Draft Show: Ranking The Top Wide Receivers

all things NFL Draft. You have the Draft Show with Dan Brugler from CBS Sports and Dallas Cowboys dot Com, David Hellman from Dallas Cowboys dot Com and now a veteran, a two time veteran of draft or Pro Day coverage, Yea Baylor and I need you, yeah, rapping wrapping them up. Good job on all that. Probably one one more week of Pro Days, one more weeks, one more week next week ago what A and M and uh Memphis, Yeah, Memphis were getting We're getting close to teams, We're getting

close to visits. I feel we're getting close to that time where like when you've studied enough, you're like I know it or I don't you know and shut the book and you're like whatever, let's do this. Well, that's that's our show. I mean, we're gonna try twenty seven days. I know. It's when we're looking at German wide receivers. Yeah, we're talking about that. Don't ruin that, all right, that's coming up later in the show. I heard, Okay, well that's a nice tease. Dave Good Radio right there again

the Draft Show here from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. I got all the scouting guys involved here. Ken Garrison, Executive producer, Um, I want to jump in like I always do. Dan, you and I were talking about this earlier. Polarizing players. Yeah, yeah, players that make us pause or make us fight, like hell yeah, create debate, And I was interested in some of your thoughts about that because you and I and I like it when I don't see eyed eye with you guys, and I loved it when I was working

in draft rooms and I didn't see eyed eye. But we needed to come to a consensus. Sure, we're in a political year right now, we're trying to figure these guys out. But I think it's important though, as we start to build this draft board, as we start to look at these guys, you know you gotta put your feelings aside. Once that's over with, but talk about what

you feel like though. I mean, you know, when when we work through this, as we go along and you and I talk about Bosa and guys like that, and we get you know, we just kind of and it's not that I think you're wrong, and I'm sure it's not maybe you think I'm wrong, but but talk about a little bit your feelings on that. Well. It's one of the reasons the drafts is so fun is because two sets of eyes can see totally different things, you know, and ice cream exactly, I call that, say that all

the time. And so we talked about We talked to Joey Bosa to death. You know, I like him a lot. You don't like him as much. I think, you know, mister Hellman somewhere in the middle. That's fair. Yeah, So, you know, and there's a lot of those types of guys this year. Um, so let's go through a few of them and you know, kind of debate where we think they are. One guy is really interesting, West Virginia's safety Carl Joseph. You know, if you put on the highlights,

you know, watch him against Oklahoma last year. He's Earl Thomas. Yeah, the way he flies around the field, but he also has some negative place. He's also coming off a knee injury, and there's a lot of things you have to worry about there. But you know, there are a lot of people that like him, think he's one of the best defensive backs in this class. May I ask if we're bringing this up because of what mister Riddick said on TV, and Lewis is one of them. I mean, he has

a lot of fans out there. He has a ton of fans, so and he top top draft, top defensive back in the draft. That's amazing to me. And that's if you watch the highlights, he's Earl Thomas. But it's hard for me to get on that train when you watch the entire tape and he's flying around, missing these tackles. He's putting himself out of position because he's sure over aggressive, sure that it works against him. I mean, his best

trait is his aggressiveness. That's also his worst trait. It's also the thing that when you do you will watch him fly forward in a hurry, I mean like it's a blue blur coming for the football and then all of a sudden. He is four yards passed the ball care and the ball care is going up the field, and you're going, wait a minute, he just Okay, he three plays ago he made that tackle. Right now he's missing that tackle. I was surprised Lewis went that route

on him, though. I really draft value on Karl Joseph until I saw that on TV saying he's the best defensive back in the draft. I was under the impression he was like a consensus thirty to fifty type pick. That's where I would have pegged him. Yeah, I had him in the second round. Yeah, and I don't know if if if, and I don't think it's Brian Broadest. Looking at highlights, I see I see some value there.

I do see a guy. I do see a guy that the ball does gravitate towards him, interceptions, balls, fumbles, he's around the football like his highlights again, and his highlights are like really impressive too, because he kills me. He does. Yeah, he just he does. He is a blur. He is a blue blur when they when they play. Maybe my biggest disappointment of the Senior Bowl was that he pulled out of it. He was supposed to be there. Wasn't he his knee? Yeah, yeah, he's not right. He

couldn't work out of the combine. Yeah, at the combine. He's why aren't we talking about that? Well, I mean that's part of it. That's definitely part of it, because he's I asked him at combine, you know, when do you think he'll be back on or ready to go? And he said, well, hopefully by training camp. Now that that was a little a little bell went off, like great training camp. That's not a good well, and we'll know more about it. You know, we got we got

the rechecks coming up on the floor. You seem like you don't have him as a second round or a player in the thirty to fifty range. I have him in an early third because, look, your safety is your last line of defense. Yeah, Okay, he's a guy you need to rely on, and he's going to give you those splash plays, and so you have to you know, wigh the splash plays, the positive plays with the plays he's going to give up, and so you know, what's better to have a boring safety who just kind of

does everything. Okay, Bell exactly not gonna not gonna make a lot of mental mistakes, but you're not really going to create either. Or is it better to have a Karl Joseph who is going to create some action, but he's also gonna miss it as well. And safeties are tough because again they're the last line of defense. You have to be able to trust them. It's a fine line there. And Karl Joseph, he's a very interesting test case. And you throw in the knee injury. That's why I

have an early third on him. Yes, this, where do you have cash? He's he's in that late second, early third. Yeah, he's a little different because he needs he needs. For one team, he might be a late second or early third, but for another team he might be you know, a fourth or a fifth because of the way that he'd be used. You know, he needs that Dion Buchanan role where he's going to be hunting downhill versus a run. I don't trust him in reverse, right, and he plays

a lot in the slot. Yeah, exactly right, but you know I want him against the run. So in the right situation, in the right scheme, he's worth a late second, early third. And the reason I asked that is because he does tackle. He is consistent tackle yeah, but he doesn't also doesn't have the rain, but he doesn't have

the rain nearly that Joseph. I was just trying to get a gauge because I have cash on my board the third round, so I was trying to gauge if you have if you have Joseph in the third round. I was trying to see, so you obviously have do you have him like a cash like a round later I have. Let me look at Ramsey's my number one safety, right, Vaughn Bell's number two at the second round grade and then I've got three guys in that late second, early

third that's Karl, Joseph, Kean O'Neil, and uh Jeremy Cash. Okay, give me range, cash money. It's Lindsay cash drop right there. I have a feeling give me a range every day, especially on this team, because that's what they don't have at safety here. Yeah, and if he makes some mistakes, that's fine. I mean it's not fine. You know what I mean? Oh, Dave, don't say that. I go be sitting in hinds field and Joseph comes running up and misses a player want to pull up and you want

to pull up the tape of JJ Wilcox. Oh sure, but I hear you. I hear crying every game almost and especially on the road, and you're like, oh god, he's gonna tackle today? Yeah? Does? He takes horrible angles and he doesn't have any range. Okay, doesn't get to the ball. Okay, he doesn't. Does he get to the ball ever? I mean, hey, I'm just saying he doesn't. I'm saying you're saying you're not giving the guy with rage and you're not going to complain. I'll deal with

the mistakes if he's capable speaking of it. And I know you want to get to another guy to talk about Neil a little bit. Now, there's a guy that kind of will miss on you a little but has ranged right when he hits you, you feel it, you do. He plays He's one of those guys that misses a tackle and then the next three plays he is hurting

somebody because he plays mad. Yeah, you could tell on tape he's playing mad because his teammates are trying and he's just he didn't want anything to do with his teammates. He's just kind of, you know, going back to the huddle, get away from me. Yeah, because he plays mad. He's a decleter. He looks to take the ball carrier and just eliminate him, a separate man from ball. What I don't love about Neil is single digit passes defense over his career. Uh not gonna get make a lot of

plays on the ball in the air. Um, too much spacing when you you know, put him a man coverage. But he's a solid player. I think he'd be a starter in this league. Okay, I get some other guys on that. You know a guy we've talked about before, U Baylor's Corey Coleman. Ah, Yeah, I mean I know this is a player that I think could be a first round pick. I put him up there. I know you're not as high as him, and you're not alone. I mean, there are a lot of people that have

strong concerns just coming from that offense. Is that the biggest reason why you're not as high in Corey Coleman? You know what, I saw a guy that I thought was short on tape, short and as far as height, yeah, I didn't see yet stature I didn't see. Again, he's not a big guy. Yeah. And you were at the and you were and you were at the Baylor pro day. Yeah, your impressions of him, he wowed me. I was really impressed.

I mean it's funny like whenever you see a guy or watch something or you get this experience, you know, like, yeah, Brian Broad is telling you something in your head, just get a foggy brain for I mean, I would have taken Corey Coleman not at four, but I certainly I'm not. I'm not gonna be surprised if he's a first round pick. I think he's that good. And I know the Baylor thing scares a lot of people, but sure, I and yeah, he's definitely he's not tall. I mean, what what's do

y'all have a Yeah, he measured five. I thought he was. Listen, I thought he was a five nine guy. I thought he was a f And then, like Dane says, so you watch him and half the time he's not doing anything. I hate to make this comparison because he's so good and so explosive, but like, everything from his demeanor to his versatility reminds me of Odell Beckham a little bit.

I know that that's I hate that, and I know that's why people hate making much because that's just the vibe that I get, And honestly, I think he between his speed and his versatility, I think he can do a little bit of that. You know, I think a lot of people probably see him as a slot guy, but I think he could line up outside too. I've had multiple scouts tell me they see Steve Smith. Yeah, that's it. That's a great comparison to the third round pick. Still,

Steve Smith was a bad man. That guy. Let me tell you what he is. He's got some hindes warding him, that Steve Smith. And I love hin kinds word has some Steve Smith, and I mean Steve Smith. I think. I'm mean Odell Beckham is the new hotness in the NFL. But I think that's a more flattering comparisons being Yeah. Absolutely, you can make a case he's Hall of Fame work. Yeah. So anyway, so what it was, what do you think? Well, I mean, that's it goes. Part of it is, you know,

he's running such a basic route tree. It's unchallenged routes. It's half field reads in that Baylor offense, so it is tough to get a true read. Keep preaching day, But I just I think there's too much athleticism and aggressiveness and just pure want to that. I don't think. I don't see how he's going to be simply an

average player in the NFL. I mean, I think he can be at worst, you know, a low end starter and a player that's gonna push for Pro Bowls because he just he finds a way to be productive and make an impact. I mean twenty touchdowns in the first like ten games last year, of all of all of the all right, I mean you got were universally agree that tread Well's the top receiver. Yeah, he'll probably be gone by fifteen or so. Ye, So of that pack of guys after that, you got your Coleman, you got

your Docks, and you got your toast, your fuller. Rank them where, because I I feel I would probably put Coleman first in that group. I'm with you. I've got uh tread Rolls number one, and then Corey Coleman, Dockson Thomas. I have those three guys. I have very close late first early second round grades on all three of them. I went Dotson, Thomas, Coleman not a fan. I'm just telling you. And you have Coleman in your second or third. I had him. I had him in the second round. Come, hey,

that's we're talking about molar rising guys. I mean, yeah, got a low. There are plenty of people that are not sold on Corey. See, you guys make an interesting argument because when you start comparing somebody to Steve Smith. For me, but that freaks me out though, because you're comparing to him a possible Hall of Fame player. He's never played in the NFL. But I just hey, there's stings you're going back to. Look at. There's things about Coleman.

You see throwing him to football and there you see the explosiveness and the speed and all that. With the ball in his hands. I think he's got better hands than the Baylor prospect that we're familiar with as well. Well the ball, the ball gets on this guy. I know, we know that. We we talked, we had draft shows talking about saying, yeah, you know people here you know that always said they're like, don't draft him. He went to Baylor, Karence went to Baylor. Like that he's a

different player. That's not that's not true. Actually was a past to Beasley. Yeah, thanks, coach. Polarizing players. Um let's do another one. Arkansas running back are y'all gonna be okay, They're like, are y'all gonna fight right now? No, No, they're sure. There are people that y'all got into it about this guy at the combine. I remember it decidly. Yeah, Alex Collins for some people as a second round player, is are you one of those people? I don't have

him in the second round. My only second round back is Dixon. Where do you have him? Third? Okay? I thought you were gonna say fourth, Yeah, I'm the third round. Well, there are a lot of people that love him in the second Yeah, I like Dixon Moore in the second. Yeah. A lot of people think that we're gonna be talking about Collins as duking it out with Henry to be the number two running back drafted. Yeah, which Collins. Excuse me to say that again, Collins and Henry taking it

out with Derek be the second running back back. I don't I know, it's it's it's it's it's Dixon or Henry. It's Dixon or Henry. I feel what do you say? What do you you're smirking at me? I don't like when you smirk it. I'm with you. I have I have a late third, early fourth on Collins. Oh okay, I'm not I'm not sold. He's the top one hundred guy at all. But see, the polarising guy you should have brought up was Henry. Well, it's a polarizing guy, but Collins is College is like, Okay, I can live

with it. If you want to argue, I'll argue with you about Henry. But I'm saying there are plenty of people are gonna be the number two running back drafts. Oh so you're kicking some people in the in the you know what because of they think of Collins. Right, not just polarizing in this room, but polar rising. Run the people I talked to run the league, you know people I trust. People think that Collins could be the number two running back drafted a second round pick. That

would be a shocker for me. That's like a look up, Like whoa that card gets. We're sitting here and by the way, our draft coverage, we're going wall to wall on our draft coach. We're gonna do the same exact thing we did last year. We're gonna sit here until every single picks made and talk about it. So when that card gets handed in in the second round, you're gonna think. I think we'll all do that. Well, this

man right here, he'll have a heart attack. We'll say some stuff that and I don't need him to go away good or really bad. About a year. It'll be great. Dane will get real quiet. Running Backs are always tough, because I remember last year we talked about running backs at Nazi. Yeah, I mean the second third round and the order they came off. You know, TJ Yelden was the first one, and then I think Abdullah Can't was next. Yeah, you know, Tevin Coleman fell a little bit, Duke Johnson

fell up it. So I mean with these these running backs, I wouldn't besides Zeke at number one, I don't think we can get too locked into an order after that. I mean after Zeko's number. Sure, we can't just follow my I know that's the way it should fall. It's not going to We're gonna see some surprise. Guarantee it guarantee we're gonna see with these running backs. He see Dan, I think he's running. We're in April now and he's

starting to talk to some people here. I'm liking DeVante Booker as a second running back drafted would you be really that surprised. No, honestly, I would that I would. I would not Booker Collins. I would. Y'all are the y'all are the gurus. But I'm gonna be a little bit surprised if Henry's not the second running back taken, I think everything, and he'll do a handstand and cheer and no, I'll you know, a third round grade on. Well, I don't know why this is surprising. I told you

only have one back in the second round. That's third. Yeah, okay, I don't know why this is surprising you, because we've been saying since February that, like after Zeke, you just have this disgusting jumble back. It's clearly a second running back. You had Dixon in the third earlier this year. We've had no no about this. I did say we had to do something. He's a better player. Yeah, you guys don't know running backs. That's the issue, however, man. I

like though. I like the fact that we brought up collins name though. But the thing that worries me about Collins is I don't see him catching the ball. No, I don't see him blocking very well. Give me the guy that could do it. All my biggest worries the fumbles. Hey, let me give you a little heads up. There's a there's a NFC running back coach that was nice catching running back coach in the AFC saw this little quote he compared Zeke. He says he's got the same traits

as Peterson. He says, you can't punch holes in Peterson. That's one of those you can't punch holes in Zeke people a pretty strong huh yeah, really strong person. Is just a freak. Though it might be the same guy like Collins though too, how about that though, I mean, that's a coach coming out. You know, hopefully it's not a rookie AFC running back coach. It might be one of those very cats. That's tough because Peterson's just such a freak athletically, just the way he's built. I agree

with that, But can't you don't Zeke out. He's not the freakish athlete that Peterson, but he's still capable of doing all the same things, right, I mean, he is a complete back. Who can take twenty five about Girly last year the ball blocks? Who do you have a higher grade? I love Girly, I love I love girly. So if they're both, you're fantasy drafting, you're taking girly over zeke By just because I know, not even thinking about it. Yeah, I'm thinking about it girls in this

draft draft. And then it's gonna be the same argument. We're doing the show next year from a really nice, beautiful studios over there, and Dane's neck of the woods, Leonard Fournett's going one. Overall, they're gonna be talking about running backs. All you folks. Are all these folks out there don't want to take a running back? Betty, here

we go. Well, yeah, there's no shortage in Oklahoma. There's no shortage of people on Twitter and elsewhere who want to avoid running back this year, specifically because it's a stock class. Everybody's happy. Okay, you're the guy that follows the mock drafts and the fandom and all that. Everybody, would everybody cheer? Would there be a big cheer for Elliot if he's take, would would everybody just go ballist? I think not ballistic, but I think the the reaction

would be overwhelmingly positive. But there would be no small number of people who would be aggravated or frustrated by it too. Especially. I think that's why anything is going to happen with this pick. So well, I said that last night. I said that last night. Well, I think there's one guy who really nobody would complain about, and I think it's Ramsey. Yeah, I think Ramsey. I think ninety nine percent of people would be happy with that pick.

Polarizing players to those quarterbacks. Oh yeah, the moment. I mean you were nice not to mention him because that's an easy it's an easy thing to do. I didn't want to go into Christian I mean, that's here forever. We're gonna get it. We're gonna get into hack. God, you'm worrying about it. All right, we need to take our first break of the day. When we come back, we will have a little Twitter on the twenty, So stay tuned. You got the Draft show from the s

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the We're back here the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian Broadest, Dame Brugler, David Hellman. Looking to my left in our control room, I see Derek Eagleton, the boss of all things good for us and folks happier, looks happy, looks happy. But folks need to go on Twitter and thank Derek. He's the one that came up with that whole idea about three days of draft coverage wall to wall, and so he's the guy you need to think. We're gonna do that once again, and we're all excited about that.

We're also excited a couple of different things. Dame Bruglers put out his sixty Elite Draft guide right there, Dane, you can talk about that a little bit. Yeah, this is UH can find this on Amazon dot Com. You can find in Barnes and Noble can find it a few other stores. This is one of the more casual fan you know, it goes up the top sixty guys in this draft, some really cool pictures, goes in death

and then My Beast comes out on Monday. Yeah, next go and that's yeah, four hundred and fifty prospects deep. That'll be on I'll put out the link out on Twitter. Yeah, make sure you're following DP Brugler to get that link. That's a must have as you're following the NFL draft. These cats are going to pick some people that you don't know about. Dane does know about him. He's gonna have some, you know, some reports for you there. He's also going to be in studio with us talking about

these guys each picks. We also got Star magazine. Now this is the last year's issue. We got all our information in on it, going through the players. There'll be stories, there'll be mock draft. Dane's contributing, Dave's in it. Everybody all hands on deck. This should be coming out here in the next couple of weeks. You could buy individual copies of that as well. You ought to also buy the Star magazine a subscription for the year because a lot of great things going on with that as well.

So a couple different ways of falling along the NFL Draft on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and then through our guides and things that we have here. Okay, it's that time of day where I thank ed Cahill for coming up with this, and I turn over to David Helmet. It is Twitter. On the Twitter, Dane gave me a really great segue right at the end of the first segment. He talked about Christian Hackenburg, who the Cowboys reportedly worked out privately. There you go, yeah, uh what. First of all,

I want to talk about that too. It seems like they have been leaning way more on these private workouts and not so much the pro day's. Is the reasoning for that the high quality, high placement of their pick. Also, John wants to know if he's a realistic option at thirty four? Is that too rich for Hackenburg? I have him in the third myself, and again they don't care what we think, but myself, I have him the third. I could understand why they're doing their due diligence on

these quarterbacks though, because he's in that mix. Once you get past those top three that everybody have has on their board, and I guarantee the Cowboys will bring all three of those guys in as well on that thirty visit. They were going to figure this thing out. But the the the reason why they do the workout by themselves is they could They could incorporate their routes, they can incorporate their ops, they can incorporate their terminology, a lot

of stuff, find out how this kid really ticks. And I think that's the important thing. You can go to a pro day like we did yesterday at TCU and watch boy can just kind of throw the ball around in the scripted workout, but if you really really want to get to know the kid, have him do some of your passes to see if he can do that. That's why this is important absolutely And you know, the Pro Day, like you said, it's scripted, so you know there's no you should look awesome as a quarterback going

through a pro day workout. That's why come to me quarterback Pro Day workouts being really just absolutely nothing. But for the teams to individually work out these players, you know, they can tell them what routes they want exactly. Do the full round tree. They want to do, they want to see certain things. It's unrehearsed stuff exactly. It's total unrehearsed to undersnap, rollout whatever you want to do, you

can make them do that. So I think it's it's it's smart for these for the Cowboys to be going through each one of these quarterbacks, working them out and just finding out more about them. This is that age old issue though. I mean you have you have hack as a third round grade too, right, but later late fourth boom. I mean I don't but if you want him, you probably have to take him a thirty fourth when that's what I was gonna say, is I mean we

talk about that all the time. Quarterbacks are probably overvalued by like a full round because so always on a draft board that realistically, No, I don't over under five quarterbacks draft in the first two rounds over or over under five quarterbacks first two, three, four? Yeah probably over yeah, all right, so I think the top three and then you throw in Cook throwing Hackenburg, probably Cardale Jones and that somewhere in that second. Don't discount the precept kid

from I like North Carolina State. I know, I know, and I know you're gonna give me that look, and that's fine. But again, I'm like you though, this time year you get to talk to some people. Oh yeah, he's got a lot of fans. Yeah, and you get a lot and you don't don't, don't discount because there I think there's like three levels of these guys. You talked about the Cooks and the Hackenburgh and those guys.

There's like three different levels of quarterbacks. Don't you think it's like a little bit ego too, Like we we can fix him, we got this dad. Ego always gets you trouble. Then they'll be coaching at some other place when that ego gets in the way. Right, Aaron's got a really good question between his measurables and his everything

about him really. William Jackson third, I mean, he's he seems like he should be in the conversation for like top corner in the draft, but you kind of see him more so toward the back end of the first round. What's what's holding him back? Why? Why is that or or where do you see him? For the right defense? I think he will be the top corner in the draft on certain draft boards, right, you know, And I think just comes down to what kind of scheme do

you run? Because William Jackson, he's the best corner in this draft. With his back to the ball, he does an outstanding job of feeling the pass, making a play. He finds the ball really well. He closes on routes, so if you want him the press, he can do that. But he's just a little bit different type a player when he's playing off plan zone. Doesn't have that, you know, the lower body twitch to you know, really make up ground a small spaces. He more a long strider, So yes,

a little different. So I think for some teams he will be the number one corner on the draft board, But it just depends on schemes. You know what teams will like about this guy. You could throw on tape and he's knocking the ball down. There's a lot of times you'll watch some of this tape and then and you never see a guy knock a ball down. Yeah,

you'll see him cover all day. Twenty eight passes defended this past year, and that tells you a little bit like, well, you know, teams are throwing the ball at him though as well, Yeah, they were trying to, they were trying to. They felt like teams felt like they can make plays on this guy. He's That's why I think, excuse me, Dave, the measurables, the things that dates some about some of

the traits. He's absolutely right about this kid. But the thing that I think teams like is you could actually see him knocking the ball down. Yeah. I think he's one of those guys that we saw as a possibility for thirty four a month ago, and now I get the idea that that's not realistic late that teams and looking at him in the late one, Yeah, I was killed it and I and I and I you know, I'll mock him every time they mocked him. It might have been you. Somebody mocked him as high as fourteen.

Ye have him going to Oakland right now? Yeah, I mean now, they took a Houston receiver, they took a Houston corner before. Hey, that was that was kind of my big thing. Don't don't get caught up at the Houston part. Because William Jackson's a good player. By trapped in an LSU corner here exactly, Hey, yeah, exactly, Uh, simple man. Notre Dame had their protay yesterday. Yeah, he wants some information about Procis and his fit here. What you think about him, I know you like him a lot.

I do like him a lot. He's a top five back in this class. Yeah, I believe no doubt about that. And and the thing about pro Sis that I like. I think he's learning how to be a running back. I mean when you talk that he just but he looked comfortable. He looked comfortable last year at Notre Dame when they handed him to football, he took it between the tackles. He's able to bounce it outside. I love his I love his uh, his demeanor with carrying the football.

I think he finishes runs. I think when he gets near the goal line and he gets in the end zone, and I think he could run himself in and out of trouble. He's got the juice. He has got some juice. And I could see somebody taking him and him having a nice long career being an every down. I think people will develop him. He's he's got the arrow old scouting arrow going up. Guy. He's got arrow going up because he's he can learn and he's and he's proven though at Notre Dame in a big time stage, that

he can can handle that on that swing. He's still developing his run tempo in sting, especially between the tackles. But you see, I mean he'll feel for a player that never played running back until a few weeks before the sounds field, Yeah, he has it. And we know he can catch the ball in the backfield. Right. He was Notre Dame Special Teams Player of the Year last year, so he can play special teams as well. So I mean there's a lot of times that you like about

him that. Yeah, he's a top five back in this class. Dang ye the third, third round. I had him in the third Yeah. Uh. Word coming out this week that San Diego told Miles Jack that they see him as a safety. Justin wants to know what you think about his I mean so much if you're well, you want that's he wants a comparison. I guess a comparison Ramsey and Jack. I mean, we talk about Jack all the time,

and we talk about him as a linebacker. I mean, if you're planning on playing him exclusively at safety, is he still that high of a pick? Is he worth a top five pick if you're going to play him at safety? I say, I don't, I don't, I don't know he's not a traditional safety hard you know, he needs answered that. I realize if you're gonna play him at safety, you're it's got to be a hybrid version

of a safety. You know, it's got to be something where uh you know, he's lined up over the slot receiver or he's playing a lot close to the line of scrimmage. I don't want Miles Jack single high. Could he do it? Sure? He god, I mean there's nothing he can't. He could play quarterback for my team, right, you know he can do it all. But in terms of maximize his value and what his strengths are and

what he does best, I want him the slot. I want him close the line of scrimmage, so he can you know, show that off that range versus run, uh, you know, making plays in the perimeter, covering guys dropping. So I mean, could he play safety? Sure, but I think you're not using his strengths. I think I'm gonna steal some words out of your mouth because I think you said it yesterday. Is that you get him near the ball? Yeah you won't want him, right? Yeah, you

won't him? Yeah? Why would you allow offenses to dictate where you play him? Right? They spread you out and all of a sudden, No, No, he's his safety and he's gonna go walk in coverage and you do something else on the other side of the field and he's over here standing, you know, not doing anything. No, his strength is being around the ball. Whatever you can do to put him nearer the ball, you're helping your team

playing his safety. It's just and I asked, I asked them NFL people, but I would you lean Miles Jack up and haven't play safety and that? And because I knew the answer, I knew the answer, just what I gave you. Why would you remove him from the defense? Sure? And that's exactly what these these guys were saying. It's not that he can't do it, because he can, right, but it's just, you know, to maximize his value and

his strengths. Absolutely, play through the line. Yeah, close to Yeah, get me, get me right by the In the middle of all that, Aaron just literally just tweeted something to Miles Jack being big Nickel and I actually love that a lot. I mean, yeah, bring that on all day. Yeah. I had a guy. I had a guy did the day on Twitter, and I love all my Twitter people.

You know, the guy on Twitter, goes I said, well, you could take if you drafted Miles Jack, you could play if you wanted to keep you want to keep Rolando on the field with Lee and then take Miles Jack. Had put him in bury Church's spot. And someone says, you would never just play with one safety. Miles Jack could cover if he has to. It's like having a safety on the field but with the linebacker size. So I mean you'd like to go. You would never just have one, say bs if the safety was if the

safety was Jones, You'd had it. You'd be just fine. Creative with these guys. I mean, don't just if this isn't Madden where you you know, you had to find a free safety, had to find a strong safety had Yeah, you know, and be creat with these guys and all the different things they get locked up in the position. Just figure out where to play him. I think I trust undrafted, never played in the NFL. I feel better about Jack and coverage than J. J. Wilcox. Yeah, uh

sorry anyway, Uh, Roderick wants to know we talk. We have talked a lot about wide receivers. Yeah, which raises the very solid point that the Cowboys have six of them, and if they were to do that, I people forget about Bryce Butler. And basically is what I'm trying to say, And you would you spent a fifth round pick on the guy? Is that viable when you consider who's here? And if they did do that, who's the odd man out in that scenario? I think that how much more

leash does Devin Street have? That's yeah, there's your that's your question. That's the answer right there. Yeah, that that's your end to me that if there was one guy that that I was hopeful for would have taken to jump the fact that the coaches committed to playing him, he was active every week. Yeah, they threw him out there.

That gave him opportunity. You know, he's on the about to be in the third year of a program where it's time to go yea, you know they they you know somebody you know as as an organization, they made the decision to pick him in the fifth round. That's that's significant right there. Tell me tell me this though, I think this makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. Knowing what we know about this coaching staff. They spent a fifth round pick to get Butler in here.

He's fast, he's big, he showed a pension for making big plays when he wasn't injured. I won't be surprised at all if they're like, we got our big playmaker guy. We they basically spent a draft pick on him last year, and I wonder if that means that receiver is not the priority for them that we make it out to be. I think you have to do your due diligence though

on guys like Treadwell, sure, because of what happens. If now, if he's you're in a position now as you go further down the back into this draft, then maybe the questions become a little bit less, you know. I mean we talk about we've talked about the kid from from

Colorado State Higgins. You know, maybe if you get down into that fourth fifth round again, I mean, I I don't want to do it over on Devin Street in the fifth round, but maybe there's some guys that they're talking about are looking at absolutely that you know that they could It makes sense. I just this staff is so loyal to their guys, and then they've showed that with who they resign in free agency too. Yeah, so it's not going to surprise me. If stef Jack Crawford

didn't get any loyalty that is all. Well, I think you can't pay everybody. Yes, I don't know, but I'm not going to be surprised if they decide and yeah, I mean maybe a late round pick or something. But I'm not gonna be surprised if they decide not to spend a big, a big pick on that position when you consider what they spent to get Butler, Yeah, that's fair.

I think first we get third, fourth, fifth round. I think you know those middle rounds like that, we could see possibly see a receiver if the right one is there, and he might be the best player available for them. Um, I know in my The Star magazine, my mock for the Cowboys to have a receiver going I think fourth round. So yeah, that'd be interest because a lot of people and I'm I'm guilty of this talking about receiver at

thirty four. Now what you know, the way you the way the way are you talking about it might not might not be a risk realistic at all. I don't know, even though even though the position might be the strongest on the board right at that time, and talking about so much because that's the sweet spot Yeah, they're in a good position with the defensive tackles as well. You know, they're probably not gonna take a one technique at thirty four, but you know, talking about that's where the sweet spot

is to find value. That might be the pick they move. Thirty four might be the one. And by the way, I hate that though, I know, I'm just telling you. By the way, yesterday at a at pro Day, I went up to Less Snead at the rams GM. I told him, Hey, everybody on Twitter watching, to move forty three and forty five to Dallas. He goes, who am I take it? I said, just move it. Don't worry about it. I worry about just just yeah, just come on up there, and that's the pick last It is like, well,

who am I gonna take? I said, don't worry about that. Just give him the picks and we'll all move on. I think he called Steven right after he got so I'm on the fence with that one. With a possible trade like that, Yeah, if I'm moving back ten plus spots in the first round, I want a future first rounder. That's just me. Honestly, it sounds great in theory, but that doesn't seem rich enough to me for forty three and forty five, would you like to have four picks

inside the top fifty It sounds great. No, and it's trust me. I'm on the fence with this because I'm with two second rounders. To me, that's two. That's two, Starry. This is where this is where I think thirty four is gonna get moved. I think, don't worry about four. Someone's gonna want to come get thirty four. That's the one that's the Browns. At thirty two they hold the car because they have that first pick on Day two on Friday. Yeah, I think the Browns. I don't think

there's any way they pick at thirty two. Yeah, I think the Browns move out of that spot. And so depending on who the team that moves up is going to take. Yeah, absolutely, we could see the Cowboys move back. And by the ways, the crap out, what are you getting? Well, just get real. I was gonna give you a little, a little promo here. Okay, as we get close to the draft, we're gonna have one of those mock drafts. We do need to do that where where we get closer,

like the week of the draft. I want to sit down and we're gonna go through every possible way this football team could help themselves hurt themselves. So stay tuned. We need that. We need to do a trade episode two where we chart and all, oh yeah, we'll trade. We'll have some fun. We've got plenty of shows the week of the draft. But I hate the idea of like, because if you're trading back from thirty four, how far back are you trade it? And like that top fifty

is that's where I want to be picking. You're talking about picking at four and then not picking until like the sixties, people sitting around looking at their board or that after that first round, going okay, let's position ourselves to get this guy to buy. Okay, you're at thirty four, so you move back twelve spots, you're still in the top fifty. Plus you pick up you know, a third or fourth? Yeah, you know it could make sense. Who

wants a fourth? Really? Like, what are you really get? Well, it depends who depends who is there who we were teams trading up for. I want first and second round picks round thirty four to forty three. Take the rams forty five, get another second round pick. See pick it at forty three and forty five back to back. That doesn't seem remotely good enough, not for thirty four. It's basically a first round work through it. I gotta go to a break all right, all right, thanks for bringing

that up. Thanks for everybody out there, for all those Twitter questions. We do appreciate. Okay, coming up, we're gonna play a little bit of tell me more Yes from the SWBC Mortgage Stuios. We'll be right back. Dallas Cowboys Star Magazine brings you behind the scenes coverage, within depth, player stories, entertaining columns, a pull out poster, and of course you're Dallas Cowboys Chili. Subscribe now and get thirty two issues throughout the year, including our season breakdown and

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David Helman, Kent Garrison, executive producer. I know, it's all I was just thinking to sometimes as I was pausing for something, we were talking about mock drafts and stuff like that. So I'm looking forward to all that. I mean, it's just it's I want to get into the trades at back and fourth. Now it's like it's the time where nobody can accuse it of being too soon now, you know, like back in January it was like, really we're talking about this now Now that we know the

medicals and all, now it's like let's go. Yeah it is. And also, um, we're gonna take calls at the end of the show, okay, and the numbers right there on the screen as you see eight eight eight eight five five two two ninths. Oh yeah, eight eight, five five two two nine seven is the number. We will take some calls at the end of the day. But right now we're gonna play a little tell me more. This is uh. I always forget that was coming on now.

I forget every time. There we go. Now, this is the crowdsourced edition of Tell Me More, and a lot of people are gonna be happy based on my Twitter mentions that we're bringing us up. So tell me more about Morett's borringer how I don't know if I pronounced that right. The German super freak receiver who is six four two thirty and ran a four three eight this week. Measurables are off the charts. I mean on paper, he

looks like an early round pick. I mean he sure he not only that, but his three cone was outstanding, his vert was great. Um, he watched the highlights and you know he's going up against these corners that look like me and Dave. I mean they're you know, five foot nine, and uh, they're not very fast. No one can challenge him. He's sure faced a corner who's really going to challenge him with a line of scrimmage. It's tough. It's a huge projection. Um. Could I see him getting

drafted in the seventh round? Sure, you know it could happen. You know these teams love measurables. Sure, I think it's looking for traits, Yeah, exactly. I think it's more likely as a priority free agent, but wouldn't shock me at all if he's a later round pick. Somebody ran a photo of him catching and it looked real bad, like he was kind of doing this number like you know, like we just started playing the sport a couple of years. I mean, the route running, the technical, technical points of

the game, they're just not there. And so it's a long term projection. This is where. This is where and you're talking about a guy that was an NFL europe veteran, you know, and Mike mcagnan, who's the GM at the Jets, was an NFL Europe veteran, and this is where they miss inn FFL Europe where those guys could have been over there, they could have been playing football, they could have been more comfortable. I mean, you could have found ways. Yeah,

there were, there were, there were. That was the source if you wanted if we were gonna see UH players develop in Europe and then common play in the National Football League. And we don't have that. We haven't had that for ubly ten years now, you know, or more. And that's that's the disappointing thing. The guys who are the NFL h NFL Europe veterans they understand, they understand, not only could you have supplemented and the guys live. Mike,

Mike mcagnan was in London. He saw it, so he you know, he and then we tried to bring guys in, whether it was a javelin throw or a discus guy, a shot whatever, we tried to get those guys rugby players, and it just we didn't have enough time to get it all done. And that's and that's that's where, that's where the I think the European population that has potential to play NFL football or even college football. You know, Jack Crawford, I mean Jack Crawford played. Yeah, those guys,

that's what I'm saying. So anyway, it's a shame this team loves their international. UM. A year ago, at this time, I thought this guy would have been a first round pick and he's not even on the radar now. So tell me more about Duke Williams out of Auburn, also known as Duck Heel. Yeah. Over the summer, you know, he was one of the top five wide receivers, top five senior wide receiver of prospects going into the year. Um, he just he couldn't got get out of his own way.

He was in the doghouse constantly, uh suspended for the Bowl game last year as a junior than his past year with Gus Mason and the coaching staff just constantly butting heads and a bar fight ultimately led to his dismissal from the program. Um. But he was allowed to work out and at the combine. Somehow he got a combine invite, right, you know, thinking as lucky star as that happened. But he goes to the combine runs a four to seven, right, I mean, he's very unimpressive there.

So I don't know how you could possibly even use a draft pick on this guy. He's a priority free agent, a guy that you bring in the camp and I'll be shocked that he makes a roster. Yeah, the times, the times on him were had such a great junior season. Four six nine is his speed thirty on the vertical jump. And then you know when you look at his twenty shuttles, they were four four seven four five three three cone

seven four three and seven four three twice. A matter of fact, Yeah, he's gotten incredible size of six two two twenty nine. But for a guy that got the opportunity like he did, you know, to try and show people. It just showed you he was not committed to come into the combine and being ready to go, and he should. He could have wowed people. That's the combine is a

way to change people's opinions of you. And by his measure pools and buy his workout, he showed, Hey, I just wanted this is what I want to be, and that's that's unfortunate. When you're talking about guys with these character concerns, you know, you look at their history and some For some guys it's one or two things you know, out of character maybe, but with this guy, it goes back to high school. It's one thing after another. He was a juco guy before college, which, um right, Yeah,

that's unfortunate. He was a beast to watch in college, small school special. This is a brand brought us suggestion. Tell me more about David Perkins out of Illinois State, former Buckeye, Ohio State Buckeye. You got you got anything on Perkins? Is he a former buck Eye for the same reason that Noah spenses now, he just wanted more playing time, so I'm transferred out. Yeah, you know, undersized pass rusher, edge rusher. Uh, well, hey, who he can close? Yeah,

he's got some closing bars to him. He's and he's an athlete. Um where did you where? Did what position do you project him best at? I put him. I put him as a defensive end. It's where I thought because I felt like that he could be that right side guy. I mean I was really you talk about the ability to close, and the and the tape and there was game. I mean they played Iowa and that that one opened my eyes. And I know Iowa. You know,

you talk about Iowa offensive lineman and whatever. But I just the thing about him is that he he can make plays on the move. And I mean I'm just looking through my notes that stop start quickness, gets up the field, he could spin, he finds the ball, he plays with leverage, He's relentless, he finishes, he has a feel on the twist. I mean he could split double teams. I saw that he's got the burst, the hands to get rid of blockers. This guy, I could see why

he was at Ohio State. Now he's six two, two hundred two pounds and that's that's he's and he's at four seven six on the speed. But there's some pop in his hands. I mean, I'm I mean that he's playing on that right defensive end and he hits that Iowa left tackle and you see that his head snaps. I mean it's like snaps. He's got him, and then he's gone, and the plays going from the back and

he's running. He's I talked about the twist. There's a reason why he was in Ohio State and then he ends up in Illinois State because he wants to play, and they don't let you go from Ohio State to Florida State and lets you graduate. Yeah, exactly. So keep an eye on David Perkins. There's the tape is very very good on him. All right. The listener suggestion, Okay, tell me more about Georgia Tech corner DJ White, three year starter. Yeah, he's a guy that I remember we

watched him together, right, that's right. Um, when he was in press, when he got a chance to, you know, get up in the face of the wide receiver going his pedal, he looked very natural, right, he looked like he could do that with ease. But then when he's playing off coverage, he looked like a fish out of water. And so I think there's a big, big difference it's like you were watching two different guys. The traits are there, Um, you know, I think he can be a cornerback that

helps your depth. I don't think I don't see a starter. Yeah, I'm just going back. And he plays as a boundary corner, which means he uses the sideline to his advantage. He only has he has to play half the field, or really a quarter of the field. So that kind of tells you when they put somebody at the boundary corner, they're really not too comfortable with him having to carry guys and and going back. Dane's absolutely right, though. I just see a guy who played with a lot of balance,

you know, and he's when he pedaled. I thought he got overpowered at times. You know, he didn't always want to get in on the tackle, right. I just don't see much ketchup speed either. Was another thing that I noticed. They're about it so not good. You're telling me, Yeah, I just didn't. I didn't. I think Dane's got him right. But again, the thing about it is you get a guy that doesn't have much speed that plays in the boundary.

I don't like anything you're saying. Yeah, he's a guy like when you say, well, when he does this, this and this, he's not bad. But the problem is he doesn't always play like that. He plays like another guy. So yeah, it's hard. You know. I think he can draftable. He's draftable and I think he can feel I think I put him in the seventh round. Yeah, I think he can fill a spot, you know, in the secondary on death chart. But you know he's gonna have to

tweak some things in order to make a roster. Okay, we could do a whole segment on this guy, so we'll just be quick about it. But I don't tell me. I just want Yell's opinion on Vernon Adams. Yeah, I know exactly. Yeah, you know what, I was impressed with Vernon Adams's ability. I didn't think he had the ability. I didn't think he was gonna have the ability to throw a deep ball, and he can. He could. He could throw. I mean, I think he's got some deep

ball touch. The problem is, though he has to move around to make throws, and the guys in the league that are moving around making throws, He's gonna tear up the CFL. That's how I think about it. Yeah, I mean, I think he's gonna tear up the CFL, and I think that he's that type of player. There are a lot of people that do like him, and it wouldn't shock me if he goes as early as the fourth round, yeah,

and fighting for the NFC West. It would make a lot of sense for teams that have to play Russell Wilson twice a year, kind of get him a little look, get him in practice, and you know he can play fill that type of role. So I think Russell Vernon Adams in the mid rounds to an NFC West team, I could understand that. I tell you, the mobility is

unbelievable ball handler mobility. Seeing him in the pocket, yeah, and seeing him up playing personal the Shrine game, I did appreciate that, but I also got so scared off by his He's short, we know that, but his launch points so low. Yeah, that worries the heck does on the tapes we were watching though, the ball right Hash left sideline making his arm talent and the body armor too. Yeah,

he's just he's just a smaller guy. And we talked about, well, when he was healthy, well that's kind of the point, right, he was hurt multiple times at Oregon and even at Eastern Washington as FCS level your prediction if if fan favorite Jamil Showers can make a roster. Yeah, I'm not gonna bet against this guy. Okay, thanks day for a I appreciate. Tell me more. Okay, Ken, I'm gonna turn the show over to you now. We got about five minutes left and I want to kind of bang through

some calls here. By the way, folks, we're all doing great today. Thanks for being with us. And Ken, go ahead. Who we got Yeah, we got one of my favorites, Rain fort Worth. Go ahead, Ray, Ray, Hey, can you talk about these two players? I like it running back? I like, can you talk about Paul Perkins and and uh and I know Keith Marshall. Keith Marshall really handsome speed. What do you what do you think about those? I really love show? Okay, thanks Ray, Okay, we got Perkins.

I think that you talk about Perkins to me, I was expecting like a little guy and he's not a little guy. I mean, you watch more tape though, I mean there's some times where you know he bangs around a little bit in there's a tough guy. But yeah, I just I'll tell you what the patience speed or should be more quickness than speed. Carries the ball well, can catch the ball. I don't see many problems with him though. He has a lot of creativity and runner and he has the instincts to make guys miss uh

in small spaces, big spaces. The lack of a power element bathers. I think that's my hang up with Paul Perkins. But I think he can absolutely play in this league. That's that's for sure. Social's the opposite for me on that. Yeah, I don't y'all. We talked about Marshall a week or two. Yeah, and I don't sixth round like special teamers. I just

didn't see a guy that played explosive. Yeah. If he has a clear lane, yeah, well yeah, but running and finishing and being tough, he doesn't have the same type of feel. The contact balances him there. He's going down on first contact a lot. So yeah, I agree. And the injury history, yeah has to scary? All right, can't Sam and san Antonio? Go ahead? Hey, guys, I'm gonna couple well one quick question too, Yeah, one quid question? Great?

Thanks you. So the first thing is, uh, I want to know if I feel like a defense has to be built from the you know, you want to be style of the middle of your defense on all three levels. And and we and right now, I feel like this team is avoid the playmakers on either side, with the exception of that Brian being the only exception on either

side of the ball. I wanted to ask you and Miles jack Case, I like him as a as a playmaker, and what you thought about using him in a Troy Polamillo type role where he's actually and he gets to play inside the box quite quite a bit, and you can play games with him and utilize him as a as a real weapon. And I just want to get your thoughts about him and just about that aspect about building your your defense from the center all the way

through the middle of your defense. Okay, thanks, I appreciate that. Yeah, kick the guy can play. I mean he's absolutely right. I mean, Troy Polamal is a guy in and out, I mean back. You know, wherever you wanted to play him, you could do that. This kid's got that kind of ability. I think he has the same I think he's got more He's probably he's got more speed right than not

the same positions, but he has the same ability. Well, and I was Byron just in terms of where all the different places they could put him and all the different things he could do. I just hope wherever Miles Jack ends up, I hope he goes to a team that is creative with him. And that's you know, you look at different teams around the league. Some are some aren't. I think the team like the Arizona Cardinals, the way they use them Bikan and Tommy Matthew, they played to

their strengths. I just hope wherever Miles Jack goes, they played to his strengths, whether it's a lineback or a hybrid version of whatever. So kind of worry that that wouldn't happen here. They seem so rigid with their structure sometimes I think I think they did move Byron a little bit last year with Byron yet but this is a very very you make a fair point, So you do make a fair point about that. I don't know, all right, kid, you got one more in yeah, last one?

Shane in Ohio, Shane Ohio. Yes, I was climb to Jack. You'll see about two light round gyms. Doug Milson have a Appelachian state, and possibly Brian Poole back, I believe out of Florida. All right, thank you very much. Two solid players. Brian Pool played a nickel position for Florida corner safety Hybrid H surprise. He was invited to the combine because I thought he was a pretty good player. He was a Shrine game East West shrine game guy. I think he's borderline draft all late rounds. He's a

solid player. Doug Middleton, I you know, just by looking at him, watching him on app state tape, I see an SEC player just by the look of I mean he physically looks the part, doesn't play the part. The angles all over the place. He'll come up and hit you, and when he connects, he connects. But the angles aren't always sound. Um. I questioned his vision what he's actually seeing out there at the instincts. So I think Doug Middleton's more of a p FA, a priority free agent

type of guy. But definitely someone will be in a camp. Yeah, but you saw an SEC type of people looks like it because physically striped together and he can move. But like I said, the angles aren't sound the instincts, I questioned, So more of an under Okay, well that's all the time we have today for the Draft Show. I want to thank our team here, Dame Burglar, David Hellman, Kent Garrison,

Executive produce. I also want to thank Scott Purcell, Dave Burst and Blake Silverthorne for putting together the little bells and whistles that we have as part of the Draft Show. We'll be back next week from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Be twenty days until an NFL draft, so stay tuned and we will see you then.