Draft Show: Senior Bowl Review & Standouts

welcome back to the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Good to be here. Another mobile trip in the books. I'll tell you what, man, that was a good week, great week. I enjoyed that. I enjoy being around guys practicing and stuff like that. Coaches, you know, you kind of we kind of get it

down to a science. After like five years of doing it, you know, yeah every year, you know, yeah, we're set up in a suite this year doing the show and say like that back if somebody's Winnebago, you know, we've we've come a long way, come a long way from the Winnebago in the parking lot at lad Peebles. Those was good old days. That was kind of fun. I like it. I liked it the way it was last week. Yeah,

I'll tell you what. It was good and I appreciate that, and I appreciate everybody falling along with us oh that week and then being back with the day. Kit Garrison is executive producing this broadcast today. I want to get into putting a bow on this Senior Bowl stuff, and David, I think you have a few questions that you want to get into that maybe we can discuss. I like when you bring stuff to the table, and well, wevee

this opportunity to do that. We kind of talked about this last week, which is just for a variety of circumstances. I don't think I've ever watched less of the Senior Bowl practices than I did. Because you're hunting Jerry and Steven. Yeah, you know, the Cowboys are trying to make like fifteen different coaching high and Jerry and Stephen Jones both make themselves available for interviews. It creates quite a stressful environment for a Cowboys beat writer. So I didn't get to

focus as much as you guys did. So, you know, rather than just try to talk out of my butt. I figured i'd just ask you guys what you thought about what you saw got you if we can get into the game a little bit too, you know, that would probably help us tie this thing up. But so so what we got three practices and a game. Yeah, I want to know from both of y'all. You know, we both I want you both to answer. So let's

not let's not read a book on this. No, Nah, who's a guy that you that you thought looked better live than when you watched him on tape heading into this? Who do you got? Go ahead, I'll let you roll first on this one. Uh yeah. I think every year with these All Star games, there are certain players that make you go back to the tape and say, Okay, what did I miss or you know, what's going on with this player that maybe I just watched the wrong

games and I just need to watch more. Yeah, um, I think for me, I would go with the Hawaii safety Trayvon Henderson, who I thought I had a great week in practice. In the game, looked comfortable in reverse out of his break, speaking plays on the ball, found the ball located well, tackled well, and I had questions about him finishing in space on tape, some wasted movements, which expected for a safety, but I thought he played much better than I expected during the practice and then

followed up in the game. Harrison Phillips, defensive tackle, Stanford, you were killing that guy at the start of last week. Absolutely, I was there, you go, shrum player. Yeah. I don't know if he's a first front player, but I will say this though his tape, his live look is better

than what his tape is in my opinion. I mean, I saw a guy it struggled at times, being on the ground and getting washed and stuff like that, but he's an effective player inside, you know, and I could see someone making him an was tackle and him being good at it. I did. I killed the guy that Stanford tape. I didn't understand what you were looking at. I really didn't. And the guy had one hundred and

three tackles. That hundred in three. Yeah, the next best defensive tackle or interior defensive lineman had seventy three and that was At Oliver from Houston, going to be a top five pick next year. Forty tackles is pretty good for a defensive tackle, right right. Yeah, my live look at him and how he plays with leverage and stuff. Is that was better than what I saw on tape. And you see the wrestling background, you see the instincts.

He's very smart, like he understands where what the offense is trying to do, where the ball is going to be right. So he's a right place, right time kind of guy. So I think that definitely helps it there. I agree with you. There are times where he is on the ground, there are times gets washed, and yeah, especially against doubles, so he's not maybe that traditional knows that everyone's going to be looking for, but he can

be an effective player inside. Who is a guy that you felt good about going into Senior Bowl week that you're kind of concerned about now Brian O'Neill tackle pit. I think we're the same one. Yeah, yeah, I do. I have concerns about him now. I thought it was going to be a thing. I know. I compared him to some guys like Nate Solder who's playing in the Super Bowl. This, David Baktiar that with the Green Bay Packers,

kind of a light guy athlete. Tape is actually pretty good, but you watch him play when people get him off balance, it is a big, big, struggle for him. I just didn't feel like, in again, the strength that will be a problem. But I thought his athletic ability always would save him. Boy, but he was not as good as he needed to be in these practices and men in the game, he gave up a sack. So I was I was a little high on him. Excuse me, not a little high. I was a lot high on him.

You were pretty high. And so now I need to kind of maybe go back and study that a little more. I think we saw a guy who's a very athlete. I mean, this is a former tight end who didn't make the move the tackle until his red shirt freshman year at pit So he's still relatively young at the position of offensive tackles, and he still has a ways

to go. But once he goes to the combine and runs a four to nine and performs well, you know, in the explosion drills and the leaping drills, I think that his draft stock will still be somewhere mid second day. But you saw it in this week that there are plenty of issues that he needs to work on before he's ready to take NFL snaps. Yeah, I agree. I think one more that I would point out would be Jalil Scott, my guy from New Mexico State, who I

like a lot. Yeah, but when you're that size, you know, you're six six or six five, Yeah, you better come down with contested catches. And I don't think I saw that he struggled in those areas. You know, he's just not a powerful guy. He loses focus when there's a defender on his back. When you have a huge catch radius like he does, right, you need to uh, you need to come down with those contested grabs. And he just didn't do that enough. So you know, it wasn't

what I expected from him this week. He has a lot of talent, but in order for him to reach its potential, not only on draft day, but once he gets to the NFL, he needs to show he needs a bulk up, add more strength, and just be a better focused player in those situations. Absolutely terrified of that guy. A lot of good tight ends in this game. Yeah, Fortunately it didn't get to see as much of Dallas

Goddard as we probably would have. Sure he exited pretty early. Yeah, hamstring problem there, but and I mean throw him in there if you still you know, if you still want to. But of all the tight ends. You saw who impressed you the most. I think there are several different directions we could go here, because I thought all of the tight ends impressed me. At some point I thought this is the most complete position unit at the Senior Bowl in terms of talent across the board we mentioned Goddard

Ian Thomas from Indiana had his moments. Mike Kiseki had a good week. He has those long legs and when he's clean in his routes and he doesn't get tied up, he makes him impressive catches down the field. He blocked better in practice than he did at Penn State. Yeah, I mean it. Usually you see him and he's kind of getting ragged all a little bit and thrown around and doesn't play with power. Been killing him for the last month. Oh yeah, he can be a mismatch weapon.

He can't. I mean now you watch him playing the red zone. Absolutely, Yeah. He has a feel for a tall guy. He has a field for how to play in space. Penn State was so tough to defend in the red zone because of all the run pass options they had designed for Berkley and Gasecki's kind of picked your poison and yeah, Penn State figured out a way to beat defenses in the red zone. With those two guys, I would just a smart way of using your talent.

I'm Derham Smith for Notre Dame and guy had to talk about I gave him a third round grade based on tape off tape, and I thought he lived up to that because he's not gonna vow you in any one area. But he's got good route quickness, he catches the ball in traffic. He's a very good blocker, just a well rounded tight end who I think him play in this league for a long time. George Aikins UCF is another one you need to keep an eye on. Okay,

he's a good athlete. And Tyler Conklin, yeah, Central Michigan. I thought he you know, coming from the MAC. I see that's if you're a Cowboy fan and you're thinking about tight ends, because I got into Twitter discussion with some folks this morning about Jason Witten and if you know, if that's what you want to do, if that's a route, this draft looks like it's got guys at all levels

that you could grab. You can get a fu mcgalley in the fourth round from Wisconsin yeah, and that's a guy that's not a great athlete, not the biggest guy, but mine Wisconsin Twitter on right now you do I like it? But great route runner and you's the football Yeah. Yeah. Uh. This is an interesting one which I'm curious for y'all's take because I can't I can't come to a consensus

opinion looking at Twitter and everything else about this. But who do you think help themselves more between Baker Mayfield and Josh Allen? And the reason the reason I bring that up is, you know, you look at Twitter and yeah, media types they were killing Josh. They have very strong opinions. And then you know, thanks to the privileges of our job, you have a chance to go talk to some scouting

types and they're like, uh no, Josh Allen is the man. Yeah, so you tell me, I could make an argument for both, for either one of them. I mean, Baker came and I think he did exactly what he needed to do, showing off you know, the snap arm arm strength, set up quickness is really impressive. Oh, from the snap to the way to the to the way it leaves his arm. So it's all quick, absolutely so, and he's able to generate that velocity from that that quickness, that snap and

his ball placement. It's what we saw at Oklahoma. I mean, the seventy completion percentage. It's more than just offense that he ran in Oklahoma. It's a very accurate pastor. He can anticipate those passing windows and he delivers. We saw him use his legs, his movement, and he started a little slow, but towards the end of the practice each day I thought he got better and better. And then Josh Allen, you know, we saw what he did during

the game. That was he started a little bit slow, but came out in the second half and was fantastic. What you really like to see was instead of just fastball, fastball fastball, those two touchdowns that he threw in the game, beautiful touch right. He lofted it over the defender right into the arms. Didn't make the receiver work for it at all. So, you know, and during the week of practice he got better each game. And so again on tape, Yeah, there's plenty to dig him on with the inaccuracy and

just the body rhythms off. But you see that he has talent, and you know, it's just it's a question of potential and if he's going to reach that. And during the Senior Bowl he didn't hurt himself because he took NFL coaching. He got better with each day, and I certainly understand why some people are excited to see him as he develops day by day. Once against the NFL, his arm talent's rare. It is, it's rare when he makes defensive backs struggle to have to defend him. When

he is accurate. Again, that's going to be the question. Can you get him accurate? But he he you you have to be on your game when he's throwing the ball well, and I'm talking about as a defender, because the ball is it's by you. Yeah, I mean you're trying to swat. I mean there were times where the defenders were trying to get to the ball and they couldn't do it because it was on the it was on the receiver before they had a chance to react. And also in the pocket. He's a big body, dude.

You saw defenders. I mean it's kind of like you know a Cam Newton where you know you can make contact with him. He's not gonna go He's not gonna just fall over. I wish I wish that that he had to set up quickness though, I wish he had to set up quickness though. Of Baker Mayfield, Well, I mean, I know, I'm just saying, I mean, mails no, but I'm just saying, I mean, to me, it's very deliberate. Yeah, it's very deliberate. And the armed talent makes up for

how deliberate he is setting up. I just I mean, I already said my piece on this, but you know, talking to people who know a lot more about football than I do, who are convinced that that you can make it, you know, h Allen, will you know reach that potential? I just twenty how many attempts did he have on Saturday? Fifteen? Thirteen attempts? Like, do you trust thirteen attempts against base defenses and minimal blitzing? Or did that trust six hundred attempts in the Mountain West where?

Oh sure, that's I mean, I just I just think that if you look at though, I think Dan's try. I think both guys helped themselves a certain way. I went into this, but I mean, yeah, you could have gone out there, he could have gone there in big time. Everybody would have really buried him. He missed him throws during the game, you're throws in practice. Your point is absolutely valid. Oh, he missed plenty of Your point is absolute valid. About the game being scheme, there's no blazes,

no pressures. Don't worry about that. At the same time, he made rosy and he deserves credit for that. I don't think I absolutely agree. I really don't think that Senior Bowl moved the needle for either of these guys. I think I like, I don't think I went into Senior Bowl not not loving Josh Allen. I don't think you all of a sudden like him. Now. I'm glad

that both guys, along with the other quarterbacks. That has to be the most nerve racking week for players to have to go through with every rep is evaluated, every snap, every misstep, every jump off, sides, every pass interference, everything you have is just totally evaluated. And the quarterbacks and the quarterbacks, Yeah, I just I thought they got better. I at the quarterbacks as a group got better as the week war on. I was a group. I went into it not wanting to take either one of them

seriously as like a first round pick. But I think you have to after and I'm not saying that they weren't. That's just my attitude. I don't, you know, it's like, okay, whatever, but you can't. I don't. I don't think you can do that. Having watched the way they played, I think it's it's tough to envision a scenario where both aren't off the board in the top fifteen. Yeah, yeah, I think I agree with that, which is good for Cowboys fans. Yep.

I was gonna say. My main impression is that I'm glad that this team doesn't have to be the one that makes takes a chance on he throw. Sure, who was y'all standout wide receiver which have fun? There's no shortage of options to choose for him? Uh you know? Yeah, we could talk about DJ Chark from LSU, who had more yards in the game than he ever did. Yeah, but when he had that speed, you know, it's kind of like Will Fuller from Notre Dame. You know, so

inconsistent Notre Dame. But when you could take the top off a defense like that, you're gonna go high. I don't think DJ Chark's the first round player. No, I don't Will Fuller, but I wouldn't be shocked if you want the second round. Yeah, you know, I wouldn't be shocked at all. See you're talking to two guys that watched him play every week, and we the word heartbreak is what I always think about with him. Yeah, I think about some incredible plays and then I think about

the ones like why did he not? The Alabama game comes to mind. I think I said this last week, like I think of Bryce Butler when I watched DJ Chark, Like there's under niable game breaking ability and speed and he'll get behind the defense or he'll take an end to round and next thing you know, he's twenty yards down field after what seems like four steps. But I just it's not consistent enough for me to think Washington from Oklahoma State really helped himself. He was the best

wide receiver down there. There's no question in my mind about that. And then Hamilton helped himself to Hamilton, Yeah, from Penn State. I mean people probably at hitting probably people probably had him in the fourth round, maybe a third round guy, maybe fifth round guy. Now fourth round I had him as a four or five, and now I'm thinking more four, solid, solid four here guy. I still don't think he's a top one hundred guy, you know, because he's probably gonna run a four or five six. Same.

He's not a big guy, not a fast guy. The drops bothered me. But as a route runner, very clean. He understands how did he get defenders off balance? He can create his own space and that's valuable. So I think solid four. So he did help himself. But James Washington, the releases the route running, he beat defenders with more than just speed. Yeah, you could see that on the practice tape right and you saw progress, you know, and that's what that's what you're asking for. That's exactly what

you're asking for. I'm gonna remember Hamilton years from now. Like you know, people pull out of the Senior Bowl and like the old the Senior Bowls dumb like nobody except for the Danes of the world. I mean, he's the all time leading receiver and Pence they hit. I know, like people know who he is. But like in terms of the draft, he was not a name whatsoever. When he was a late call up, you know he was Yeah, and he he's got it built momentum. He wanted to compete.

He wanted to and I know there's a chance you can get hurt, but you can really only help yourself, in my opinion, when there were a few there were a few players who played at the Shrine and got the late call up and decided not to go to the Senior Bowl because they did a good week. This it's shrine. It's not the forty yard dash, Like, don't stand on your shrine game. Just go like even if you suck'd be like, well, he came out here and competed against the best. That So I think that I

think that's the most impressive thing to scouts. When you show up in practice or run or whatever, stand on your forty If you run a four three three, stand on that and don't run an again. Everybody understands that. Yeah, don't stand on a good week of practice. Go put more good days of practice together. Yeah. Um better, Oh god, these these are the names better, better potential outside linebacker rush rush guy, the guy from USC or the guy from Oklahoma. Those are that don't make me, says Quo.

Sue is easier in oakraw wonk girl close. That's it's gonna take a while. That's way harder than I think he's got the I think he's the one that I liked the best. I really do owe you. Oh you okay, absolutely, he's he's got he's got the what the thirty five inch arms? Yeah? Yeah, not bad, that's what you're looking for. I'll tell you what though. Let me I think if you use him as an outside linebacker, like I say, as a maybe a sam linebacker, but also let him

rush in the nickel. See I'm not I'm not there with you. Okay, you're gonna take USC. It depends if I'm gonna If I need a linebacker, I'm taking USC because I like him better dropping. I like him better in space, then I like, ok If I need a guy to get up field, I'm taking okron Quo. Yeah. So, but that's what I'm saying. I think that you're talking about how could who who could affect the game? They affect the game dropping or rushing. To me, okron Quo

is a defensive end. I don't see. I know he's he's shorter, but he has length and I like his ability to get up field. So to me, I don't want okron Quo to drop. I want him to get up field. Oh may I'm with you on that rush Yeah, give me rush? Yeah exactly so is he. I'm sorry, he's a comparable height to carl Awston, is he not? He's yeah, I mean six I think Carlson was six o one six maybe, yeah, it sounds about right. And what's like six one six? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I'm just

throwing it like he's not. He's got I mean, he can do it, especially with his arms right, do it right? Okay, And that that's what I'm saying. I want if I need to seem a defensive end, I seem his defensive end. And that's we talked about him before the Senior Bowl, and I told you I was kind of I didn't know what to think of him yet. I wanted to see him the Senior Bowl to kind of firm up my opinion. And I think he did that with what

he showed with his hand on the ground. If he's standing up whatever, he's a lot better getting up the field. And I think you can do it on a regular basis as a as a I don't care, left end, right end, I'm okay with him just getting up field. You got one more? Therefore we go to break. Yeah, let's I'm gonna I'm gonna get to that. I like big picture stuff a little bit more. You come out of this this week, these practices, this game. There's a

guy that you just need to look at more. A guy you want to look at more you get back. I was talking about Dave Shawn Hamilton that way. Yeah, I hadn't heard his name. I want to go watch him a little bit more. But from y'all's perspective, Darius Leonard from South Carolina State UM linebacker who on tape I wasn't wowed. UM saw him as tackles. Saw a guy who you see the desire, you see the competitive nature. I didn't, and you see the athleticism, but I didn't

see necessarily the know how. You know. I thought he was just flowing with the ball he was anticipating. At the Senior Bowl, he impressed me more live and in person. So I want to go back to Darius Leonard tape and see more and see if I can find it, because based on tape, I gave him more of a fourth fifth round grade. But during the Senior Bowl, I thought this is a player that could go top one hundred. So I want to go back to the tape and see if I can firm up my opinion on him.

Two Ray the Rutgers Rutgers outside linebacker, because there were some times where as a rusher he looked pretty good as well. You know, here's a guy that and you're looking at the measurables right here, you know, is let's see where I had him right here, Rutgers outside backer six four, two hundred and fifty two pounds. You know, maybe you could do some stuff with him outside linebacker, defensive end. Yeah. I mean he looks like a long,

rangy guy that I liked what I saw rush. I mean, and there were times where I was kind of like kind of sitting there and going, well, who's this guy? Who's this guy? You gravitate toward pass rushers, don't you. I just feel like that's kind of the way the game's going. It's easy to Senior Bowl because that's you know, the pass rush drils. My issue with Rays setting the edge holding up versus the run. I think that's where

I kind of struggle with him. But yeah, when you can get after the quarterback with that type of edge speed, yeah, you know you're gonna go high. I mean there's a chance he could go top fifty, top sixty, especially if he goes to the combine and runs a you know four or five three, which he might. Yeah, medicals will be important with him. He's been dinged up over his career. But yeah, that edge speed to get after the quarterback. I'm with you. Terrey is definitely a name to keep

on the radar. Absolutely, all right, thank you, David. That problem all right, very good question. Okay, when we come back, we'll continue on with David Hellman. We'll do a little Twitter on the twenty. Stay tune. It can be hard to find the right source for learning about important financial matters. You search how to build savings, you end up reading about the one weird ingredient from supermarkets that can make

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and warranty limitations apply, so you love for details. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com wrapped Showboys are on the You Got the Draft Show from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian brought us day Burglar David Hellman, King Garrison, Executive producing Today. It's good to be back here at the Star in Friscope. Uh, we're gonna get into a little bit of twitter on the What do you got from me, David? I got, I got some good questions for y'all, which

appreciate that. I like that. We just did a lengthy Senior Bowl rap and we didn't we didn't mention this guy, which leads to Drew's point, why no buzz on Penn State safety Marcus Allen. I'll be honest, I noticed him like twice the entire week of practice. You know what, He's here's another guy that to me, Yeah, the film that Actually, the film is not bad. I love the film.

The film is really good. And he but he didn't show up in some of the coverage stuff and things like that that I was, you know, you there were some guys that were around the ball more than what Marcus Allen, but man, I and that, and that's unlike his film at Penn State, because at Penn State he's around the ball and he's a box guy. You know, he's downhill, he's attacking, attacking exactly. He's got one of the best batting averages as a tackler of any safety

in this class, no doubt. So in practice isn't necessarily the setting tag offs and stuff, right, so I can understand. It doesn't bother me in the least that he didn't jump out of practice. It's just funny. But you talked about the Hawaii safety. Yeah, as a guy that you noticed he knows well in coverage during practice and then I thought during the game he was a better tackler than perspect it. So, yeah, Marcus Allen to me is still the top senior safety at nothing at the Senior

Bowl changed my mind. Yeah, I don't. I don't disagree. I think he's a really good player myself. Follow up from Drew about a guy who pulled out of the Senior Bowl. Just give me an I don't know, give me your thoughts on Harold Landry. And he's a guy that I mean, people talk about him as a first round pick. They certainly did coming into the season, not so much recently, but I got to imagine that's just recency bias more than anything else. Right, Yeah, he's tough

because he didn't have the senior year we expected. His junior film was a lot better. Um. I talked to him recently and he told me that the ankle is just not one yet and that's why you pulled an out of the Senior Bowl. But he expects to be fully healthy for the combine hopefully is uh so he can, you know, just get some numbers on him because he can get around the edge and attack the quarterback. It's

it's it's get him on my team, right. But you hate to look at the senior film and say, we kind of have to ignore this game can't really count, you know, like the Notre Dame film, you know, like what do we do with this? It's the fewer the question marks, the better, And with Harold Landry. There are more question marks than you want. Yeah, that's one of those things you have to go back and watch other film. But I agree with Dane. I mean, here's a guy

that can rush the past. You do see some ability when he when he's on I mean to dip, you know, the way he's able to close the finish. Those are all very productive things about him, good traits that you want. But his senior year wasn't as good, and you know, maybe the injury had a lot to do with that.

Dustin wants to know how did Marcus Davenport's senior Bowl week compare to other small school guys that you can remember, you know, just in term you know what you want to see from a guy coming from a small school. How do you do this? I'm not saying that by us a smaller school, but yeah, where he didn't have a great week and all of a sudden he showed up in the game. Well, and he showed up as a rookie in the NFL. You know, he still went in top five, or he might have been six that year.

Now he's five. Parkiebius Mingo went six. I think, well, uh, he's thirteen draft Uh so you know, I think that's that's the first thing that comes to mind where And I think people were a little harsh on Davenport this week because he watched the film and you see you see a raw pass rusher. You see a guy that doesn't necessarily know what knows what he's doing. This is a guy that was a basketball player growing up, played wide receiver in high school from most of high school,

and moved to pass rusher. Was two hundred pounds as a senior in high school. He's put on sixty pounds in the last four years. He's still figuring things out. The light bulb is not fully illuminated yet. I think once he gets pro coaching, it's really going to turn on for him. So I don't I think because some in the national media propped up Davenport as a potential top ten, top ten pick, people were overly harsh on him this week. But I think based on the tape,

he was how I expected. A guy that looks exactly how you want a defensive on the look, uses his hands, but there's just no rhyme or reason to what he's doing out there. So I think he needs time. But he's still absolutely a first round pick. In my mind, I was very critical of him and the initially started practice and I went back in the last two days, I've done nothing but watch practice tape, and there was almost every other play he was getting held. You know,

I'm thinking, Okay, why is he not doing this? Why is he not doing that? You watch him when they when they had the two minute drill, when the when the South was practiced in two minute drill, he tips a ball that ends up being an interception that it kills the drill. I mean, he comes around the corner and just I mean and just with the reach with his left hand, reaches and hits the ball and now it goes fluttering down the field. So you went from

high to low back to high. Yeah, I went from a guy that you know, you know, you're I mean, I think Dane's absolutely right. I think there was so much put on him initially coming out, and everybody's like, oh, I don't see it. I don't see it. The overcomb and say, and the overcompen say, and now you have to kind of go back and say, but I'm watching the practice tape. I'm serious, I'm watching the practice tape and I'm thinking, oh, he would have won that one. Oh,

he would have won that one. Oh, he would have won that one. And I think I think fans do it with Josh Allen. Fans do it where some people think Josh Allen's a top five pick, and some people just because they don't see a top five pick, they go over the top to kind of knock him down too because he's not they don't see a top five pick. He might still be worth a first round pick, but they just overcompensate. And I think that's what happened to market.

You have him so high and then all of a sudden, because we were talking about what you take him at nineteen yeah, and I'm and I'm Sarah going, now I'm looking at it, going, hell, yeah, I take him at nineteen. Well. I also think I tried to get Dane to say this while we were in Mobile. He's always too diplomatic for that. But I this is purely anecdotal on my part, but I just felt like the pool of pass rushers that this Senior Bowl wasn't as deep as it usually is.

And that's not you know, it's not that there's always these first round badasses, but there's usually like five or six guys. You know, I think back to a couple

of years ago, like Adolphus Washington and Austin Johnson. I think it was the same year Kuran Reid was there, like the kid that the Eagles drafted, Herley Marcus Smith was that, Like, yeah, there's usually five or six dudes that are kind of drawing your attention, and this year the Stanford kid, Phillips and and Davenport, and it didn't really seem like there were a lot of other guys that you're talking about as early picks and least. I mean, that's my that's the way I read it. Yeah, I'm

not talking about I mean, I'm watching Griffin Rush. I'm watching Griffin Rush and they haven't blocked him. Yeah, they don't. They don't. They didn't block him. My guy, my guy from Humboldt State, Alex Cappa, who I think Alex Cappa is a good player. I do. From Humboldt State. I went back and watched him. You know, oh, kid, he's blocking against guys that are probably accountants and pharmacists and

stuff like that. Yeah, but but he's but he's also you could see him doing some good things against some of these but when you know when those I'm thinking, Man, these guys are winning. They're winning against some guys that looked like some good pass blockers. Yeah. I mean with Kappa, you saw a guy that has the finishing tenacity that you want, the foot quickness. It just the technique, and that's really what you expect from a smaller school guy.

The technique, the pad level. Yeah, some of the more finer points of the games. The details just needs to show her up. Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question about that better better small school prospect, Better small school prospect. You guys love to go in for these Shepherd Division three guys. Shepherd, Shepherd. I don't care who else you say. It's Shepherd. It only took Shepherd over Kappa. It only took day, like a day to come to that conclusion too, because he

broke his hand on Wednesday. Yeah, he only played, He only had a practice and a half. I loved it. Watched the West Georgia tape of this kid play. I have to look back and see which tapes I watched. You go back and watch which Georgia. Okay, that's our guy going going against our big tackle. Oh Desmond Harrison. Yeah, yeah, he rushed them from the outside. Oh yeah, he got him. He's out on the outside of quite a bit. Who won those battles? Watch the tape and find out. Watch

the tape and find out. I went, No, I don't don't think I watched the West Georgia tapas. I would have remembered that matchup. Oh, feel free to go upstairs with me some day and do that. I think the ones I watched were or maybe Delta stage about Southern Do you watch Southern University? Remember it was dark, it was dark out. I remember that. I have to look shaped it well. But no, I liked him coming in and do it through a half. You know what. No, he and he's and I'm not. I'm I'm just having

fun with what's your answer to that question? I would take the I would I think the the upside of the of the humbold tackle is more. Okay, I do. I think I think that he I think that you can to me, he does look like a good athlete. There's some things when you're watching him play and there you know, he's running on screens and outside plays in space and stuff. He looks like a really good athlete. You know, and in the sets and things like that. He had some struggles in the Senior Bowl. But I

mean a lot of guys did. Guys from Oregon had struggles. Guy from Army had strugg I mean, everybody's had struggles from small from bigger schools. I I I don't, I don't. I don't disrespect Shepherd, but from what I saw of his college tape, I think that I would say, if you gave me a choice between the two, I take the other. So you like Kappa better than Parker? The North Carolina and t Town. Now wait a minute there, whoa just a second there, buddy, I'll say this different guy.

One looks stronger. Parker looks stronger. And I wrote about Parker, they're a bigger guy longer. Yeah. Humboldt State is in a part of California. Oh yeah, I've never even of north of Bakersfield. Maybe it's like four hours north of San Francisco. It's like basically Oregon. I didn't even know. It's the kids looks like Robert Gallery with his hair and all that, you know, in the stance and everything that humbold State almost lost their program. But good on

the boosters. Parker State Parker. Well, I like Parker though too. He's I have him higher rated than Kappa. That's why North Carolina A and T. Right. Okay, Dave, I'm sorry, go ahead on that. Ye have you have? You have Humboldt State higher than Parker? Uh? No, I have North Carolina A and T over North Carolina. Right. Quick question, Um, do you think at Humboldt State they serve their players Humboldt pie YEA or no? I think that the Jacks

sorry because their nickname the Jack. I got a question for you, Dane that you'll appreciate being the Ohio guy that you are and just just pretend like none of that happened. Yeah, I just did. Uh. Matt wants to know about Tae Kwon Lewis and Jalen Holmes and how they did, how you feel about them, where you put them, all that good stuff. Taekwon Lewis both Ohio State prospects. For those of you that don't know, Tayquan Lewis is

as reliable a defensive end as you could ask for. Um, he's not going to be the scream off the edge and uh, you know, really threatened the corner on every snap. But he can hold up versus the run, he can set the edge, and he can also play with power as a rusher. And he's not a bad athlete either. He's just not that, you know, explosive get off type of guy. But he's just a solid defensive endue. I think he's gonna have a long career in the NFL.

And then Holmes, here's a guy that was just buried on the death chart when you think of about the bosas being there, Hubbard Lewis, he had a tough tub of getting on the field A lot of times. When he got on the field, it was as an interior player, just to get the four best pass rushers out there. At the Senior Bowl, it was up and down. I thought he was one of those guys I wrote about going into the Senior Bowl, one of the ten storylines. I thought he had a chance to kind of step

out of that shadow. He didn't do it as much as I wanted, but I still think you saw the talent he got Will Hernandez on a pretty good rep one on one that showed off his skill set, which not many people got Will Hernandez this week, but Holmes did. So he had a solid week I think he You know, he's right there in the third fourth round range. I'll tell you with Lewis, though I liked him better on the game film playing as a tackle, it was a subtackle to be honest with. He did that ohouse state. Yeah,

I mean, here's the guy. He can knock people off balance. Your eyes powerful. He's a powerful guy, but he could also get knocked off a balance too. But I kind of like some of the work that he was able to do inside. I really did keep an eye on that Urban Meyer. He said there's three players that he's ever coached that stand out as the toughest he's ever coached, Tim Tebow, John Simon and Taykewe knows. Yeah, can I get Lewis at eighty one or is that too late? No?

I think he could. Yeah, I think he'll be there aday. See. It's tough because some teams really value just that consistency, like he's never gonna make a Pro Bowl's But some teams are not all gonna make Pro Bowls, right, and some teams are gonna reach for that upside. Some teams are okay with just a consistent type of player. And so yeah, I mean right now, I've got Lewis, where do I have him as a three four? So bring it on. He could be there at eighty one. Bring

it on. I'm really gonna put y'all on the spot here with a question from Ernie. Just y'all are gonna hate this, and I don't care. He wants to know how many wide receivers are out there that you think could help on day one. He's one of the draft Day one of not for this team, the day one for this team, like you draft him and they're playing a significant role immediately. Um, we know Calvin Ridley. I think we both agree that. Yeah, we do agree on Ridley. Um,

so we don't need to talk about him. I think the problem is are they going to beat out who's already in the roster? I know, well, I don't know Ernie, but if I had to guess, he's trying to get rid of Dez Bryant. He's just like by Dez R by eighty eight. So he's looking for one. Is what he's looking for is looking yeah or yeah or whatever a guy who's one of your top three receivers immediately, Which that's my whole thing about, you know, the disconnect

there is. I mean, unless Dez Bryant's not on the team, I don't see a guy who's gonna do that, unless you get maybe Calvin Riddley. You say, let's say the top three. Let me say ask you about receivers. Come back, what what? What about Miller from Memphis? I like Miller a lot. Miller's got the kind of fla to his game that I think they could translate well and I but I don't have him as high as I mean.

I'm just thinking about a guy Anthony Miller, that's right. Yeah, I'm thinking about a guy who's got some flare to his game, big playability. You know that you you plug him in, and yeah, these guys are gonna it happens every year, with the exception of of recently or a guy in New Orleans Thomas Michael Thomas. Yeah, he stepped in right off the jump. Well, it's it's tough I think of receiver. I mean, there's no depends on where

you go too. You got to play. You go to a place like Drew Brees throwing you the football is a lot different sure than you know. And even Dak Prescott, Yeah, exactly, that's not a knockoff exactly. So, I mean you could be you could be a guy that separates and does all this and all that. They gotta get you the football. It's hard to I mean I think of it. If you want a receiver who's gonna make a contract fusion immediately, I think you gotta get him in the top one

hundred picks. Which it's doable. It's doable. Yeah, Terrence Williams even which say what you will about him, but he was pick eighty. I think something him and third round somewhere. Yeah, he was pick eighty. I love to throw Jarvis Landry out there. He was picked seventy eight and he's set. He owns the NFL record for most receptions through his rookie contract or whatever. Then I mean, or you could draft a Laquon Treadwell twenty second overall, who has ten

catches in two years or whatever. Let me ask a question, say the Cowboys draft Michael Gallop into the second or third round, do you think he could beat out Terrence Willie Yes, day one, Yes, Okay, well there's one right there. Yeah, man, I'm looking. That's what I'm saying, Gallop. I have Gallop ahead of Miller, but I was just thinking about a receiver that might be that surprised guy you know Memphis,

think about guys you know that, Yeah, I'm DJ Moore. Yeah, I'm thinking probably six guys like just I mean, I see like Isaac Bruce from Memphis back in the day, second round pick, all sudden, he just comes in and is great player. Ridley? Who's our other Kirk? Ridley? Kirk more gallop um scouts about Kirk? Guys, weren't him jumping up and down like we were? I mean, I'm talking spots about their teams, not are not my guys? Are our guys that live in this building? What do we

talk about with Kirk? He lived in the slot, that's where he played. Can he go to the outside. Not Everyone is convinced in the NFL that he can just flawlessly make that move outside. That surprised me because I wanted to know about those receivers. Everybody loves more from Maryland because he's awesome. Yeah, everybody loves Ridley. Yeah, you know, and I was asking guys, you see Ridley there at nineteen and these guys were like, I don't think so, Brian,

I don't I don't think so. That's nicer than I thought it would be. Yeah, scouts love to answer your question with like a are you stupid? Kind No, No, they did, but they but when I asked him about Kirk, they were kind of the of the I don't know, Brian, I don't think so. I don't you know. I wouldn't go there. Wait, this is actually this is a great segue if we get to go to this one more question, Dave and I gotta get a break. Okay, well we'll just do it then, um protect the Star. Once an

NFL comparison for Christian Kirk, which have fun? M you got one? Brian? Is he? Is he a faster? Is he a faster Steve Smith? Size wise? I like? I like Dj Moore as the Steve Smith's I thought that's the one that we agreed on. But aren't they both kind of that five ten two hundred pound range? Once too? Twelve? Am I right about? What is more? Is more of a just to me? The physical say, is Christian Kirk is like physical as I'm just thinking about size wise comparisons? Yeah,

more is more of the bulkier guy kirkstick two hundred pounds? Yeah, well yeah, cut that out as a drop immediately more might be twenty pounds more than Kirk is. So yeah, I don't know. Kirk has to think about that to get a direct comparison for him. I don't know. It's it's tough because again, can you play outside. That's we're gonna just say. He's just compared him to a slot receiver. You know, that's a big, big part of his evaluation. I would take more over Kirk myself. There you go,

really I would. I wonder you're a Kirk. I like Kirk, but I mean I so it is more your number two receiver behind Ridley. I wonder about DJ Moore because I feel like by the time it's all said and done, it's early. Well, but I talk about a guy that played with some bad quarterbacks. I feel like the pat a pass from eight different quarterbacks over his creer. Yeah, I feel like we'll be talking about him as a first round guy by the should be all over. Yeah, Like,

didn't mix it right. Well, when this whole thing started, you're like, well, maybe you can get him at fifty. And I feel like by the time it's all over, it's like I would rather him than that notre Dame kid. When him at nineteen took Fuller. Yeah, well when you kind of when we finished the draft class, the Washington kid that Cincinnati took, I can't remember names anymore. John Ross, I know at school last year. I know top ten. So I'm saying I thought, that's one of those ones

where while it's happening, you're like, this is stupid. But hey whatever, Yeah, he had a rookie season to forget. So yeah, so it's a guy Minnesota. Did our guy have a rookie year to forget? Or was it just like he's had a career to forget so far? It was just a rookie year. It wasn't. I don't know. Are we talking about treadwell? No, oh no, I'm talking about Taco. Sorry, oh no, I'm about treadwell. I wasn't treadwell. Yeah, as a receiver, treadwells my it's two bad years back

to back. Tread well. That's tratulation. Now wear it around your neck. Treadwell hurts. But I don't think Taco had a rookie year to forget. Yeah, he just had a he had a year, all right, He just had a year. Thanks everybody that tweeted in questions. We appreciate it. As always, We're gonna take a break. Come back, we'll get into some more draft talk. Stay. Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your

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more than a fan. You are a member of Cowboys Nation, and so is at and T doing their part to keep you connected to America's team all season. Law AT and T is a proud member of Cowboys Nation. This is the Dallas Cowboys Com drafts. In football, Brian, often the quickest play is mixed with some good old fashioned ingenuity or the key to winning, kind of like Tommy John's horizontal quick draw fly. I've never read this one before. It's the most intuitive, simple and speedy feature that other

underwear brands words are difficult to go through. They just don't have those, They just don't have a brand. Tommy John's quick draw fly is really useful for those of you that want to know. Yeah, good point, good point, Tommy John read people. Uh, if you want to find out for yourself, you can shop exclusive Cowboys underwear Tommy john dot com forward slash Cowboys. I highly recommend it. It's great. It's comfortable. Yeah, quickly accessible, quickly accessible. Hey,

while we got we got about ten minutes here. I just want to on the on the page. Here, we've got a phone number eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. If you guys want to call in, get your question on the air live. If you didn't get it in on Twitter. On the two twenty. Maybe we can grab some calls here in the last ten minutes of the show again once again something the left corner of the of the box eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. Kent Garrison is handling.

That makes sure you're nice to Kent. Everybody's doing well and if he can just get your question, that will help us. We'll maybe get to a few more down the line. I want to get into you. You ranked though your top fifteen Senior Bowl performers, and that's the tape and all that stuff, and it wasn't just the top fifteen players, right, Yeah, I mean, and I want to get it because we there's some of these guys

we didn't get into. Yeah, and I'll focus on number fifteen if I could, okay, and that would be Isaiah. Get him? Yeah, it goes enough that works. Your confidence was not very impressive. I mean, no, get him? I think is how you pronounce that? Yeah, I was trying to listen to how they said that. Why I a D O M. Boston Boston College. I do like the player. I'll tell you why I liked the player because I felt like he was the one guy in the one on one coverages that always got his head around. Yeah,

and from press, from press. Yeah, he's a long, rangy guy, that seven thirty two and yeah, quarter in charms. And I'll tell you what. I liked him because of how he played with his eyes. Yeah. You know, a lot of these guys don't find the ball. You can't make a play on the ball if you don't look for it and the ball going down the field. He made those plays. I'm glad you put them in there. Well, that's exactly why he saw a patient feet and press.

The ability to turn run hip to hip with receivers down the field and then after saying yeah, turn your head, locate the ball and try to make a play. I mean, that's that's something that showed up routinely during practice. So I thought he helped himself. We talked about Sean Hamilton, he's number fourteen. We talked about Alex Kappa from the tackle from Humboldt State. Didn't look out of place, did

not look out of place at all. We talked about Brandon Parker, offensive tackle North Carolina, A and T. We talked a little bit, Hey, but you I want to get in a little bit more about Treyvon Henderson, the strong safety from Hawaii. Yeah, like I said, he impressed me, moving in reverse, going up against tight ends. I had a little bit of that secondary burst when he was closing on routes so he can make a play on

the ball. He just he looked comfortable in what he was doing, and on the Hawaii tape, I didn't always see that, especially in coverage and then downhill, coming to balance, rapping, finishing tackles. Now, that obviously is harder to see during practice, but you saw it in the game. So he earned his place. Henderson did on this list, and he's one of those guys where you're going back to the tape

and saying, Okay, what did I miss? Make sure you're watching more games, just trying to do more work on him. Super excited to hear that because I think I've said before it seems like the scouting report on every safety is like, what's great going downhill and tackling? Yeah, I don't know about going backward right. I want to say, no, you need guy that could play in the back end. Find me in safety who looks comfortable in coverage. Number

ten Jalen Samuel's running back North Carolina State. I don't think there's any question that Rashad Penny is the best ball carrier that we saw in Mobile. But in terms of if you're a team that wants to do everything, guy, block, catch the ball in the backfield, Jalen Dames might be a guy more so than Penny. Well, I was thinking about my LSU guy being that guy. Well, he belongs to the conversation too. Yeah, I like Samuel's better. Yeah, but Daryl Williams. Aryl Williams at LSU was missus, Dave,

I don't care what you say. Well, but I don't think it's that he was a missus. He was miss used. He shouldn't have played over guys. No, but you know, come up with some things creatively to the showcase. I think that the coaches, I think the coaches of the Bronco coaches did a better job of showcasing things he could do catching the football. You're saying, letting him play wildcat quarterbacks not creative enough for you. No, I'm talking

about things that he could do as running back. He's he's vastly underrated through no fault of his own, because it's hard to take away, it's hard to give him touches when Leonard Fournett and Darius guys for the guys in front of him, He's just gonna be the latest. But Samuel Samuel a complete guy, your completer guy does everyone. He played tight end in college, he played, he split out and played wide receiver. He lined up in the backfield.

He does everything, and he does it well. No linebacker could stick with him during uh, with his routes as a pass catcher. And that's not necessarily surprising because we saw him do it weekend week out at NC State. Yeah again, I'm looking forward. I need to see I need to see him. Uh. We talked about the DJ Chark a little bit, what he was able to do and helped himself. He's sure he helped himself get into

a number eight DeShawn hand defensive lineman Obama Alabama. It wasn't always consistent, but it's when he won that made you go oh wow, Yeah, it made you kind of sit up in your seat a little bit. Especially he was one of the few, one of the old only ones to be Isaiah win the entire week. Yeah. Uh. And he did it with power, did it with just stubborn hands. Uh, quickness, DeShawn Hands a guy that at Alabama didn't necessarily get a chance to just get after it.

You know, he had certain responsibilities that didn't allow him to kind of show his full skill set. So I thought he'd helped himself. Deshaun Hand did during the week of practice. I put himself in that top one hunter conversation. Yeah, I liked him. I like how physical. He was, very physical, I mean, and with the quickness too. I mean, big guy and powered him. Yeah, and he's a little bit

of a tweeter. He's only two hundred and eighty two pounds, but I think that he looked big and when the number nine, yeah, it looked kind of funny on him. But the quick I mean he looks square. The way he played, I'll play him inside, I'll play him out. Yeah, that's would be that big defensive end. Yeah, I'm inside. Gives him pass rush quickness to him and gaps right, he can play insider outside. Okay, bring it on. Got Griffin from US from CF. He had to make the

list again. He's gonna get favorite player. I guess my pet cat fourth round. I have fourth round grade on. He'll get drafted. He'll play on special teams for a long time. Play him in sub package. He's gonna be a solid pro. That's gonna be the narrative. It's gonna be for him. No, I mean, hey, that's I'll be interested to see how things work out at the at the whole thing with the Combine. He needs to be there. He'll be there. He needs to be there, he needs

to be working out. Teams need to get closer to this kid. Do you think that he wouldn't be for some reason? Well, it's this according to Mike Mayock, that he hadn't been hadn't received an invitation yet, he'll be there. It's a month away. Now, let's hope he does get it. It feels like such. I'm giving him your invitation if you don't. Hey, no, I wasn't invited. First of all, I applied for a credential. There's a difference. We can get him a credential with the Dallas Cowboys dot Com

staff of that love to have him around. It's it's a winner. I feel like there's a shorter gap usually between the Senior Bowl and the Combine because it's a solid month away, so we'll give us more time to look at some more tape. Sure James Washington, wide receiver, Oklahoma at number six. Now we get into the top five. Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma, number five. We've talked about him a little bit. Our Oklahoma defensive end outside linebacker okawom run got Oka Runquell and I gotta come up like I

gotta come up with a nickname. We say Cheeto instead of exactly how to come up with Yeah, exactly, we'll get we'll get to all that. But he's number four. Will her Nandez the darling number three. Now this is what Now, this is where it gets really interesting for me. In Dane's numbers. At number three he has will Hernandez, and at number one he has Isaiah Winn. So two of his three best players from the Senior Bowl were guards.

I think that probably jives with what people were saying all week though, I mean, and Nathan Shephard, the defensive tackle from Fort Hayes, was number two, and I'm I mean, I feel like Hernandez kind of came in with a little bit of hype, like so he was pushing Win. But I feel like when he might be, he's probably right. I think Win was not that he's not a good player. I think he was more of a surprise in terms of what people expected to see from him. At least

that's my perspective. I take either one of those guys, but I think when there's something about Win, he's so good. I was mapping out, mapping out my top fifty players. He came at number twenty one. There you go. He just I mean, you run out of reasons why you shouldn't like him. And he practiced this entire week with a torn labor He's having surgery this week. Oh wow. Yeah, So he's just he's just a darn good player. And again we saw it a left tackle all this year.

Uh you know he's gonna move inside the guard. He just he rarely got beat. You see the quickness, you see the technique, You see the power the hips give me Isaiah win and see and that's not anything against will her Nandez, because will her Nandez had a great week himself. The power of the quickness, he gets off balance a little bit, and that's what kind of that's why he's at three and not number one. When he

got off balance, defenders are able to beat him. But well, her Nandez, he cemented himself as a top fifty guy. Where it is that the Cowboys met with her Nandez at a senior Bowl, they should better trade up. Wait, well, I'm glad you said that. I mean I think both those tackles, I mean that both those guards go in the top twenty. No, I'd be surprised because I think Win has a chance. Again, there's not twenty five better

players in this draft than Isaiah Win. You just oh, but you just said you think Winn has a chance. You just said the Cowboys had to trade up to get to her Nandez. I met in the second round. Oh yeah, somewhere in the thirties. I understand. Yeah, if you how far would you drop back to take Win? Not far? I mean mid twenties. Yea's what I'm saying. How how where's that line? Yeah, we got to figure that out. What if you just, hey, just pull a

twenty thirteen and drop from nineteen to thirty one. And if you do that, then you're taking her Nandez and bagally you get a better pick out of it than you did that or the five spot drop would be would be uh, Georgia, m a ten to fifteen drop? How did they only get a third round pick. That was one of the few concerns I heard about Hernandez also was the guy and this is from Scouts, um as a guy that struggled to qualify at bigger schools,

you test it on him. Some are questioning, you know, how long is it gonna take from to understand the playbook and you know that kind of thing. So that's that's the question that he'll have to answer during interviews. And so he still has will Hernandez has room to improve and he can still impress teams between now and the pro day and the workouts and all that. Yeah, real quick, I mean we've established Quentin Nelson is line one. These are the next two best parts. Yeah, watch the giants.

Watch the giants drop back and take him. And where do they giants? Yeah, giants or they could take him. Watch watch the giants. Where do they rank among tackle too? Though, because other than the Oklahoma kid be all over the mount this doesn't feel like a very strong tackle class. Connor William Orlando Brown, It's gonna be all over them. It is, Okay, I hear the music. That's all the time we got. Hey, folks, thanks so much for joining

a song in the Draft Show. From a Scout Stain Brugo, David Helmet, K Garrison, Executive to do Signed Brian Bross. We'll see you Thursday at eleven am Central. From more the Draft Show. Take to hear