Draft Show: NFL Combine Invites & Snubs

twenty eighteen NFL Draft. A big announcement from the Cowboys today. Charlotte Jones Anderson at the facility, actually at the at eight T and T Stadium talking about things the ambassadors for the draft with DeMarcus Ware Andrew Pearson. So nice to hear some news with the draft being in our own backyard, first time it's ever going to be in

a stadium. I'm really I'm excited. I'm yeah, I'm excited to see, you know, and the way that can the Cowboys do things, you know, with game productions and things like that. I'm very interested to see what kind of you know, it's a league it's a league deal. It's a league event. But you know, the Cowboys will have a little have a little saying like, hey, once you try this, once you try that, and hopefully everybody but should be a good three days in the area. A spectacle.

It will be a spectacle. We'll be here, We'll be in this little room for three days. Say it's not gonna look a whole lot different. Yah, we'll hunker down. Well, we'll go through all the picks with you, as we'll always do picks one through a two fifty two or two fifty six, whatever number we have the next event on the schedule. And I do want to get into

this because I think it's important. The Combine list came out yesterday, Dane Burglar, and I'm always interested about the guys that, uh, you know, of course, you know you're you're gonna get What was the total number of guys that we got for the combine this year to twenty or three twenty six, three twenty six, And give me the number of the guys that that that don't go

and get drafted. What was that number? Over the last five years, the averages thirty five players about thirty five players get drafted every year that aren't good and then they're one hundred and ten players that go get drafted. Let me focus on the guys that are gonna go. Okay, I'll focus on those guys. Wow, you know, because it's a third of the guys that are going to be there. Yeah, and they this nfs Uh, they'd say their goal is

to invite everybody who's going to be drafted that's there. Yeah. Uh? Are they are they living up to that goal? The number TEA with the numbers, do the numbers appear that the guy that they're that they're going the right way about that with you know, it's gonna happen where a few players are gonna slip through the crack. Sure, thirty five every year. That's a little too many. And I

get it. Look, they're thirty two teams drafted here thirty two you know, different schemes, different philosophies, different understandings of the players they're looking for. So you know, we're they're gonna be different opinions. But to miss a thirty five guy, that's a lot and a lot of some of these guys are late bloomer, you know, in the process that workout Warriors. So they're gonna, you know, do really well at the Pro Day and all of a sudden they

turn into a six or seventh round pick. That'll happen. Understandable. But for some of these snubs, they're just not three hundred and twenty six better players. But it didn't drafting them, you know, wild I was. I was makes the undrafted free agency free for all on Sunday afternoon a little more exciting though, right you know. I was going through and and some guys that that I was looking at.

I was going back and kind of saying some guys some names that I hadn't seen, and I mentioned up that I mentioned to you that the kid from Old Dominion Teamy, Yeah Boomy, Uh bummy bummy, but bu m I Boomy, Okay bummy Sureimmy bummy rut Timmy. That's pretty good. Yeah, bummy rut Timmy from Old Dominion. Okay, young man's going to combine. I watched him on tape today. He is not a better player than Punaford, who is the top snublish. Yeah, I'm just telling you right now, I don't know what.

I don't know what, And no offense the folks out there at Old Dominion. You know Nancy Lieberman final alumni theres yeah, you and the Commonwealth and the Commonwealth exactly right. But he is not a better player then than Poonaford. Now, I will tell you this though. There's there's a couple of guys I did I did not know about that that are at this that got invited that I hadn't seen yet. I will and I know you need to look at this guy. Yeah, but Matt Dickerson from UCLA,

who are you? No, don't do that to me, Ken, don't do that. He's a defensive tackle. Yeah, he's didn't playing a little bit three technique, play a little bit. This guy sixty three, two hundred ninety pounds. That's his measurables right there. He might be a little bit of a guy that you would say is a four three defensive end, Isn't that? Isn't that the fun thing? A little bit though, Like everybody, I everybody chips in a little bit like I did not know anything about him,

and I thought it together. I thought, I looked at several of the top defensive linemen in this thing. I thought I had an idea I just get in the third round. Well, he missed most of the year. Yeah, but yeah, well we watched the game, watch the Texas A and M in Stanford game, and tell me you wouldn't draft this kid. Oh yeah, No, I'm just saying that's why he's kind of going overlooked at this point. How do you overlook a guy? I mean, and he's going to combine, So that's a good that's a good

right there. But I mean I could say Ford. I look back at Ford and I'm thinking, you know, I look at the kid at Old Dominion and I'm like, no, why do you know? Why do you think that is? Like? Do they want to have I got it, I got my idea, Dane. Do you think they want to have a small school big school disparity? I think I think they are married to their preseason grades. They preaching really dumb. Yes,

it is. Yeah, the grades that they come out with over the summer, which you know, there's how many teams subscribe to NFS. It's like twenty, yeah, something like that, and then there's like eight that belonged to Blessed four that don't belong to any scouting service. They they're a smaller scouting service. But yeah, the preseason grades that they come up with over the summer. They're so married to those and they don't change them enough. That's insane based

on the senior see. Oh yeah, absolutely. So a guy like Poona Ford who didn't have a lot of juice coming into the year, but then he turns into the big twelve defensive linemen of the year, Yeah, fantastic twenty seventeen. He gets overlooked because he wasn't highly graded enough in the summer, and it hurts a player like that unfortunately. So yeah, I think that that's my theory on how that kind of happens. Would you agree with that? Brian

nosolutely agree with that. You've got eight No, screw that college football ends on Thanksgiving, You've got two and a half. A little too, I think we're a little too snobbish there right now. I think we're a little too snobbish and the way that we the way that we go about picking these players for the common you've got to have the ability to have some flexibility at this thing. And trust me, I've been going to the thing since nineteen ninety two. I've seen it when it wasn't on TV.

There was a day I'm like, there's no way in hell they're putting this on TV and now it's like must see, must see. There were ten there were ten twelve riders covering it. I thought about this this morning, like, I mean, we we cover the championship parade like it's and now like if if you can put it on TV. But you know, the Combine has now become like must watch TV in the NFL calendar and something else. I

think that's hurt um some of these seniors. Is all the underclassmen coming out, right, because that's in the way the Combine does it is they send out the invites and waves, and so they hold off a good chunk of invites until we get the official underclassmen list, which isn't released until you know, January fifteen, sixteen seventeenth around there, and then that next wave goes out to a lot of these underclassmen. That's some we didn't expect to come out.

So the excessive number of underclassmen hurts a lot of these seniors who then lose a spot because of some of these underclassmen. Yeah, and we find it out a lot of these underclassmen can't play. There's got to be something they can do. Yeah, we've got to figure something out. Okay, go through. I just want you to go through a few of your guys well and the snubs. I mean, you know you mention I'm like one hundred and fifty players into this thing, and you know you're well beyond that.

We mentioned Punaford. Yeah, he's a good player that should be going. Yeah, I think the cat from Old Dominion shouldn't. My second highest graded guy right now. I think is Doris Fountain from Okay, We've talked about him, guy from Uh, he's gonna test really well wherever that is it's Pro Day whatever I thought an Iowa BA. Yeah, he's gonna test really well. He's an ideal late round candidate to stash on your team. Develop him. Like him a lot

a couple of Senior Bowl guys. Kind of surprising. Uh. Bradley Bozeman, the center from Alabama had a good week. Had now he wasn't bad. No, he had a good week. Uh do you think because the center class is a little bit deeper that Bozeman didn't get yet? But he he's not is he's He's a guy that deserves an opportunity to go. I agree, I'll see him at Pro Day. I'm going to Alabama's pro day, by the way, are you Yeah? I'm gonna drive. When did you When did

you decide that? Just two minutes ago? Just right now, just right now, there's gonna be fifteen guys out there, so you might I'm gonna go and be a part of Alabama's pro day. Okay, I'm just gonna make that true. I know how to get to Alabama on the road. How far from Dallas? About eight It's about eight and a half hours. You just take you just take twenty twenty across on hours east. I'll go see that center. Okay. How about a few safety that didn't have to invite? Yeah,

Treyvon Henderson Hawaii. We talked about him at the Senior Bowl, Darling. Yeah, Jeremy Reeves South Alabama. See, now there's another guy that you know. You watched the South Alabama tape, and that's he's a good football player. I mean, I'm watching him. Let's see what I said. I mean, I'm trying to. At one time in my life, I used to be all just take notes off the top of my head. Can't do that well. Jeremy Reeves is a guy that he played corner, played strong, and this past year they

moved in the free safe. Yeah he was terrific. Oh, absolutely, yeah. I'll tell you, Dan, I watched the kid. I just can't remember everything about him. Here, let's see, where's my man. He's a draftable player. Yeah, I don't think he's a top one hundred player, but he's a draftable player. No, he is. And and like you say, you're talking about the ball skills, you're talking about the physicality as a tackler.

I mean, there's a lot of positive things about this kid. Yeah, I mean, and they say he was He got an opportunity to play at his home, his home stadium there, and he showed up. Well he did, which you know what, what like, if you show up well, you should be able to go to the combine at these bowl games and stuff. I'm not gonna spend a lot of time crying for an Alabama guy that doesn't get invited because the whole league is going to descend on his building

for their pro day. I'll be there. But South Alabama and Hawaii, I mean, don't get me wrong. In the NFL, they'll turn over every stone, but the Hawaii Pro Day, it's probably not going to be as well attended as well. What they do. What they do is those kids, they bring them, they bring them to the mainland. Yeah, they'll do in California. Where where will it be though, like UCLA USC one of those whoever San Diego States sever

the coaches are tight. Yeah, yeah, those kids. You don't have to travel to Hawaii to work these kids out. They will bring the kids to you. Right, Maybe that was a bad example. Some of some of these kids aren't going to get the opportunity to be seen at South Alabama exactly right. Should we've already been to Mobile once. Now the kid play South Alabama will probably have I know,

I know what you're saying. Eight scouts there, Yeah, you know, on their way to on their way to Florida State or what exact games will they these scouts will line it up, let's play well, let's play Devil's advocate like I you know. As frustrating it might be for us that some of these kids aren't invited. There's probably scouts that are like keep them out of endy good exactly's

absolutely I gotta beat on this guy. I just think the medicals say, and yeah, you're right, we'll bring these guys, the medical thing is the most important thing at the combine. Yeah right, and that's just and that's what we don't have access to, and that hurts our board sometimes. Yeah No, that's I mean, we're until the tape until April wind. Oh Jane was up on the show and he's like, you know that guy you love, he's not getting drafted. No,

that's got a bad problem. The problem we have with that is and you're absolutely right, it happens where you have a guy as a first, second, third round grade and all of a sudden, well, Dane, who do you got left on your board? Well? I have so that what was that pit tackle several years ago? Clemens had a hurt foot, Nobody really knew about it, and all of a sudden, it's like we're sitting in day three and I'm looking at Dan. Something is wrong with Clement?

Super Bowl champion jay a Gy Yeahraisy State fans still hate me. I'm out on Well, you were right though, That's what I said after the draft, like he went to the fifth round obviously something was going on. Oh, they just they read your report and they didn't You give me a lot of credit where you think that NFL teams see what I say and say, oh, we're gonna back off him. No teams flagged him because of

his injuries, and look good for him. He's played in the league with three years now, two thousand, two thousand plus rushing yards and er Bowl champion, sparked the little thing on his finger. So good for him that he's been able to do it. I was rooting for him. I'll never get over that. He should have been a cowboy. Every year there's gonna be these guys. This year, it probably a guy that we we've talked at length about. You know, we'll be the medicals. Yeah, in a month,

we'll be talking about oh depleted. Oh no, yeah, oh he's got a narrow spine. Seriously, No, it happens. You're sitting there and you're and you're like, you're just like, you're so excited about seeing these guys at the combine the workout, and you're like, all right, man, the tape's good, the workout's good. Oh wait a minute, he's got what he's got on a regular heartbeat. Oh he's a he's a this, you know, he's he's got this kind of trait.

But it does sells or something. You know, thirty five of thirty five of these guys, give or take, won't be in a position for us to know that, which sucks. And that's exactly the point, because, yeah, it would be nice to know the full medical information on some of these guys that you know, take a guy I was just finished his report the other day, Cameron Moore from Boston College. Yeah, he's an interesting player. I think might

be a better safety than corner. But he is a guy that the last three years twice his season ended early with an injury, and you just you worry about, Okay,

what's going on with the durability is long term? Is that something you've got to be worried about for a lot of these players that don't get invites to the combine you're going based on you know, you're gonna have to bring him in as a thirty visit, Yeah, to get kind of the information or you know, it's just it kind of stresses the team a little bit to

get that info. Yeah, I say, I always appreciate the kids, and I think they do a better job now with the combine being later in February, super late this year, Later in February March because traditionally March twelfth was like the day of all the big workouts. I think you're going to be a week later on that. But you're giving kids the opportunity to at least finish their season and then get ready for the combine. You know, you're at least allow I mean, the best thing in the

world was. I always respected the kids that worked out at the combine. You know. But then again, if a kid can run, he can run. Yeah, there's kids that can roll out of bed and run. Sitting here thinking even even the Alabama and Georgia kids who weren't done until January eighth, Yeah whatever, I mean there, it's almost two months after the fact. Sure they could get ready. If you can run, you can run. But it gives you six weeks to go work on your three cone

or whatever it is you want to work on. No. I just and that's a completely different problem altogether. A team or these guys are training for oh, sure, combine exercises instead of football. There was a time where that that's just that's the beast at this point, that's what television's that's where television's helped the player, if you want to be honest, because you show those drills right there used to be a time where nobody really knew what

the drills wore at the combine. Yeah, it was interesting. Um, I went back and I was looking at combine data. Um, you know, I looking at Trell Owens and all that, and I went back to the ninety six combine. Uh that's when Owens and Dawkins is in that draft. Yeah. Uh. And they didn't have the three cone. They had the four square four square. Yeah, I forgot. I forgot all about that. They went from the four square to the three cone right in the in the late nineties. So

that was interesting. Abracado, Yeah, with his baby God rushed your Solcio, one of the great scouts. Never ever go out and hit the road. First guy ever went scouting with ron Wolf sent me with him to Iowa. Says, you're going to meet this guy at Iowa. Don't miss it's the legend. Don't mess it up. Passed Away was with the Houston Oilers and then the Tennessee Titans. Just a great but he invented the three cone drill. And I think it's to me people ask about that all

the time. What's the most important drills? I love those drills with the movements, the short shuttles, the three cones, those are the drills that important. I mean, I want to see guy be able to redirect. I want to see guy a balanced movement quickness. Alonzo high Smith who longtime Scott with the Packers now at the Brown Yeah, he told me that, you know the most important thing is how does a player perform in space? Yeah? How

does a player hold up in space? And the three cone and those kind of drills help illustrate exactly that. So that does help, Yeah, it sure does. I just like I said, I love the combine, but really focus on the medical aspect of it. Yeah, that's where you really really really need to focus. A few more guys that didn't get Arron Johnson, the Weaver State corner that the Senior Bowl he is not going. A couple Auburn guys. Trey Williams, a linebacker will him Yeah, And Trey Matthews,

the safety he will not be at the Combine. See now, people, Okay, Trey Matthews has an interesting story because of what happened to him at Georgia. Kicked out of George after his freshman season. See this is things you could learn when you if you have a kid at the combine, rightet, eighteen minutes with a guy, yeah, you get eight You get time to sit there and visit with him and have an opportunity to ask him a few more questions. Now you'd have to bring him in or do something

at his work. He's had plenty of injuries too. He had he had surgery on both shoulders within a four week period. Yeah, I mean there's so there's durability stuff there too. So yeah, Trey Matthews would have been a perfect guy to have at the combine for the off field, for the medical and then I'm he's kind of a safety linebacker tweeter a little bit. I want to see how he performs in some of these agility drills. So yeah, it's disappointing he won't be there that that's too bad

for him. And one of the guy I wanted to mention Joe Ausman from Central Michigan. There is a guy who led the FBS averaging one point three sacks per game this past year. So Ausman, say the name Joe Ausmon, Joe Aston, Michigan, Central Michigan. He's undersized, short arms, smaller guy. So the measurables aren't there, but still I would I have liked to see I thought he deserved a chance a bit combine sack a game one point three sacks for Yeah, I led the FBS bad great name, Joe

Ausmon the mack. Take a look at my guy Dickinson too, by the way, from Yeah, from UCLA. He's on the list for sure. Please watch him today. He'll appreciate me later. All right, when we come back, how about me going on break on time? Yeah, look at you. Yeah, when we come back, we do a little Twitter on the twenty and then at after Twitter on the twenty today we're gonna do a little why or why not, So stay tuned for that. It can be hard to find

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Brian broad Us, Dame Burglar, David Hellman, K Garrison Executive producing. This is one of my I always say this, this is one of my favorite parts of the show. I love the back and forth when we get into players tell me more after the combine. It's one of my favorite because it again you talk about guys. But I do like the interaction that we do have with the fans on Twitter, and I do want to say the people that are falling along on Periscope Live. I just

said thank you for doing that as well. That is such a new and different medium. Yeah. Now I'm kind of watching the comments and stuff like that, you know. I mean, people are ripping you Helme, and that's okay. I'll let them do that happens now. I'm just kidding. It's really not they probably I love Dane, they hate me, that kind of thing. But no, everybody loves Dane. Most people like you. The least amount of people like me

about that. But no, we do appreciate everybody out there that that follows along this way and the people that go back and watch. Hey, if you're working out, you know, we'll provide you an hour worth of content when you're on the treadmill out running around whatever you want to do, walking, lifting, whatever. But we do appreciate that. All right, David, I will give you the platform for a little twitter on the Twitter.

Go for it, sir. Really relevant question from Kai in light of what we were talking about right before the last break. He says numbers are important, but which player will have the most important interviews at the Combine this year? And that maybe I'm just not that god our fans with thinking I'm not thinking deep enough, because there's not there's not a guy that jumps out to me other than Baker Mayfield. There's not a guy that jumps out

to me. Is like kind of like, well, Rosen, I said, yeah, Rosen has got to prove to people that he is not the guy that everybody thinks he is. Yeah, which is like the smarmie. Yeah, I've said. He when he's in a conversation, he thinks he's the smartest one in the conversation. Girls if who was talking to That's just how he is. And he can't get away with that

at Combine interviews, right, there's no chance. And so he better check himself at the door, learn some humility and even if it's an act, even if he knows like that's he's just gonna revert back to whoever he is, uh, you know, down the line, and once he gets drafted, at least put that on the shelf for now, and you know, show a little bit of humbleness. And I'm not sure he's able to do that. It's just not

in his DNA, not in his makeup. But it's really important for a lot of these teams that they see that from him when they interview him. Yeah, I totally agree. See, the quarterbacks are always the fascinating group because you want him a little you want him a little cocky. I want them with a little Edgar Rodgers isn't a very

humbled person. Yeah, but you, but you, But you better figure things out real fast to them because there's a lot of people, there's a lot of general managers that maybe guys that haven't gone on the road, you know, maybe they've had to stay with their teams and worry about their teams, and they haven't had a chance to go to the schools and talk to these guys about these players. This will be the first opportunity that they have to to see him, maybe maybe a head coach.

He'll be his first opportunity as well to kind of talk to him. What about I mean, is there and well is there? Like we got any gun runners in this draft? I mean Joe Mixon famously wasn't invited to the Combine. I'm struggling to think. I wrote a story. That's that story I wrote about I felt bad for all my buddies. That's the one time in my life I felt out about being the Combine and being a media guy because I felt like me being there did not allow them to talk to Joe Mixon. Oh yeah,

I remember, I remember you writing that that was that. Yeah, the media's fault. Yeah, the media's fault because I talked to several guys that said, hey, listen, if you guys weren't here, Joe Mixon would be here. And I felt bad for that. I felt like I felt like that those guys. And I'll tell you I talked to John Dorsey, John Snyder, those guys, you know, they were like they they wanted to talk to the Kid's a dumb rule.

It's a terrible it's a terrible rule. We said it last year when they announced it, and it's still this terrible rule. And yeah, I don't Yeah, this year, I don't think we have any of those guys, at least, you know, Mixon level guys. But arden Key, you know arden Key. Yeah, he's got a lot of a lot of things to answer for, just with the durability with you know, how much does he love football, how important is it for him to reach his ceiling as an

NFL player. There's a lot going on with him. I think Mike Hughes, another possible Top twenty player, could be in the mixing teen who knows. He started his career at North Carolina and he was kicked out because he got into a fight at three am at a fraternity party. Had been there, knocked a guy out. Clean you you were the guy knocked out, of course, Yeah, no, I

wouldn't let him knock you out. Oh thanks, Brian. So yeah, there's plenty of these guys that have something to answer for, and even if it's just you know, kind of their journey where they came from. A guy like Ian Thomas, who great, We talked about him. Yeah, that's one of our guys for that. We did died in from Indiana. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we did. Yes, yeah yeah on future, yeah, on the clock stuff. One of my favorite players in this draft, a Cowboys third round Yeah, sign me up.

But he's kind of a late bloomer coming up through Baltimore. Not in the greatest situation. Both his parents died early at a young age, and so he him and his siblings he had like nine siblings, he has he had

the maneuver through that. So just hearing it from the kid and you know, talking about his life experience, their perspective on things, and then of course just the football intelligence, you know, it's these combine interviews are quick and so it's there's only so much to gather, but still you can talk about concepts, talk about different schemes, what they're

It's the first impression, right, It's the first impression. It's the first time you get and then if you really like the kid, you'll bring him back for one of your thirties. Right, And the first question you'll ask is what was the first thing? I remember that thing I asked you back at the combine. Yeah, what was the answer to that? Yeah, exactly, better have the answer. You're a GM. Seriously, why are you sitting here with me?

We talked about combine snubs. And then there's the category of the forgotten guy who does get a combine invite, which Connor wants to know about Wisconsin linebacker Jack Dane. Help me with the name Cishi City City? Who was he did get a combine invite? Yeah, he's injured in August or September, I believe, Yeah City, right, And there are a lot of names we're having to do with. Yeah, Jack City, Like, she's kind of the he's a kind of the forgotten guy in this drift because he Yeah,

towards a cl in August. He had a peck injury last year that kind of bothered him. But when he's healthy and on the field, he's outstanding. Uh, like a fluid athlete, moves really well. Uh. Yeah, we both really like to bite Byu or linebacker Fred Warner. She's like a bigger, better version of that. But the durability is what you worry about. Yeah, is a guy that has not been able to stay healthy, hasn't been able to stay on the field, and typical Wisconsin former walk on. Yeah.

You know, I don't know how they find these walk ons. Uh, but you know he's a Wisconsin kid who just went overlooked late bloomer the way he developed. But he I think he's a big time player. The biggest thing is just injuries kid from BYU. Yeah, awesome, Well, and let me know what you think. That's what I need to do. You're right, give me the opportunity at the segue because Payson wants to know who's a better fit for the Cowboys, Fred Warner or Darius Leonard South Carolina State, and Warner's

coming to us from jog my memory. I like Leonard. Yeah, I think I like yeah, I do. And uh, you know it's interesting that. Yeah, I'm not a question God darn, that's a good question. I'm not talking about just purely as a prospect you're talking about for the Cowboys. Yeah, okay, Yeah, I mean I'm gonna go back again. I think Fred Warner's a linebacker that all thirty two teams are gonna like. Yeah.

He's not scheme specific, right, He's a guy that has the type of skills that no matter what formation you're running, what sub package, he's a guy that fits in some form or fashion with his ability to hold up uh and run support, his ability and coverage, the overall range he has on the field. Yeah. I'm a big Fred Warner fan too, So I give me Warner. I think

he's a better player. You know what though, I mean, I I don't just agree with anything you're saying about Warner, but I'm looking at my Leonard notes and I and I this is a guy that can flow to the ball, and you see that with Warner two. I mean you talk about quick read, flow, sideline the sideline or hurry you know, just how to go for turnovers, gets off blocks, plays with his hands, runs through tackles. You know, I

think that the only thing I saw. But he has to be a little careful about breaking down in space. That's the one thing I saw. But other than that, man, the guy's got ball skills, reads, reacts, outstanding plain speed. But I think Warner is a little bit bigger guy on tape where Leonard is a thinner guy. Yes, you know one, yeah, six two, two twenty nine. Warner looked like that. I think he was two thirty five at the at the senior ball, where Leonard was two twenty nine.

But these cats get to the ball. It's South Carolina State. They've been pumping out some defensive guys. Yeah, Javon Hargrave, they sure have. He won the MEAC Defensive Player Year his junior and senior seasons. He went to the NFL. Darius Leonard steps in. He won the defensive Player of the Year in the MEAD South Junior South Carolina State. They've been pumping out some dudes and Leonard, where do you think he ends? If you think he's a third rounder, fourth rounder? I got him in the only just I

don't have to guess. I mean, if I could pull my notes up here again, I to me. Warner is a Warner. I thought I had him in the I had him in the third. Yeah, I agree, And I think I had Leonard in the fourth. Is how I did it? Yeah, that's that's right around the range. If you guys keep visiting, I will tell you exactly. I can't believe I didn't pull up my poor damn notes. No, my board, your board, my board. I need my board

to come up here is what I need. I have a two three on Warner, he's my number five linebacker. And then yeah, I don't disagree with you there, Leonard. I have it in the fourth right behind your boy Shakim m Jaquim Griffin. You guys are gonna be right about Shaquim. No, you're gonna be right. I want to know. I want him to I want him to be great. And you know, and you know Cabanat, we had this discussion in the Kavanaugh Jeff Kavanaugh from Winder five three,

Kevin Turner, you know those guys. They you know, I'm always from the school of if you know three guys out of four telling me this is what it is, you know, I'll fight you all day. But when I got three guys that I trust telling me broadus think about it this way. You're saying that you would take them in a second and work. Oh yeah, I'm cheerleading. I got the palm palms. I'm waving them. You know,

I'm jumping up and down. And you guys are saying, whoa broadest tappitt y'all are trying to take me into a ditch right here, and I'm not gonna lay no. I got Actually, I got Warner. I got Warner in the second round, and I got Leonard in the third. That's how I got it. I'm going to attribute this question to Jay, but really, we've got a small army of people asking us about these two guys, like I mean, dozens of people want to know why aren't we talking

more about Tavin Bryan and Tim Settle. I watched Tim Settle yesterday. These are defensive tackles, both of them. Big boy. Bryan's from Brian's from Florida, Settles from Virginia. There's people that think I've I've got Brian. People tell me Bryant should be a consideration at nineteen. I don't. There's no way I would take him at nineteen. But I will tell you this though, there's people I like out there that that look at this stuff, you know, and they

bring up the sack numbers. You know, for Brian the four sacks. Well, that's the reasons. That's not bad for a tackle. That's what I'm saying for a defensive tackle where his strength is to get into the backfield because he's no I understand he is struggles big time versus the run. Watch you watch the SEC offenses. They'll run right at him because they know exactly what he's gonna do and he has no gap discipline and teams are

able to run at him. His strength is as a past rusher, his ability to his quickness off the ball at tack gaps, us his upper body power, he can snatch blockers move them. There's a lot to like from a trades perspective. He's now standing athlete, but you know, again trades over production. But six tackles for lost last year. I need a guy that knows what he's doing. Oh yeah, that's yeah, you're right. I mean I do think he can get better. I do think that there's upside there.

I'm just not drafting a guy that I hope reaches his upside at least that big of a gap at number nineteen, I would take him in a second round. What about Settle? What do you think is he's I was just a big guy who know That's what I'm saying, and I'll I'll do settle for you. I mean I pushed some mill the pocket plays with some power of some quick inside moves, disruptive when he comes off the ball, balance, doesn't go to the ground when they try and cut him.

Tries to bend, but not always successful. Needs to finish the rush. That's where I saw a lot of like he was always close, yeah, and never really finished the rush. I thought there were times where he was lazy rushing too absolutely where like his conditioning at three hundred and thirty five pounds was problematic for him. And it seems like most of it's up here. Yeah, he's got a lord, he's gotta like a funny built body. He's like a potato with straw stuck in him. He's got this big man.

You know, think about always have the best and now we'll think about the visual of that. Yeah, take a potato. Potato kind of looks it sticks straws in it, and that's how he looks. He's like vitaa if Vita Vero couldn't bend or you know, play lego and drop his hips, and you know, he's just he's a big guy, but he's just he's kind of a one gapper, you know, like he can't two gap. He doesn't anchor. And if you're that size, kind of know your role, you know.

And there's a lot of good one techniques in this drafts. He's like a one technique who wants to be a three techno. Yeah, the way he plays via Payne Phillips, you know, I mean that's kind of I mean, there's guys ahead of him. If you're gonna draft a one technique, I'm taking those guys over. I am taking him with grade. You slap on him. I put him in the fourth. Yeah, that's I have a fourth on him too. Yeah, all right. But just I was people were kept telling me, look

at the sky Bross. I did, and I and and I saw him kind of lazily make plays, you know, kind of lazily rush. And I'm thinking he needs to get in better condition. If he gets it better, because he does have some traits. But if he comes to the combine at three twenty, do anything for you, I'd be happy for him more of a more of a red flag for me, because just getting into the shape for this, yeah, why yeah, why do you play You're

playing strength? Was this and you know you're just gonna revert back to it and so yeah, it's I know this is a this is a trap that we advise fans not to fall into. But it's getting to the point where I'm terrified of these Florida defensive linemen. Just talking about Bryan just a second. No, I'm and that's why I said it. I'm just I need one of these guys to actually do something in the league. And Brian's interesting because he's he's a Wyoming kid, first Wyoming

kid ever to go to Florida. You know, there's a lot of traits there, a lot to work with. Just there's some things to worry about, for sure. Fimy wants to know. And I feel like there's a veiled Byron Jones shout out in this question because he says, who's a guy we are not talking about right now who could vault into the first round conversation here in the kind I mean, you know, I would that's post Combine more than likely, which the first, I mean Byron Jones

is a great example about your guy. Alexander full name Brian. Come on, Jerry, Alexander school Brian. I mean, he's top twenty on my board, so I'm gonna let him talk about him, you know. I to me, he's already a first round so that okay. He's top twenty on my draft board, so it's not a It wouldn't be a surprise to me. I think he's absolutely deserving a first round consideration. It's just he's a little undersized. He missed most this year with injury that could keep him out.

I got a name for you. Yeah, Louisville's to school, by the way, I just wanted to day interrupt him. Yeah, it's Believille. Uh what if I told you I'm from the future, I'm from May First, I come back and I tell you guess what you know? Won't believe he went in the first round. DJ Chark, Oh okay, Jeff Kavanaugh, No, Jeff Kavanaugh will fuller at this time two three years ago? Oh no, okay, I'm miss say, guys that can take the top off in the defense. Literally, did you do

trust to tape podcast yesterday? Yeah? Okay, did you have that discussion. I didn't listen to that yesterday's discussion. Three nights ago, we watched Chark with with v hows you guys were hammering, no, no, no, no. Kavanaugh just quietly goes, I just I'm not saying he is. But I don't think it's impossible that DJ Chark's the best receiver in this class when it's all same. I think that's nuts. I mean, thank you, but at least for acknowledging that

I think he's a third round player. But I'm saying, we're just looking at all right back to the question and what the NFL values speed at the receiver position, the ability about some consistency. How about the fact that there's gonna be a lot of teams that are gonna say, look at that offense he was in, get that call that quarterback, the same thing. They're going to make excuses up and down for him downfield, opportunity to watch, you know, watch every play he's will Fuller had more drops than

any of the first three rounds that year. But but are we okay with will Fuller Texas? No, that doesn't matter. He still went, I know what you're saying. I know what. He was the second receiver drafted that year, just ahead of Dockson Or and Treadwell Michael Thomas. If if dj Chart goes to the combine and oh he will he will, Well, it depends what if he runs a four three eight, I think that's kind of what you expect. If he runs in the low four threes, that's that's kind of

number that can move the needles a little. I mean he's six three and can move so, like I hear what Dayton's saying, I just think it would be a mistake. I agree, I agree, it would be a mistake. He is not a first round player, but if we were looking for a name that could surprise Hey and one of his teammates as well, Dante Jackson Jackson the corner, Speaking of mistakes, I oh, mistakes first round in the first round, the first round? Yes, yes again, Why what

is he going to run the camp? He might run get the four twos at the combine. Guys that can run that fast, had that type of speed. He's tye of the most undisciplined players. Where where was where was Trey White? Drafted twenty seven something like that? Yeah, his tape is like light years better than Oh yeah, absolutely that if you're drafting him, it's because, like I hope, it's because you want to kick returner, punt returner and not. And I'm not saying he's a bad player. Dante Jackson. Yeah,

it's not a first round player. He's not a first round player. Um, where do why I have him slotted? I think I have a who Jackson? Dante Jackson Jackson, I have a two three on him, So I agree because he's not he doesn't have first round tape. But again, he's might vote for the fastest four we at the combine. And it's not just straight line speed with like DJ Sharks more straight line speed. Jackson I think is gonna kill it in the three cone and all the agility drills.

And he's not a big guy. He's probably two I think more like five ten and a half probably closer that he's If he breaks one eighty, that's good for him. He might not freakish athlete who like more often than not as a good player, who once or twice every game or two is going to do something so undisciplined, ridiculous. He's yeah, he's the he's the tackle, his safety guy. He's like that. Oh god, that ten yard game turned into sixty yards because Dante tackled the safety. The defensive

holding on the other side of the field. That will wiped out a sack by arden Key. You know how many coaches are in the NFL. Let's say, oh no, I'll coach it out of him. Will instill some discipline in this. Those coaches are looking for jobs. How about that? Two happens every year. I'm to LSU grads sitting here just arguing why their players are not. We're hard on those kids. We're hard on I'm I'm hard. I'll say this though, Okay him. Did you like Hill from Texas? Yeah?

Like him a lot, just he's he can't hip him off the field and Holton Hill Hill, I like his tape a lot. Actually, okay, I don't know what the off field? Yeah, okay, just tell me who the better player is on tape? Like the tape? Yeah, Holton Hill or or Jackson? If Holton Hill, yeah, if I have have to win a game right now, it's Holton Hill. He's a better player, yeah for sure. But Jackson is better physical and athletic trade so could hold Holton Hill is not going to go in the first round because of

his off the field stuff. You might go in a second or third round because of that. What a good player. I mean, it's he just needs to stay cleaning Texas. By the way, folks, Dante Jackson is drafted before Tradavious White was. Hey, I could have just recycled the same names. I just brought two new names. Oh no, no, no no. That's why we got you, right, because we're gonna lose you to an NFL team next year at this time. All right, Well, when we come back, we're gonna play

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Com Draft show Cowboys on the Clock. Back here with the Draft Show from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Again, Brian brought us Dame Burglar, David Hellman, Kit Garrison. That could be producing as always, Dab. We've got about fifteen minutes left, sir, so let's play a little why or why not. Yeah. I'm interested to see where we go with this because at least a few of these guys are are hot

topic players, right, It's particularly among the Cowboys. So basically, you know one he all is going to present the argument for why and the other why not right kind of Yeah, we'll pack and judge Judy on here. All right, let's start off with h Like I said, a hot topic, guy Tremaine Edmonds, the Virginia Tech linebacker. A lot of talk about him as a pick at nineteen. Why or why not? You wont the flip? Go ahead? You tell me why we need it, why we should draft him,

and I'll tell you what. You'll tell you what. This guy could play all three positions for you. I love the fact he's six to four, he's two hundred and forty five pounds. Love the physical nature of him. I think, you know, there's a lot of things that you can do with this guy. I think you could play him in coverage. I think he can carry receivers for you. I think he can finish in space. For a tall guy, he gets in the cracks. I mean, if you blitz him and stuff like that, He's got a feel for

how to get to the football. You can use him as a blitzer. I you know, I think he's a nice joban blitz hims creating pressure with him. I think there's a lot of things that you can do with this guy scheme wise, Like how he fights through the trash, gets through the ball, like how he finishes, physical guy, toughness, all those things. I would welcome that guy in a heartbeat. For a team that needs linebackers, I would welcome him too,

for the right value. I think we've kind of been conditioned to think that he's just this top ten player, one of the top ten players in this draft. He you know, I think that's just been kind of accepted now at this point, and I think that's crazy. He's a good player, Don't get me wrong. I think everything you said is right. But why I think there's we could pull holes in him. Yeah, he has the size and the ability, but he has the length. He has no idea how to use that length. Is a take

on skills. A lot of issues there from a mental standpoint. His eye discipline, the way he breaks down what he sees. It's up and down, it runs hot and cold. He falls asleep at times in coverage you like. And he's a young guy. I mean, I think that is a part of it too. People see a young guy, they think, oh, he's gonna, you know, stole us plenty of room before he hits his football ceiling. That's a big that's a projection, and you're talking about top ten pick. So I think

he's a good player. I went with you there, but I don't think that he is this no doubt about it, top ten, top twelve player in this draft. Like a lot of people seem to think if he's a no doubt about a top ten, top twelve player or if he's not, I mean, maybe that means he's a top nineteen player. Though I would say he's a top nineteen player. Yeah, but traits are great. Yeah, there's a lot of I

think there's a lot of other questions though. Another darling of the Cowboys draft Twitter Blogga Sphere not so much in the first round, but just in general, Notre Dame wide receiver Equanimious Saint Brown, Why are we not very good athlete? This is a guy who kind of grew up being molded for this. His dad was a two time All Universe Olympia or bodybuilder whatever. Very good athlete,

very well conditioned. I think as a sophomore with a capable passing game with Deshauan Kaiser, you saw what Saint Brown could be. Had almost a thousand yards ten touchdowns this past year with Brandon Wimbush just his production fell off a cliff because they had no passing game. But this is a guy who can threaten every level of the defense. He can help you out short, intermediate, long. Once he hones his routes, which I think he'll do, it'll come in time. If we're gonna find if we're

gonna pick a Juju Smith Schuster in this draft. You know, a guy that kind of gets overlooked goes second third round. I think it's a quominious Saint Brown. It's not like you liked him there, an't you. Yeah, good for you. You know, I'll agree with him about the quarterback stuff. You know, I'll agree with him about the quarterback the play there. I just didn't really see a guy that that made enough big plays, you know. I mean, even if your quarterback's bad, make some plays for him. Yeah,

And I didn't. I didn't see that. And that that's the problem I have it again, if you know, if you know when you're talking about Juju Smith and those guys, Yeah, he had a good quarterback throwing him the football. But the guys that the guys that stand out for me, And you're right about the trades and the talent, But I didn't see a guy that always helped his quarterback out either, you know. But I that's the problem I

had with him. I think a lot of people blame the quarterback play or the lack of it, that oh, that's why he didn't. But there's some times when you watch him play where he is not the most consistent catching the football, And so I would think, where did you have him on your on your board? Second third? He was like a fourth round guy to me. He didn't make my top fifty. Yeah, but close. I don't know. I don't know if he was close, but he would have had a shot him if I did my top

seventy five. Yeah, I definitely would have been my top one hundred. I kind of feel like though that Again, I think that the people give him the crutch of the bad quarterback play, and I'd like to see him, you know, and he might turn out to be a fine receiver when it's all said and done. But I just didn't see him always helping this guy out either, as Matt end as somebody who covers the Cowboys and

spends a lot of time around the Cowboys. The phrase Dane lost the argument as soon as he said, once he hones his routes, I don't need that in my life. Yeah, yeah, I need the guy that's already got the perfect route tree, or at least to the very good one. And that's fair for most teams. And I think it just yeah, you have to look at the player and kind of

figure out can he do it? Will he get better as a route runner, because not every you know, Terrence Williams and every guy is going to get better as a route runner, and you have to try to identify that before you draft him. But I think with this guy, I think with sint Brown, I think he will. I do think that all the talent and the technical understanding is there, just needs to apply it. Tight end or excuse me, Wisconsin tight end, Brian, you always write the

position before the school address drives me crazy. Wisconsin tight end Troy Fumagali Senior Bowl guy. Yeah him, Yeah, I'll take him layers okay. With Troy Fumagalley, you know, and I think that you know, we're gonna get into a group of tight ends here that are a lot better route runners, catchers, downfield players than we are going to get blockers. You know, with the exception, maybe Ian Thomas

from Indiana. As an inline guy. I think that this group and Fumgalley, in my opinion, is kind of one of those guys that you get this guy a running start, you know, as an age or move guy. Don't match him to play in line, but move him around a little bit. This guy will secure his block, he'll get into his guy, he'll get some space, He'll he'll find a way to turn on a guy. I kind of I kind of understand who he is. He's a push shove guy, but he'll wall off seal. I don't see

his guy getting to the play a lot. I really really don't, you know. I watch him play and so I'm okay with that. I think he has to be on the move more than he has to be in line. I think he's a red zone weapon. I really really do. I think he's a guy too. With the way the Cowboys play with all the underneath routes and stuff like that, with their tight end, this guy knows how to go from one spot to the other, get across the field, get open. You can watch Wisconsin's offense. They do that

a bunch. The boots, the waggles, the things like that this guy, they throw it to him, he's in position to catch it. He can adjust low, he can adjust high. I don't have a problem at all with Troy Fumagali. I really really don't, because I think in a group, if you're looking for that middle, if you don't want to take one of those tight ends high, I think maybe third fourth round type of a guy. Though they can give you something as a move blocker, but also

the hands, the security catching the football. A lot of positive things about that. Sounds like you're describing a guy you think could be a starter. I don't have a problem with him. Yeah, I'm okay with that. I see too many physical limitations personally. I he's he realizes more on his routes to get open than any type of burst or quickness. Speed is average at best lineing. NFL linebackers are going to stick to him up and down the field as a blocker. I think he's just gonna

get overwhelmed. He saw it sometimes in Big ten play, and I think NFL linebackers, defensive lineman it's they're not going to have much trouble overwhelming him. So I like Fumigali as a guy in somewhere on day three. But again I just because he deserves credit. He the way he developed and kind of came up through that system at Wisconsin. They kind of groomed him to be that complete tight end, very reliable hands, even though he only has what nine fingers. But Fumigali is a guy that

I just I see too many physical limitations. I agree with you to a point. Maybe in the red zone as a you know, a second tight end, maybe come in and help you there. But there are eight nine better tight ends in this drafts. He's open a lot more than he's covered. If you watch the tape, yeah he watched You watched the all the balls that are thrown to him. Yeah, But that's what I'm saying, get you know Ken when he gets he's one of those

guys that knows how to get open. You know. I think there, I think there's you have to say something to that. You have to give him credit for that. This goes against the very fiber of the draft because the point is that you're always supposed to be preparing for two or three years down the line. I just as again as somebody who spends all my time around

the Cowboys. I don't even really want to touch tight end until Jason Witten's career is over, because I just feel like it's a great way to watch a resource. If you, if you my opinion, if you gave me the opportunity, if you gave me the opportunity to take Hurst from South Carolina, you know, hayden Hurst. Yeah, hayden Hurst, South Carolina. Godert, you know, I'm okay with that. I like Fumagali better than JISICKI m give me get Sicky

all day, a lot better in my opinion. Yeah, I just don't want to spend big time resources on a tight end right now. Mcgull has my number ten tight end. Who who give me the other four? Give me? Give me the top four? You got Goddard, Mark Andrews. Hey, you haven't seen Andrews yet. I'm sorry, Goddard, Hayden Hurst, Mark Andrews, Ian Thomas are my top four five of Bekasicky Durham smythe from Notre Dame, Chris Herndon Miami, Tyler Conklin,

and Dalton Schultz. Top nine. Pretty pretty solid little group, right, Yeah, not bad see that. But there are there's some, there's some, there's some depth of this class. It's it's a very good class. Yeah, it really is. How about Alabama's safety Ronnie Harrison? Why or why not? I want to go for the why not or why I'll tell you why not because we know what he is. He's a downhill thumper, a guy that loves violence, and heck, I'll love that

on my team. But I need a safety that I can control, I can trust, can control himself to go in reverse, it can handle cover responsibilities, and on tape you just don't see any consistency in that area from him. Again, I know what I'm getting as a downhill run defender. He's outstanding in that area. But this isn't nineteen ninety two and today's NFL. My strong safety needs to be able to drop a little bit and play in space,

and that's where there's some inconsistent results. So I don't Ronnie Harrison's not a guy that I would personally take in the first round, but you know, at some point the second sure, maybe, but not in the first because of those coverage limitations. Yeah, but I you know, to me, guys six almost six two two hundred and fifteen pounds or so, and I think you're right about him. I do see a guy with some quick feet. You're right

about it. I thought it'll overrun some plays. But I talked about I saw a guy who was a really good blitzer. I saw a guy that was when a very good tackler in space. You know, I think, if you're gonna have a say, how many of these safeties we oh, he looks good doing this, looks good doing that. You know, all these things we talk about, Oh he

can you know, can he tackle? Yes or no? And I'll tell you what, when he gets in position to tackle, he can get his guy to the ground and give me that guy, give me the guy that that is, you know when when you know, and I've seen him playing the slot, you know, I've seen him some things in coverage. I think there's some things that you can do with this guy. You know, is he Landing Collins? No? You know what Landing Collins was a second round player.

But what landed Collins do better than anybody else? He tackled? Yeah? Well, and Collins came a long way sure in terms of the coverage, sure, and the coverage well. The theory I'm developing the more I cover the draft is the college safety who's really great in coverage. I mean those are like the elite guys. You know, you don't see him very often. Yeah, but exactly, So if you can get me a guy I could cover and tackle if he can tackle and at least looks like he's not wearing rollerblades, Yeah,

he's in coverage. Adams kind of like that, Yeah he was. I never thought of him as a great coverage Yeah. Well and if Landon Collins, if any team thought he could do it in coverage, he would have went in the first round. Yeah, but he didn't. He fell out of the first round because teams were worried he wouldn't be able to hold up in coverage. And kudos to him because he got taken in the second round and he improved in those areas and now it looks like, you know, he should have been a top ten pick

in that drop. Absolutely. One last one, real quick Auburn guard Braden Smith. Why why not? How about the how about the why not? How about the why or which would you rather have? Go for it? You like this guy? I do like and I'm surprised that more people don't like him more because I see a guy that has

position flex guard or tackle as a guard. When he watched Auburn a lot of times the running play is going behind that right guard where Bradon Smith lined up because of his ability to control blocks at the point of attack, of her body's strength, and he's not a bad athlete, so I think there's enough traits there that I can work with um. Now, I don't think he's

better than Hernandez or Win or anything like that. But on day two, if I get if I don't, if I miss out on my guard, my Win or Hernandez, I don't think there's a huge drop off to Smith at some point on day two. I think he tends to catch as a blocker. I watched him play Georgia A and m Clemson an LSU. I think he catches as a blocker. I think he is to his feet, tend to get all over the place when you watch

him play. I think he really struggles to sustain. I think that when you he doesn't have much upper body power. When they go unbalanced, they move him to the tackle spots. So when he has to play getst opponents it's strong. I think that gives him problems, you know, And that's what I say. That's why I mentioned the opponents that I watched. Generally, he'll take his man where he wants

to go. You know this guy, you know, he's he can like get the guy wants to go that he'll just kind of wall him off and go that way. But I think he struggles in space blocking on the screen. They use him as a puller. I thought he got over extended and I didn't think he had very good balance as a pass blocker. So just that's definitely a player we don't see eye to eye. We don't. I feel like people think y'all agree on everything. The truth of the matter is not quite so much. No, but

that's in a draft room every day. If we all agree on these guys, we'd have a terrible draft. It wouldn't be this. Yeah, the show wouldn't be fun. No, one wouldn't care about the draft because we'd all agree. Yeah, well said, that's all the time we got. That's what the music means. I like that. Why or why not? I am out on Monday, So yeah, you'll find some such dud for you to find somebody to come in it. We'll get Kevin Turner to come back in and visit

me more. Draft Jeopardy More Draft, Jeffardy, all right for my scouts, Dave Burglar, David Hellman, Executive producer Kent Garrison. I'm Brian Bross. We'll see you Monday, ten am for another episode of The Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.