Draft Show: Taking Chances

Z is the Dallascowboys dot Com Draft Show, your war room for insider news and draft analysis from deep within the confines of Cowboys Headquarters at the Star Infrasco.

Today is Thursday, February first, twenty twenty four, and we are eighty four days away from the NFL Draft in Detroit, Michigan. Welcome in to the Draft Show presented by Miller Lyte Taste.

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Investigate and educate here on a big week for the NFL Draft process. Senior Bowl practices conclude today, the actual game on Saturday. Shrine Bowl practices are in the review mirror in the actual game. The Shrine Bowl takes place tonight at seven o'clock Central Time inside Fort Center at the Star in Firstco. We've got Zach Walchuk, Nick Harris, Iusha Morris, and Brian brought us on. Kyle Yeoman's how's everybody doing? Nick, you had an early flight this morning, got back in in time.

Yeah.

Me and Scott Purcell from a little down the way. We made our way in from Mobile this morning, five twenty five am. Flight Ready to rock.

Let's get it.

That's the type of draft process, dedication.

Yeah, that I admire.

We were all very jealous and you're getting to be at those practices and get to get a close and personal look at some of these guys. Man, I'm sure it was a blast out there and Mobile, but we appreciate your dedication, hard work to be here right now.

Yeah.

Yeah, me too, Me too, Zech No, it was great. It was my first time out there for the Senior Bowl. I had been to Mobile many times in my previous job for different events, but going for that event, I mean, that's something that the town really comes out for. It's a it's really special whenever you're out on the town at night. I mean you see scouts everywhere, you see media personnel everywhere. It's a really it's a really interesting event. I mean the town turns into like a mini NFL

So it's gonna be fun, man.

And you're talking about Mobile turning into a mini NFL town.

Just wait to experience the combine. It would be so fun. It's the best.

With that being said, I mean there's a lot that happened, Like you said, ups and downs of the Senior Bowl Week, and you're gonna have a lot of that as the draft process goes on. But who was the best that you got your eyes on all week long? Is the number one guy? We'll talk deeper depths, but I want to know who was there the best. Nick Harris's MVP of Senior Bowl Week.

I guess you got to go with Jackson Powers Johnson. I mean, if I'm looking at one guy who consistently performed on both days, you know, if you had asked me after Day one, it would have been Tyler Guiding out of Oklahoma, But then he didn't have as strong of a Day two, lost some reps. I could also throw in Darius Robinson out of Missouri, talk about as rusher. Yeah, I think he's gonna be a first round guy.

First round guy. So he made himself some money.

He was really fun at Missouri, like his tape is fun, but it was just like what are you getting out of the shurt?

So seeing him against different competition was really nice.

Yeah, I'm stamping him right now. I'm putting that first round stock on him. I really like what I saw from him. But I want to talk about Jackson Powers. Johnson both days performed well, lining up at left guard, center, right guard. I mean he played everywhere in the interior, really good anchor, really good bass. I loved what I saw from him. He kind of tweaked his hamstring towards the end of practice yesterday. I'm curious. We're got the Senior Bowl here on in the TV, here in the studio.

I'm a little surprised that you didn't say anything about Liatu Latu.

Oh wait, Layatu la.

Well, you asked me for one guy, and I kind of give you two.

But I know, but none of them were a.

Lots Yeah, you were very impressed with him.

Yeah, I'll touch on Laotsu Latsu.

Probably one of the more craftier past rushers I've ever seen at this level, at this stage of his career. When you when you combo what he can do with his hands, what he can do with his athleticism, I mean, he's he's really talented. He was lining up against some of the stronger tackles in the class, or the stronger tackles that were Aaron mobile. He was able to get around them on a consistent basis. I mean he was

He got this whole thing we saw.

Thirty five minutes on like a drive home, and it probably could have gone for an hour and thirty.

Yeah, and you almost gotten like two rex on the way it was.

I was yelling at other cars. It was so bad.

I'd be like, you know a Christian who's and he'd be like, oh, my exploitive, exploitive.

But anyway, I don't say expove. Don't say that.

You said explotive the word you know, because you don't cuss. But anyway, there was one play that stuck out to me about Lats. It was a play where they were in team drills, so eleven on eleven, Michael Pennix was the quarterback and LAT two had him confuse from snap to finish.

So what law Too did was he dropped back in coverage.

And when he dropped back and coverage, Penis did not really expect that because he was trying to hit a crosser over the middle. It kind of confused the passing lane right there. For for Penix what lots he was able to do, So he was like, Okay, let me roll out and try to follow this crosser and kind of get around lat too, because he's not going to follow me.

He's a defensive lineman.

He followed him step for step and then he just kind of picked up that crosser and became like a coverage linebacker in a way, in a sense right there. And then Pinnix threw it out of bounds. He threw it out of bounds in a practice setting, and it was just like, Okay, yeah, a lot too. He's smart, he got him, he's he's he's violent whenever he wants to rush the pass or he's really good, but whenever he needs to turn on those instincts, he's even better. And I really like what I saw from Law two.

I love what you're saying is awesome.

Those are the kind of differences you're looking at with some of these edge rushers. One, I mean, for his size, the unique athleticism he has, but his bend, but he's got an arsenal a pass rushman. He's not just like a one single tool on the tool belt kind of guy. That's why him and a guy like Chop Robinson from Penn State.

Those are the two dudes. They kind of stand out to me.

They're rare with their speed, they're timing off the edge, their ability to bend, their quick twitchiness. But also they've got a multitude of different ways to beat you, along with having quick and violent hands. But I mean the ability to drop off in coverage. I mean, I don't think alat two is a guy that you want to see do that a ton, but with his size and his length, he can cause issues.

And something else about Law two too. I mean I was kind of looking him up and down. He can add twenty twenty five pounds to his frame, and I wonder if he can retain that same athleticism. I think he could. I mean his legs are still kind of lanky. He's got room to grow in his arms as well. I mean, once he gets in an NFL weight type program, he can really develop into a very scary defensive way.

Yeah, he's gonna can be.

He can be a terrifying presidence off the edge. It's just tough because he's got you know, his previous stop. Washington's like, look, dude, you're you're not playing football anymore. Then he goes to UCLA and continues to play. So those are two guys. I know another name that I've just been seeing and I'm sure you can highlight on him, and we've talked about him on the Draft show. A lot of these guys really popped that we've talked about to make us look good. But Peyton Wilson from Encie State,

Yeah, that's gonna be a question. I think medicals coming out of combine. We've talked about that with Peyton Wilson. That's gonna be the big question. And every franchise is gonna feel different about that, right So, you know, like you said, one team, Nah, we're good. Other team, Hey, let's check on those medicals on Wilson at combine. Let's kind of see from my perspective, he does not move like a guy that has had knee surgery, shoulder surgeries.

That kind of leader on day one. Peyton Wilson's your guy.

That's exactly what we were talking about last week while you were out there. I wonder if you heard anything similar about Cedric Gray because he's another dude to me

Well, yeah, Cedric, if I'm not mistaken, he said he's a will and so I guess like pairing them together was cool to see also too. But when you talk about Peyton Wilson, Doug like we talk about true Mike linebacker, he's big, Doug. I was just so impressed with the you mentioned the speed. It transfers so well all over

Yeah, with the thing with Wilson, that's interesting. It reminds me so much. And here we have a Trotter and a draft and in nineteen ninety eight we had to make a determination of Jeremiah Trotter Senior and his knee, you know, and where's the value of the player, you know, where's the value of the risk in the reward. Where's the doctor? And you know, the Cowboys have one of the best doctors in Dan Cooper in the country that could tell you, Like, but you know, I just remember

We've you know, and the Cowboys.

Don't have a great history with linebackers that have been hurt. Correct me if I'm wrong. I mean there's some guys that have been tremendous players in this organization that have come in with medical conditions and it hasn't It's ended for them way before it should have ended.

Even recent history. Yeah, like very recent history. Yeah, absolutely happened like that, no doubt.

Yeah.

And the and the sad thing about it is Overstown now becomes a guy who has a medical condition for.

You you know, and so you know that's that's the thing.

And you know they gambled on Layton Van der Esh and it it you know, he he had a nice career, but it it could have been so much more if maybe he wasn't dealing with so much before he been got here.

Yeah, they might be out of that I personally, I mean as far as the Cowboys and drafting linebackers that have had health issues, I feel like at this point you've seen it multiple times, Jalen Smith. You've also seen it with Leyden Vandersch and then now you've seen it with who's the third guy, Clark who had the injury as well that you.

Called, Yeah, you caught it.

I don't want to dig a grave for the moone Clark playing out a position and he played a ton of snaps issue and he was healthy.

Through it all.

But he surprised me he played last year.

Yes, that's that was a shock in its own right.

Yeah.

I'm not absolutely not digging on him, especially with him playing out a position. But I will say that with this club, you you look at the track worker, maybe they are a little bit more hesitant with that player is just.

Him.

But make Pro Bowl somewhere else I'm gonna throw up, I mean Washington.

Well, No, it always reminds me the story again of doctor Mackenzie and Green Bay and him failing. Larry Allen, you know, and our general manager would walk up to doctor Mackenzie and goes, see that number seventy three. He's gonna kick our ass today. That's the guy you failed on the physical right.

Yeah.

So but yeah, that you know, we'll see those physicals. But the thing about Wilson, the ball goes towards him too, by the way, And I don't mean the I mean I mean it gets knocked in the air and he's there.

It gets thrown on the ground, he's there. He's one of these guys that.

Has that type of ability, that instinct right place, right time, being able to finish.

Man.

You would have you would have you would have done anything to have one of those guys playing for you this year.

You know, as you went through the season.

You have to have a guy with instincts. I think they're drafting a linebacker. It has to be a smart one in that second level. And that's what really stood out to me whenever I had those conversations about Wilson with the coaching staff American and and they were they were very complimentary of what he brings to to that to that area of the field and you can see that in team drills as well. I mean he's not miss he's not missreading gaps, his gap disciplines wrong. I

One of the best players I've ever scouted in my life was a guy named Luke Keighley.

And Luke, Yeah, Luke Keighley was pretty good.

This is this is wild because Peyton Wilson told me yesterday Luke is his guy.

Like, that's who you watched.

You watch that.

You watch Boston College tape when Luke Keighley played, and he made every single tackle. He was around every single ball. He was he was always in the mix.

And you talk about the instincts, that's the something.

And you're really good with scheme.

You like when you when you evaluate always let's follow you because I like what you talk about with scheme. One of the things that these cowboy linebackers I think lacked a little of was the instinct you know it was it was I just talked about don't guess, don't end up in, don't be in c gap and you need to be an a gap.

Don't be that guy.

When you don't have instinct you guess you you hope, you know those things. Those are bad things to have. And they need thinctual linebackers and the instincts aren't coaching.

I mean, that's something that you have, you have, It's an innate feeling of the game.

There, he certainly has it.

There's a couple of these linebackers that we've talked about that do and that's something they certainly are lacking.

Well, they missed it with Layton vander Resh.

Layton vander Resh was that instinct and heady and film study.

He had all of those elements.

And then when that went away, and even there were times in his career where he was looking like it wasn't there from a physicality standpoint, even in the back hap before he got hurt.

He can see it.

He can see it, but he just couldn't get there. My apology is that completely.

My apologies for being late.

But if we are we talking about linebackers, Mighty brought up Coulson.

From Mission to bring him up. We talked a little bit about him yesterday on our show. I know, do you want to I mean, Colston's a big boy.

This is this Now we're talking size.

So yeah, since you're bringing up linebackers again, I'm sorry a little bit show well, no, but the size. I'm just talking about the size of the guy. Six three two forty seven, you know. And this guy, I mean, he he played with basically a club left hand the last three or four weeks of the.

Season and it didn't affect him at all.

But if you're looking for a big, powerful, thick lower body guy that can pack a punch, physical downhill player, take a peek at Junior Colson the linebacker. And I know, we say Michigan and people lose their damn mind. If you're a Cowboy fan, if you're a fan of another team, take a look at Junior Coulson from from Michigan. If they're looking for a physical inside linebacker, Atlanta fans go ahead and check out. Yeah this dock Lear fans, Dolphin fans, Yeah, yeah.

You mentioned the club.

When you watch him the National Championship game against Washington, he's cleaning up and.

Making every single that's crazy.

And he can cover. Yeah, and he can cover. So I mean, that's a great name. Have you guys watched.

We mentioned line.

When in here through this thing on its head. I love what you did. You mentioned linebackers with instincts. Here's a guy that I think looks the part, has all the physical tools.

That you want.

I think he lacks that and that's what holds him back a little bit. And it's Curtis Jacobs, the linebacker from Penn State six one, two thirty five. Curtis Jacobs was watching him and I'm like, man, there's a lot to like here. He can drop off in coverage. He's got a really good motor. I mean the athletic skills. He's twitchy, he can go sideline to sideline. But sometimes I just think he finds himself. He's alert where he's in the right position to fall on fumble recoveries.

And he's got a good punch. He's got that peanut tillman punch knock the ball out.

But there's also times where you're seeing him kind of take the wrong angles. He's jumping in the wrong gap, he's kind of getting himself run out of.

Yeah, he's interesting players.

I think there's a lot to like there, and I think a linebacker coach is looking to be like man, I can do something with that size and athleticism. But you talk about the instinct thing that's a player. When you compare him with like a Peyton Wilson, or a Cedric Ray, or a Trotter, some of Colston, some of these other guys, that's what to me, I would drop him compared to those other guys.

Yeah, you talk about Curtis Jacob Shriebol guy, I kind of see where you're coming from.

And you look at his frame too.

I think if you're going to get a linebacker the Cowboys specifically, you got to get one that has size. There can't be any size questions. And for me, the guy that kind of stuck out to me from the Shrine Bowl group was Darius Muissau out of U. C.

L A.

That was the guy that stood out for me. You talk about instincts, I mean that guy has it. He had a red zone interception.

Covers, he could cover his zone awareness. Yes, I want to see him real little oppressive.

Yeah.

Whenever I went and what looked at his tape after he was impressed in Trine Bowl practice. He doesn't hit, he's very He's a wrap up heavy guy. He's not a powerful guy.

Nice coverage.

I like him in coverage.

I like him whenever he's going sideline, the sideline and patrolling. I want to see him come downhill and put some physicality.

My question for you then would be from a Cowboys perspective, do you want a guy who's better in coverage? Do you want that guy that can come down and really be physical and those because you could flip the moan Clark if you have that guy that can be that.

But that's a question which I think is what they need to do.

And he brought this up the other day with the roquewand Smith Patrick Queen development and we're talking about other teams. I think that would help the mon Clark a lot, having a guy like because this dude cleans up man. I mean, he's a guy that he's filling gas. And his ability to shed I mean, you guys talked to me about this. Then I went and watched him the other night, and I'll love watching this player. I mean his ability to get off Blass's uncanny.

Yeah.

And I mean when you mentioned switching demon Clark back to his regular position, I noticed towards the end of the year, even so Dan was starting to play him a little closer to the line of scrimmage, and you could see he was a little bit more decisive and was slashing and.

Was a little bit more physical.

I think you got a little glimpse of what he could be if he's not being asked to be you know that that middle line that I want to see him be able to be a little bit more free and play off of somebody. I think that'll make a difference as well.

That's got to be a goal this offseason for this defense, right is to push him back into his natural position.

He deserves that.

I think he does.

I think he deserves the opportunity to play.

I mean, I think a lot of people obviously are like, I'm over this player, whatever.

The case may be.

But when guys are playing out of position, I don't know about any other position but linebacker, it changes everything philosophy wise for you and so for me. I'm hoping that he is able to give back to his original position so we can see him thrive, because I do think this this guy still has the capability to be a good player.

You think you think back to the one game that he had this past year where he was super comfortable playing in position having a good time doing it. The Jacksonville preseason game when he had like nine tackles in the first half and then the second half, they're like, all right, you're a good guy.

Take a jersey.

It was him and to Marvin Overshot on the field to get you before he got hurt.

So it's still be a tandem.

Thing, dog like it's it's I mean, we we've talked about it is like the linebackers in this in the NFL that are thriving right now.

There are tandems you need.

You need to be able to play off someone and and and again we've talked about Marquis Bell and how well he's played and everything he's done, but he's still not a linebacker.

He's still and that matters. He's happy, it's so happy to be back at safety.

So there's nobody more happy for him. There's no be more happy to be the season over. Well, I shouldn't say it, because nobody wants the season to be over. But he's probably thinking, they asked me to do something that he has to be proud that he did something did not many people think he could have done play linebacker for thirteen weeks or so as an undrafted guy out of it.

It's probably gonna make him.

Yeah, he's definitely seeing this and getting that experience I think is gonna help him when he goes.

Back to safety.

Well, and he'll have a different defensive coordinator to to term.

Wait what Yeah, let's talk about it a second.

When we come back, it's time for Twitter on the twenty and we're gonna answer some dan quinn questions. How does this affect the draft? How does this affect the defense? What are the dominoes that are gonna fall from here? When we come back with more of the draft show right after this.

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All Right, it's time now Chris Beam for some twitter on Glad's fact always always fun. All right, first question has to deal with dan Quinn. Jeffrey says, what's the next domino to fall?

For dan Quinn? As the reports came out this morning that Washington.

Is hiring the Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator as their head coach.

Our reports, we haven't a Is it official official?

Quinn?

Yeah, it's pretty official official. Yeah, but where does the next domino fall? Jeffrey asks, what do you think.

The defensive staff?

I mean, that's that's where that's where you look at. Right, You look at Al Harris, who has said before that he doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter if dan Quinn's coaching in Alaska, he would go follow him. So you look at that, You look at Joe Witt. If Joe Witt is not you know, uh elevated to d c here in Dallas. You would kind of look at him to leave. You look at Aid and Dirty as well, and then you look at Sharif Floyd, who's also on

Trayvon Diggs has already put out the campaign for Al Harris his position coach. Oh wow, Trade Montas put it out there on X he said, Al Harris for DC. So that's so he you know that that's who he's campaigning for. And I'm a big Al Harris guy.

Me too.

I don't want to lose him. I would rather elevate him than lose him. I think sometimes you got to take a risk in a gamble on these guys, even if you don't think they're ready.

You already said it scared money, don't make money. I'm willing to do that if it crashes and burns.

Yeah, the problem is crashing burns means crashing burns for Mike McCarthy too.

But isn't he kind of in that situation any way? That's you know, yeah, that's what you have to think about.

You know, you have to know you're absolutely right.

But you know, if you're Mike McCarthy, you really have to be very mindful of what you're about to do because you need to find a way. You You probably like coaching here, yeah, you like, you know, you don't. Nobody wants to get fired. But see this is now where the and you mentioned the potential dominoes. I think a guy like Joe Witt has to weigh a couple of things here. Could he go be the d C with the commanders on a three year deal or could

And the one thing that dan.

Quinn has as a as a bargaining chip is that he's got years and he could promise years. Nobody here could promise me years, you know, and so that makes it very difficult.

I would keep it.

I'd keep an eye on some outside names. I keep a name a name on outside, name on Mike Zimmer potentially here. I think Mike Zimmer would absolutely love to come back and help. And you know, and he and Mike competed it against each other in Minnesota and Green Bay. Very familiar with his game. Uh, he caused Mike some problems. Maybe maybe Mike's not Mike zimber guy, you know, but that would be a guy that I would look at. He'd keep you in your four three front. He'd bring

He used to drive me absolutely nuts.

But but but that's what Mike could bring here. Now, if it is, we'll see what happened with the staff. That probably is your first option. Guy like Martindale who's out there from the Giants, we've known him from the Ravens and then now with the Giants.

That's a three four front.

You know, if you're Mike McCarthy again trying to keep my job here, do I want to be changing personnel? Do I want to be having to flip a defense? You know, there's a lot of things, a lot of moving parts here that potentially could happen. The one, like I said, that makes the most sense to me would be, you know, if if Mike wants to give Al one of those guys a chance, Yeah, great, great, give him a chance. But also know that you know it's a first time d C and what we see what happened

No question.

These are the candidates that I have written down. I kind of go up as a hot board type type content. Piece of Dallas Cowboys dot Com later today mentioned Mike Zimmer, him and McCarthy have a really good relationship. Back and back when McCarthy was let go by Packers, Zimmer came out and he said, that's sad, that's a mistake. He was very critical of that decision. Ron Rivera also really tight with Mike McCarthy, but.

He would help me.

He would help you with the Rooney rule. Yes, you still you still have to deal with here offensive, defensive courting.

He's also been very good against the run.

Now he had some guys up front that you could rely on in Washington to help stop the run.

And to do that, we mentioned Al Harrison, Joe Whitt Junior. Those are the in house possibilities I think. I think if you look at those two, Joe wit Junior would have to be the favorite in as far as in house candidates go, just based on you know, his experience, what he's been able to bring. And then three guys that are currently unemployed, Brandon Staley, Wink Martindale, Jack del Rio. So those are some names you could you can kind of think of. I mean, I mean I've seen on Twitter,

I think taking a year off.

I think he is too. It makes sense kind of makes sense too, But it would.

Be fun, It would be fun. It would be also three four kind of guy as well.

Mike Rabel is going to add some toughness in discipline, which I think cowboy face and you're craving right now, But I wonder about that. I think some of the other names that you gave are really good. I did read from our buddy John Michoda back in twenty twenty one. Joe Who Junior was talking about his two dream jobs, one wash to be the head coach at South Florida, the others to be the defensive coordinator of the Dallas Cowboys.

Interesting.

Yeah, so maybe he pushes for that pretty hard so he can accomplish one of those dreams.

Yeah. I mean also too, to add to the Joe Wit training. I mean, as far as we talk about you know, you mentioned family and things like that, I know that he has two.

Lovely daughters that he definitely has mentioned.

Even like Will McLay, I want to stay here for my kiddo, and those are other factors that play into some of these decisions as well, to stay put and to you know, have that stability. So whoever come in here, I hope that it translates. Well, Yeah, I'm very I don't know about y'all, but I'm a definitely kind of on edge a bit about who it's going to be because not only that, it changes how we have to look at the draft and how we have to evaluate

Along those same lines.

There's another question on Twitter on the twenty, Ryan asked how bad are scouts sweating trying to figure out who their next defensive coordinator is?

So, Brian speaking, this is where it changes things. This is the problem, and this is the ranch. You hear me go on about continuity and not wanting to change and things like that, because it does all of a sudden if you do get a new defensive coordinator and say he is a a week Martindale who they determined, you know, he has a three four history. Now you have to determine okay, the players that I didn't feel

Before I talked to Will McLay yesterday and mobile I was curious to see how the Scouting Department had approached twenty twenty and Mike McCarthy coming in and having to deal with that kind of change regime, because that happened while they were in the middle of this similar process that happened earlier in the cycle, obviously, but how does how does that kind of factor into a potential DC change?

He had said at that.

Time, there's an organizational structure to what they do as aouting department, what they do as a front office. So whenever I asked him yesterday, I was like, does that kind of play into a potential defensive coordinator change?

This is the quote that he gave.

At the end of the day, when you're looking for players, you're looking for the biggest, strongest, fastest, most athletic guys and seeing how they fit into our scheme, whatever that scheme is. We've got to evaluate the players and if that scheme changes at any point in time, you still have that value as to what guys are and how they could potentially fit. And I said, does that kind of link back to that organizational structure.

He's like, yes, absolutely, it does.

So I really don't think there's going to be a major change as far as scouting department goes, because they look at all these guys anywhere, you know, they know, okay, this is a three to four guy that I think this guy would better fitting a four, two, five, so on and so forth. So whenever a guy comes in, they just kind of plug in place. I mean, it's kind of the beauty of the scouting department is you

We got to look at.

Different guys holy fit with that. These guys they already have the whole thing mapped out. You know, they're much ahead further than all of us even dream about being. So I really don't think there's gonna be a ton that goes into it, but there's obviously gonna have to be some intention and some purpose behind it.

Having the cornerstone of Will McLay in that scouting department that helps with that continent about question.

And we've talked about it in this show before.

Dan Quinn guys, Oh he's a dan Quinn guy, long lanky corner.

Oh he's a speed edge rusher.

These guys on the interior, that that'll change, that sort of conversation will change. But like you're saying it's not going to change a whole lot over there. I did have a conversation yesterday before the news kind of came down with a couple individuals across the building and I asked them just kind of dan Quinn.

I was like, how much does he helped you guys in the past, And he said The response I got was he can evaluate.

He can A lot of coaches can aren't asked to do it and aren't really great at it. He was saying, one thing we'll miss is the fact that he can evaluate players at the top of the level. And if that's the case, you're gonna missed that and you might need a guy like that to come in and fill that void. And then maybe that's the veteran decision making process that you go through.

Yeah, I think you saw that. And then the impact of the draft.

Obviously he's been his input, but also to he can clearly evaluate, because if you look at some of the defensive players that are on this team, they they got better with him here.

They improved with him here.

I mean even if Jay ron Kurst that you brought in, say what you want to say, but his first two years here, this was someone that people considered a journeyman and you got special, fantastic.

Play out of him.

Anthony Brown before he left, I felt like he had some of his best.

Years when dan Quinn got here. Yeah, dron Blant, I think that.

Yeah, when you talk about evaluating, yeah, for sure, he clearly has it.

Even looking at Marquis Beell.

He.

Bring up Miah Yah.

Yeah, micas Well got what I'm saying.

He put Mike at edge, you know.

And and I would like to challenge anybody to watch Penn State tape and tell me that he was going to.

Get even seeing Tank some three tech things, somebody stay, he's seen.

Well, that's the thing I think that.

I think that Will, you know, when you start to talk about Dan, I think Will really respected Dan's ability to go out there, roll up his sleeves and go shoulder to shoulder with the scouts and work and be a you know, and being in Tuscaloosa and being Lexington, Kentucky.

And we saw him in Iowa last Yeah.

I mean I mean Dan is like, Okay, give me a list and tell me when.

These pro days we go work with these Yeah, And there's a lot.

Of times where these coaches they go and they just don't. They don't want to be They just don't want to be a part of it. They just really don't. The one the best ones I've ever been around, like a Bill Parcells, they want to be in there, they want to be talking about these guys. You know, it makes your team better that way, no doubt.

And he clearly had a plan for a guy like Overshown, right, Yeah, I mean so, I mean you mentioned the continuity. I think that's why I think at Joe whit Junior will probably be the leader for this job. But I think that what he deserves a lot of credit for for here. And we talk about scheme, you talk about what you know, does a defensive conader want to do? The best coaches, I'm going to figure out how to maximize my talent

Bill Parcells is like, let's go to a three four.

You got undersized players, you got Dat and Winn, you got next to Cokeley you know, and what are they doing. They got the number one overall defense of a five and eleven team. That's what makes these great defensive coordinator specialists. Even if I don't have quote unquote my guys, I'm going to find a way to excel with the talent that I currently have. And as long as you got good football players, which I think is what this draft process is all about, you find a way to make this this team.

Will always have good football players because the scouts do a great job here, They really really do. It was a little bit of a stumble. We'll see what happens with this last class. But this class. You never have to worry about this group tanking, Yeah, because they will always if they as long as they let them pick players, they will find players.

This group will do that.

Yeah, the talent is there.

But when we're talking about who's going to be the new defense as a coordinator, the scheme is what is whooped yo tail?

Yeah that's a good point.

So that's what I'm and you're gonna.

See that scheme twice a year now in Washington. You will see it across the way.

Yeah, it's gonna be how about that four times a year? You're gonna see Mike McCarthy versus one of his former coordinators. You can see him Againstkellen Moore twice a year, and you're gonna see him against Dan Quinn twice a year.

Interesting couple of games coming up this year. I do want to fit.

In a draft specific question, James Jackson asked who would be the bigger impact in Dallas if he was taken in the first round. Jackson, Powers Johnson from Oregon center or Byron Murphy, the second defensive lineman interior defensive lineman out of Texas.

He's scared.

Yeah, this is a fun one. I had saw a seen that reply.

Whenever I saw that you tweeted that out, and I was like, I knew he's gonna bring this one up. I knew it for me, it's gonna be Powers Johnson. I think I think he's a guy that can be a multi year starter at center from day one and be really efficient and really good at it. I love Byron Murphy. I think he could be awesome as a defensive tackle. I think you need a guy with a little bit more size if you're looking at the Dallas defense. But I still think Bayern Murphy is a guy that

I mean, this is but is Jackson powers Johnson going to be an All Pro one day?

I think he has that potential. I'm saying, like, both of these guys had that potential. Both of these guys are young, they're both coming out early. You can't go wrong with either of those picks. But based on what Dallas needs today, I'm taking Jackson.

Give me a position that that would make you think differently over the center, yeah, okay, give.

Me a position, yeah, okay, give me a leit linebacker. But there's this class. That's not one in this class.

Okay, so there's not You don't have a linebacker that's that you would take that's better than the center.

How about an offensive tackle?

Yeah, that's that's the question too. If he slips to twenty four, do you take a tackle or do you take the center? And I think there's a couple of interesting things you run into there. One, if you don't take a tackle in the first round, or you're not going to get a good one at fifty six or past.

So, like if you need a tackle in this draft. You got to get it at twenty four.

You're already on the edge at twenty four of exact guys exactly.

But if you wait on taking the center, then you have an opportunity to take a Zach Fraser or to take a Bowl Lemmur or et Centric Vampiing Brander later on. Yeah, you'd have to develop those guys a little bit, but you still have kind of options in house with TJ. Bass, Brockoffman, et cetera, that you can work at center where it's tackle. I think there's more of a need there. It'd be interesting, It's an interesting conversation that'd be curious to know the people across the hall think about it.

You got some I agree with you.

No, I was just gonna say I agree that I think that the interior I can't pull you off the center.

I think the interior depth is better.

It's it's it's better than what the tackle depth is later in the in the rounds or whatever. We already talked about some of the guys we even saw at the Shrine Bowl and some of what they were able to do. But the center position is I'm not swaying on that. I'm sorry, you're.

Not going to move.

You shouldn't. The center position is very.

Very I feel very strongly about it right.

Now, and I think that he's Jackson power. Johnson think is a special player. I think for me, the one that I would kind of maybe defensive end. I still think that might be a sneaky need for this football, Tay. And if you have somebody that slides down to you that we are not expecting, whether it is a Jared Verse or a Chop Robinson or a lot too, maybe it's because of medical Those are players I would look

I'm pulling the trigger, and it's important.

I think when you talk about edge, I think this past year you looked at the Cowboys and you said, okay, well, and also too with dan Quinn Leman, like there's some guys that came here specifically for him play defense, like a Dante Fowler and those guys, I am very curious to see how they attack edge because I do think it's about time to maybe get some production there outside of the gentlemen that have been doing what they do well.

And also, are you retaining Dorince Armstrong.

That's what I'm saying, That's what I feels about that.

Time of like, it's tough for me to justify the depth at tackle position here in this draft to take anything else, okay.

Because you're gonna get such a run in the first round on tak exactly. And here's what if a Guidon.

Is there and the Cowboys say, hey, we like this.

Guy, stop playing with me.

I'm down for it.

I mean, if they evaluate an office to tackle, I don't think anybody should be doubting their vision for that point.

Morgan out of Arizona, guiding out of Oklahoma, Jackson Powers, Johnson out.

Of Oregon are all on the board of twenty four? Who you taking? I'm taking Jack's powers, Johns Okay, so you're staying with center?

Center?

Yeah?

Center?

Who would you still stay there? Center? Staying there?

Yeah? I mean I think this.

Is all of them except for baby Poalty.

I think, yes, all of them. Yeah, Well, hold up, there's a different. That's a different. Here's the deal. Grand Barton's not how positive he is right now.

He has Johnson is getting all this love and and and he deserves it, and I think the position flex is something that's really intriguing to me.

Who's the better athlete?

There's power, Johnson's a better athlete than Graham Barton.

I think powers Johnson's stronger.

I think Barton's a better app played left to see I think, I don't think.

I don't think. I don't know.

I don't know if he can think got a little bit more nasty.

Why isn't Joe getting any love here?

Oh no, Joe, I just don't think Joe sniff in your.

To make sense talking about Williams, you need to go talk to Dan quinn at too.

Otherwise, Hell yeah, if you want to move up and you'll get Joe, do that.

If there is a run, if there is a run, do you even consider because again we're talking about tackle, Hey chance steal came back? Yeah, do you even if the board falls and everybody's gone?

Do you even look at it? Amarus Mims, because he does.

They think he has They think he has flexed to be he does right.

Side and left.

He just doesn't have a great body of work. He just hasn't played a lot of it. To look at his athleticism whole, I mean the sky's the limit for this kid into what you want?

What do you got to sell it?

No, I mean I mean the size of Yeah, I mean the size is crazy.

I really like his initial punch.

Yes, I was looking at him because I was trying to figure out, like, why is this punch so strong? I will say he does have times where I don't know if this is what he's been taught to do or whatever, but he punches with two hands. Sometimes he's trying to put people on their ass. He's effective when pulling the super athletic in space. Like you guys said, he drives off the ball with strength. He hasn't played He hasn't played a ton, you know, like we talked about.

But his best year was with in twenty two.

I felt like he put together some good some good games there quicksetter with fantastic foot quickness. Laterally, I think he can work on this awareness. But I think he has a solid, solid recovery and can disengage.

He can help in space too. He can help out his buddy, I Yo.

I want him to be a little stronger finished and blocks in the run game. And but his hand placement and stuff is there, Like the the basics of what you're looking for from this.

Position is there.

It just depends on what people decide. I mean, he really showed up. He showed up at the right time. Going to show up and say show you can play the playoffs is probably the right time.

So, I mean, I know a lot of people like I'm scared his gay boy.

Draws in the playoffs. Let's let's take a look at the player. See and if it and are you a coach or.

Are you not all right?

That is?

I suffer from comparison syndrome.

You're gonna be the kid that that the giants have.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no no. I suffer from comparison syndrome. Whenever I look at somebody and I know this is a great somebody.

That I have in my hand right here, I see another.

But there's a greater somebody that I feel like is the same product of this realm, and that is JC Latham for me, Like if I'm looking at h Marus Mis, that's a better version of a Marius is.

A right tackle for sure, Yeah, and that's you probably have a little bit more versus whims I think can be a left tackle. I JC Latham is the guy we haven't talked about a lot because I don't think he's making it to twenty four. But you talk about another dude who's violent.

If he's a right tackle, only if if scouts seem the same way you maybe could that be a slide.

I could be, But then again, what are you gonna do if you're the Cowboys? Because belay locked into Terrence Steele. I mean it's likely that Lathan for me would be we talk about some depth, and this is a guy that I know you've written about and he's here in Frisco right now for the Shrine Bowl. Then that does intrigue me. South Dakota State's Garrett Greenfield, all right, that's another big boy talking about fifth.

Round grade is exactly what I wrote down.

So that's a guy you talk about depth if you don't attack tackle early. But I think he projects to me as an ideal backup swing tackle that can possibly be a starter for you because he's played the first two years he played on the right side, then moved over to the left side.

But powerful punch.

I mean there are some times he is literally getting one hand on an edge and he is dropping to the ground. I mean, the dude is violent and strong, and to me, the Tanda blocks you're good. He's got really long arms. He's an intriguing late day three prospect for me. Garrett Greenfield offensive tackle for something. If you're looking at him though, as as a potential swing and.

A possible starter.

Later in his career, you may have to go higher than the fifth because those are so valuable and these teams value these.

These tackles so much higher.

Yeah, so that may be a fourth round guy that you just have to take a pick on.

Can I interest you in a corner?

Yeah?

Throw it at it.

I'm interested. Go ahead.

Kid.

Mitchell from Toledo C one, C one, Okay, Mitchell's number two for me.

It's it's roight there. It is right there. I'll give you that. It is right there.

But man, he had an awesome week. He had a phenomenal week inmobile tape's good too. Gosh, man, he's funn He's a technician. He's not the biggest in the world. He doesn't have the longest arms in the world, but he's he has that natural corner frame sure, and he is a technician. And it's beautiful to see that come out of Toledo.

That's a weak quarterback class.

Corner corner man, I've seen some good ones.

There's some good ones.

Now there's some guys that are kind of slightly built, you know what I mean, slight like you know, one seventy eight kind of guys.

Yeah, one eighties. You know.

I'll tell you what. I watched a kid the other night. I don't know if you guys.

Have done this.

Oh where'd I go? Where'd my guy go? The Penn State corner?

H King?

Kaylyn King King?

Yeah, King's interesting.

Yeah, I mean he's five eleven, one ninety one. This guy long arms though, Yeah, yeah, he is a Kaylen King. If you haven't seen him, take take a peek in him. He where's number four for Penn State. But I get back to it though, could it could a corner pull you off a tackle?

No?

Could a corner pull you off the center? Could a corner pull you off an edge?

Yes? Okay, he could pull me off an edge?

Yeah, I see what you guys are doing, which corner Like you guys, you guys are looking for a plug and play. Offensive alignment is what you're looking for. Yeah, that's exactly what I think, because you know that that this team knows how to draft plug and play line right.

But I also think the value matches kind of where they're drafting right now. But to your point, if a Mitchell slid and I put this in my notes, you guys call me crazy.

He reminds me to Ron Blant, you're crazy. I think they're.

Similarly in both of their games with the way that they attack the football and and their build a little bit and the way that they move. I think I was like Mitch Dang, there's something about him drawn Bland kind of stands out.

Okay, Mitchell uh from Toledo or Murphy Texas defensive tackle.

M Oh, that's that's what I'm taking.

You're taking.

I'm taking Murphy to me, I think by Murphy's only first round defensive tackle.

I think he goes tough. I think Newton Murphy. I wouldn't put the first round Murphy.

I was the first round.

I do like Sweat a lot as like a like a back in first round guy.

But Rake in half yesterday was that Arkansas in Arkansasmer, that's.

A tough one.

That was Sweat who did that limber? Though?

Man, he fights and he competes his rear off and he's a little smaller. He's got some limitations, but he's got natural leverage for me, like Bowlimmers till he plays a three hundred and sixty two pound guys, he sweat pretty well.

What's unfortunate about it?

On Tuesday whatever day one to practice was he puts sweat in the ground.

Yeah, he's the only one.

We didn't see that. Yeah, that Murphy.

You see Limmer on his backside. It's just that's tough.

I got a safety that's interesting me.

Right now?

Can we do it after the we can let's take our second break. We're going to continue this conversation.

Up.

It's not Bowler. I also want to bring up.

Another offensive guard that might be some depth there for the Cowboys if they're looking in the later rounds. More of the draft show coming up in a matter of moments.

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Star District hosting the Shrine Bowl tonight, East West Shrine Bowl getting started seven o'clock Central Time on NFL Network.

We'll be out there and we're.

Also going to have an extra show tomorrow as well. We're gonna have an extra draft show at eleven am Central time to break down the final senior bull practice, get the film in, kind of break that down as well, and then of course take a deep dive into the Shrine Bowl and what happens tonight. We've got Zach Wilchuck, Nick Harris, Brian brought us Ayasha Morrison.

I'm Kyle Yeomans. All right, Ayisha, you talked about a safety. I want to hear about the safety you wanted to bring up.

All right, So we last year we realized, like, man, Maryland has a nice little.

Program up there.

They do a nice shot.

They're doing up there. They got some tough guys. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know where I'm going with this?

Was this is it bo Bo Brady Bo Brady?

Okay, it's I watched it.

It is a dope name. But when I watched him, I feel like he gives me those.

Brian Branch vibes from last year where it's like, Okay, this guy can play close to the line of scrimmage. He's heady, he's rangy, he has great instincts. I like his reading reaction time. He's not afraid to be a blitzer either. I really he's he's stopped versus the run. And I also feel like his I want people worry about.

His size a little bit Branch too.

Yeah, but he's so tough.

He's a little bit of a looney tune and I like that about him. What do you think about the player I got Brian Branch vised when I watched him the first time.

You just see him everywhere and you like, who is this guy?

One thing I remember about Branch was the corner of safety flex.

Maybe again, I wonder if people worry about him not being like he's he's twitchy, but he's.

Not super big. What did he weigh in at and stuff?

I don't have that, but I would keep him at safety two ten.

I would keep big enafety. It is big enough.

I would keep him at safety just because of his instincts.

And I think Angey too.

He's long, super rangey, super long. Talking to one of the dB coaches that on the team he's on either National American, I forget.

They said.

I said, of all the DB's, who's the ones that's impressing you the most off the field, And it was Bob Brady talk about it. So he's he's impressing them. He's impressing teams formal interviews as well. And this is

This is a guy I really like.

To Maryland, he impressed me.

This coach.

They're well coached up there in Maryland. I think we got to know that program. We got to give that program some credit because they've they've been pushing out some good dbs. As far as him, I definitely feel like this might be one of the only safeties I've seen so far that I think could maybe go late first if if people somebody decided to just because of what he does in the run game too, Doug, I.

Mean, you just can't. You can't.

And he also is effective as a blitzer, so you're getting.

So much from him.

I'm curious to see how much insight because.

I love Cameron Kitchen too. If we're talking late first round, guys, I still is good. I'm not completely sold on him being a first rounderor just yet. I would love to see him move a little bit more at combine. But Matt, I love his tape. It's one of the most fun takes.

And that's interested in Jaden Hicks from Washington State. I haven't watched him.

Yeah, Jayden Hicks about him. Yeah, these are one of those players that's always around the ball. You guys need to watch this cat number twenty five at Washington State. He's six three's two hundred and ten pounds.

He makes a ton.

Of plays where he's at the right place, right time, angles, adjustment, strong, aggressive tackler. He's a physical player in every sense of the word. He does it back down from any challenges. He'll carry receivers that are faster than him out of the slot. He does a great job of the physical skills to make stops. He tracks the ball as a defender. He gets his eyes around to make plays. He's he has no problem matching up with bigger receivers or tight ends.

It's a high effort. You could tell the game is important to.

Him by the way he plays.

You can watch his tape, but give Jayden Hicks six three two ten pounds, Washington State number twenty five. Give him a peak if you can in your scouting world.

Yeah, we're gonna stay in the secondary. I wanted to come back with a full report on Chris Abrams Strain after this past week. Was not the biggest fan of his as far as tape goes. It was more so on the top of route.

He played better.

He played awesome yesterday.

There we go.

I told Kyle this on.

The phone and pounds though.

Yeah, but it's physical. He plays so much more bigger than that.

That's good.

There's a couple of clips on my Twitter IFO take take a look at it.

He had.

He had a couple of really good reps yesterday. But I told this to Kyle on the phone yesterday. If he can keep everything in front of him, yeah.

I like him.

He's physical, he's he's good with his with his feet work once he has to turn his hips and go behind him. Yeah, he's a liability, so I think it would take a little bit of development in that range. That's why I kind of have him as an early day three guy. That's what I put my initial grade on him. I'm gonna have to go back now after Senior Bowl and kind of reevaluate everything. But I liked what I saw from him after not really loving his tape going into Senior.

He's got a couple of corners you can work on. Yeah. Is that teachable though? Like flexible hips. I know we've talked about it a lot. That's mom and Dad.

I feel like that's what you gotta get to, right, Mom and Dad.

You can train for stuff like that and trying and work on you know, sometimes some guys are tight that.

Way, but they're impressing.

Yeah, but they got that edge that nice didn't have a great week.

He didn't have a good week.

I heard question news as well about Cody Schrader, just as far as like evaluations from scouts and things throughout the NFL.

So it was a tough It's been a tough.

David was looking good Kentucky.

He looked good. He looked really good. I'm not I'm not dumping Schraders just yet. I think he's he could still be a productive just no, no, no, no, I don't think Okay, I don't think so.

I think it's just a tough week.

And Okay, Xavier Lagette out of South Carolina that they are we're talking a little bit more terminal. He came in two inches shorter than expect did, had a really rough first day, had a couple of drops. He rebounded yesterday with a strong day. I'm not giving up on him just yet because I think his his long speed is really impressive. Yeah, but I I there's a there's a he's dropped. He's dropped considerably shorter than.

We thought too.

Yeah, he came in two inches shorter than than expected. He was supposed to be about six to three came in about six foot and five eighths.

I think is what it what it came in, so.

Thanks South Carolina.

Yeah, they're talking about him as like a Debo type weapon because he has these thick thighs and he has this long speed. It's it's an interesting comparison.

Based on those Western Kentucky.

Yeah, Malachi Corley as well.

Yeah, a little a little bit shorter on that end, but still yeah, very very much same traits.

I think.

I think you look at the past couple of drafts, teams are trying to find that versatile weapon.

Use like Debo.

Yeah, exactly, and you you you look at you look at how teams start to evaluate based on certain players that are popping in the NFL, and it's it's a fascinating case study.

And we were talking in that last segment about guys st and out mid round guys that you're talking about the unteachable traits and things like that.

One of the more viral clips from the Senior Bowl.

This past during the Wednesday practice was offensive guard I'm already forgetting his name, Christian Haynes from Yukon getting his helmet ripped off, but he stayed in the rep and he finished through. I'm interested to hear what you thought about him.

You filmed it you filmed it.

Six two twenty pounds is what he's measured at Yukon. Players are not great competition, but in terms of what I've seen just in limited tape, I like his footwork.

He has light feet for a three hundred and twenty pound ear over.

This was one of the offensive linemen that I watched first whenever I started to crack down. Okay, I'm gonna start focusing really on draft stuff in like October. Actually, I think I mentioned it on the g Bag Show.

At least once.

Christian Hayes.

I like Christian Hanes, I do I and I like that they're using that versatility with him and giving him a few center reps this week in Mobile.

He looks natural doing it.

I think there's gonna have to be a little bit more mechanic stuff as far as uh snapping the ball goes, but I'm not worried about that.

He looked awesome this week. He's got a great base. He's he's got like a thick mid mid section, but it works. It works. It's that guard thickness that you love to see in the interior. I do too.

I want my interior guys to have that thick gut. I want them to have a waterburger once or twice a week.

You know.

I ibper big gut too. Yeah, that's that's the state.

That's the man I love bigger than than Haines is because from Kansas State is six foot four, three thirty five.

And he's I mean, he's trying to pull the trifect out there. We're at guard, tackle and center. During his time at Case Stage Warsation Flex too, he's.

Had like two thousand snaps too. He plays. I love.

I hated that we couldn't see him this weekend Mobile that that hurt my hurt my soul.

But it hurt me last year coming out kid, he's.

Not Uh, there's plenty plenty to talk about him. We'll talk about him tomorrow. How about that, Well, we'll give a Hooper b b rundown.

Yes, and these gentlemen at the Shrine Bowl because there are some sleeper guards. Oh I like this in this place.

Yes, sorry, agree, you talk about it. Seven o'clock tonight, Shrine Bowl from the Star in Frisco. We'll be there to break it down for you tomorrow eleven am Central time here on the Draft Show for Zach Waltchuck, Nick Harris, Brian bradish I, Easter Morrison, Chris Beam in the back of Kyle Yoman saying so.

Long, we'll see you tomorrow on the Draft Show.

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