Bucky Brooks, We've got David Helmett, Brian brought us, and then on Thursday we've got Dame Bugler, Jeff cavan On, Kevin KT Turner leading the way. But well We've got

time now for some Twitter on the twenty. On the twenty here it is from Chris Beam in the back as always, and we do have some crazy scenarios to talk about on Twitter on the twenty. Friends of the show chiming in lots of great questions again as always, I mean really throughout the entirety of the Draft Show. This is episode fifteen already of the Draft Show. Maybe it's I think it's seven for you guys or eight for you guys, but it's fifteen for me, which is

crazy to think about. So Mark Bristow, he says, Friend of the Show, Mark Bristow worked the draft trade chart and came out with three first rounders and a third rounder. So he was trying to do some work to get the Cowboys back up a little bit further in the draft board. Now, I know that's completely unrealistic, and so does everybody think that here, but it's something like that more preferable than the ten picks they have scattered throughout the NFL Draft with the compics that they have to

work with. When you talk about the Dallas Cowboys, David Hellman, I'm not one hundred percent sure I'm following what you're asking? So, like, are we what are we? We're talking about trading up or trading away from the tenth pick. So he wants to keep the tenth pick and then take the ten picks that we have collectively and somehow work away to three first rounders and a third rounder. Does that make sense? Oh? So that's so that's all you have is those four picks, yes,

instead of the ten? What are we? I mean, there's no way those other, like eight or nine picks are gonna be enough to get you two more first round picks. I mean, what are we giving up that gets you that? Yeah, I don't really know what trade he's looking at. I think it would have to be it would have to be future ones. I mean, to get to have three first round picks, you gotta be talking about giving up

future ones or players. Maybe. In general, I'm the first to say, like as far as like I really only truly care about first through fourth round picks, like top one hundred and twenty. Those are the picks that matter. Those are the picks that really, you know, build your roster. Everything else is kind of a crapshoot. So if you can get me more valuable picks. I'm down to get rid of some of those lesser ones. The problem is,

the lesser ones aren't worth that much. So if you want to trade a few of them and maybe get me an extra third or I don't know, maybe an extra second, I'm all for it. But yeah, I mean three first round picks. You got to give up way more than just your other nine. Sure do that. I don't think that's very realistic. Yeah, I think that if you know, if you really want to go up in this draft, I mean, all you really have to do is give up if you want to go to the

five spot. Now, Cincinnati historically is a different team to trade with because when you call Duke Tobin and those guys on the phone, they say, hey, nice to hear from you, Brian, Okay, thanks for calling, and you need to ever hear from them again, you know, three days of the draft. Everybody else you talk to multiple times.

Cincinnati is one of those teams at five. If you were interested in going that high, that would only cost you forty four that the you know, your second round pick, so you know you're thinking about a four hundred point difference right there. Those are the kinds of trades I would think about maybe trying to go up in the first round if you're interested. I mean, you might be in a situation where we need to see what happens

with the quarterback. I know it's a broken record, you know. Really, March ninth, to me is kind of a drop dead day for the Cowboys if we go back on this tag. The last day you can tag a player is on March tenth if they don't have a contract done by March ninth. I am seriously thinking about evaluating quarterbacks. I really am. I don't know if I can. I could go another year and just say, okay, fine, well, you know, we'll play on the tag again, and then you know,

and try and do this all over again. I don't know how you can do business that way, but you know, the Cowboys might think that's necessary to do. But if you're going to go up, you need to go up, and to get in the top five, you want to to potentially get one of these quarterbacks. Can I hijack this for one? Secon Kyle, I want to hijack this? Yes, I mean, I don't know if that's the right term, but that's fine. We all saw. We all saw what happened with the Rams and the Lions trading Matt Stafford

for Jared Goff, and it got me thinking. It got me thinking about some hypotheticals. Bucky or and Brian, both of you. Kyle too sweet, if Miami, if Miami offered you the third overall pick, the eighties overall pick and two ah for Dak, would you do it? I would. Yeah. If we get to March ninth and we don't have him signed, yeah, sure, I'd absolutely think about it. I mean,

I'll see you what. To be honest with you, though, I mean the Rams took the Rams gave up multiple ones or gave up a one just so the Lions would take a bad contract. That's why they gave up. You know, Less snead those guys, I mean less, Less does it. Less trust his pro evaluations of established players more than he does drafting players. Even though he drafted Aaron Donald, you know he that was that was one

of the best picks ever made. But Less trust his pro evaluations of established players more than he does the players they can draft. But they had to kick that one so that Detroit would take that bad contract of golf. So you're not in a situation where you have to do that if you're anybody else. But yeah, you give me an opportunity. I don't have a quarterback signed. You give me three, you give me eighteen, you trade me to a Now we need to know what the Cowboys

think about TOAs medical condition. You know, maybe they didn't like the hip, you know, I mean we need to ask if that would be the case. But yeah, with the third with the third pick, you could absolutely draft a quarterback if you wanted to. You could you could draft any defensive player you wanted to. You could take any offensive lineman you wanted to. Bucky's smiling all right now, Like, I don't know, like, and I know it's weird because I come from the college scouting thing and I should

be in love with picks. Man, give me players over picks all day. I kind of like to know what I have, what I'm getting, And I think, okay, thanks, thanks. I think, I think, I think if i'm if I'm less sneed and those guys, I understand the fascination. I'm not saying that maybe Matthew Stafford is that guy. We'll see, but I do understand it has worked for them when they've made these when they've made these, they don't like drafting, Buckie.

They don't like draft don't players. Well, look, if we're talking about it being a fifty fifty coin flip in terms of a first round pick turning into like not only a legitimate starter, but a star player. If I can get one that, I know Jalen Ramsey's gonna be a shut down corner. I bring him and you put

him into sinstem he plays like that, I'm good. If I can even snatch, Like if I can snatch Brandon Cooks and he can give me the deep thread of building, we end up in the super Bowl because he averaged fifteen yards of catch, I'm okay with that. I think what they've been able to do is they've hit him those mid round guys. But part of the reason why those mid round guys hit is because the stars are so overwhelming, and so they're not putting roles that put

them out of their comfort zone. And so I don't know, like, I think it's great that we well like was behind doing number one, two and three. But yeah, yeah, players, you've said that before, and and I don't disagree with you. The thing about this is, though you're you're in a little bit of a salary cap league, and we're all of a sudden, you know, they've had to eat some dead money on a running back. They're eating dead money

on a quarterback. Now, eventually you wonder, you know, let's need has taken the attitude of if I just get rid of all these picks and it doesn't work and I get fired, this is somebody else's problem. It's not my problem anymore. This is Bucky Brooks coming in and running Bucky. Bucky'll be sitting there like, oh wow, I'm running a team now with no picks. I guess I'm gonna get fired in three years now. Let's players looking

at this very moment. Yeah, let's let's just I mean, I talked the least I talked to last when he was working with you, Fisher. I talked to Less. I go, hey, man, how you hold up. He's like, man, I'm gonna get fired. I'm like, what what do you mean? He goes, oh, you know, he goes, Bruten's gonna come in here. He's gonna blow us all out. I'm like, huh okay. He goes from getting blown out to get like a five

year contract. But you know what. That urgency Bright, that urgency has enabled him to keep his job because I've never seen a guy. I've never seen a guy more scared. I've never seen a guy more scared and taking first round picks than him. It's amazing. I mean that tackle he took from Albert back in the day, that a kid third overall whatever might have just scared him so bad that he can't Oh, I don't want to draft it.

Yeah about the third quarterback? How about the quarterback that he just begged the Lions to take off his hands too? The number one overall pick. Yeah, I will say this, I love I still get me wrong. They have They have dumped on Jerry Goff like in a major, major way. And I will say that Sean McVeigh has a lot of John rooting to them where they fall in and

out of love really really quickly. And I just wonder, like people have caught up to the scheme, and I just wonder when he looks around, he's like, hey man, the X and no's aren't popping like they used to. I gotta swap out people. But at some point you're gonna look at the coach and we're like, well, maybe it's maybe it's not the people, maybe it's the coach. Yeah, and then again you want to go coach there again, but you have no first round picks. I mean, hey, okay, fine,

that's great. But like I said, hey, this this this whole thing with the Cowboys. Seriously, I would look, if you're a Cowboy fan and you're listening to this show, March ninth is a day you need to circle on your calendar. Brian, I am obviously right there with you, because I mean, I have a sticky note on my laptop for everybody watching. I don't know if you can watch this, you're not gonna see it. I gotta sticky

note to the dates. Hold it to your left. Yeah, well it's it's you can't see it right now, but everybody at home can. But I've got a date now and and all of it's the all of the offseason dates, all the way down to the NFL Draft, And the only one I have in a box, it's the Franchise in Transition tag period deadline, because I think that's the

most important date in the DAK contract era. And Dave, you asked this question earlier, and I'm gonna look like a little bit of a hypocrite here because I sat on Talking Cowboys yesterday morning and said, it's so hard to find a franchise quarterback that you'd have to put together a pretty sweet package in order to do so. And we were talking about Deshaun Watson in the case.

But if you told me that I had the third overall pick, the tenth overall pick, the eighteenth overall pick, and two a Tunga Vloa, I think I would do it because that, I mean, you're giving me Pina soul Patrick's ertan Christian Barmore and a young quarterback on a rookie deal that I could go and try and find some other pieces to go around. Oh my gosh, I

would be all for that. But I've also I mean, I'm a draft at the same time, I think you have to still consider drafting a quarterback with that third overall pick, if even with two just that's just yeah, absolutely, I mean it's early, but I wasn't blown away by what I saw from two over the second half of last season. But I'm with you though I'm I'm the king of the keep Dak bandwagon. I want Dak on this team. I agree, But you're falling off the bandwagon. No,

that's just a hell treguing, Brian. You're Brian. You are the king of like, investigating, educating. You gotta consider all angles. And if you're telling me that's the package, if you're giving me two first round picks and a young quarterback on a rookie deal, that's really hard to I'm just saying. I'm just saying. If you're a Cowboy fan, yeah, you you probably don't want Dak to be traded. You want Dak to be signed, you do, you do want him to get signed, but they have messed this thing up

for two years. Yeah, well now was so messed up that what's going to happen is like when you signed him, you can sign him to a major deal. That is like, I don't know, almost a one hundred per send more than what could have got him done three years ago if you'd just been proactive. And when you can't add pieces around them, everyone's gonna blame the quarterback. And so just because I mean, I can't really understand why it went like the other guys get their money before the

quarterback because most of them don't operate like that. But now you're in a situation. I do wonder, given what we know about teams playing with quarterbacks on rookie deals, who is going to be the bull general manager that treats the NFL game like college, where you recruit those guys. You're there, you're on their station right now. Yeah, because this general manager doesn't have to worry about paying for his lake house. The rest of us that we're doing this,

and you're like, man, I'm gonna lose my job. I'm gonna lose my job if I make this move. A team that has a general manager that's not going to get fired New England, Dallas, they're going to They're gonna be the first team to say, no, we're not gonna pay somebody forty million dollars because it's gonna keep turning this thing over. Because because Marian, depending on who your coach, like,

just think about it. Like it's almost like the way when I was in Caroline, the way we treat a running backs draft one high right them to the wheels fall off in year four, draft another one because year five we're letting the guy go with quarterbacks. If you have a quarterback friendly system, like say the Shanahan system, that makes everybody look like a really good quarterback if you're just plugging and playing, and then I'm guaranteed to

get all the stars around them. Like I'm waiting for someone to say, like, hey, I'll do I'll take this different approach. Yeah. This is why when we keep talking about drafting offensive linemen for the Cowboys, every be goes, oh, they need defensive help. I'm thinking, nah, because you might have a new quarterback. You know, you might have to you know, you've got all these weapons at receivers, you

got two quality tied ends it look like. But man, your offensive line, that might be the lifeblood to keep things going. You know. Yeah, yeah, you need defensive help. But a defensive help is not as good as the offensive line that you're gonna look at it right now. I don't I don't know, but Brian Dallas could be the first team. Yeah. If the Cowboys offensive line was healthy this year, I think they have three more wins. I really do. I think they have three more wins.

In the middle of that, if the Cowboys have it, and then you get in, you're indivision. If Dak doesn't get hurt, well, yeah, okay, that's fair. I didn't even throw Dak's injury in there, but I'm saying I mean, like healthy offensive line is important. Yeah, healthy offensive line would have given them an opportunity to really win more game. Sure, yeah, even with the Dak injury. I could talk about this

all day, I really could. I think this is a fantastic conversation I'm learning just from listening to you guys. And then plus I mean as somebody who's heavily invested in the Cowboys even as a fan growing up, I mean this is this is conversations you don't necessarily want to hear, but you have to have these conversations in an NFL front office. You have to have that mentality of looking at your options and true and look around.

I never, I never thought I would hear David Helman punt on deck Press like, look, hey, hey, hey, that clause and the easter bunny don't exists. They do need to pay my teeth under the pillow because the tooth fairy doesn't. David Helman is punting on him deck Press. Let Kyle is absolutely right, just like you, you have to you have to have every conversation, You have to

consider every angle. You got to if not loved my favorite thing about the Draft show is dragging you guys in the UK with I have nobody to blame for this but myself. You're the one that Hicky buck He's trying to be strong. Ye, Bucky's trying to be strong. Dave, he folded like a NA. That's Brian, You're such You're such a liar, Bro, You're such a liar. You're the You're the trade king. You want to trade everybody. He's gonna get off this broadcast. He's gonna go, good, what

did I do? St oh man? But I love how like Brian's even the one that was like, yeah, after a certain date, let's do it, let's figure this thing out. But then if then he just he just tagonized. Davis tried to trade. Yeah, Bryan's tried to trade every good player on this team at some point in the last like five years. I mean, do you blame him? Signed?

I don't blame him. I gotta get just numbers, just numbers on jerseys days, right, don't buy a jersey with the name on the back, holding the stand jersey no name on the back? Oh man, all right, I do want to ask one more question, because we've only asked one question on Twitter on the twenty But that was so fun. That's so fun. That's fair. Uh. David Leach

and Jay I'm gonna actually combine their questions here. They both asked about a vertical threat at wide receiver, saying that the Cowboys could definitely use one, maybe a Tyreek Kill type of player, not Tyreek Kill comp or anything, but somebody that's kind of a later pick in the draft that could turn out to be a burner at

wide receiver. Anybody stick out to you, Bucky in terms of some of those burners at wide receiver, and somebody that the Cowboys might potentially be interested in putting in this offense. You know, it's hard because they have so much firepower already. But here's what I would say, And I don't want to hijack the conversation, but I do have a strong belief coming from the Green Bay. I don't know if you ever need to really go heavy at wide receiver. Like there's so many guys that you

find in later rounds. Tyreek Hill was a fifth round pick. Some of that was due to the character concerns. I

think it's just a matter of scouting your room. Do you have a great teacher at wide receiver, at the wide receiver coach position, and can they developed because I think those Burners, those guys that stressed to feel I don't know if you really need to invest significant money in that position or significant draft capital in the Sorry, Bucky, Yeah, you know, I'm I'm with yeah, No, I'm you know, Bucky. You know he and I grew up in the same system.

And you know the thing with the wide receivers, I'm really happy they got set Lamb. I think they're gonna I don't think they're gonna be able to keep Michael Gallop. He's probably gonna have to you know, you're probably gonna move on. Maybe he's a guy that you know, if you if you feel like that you are going to pick a wide receiver, you have one in mind that you want to take. Maybe you maybe take that opportunity to get something from Michael Gallop if you can right now,

and then drafts replacement. I without really knowing times, but you know, if you look at some of these receivers, and the kid that kind of stood out was at the Senior Bowl was the Amory Rogers kid from Climson. Yeah, and you know, and I was thinking, like, Okay, what is he? Is he at five night? I mean, he's a good I mean he's a shorter guy, but he's thick, and I've kind of watching him. But I watched Clemson tape and I'm watching him make plays down the field.

I'm watching him make plays underneath. I'm watching him. Do you know all these things? Sure you can, you can go out and you know, and maybe even if you're talking about I don't know, is he a second round guy? Is he a third round guy? You know I'm trying to later in the draft. I mean, yeah, that's that's a crapshoot. You know, when you start talking about those, maybe you're just drapped in traits. I haven't seen anybody got to the point where it's been laid enough where

I say, oh wow, this kid really runs well. But he's inconsistent. I can that. The guy that kind of caught my eye was was was Rogers at the Senior Bowl. But watching Rogers on Clemson tape this year, I thought he would had a pretty a pretty good campaign. Michael, A little bit earlier than what we're talking about right now. For what we're looking for, I would just um, I mean if you're I mean, since we're talking about the Senior Bowl, you got to mention Dwayne Esker and he

was another. I mean, you talk about guys that raised their stock, the Western Michigan wide out, polished, just beat up on a lot of guys last week. Seems like a really great route runner. I don't know if he's like Tyreek Hill fast, but how many people really are? And I mean, if you want to talk about short guys that are really fast, Rondel Moore come to mind as well. Um Tony from Florida two another. Yeah, so yeah, those those guys definitely exist. I mean I'm always down

to take a flyer on a guy. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't want to spend a huge resource on a receiver this year unless you're telling me we're trading Michael Gallup. Um. But yeah, I mean if you could get one of those guys in the fourth round or later on, that's fine with me. Can I get you guys to get on the Dimitric Felton go for it? Bucky Dimitric Field from UCLA pass, Yeah, because he's like I mean, he's a running back between he's gonna play, They're gonna played.

Wide receiver, right, Yeah, But I think like if you're talking about Dallas and specific Mike McCarthy, he has that Ramba Cobb type of stuff to him. So if you're

thinking about that, I don't know. Yeah, Like in terms of vertical threat, it's hard because like this dis draft is different because you have a bunch of guys that can play, but I don't know, like two to at Will from Louisville can take the top off it, but he's a little and I just don't know what are the considerations when it comes to thin receivers because I'm not really a big fan of the skinny news on the outside. That's that's hard for me. I think that's

kind of what the questions asking is. They kind of want those smaller burner type of receivers that you could get late in the draft, And like Dave said, I don't think the Cowboys are going to spend any kind of valuable draft capital on a wide receiver this year. That's why I want all all of us to get on the the Jalen Garden bandwagon. If I mean, please

come aboard for the Jalen Garden to Dallas bandwagon. I'm gonna tweet that probably every day for the rest of the draft process, but I want that to happen so badly. It's funny. It's funny all those all those shorter wide receivers were talking about are kind of looked together though as far as ability goes, Like you say, the Produe kid, the Florida kid, you know, because they're all kind of the same realm, I mean with the with ability and

stuff like that, and they're all short. So you know, well, you know, how does that all kids sorted out by the clubs? As we go forward? It is gonna be interesting started with the shorter guys. I know it's harder with the shorter guys. And I know I missed you guys DeVante Smith conversation because I'm fascinated about where he gets picked because it kind of goes against everything that I've learned a lot. Oh, you don't like that, you

talked about that. You don't like that hund seventy pound body, huh not in the top ten where he's been talking to them. Yeah, I don't like that take. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think he's I don't think he's fast like that either, Like I don't think he's I don't think he's four three ish. Do you think you think he runs like four or five four or five two four or five one? I think yeah, I think he's four five two. If he runs, he may run.

You like wattle. You like wattle better than you more bursts. I don't think. I think a lot of people are going to feel that way. Yeah, like once people start, once people start weighing in, and everybody's so little. Hey, hey, I just remember I was influenced by Remember, yeah, like remember how bad Remember how bad Tom Brady's combine picture? Look, just think about that trick about how narrow and Thinny looked. Tom Brady didn't play wide receivers. Smith is gonna look

the same. He's gonna look the exact same, Brian, Like, we haven't seen many guys like that that have come into the league and dominated. And those who had well, Marvin Harrison, Marvin Harrison, Marvin Harrison was built, Like how many drafts have we had And that's the only name we can bring up, though I brought up a Hall of Famer man, what else? Why we've been like the league Merson was sixty seven, sixty eight and we got one guy that we talk about, Marvin Harrison. Yeah, like

and I would say Buck Bucky. Feel free. Feel free when all the media you're doing and someone goes, well, who does Smith remind you of? And you'll go, you know guys, I mean like I guess, but like not really he's a strider. I don't really know who he compares to Sean Jackson because he's not fast like Deshan Jackson. Jacks can fly. Yeah. I know this is dangerous and we always tell people not to do it, like you know where you went to? Why are you doing it?

Because because I feel very confident betting on an Alabama stud receiver. That's what I That's why. Because they they just clang out badass after badass. Here's helmet. You hear the scouting helmet. Okay, butt to a degree, that's true. But if you are good enough to be the top dog at that school, with who they practice against, who they recruit, and who they play, I'm comfortable betting that you're gonna be pretty damn good. Yeah. I think I may take a what do y'all eat down there at

water Burger? I think I may take a water Burger? Bet on that? All right? We're talking about Dave. Dave. He's gonna try to push Dady. He's gonna try pushing in and out on You don't do it in it. Oh my god, you guys just I don't need trash. You don't have the tallet. You don't have the tallet. Oh my gosh. Is different. Oh we gotta get here. Gosh. He puts it on lettuces in the boat. It's one of the paper boats. Oh my gosh. Okay, we're gonna take a break on that note. Water Burger are presenting

sponsor for a lot of things around the Star. We're sorry that this came out on our show, but we are. We are water Burger through and through, no doubt about it. But when we come back, some guys who saw their saw their draft stock drop a little bit, and man, Bucky, I might have to send you some Miller Lite too, because if you talk about California beer, it's not gonna work the same way. It's not gonna work. But we're gonna be right back on the other side of the

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dot com Draft Show. Back here on the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show, presented by Miller Litte as always, and well, we're going into the final segment here, and we've got a lot to talk about of the draft, but I just really quickly want to talk about my excitement and the fact that the NC DOUBLEA football video games are coming back from me A Sports. I am pumped about that, and talk about college football and NFL Draft.

I love Madden and all of that stuff. And so if you're an NFL or NC double A fan and a gamer at the same time, this is a day to be rejoicing, but really quickly, guys. I mean we've got about five minutes before we're overtime. I know we're gonna go over. Sorry Chris, but Brian, any guys that stuck out at the Senior Bowl that did not necessarily help their drafts dot just from their performance down at the down in Mobile. Yeah, you know, I'm really looking

forward to getting the tape. But you know, if you watch some of the one on one stuff, you know, from the practices and stuff. I was really interested because last week I talked about Alex Leatherwood from Alabama, and I was kind of thinking, like, could he elevate himself to where he would be in that conversation with those those tough guys, those top guys. And you know, if you watch the practices, there were some losses of one

on one and that's not Alex Leatherwood's game. I mean, he's a guy that generally has a nice set, keeps his head out of his block, you know, doesn't get over extended, can get to the outside, can show some range and stuff like that. But I was a little worried about him and some of the things I saw. I didn't feel like he anchored down like he did on Alabama tape. Again, this is one on one stuff. Need to watch the tape of the game to kind of get a little bit better picture. But I was hopeful.

I was thinking, Man, he's going to go and just blow this thing out of the park. He's going to be right up there with all those other guys that were talking about and I think it was a little bit of a little bit of an eye opener for some scouts watching him practice. We'll see how the game tape looked. Yeah, you talk about Leatherwood, I would go the quarterback position. Outside of Mac Jones, everyone was kind

of up and down. I think Kellen Man was probably the best of the crew outside of Mac Jones because he won MVP. But Jamie Newman was one that I felt like really hurt himself didn't play this year after transferring to Georgia. There was a lot of excitement and intrigue about him when he was playing it Way Forest because there was a dual threat. He had size. He

just layed the athleticism. But then when you watched him at the Senior Bowl, maybe he was rusted because he had a year off a lot of interceptions and just didn't have the timing that you want to see from the quarterback. I don't know if it I don't I mean, I don't know if it's going to affect his draft stock, But I was bummed for Mac Jones that he had that ankle problem that kept him from doing as much

and just speak. I mean, you're talking probably a first round pick anyway, but if you come out and light the world on fire, then you've really set yourself up to potentially go in the top half of the first round. So, like I said, with the season that he had, I don't think having a limited Senior Bowl is going to stop that from happening. But if he had gone out and really had a great week, then you know, he would have been the talk of the draft cycle for

at least a couple of weeks. Does anybody have him over Trey Lance? You think? I don't think so. I would probably need to watch Trey Lance a little bit more to have a great answer to that. But Bucky you feel that way, maybe maybe some people might have Mac Jones over him. I don't know. I think I think what Mac Jones is gonna do is Mac Jones is gonna win the interview his intangibles, he worked hard

or whatever. I think the hard thing with Mac Jones and others will be separating his production from his supporting casts, because I mean, you hate all you hate all the Alabama wide receivers, so you have he SI, we're gonna do that. Hey, We're gonna do this again. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I don't think that one hundred and sixty five pound wide house can come in the league and dominate them. I don't know if we have a history of that in the league. We'll see, Like

I just play the odds. I mean, I heard that played Marvin Harrison. I was pretty good. I've heard that a couple times. Can I get another one? Can I get another one? Can scout? As a scout you were taught. If you saw it one time, you get to see it all the time, right, Hey, I real quick, I'll just say, and I mean, I haven't studied Trey Lance in in depth, but I've seen enough of them to know, uh,

the armed talent and the athleticism. I'll take my chances on that, and it might it might blow up in my face, but I'm I'm especially and this sucks because I'm so influenced by Patrick Mahomes, you know, Like, I didn't know what to think about Patrick Mahomes in twenty seventeen, and obviously he's amazing. And if there's even a chance that you have a like, if there's even a chance that you can draft a guy that turns into something like that, I just I gotta do it. That's why

I'm likeson right. I love with Zach Wilson, absolutely, I'm in love with Zack Wilson. And Trey Lance is the same thing where I'm like this guy. This guy can score from twenty five yards out on his feet and he can throw it over the day moon. So I'll take my chances even if it doesn't work out. Yeah,

I think I think there's something to it. I think as much as we talk about the Pat Mahomes thing, I think we've been influenced by three quarterbacks in the last five years, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson. Because in the past, all those guys we spend all the time talking about what they can do, and each of those guys at a level of success in the league where you're like, well, yeah, those those whole thoughts

have to do it. And I think now we have to grate the talent and then try and find the fit. The talent is this thing, okay, well where can we fit him and who can teach him how to develop some skills? Right? Well, I did want to say, so I know, I know we're gonna go over, but um, I never stop. I think he I think he rebounded. But you know, Bucky was talking about Carlos Basham having a great week. It seemed like a lot of that

came at the expense of Trey Smith, the Tennessee guard. Yeah, which, and I know he's he's a pretty well known name. You know, he he overcame some serious health issues during his college career. Um, you know, he seems like a really high character guy. He was actually he was at the Star last year for the Jason Witton Character Award, got a chance to spend some time around him. So it seems like a really good guy. And and it's like I said, I think he he rebounded to have

some nice practices. But that's that's one of the you know, higher tier guards that seemed like he had some rough reps down in Mobile for sure. It's a good recall that David Hellman. I forgot about him coming to the Star for the Jason Witten thing last year. That's got's good. Hey, how about that? That's the kind of insight that David Hellman provides you on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show as always. But that's gonna do it for us this week, or at least this Tuesday. This group will

be back next Tuesday, ten am. Be sure to join Dane Brugler, Jeff Kavanaugh, Kevin Turner on Thursday, same time, same place, right here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. But for Chris be for Bucky Brooks, Brian brought us, and David Helmant. I'm Kyle Heelman saying so long, thanks for joining us this week on the Draft Show presented by Miller Lite. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.