Draft Show: Realistically Looking at Wide Receiver?

the Star in Frisco. Glad you're with us, Kyle Yeoman's Jeff Kavanaugh, We've got Dame Brugler from the Athletic and Kevin Kate T. Turner ready to break down some guys. We're gonna talk a lot of defensive line, answer a ton of Twitter on the twenty questions coming up here in the next twenty minutes or so, because well there's a lot of them. I may I put out a question last night, a tweet real quickly about it, and we had over forty questions asked. So we've got to

hit a bunch of those today. And maybe even more next week. We'll have to just kind of carry them over day by Dave, Glad you're with us, Chris being back in the studio as always running things, and Dane, you had some wide receivers that you wanted to talk about. You just put it out your top twenty wide receivers on the Athletic. Highly encourage you guys to talk about that. But Katie and Jeff, are we really looking at wide

receivers whenever it comes to the Cowboys? Is that a realistic need or is this something that may just be kind of a late round thing. Whenever you have ten plus draft picks, they could pick one. I mean, I guess that question could go two different ways. I wouldn't be opposed to picking one at number ten if you think he's the best player available, and then you just make your roster work from there. But I met realistically for the Cowboys, you know you still have Noah Brown

and Cedric Wilson. But teams pick wide receivers, and you could I could pick one to just have him on standby and maybe to make the roster and maybe to be a next year factor on the roster, so they can definitely use a pick on a wide receiver, I'd be really surprised if it was early. Yeah. Actually, I think it's kind of foolish to A think that Michael Gallop will be here long term and B and not

not because of anything Michael's done. It's just if money goes to DAK like it might, then Michael Gallop is probably not going to be signing an extension. And B I think it's foolish to be like, well, Mary Cooper is a beacon of health. So I mean honestly, if you're sitting there at ten and Kyle Pitts is there, you probably consider it. And I know everyone's maybe I'm going to freak out about that, but you consider it.

If you're gonna talk wide receiver, you might as well do it with Kyle Pitts the tight end wide receiver at ten. But day three, I know there's a lot of people who want to go all defense on the draft, and I'm not opposed to that, but if there's someone you like there on Day three. As wide receivers in this draft keep falling and falling and falling because the

depth of that position is outstanding. As Dane's list can attest too, and it's I think our rankings will attest to I nothing wrong with taking a wide receiver in this year's draft. In fact, I think it's a wise

thing to do. I think it can be something there. Yeah. No, to Katie's point, that's his wide receiver class is so unique because it's there's so the volume of talent at the position is just so impressive and it's been that's saying something compared to last year as a group, when we set a record for the most draft pick at the position in the first two rounds. But I think this year we could have more draft picks in the top one hundred picks at wide receiver than we did

last year. So you know, and if we don't, that means there's gonna be some pretty darn good receivers available into Day three, which you know, there's gonna be some teams, maybe the Cowboys included, who could be sitting tight and saying, all right, let's you know, let's see who falls to us.

And if one of these guys, whether that's you know, a Josh Palmer from Tennessee or you know, Frank Darby from Arizona State, one of these really talented receivers that in most years is going in the first three rounds. If they're available in the fourth or fifth, the value might be too good to pass up. It's pretty impressive, I mean, back to back years like we've had with these wide receivers in total, because I mean in the past, you look at the wide receiver group, it's always been strong.

But even twenty twenty one, you look at those top three receivers, Ceedee Lamb. Then you follow that up with Henry Ruggs and of course Jerry Judy. Now you move on and you have kind of that big three again, and that's what we kind of want to talk about initially is Jamar Chase, Jalin Waddle, and Davante Smith of course the Heisman winner out of Alabama. I mean, there are plenty of wide receivers there up at the top

of the draft, but Dane, you just mentioned it. I mean, it might be just as deep of a draft as we've seen at the position ever. And that's impressive to me and its own right, just based off of the fact that, well, you haven't necessarily seen that from a position like the wide receiver group in the past. Yea, And honestly, this might be the new norm for the position when you factor in, uh, you know how how

colleges college offenses are evolving. You know, we're seeing a lot more it's just a lot of spread, a lot of wide open, a lot of just let your quarterback get the ball to athletes on the perimeter. Uh. You know, you're looking for matchups, you're looking for explosive plays. Who's

gonna make that happen. It's the receivers. And so as you know, NFL offense offenses start to really really mirror that, we're gonna see a lot of turnover at the receiver position these next few years, and it's going to be a very crowded group and it's gonna make it for some really interesting evaluations because we have to go even further in depth on these guys to really you know, to term in you know, okay, what's the how did these guys stack up? And it's tough. I had I

had a tough time doing this top twenty. Um, you know it's I feel good about my top three, and

then I feel good about four. And then that's where it starts to get really uh you know about preference, and you know you're splitting hairs on some of these guys, you know, what can you You really have to start focusing on not what they can't do, but what they can do and how does that impact your game at the game at the next level, and who it can impact it greater, or maybe who's more polished, who's got

a you know, it's a ceiling verse floor argument. So there's so many different ways you can look at these receivers. I don't expect everybody to agree with one through twenty. I think everybody, you know, team to team, evaluator to evaluator, they're going to have their own order and it's going to differ. So it's just a really interesting exercise to

try to stack all these guys. Katie, you mentioned Kyle Pitts, and I think certainly he's one of the most talented, if not the most talented position play in the draft

outside of quarterback. And I mean, whenever we talked about the top three receivers like a Jamar Chase and DeVante Smith and a Jalin Waddle, where does Kyle Pitts rank among those three And is there a chance that any of those three guys if they're there at ten, Because chances are there will be one of those three at ten that the Cowboys at least look that direction, But is that still even a realistic possibility with the needs they have on defense? I mean I still would have personally,

I mean, Kyle Pitts is such a matchup maker. It almost matters what you have on your team. And I know, like I should give like a salacious answer that he would be my number one wide receiver, but he would not be for me. Though my list is a little different than Danes a little bit. I mean, the top three guys, but I still have Davante Smith is my number one wide receiver, and then Chase and then Waddle

and love them all. I would probably be Smith, Chase Waddle, and then Kyle Pitts, depending on what you're asking me to do. Though, you know, it's it's just a little different what you have on your roster, because I do think supplementing what you have is important. I think if you have the same types of wide receivers, that's fine, but I think it's a lot more dangerous if you have a home run threat, a clear separator, a physical guy, and you can have them all and piece them together.

You know, That's that's where I kind of looks So from a Cowboys perspective, you know, we know Ceedee Lamp can kind of do it all. You know how Mary Cooper is kind of your separator guy. We know Michael Gallup's kind of your physical and deep ball type of threat most of the time. And that's not saying that none of these guys can't do some of those other things. You know, how does Kyle Pitts fit into that? They don't need that right now. Looks good next year, though,

doesn't it if Michael Gallup is gone. So that's what things kind of change for me. So I would still have those three wide receivers over Pitts, just for like that if you're drafting a wide receiver. But because if I'm drafting Kyle Pitts, I'm using him as a tight end as well. I will put him in line every now and then just to throw off formations and things

like that. Dane, why do you have Davante Smith third on that list behind his teammate Jalelen Waddle and then of course Jamar Chase, who was your number one wide receiver, Because I mean, of course the historic seas that Davante Smith ended up having, You're still not necessarily convinced he could translate to the to the next level at least better than those two guys. No, I mean, I wouldn't phrase it like that because I mean, I'm convinced he'll be fine at the next level. It's just you got

to separate these guys somehow. And you know, to me, Jamar Chase, Uh, you know, I think there's a lot of people, not a lot of people. Some people are you know, just they've they've kind of forgotten how dominant he was last year. Um. You know, he's he's not six four, he's more like six foot. He's not a fourth three athlete. He's more of a you know, four

four eight type of athlete. But his ability to get open, his ball skills down the field are just you know, it's Larry fitzgerald s And uh, to me, with what he did last year, that that just sold me. Um, he's the top receiver in this draft in my opinion. And then it comes to the Alabama guys, and this is what it gets difficult because Davante Smith, I mean, how do you look at what he did this year and not be impressed and you know he will translate

to the next level. Um, the one hundred and seventy five pounds does it doesn't scare me? Yeah, sure, I think you'd be you know, you can't just look at his career and say, oh, well he stayed healthy, so he'll be healthy his entire NFL career. That's not really how it works. Yeah, he's avoided injury to this point, and that's great, and I hopefully he does uh and he continues to be healthy. But at one hundred and seventy one hundred and seventy five pounds that it's just tougher.

It's tougher to stay healthy when you're you know, bigger guys are hitting you at uh, you know, much faster speeds. So, you know, I think at the end of the day, Jalen Waddle his continued maturation as a route runner and as being more than just an athlete. Um, he's his his ability to create those big plays, four plays at seventy five plus yards the last two years. That ability to create big plays is kind of what gave him the edge over Tavante Smith for me, but again, Tavante,

I mean these guys are so close. I mean it's not like there's a gap between these two players. I think both are worthy of top ten consideration. Jeff, where do you have those top three guys ranked with Jase Smith and Waddle? And even if you wanted to throw Kyle Pits in there as well. Oh man, I'm excuse me. I'm a coward when it comes to all of those guys at the moment, because I think they're all monsters. But I did know. I came into today wanting to fight Dane and so I'm excited to have my first

opening here because I hate. I hate the weight thing like it's been I've seen a study on it from football outsiders where people who are lighter at any given position group do not get hurt more than people who are heavier. The little guys don't get hurt more often than the big guys. It's never it's not borne out in an actual injuries and data. I think that's just something we look at him and we assume, like oop, man, it's really gonna hurt when that big guy hurt hits you.

And it's like it's never been born out to be factual in the NFL. So like, wait, won't bother me unless it functionally affects you on the football field, So like the Smith. Wait. Thing doesn't bother me, but I go back and forth with all three of them. I'm just like, they're all studs. What do you want? Like? I think DeVante Smith is a Marvin Harrison type, the

explosive route runner, the change of speed and direction. Jamar Chase will manhandle like people trying to press cover Jamar Chase and he just tosses them around and then catches the football on top of their head and moves on with his day and then waddle. I think is the best chance to be a Tyreek Hill type. He's not as thick, so he wouldn't be as explosive like after the catch. But he's the sort of guy that when you watch him, he just moves at a different speed

than literally everyone else on the field. It's February, so I'm a coward and I don't have an order yet I want all of them. And Kyle Pitts, you just double up on your cowardice and you say he's a tight end, not a receiver, so you will have your order within around. I would put Pits and I feel bad about it, but I would put Pits behind the wide receivers just to cover my butt from a historical perspective of tight ends, the NFL has done a worse job of finding them in the first and a better

job of finding them later. And at receiver it's the opposite. They do do a good job of finding them early and it's not hard later, but it's harder than tight end. So I think I would just use the positions to sort of break that tie, because it's just it's a bad history of picking tight ends that early. And I love Pits. So if the Cowboys took him at ten, would I be excited and fired up for it? Yeah?

Actually I would. I would like the pick. I'd be like, shoot, yeah, you think he's the best player, but I would be wary because of the history of it and the positional value in the league. Dang rebuttal. So you're saying if you list them as a receiver, he's a better chance of hitting. No, I'm saying, no, no, no, I'm saying

he's a tight end. I'm saying if I had to order those four guys, I would order Kyle Pitt's fourth in my rankings, just because he does play tight end and he doesn't play wide receiver, and the tight end history is much much scarier than the wide receiver history when you're using a pick that high on that position. So I would you're not punishing receivers. Yeah, I'm punishing Pits for being a tight end and putting him behind the top three receivers because he's a tight end, gotcha. Yeah,

And I mean he is a tight end. He lines up in line, and even if he's a new age tight end, which you know he'll you know, look at Travis Kelsey and how the Chiefs use him. He's not you know a lot of times he's he's out wide, he's detached. So you know, I don't think that, you know, he has to be a guy that spends most of his time with his hand on the ground to be considered a tight end. That's just not how the NFL works.

So he is absolutely a tight end. Um. I mean, my rebuttal to what you said about the weight, I mean, if you had two receivers that had the same exact speed, skill sets, everything, height, but one it was one hundred and seventy pounds, the other was two hundred pounds, which one are you taken? You're taking the two hundred pounder? Why? I Well, I think that's unrealistic though I'd to say

that they're gonna be. Why is that realistic? I'm saying if they were, if there's a scenario where there's the same speed, same skill set, the same strengths weaknesses, they're the exact same player, except one's two hundred pounds one one hundred seventy pounds. Which one are you taking? Theoretically, you are going to take the two hundred pounder because there's just I mean, you can, you can cite the study, but I mean just using common sense of and how

science works. Having better bulk on your body, you're gonna have a better chance of uh you know that that's body armor, You're gonna have a better chance to staying healthy. I mean, that's just I don't know. To me, that's common sense. But I think that's the problem. I think so many things we perceive as common sense aren't actually common sense. It's just our initial reaction. Like Kyler Murray is much less likely to get hurt than Ben Roethlisberger.

Ben Roethlisberger has quote body armor, he gets hurt. Andrew Luck, Carson Wentz, the big guys, those are the guys that are getting destroyed. The little guys get hurt. They get hit a lot more. I mean, and I think part of they gets hit more than Kyler oh yeah, oh yeah easily. And how many I honestly, how many hundred and seventy pound receivers are there in the league, you know, like I think, not size, well, that that's what, like the sample size isn't really there when you start comparing

them to others. I mean, I don't know, I don't personally, I don't buy that for a second that uh, you know, weight does not matter that and part of it, part of it is is you know, there's a reason we don't see a lot of one hundred and seventy five one hundred and seventy pound receivers in the league or just players in the league period. And you know, part of it is because you know, it's hard to make it at that size. Um, And so I mean the guys that do make it are you know, tougher than heck.

And that's part of it. So and again this is not to say I don't want this to you know, listeners to come away from this to saying they're thinking that I don't believe Dante Smith's an NFL player. I absolutely think he is. I would absolutely draft him in the top ten. But is there a little bit of

concern there because of his of his size. Absolutely, I think I think you'd be crazy not to at least think about that, how his size might affect him at the next level, and you know, not just brushing it away and saying, oh, he'll be fine, he's he's just just as likely to get hurt as you know, a guy that's two hundred and fifteen pounds, or you know

Calvin Johnson or any one of these guys. I do want to point out dating that my act argument would be technically that Calvin Johnson would be more likely to get hurt just by a little bit. But that's what evidence tells us at every position, not just receiver, the heavier guys get hurt a little more. But that's just data. You don't get to throw away data. Why would you do that because you think it's I don't I don't

buy that for a second, because again, sample size matters here. Uh. You know, we're talking about how many receivers are there in the league one hundred and seventy pounds. I mean you're talking about a handful. There's not many and why are we talking about a handful because those guys don't make it. Yeah, but you can do the same thing with quarterback. How many sub six foot quarterbacks are there?

And why didn't they make it? Because of opportunity? Because people perceive them that way, And as you stop perceiving them that way and people get opportunities, you're assuming more guys perceived. You're you're assuming that's perceived and it's not. They just they couldn't make it because of the size. I mean, yeah, is there a stigma against shorter, smaller quarterbacks. Sure, absolutely, that's a thing. But to say that that's the reason and not that they couldn't stay healthy or you know

that they couldn't overcome the size, that's an assumption. And also, Jeff, you were talking about throwing away data. Isn't throwing away data exactly what you're doing when you're talking about a two hundred pound receiver versus one hundred and seventy five pound receiver. How you're throwing out the weight, which has been a piece of data that teams have relied on

and scouts in front offices have relied on for the past. However, a hundred years or so, whenever it comes to evaluating prospects, and sure, yeah, there's data outside of that that kind of puts some context to it, but ultimately, the weight is a piece of data as well. You can't necessarily not take that into context whenever you're looking at prospects.

I don't I guess, I don't understand what you mean. Like, yes, they weigh a certain amount, but what am I throwing out I'm telling you what that amount means really just saying positions and getting hurt. You're just saying it. You don't think it matters as much as it should. Ultimately, I don't know. I don't think. Let me, I'll be very clear. I don't think your weight matters at all. Oh, okay, at all except for in the way that it affects your play on the field. Like in terms of he's

going to get hurt because he's small. That's factually inaccurate, so that I don't believe in any way. I'm not scared off by your weight unless your weight means you can't get off the line of scrimmage, you get bullied, you get thrown off the sideline. If your weight affects you on your tape, then sure, we can talk about, well, he's just not heavy enough, like he's getting moved around, he's getting punked, that's one thing. But in terms of he's going to get hurt because he's small, it's just

it's not factually accurate. So I can't go there. Again. I don't think it's factually accurate because a lot of those guys don't make it to the NFL because they it's just hard. For those guys, it's harder. And so, you know, you can say that the guys that are one hundred seventy pounds that have made it to the NFL have stayed healthy, that's great, But what about all the one hundred seventy pounds that didn't make it that far. I mean, I think that you have to, you know,

think about that as well. So, uh, this I don't buy for a second that this is a factually Uh that's a factual take. It's this. It's a pure, pure opinion, and you know, we have different opinions on that. I'm interested to hear what Katie has to think on this one as well. Are you leaning toward a side, because I think if I'm leaning toward a side, I want to lean toward the percentages that really where the weight lies.

And I think that's mostly toward the bigger players, or at least the ones that Dane's kind of talking about. But Katie, are you leaning either way? Well, real quick, notable light players just for the fun of it, Hollywood Brown one sixty six, but also Snoop Menace one seventy one. Yea, we can, we can. We can hand pick these guys, and it didn't have a lot of fun with it. But what I would say is, and I don't I think I'm more of a peacemaker tap of guy. I

don't think I'm supporting anyone's argument here. One thing that I see, and this is one reason I have DeVante Smith a little higher. And again I think we all love these three guys. I have DeVante Smith a little higher. DeVante Smith, you see him a little more going over the middle and doing the dirty work. And you know, Waddle might have gotten a little more of those opportunities if he had gotten to play, because he had getten hurt. And obviously last year Rugs and Judy were getting a

lot of the volume. But seeing Davante Smith go over the middle and move the chains and things like that, that makes me go, Okay, you can do this, and I really like that. I I like the toughness there. That's that's one of the big aspects that I have on. Is one of the notes I've put on here is I think he's tough along with the long arms. But you know he's one seventy two, waddles one eighty two. I'm gonna pretend they're both one seventy seven. I like

Jamar Chase a lot. Let's let's just have fun. But here's the thing, Dan, you have top three. I cut it off because I'm gonna used to see where that Jeff's earlier coward. I wanted to put Cadarius Tony in the first round. He's my wide receiver. Four. I think he was your wide receiver for as well. I wanted to put him in the first round. And then and maybe I'm a jerk for this, and then the first day of Senior Bowl he goes out and his heads and the clouds and he drops the ball about ninety times,

and then I went, Nope, I can't do it. I can't do it. And I'm a terrible person for that, and I'll admit that. But he's my top wide receiver in the second round in wide receiver four. But I just I love the player so much, but I was so annoyed by that the wide open drops, I was pretty annoyed by that. He's he's got a lot of focused right. He wants to make a play. He's so eager to make a play that he will start to

make his moves before he secures the catch. There's no doubt that's that's part of what he needs to clean up. But yeah, he's he's a human joystick. I mean, he's he's crazy. Some of these movements that he can make, The elusiveness he makes the most athletic defenders look awkward in their pursuit, and it's just really really unique. So now he's he's got some character stuff too that teams are you know, on the fence about. So you know,

the interview process is gonna be big for him. But you know he's going to be somewhere in that late one early two mix. He could be an interesting, interesting chess piece for a team that's looking for a versa little receiver that can be a creative igniter. A couple other these these smaller slot guys or I guess they could play in the slot that are in this draft

class that to keep an eye on. I mean, we talked about DeVante Smith, but you also have Rondel Moore out of Purdue, Jalen Darden, who, of course I'm really high on out of North Texas, but yes, there's a North Texas connection there. You go further down the list two to at Well from Louisville. I mean, he's one hundred and sixty five pounds five nine So, I mean there are a guy like this all over the draft board,

and there are in any draft. And like Dane said, it's a little bit harder for some of these guys to make it a longer career or at least a notable career in the NFL, a little bit more so than others. So we'll keep an eye on some of those guys as we continue to break down these wide receivers. But when we come back here on the Draft show, we've got some twitter on the twenty questions that we

have to hit up. The first one we're gonna hit does the play of Connor McGovern and Tyler Beatish turn the Cowboys away from drafting an interior offensive Lindlan we would discuss it next here on the Draft Show. Sometimes nothing beats a classic Miller Lake, the original light beer proved with great taste and only ninety six calories available for delivery. Celebrate responsively. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Ninety

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six calories available for delivery. Celebrate responsively. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Ninety six calories three point two carbs for twelve ounces. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Welcome back to the Draft Show Dallas Cowboys dot Com, presented by Miller Light. As always, it's time now to go into some Twitter on the twenty. I see Chris Beam has gotten up from his chair, So we're gonna go ahead

and push on through to Twitter on the twenty. There are plenty questions to get to, Oh there it is, Hey, it was in there. It was there in the delay, but it was there. Chris Beam has always killed Collins Mutach. So now that we've gotten into Twitter on the twenty and we've had it all taken care of. We've got one question this from our guy Max. He said, does the way that Connor McGovern and Tyler Beotish played last season steer you away from drafting an interior offensive lineman?

Haven't heard much on the evaluation on McGovern's play. We'll start things off with Jeff on this one. I thought McGovern when he played was solid, especially for a rookie, and I thought Beotish was kind of the same thing. Where if you told me that one of one or both of those guys had to start for your team next year, I'd say, Okay, that's that's that's all right, that's not bad. So I don't think it's a priority by any means, especially because you also have Connor Williams

and Zach Martin. So I think you're okay there. But it's a lot like Donovan Wilson, Right, everybody loves Donovan Wilson's he played well, he forced turnovers. If you had a chance and your best player available was a box safety who you thought could force turnovers and be a great tackler, Let's say you were going to play Joka from Notre Dame there upgrade it. Like, just because something's okay doesn't mean that I'm not going to upgrade it. So if you have the right opportunity, sure try to

upgrade that. But I don't think it's a need. If you had a best available player that you felt great about, you have a second round grade sitting there in the fourth that plays guard, I don't mind picking him, but no, I don't think it's I don't think it's a priority. I don't think it's a need. Kay, Yeah, I would say the same thing. I don't. To me, I think you could get through now. It will see what they do.

I would assume Joe Looney's not back again, but you know, maybe they do fork over a little bit of money for him. It wouldn't cost much. So yeah, man, I don't. To me, it's like a Day three type of thing. Um, And maybe there's someone you like, But I'm looking for more depth, and quite frankly, I'm more worried about the tackle position than I am the interior offensive line position. I mean, McGovern needs to play, Connor Williams needs to play. Those guys need to be your right and left guards,

be honest. Needs to be your center and that needs to be good enough. Zach Martin right guard? Oh okay, okay, oh yeah, yeah, God? What am I thinking? Was that? Think? What happening Zach Martin? I was thinking about moving Zach happen tackle? Okay, I got oh, I think I'm assuming. I think I'm assuming Tyran's not gonna be there and I'm already moving people. Who Wow, I had a brain fart. So guess what. I'm not drafting an offensive linement unless

I have to. Day. You know, this offensive line group is h it's a pretty pretty deep group, and so I mean I think you keep your options open. You know, football, it's a game of attrition and you just don't Oh, those needs are going to be there. So, um, you know, if the it's I just hope they keep their their open, their mind open to h if one of these guys would fall, if you know they they really like a

Robert Hainsey from Notre Dame. You know, a guy who played right tackle uh in college for the Irish, but he projects at guard center. Uh. You know, if if you're sitting there in the fourth round and he's there, I'd love to see a pick like that. Um. So you know, I think that when you look at this class and some of the guards or tackles that could be available at early day three, some of them you

can make an easy case for. It's funny because you look at the offensive line, and of course the tackle spot is ultimately the biggest worry, like Katie was saying, but I don't think you could necessarily rule out the interior as a big worry as well, because you said in Katie, you said, assuming Joe Looney comes back, I don't think that needs to be an assumption. I think there's a very high chance that he ends up coming back.

I don't know if I'm not making a prediction that he does, but I think it's probably a more than fifty fifty shot that he is back in a Cowboys uniform, just because of how cheap he may be in because of where the money's going to be allocated to try and get these guys on the roster, so sticking with some of those guys who played in the past may be there as well. Not saying he's going to be a starter either, because once again, Tyler Biotis and Connor

mcgover need that playing time. But it's still something you need to look at. But I don't think it is a need whenever it comes to interior offensive line, but it's something that you need to look for, at least because if you're in the second or third day of this draft, then all of a sudden you look around and there's a really, really good interior offensive lineman that you have high on your board. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cowboys pickt just to have some of that

depth available at some point down the line. Next question comes from Jeremy. It's kind of along the same lines, but not necessarily specific to the offensive line. He said what position groups might be better suited to be addressed in Cowboys free agency rather than the draft. Whether this is because of a lack of talent depth in the draft or particularly strong at a free agent class. Katie, what you got on that one? Well? Yeah, I mean, if Joe Looney wants to sign for lack two million dollars,

I guess I guess we could do that. Kind of on the same topic, can I thought a name out there real quick, too? Dan? What do you think about Royce Newman from Old miss Because he can play pretty much everywhere on the offensive line, and I'm more interested in guys like that, to be honest. Yeah, And that's that's his value is the versatility because he can play. He's got four position versatility. So that's that's the appeal

of the guy like that. And that's what I'm talking about when you you know, early day three, because that's when Royce Newman's gonna go a couple of these other guys. But you know, it's it's always interesting when you have a free agency before the draft, um and you try to piece together what you want to do in free agency, but then also have your eye on the draft in terms of which positions are stronger, where do you have

a better chance of finding or answering a need. You know, I think in a perfect world, you fill all your needs in free agency or at least, you know, patch the holes in that way you have freedom to kind of do what you want on draft weekend. So you know, that's what I think. That's what a lot of the smart teams do. And you know, I know it's not that easy when there's a cap involved, but if somehow they can find a way to patch their holes on the roster so you can enter the draft with you know,

the freedom to let the board fall into them. That's the best way to attack it, Jeff, And safety might line up is the position that has the most starting quality guys where you could do that, because I agree with Day, like the Cowboys, what they need to do is they need to sign a corner, they need to send a safety, they need to sign a defensive tackle. They need to do all that before the draft so

that you're not pitching hold into picking something. And that's actually also my problem with trying to get a linebacker on this team early in the draft, because I think you want to try to fill holes before the draft, not create holes where then you're forced to do something. And I think that's what they'd have to do if they moved on from a certain player, who I'd be fine with them moving on from, but still, why are

you just creating holes for no reason? So yeah, I think safety maybe the one that's most likely because there's a lot of names out there that are starting caliber guys that you could sign in free agency and kind of not have that need, but you don't want to stop from finding long term, cheap solutions in the draft. So your job is to sign a safety, a corner, a d tackle and get ready to draft. But if they wanted to spend big on one to where you go, all right, scratch that off the need list, I think

it would potentially be free safety. I think that's where I was thinking too. I think free safety is something that you can potentially look at. But there's also a lot of free safeties I think in this draft that are better than what the Cowboys have had in the past. So either way, there's a good chance to upgrade that position this year, even if it is a second or third round prospect, if the Cowboys want to draft that high and use that kind of capital on a safety

that's still yet to be seen either. This is from Sebastian. He says Dallas desperately needs to add speed on defense. We've talked about that on this show previously. Who are some of the more solid and speedy prospects that Dallas could target in the middle rounds at both linebacker and then of course defensive back in the secondary. There, Dane, So you say we're looking for speed, If that's our focus, it's just speed. Okay, Let's look a corner. Robert Rochelle

from Central Arkansas. He's one of the fastest players in his draft. He's going to be somewhere third or fourth round. I think if you're looking for pure speed, that makes sense maybe later on in the draft. Carry Vincent Corner of LSU, big time track guy high school. In college, he's a I graded him as a backup nickel, but you know, I think that he is still a draftable player. Then we look at linebacker. Uh, if we're looking at speed, at linebacker Cameron mcgroan at A Michigan. He's there's some

medical stuff that teams need to figure out. But again, if we're just focusing on speed, fourth or fifth round. H mcgron can fly. He's a little lighter than you want at the linebacker position, but he can absolutely move. So based off of just speed, those are three names in the day three territory that would make some sense. Jeff, do you have any guys that you've been looking at? Did this need to be day three? Was that the rule? It's he asked day two, day three, But we could

do any of them. I'm okay with anybody. Well, day two. I think if you're looking for speed, you can also talk about the both the Georgia Corner, both of them can absolutely run. They're both state champion one hundred and two hundred meter guys. So Eric Stokes Tyson Campbell linebacker, I would throw in. I don't have an estimated forty time, but just watching him run, I'm throwing Baron Browning, Ohio State has a second or third round guy. I think

he can really scoot. So those are guys top of my head that are second, third ish round guys that can move. Says here that Baron Browning four or five six potential forty is what I'm looking at right here, So I mean pretty decently quick for a linebacker. I guess right up in that that realm Katie. Any guys that stick out, I don't know if for speed guy, but I know he can run at his play speeds. Okay, is Jabril Cox the LSU linebacker? I like him a

little bit. I mean, look, the answer is Jeremiah Wisu Coromoa. That's fast. That's what we want. You know, that's kind of that you can be talking about him, so that there's your answer. Um, Laca Parsons is fast, Katie. Yeah, he is right. That's good. Someone else can have him. Get ready, buddy, he's my prediction. Get ready you Maybe you're right. Who's my prediction? Another another corner who can flat out run, Benjamin saints Jus at Minnesota. He's six

three and he's gonna run really well. So I don't I question his instinct. I question he's had a little bit of body stiffness. He'll he'll give up separation. But if you just ask him to, hey, that guy, go cover him, he can do it because he can open up and run. So saints Jus is an interesting name on day three. That's another good one. I like that name a lot. Jason Pruitt has two Dane Brugler's specials

on this one. How about this? So the first one is are there any senior FCS prospect who could go from playing a strong spring season and be drafted in April. We'll start with that one. Well, yeah, and it's such it's an interesting dynamic this year because we have, first of all, a spring season four college teams at the FCS level, which is obviously not the norm um. And they're also the opportunity for some of these players if

they want to bolt after the years. For some of these guys, you know, towards the end of the towards the end of the year. If they want a bolt and enter the draft, they're able to do that. Um, you know, I think that the one name that comes to mind immediately is the North Carolina A and T running back Jamaine Martin. Uh. He made a big announcement when he had said he was going to play in the spring, so it wouldn't surprise me if he still decides to go go pro. We'll see. Um he's five

ten to ten around there, good speed. Uh, he can make guys miss in the hole. I think he is a draftable player if he does. Declares, Martin would definitely be a name to keep an eye on. Tarikko and turned that place into a factory. Huh. Yeah. Well, this kid, he's a Coastal Carolina transfer, got into got into some trouble there, so he transferred down and kind of reinvented himself.

So he's a good player. The second part of this question was who were the high floor, high ceiling wide receiver prospects outside of his top twenty who we aren't talking about just yet. Okay, high you're asking a lot for if you want a high floor and a high ceiling, and you went on the fourth and fifth round. Yeah, exactly right. That's as high of a floor as you can potentially are you Are you asking for like two like a high floor player and a high ceiling player

or that guy, because otherwise he's unfair. There's no one. Yeah, there's not Yeah, there's not a thing. Yeah, I would probably split him up. I mean like a high ceiling guy that is like a day three player that maybe doesn't get a lot of loud to marry on Terry from Florida State, Yeah, I means four two ten. He watched some of his tape and it's just like, oh wow, this guy on top fifty guy. Um, but you know, there's a lot of stuff going on there. He's he's

not consistent at all. Um. Off the field, he's got himself to clean up. So you know, I don't he's a tough guy to project. But in terms of ceiling, yeah, the ceilings absolutely there. Um high out right. He played part of the year and then he opted out four at the end of the year. Okay, um what high go ahead? Katie? Well has it Kato two names out

there that we're not we're top twenty. And maybe I'm just saying that because there are two guys that I've watched um Mark West Stevenson Houston just a speed guy, but you know he's a fear body catcher, but he can fly. And then another guy who can fly is Auburn Anthony Schwarten. Schwartz. Yeah, I struggled so much with him because he h he might be the fastest human, uh like in this country, but he is that type of speed. Um, you know, he is that that fast.

He's a big time track guy. He said, all types of records in high school and one hundred meters, but he has just he has he has no instincts on the football field, and it's just a lot of all or nothing plays on his tape. Like you know, he had like one hundred and seventeen catches. I want to say in three years at Auburn, I had tho one hundred and seventeen. Only nine point six percent went over twenty five yards. So, you know, for a guy who's his specialty is speed, you know, not hands, we'll have

a lot of drops. Um for a guy that's it's all about speed, there just weren't many big plays on his tape. So you know, part of that is the passing offense and the quarterback play and you know, just the way Auburn did things. But I really struggled with him because he's just not an instinctive player. Uh yet, now can he get there? Can he you know, be type some type of home run threat? Maybe, because again he's this speed is ridiculous. But where you draft a

guy like that? I don't know. I mean he he just missed the cut for me. Uh you know, I when I cut it off. The guys that just missed my top twenty were Frank Darby at Arizona State, Schwartz out of Auburn, Cornell, Pal Clemson, Stevenson Houston. So uh, those types of guys. Um. I wanted to answer the other question, the high floor player. UM, I think a

high floor Day three guy Trevon Grimes out of Florida. Um, you know, not a great separator, but uh, you know a guy that can go up snare the football and you know, just he's gonna be a really solid, you know, fourth or fifth receiver and then it woul't surprise me at all if he ends up being uh you know, getting some starting reps and getting more playing time. He just he's a high floor guy. Was he a guy at the Senior Bowl that kind of stuck out to you?

Is that that solid high floor type of prospects. Yeah? Yeah, him and another guy that did his Does Fitzpatrick out of Louisville. You know, we talked. I had a lot about two two out well. His teammate who another one of those guys who's tiny but he can he can really run. Does Fitzpatrick. He might not be elite in anything, but he's pretty good across the board, Like its just

hard to find weaknesses in his game. So Does Fitzpatrick's a good player who not gonna get drafted probably until day three, but I think he's a high four player,

can't real quick. I want to weigh in on this Schwartz thing again because there's a play in a game, and granted, bow Knicks is not like the greatest distributor of the football, and I'm not crazy about either of the Opera wide receivers, but there's a play in a game where he's running a wheel route and it's clearly like a design play where he's the number one option. It's very clear, and the ball is thrown to his inside shoulder and he's looking out of bounds towards the sideline,

and I was like, dude, what are you looking at? Man? It's like you thought the football was going to be over here at the water cooler, Like, dude, the guy like and it wasn't like a great throw by bow knicks, not many r but like the ball is thrown like he was trying to hit him on his inside shoulder and he's looking out towards the sideline. It was amazing. I was just like, what's he doing? Did you ever figure out what he was looking at? I never found out?

Like maybe lead Corso Corso? Yeah, that's interesting. Hey, I mean it happens sometimes. Lee Corso's allegedd for a reason. How about that. Let's go ahead and take our second break. When we come back, I want to talk about some defensive line guys and maybe get some thoughts on Jeff's hate for Gregory Rousseau and maybe some of these other guys that we've had some trouble with on the defensive line when we returned here on the Draft Show presented

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Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Back here for the final segment of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, presented by Miller Light, Kyle Yeoman's Kevin Kat Turner, Dame Brugler in the Great Mister Captain Trade Down, Jeff Cavanaugh as always, and Captain trade down. You know, Jeff, you did put that in our WebEx that we're using to communicate virtually at the moment. Is Captain trade Down riding again? Because I haven't gotten an update over the

last couple weeks. Oh, I think he consistently is trying to get on the horse. But I gotta tell you he has second and third thoughts all the time. Because some people hate draft simulators, like my buddy Votch absolutely despises draft simulators. I have done probably six hundred thousand draft simulations for this year on my YouTube page. So like, will I love trade down until you trade down and all the guys you thought you were trading down for are gone? And then Captain trade down is an idiot?

So am I Captain trade down? Yes? All the way to like fifteen, and that's about as far as I want to go, because then jac Horne's gone and somebody takes Barmore and you're like, okay, so now the corners are gone, Barmore's gone, Slater and Sewel are gone, and you're going, what in the hell did I t down for? So Captain trade doown does live? But he lives very tepidly. He stall Gregory Russo sitting there for you, Yeah, grew up a thing. I would take Gregory Rousseau right there

at the top of the fourth round. Okay, top of the fourth round. Interesting for Gregory Rousseau is a bad player, Okay. And I know we've talked about this before, but we talked about it with Bucky Brooks the other day, and I want to get you and Bucky on the same show at some point and then we can really get into this. But you have strong thoughts about Gregory Rousseau, but I want to kind of take it generally into the defensive line because it's not a strong defensive tackle class.

If Christian Barbour is not there, should you have trade back? If you're the Dallas Cowboys, then all of a sudden, you're kind of dry from a defensive line standpoint. But is there anybody else to get you excited? Or is everybody kind of overhyped? Is that why Gregory Russo's in that conversation. I don't, honestly, I mean, I'm I'm being letely honest here. I don't know why he would be in the conversation. There's nothing I've seen from him that puts him in a conversation in the first round. So

I don't know, Like I get it. If you want to talk about Zizagu Larry, I get it. If you want to talk about Jayalen Phillips or Quitty Pay, I get it. If you want to talk about Carlos Basham. I like Peyton Turner at Houston and Joseph Osa and Ronnie Perkins. I like a lot of people before I get to Gregory Rousseau. So I don't know what puts him in the conversation other than he's tall and long. Dang,

what puts him in the conversation. I don't necessarily disagree with what a lot of jeff is saying because I'm not. I don't love Gregor Rousseau. I am intrigued by him as a prospect, but I do not like him as a player right now. Maybe I'll phrase it that way. You know, he's a faith based projection, That's what he is. He's still very much learning how to play the position, how to make it in fact impact from snap to snap. His I like his instincts. I think he has some

natural instincts to him, and I like his traits. He's long, he's got a frame that you can mold, and you know he's a he has some athleticism to him, So, you know, can he evolve into a stylistically speaking, a Chandler Jones type, you know, just not Chaneley Jones, but that style of Russia? Can't he evolve into that in a couple of years. Yeah, I think that's that it gets possible. But again that's a faith based projection. You are banking on a guy that hasn't necessarily shown a

lot of what you're hoping to see. He hasn't shown it up to this point, so he needs to work on it. So um, you know, it's it's tough here, Jeff, let me throw this at you. Who would you rather have Jason Oway, who is a you know, verified free but zero sacks last year, or Gregor Rousseau who had all the production in the world last time he was on the field, but you know, obviously still figuring out how to play the position, and there's a lot of

a lot of projection involved. So which which one of those two players would you be more confident about hitting at the next level. I think I would take o way, which is wild. I would take the zero SAT guy over the fifteen and a half SAT guy because I think, to me, his awesome, awesome athleticism is what I would want to give to my coaching staff as opposed to Rousseau's body, right, because that's what we're comparing, is athleticism versus body type. Sure, I would go away, now I would.

I mean, I have Oa ranked higher than Rousseau just so I agree. I have Owa three spots higher than Rousseau at the moment as well. But I mean, there are a lot of guys in that conversation, But is it really in Katie. I want your thought on this as well. But they're not a not even a home run. I know there's no home run. There's no Chase Young in this draft. But where does this draft of edge rushers and even defensive tackles rank and compared to classes

in the past. Because the more I go down the list, the more I don't like it compared to maybe even the classes of twenty twenty, twenty nineteen and so on and so forth. Yeah, it's just kind of identify those drafts where a Miles Garrett and a Chase Young and a Bosa brother didn't go in the top few picks like I remember, and I this is tough because I don't have the years. It's gonna be tough for me.

But I remember the Derek Barnett year and there might have been someone great that went ahead of him, but Derek Barnett and people were talking about him. Alts Garrett was in that draft. Yeah, so Miles Garrett was the first, but Derek Barnett was there, and I was going, I'm not sure why everyone likes Derek Barnett is the second defensive end of the draft. And I just didn't. I didn't. I didn't love Derek Barnett and what he went fourteen or fifteen or seventeen or whatever kind of in that mix.

I used to have photographic memory, Kyle, but I'm old now. Us once you cross that threshold of thirty, the sharpness goes away. So like to me, I mean, we've we've seen we've seen drafts like that, and that's where I think it's more important to figure out guys that maybe you're unsure of. Like, for instance, I've got a guy who I like a little bit. I think he's potentially a top one hundred guy, but every time I go back and watch him I still end up with the

hands up shoulder shrug emoji. It's Washington's Joe Trying. I mean, he is a guy who's been very difficult for me because I don't fully know what he is. But I like his body, I like his effort. I like a lot of his tape. I think like him. I'm trying hard to like him, Jeff, I'm trying hard. I think he can set the edge sometimes, you know, like I think.

I think he's not a super bendy guy. There are times when he drives me insane because he will beat the offensive tackle, but instead of turning bending that thing off, he is flying ten yards up the field, like, dude, the quarterback's not gonna drop back fifteen yards. As Jeff said with the pun of the Day, brought to you by Miller Lite. I'm trying to like him, but I don't know. So if you guys have seen him, let

me know. Yeah. I do like Joe Trying. He's been a top fifty guy for me since the summer, and I don't I don't know that I love him as like a top twenty five, top thirty guy, but I like him somewhere in that thirty to fifty range. You know, he's just a a little bit of work in progress, there's no doubt, but I think he has the tools where you know, he just you streamlined those pass rush

skills a little bit. You can get him some more, some more coaching, and you know, he reminds me a lot of is Marcus ut say just what you can do up m H. So as long as you know gets In Turner as the eighth the eighth pass rusher in this draft, I mean that's that's pretty good. If you can get Ronnie Perkins as the ninth or tenth

guy drafted, that's great. Even in the Day three when you've got guys like you know, Quincy Roche, Like Quincy Roche is a guy that you know I saw popping up in first round mocksun like I just don't see it. But you know that's because you know, the NFL sees them more as a third or fourth round or not a first rounder. So if I can get him early in the fourth, then awesome. Chauncey Golston from Iowa. He might not be one of the top fifteen or said, he may not be a pass russure, but he's a

good player. He's there, he can be disruptive. I mean, hey, when you have that length, I mean you can You're gonna be part of a rotation in the NFL for a long time. So again, I think within context, this pass rush class has a lot to offer. You're not going to find a Miles Garrett in this group, but if you're looking for some quality players, they're going to carve out careers in this league. This group has has some guys. Really quickly, before we kind of wrap things

up here, you mentioned Quincy Rochet. You said fourth round. Did I hear that right? Yeah? Well, I think with the way he helped himself the Senior Bowl, I think he has a good chance to go top one hundred now. But okay, I mean people tried to say it he was like a first round pick like in the fall, and it just that was never the case. Never I grade it personally, just me and I know this, A lot of people are on the league graded him as the fourth round pick. And then with the way he

played the Senior Bowl. Uh, you know, I gave him a little bit more of a of a bump based off of how we played. But you know, he's a I think he's a borderline top one hundred guy, so

maybe late third, early fourth. I had him as a late second, early third, So I mean I might be wrong on that one, but I think he did help because I had him a little bit higher than what you had him prior to the Senior Bowl, and then the Senior Bowl elevated him a little bit more than that because I thought he had a good week down in Mobile. Any other guys we want to talk about before we wrap things up in terms of these pass rushers? Kat Oh, Well, I want to throw the ball to Jeff.

Jeff'son Marlin guy. I want Jeff to talk about his guy. Marlin. Oh, that's not a pass rusher though, that's my defense. That's my defensive tackle. You mean that's better, the better USC defensive tackle out of the two we're talking d lineman today. All Right, we're good. I agree. I agree he's better. He's fifty player in this draft? Is that how you? Okay? Marlin tool Loui Potu, I doubt that's it, Hue to Lopo, I don't even know. I'm all over the place to

tell me about him. Jeff two. He's three hundred and five pounds and one of the things I really like with my defensive tackles as I like the guys who make you type the words violent hands, and I think that that's him. I think, even though he's three hundred and five pounds, that he's one of those guys that will man handle some single blockers. He's just so hard to sustain a block on he's active. I think he is better suited to help an NFL team than at

least when I was starting to do the work. I feel like his teammate Jay Tufele, who opted out this year, was the more talked about d tackle. They have the same build, but Marlon t to me, is just a more consistent, more powerful, more heavy handed guy that I think is totally worth to me, like a third round pick and stick him in the middle of your defense and have some fun. Sounds like fun to me. Any of those guys that could potentially come in and I'm

sure up the run game, sure up the defense. The Cowboys need a one technique, probably more so than they need a three technique because you have like four of them on the roster already. So let's go find a one technique. Maybe some pass rush depth at the edge spot. Two and then let's figure it out defensively. But that's gonna do it for us here on the Draft Show.

Make sure and tune in next Thursday ten am Central Time with these guys back in action, and then also Tuesday at ten a m Bucky Brooks, Bryan brought us, and the great David Hellman joining us on Tuesdays. But for now, it's that's it for us. Chris Bean back in studio for Kevin Kat Turner, Jeff Cavana on Dame Bruegler. I'm Kyle Yelmans. We'll see you next time on The Draft Show, presented by Miller Lite. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.