Draft Show: Putting a Star on His Tag?

Miller Lane. Glad you're with us, you're on this Tuesday edition as we've got Brian brought us, Bucky Brooks, the Great David Hellman, I'm Kyle Yeomans, and gentlemen, for the first time, we might have a medical alert. If we had a medical alert drop that just sent sirens going off and things going crazy and the sound just to kind of get everybody's attention, now would be the time

to hit it. I don't think we have one of those, but major medical news, and we're going to hit it right off the top to start things off on the Draft Show, because I don't think there's any other way we could hit it. But Caleb Farley, huge draft prospect out of the cornerback position and a potential Cowboys target, having back surgery prior to the season and should miss a little bit of time, especially missing his pro day.

So that's the news that has come down. Of course, Adam Schefter was the one that first reported it on Monday afternoon. We've had a little bit of time now to react to it. But Brian, whenever you first heard the news, what was your initial reaction whenever it comes to Farley and opt out, who now has some potential back issues. Yeah, this is something that you know, the teams knew about that. He missed some games before, you know, in two and nineteen, the last couple of games he

had had a similar procedure. He's got some pressure in that lower back that he has to release, and yeah, this is not a good thing. This is not a good sign. And when you start to ask the trainers and doctors around the league yesterday afternoon, like I did, they were saying, listen, when the longevity questions come into play here now you know, and where are you with that? Are you willing to say, Okay, he's just that much of a talented player that we're going to put that aside.

We're going to play him and just manage the back as we go. Talking to doctors and trainers again, they've said that this is something that could be taken care of with rehab. But they've also said, hey, there's been some good cases, there are also been some bad cases of this. So yeah, it's really unfortunate because again, this is a player that a lot of people had, including myself as a target for the Dallas Cowboys. He was

cornerback number one for me. And now this gives you a little bit of a pause as you as you go forward here in this process. Yea makes it really really difficult when you're looking at him to say, because you already alluded to the fact that he missed games in twenty nineteen, he says all of twenty twenty, we won't get a chance to see him with his pro day in those things, and we don't know how long this is going to impact him in terms of getting

back on the field. I think what you have to end up doing is you have to put a star on his tag. You have to get the medical you

have to get your doctors the way in. But I certainly believe that he is demed when it comes to the process, I don't believe you can seriously entertain taking him at ten And I think it comes of the doctors when you can mitigate the risk reward value with him as a prospect, just to I guess to wrap that up, this is probably the most important and the spot where we in the media are at the biggest disadvantage is with the medicals because we're hearing about this

because Caleb Farley needs to have a procedure done right now. But I guarantee you all these teams, you know, they knew about his past, and it's something they've looked into. It's something that comes up on the screens at the NFL Combine every year. That's why this usually you know, these types of things happen at the combine. You know,

in a normal year where you don't have COVID. This is something where your own doctors would take a look if he came to your facility, and we just buy and large, we're not going to have access to ninety nine percent of that. I remember having a conversation with somebody, you know, one of the previous draft cycles. I don't want to name the player, but the guy had a medical condition that never made it to the media that teams knew about, and it dinged his draft stock understandably.

So if you're worried about his longevity or his ability to be available, and it's just the type of stuff that we don't have access to. So in the case of Caleb Farley, we do because he needs to have a procedure right now. But you know, this is the type of thing that you've got to worry about and you've got to have your hands around when you're talking about spending big draft picks, and you know it sucks.

But I agree with what Bucky just said that, you know, I hope Caleb Farley has a super long career and I don't know how far he falls because everything I've heard is that he'll be available for training camp. But it seems like a good guest that he's going to fall at least a little bit because of this. Yeah, Kyle and guys, the thing that you and talking to some scouts and I know Buckie does the same thing. He works the phones, Dave's got his guys he talks to.

It's a mess right now for these scouts. The medical information. I talked to a team the other day that says, this is an absolute mess. And you know, and you know they're hitting these pro days and trying to gather information. How do you get medical information with hippo laws and all that stuff going on. I mean, this is difficult on this team and you're making an investment in these players. And it reminds me so much of the ninety eight

draft that we had in Philadelphia with Jeremiah Trotter. You know, our doctor Philly had Listen, he said, Brian, I can't tell you this guy could play ten games or ten years, you know. And I give Jeff Lurie, the owner, a lot of credit. He's like, listen, guys, if we like this guy enough, let's take him now. It was a third round grade. It was a third round get. But still those the types of decisions that these teams are going to have to make on these medical as they

get more information. Whenever it came out yesterday about the Kayla Farley news, Drew Rosenhouse's agent said he noted a late July return for kay La Farley. Cowboys have had their own experience with it. This is a tweet from Calvin Watkins. By the way, cowboys have had their own experience with this type of surgery that Farley is undergoing. Tony Romo had the exact same surgery. So I mean, if that strikes fear into you, I think it does to me a little bit whenever it comes to taking

him at ten. But Brian, you talked about how he was your corner one. You're not alone in that fact. A lot of people had kayle La Farley as their corner one. Is he still there or are you pushing him down the board a little bit if you were in that draft room. Yeah, you know, Bucky's gonna hate me for this, and Dave's gonna hate me for this.

I'll fight for the kid. I'll fight the kid, and you know what, and I'll you know, if it's something that my medical staff feels comfortable with, I'm not going to be an idiot scout and walk in there and say we've got to take this guy. We've got to take this guy. But if it's something that we have a history with and we're comfortable with, I think that

the consideration is still there. Now if you tell me that, Hey, listen, there's there's some there's some cases where this hasn't gone well and we do worry about the longevity of the player. You know, I think there is concern. I'm not going to be that stupid, but you know, I can understand where. I can understand where guys like Bucky, who has certain up there at number one, this is his opportunity to say, listen, let's take the healthy guy. Let's take the guy that's

been playing. You know, let's take the clean guy. You know, when you're picking tenth overall, though, you don't want that mistake. You don't want anything hanging over your head. So this is clear ammunition for those guys that want another player or another position there. And you know what, I could fight him to a point, but I can't fight him all the way, like if he was completely healthy. So cal for your question when you're talking about rankings and grades,

Yeah I wouldn't. It wouldn't impact my grade at all, Like you still grade the player for who the player is. And then I think you have to let the medical team undress him in terms of way we can use alize him, in what kind of tags and stickers we put on the card and those things. So I think you still have to talk about him as if he's a healthy prospect, and then you'll let those that may

be above I pay grade handle that. When it comes to the medical I think what typically happens in these situations, you typically dock maybe around or two depending on how severe it is. So if we're thinking about him at ten, I think earliest consideration would be in the second round if a severe and it may even drop down to the third round. And so then it comes down to how comfortable are you taking on a player who has

this issue? Because Dallas has had familiarity with it, Tony Romo, I want to say another player had a similar surgery on the Cowboys in the past, but with Tony Romo and understanding and understanding what comes along with it, and do they have a plan to get a player up and running and being able to play in how to manage it as he's going through his career. If they have a plan and they feel confident about it, I think you can take him and you get him at

the right value. So what you're telling me is that if he's there at forty four and the Cowboys are gonna make him their their big gamble pick, because we know they love doing that. Yep, Yeah, no, that's yeah, they've they've taken The history shows you that with Cherry Jones, I believe Bucky might be referring to Tank Lawrence. You know, Tank has had some back issues and stuff like that that he's had to deal with as well. So yeah, it's we understand this team will take a risk on

a medical player. Look, look with Jalen Smith, I don't know if they take Jalen Smith unless doctor Cooper does the surgery. If doctor Cooper doesn't do the surgery, I don't know. But if you listen to Will McClay talk about that, like Bucky was telling you, they had his tag right there where it was like a blinking light for them that that gave them in their mind, it was like we got to the second round, let's go

that's our guy, let's go with it. And you know, they didn't share the same feeling, and a lot of others, I mean a lot of other teams didn't have that same feeling about this guy. So this team is they will see value in medical risks, whether it's wrong, whether it's right or wrong, that's what they do. They did it with Sean Lee as well. So yeah, I mean, it's it's not just a one off. So no, they've

done it time and time again. But Bucky, when you're talking about grading the players specifically to a healthy prospect, and then you have those stickers on there, the worrisome thing for me is that I think you put two stickers on Farley, you put past history of injuries in, I mean maybe three stickers, then the surgery, and then

the opt out. Because there's those three things right there that already worried me enough to where you look across to your board with a very similarly graded player at least on my board and Patrick's or ten, that's the difference maker. That's the difference for me. And and I see that you're saying that already by pushing him down to forty four. I think at forty four you be a great pick depending on who you pick in the

first round. But is that enough for teams to knock him that far because I still think somebody would be willing to maybe take a chance on him earlier than just forty four. I don't know. I mean, you're talking about a lot of money and you just listed off a laundry list of issues that you're worried about opt out to twenty nineteen in the season prematurely ending, and now we have the back surgery. Like that's a lot.

I think what you're trying to do to reason outside of the first round is just because the money changes, like it changes significantly in terms of the guarantees and those things. And so if you quote unquote throw away a second round pick, you can live with that. But what you don't want to do is and Brian to tell you whatever, like you don't want to give away first round picks. In the first round, you can't have

major swings and misses. And if he's unable to play and unable to give you any of what you thought, then that's a major miss. In the first round, it's about man just hit singles and doubles. If you can just get him on base and make sure that he's a solid starter, and if he can give you more, that's great. In the second round, you can swing for the fences because hey, no one's going to pick you apart because your second round or doesn't materialize and become

an All star or those things. And so that's why you've seen it where Jayalen Smiths was in the second round. I think charl Lee was in the third round. Maybe with Charlie it was fifty five overall. I think yeah, yeah, so that second so we're already talking about where he goes.

So you talk about the blinking light if he gets into a situation in the second round, if he's still on the board, then you begin to talk, Okay, is it worth going up to get him even though he has these other factors because we're talking about a guy who has a top fifteen grade, someone who were saying can be a number one corner in this league, and so it's about risk reward, and so you're just trying

to mitigate it. Yeah, what's going to happen, guys, and Bucky knows this too, is that when you're sitting in that room and that tag is up there and it's your time to pick, you have to compare him to Okay, he's going to be on your board in the first round, what second round grades do you have? Now? What players? What tax do you have left? And that's where the risk is. You're gonna say, Okay, we've got a first

round grade on this guy. We know the issues When the minute he gets drafted by somebody, The first thing they're going to say on the NFL network is, here's a first round player that got picked here because of a back, a question about his back. That's that's what's going to happen, and that that's immediately that's going to be the thing that's going to follow this player the

rest of his career. You know, whether his back holds up and it's a ten twelve year career, or that he's a guy that every year he has to get something done to his back order to play. Those are the questions you have to ask yourself when you're going

forward and making this pick. Now, right, let me take you unnecessarily far down the rabbit hole, because obviously, like this is ridiculous, but I'm just curious, do you think the Cowboys could try to, like you, like strategize that basically is like, hope that Caleb Farley does fall to you and you can make him that pick, and then now you could use number ten to not address cornerback and hope that that works out for you. Plus, I mean, there are obviously other cornerbacks I could fall to you

at forty four. Anyway, this is one of the questions I was have as well. Because whenever you looked at the trio where it was certain it was Farley or it was Patrick Slater or excuse me, Rashaan Slater at pick number ten. Now that it's just a choice between the two if he falls, I mean, is that something that the Cowboys could be interested in? Brian, Yeah, yeah, I think they're. You know, that's a great question, because but let me tell you where I think to answer

Dave's question first, and Bucky knows this as well. When you're every team is member of a pod, and you know, when they go to the combine, they have a group of teams that they work with. So for example, the Cowboys might be in the same pod with the Giants, the Buccaneers, the Saints, the Eagles. I mean, they're they're a working group of doctors and trainers, and Jim Mauer, the trainer, does an excellent job of getting all the

medical grades from all the teams. So if you get a situation where all of a sudden you're seeing Farley's name as a fail on a bunch of teams, that could be strategy right there. You know, Jim Mauer could walk in as they're talking about this. Maureck could say eighteen teams have failed Farley on his back. That could give you a little idea of like, Okay, who are we battling now, who's given him the best grades, who's

given him the passing grades? You know? So yeah, you could you could get a pretty good understanding of where you're where you need to maybe make this pick. But yeah, I listen, if if, if it comes down to Slater and Certain and Horn and Pitts, and yeah, you're gonna look at the healthy guys. You're gonna look at the guys that are that are played, uh, you know, and and again, I can't fight Bucky anymore on Certain. I just hope, I hope it Pro Day in Alabama today.

I hope it runs real fast. I really do. That would make me feel a lot better about the situation. But I just you just said up here earlier before we got on air and talked about you trust the tape, and now you're worried about the Pro Day workout. I trust the tape. I trust no, No, I absolutely, I absolutely trust the tape. Because I've just saying though for my own for my own mind, I trust my eyes, I trust my I don't see a fast player I don't see a fast player. That's what I'm saying. I

don't make I don't. I hope he proves me. Well, I hope me wrong, because SO see a fast player. So callin Dave. I'm gonna show your tricks. So when I go to Pro Day, normally I always have my pen But when I go to Alabama Pro Day, we're past or ten, I'm bringing my pencil. And the reason why I'm bringing my pencil because if he happens to clock a four or five five, there's an eraser here that mysteriously can make that at four four nine round the card that I send in. So Ryan and all

the higher us will be satisfied that he's fast enough. Hey, I'll just say I'm Ryan. Just like Ryan. I tell you he likes the thirty eight yard. Dad, I'm saying, Bucky, but don't don't work out the pencil. Keep your pen Just give me thirty eight yards, just kind of like yards. If you really want to play, cut that thing. You know it's a little bit off. No, I want. I want the kids. Hey, what do we what do we

see with the kid bolted from Missouri? You watch that team, he goes down four or five nine four six z. Yeah. See it's I'm saying, I mean, you want to Washington's the same way. He's a shorter guy, makes a ton of plays at TCU. I'm saying, the eyes tell me a lot. I do I want. Do I want Curtain to run fast? Yes? I do. I want to be wrong about him, I really do. I mean, you know, look, I would say, I would say this. There are a couple of things about Curtain. I like Curtain as the player.

I do believe um he has been helped by the fact that, look, his dad was an All Pro player, so he understands. I think he plays take his dad like. I think he plays the game like a like a like a grown up. The issue that I will have and I think, look, we can't scout the helmet, but if you really go back and dig into Alabama corners, there really hasn't been a star corner to come out

of Alabama. Like, if we really honestly assess it, as good as Alabama has been throughout the years, there hasn't been a corner to come out of Alabama and play at a level there We're like, oh my gosh, they're just a factory producing elite cornerbacks and so there is something too that and so you have to be able

to look and see what does it look like. I mean even our own digs when Diggs came in, like there were some things early in the year, You're like, I don't know in the speed issue in those things. So I would just like to say, and I hear you, and you're not wrong, but yeah, I mean I have to tell you. All I'm saying is that's all well and good, like Okay, you could say the same thing

about Alabama safeties. Mark Baron was a huge disappointment. Ha ha, Clinton Dicks pretty disappointing, Mega fifth Patrick kicks ass well. And I mean, so all it takes is for the right guy to come along and buck the trend. And so I just I don't necessarily buy that. Yah, that's all I'm saying. Now, that's good point. I mean I

get that, but that's fine. But once you asked Brian brought us about Penn State corners, We're still waiting on a Penn State corner to play, like, so, I mean there's there there's something too sometimes like you have to get away from like hey whatever, whereas the street corners hire your steak. Corners begin to play like there's something I don't know if it's into water or whatever, but

there's something too. You just have to be a little leering, a little careful because are they coached up so well that their max out when they get into the league. Like, there's a reason why scouts. There's a reason why scouts are doing media now because State quarners and defensive the Mississippi State defensive tackles and all that stuff. The visual just go for it, Dave, go ahead, I'm Penn Steak.

Put out a bunch of bum running backs too. And then Sakeuon Barkley came along and yeah, Sands, maybe it's going up's going maybe he's going up. But but the detractor Met was saying, but take Quon Barkley was on the sideline last year. All we ever gonna see the sea Quon Barkley. Yeah, I'm just saying I'm not ready to call him Curtis, Curtis Enis or anything, but I'm just saying, oh, Curtis, sometimes I was right about him. Jeff Lurry, you you Jeff Lurry, the owner. The owner

comes into the room real quick. Jeff Leuriy comes see it and he's been talking to other owners and you know about Curtis Senis and we got a second round tag on him, and Jeff Jeff goes, mister Lewie goes, man, that Curtis Senias, we sure have him low. And I'm like, mister Lurie, He's like a he's a two hundred and forty pound guy. He runs slow. Now he's gonna he's gonna get bigger. He's gonna slow down. And mister Lewis

is like, okay, okay, okay. To this day, every time Jeff Luriy sees me, he says, Brian, you were right about curtisiness. So I mean I got one guy. I got one guy. I got one guy. The visual of the show so far was Brian kind of perking up and getting ready to say what he was gonna say about potential and scouting the helmet and whatnot, and then and then Bucky bringing up Pinnstay Corners and Brian just kind of suck it's like so back into his chair

and said you're right, You're right. That was the best visual if you could go back and not wrong. It is so good. You do this look you do this long enough, Kyle, I swear, yeah, it will you. You'll have a millionaire you can wear. You know, tell about We're in the albatross around your neck, you know the one. No, you can have a slew of players. They never I never, I never remember the good ones. I remember all the bad ones. Yeah, that's the one I will take to

the Lake House with me. I will remember that every day. Oh, I'm sure I'm taking it to the lake House. Let's take it to break while we got a chance to and try and get to Twitter on the twenty a little bit on time. You got submitted eighty questions this week. It goes up every single week. This is unbelievable. But we've got some really good ones to hit when we come back. On the other side of the break, you're

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the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. It's a Tuesday ED issue and we're already underway. Hey, we got to Twitter on the twenty in the twenties. I'm pretty happy about that. That's pretty good. It's like the first time that we've been caught over. Let's go to Twitter on the twenty on the twenty, I think the sounder played in the background. What were you gonna say, Brian, I was gonna say that our ability to answer questions, we get seventy questions and we seem to get to one

or two score our scoring positions got it's terrible. You gotta go lightening round, man. So we're our percentage is terrible. You've got to tell us all to shut the hell up. I'm gonna do a better job of shutting up. Okay, all right, let's do this. How about that let's try and get through as many of these questions as we potentially can. I'll even give us till ten forty five to do it, so we've got twenty minutes to get as many questions in as possible. Start starting off with Brandon.

He says, for Brian and Bucky Dave of coourse, you can answer this as well. But he says, how much external networking is used with other teams to verify a thought on a prospect? If you have good friends from other teams, do you honestly give an opinion slash advice? Or is there a ton of smoking mirrors between different apartments from different organizations go for a buckie? It depends.

I wouldn't say departments. I think we all have scouting buddies that we lean on, and there's certain guys that have an expertise and positions, and so there are guys that I would call on. If I'm having a tough time with an offensive lineman, I may ask, hey, man, what do you think? Am I missing anything? Am I off?

It may not necessarily change my opinion, but I'm just trying to get another perspective because I'm stuck, and I think that's very very common when guys get stuck on a player they can't really figure them out, that you may lean onto like your personal village to kind of

help you along the way. When I was scouting, had a bunch of guys Sammy Seal and cry Darlingson and a bunch of guys that we kind of wear a rat pack on the road that I knew that I could get an honest evaluation and perspective on them, and it wouldn't be one of those things where oh we're sharing information, don't tell It's just one of those things where you develop friendships on the road and confidence that you trust, and so you kind of lean on those

guys sometimes when you do have a tough time sorting it all out. Yeah, Book, He's absolutely right. There's guys that you do call up they feel like they might have a better feel of a position. You really trust them as an evaluator. I'll tell you where you do share information. Maybe you're in a situation on a pro day where you go hit a particular school and your buddy scout hits another school and then you exchange those numbers. Is what you can maybe do if you if it's

a small school, situation. Maybe you go into Tartland State or something like that, you know, and you want to go get that guy and you trade it with another guy who's at another pro day. That's that's really how you work together and make it all work. It's really a family out there. I mean, some of the guys you absolutely hate, but there's a lot of guys out there you love and really have a lot of respect

for them. Yeah. I've always thought, obviously, like you work for a team and you want that team to be successful. But like Scout's view themselves as a team, you know, like they're the worker bees of the NFL, and you know, you got buddies and you want each other to succeed. That's the experience that I've always gotten just from being around scouts. Yeah, and from going to the combine and having those networking events and being around guys like Bucky and Bryant who have been a part of it. I'm

kind of the right there with you, Dave. From the outside, looking into the scouting departments of the NFL, I could see how that's the case. Okay, this one comes from Kofax, and I'm actually using this because he called me mister mean Green, So I like that at off the top, so that's why I'm picking it. But it's a good question.

Do you think even if the Cowboys sign one or both of the free safeties that are coming in for visits this week, talking about de Demante Kazi or Malie Cooker, do you think that they will still draft safety high in this draft? Dave So, I'm just gonna take this opportunity to be a smart ass and say I got to see them. I got see them use a high pick on a safety before I believe it's going to happen. They haven't done it since like what thousand and two? Ye or I mean, you know they did draft JJ

Wilcox in the third and twenty thirteen. But if we're talking like a top fifty pick, I gotta see it to believe it. But I said this on Twitter last week. If you're looking for a silver lining to the way the Cowboys run free agency, it's that they're not going to do a deal that'll stop them from drafting anybody. You know, Kean O'Neil's a one year deal all I think the longest deal they've signed so far is like

two years, six million for Terrell bats the bashmashhop. Yeah, and if they sign one of these guys, I promise you it'll be a one or two year prove it deal. And so no, I mean that's not going to stop them. I think their own biases against the safety position is what's going to stop them. Yeah. I think the previous regime had something against safeties. I really really do. And so I feel like with dan Quinn, they're making an effort to try and do is me personally, I'd like

to see him sign Hooker. Yea, let's do it. I there's there's something there's something about that tape from back in the day. Maybe you catch lightning in a bottle and he plays a full sixteen for you. It might be tough, but I would that's that's the one. If you're gonna go get a guy, go get him. And then let's find a way to draft a guy. Those are the two things I would do. Because here's what also plays into why Malie Cooker would be the one.

Malie cook is a former first round pick. Yeah, and so sometimes a change of scenery, a different scheme can allow him to play at that level. Yes, he has an injury history and you have to sort through that stuff. But if you're thinking about the position that they're feeling is the ornament on top of the Christmas tree. You want a guy who was a big time centefield about

ball hawk guys who has skills. This was a guy coming out, like they would tell you when you go back into his high school background, he was a dominant basketball player, gray handout, coordination and athleticism. He's not that

same athlete. But if you talk Rbert Meyer raved about this guy when he was coming out in terms of just how he developed and what he could be at the next level, I would be willing to give him a chance to see if he can come back healthy and man that position, because you could end up getting what Dave Hillman wants, which is a top pick. You just have got him at a disc gun and you got a nice used car, hey, and that that is

a Cowboys hallmark under Will McClay. No, they love giving second chances to big time you know, former first round draft picks or you know, big time talented big school guys who, whether it's character issues, whether it's injuries, have fallen out of favor. That's if you asked me to guess, I think I think they're I think they'll try their hardest to sign Hooker if if they can get one

of these guys. Well, when I said this on the fan last night, But the reason they're coming and actually making their way to Frisco, even in the midst of the craziness, still in the socially distant COVID off season, again, it's because they need to check the medicals and they need to look at the physicals and try and see between these two guys. One's more a lot more ready to play and more ready to play sixteen games, like

Bucky said, and catch lightning in a bottle. If everything's even between the two and everybody's good, I would still pick Hooker. But I don't know. That's my biggest question because if they end up signing Kazi, that means I think that they saw something in Hooker's medicals that scared them into doing something a little bit more long term. Now,

this next question comes from Patrick Drew on Twitter. He said, I'm interested in terms of raiding the offensive line in this year's class compared to last year's class, Where would Pinney sul and rashaunse later ran compared to the four top fifteen picks that the twenty twenty class had. Bucky Brooks. M m mmmm. Those guys last year were really really good. They were good. Yeah it was Walter Jones to me, M yeah, Tristan Worth's I mean was good. McKay Beckton

was a hog. The only one was the first, the first one to come off the board was maybe the worst out of all of them. I look at I look at this class. I think the top three. Um, and I'm saying, Putney sewel Rashawn Slater, and Elijah very Tucky in whatever order you put him in. I think they all would be in that that conversation. I think there is a bit of a drop off after that when you talk about Derenshaw and Jenkins and whoever else

you want to kind of throw in that conversation. Even though I'm hearing, um, the Notre Dame kid is flying, I can birth like they're talking about seven offensive tackles that can go in the first round. Wow. Wow, I told you this. I said this about this guy. Man. You were on them to me at all, you were on the pet he was a pet cat guy. I mean we had this conversation three weeks ago. Yeah, you guys need to the old man, the old man Hattie. So I mean, I mean the old man like you're

claiming pet Cats and Dard December. I mean like, I mean, like we haven't even done the full grade in the vun Oh man, he had the vision. I had the vision of the player said he would like a second or third round pick when we talked about the second round. I have him. He's my he's my number one player in the second round. Number one player in the second round. Okay, he's well, I mean, if you're gonna give him the six nine grade, you might as well give him a seven.

Oh likew he liked that big. I do. I want one to watch him. I want to put this out there just really quickly. Whenever I submitted the rankings for the draft magazine, Aikenberg was a little bit further down than I would like him to be. I've seen him raised because I went back and watched him. No, I went back and watched him. That was the other thing is I saw him at the Senior Bowl and I was not very impressed. And then I went back and watched him a little bit more and I was a

little more impressed. So I don't know that and I'm not taking I'm not taking a shot at Kyle, but people to get shomped in. They're like, you know, they see you know it happened, and that's what you know. I love I love draft media. It's so much fun. I love working with y'all and everybody else that's that you know on Twitter. But you great a guy. And then you know, around this time of year, people are talking about him as a first round pick and you're like, oh, crap,

I guess I need to take another look. And you go back and you're like, oh, yeah, okay, it's been a week going back and looking at players that you should have looked at it a different I think the other thing with Eikenberg and like we've kind of lumped into this scouting the helmet conversation. But here's the thing, Notre Dame offensive lineman and their success rate. Yeah yeah,

they have done a great job of producer. And so when you get it there and you hear a great leader control the old line room, smart tough, has a bunch of stars on his bilt, you then think about the coaching and what he's been exposed to you like, yeah, like I mean, worst case, he's just gonna be an okay starter, but you get all of the good things. And so that's why if you're at the bottom of the first round and you're like, maybe they can't see chieps you down at thirty or whatever, like you know,

I can't go wrong. Like he's not necessarily an exceptional player, but he's pretty good, so we'll take me in the first round. Yeah, that's the you know I was. I was impressed by him though, and again I didn't have the guts to put him in the first part. I knew that he needed I knew that he needed to be the Again, I love that Virginia Tech kid. I really do. Not there so I mean there, I think

the one that I'm still hanging as uh Jenkins from Oklahoma. Yeah, yeah, I mean I like, look, he's the first round player. He's going in the first round. Just that that's worried like sometimes, like I mean, like i'd like to see guys move people off the one. I know in the Big twelve no one's really doing that. I know it's like seven on seven with the little bodies in front, but I don't know, I kind of like to see him move people. Yeah, No, it's a rare thing to

see people move people. Yeah, all right, this next question and he moved to furniture. This next question comes from Tim. He said, if you were the cowboy Boys and if they were to package their second round pick and one of their third round picks to get back into the first round. One is that possible? And two? Who could you see the Cowboys potentially targeting if that were the case.

I think the answer is definitely yes. Yeah. I mean if a top fifty pick and then you know, regardless of which one you use, it's another top one hundred pick, I mean forty four seventy five will get you to Washington at nineteen. Wow. I would do that. If you're telling me J. C. Horne is there, give it to me, and then I'll already have picked to Brushawn's later at ten. You know, I don't know why the Cowboys, to be honest with you, and I know this we're talking about draft.

I don't know why the Cowboys don't use one of those compensatory threes, fours or their five and try and go get an established player from another team. But you know, instead of saying, oh, we're looking at hurt safeties, go off for a third round pick for a young, young, real safety, a guy that's already been playing. I think the cat plays into that though, because that's my things. It probably does. I know I've just thrown it out there like that. But to me, you earn those compensatory picks,

You earn those. Take him if you got to move him to go back into this thing. Yeah, if you take Pits at ten and you jump back in there and grab one of those quarters, you say, you grab Newsom or somebody like that. You know that's that's in that spot. Heck, yes, yeah, let's go. Let's get back in there, you know. I mean, I'm not gonna sit there and just say, okay, let's pick at seventy five and ninety nine. No, I'm going I'm gonna try, and I'm gonna try and grab some of these players off

my board. Brian can't stand like letting the draft come to him, which is weird because he admires. He admires Baltimore so much, and that's what Baltimore does every year. But every year Brian wants to get rid of all of his picks. I want to move in a way. I want to move to get better players, is what I want to do. That's that's all I'm asking to do. Baltimore is the Baltimore in like Pittsburgh, they sit there and like, well, what's the number one need for Baltimore. Oh,

they need to tied in. They win the Super Bowl and then they get the best tied into fall to him at thirty two. Yeah you know, well, I mean maybe if you aren't trying to get rid of all your picks, you could do that too. Nah. You know what, the cowboy, Baltimore's roster is better than your roster. You saw the last year with your own eyes, confinitely. Yeah. Yeah, So if I'm going to beat Baltimore, it's not going to be sitting around waiting for me to pick somebody

at seventy five or somebody at ninety nine. It is I honestly, I see the appeal and and what y'all just said. You know, you can tie that to the tackle conversation if you if you tell me, if you tell like, let's let's just say they draft their ten at ten, because I think that's what they would prefer

it to. Yeah, if he's there, I think he's the I think he's the pick, and so you draft him ten and Genberg or Tevin Jenkins is hanging around at like twenty six package forty four and h and ninety nine and get up there and get yourself a tackle. I wouldn't hate that at all. I'd be in favor of that. Yeah, I think what you have to do to execute it, Like Brian talks about, I think you have to have your handful of players, like you have to have a bag of players that you would like

to get. And we do these exercises throughout the time as it gets closer to the draft, where hey, what does my ideal first two days look like if I have this player, this player, and that player, how would you field on the day or what about this combination of players. I think you have to have a handful of guys that you would like to identify as these other guys that we would really like to have, and you should have a handful of them in each round, and if you can get in range to get those guys,

get them. I am all about the players over picks. Like I know that a lottery tickets in any anybody can come out of it, but I would much rather have the play is that I want, as opposed to just sitting there on a bunch of picks that I'm just picking guys just to be picking them. The whole thing called end with this real quick. You know, I said I was going to be brief in our front. The thing that I don't want to sit there after day two and going into day three, which is the

scouts day. You know, the scouts day is at day three, day two, I don't want to be looking at all the tags that are picked and looking at someone else's team and going, damn, they drafted better than me today, you know. And and if somebody I always did that with the Chargers. The Chargers were always the team that I would look at and go, damn, they drafted better than me today, you know. And I don't want that.

I want to be the one that says my grades on that board, my grades on those tags are better than anybody else's grades on those tags. You know. I admire teams that can move around and find spots. Bucky's right, you know, your defense is a liability. Go fix it, you know. And if it means moving around doing some things, go fix it. Yeah. And I think it's likely that you're gonna see the Cowboys be aggressive in that fact, especially in Day two and day three, because you have

ten picks. You have ten picks right now, which, by the way, salary cap wise, it's gonna a lot about eleven million dollars. If you cut that down to eight picks and you package a couple to go up, then

you'd have less people to pay. I mean, I know that money is different and the allotment is different from the different rounds, but it could play out in the fact that, hey, instead of paying ten players, you're gonna pay seven players, but you went up and got a couple of top name guys and you're able to kind of maneuver your way around. I think it's very likely the Cowboys, and it may not be forty four and

seventy five or forty four and ninety nine. It may be two of their fourth round picks, or it might be two of their sixth round picks going up and trying to go get somebody else. So I think it's it's possible. The movement is going to be there now. This is the We might get two more questions in have you guys seen Jamar Johnson safety Jamar Johnson? He is out of Indiana. Anybody watched the school, I have not no no what was the school? Indiana? And Annamar Johnson.

So I'm gonna skip this question. Basically, that's the homework assignment is go watch him because apparently Lancer Lion has him as the number two safety on the board. Um, and somebody was asking us, GC was asking us. So that's homework assignment. Yeah. Can I ask a real quick question, what's the situation with Perkins from Oklahoma? What's what's his what's his story? Bucky? You got something on him? Perkins day.

I just know my podcast partner Danny Jeremiah fell in love with him and started throwing his name out, and I know that casts some buzz until the pro day and then he worked out and then all the bus quiet run really fast. Um, he flashed a little bit like he flashed a little bit of activity at I think you have five and a half sacks and those things like six games. Yeah, there's something, there's something that you have to dig in on that he wanted to try to address. I was saying the tape to me,

there's some positive things about the tape. I had not heard. I watched him last night because i'd heard a little the buzz you're talking about, but I do you know, people were talking about him like a first or second round guy. That's not the case in my opinion. But I was just curious if there was something more that I was missing there. But there's there's you know, we played six games and he said, hey, I have to mature,

I have to be better. I made a mistake, and so he's trying to be on the front end of whatever's about to come out in the back. I just wondered if someunthody had heard him. Yeah, something, something must be some in the background that he's trying to get got got you all right, Kyle, I'm sorry about Yeah, that was a great question, and that's somebody I know. The Cowboys have at least looked that direction at um. Now this next question comes from Landing McBride on Twitter.

He said, what are we supposed to think of Jason Away, the edge rusher from Penn State. I mean, we're talking about pinn State corners. A little bit earlier on, he said, all all of the cycle traits of a very good pass rusher without the production, what round could he potentially end up going in? And that's about right. He didn't have a single sack in twenty twenty after having five the season prior. The production just wasn't there. But I

mean he's a fun one to watch on tape. Brian, Yeah, he is, and you know, and I mean he's he's really got ideal size. I mean, if you talked about those edge type players, I know, going in I had him. He might be bigger. The measurements might have changed him at six five two fifty five. But man, I did see a guy that could attack the corner. I saw a burst of the way play, the lateral agility I

thought was really really good, the change in direction. There's some there's some problems though with this guy finding the ball. And I was like, man, physically everything checks off and then all of a sudden it's like WHOA ball went buy it? Or WHOA what's he looking at? Or you know, he's locked up with a blocker trying to get often. You know, if you could get the Ohio State game, that's one to watch where he said several of those mistakes in Ohio State's got a good offensive line. But

I mean, man, he could force turnovers. He's got the ability. But I just wonder though, and I'm not saying the mental but what is he really seeing as he's playing the game, And I don't know if anybody else saw the player the similar similar fashion to me. Bryan, I think his biggest issue I don't know if he's played a lot of football. I think he would late to the party when it came to a problem that might be they I think. I think I think he may have only played one or two years in high school.

Um coming over, So I don't Yeah, I don't know how much exposure he has, like Um. We did an interview where we talked to him and he talked about you know, I would because the question was why should someone view you as a first round pick this and that when you don't have production? And his response, in a roundabout way, he was, look, my best football is

ahead of me. I see the athleticism and all tools that I have and putting it together in those things, which isn't necessarily what you want to hear, but that was his thing. He hasn't played a lot of ball, and so what he is is a height, weight, speed dude. He's a great athlete who has tremendous activity and not a lot of achievement when it comes to being able to get the quarterback to the ground, and so where

do you take a chance of that from. I'm not comfortable taking a guy like that in the first round. I typically would prefer my projects outside of the first round. But if you're saying in the second round, we're looking for a pass rusher, Okay, let's throw it dirt and let's see if he can hit. Because he is going to run like the wind, he's gonna jump like Superman and all those other things. But now can you teach him to put his hand in the dirt and go

make plays. I don't know if that necessarily can be taught. I think some of that is a natural field, a natural instinct. I don't know how much of that you can teach a player, you know. Yeah, two thoughts? Yeah one? Sorry, go ahead, Brian, No, No, that's it. I had him in the second round. I thought I thought it was really I thought it was maybe too harsh on him. But like I didn't know all about the not playing football very much. But I just saw a guy. Though.

When you when you don't find the ball well enough for me, then I don't know how I could push in the first round. That's the first thing that took me. I cannot remember a year where I like, I don't think I love any of the prominent edge rusher prospects in this entie class, like which I don't remember a year where that happened. Like there's usually at least one guy that you're kind of juiced about, and I don't.

I don't see it this year. Yeah, And I'll steal the line right from Bucky, like, if you if you're not producing in college, I'm terrified about gambling that you're going to produce at a higher level. And if he's a if he's a high ceiling developmental guy, that's awesome. I'm not trying to say the Cowboys are Super Bowl contenders, but this is a ter that can, you know, contend to win the NFC East and put you in the playoffs if you'd make some good draft picks this year.

I want safe players, like this team should be drafting safe players. That's why, honestly, I feel great about drafting Patrick's Ertan because he might not get you super excited, but I think he's a safe prospect and I don't The last thing I want to do is to spend a big pick on a guy who's going to need a red shirt year like this is not This ain't the year for that for the Dallas Cowboys. Yeah, so I think, Oh, he played two years in high school. He was a big time obviously recruit. He was number

two in New Jersey when he came out. But you know, like when you deal with the recruiting things, a lot of it is on potential to see someone his size, with his athleticism and all that other stuff that makes it I mean, that makes it easy to give those guys a high ranking. But I am worried now. James Franklin would say, hey, he kept he put consistent pressure on the quarterback, and he did all those and he was always around the ball, and you know he impacted

the game in other areas. But Dave, going to your thing, Ozzie Knewsom. I used to sit up at the combine, you know where those guys just sit up high in the perch, and I would sit there and they would dispensing knowledge, and they would always say, guys who sacked the quarterback in college, they sacked the quarterback in the pros. There is something about guys who can get it down and if they can do it in multiple seasons, because

it's not just one year. Wonder if they do it in multiple seasons where you can track their production, that those are the guys that will do it in the pros. And so production matters when it comes to pass rushers, all that activity and leaping to all buildings in the single bottle? Can I get the quarterback to the ground and can you do it over multiple years? If you do that, more than likely you can do the same thing in the pros. I said this last week right

as we were shining off. But I always learned something from these shows, and that was one thing I learned last year Bucky the first show we ever did in the hotel room in Mobile, Alabama at the Holiday Inn or whatever it was, it was whenever you said, if you sack the quarterback in college, there's a good chance you could sack him in the pros. And since then, I've it's been locked in my brain, and that's what I thought whenever I saw a way as well as man,

that's not there. It's not there. I like everything else, everything that Brian was talking about, and I still would take him probably in the third that's probably the sweet spot for him for me. But man, I can't put him any higher than that. If he dad zero sacks in a good amount of stabs. That's my biggest thing for Brian's going Hayman, because this is like the lazy

coach scout analysis. Let somebody else develop him. I'm not in the process because by the time I get him to be a good player, he's going somewhere else as a free agent. True, yep, I hate to say it, but I want guys that are close to being plug in play, especially man. I want to be able to put him in the lot up and get everything. I don't want to spend a whole lot of time developing someone for somebody else. Right, and so, oh wait, maybe a good player, but if I'm shopping, I've I'll shop

in another ale. Like I'm fine, I'll go another alt is a great athlete, but I want someone who has a Let's go ahead and take our second break. Another fantastic twitter on the twenty. Hey, we got to like what six questions? That's a blot more than we ever have I think up. That works. Well done, everybody. Let's pat ourselves on the back. When we come back, we'll wrap things up and talk to you about a switch on the Draft Show lineups that will be coming next week.

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always presented by Miller Lyon. We've got about six minutes left in show and we will hit the lineup, switch ups, the switcheroos that Derek has just rained down upon all of us here on the Draft Show, in which we will enact starting next week. But first, Dave, I wanted to kind of you brought it up in our group message. Wanted to get your thoughts on the recent signings. I mean a lot of defensive line help coming in off

the free agency market. Of course, Kean O'Neil, you have the couple safeties that we've already talked about that are on their way to at least meet with the Cowboys. But do you see any of these free agents even remotely affecting what the draft plan is for the Cowboys? Because last year they shared up the holes could take best player available. Haven't seen a cornerback taken yet? Is

that something that you could look at? Um? Well, they I mean they resigned Jordan Lewis, which he's not an outside free agent, but I do I think that's worth noting just because and I'm not trying to sell anybody that this is a good idea. But Jordan Lewis, Anthony Brown, and Treyvon Diggs at least gives you a trio of guys who have started in NFL games, you know, again, played significant time. I said it in the last Yeah,

I said it in the last segment. I don't think they've done anything that would preclude them from making a pick. Like you know, these are not crazy investments, and that's what the Cowboys love to do. They pay over their holes with cheap signings and then they try to get the real value in the draft. I do think the stuff they've done along the defensive line is really interesting because just in terms of bodies, and again, to be fair, these are not deals like these guys don't have to

make the team, you know, haha. Clinton Dicks got cut last year. For the amount of money they're spending, there's no guarantee that all these guys will be on the roster. But when you look at Brent Urban, you add that to the duo of Tristan Hill and Neville Gallimore. Antoine Woods got his tender, so he's likely back. It makes me wonder what they think about this defensive tackle class and you know, obviously, when you have ten picks, you can use them on a lot of different guys. Maybe

they draft a guy on Day three. But we've talked about how there aren't a lot of crazy, great d tackles at the top of this draft. It makes me wonder if they spend extra time adding body to that to make sure that they don't need to draft one. That's kind of the impression that I got. Yeah, talking to guys around the league who do pro evaluations, we're really high on the Urban signing. Yeah, they love that one. That was They feel like the Cowboys hit a home

run on that one. Watkins not so much work came out today though Florida State Pro Day. They have their defensive line coach down there working out some of their prospects. Maybe Wilson, Yeah, Marvin Whistical will be involved in those mixed So keep an eye on that. If you're sending coaches out to work guys out, you're generally trying to get their opinion, in their idea on if they feel like that those guys can play. So yeah, I will

McClay loves to protect himself, he does. I mean, he's going to say, Okay, I'm going to sign a guy with the thought of, okay, I could still draft somebody. I don't think they're married to any of these guys. But again, talking to what I call my gang of seven guys around the league that give me information about these play they really do like what the Cowboys did at defensive tackle. I say with with Urban and then

Basham as well. They feel like that bash him if he gets back to where his weight was when he was with when he came out, you know, at two sixty five to seventy right around there, that he might even be a better player. But they were very complimentary of those guys. You know, Dave, I think what you want to always be able to do is you want to be able to line up in play. If we were to play a game today, can we line up

in play? So when you think about Lewis and Brown and Digs, it gives us an opportunity to line up in play right now now when it comes to the draft, that won't prevent you, as you said, from drafting another player, but at a minimum, you have a starting lineup where you feel like you can be competitive. And so that's why some of these things are they're the only signing that I think might impact it. The Keyanunil thing is interesting to me because moving him to week side linebacker,

I'm wondering what does that mean? Does that mean and base package he's the guy that is displaced over the slot receiver kind of being a big nickel player, and doesn't mean when they do go to their quote unquote nickel package, who comes out the game? Is that Jaylen Smith off the field? Now is Keyan O'Neil LV A

nickel corner and the rest of the crew. So I'm curious to see that because we're seeing more teams us that will linebacker as a hybrid player, and to me, they're seeing a lot without saying anything by saying, oh, we're moving Keyan O'Neil two weeks out of linebacker. Oh you mean hybrid? You mean he's the big nickels safety. So now what does that mean when we put, yeah, the real nickel package on the field. Yeah. I think you're absolutely right, Bucky. I think they take Jalen Smith

off the field. I think Kean O'Neil is gonna play strong safety, you know, and you talk to people around the league about him, though they will say really good run defender physical, and you want him down there. Don't want him in coverage though they even covered tight ends and stuff like that. It's a liability for him. Playing in space could be a little bit of a liability

from what I heard. So, Yeah, I think this is going to be vanderash Neil playing down, bringing Nickel on and then and then try and play it that way. But I think he can early downs. I think in early downs they're gonna keep Jalen Smith on the field. Yeah, he's so he's the dimebacker. Keyan O'Neil is the dimebacker. If he's out here in bases whatever, But exactly when they go die, he's the dimebacker. He's coming in there and he's he's near a line of scrimmage. Because they

want a more athletic defense. I think that's the thing that showed up last year. More speed is needed on to be faster and more athletic to be able to compete and tell change of direction was a problem for this defense last year. Yeah, we know they're not here. They let his salary guarantee. I don't think that's a huge surprise, but I also you know, when I hear that Neil's gonna play a linebacker. I think it's a little bit simplistic, like, yeah, Jalen Smith is still gonna

play a ton of snaps. But yeah, even if even if Keyan O'Neil's specialty is in coverage, you need better athleticism when teams go small and fast, and I think that's what that is. Now we are going over time, but I did want to hit this really quickly. We will have different lineups as of next week. Now this is still proposed, so this can still change. But Tuesday's show next week on The Draft Show, Brian brought us along with the great Dane Brugler and Jeff Cavanaugh are

the three that you get. Yeah, you only do five hours of radio with Jeff a day, Brian, you ready to do another one on The Draft Show next week. I mean, I'll tell you what, Man, that that crew is gonna beat me up, Buddy, Bucky gets after me. Man, crew is gonna he's gonna wear me out. The second crew next Thursday will be Bucky, Dave and Kat. Sorry to cut you off there, Bucky, Oh no, I don't. I don't be Brian up and all. I like it. It's a love fest, like I've been going hard at

Hillman for less. I was gonna say, but now, but then I'm like, I can't even see I'm temails you because you guys are go Tigers all the time. Yeah, that's right, that's right, that's okay, that's not playing basketball anymore. But that's all right because about that. Yeah, yeah, goodness, gracious, neither's North Texas either, Kat Come on now, it's yeah, whatever season, it's draft season. Now, it's hey, I'm gonna miss you guys. I'm gonna miss I'm gonna miss you guys.

Though you guys do a great job on that Thursday show. I'll be I'll be watching. I know you guys. Will you guys, We'll keep in touch, don't worry, please do. We're all in a group text already, so it'll it'll stay the same. But that's gonna do it for us here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. I hope you learned something here over the last hour. I

certainly did. But want to thank Chris Beam in the back, the great Bucky Brooks Bryant brought us in David Helman um Kyle Yelman saying so long, we'll see you Thursday on the Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club h