Draft Show: Rolling Along

I did? Yeah, it was really great, just letting y'all handle all the free agency madness, every all of the anger and angst. And that was a pretty well timed vacation. I'm not mad about it. I'm not mad about it. How are we doing? Brian doing great? Just kind of banging through these guys. Man, this you're gonna wake up one day and it's going to be the Draft. Yeah, tell me about it. It's much twenty second and then that's what's crazy about this. And you know you're getting

the pro days knocked out. These quarterbacks are all going this week Texas A and m Rolls with a couple of guys that you're gonna have Coach is probably interested in. So, yeah, it's a it's a good week. I'll give you you know what, we'll play choose our own adventure today because there's a few things I want to hit you kind of alluded to it right there. We can start with sort of a Pro day wrap up, because there's actually a decent amount of things happening in the world of

Pro days right now. Or we can sort of look at what the Cowboys have done since y'all were last on the air in terms of free agency and how that affects our thoughts on the draft. What would you rather do first, We're gonna do both. Yeah, talk about your football team. Okay, talk about your football teams because that might carry you to what you might do in the future. Which it's actually I can hear. I can hear the eye rolls from here about how significant the

moves are. But it was a busy few days for the Cowboys getting pretty involved. Literally right after y'all go off the air on Thursday, they start adding James Washington, Dante Fowler come on from outside the team. They bring back Layton vander esh on a one year deal. Yesterday we find out that Jay Curse is also back on a two year deal. So primarily defensive signings, addressing some of the problem spots on the defensive side of the ball, also adding a third receiver to go behind Michael Gallup

and Ceedee Lamb. How and for my money, this is this is quintessential Cowboys in the sense that most of these guys are going to fail your hole the holes on your roster without changing your draft strategy. You're not going to go away from somebody in the draft because James Washington is here. I assume that's how y'all see it, but I don't know. Take me through it. How do you feel about these guys? I kind of think that the three guys you signed Vandresh, Washington and Fowler could

all be replaced with draft picks. This is the Will McClay. I'm going to protect myself going in. I'm not married to any one of these guys. If Dan Quinn somehow magically makes Fowler play really well, then say Washington fits into what they're trying to do in the room, then

you know, maybe that's the possibility of those guys. But this is right, This is the Cowboys just protecting themselves in case things don't work out like they need to in the draft, and Fowler is very Cowboys where it's former top five pick has had NFL success, but for two years he hadn't been a good NFL player and so hey, but he's going with dan Quinn now, and so he's gonna be Dorance Armstrong, I think is clearly like starting over Dante Fowl. I left out Dorrence. I'm sorry,

good good called Dorance Armstrong also agreeing to come. That's going to be a rotation, but yeah, Armstrong would be that number one in that road time. I think a lot of people hear the name Dante Fowler and it's like, heck, yeah, dude, we got our other starting defensive end. And I'm like, hey, I don't think you did. I think you got a fun, athletic speed rusher that at one time was really effective. And that one time was three and four years ago.

So he's not too old to still be good at football. So there's reason for optimism. But you did not get at a top two defensive end on your team. Now. This is this is dan Quinn doing a great job last year bringing guys on and so Will's asking him, Hey, Dan, what do you think Fowler's out there? You have any interested Yeah, I know the kid. I could probably help him. This is where you, like last year, we weren't talking

about curse. The curse signing was. We were thinking all the bad safeties that they'd always signed and this wasn't going to work. I know when Jeff and I were doing radio together, it was more about, well, this is a special teams guy. This is a guy though maybe a special teams guy. You know, if he had to play safety, you were going to be like, oh my god,

what's he doing out there? Kind of thing. So this is your hope that maybe Dan Quinn continues the magic of picking guys that he formally had and then making it work and to continue the hope train. I think James Washington's kind of the same thing. Yeah, James Washington is a guy that trying. I'm really trying, Kyle, maybe you can help me out. You're a pro broadcaster more than I am. Okay, I'm trying to find a way to be nicer about saying he's never been a good

NFL player like James Washington. You're right, that's not very nice. He's been. He's been, he's been on a roster mediocre along the way, right, that's the best way to put it. So, like James Washington, however you want to measure it for NFL receiver play has not been good. But where you would draw hope if it was like, Okay, he's going to be the Cowboys third receiver, then you would be leaning on I think, well, I remember in college he's not a burner, but he was a really good deep threat,

Like he made plays down the field. He was in Pittsburgh with an old man whose arm was shot, and so you can, like you can rationalize your way to thinking he could be decent here, but he's not. I don't think he's a starter on your team. No, I think you're drafting one. Jeff's right. I mean, he's never developed a game underneath. There's never been a shorter intermediate game to him. You know when you talk to the guys that pro evaluators around the league and they say,

sometimes he doesn't even catch the ball deep. Now you know that's thing again, This is this is a this is one of those signings inexpensive if it doesn't work, if the fifth receivers six receivers better that you found Boom, you move on. I'm also I can't help but think about the fact that the Steelers are gods at finding receivers, like they're so good at it. You go back to Antonio Brown at least for a season, or Mike whatever. I'm just hey, I go on, went back to Hines Ward, Okay, fine,

Santonio Holme. Santonio was a pretty quick Claypool. Deante Johnson is doing it for them, went to a Pro Bowl this year. I'm just say he's a third round pick. He was drafted after as the league's fault. He told him he was drafted after James Washington. That's all I'm saying on one of my hits. I'm just saying the fact that he has avoweds people were looking for in a place like Pittsburgh is interesting to me, not that

he can't find it here. He was on the back end of a career of Ben Roethlisberger, though He's never had a quarterback at least in his prime enough like Dak Prescott to be able to push it down field exactly, and neither could Mason Rudolph either. So either one of

those guys couldn't find it. This This plays into where I wanted to go next, because I think if I'm if I'm stacking it, you look at the names we all just said, if I'm stacking it, receiver still looks to me like the position most in need of a draft pick. Of the they haven't signed a guard. I'm talking about like the guys that they the positions that they have addressed. Yeah, I mean right now, and there's still plenty of time left to sign a veteran guard.

Right now, that left guard spot just looks like hilarious. It's a blinking red light in terms of what they might want to do in the draft. But so receiver to me still looks like a problem spot even with Washington. For me, safety, knowing that jay Ron Curse and Malie Cooker are both back here on multi year deals, not saying you couldn't draft one, but I'm sort of looking

away from that. And as a guy who just said that James Washington's never been good and Dante Feller hasn't been good for more than two years, uh, I think potentially you can be good at safety. Like Malie Cooker was coming along better as the season went along, and playing Jayron Curse was great, but I guess the league didn't buy into his one year sample size, and so you got him on a great bargain. You might be

really good on the back end. When's the last time that we've sat here, legitimately a month away from the draft looking at these positions of need and you haven't had a secondary position really up at the top of the list at All Woods been a long Roy Williams and whatever the corners were. Maybe I will take Stingley if he comes rolling down, I see. But that's kind of the same thing with anything here is if the right player is there, don't go away from your board

picked the best player there. I do think they're short and free agency still they need to sign a guard because I don't think you can sell yourself or your fan base on McGovern because you tried to, tried to like it was a we benched a guy, so you're up, buddy, and then a couple weeks later like never kidding, I'm just about that. I haven't any to sign a guard. They could sign a linebacker. You're still short their depth wise.

But outside of that, feel draft, I don't feel like I don't feel good Darius Smith I think is an official yet, but I mean he tweeted out a quote from the Purple People leaders, so I feel like he's probably if I'm not comfortable with what they're they're starting defensive ends. Like if you play a numbers game, you could go, Okay, my starters are tank endurance, I have Golston Basham Fouler. You're almost there. Kind of there. You're forgetting a piece of this that I think is important.

He doesn't play in just talking about the MICA's name Michael Parsons, so I guess he's six edges. Like in theory, you could go knowing that Micah has that potential. Yeah, I kind of feel fine. I'm not saying it's great. I'm definitely not is like your standard d N and then it's like, hey, we're rushing the pastor and excuse me, Mike is basically yeah, I'm going to point out a concern we all should have and when it comes to this guard position is the fact that the scouts really

really pushed for McGovern. I mean that grade was a one to one. Yeah, that's the top of a second round grade. The offensive line coach wanted nothing to do with him. Now you're in a position where who is going to win this battle? Is Philban gonna win the battle over the scouts? So the scout's going to feel scarred that they pushed a guy that Philbin didn't like. And then all of a sudden, now you're ine, That's

what I'm saying. Philan wasn't here when Connor McGovern was drafted. No, but he but he's but he saw that he got to work with the player. Yeah, you know, he basically you know, he got to put the player in there and then basically then pulled the guy to the point where you know, well he's he could basically say also, I'm using the word basically a lot. But he says, you know, all right, Scouts, I showed you the guy can't play. You want me to You want me to

put another guy in there? You wan to play with somebody else. I'm gonna put put Connor, put Connor Williams back in there. This is where I worry a little bit about such an important position that there might be the biggest divide. Well that you Philbin's at the pro day of your next left guards. It's a beautiful say. If they don't like Green seriously, if they don't like green, if that's if that's in fact, maybe scoot on over

to Boston College. Let's know, that's what I'm saying. I worry a little bit because all of a sudden, the scouts are thinking, like, we're gonna we like this guy. Phillipin's like, you guys blew the McGovern pick, you know, and so all of a sudden, now there's there's doubt and Jerry Jones mind like, Okay, which way is this room going? Right now? That's not a bad point. Somebody, somebody criticized me recently because I said Connor mcgoverney, it's fair.

I said, Connor McGovern has been a disappointment since he got drafted, and they were like, well, he was like pick ninety, how could you you know? He was? No, They're great on him, was a high and I I set back was like, look, I get that he was a late third round pick, but the hype on this guy was that like the league had made this terrible mistake letting him fall to that spot. We just used Jason Garrett's pet phrase blinking red light, and that hasn't

been the case. So that does make me curious and so Joe Philbin is at he's in college station right now, right along with add and Dirty, a lot of prospects down there for them to look at. Between the two of them. What do you think that process looks like, Well, Joe Philbin looking at Kenyon Green and being like, okay, this is the guy. They all a yeah. And to Jeff's point, then this is where you know, Philbin, this is my experience of being in that room. Coaches carry

a lot of weight. And so what happens is when it comes down to scouts might be pushing for Zion Johnson, someone like, well, you know, we worked out to Zion Johnson and we really like him a lot, and he can do this, and he could play tackle, and he could do you know, all those things. And you know, Philbin might say, no, Green's a better player, and then the scouts say, well, he's not athletically a testing a better player. You know, what do you want? How do

you want to play your guys? Joe? What we've learned about you is you like the guys to have a little mobility and a little you know. And so there's going to be an argument there and it might turn to the point where they don't. You know, we'll see does do they end up with the guy that Joe Philbin liked or the guy that the scouts like, and maybe maybe they'll like the same guy. Maybe it will

be the same guy. But you've got a little doubt now on my mind because that that you know, they they the scouts loved, loved, you know, loved you know, the guard governor McGovern and Joe's like, nah, not so much. How uncommon is it for there to be like wide disagreements about like first round caliber players, you know, like, I get it if you're arguing about a guy down the line, but one of these guys that you're most of the draft community agrees is like a top thirty pick.

You guys don't have you have a guard in the first round? Designed Johnson the first round guard for you guys. Yeah him angry? Okay there too. Okay, So you guys got first round grades on those guys. So to me, if that's the case, that will be interesting that the debate. I don't know, we'll see if they have first round grades on both those guys. But to me, I kind of feel like though that you know, and I know

in this organization you know, the coaches went down. We've seen the drafts before with the Tristan Hills and the Tacos and people like that. Coaches went out here and it's been that way for a long, long long time. You know. Mike McCarthy's now on the road scouting. He never had to scout in his life, you know, in Green Bay. But he's also probably looking at the situation, like, hmm, the thing about replacing me with dan Quinn. Dan Quinn's out there every day. Maybe I should get my big

erer out there and do some scouting. Let me get some of these Pennsylvania kids. Yeah, well he's no, he's sitting penn State. You know, his schedule is like Penn State. Now he's think he's going to Old Miss Pittsburgh, you know, yeah those are both on Thursday. Yeah, So I mean he's he's you know, he's trying to get out there because again, we give dan Quinn a lot of credit for the way this defensive side of the ball was shaped.

Speaking of pro days, speaking of defensive side of the ball, probably, I mean, we can hit Kenny Pickett's hand size if y'all want to. He got bigger baby his hands magically drew a Yeah. Right, But the big development coming from the pro day circuit is a crappy one, unfortunately. But David Najavo the Michigan Edge towards Achilles during his workout, I kinda I hate how callous it is to immediate you know, this is this is a life altering injury,

and they're taking him at fifty six. That's all right, I mean that's where I'm going. Four kids, has lost a lot of money. Jeff doesn't know how to be nice, so just take me there. Poor guy just lost a decent amount of money. Uh. It takes I think it takes a pretty severe injury to draft to drop your draft stock. Because even you remember Jeffrey Simmons the defensive tap and he still went like eighteenth overall with the torn acl and he got out there for some of

his rookie year, blown out Achilles in March. You're probably red shirting. Yeah, it was a pretty good time to play. You're not going to play that. You're not that guy at the Rams. Yeah, so you're probably not going to play. Yeah. And in David Ojabo's situation especially, I view him as a guy that is a rookie would have been a Hey,

it's time to rush the quarterback, go in there. Yeah, not necessarily a let's go play, so right, I think he's a designated pass rusher who's going to develop as an edge guy who now is going to miss his rookie year. So I think his range just went from fifteen to twenty five to thirty five to sixty And that's I think you're exactly right. And I hate it for him because that was the thumbnail on him to begin with, was raw guy, not ready, not a lot

of football. Yeah, and that explosiveness is the one way that he consistently wins. And Achilles like an acl I go and Achilles at least partially raise an eyebrow, like, are you going to fully get that back? Because he needs everything he had back. I just and I hope not honestly, I hope he gets drafted in the first round. That just sup. Everyone goes first overall, but everybody has fun. I wonder if the slide could be kind of significant

because of that, because it's absolutely Jeffrey. Jeffrey Simmons is a perfect example where it's like, when this guy's ready again, he's going to be a stud whereas they were already have five picks, right, But I do think o Job was going to slide twenty five. This is a chance he even slides a little bit more than that, because of the way, like you just outlined it, because of the questions that we're already surrounding him in his player profile, as he could fall into the third and I wouldn't

be ultimately surprised. I'd be a little disappointed. I hope he didn't pick him at fifty six, that's true, which I would like to do. So you, knowing, knowing how we feel about how the Cowboys spend their free you're drafting a guy at fifty six that's not going to help you this year, all freaking that's the scout. If you're all freaking day, what if you're wide receivers? There

your sky More? Yeah maybe mine sky Moore's back. No. No, I'm saying though, because you're gonna be a sky More reference. See that's what I'm saying, though, I mean to me, to me, it's with the Bingo card. Somebody get bingo.

We're playing that game. There's people on Twitter that were like they were count no, but I was just I was just curious because to me that you know, maybe that's your situation where all of a sudden, you you know, you you draft a defensive player in the first you know, when those linebackers or somebody like that defense whoever, and then you turn on the second round you're thinking, man, look at all these receivers here, and now you're you're comparing, like, Okay,

you know a kid that's not going to play at all for you this year? Yeah, I don't. I don't. You know, if I'm Mike McCarthy and my job is on the line quote air quotes, then I'm not interested in having red shirt guys for somebody else. Six is our George Picking spot. You know what I'm saying. Oh yeah, that's a valid criticism of the way the Cowboys do this. As again, Jason Garrett off ten years can do this.

A guy who has some questions about you know, a guy on staff, there's a guy sitting and broadcasting, and there's a guy on staff that potentially could get the job, and forget about I don't have time for red shirt and people forgive Mike McCarthy's job security for a second. Like the way the Cowboys build this up some players they're like, they're like, yeah, we're gonna do just enough in free agency, and then when we just knocked the

draft out of the park, we'll get better. Well, if you're drafting a red shirt guy, you're not getting better, Like, you're not progressing the roster this year. It might be great two years from now, but who's got time for that. It makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense for them to draft this kid because the general manager's not going anywhere. Yeah, that is I mean, that's why the Cowboys have this reputation. Sure, that's why they draft hurt players, because because the front

office is not going anywhere. God, the the symmetry of drafting David Dajabo after an achilles tare at fifty six, the year that Randy Gregory, former sixtieth over all pick, finally is no longer under contract, that would be That would be really fitting. They had to cut Smith's leg off on the field literally about thirty four on a non premium position. You are not run all right, I'm getting sad, So before we do that, let's just take a break and then fan questions, We'll be right back.

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that Liberty tax dot com. That's that's the best advice you can give anybody here. All right, it's the second segment of the show. You know what that means, Chris, can you help me? I love this question from Sam, so I guess this. This happened last week. We are aware of this. But the Cowboys did get two extra compensatory picks in addition to the pick that they got for Kicker. Time to go get punt God, we got

a package to move up. Sam wants to know realistic things you can do with the fives, which I actually all the way to threes. You get you get a three for you're so damn prepared, Bran. I took the liberty of finding the point values. And we know no two charts are the same. But the four fifth round picks are worth twenty eight, twenty three, nineteen, and a little less than nineteen. You are right. If you add all of that together, it is worth a low third

round pick. There you go. Is that really feasible? Like? Would would? Would anybody take? Like nobody's trading away from a guy? Rams would? Yeah? The Rams might? You're right, Rams, Like, shoot, we're gonna trade all of our high picks for superstar players. We're gonna pay them, We're gonna backload deals, We're gonna move money around. We're gonna draft three starters with eight day three picks. It doesn't seem super realizing. It doesn't seem super realistic, though, cal Ram, you get the Rams

third round pick and pick punt guard. The Rams have a compensatory pick at one oh four in the third back into the third. It's the next to last picks the third round. I'm only halfway joking. I'm just sorry. Adda Raisa might go in the third round. I think he probably will. Like if you wanted to move up from your four, if you wanted to, like just watching,

there's a punter that might be of you. Even when you're going and you're grabbing all of those fifth round picks where you would probably take a kicker or a punter either either way, you're bundling it up and then going just outside the top one hundred to take a punter, regardless matters. He's a third punter, eighty yard punt. He's a phenomenal punny. You go three and out touchback. You also had a pro bowler that you could bring back at some point. Well, he cost money. He cost five

million dollars a matter raise, it would cost like six hundred. Okay, if that's the case, then yeah, I'm going to get punt guard. But we need to hold on to one of our fifths so that we can pick a kicker. That's what I'm saying. I would go, I would shoot this thing back to back punter, and then I boom hit that kicker right behind it. If anything, we have

joined at the hip from then on out. I I doubt I always Actually we said it all last year though, it's like they're not going to make all eleven of those picks, and they did definitely do. But I laying toward thinking like they'll use they'll use two of these picks to like move up into the four if like they did for Tyler Biadas something like third round. You're in the third round and you've picked a whatever, You've picked a guard, and then you picked a wide receiver.

You're in the third round. There's a linebacker you like, you don't think he's gonna make it to your third round pick. You throw them a five. You move up three or four spots, you pick your guy. If you're if you're really good at this and pro personnel, you would identify a backup offensive lineman and another team and offer one of those fifth round picks and then take it that way and then that way you don't have to worry about potentially the guard in the early rounds.

I'm saying, like, right now, like it over the couple of words, you could do a draft weekend quenta five. Yeah, right, it was the six that went to a five. Maybe you could find a team exactly is already thinking about Bryce Young and c J. Strouge like Atlanta and maybe Houston, and like, do you guys have an aging starting guard? Yeah, that's good. See that I don't want to win. That's

what I would do. I mean, maybe knock this thing out with one of those fivesco and get you the guard and then boom and then you don't have to potentially worry about as much going into the draft. Oh that would be. That would be smart, smart draft and smart personnel. I used to do this a long time ago, flip for I would try two year old guard. I would try my best, I really would. Corey wants y'all to analyze the depth of the receiver class versus the

depth of the O line class. Again, I think it's good and good, very obvious what people are zeroing in on in terms of big picks. Guard at guard. I don't like it as much outside of the first round as I like wide receiver outside of the first round. But both of them, like you're gonna find step in starters and the third round at both positions, I think

so like. I don't think there's a drastic difference, but there's wide receiver goes ten deep of guys I really like, and guard goes two to three deep that I really like. So I think wide receiver is deeper with your top fifty six picks, because there's at least ten guys that I would take at fifty six at play wide receiver, I get to a total of maybe four guards you're comfortable picking in the top fifty six. Yeah, that's probably

about right. I'm looking depth wise too, and out of the top one hundred, I have sixteen offensive linemen in the top one hundred, whereas wide receiver, I have sixteen wide receivers in the top one hundred. So I mean that's a great question because at least in terms of what I'm looking at, it's dead even in between the two. I still lean toward thinking you'd be better off addressing

the line earlier. And this is this is dependent on what they do in free agency obviously, but yeah, you're gonna have to go grab Williams are just gonna be green, Johnson, Ingram, You're gonna have to go grab one of those guys. And I think I think early and then the wide receivers I think stretches a little bit deeper, you know, I mean, the chance to get a plug and play guy is going to have to go early as opposed

to going later. Along this line of reasoning, Bill wants to know if Kenyon Green's guard tackle flex gives him any sort of edge, like the fact that he played for positions. Ingram did the same thing, Zion Johnson did the same thing. Yeah, you know, no, does that? Are you saying that because you don't think he can play tackle in the NFL? Or see, I think he could.

I think if you were playing in a football game and your left tackle rolled his ankle, your right tackle tweaked a hammy, and your swing tackle broke a toe, could Kenyon Green go play tackle and survive in the NFL? Yes, I think she's going to point out that that has kind of happened here. Yeah, over the last couple of years about that Steelers game right now. If that bumps a guy up for you, fine, But like I think Kenyan Green is going to step in and be a

quality starting guard in the league. And if he stepped in as a tackle, he would struggle. So like it ain't Zack Martin. Zack Martin could line up wherever you want right now and make a Pro Bowl. I think Kenyon Green is an NFL guard. I think he could say the same thing about Zion Johnson. He's a guard. At the same time, I mean it's he has position flex. And there is some sort of modern day NFL value to players with position flex, but at least on the

offensive line, I don't really have any interested. Man. I used to think that position flex was good and important. It means you can't do either, yeah, I mean, and just you know, or you're a Hall of Famer. Yeah, like Micah Parsons and Zach Martin have position flex. Yeah they can go do you can? There's certain positions where you know, but you talk about an offensive lineman that has position flex, you're kind of like going and let's like you say it's Zach Martin. But otherwise you go, oh, man,

he's really a good center. Now, I mean I would say I would I would say Connor Williams has position flex. He could probably play center, he could probably play guard, he could probably play cycle. But doing it with you and watched him do all that in a pro whenever they did at a training camp, that was saying, hey, maybe we could slide a guy in at left guard, because if he was really good, they did ab caliber at left guard. That's the problem they didn't the move.

I think for the most part, it's a lie. Like, for instance, Connor McGovern might be an NFL starter, he really he might be sure at right guard. Yeah, connorc govern's not even a left guard. Yeah, he can't even play both guards. Terrence Steele is a starting right tackle. Yeah, my guy can't play left tackle. So, like we create this thing in our head where offensive line is offensive line for the vast majority of these guys, it's not. They can play a spot. Terrence is a right tackle. Connor,

unfortunately is a right guard. He can't play there because Zach Martin exists. I think position flex is made up. Most of the time, you're talking yourself into something. I think. I think you're trying to be going to read he's right, You're trying to give yourself a reason to take the guy. Yeah, and he's the forty eighth player on your roster, and you're going, is there somebody better out there that we

can find? Is there somebody? And then you play him, and then you really realize that a first round guard can play tackle in college football. Yeah, a first round center could play tackle in college football. And it fels different now. I think it's real, but I think you're right that it's very overstated. It is. You give me a that's great at one, it's a nice buzzword. It's a nice buzzword to make us feel good about a player. Yeah, I agree with that. SR wants to know if you recall,

their first six picks were all on defense. Last year, they've primarily focused on the defensive side of the ball and free agency this year. Are we seeing them tip their hand for a very offensive heavy draft and we're sitting here given a lot of breath to offensive line and receiver. So it makes me wonder if maybe yes, I think in the first two rounds, yes, but it's

still wide open. I don't think you're gonna see the first six picks were all off the board and it's all gonna be on the offensive side of the football because of the will that too. But you look at the value of where this draft lines up, and it lines up value wise at offensive line and wide receiver. So why would you not take advantage of that by taking either one of those positions in the first two rounds. I think if you took it to the extreme of

like trying to make the case of how offensive. Could it be if the top two guards were gone and Tyler Linderbaum wasn't and they liked him. They could take a center in the first round. They could take a guard in the second round, they could take a receiver in the third round, and maybe where they take a tackle or tight end in the fourth round, like it could happen. I would bet three of their first four picks or offense. I think I completely agree. I would

put money on that. Really, if you look at a depth chart, the only position and again I'm not saying it's like rock solid, but the only position that I'm looking at on defense where I'm like, oh, I don't I don't know if you want to play a game with what you got here linebacker, linebacker probably linebacker sort Other than that, I think you can roll the ball out and play football with the rest of what you have on defense, unless you had injuries. It said, well,

I'm a quambo, I guess technically is your fourth safety? Yea, they still can do it. I think they're in a situation right now too that if I'm Jerry Jones, I walk in that draft and say, listen, you m f first, I don't want to hear anything about offensive players unlisten helps Dak okay. And you tell me, you guys line this thing up however you want to do it. But if it doesn't help Dak, I don't want to hear about it, okay. And if you want to fight the

defense on players, it better help Dak okay. So to me, I just think that that that you know Quinn is going to I don't want Dan Quinn to like do what Rod Marinelli did and roll over on some guys. Yeah, oh no, we Zeke's fine, Yeah it was. Zeke will help us, you know. No, I want Dan fighting for defensive players. It's hard. I mean, I get what you're saying, but I trust the defensive side finding players better than

I do this offensive side. Right now, Robby Ironelly didn't roll over very often, like he got He rolled over on a love he did he but he rolled over on the runner. He did on ramsey Y and the guys that he he could kind of push away, or the guys that he already had in the room. He totally rolled over. Rod Marinelli was a beast, that man. While we were doing live coverage of the draft, oh one of them, we went to break and he goes, come with me, man, and I said, coach, we have

literally four minutes and he's like, come quick, all right. Yeah, he wanted to take us to his office to show us a picture of his high school coach. He said, No, Rod Murnoi is an awesome man. I'm not even but I'm just saying though, if you're if you're talking about what goes on in a war room, yeah, these coaches have influence. Oh of course, you know, And that's why I'm scared about the Joe Philmin thing because to me,

he moved on from Lyle Collins. Yeah, he moved on to Thinking and Steel played well for eight games last year. He really did? You won like six games of him playing. Yeah, So I mean to me that that says something. But you know, I'm I'm like a Sam Jerry Jones. If you're talking about offensive guys, it better help number four. Well, I was just going to ask to back end off of that. Do you think that it's going to be

offensive heavy then early on? No? I just get I mean, you know, I could say, I think you're you have to keep an open especially when you're picking. You have to keep an open mind about it. But to me. Like I said, if you start talking about a first round wide receiver, or if you start talking about a guard, you start talking about you know, the various a tackle whoever, it better be with the mind of this guy's going to plug in. He's going to play and he is

going to be a difference maker. I don't have time for my quarterback to waste another year for development, because if it doesn't work out for him here next year, I'm gonna have a whole new coaching staff again. Probably and now and now now, the clock is really ticking on Dak Prescott, whether you really want to keep him around. Can we get Brian in the war room? Can we figure it out? He spent time there. I'm just saying that,

but this year he's got it right. Brian doesn't have a filter, and sometimes you have to have a filter and being well, sir, if that's what you want to do. And Brian's like that guy can't play, that you shouldn't. You're gonna pick him. He can't play. I just want you to know, so when you're firing people at the end of the year, remember I told you that dude

can't blokay. Take me behind the curtain. Real quick, how often in your years in the Cowboys war room did Jerry Jones get like fear of God, like listen you m efforts like how often? Oh it happened? No, in the meeting, like how often? Oh often? Often? Yeah? He you know, the whole thing. Jerry was really good at listening. But Jerry also like listen, hear you, you know, and we were all and yes, sir, you know, I mean attention, you know, hop two you know. But that's it. But

that's what a general manager does. General manager walks in there and says, listen, I don't want to hear crap about this guy. And you know, when you get scouts at waiver on guys, I don't know, man, I no, I don't have time for you waivering on this guy. Mike Zimmer wavered on. One day, Mike Zimmer is like, yeah, I like this guy at this defensive back. I like him. I like him. Next day comes and I'm not so sure. I look at Mike and go, what the hell are

you doing? I go, you got these scouts. They don't know what you're thinking right now. This is not going to do us any good. And he's like, well, I'm just not sure. I'm like, you're talking to people on the phone instead of trusting your own damn eyes. And that's the problem. See to me, if it's not if it's not helping. We're trying to evaluate this quarterback really right now. I mean it's going into year seven, yea, And the and the landscape of what we've seen right

now in football is we're moving on from quarterbacks. If you can't play, Hey, Matt Ryan, goodbye. You know, you know, all these quarterbacks are kind of moving along. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's that's what I'm saying. We're in an era now where people used to be just terrified of losing their quarterbacks, and now it's like a nope, poor Matt Ry one hundred years you try to just run me out of town and back to me to tell me you love me again. Atlanta, Atlanta is taking

a forty million dollar cap hit. Think about that. That's what these people think about these quarterbacks. Sometimes. I just can't believe they didn't rip the vand aid off last year. I structured him then traded him. I don't know if that last time we think the catboy has problems, Oh my god, I think that last six minutes was probably the closest we've gotten to like Brian in office versus

Brian on air, which everybody we got. We gotta sell an experience with you watching tape and just talking trash about the old days. It's beautiful. We ran over. Sorry about no, but there's there's a couple things. I'm just going to extend it into the third segment, so we'll just keep this conversation going when we come back from this break. Football season is almost over, and that means tax season is here. With it comes taxiety. Filing taxes

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dot gov. This is that Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, final segment of the Draft Show here on this Tuesday. Hey, your taxes liberty tax Thank you, Brian. I think there's probably another one in your bank, probably WrestleMania Cowboys dot Com slash Rowdy. WrestleMania is like two weeks away. If you weren't aware, see the Undertaker go in the Hall of Fame. I wanted to buy tickets. I wanted to get it. This phenomenus WBC good company. Right after this,

you can do that. You have fun employed. At least you'll be home by that. Follow me on YouTube. I'll be back with you Wednesday night. All right, this is my favorite thing to talk about in the draft. I just love subverting the expectations, like what's that board mean? Uh? Flipping them on their head? Okay, yeah, you're welcome Apple Christian changing um. By the way, you appreciate the fact you used to edit my work, right yeah, oh yeah yeah.

I started doing some writing things and I watched all that tweet I watched my buddy Mike Polucci edited live because it was he was following me as I wrote, and it was on a Google doc and I was just like, man, that's a lot of work. Great job, Brian. Brian notebook used to be like a forty minute or deal to get it, to get it readable anyway, which

I love. I love the name big squeak, Big squeak, fantastic. Uh. I just want I want y'all to tell me in the lane of Cede Lamb, no, the opposite a name that you don't think has a chance to be sitting around at twenty four that would make you super excited. Oh which, and I don't I don't want you to sit on the fence either. Like I've got one a guy that you absolutely don't think will be there, Trayvon Walker, Georgia. Okay, yeah, go that. I would love that to happen. I don't

think he's gonna end up falling. Ultra athletic edge rusher. He would be your starter day one. His length, his traits I mean powerful, clutch plays, I mean played. He was probably one of the ring leaders, you could call him a ring leader of that Georgia defense. If he were to somehow fall to twenty four, that'd be one of those guys. I would run a half marathon for I know that's what you're trying to do. Now, that's one of those guys. I would achieve a half marathon.

I won't use the word run. I will achieve a half marathon over a span of four days. So however many miles it is a day to add up to a half marathon, three and a half, it's not that bad, Okay, So four straight five days, yeah, over a period of eight days, I will achieve a half marathon. If Garrett Wilson makes it to twenty four and gets picked by the Cowboys, he's my top wide receiver. But I have no idea the order these wide receivers are going to go in. Drake London at USC could be the first

receiver off the board. Jamison Williams Alabama, I think could be the top receiver off the board. It's been it's sort of been our narrative this whole time that like Garrett Wilson is on a rung of his own, and he's not right, he's and we are not or the world does not agree that he's wide receiver. One some do, some don't. It depends. You can check between Daniel Jeremiah

and Dane Brugler and Kiper and McShay. Like Garrett Wilson is not consensus wide receiver one, and if he were available, he would be my eight day half marathon guy because I just I love the way he plays. I think today's NFL is about creating separation and what can you do after the catch? And I think the he does both of those very well explosive movements get the ball in his hands and watch him work after the catch. Garrett Wilson at twenty four would be my party with all,

which I love your answer, Kyle. I think we know, but I think we both agreed. I beat him just well. I just don't. I can't imagine a scenario where Walker falls, and I don't think I agree. I can't. That's why I said it. You told me who you are certain follow Hutchinson. You did exactly what I wanted you to do. My I think I also don't think Garrett Wilson will be there at twenty four, but I think it's a

little more realistic the scenario that Jeff is painting. There was a time in my life that I believe that Trevor Penning was going to be there to tackle from northern Iowa. It's no way in hell, now, really, no way. Your answer should be, Charles Cross, Well, I mean, there's a decent chance he's OT four and he's your OT one. Yeah, but I just have Yeah, but my my, I just knew that those three guys weren't going to be. I knew all that the tackles were not going to be.

But there was a time because Raymond, the kid from Central Michigan, Central Michigan, a lot of people mocking. They send me those mocks and they mock him. I'm not fired up for him. I'm not as fired they picked him. If they picked him at twenty four, I'd be devastated. I would be hurt. And I'm seeing him being being locked in the first round a lot, a lot. I don't know if I would be to that point devastated. Would I would rather have somebody else? I would flip

to the Bengals. I would follow Lyle to the bank. I mean, you've got one guy already in that the baby. I just kind of feel like though that that that Penning was a guy that maybe that if it got kind of wiped out that you're thinking, man, there is

a mean, big, nasty tackle. And I really really liked him with the possibility when Lyle Collins was still here and then moving Lyle Collins, and then people are saying, well, he can't bend well, Lyle Collins can't bend maybe the hips giving him a little bit of a problem, and he can't bend the play guard. But I you know, that would be and another one would be a name and I thought might not be there that or that probably won't be there that I thought would be there

was Chris a Lobby. I really thought that Chris A Lobby would be. I think there's a chance that he might go ahead of Burks from Arkansas. I think this wide receiver tandems. I mean the first five Jamison Williams, Treylon Burks. I love James Williamson. I do too, Drake London,

Chris A Lobby. Those are my five guys in order, and that's who was your sky more of course, No, okay, but those five guys are completely interchangeable, and wherever they end up going, there's probably gonna be two of those five that are there at twenty four? Is there and you know, my son Bennett asked me a question the other day about this about is there a chance that Stingley does get to twenty four? Chance? Yeah? Chance, yes,

I just five between five and ten percent. Ask I don't get you got to turn the card and don't you Yes? Oh if if it had and our LSU bias, I mean I'm down on Derek Stingley, like the way that his career went at LSU. Yeah, just there again, we're talking about a guy who originally was like a top five prospects who could be in play at twenty four. Like,

there's enough cause for concern there. I'm not sitting here trying to convince anybody that he's the second coming, but the traits at twenty four rare, Like you don't get a shot at at that type of guy at twenty four very often. I just think it's worth the risk. Is there an edge guy you would throw in there, like I would throw in Carloftis, George karl offtis to Purdue. But I think what happened with the Ojabo injury is that probably broke your ability to get one of the

top edges to twenty four. I think all four of those guys are gone. Depending four budgets, Tim, I think depending on what happens with Jermaine Johnson. And I'm gonna say this, there might be some people that like this Mofi kid from Minnesota, maybe two in the second or third round. Well he Now, I I'm not saying you. I'm just saying, no, he's He's there's people that looks people legitmly talking about out him as a first round player.

I'm looking at a and again, not like nobody's mock is gospel at all, but I'm looking at a mock from a big publication that has him going thirtieth. Overall, it's definitely a thing, and I loved it because all this is is just people taking what they're hearing. I mean, I know we all watch the tape and do the homework, but when you're trying to look smart in a mock, you're just taking what you're hearing from people versus what teams might need and trying to make an educated guest.

So for boy Mafates to suddenly be climbing like this, it's because somebody out there in the league thinks that highly of him, right, Yeah, I think that now. And to Jeff's point though, with a Jobo, with that thing him being out, everybody moves up a slot. Now, you know all these guys like, okay, well there and there were We've talked about this in the show for weeks that that there were a lot of questions about him

as a first round guy. You know, there's he hadn't played a lot of football, you know in the background, all these things like that Jobo. Yeah, I mean they literally hit him on rundowns, like they took him off the field. Yeah. Yeah, So, I mean you know that that's one of those ones where you're thinking, boy, this is this one's got a chance to be really as

they used to say, the boom er bust. I know, at one point you had said that your friends were saying Jermaine Johnson might have been a little bit higher, yeah than me anticipated. Yeah, the scouts were seeing that the media scouts were a little too high on Jermaine Johnson.

Is that flip with Ojabo's news now, Oh no, I kind of feel like that I wouldn't move Jermaine Johnson and the fact that guy he transferred from Georgia and where every Georgia film you're thrown I was watching Georgia, was watching the Kentucky Center, you know, the other night, and and I and I, and all of a sudden, all you see is why yeah Fortner. Yeah, And I'm like everything, he's trying to block these Georgia guys and he's doing his best, you know. I mean when he

plays Missouri, he's really good. But he was playing against George. It's like hold on your rear, you know, kind of the thing for first round pick. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying that that was a generational defense. But but that's where you like Jermain Johnson was part of that at one time. You kind of get it, like, you know, if he was at Georgia, we'd probably be talking about him as him Walker, you know, that kind of a thing. I mean, he's that good of a player. I wouldn't.

I think the I think the thing the scouts told you about the meet, you know, you media scouts haven't too high. I think there's a lot of guys that are saying, well, you media scouts probably had him right. I get in tough twenty, Yeah, maybe a top twenty pick along a similar line. It's it's kind of the opposite instead of guys that we don't think we'll be there. I couldn't help but notice mcshaye and Kiper put out their latest mock this Morning Goodness Ration, which how is

the crust? Do you like me, Joe? If you haven't, if you haven't seen the pick for the Cowboys in this particular mock, is Tyler Smith out of Tulsa? That would be shocking. Y'all's reactions tell me everything that maybe at fifty six that'd be shocking, definitely in the third see what's happening is these are hints because the first time I saw Tyler Smith, the Tulsa tackle listed as a top fifty player was Daniel Jeremiah NFL. Yeah, he had him as like number twenty late twenties or thirty

or something like that. And when you see something like that that you're not seeing elsewhere, it comes from somewhere, and so you're raised an I run and go, maybe Tyler Smith's gonna be a first round offensive tackle if the Cowboys make that pick. Like there's different ways to do the draft show, like talking about what's realistic and what they might do. And I know, Dave, that's kind of the lane that you existed right where I try to. I exist in the lane of I watched the players.

I'm just gonna give you what I think about them. If they take Tyler Smith in the first round, that'll be a bad pick. Tell me, tell me more about him as a player. I mean, we've talked about him before. I don't care. We have to do two of these a week. He doesn't have very good technique overall as a blocker. When you watch him play, I mean, he's more about trying to bully you and beat you up

than anything. He catches a lot of blocks, too, There's nothing about the punch and the drive and the things like that when you associate with offensive lineman. He's more of a He'll take the blow and then trying to kind of rustle with you and stuff like that. And you know that's the thing. I mean, he puts himself in some bad body positions when you watch him, you know you think that you think that Terence Steal at times like turns into like hopping on one leg and

trying to do that. This guy's three twenty four pounds and people move him around like that. But that's that's the problem I have. I think he's just tiding of a grab and hold on to his guy instead of a guy that's just moving people out of the way. I think you have to teach him to play offensive tackle. Yeah, I think you have to rebuild him literally from the ground up. But I think he played tackle at Tulsa. But you have to re teach him. I mean in terms of I would probably put him in a guard

I just mean in terms of he doesn't do anything right. Yeah, Like his punches don't land, his feet and his hands don't work together, the bass doesn't work even though he is strong enough. So like what he is is a guy that people are gonna be like, well, he's big enough and he's athletic enough. Now we have to teach him. So I was about to say, when you when you

hear about so this guy just sounds incredibly raw. When you hear about these types of players, it's usually because they're super freak athletes and you're just banking on them putting it together. Is he in that? You do? We think he's in that caliber of athlete. Alete, He's he's strong, he's got strength, but in a lot of times he relied on his strength to get him out of that trouble to get him out of the poor hand placement

and the poor footwork and things like that. It's one of the reasons why he ended up at Tulsa and not at an SEC school along the way. It's because he has the strength to be a Division one into pro caliber backup sort of deal. But if he's going to be a pro starter, you're gonna need to reteach him quite a bit. Just an example, just going through my notes here, of the two of the three games I watched, he had three holding penalties, and that just shows you when he have holding pace, what do we

associate with Connor Williams. We associate bad body position, getting off balance. Yeah, that's when you have to holdation. You have to yeah, and you don't want to get your quarterback hit. So if you're gonna have a bunch of holding penalties because of bad body position, how you're going to play in the NFL. I mean, I'm watching play against Ohio State, No Clona State, and people like that

quality competition. Those guys we we you know, we're evaluating them, and I'm looking at him, going, man, he's always on the edge of holding, you know, and maybe he grows out of that, but the fact that he likes to catch blocks all day, I'm not into that. Yep. Interesting very and no, I mean when when Kiper made the pick and I saw it, I went man, not for me? Not for me. I mean there's there's probably seven other guys I would rather have than that. I just washed.

I do, Okay, I don't want but even but rats mock drafts this time of year. I mean, we're all doing these mock drafts and we're you know, point four point zero, and you're like, you're just trying to throw things at areas. But I will say, and like, the draft industry has come so far since mel Kiper was like the guy. But Kiper, mcshaye, Dane, Jeremiah, like we

just said this when Bucky. When one of those guys throws a name that isn't in the normal list, my ears perk up because two of them now, because Jeremiah has him ranked high and now and now Kuiper put him in a foot in first round. Why Kiper did say, I read the description of it, and he mentioned, like, well, in another option here would be Zion Johnson, who goes like two picks later for him. So just pretend they

picked the right guy. I just think it's important to note because again, that's how we started this whole draft class in the first place. Was like, beauty's going to be in the eye of the beholder from about pick sixteen and the rest of the way. Yep. You know. So a guy that we at this table collectively think of as pick forty five could be picked twenty four and it shouldn't shock us, even though it probably would in the moment. Well, you remember I brought up Tyler

Smith just from hearing stuff at the Combine too. One of the second show with Dane we had brought up Tyler Smith as an option. But when I brought him up, I wasn't talking about twenty four. I was talking about fifty six. Yeah, I was trying to get get him to fifty six and maybe fall a little bit, maybe they didn't take a tackle in the first round. Now at twenty four, I would be relatively disappointed, real relatively, I mean completely Verry, Yeah, so did you try to

be nice about it? Yeah? I'm trying to be nice. You don't have a nice thing like you could go, You could go a long way towards just packaging your mean stuff. A little bit nicer, right, I'm trying to figure that out. Yeah, but people also look at me and they're like, oh, you're soft, and that's not so. Yeah. I don't think of you a soft diplomat. I appreciate a diplomatic is a good way. Diplomatic doesn't mean soft.

Real quick, before we get out of here, I did Brian and Kyle somebody not me, because you know you told me, you told me off the air you hadn't watched him yet, Jeff, So why don't you just let me do the diplomatic stuff. Why don't you just let me make an offhand comment on purpose? And then can we talk about Alec Lindstrom really quickly? Sure, not as like a first round prospect, but I feel like when you talk about Sinners, everybody talks about linder Bomb a lot,

but never him. I kind of feel like Luke Fortner from Kentucky's a better play, you know, And I picked up Luke just late here the last couple of days. But you know, when you talk about Alec Lundstrom, I mean he's a left handed center, which we saw with Creed Humphrey last year. So it's kind of weird when you watch tape and you see the left handed center. He didn't have the size, but the footwork and stuff,

I really really like. I think this guy he's probably not gonna I don't think he tested particularly well, but you watch him on tape that he does have the ability to kind of, you know, hook up on his guy and he can't sustain his block. The toughness, I thought the point of attack was really really good. I saw him reaching wide techniques and what I mean wide like the ones and the threes on the outside. You mean, he was able to get his head across a couple

of different times. But I just don't think he you know, I don't think he has the overall power to really keep somebody stalemated at the line. And so you know that's something that that you kind of need to keep an eye on. Again. I once I watched the Kentucky guy, I said, okay, Alec, you're a little bit further down, you know, and this is where you know I'm looking. A matter of fact, I put Fortner over Parm from Memphis, who is a projection at the at the guard spot.

Who's going to project from guards to center. Yeah, I've got Parm above him. I've got Donovan West out of Arizona State above him. I think Lenstrom's a good player, uh, and his jumps were okay, but like you said, his running was not great at the combine. He's also got short arms, and that's one thing that I'm I'm not normally maybe our number our number one center has short arms to right, but the number one center dominates his film and Lyndstrom does not dominant. That's true by any means.

That's true. You can watch him play against Clemson and they've got bigger, heavier inside guys and he doesn't get beat up, which gave me encouragement that like, Okay, here's a guy that's you know, he's not you know if you struggle, like I say, Fortner playing against Georgia, there were some really good reps and they're one's like oh look out, you know, oh Jim, you know, like Tony

Romo doing oh Jim. But you know, other than that though, I mean, like I said, I you know Lenstrom, he he comes from a long line of NFL players too. His fam mother right, Yeah, he's got some he's and I think Dad, I think they've got a lot of uncles and stuff that played as well. Fights. I will give him that he fights. This was a fun hour of radio. Guys. What do you say We do it again on Thursday, So let's do it for Jeff Brian shut up, Jeff. See Kyle, I'm Dave. Thanks for listening

to the Draft Show. We'll talk to y'all next time. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.