Draft Show: Need vs. Best Player Available

writer from Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Gentlemen, Welcome back to another week of draft talk. Kind of quiet out there right now, isn't it. It's the calm before the combine storm. Yeah, we'll get into that too. About that combine, We're gonna have five shows from the combine starting Tuesday, well so through sad Day. So excited about that. They have a new format for us there, which will be interesting, how they how they coordinate everything, just from the media perspective.

Gonna move us over in the convention center right right and so, and the schedules a little different, so we'll see how it works out. I feel like it's gonna be more accessible, less accessible, less. It's never good. Hopefully it'll be less crowded. Never thought that I would ever see the Combine on TV. By the way, when I'm sitting there in nineteen ninety two, it's such a secretive thing.

What's blown up bigger the NFL Combine or National Signing Day? Like, what's a bigger deal as opposed to think the signing day has? It's either way, it's unreal. Yeah, I think signing Day's gotten big, combines huge too. I remember I was talking with Rick Goslin recently about this from the fine writer from Dallas Morning News. He was one of eight guys that used to cover the combine. Now we have what a couple of thousands maybe, yeah, credential media.

Credential media guys like nine hundred last year. I think, oh really, may maybe I double the number. It's over a thousand this year. But it felt like it was a lot like that. Yeah, excited though excited. We'll talk about we get close to the combine. We'll talk about that today. A couple of different ways you can get a hold of us. It's at the draft show. That's

always the best way because we do. Kent Garrison, who's the executive producer of the show, puts it up on periscope, so if you're following at the Draft show, you can kind of catch what we're doing here right now. It's just a really easy way to do it. Plus you get questions to us, you know, we like to monitor that and when we do Twitter on the twenty that helps David a lot and helps Dan and I as

well to kind of get your questions answered. Shows about you know, trying to help you guys become better educated fans of the Draft. Another way is to call us at eight eight, eight, five, two, two nine seven numbers right there on the screen. So we'll take some calls today again, like to always try and interact with the fans. Want to get into a couple of different things if I could, gentleman, I think first I want to start off with, is draft need our best available player? The

myth of that? Is it something you know? I want to I want your thoughts on that because I've I've lived in a couple of different ways, but I want to I want to minister what you guys have to say about that. BPA. Yeah, it's something that at least For me, it depends on the team, depends on you know, where the that team is in terms of are they ready to win now or they are they rebuilding? Where

are they in their roster structure? That plays a part, And so it's not a blanket answer for every single team, but for the most part, it's almost always best player available, especially in the first round, especially top ten, top fifteen, top twenty. Your main goal when you have a when you don't make the playoffs and you're picking top twenty, your main goal should not be too you know, plug that that top need. It should be to help your roster with talent. I definitely want to get I totally

agree with what you're saying here. I do, and I'm going to get into that. Got Twitter on the twenty as well, Like we talked about, and then we got our last segment. It's gonna be Draft show, shopping list and Dave him and the way we're gonna play this is Dave Hellman is going to be the shopper and Dane Brugler and I are going to try and fill his basket full of players at certain positions and shopping spree. Yeah, it's a shopping spree. Shopping music queued up. Yeah, give

me the shopping network music. Whatever we got there. You have a budget to work with. It's gonna go down the aisland. Yeah, Yeah, you're gonna go down. You're gonna go down the aisland. You're gonna You're gonna ask us some specific rounds questions players kind of Andre and Dane and I are going to try and to fill up your basket for you. So that's what we got going today. And I want to and then so I want to

start it with what Dane was exactly talking about. I'm gonna read a statement to you here and see if you guys agree at this at all. The smartest NFL general managers opt for best available player overneed, at least in the draft's first three rounds. This leads to a leads to an overall higher level of talent of the for the roster. Teams like Seattle, you know often mentions

having deep rosters employed this draft philosophy. I can live with that philosophy because the guy who's the general manager Seattle, John Snyder, was in Green Bay. Another guy you could talk about back in the day that used to do this and now does it at Washington. Scott mccluan, and he was when he was at San Francisco. We always thought about San Francisco having a very deep and talented roster. What are your thoughts on that first three rounds? I

think that makes sense. And I think for something something people need to remember is that draft boards on for NFL teams they're not three hundred deep, you know, and they don't They're not going to all look the same. And so if a player or if a team takes a certain player in the second round that maybe we all thought would be a fourth round pick. I'm sorry, the diamonds on your ring, it just blinding me right now.

Just world champion, Yeah, and brought us dievery. I just remind myself at one time in my life I was a winner. Yeah, flashing that around. No, I'm sorry, I just I just wore it today. My bad. But no, I think, uh, you know, so if a team has one hundred and fifty hundred and eighty names on a draft board, you know it's gonna look drastically different when they take player a who in the second round, who we thought maybe as a fourth round pick, but on

their board, that was the best available player. And I think it's true that a lot of the most successful teams they don't reach for need um. You know, Quarterbacks a little different, you know, I don't think you can necessarily rank quarterbacks on your overall big board, just because it's a little bit of a different animal. But value is a factor too, And if you really like a player,

you have to factor in what's his value. If you want him, you have to get him, you know here, And if you really like Christian McCaffrey, you might have to and you have an early second round pick, you might have to trade up into the back end of round one, So value you need, it's all part of the same equation. But I don't know how how do you feel about it? I kind of I like that though. I like what you're saying, and I think that and that's why I like where you talk about the first

three rounds. But there's other there's other means. Go ahead, David, I'll let you have your say it is. I'll yeah, let me be real for a second, because I feel somewhat strongly about this, which it's a great philosophy and it should be the philosophy that all NFL teams abide by. But I think that's a lot of lip service in a lot of cases, because at the end of the day, you're a bad draft or a bad season away from everybody losing their job. And I don't think that's true.

I don't think you can separate that fact a good point. And so you look, you go back and you mentioned John Schneider, you mentioned the Seattle Seahawks. There's there's maybe like five or six teams in the NFL that I think you can truly count on to follow that strategy year in and year out. And it's not a coincidence that they're all highly successful teams, playoff teams, playoff teams, championship teams. The Patriots do it, the Packers do it, the Seahawks do it. Who else I'll go, But I mean,

I'll tell you something happened. Cowboys are starting to do it. I mean you can sort of you can give them credit, especially at the top of the draft. You can give them credit. You think about obviously their first round picks, but even picks like a Chaz Green maybe not necessarily a guy that you needed, but you know, sitting there at ninety two. So I think they can get some credit for that. But I think at the end of the day, I mean, why do and Dane's right quarterbacks

a little bit different? But why do Blaine Gabberts and Christian Ponders and EJ. Manuals go where they go. It's because at the end of the day, you can't separate the fact that you got to you gotta do something to get wins. And I think eventually that permeates everybody's draft strategy eventually, except for maybe Bill Belichick because he's about the only guy in the league that's got unassailable

job security. Yeah, and they talk about Belichick. In twenty thirteen, everybody was yelling at New England had to fix their defensive line and running back problems. Rounds two three, they didn't have a first round pick. They saw him take defensive back and wide receiver. Why because Belichick wanted Jamie Collins, Aaron Dobson, and Logan Ryan the players, not the position

they played. There's something to that. You still got the Cowboys twenty fourteen, everybody said Jerry Jones was nuts for cutting some of his more expensive defensive pieces and leaving a shell of a unit to take the field. The first round pick of that draft was guard Zach Martin, three time pro bowler. You know, yeah, you know, so what it looks like he was leaving completely his defense to be an apt you know, he picked the right guy.

You could argue that in his defense is still somewhat unapped though, Yeah, maybe he needs to pick maybe he needs to But how about this one. How about on the opposite end, how about what Tom Demittroff did to

go get Julio Jones. Yeah, which is is that considered best available players, that considered going and getting a need and see that's and that's that's a great you know kind of I mean, if you see me, I have a chance to get Julio Jones, right but and seeing that that helps I would argue now, right now, but what about the you know how many years it took them to get to this level with the draft picks that they lost to get Julio Jones, that they couldn't

build help build the roster, you know. So it's it's a double edged sword, yes to this point. I mean, Julio Jones obviously is arguably the top receiver in the game, and he helps change your offense. But there's a reason the Falcons haven't won since, not until really until this year in terms of making it advancing as far as they did. And a big part of that is losing the draft picks that they had to lose to get Julio Jones, losing depth on that team. And so it's

something that is a double edged sword. And we could debate whether or not that was the right move or whether or not you know, that's something that team should really should really do. That's a big gamble. And to you, I mean, I know he's your buddy, no disrespect. You can say whatever you want. While the Falcons were waiting to reach that level of success, Thomas Dimitrov lost some

of his standing in the organization. Absolutely took a demotion. Absolutely, So I mean, you know, you can repaint and you can use your revisionist history all you want, but it's not like it was this steady building block toward a super You asked that trade you as Dan Quinn, he probably says, absolutely is the right move. You asked Mike Smith, who was the head coach, He probably says, I didn't

like that so much. See if you agree with this, when you draft with when you draft thinking about need based, you will always pass up more talented players in the name of short term fixes. I mean yeah, in in in general when you're drafting for me, and I think that's true. And that's that goes back to my point is you know, you draft a quarterback that I think objectively everybody would agree has no business going where he goes.

But that's such an important position that if it were out it's people will tell you it's worth their risk. But in most circumstances, you know, those guys that those first round quarterback picks that go outside, you know, they're not slam dunk guys like it very rarely works out the way that people want it to when you drafted an ej. Manuel sixteenth overall, But in some sense you almost have to do it because that's the best way

to save your chop status going forward. As if you hit on a pick like that, and it's I'm gonna play Devil's advocate here, because if a team is let's say they feel they're a position away from really advancing to that next level, and they're looking at say they're picking number fifteen overall, and a guy that they have ranked as the twenty twenty fifth best player is at the position of need, but they'd also be passing on five, six,

seven guys they have ranked ahead of him. Sure, but they ranked that guy at twenty five as a starter, a guy that it can be a reliable guy for your team. Do you do you pass on some of the better talent to go get that need at that one position you feel is going to take you to the top, Because listen, your car could have some engine trouble and you could buy a flashy new CD player.

It's not gonna make a difference. Noah, this is I'm glad you said this thing because we can tie this end really well, because there is a sizeable subsect of the Cowboys fan base that feels the Cowboys are a good like a genuinely good pass rusher away from being a Super Bowl contender. Yeah, twenty eight. It's all the questions I ever get on Twitter. It's about It's about defensive end. Tell me that everybody's everybody's concerned if there's going to be a legitimate defensive end for them at

twenty eight. Sure, and so it's not about the other It's not about the other positions. Nobody wants to hear about the tight end. Nobody really wants to hear about the wide receiver, even cornerback. Most people even yeah, even the cornerback. But sitting at twenty eight and this, like I said, this ties into what we're talking about. Is it worth it to I mean, maybe not do whatever you have to do, but make a bold move to get higher up in the draft and get one of

these guys. Seems like people remember what happened with Mo Claiborne. That's very fresh in their mind of giving up. You know, they send they talk about the Seattle linebacker, the you know, the middle linebacker, Wagner. Yeah, that they could have had. Yeah, you know, everybody, everybody you know. And when it when it works, it's great. When it doesn't work, it's like, why did you do that? Why did you? You know?

And this is this is the point Number two. Your missus are magnified as you focus on so narrow from positions one to three that you ignore other players with star potential. That's what Dane was talking about. And I think, and justin as a general statement, I think it's a mistake to ever think you're one player away from anything. It's not the way football works. I mean, you know, Dak Prescott could fumble the snap on the crucial play and you you had a great pass rush, but you

still lost the game. I mean, that's not that's not the way football works. To think that that is going to cement your status as a super Bowl team or what happens if Doz goes down? Sure, I mean you know who's dack throwing too? Yeah, I would wag rather. And that's I don't like trading away picks again as a general statement, because I like to have you know,

it's like a shotgun, you just scatter shot. He has many chances the wide pattern give me as many chances to hit on something as I can, instead of focusing on one guy and putting all the pressure on him to be the guy. We've seen this team have a bunch of picks in draft poorly though, twelve picks one year, when the two thousand and nine yeah the way okay, But Philip's administration, and this is a different administration that I think deserves the benefit of the doubt. I mean

just because some different people, Oh sure that. Oh no, we Hey I jacked up a draft or two here. Yeah, I mean I was part of a staff. It wasn't very good. Hey, we set this team back. I mean, Parcels came in and picked up the pieces, and you know, and when we got in the playoffs with the guys we had. But still, you can't mess up the draft, and if you do it two or three years in

a row, you deserve to get fired. Listening to Belichick just after the Super Bowl win, he's talking about how they're already five weeks behind, weeks behind, and he talks about how you know, the All Star Games are over and you know they so they feel behind, and if you don't do a good enough job in January, February, March, April, then that's you're gonna be able to tell late in the year. And so that's something that will carry over

and be able to translate. So just the fact that you know what Belichick, the way he views the offseason and how important it is the scouting, the evaluation, that tells you everything you need to know about why the Patriots are perennial winners. It's ironic because he just finished winning a Super Bowl without the benefit of a first round pick to bolster his roster. But I mean his point is well made. To quote right Garrett Well, and you know it's their ability to find the Malcolm Butlers

and the Jackian Edelman's. Yeah, you know, it's I think a lot of Tom Brady luck into that. I mean so many people folk was on the first round, maybe the second round, but the full draft is what matters. To be able to evaluate and find these guys, to find the Anthony Browns, uh, you know, to find these guys that are gonna be Day three picks. You know that that certain quarterback named mister Prescott, You know guys that you know, whether you want to call it luck

or not, the evaluation process is being done now. He was on a board. Yeah exactly. Somebody sat down and evaluated that player, right, and so if it's some leg work that went into that, a lot of leg world. Absolutely, And so if it ends up being the pick and it ends up panning out, well then you have to point to the work that was done right now as to why that worked. Yeah. I don't like to say, I think to me, you know the draft, I mean,

you just don't know. Hey, you know they always say, you know, they always come on the these our programs when we're sitting here on draft day and they always say Day three is the day of the scouts. It's scouts day, Nerds day. Yeah, it's the day that you know, but you know, to be honest with you, the whole draft is the scouts day. The hardest the hardest thing is building the board. The easiest thing is drafting the players. If you've done the board right, that's the that's the

that's the real that's the grind. For me, if I was if I was sitting in a war, right, to me, the board was more important where we had the guys. I would say about don't window dress and stuff like that, but that the grind of putting the board together. The drafting was easy if you did it right. That's I say. Again, I'm not gonna sit here, and I mean so much, so much luck went into the Dak Prescott situation and I would never know some preparation, but no, and then

that's what I'm gonna say. I mean, one guy loved Tom Brady. Sure, and you have to you have to get lucky in a situation like that. We know the Cowboys made a run at two or three other quarterbacks. It's not like they were fixated on no, absolutely, but how much work did they spend on the quarterback position? All through the spring. How much time did we spend talking about all the different things? I mean, yeah, I

mean they were ready. They were ready, and when you know, they tried a couple of things, it didn't work out, and then they felt fine pulling the trigger on Dack. Obviously it worked above and beyond all expectations. But that's that's why you do the work right. Absolutely. Last point here is by doing this is the once again we're talking about need based stuff or best available player. You

limit your trade options and you limit your flexibility. When you start thinking about honing in on need, you limit Maybe somebody wants to offer you something, but you're so focused on we've got to get this guy, and it limits where you can move in the draft or what you can do. The only and I think that's true, and the only I mean it has it would have

to be for a slam dunk quarterback. I think for anybody to feel justified and fixating like that, you know, I get, for instance, the Eagles with wins or the Rams with God for that matter. I mean, if you're really confident that you're making a franchise altering decision, then I can see it. But otherwise as a spect I mean for a pass rusher when you're situated at the back end of the first round. I just don't think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, it's the whole

trade discussions. It's tough because there's a lot that goes into it. You know, what are you being offered, how far back are you moving? And if you're going to trade up, you know, what are you giving up? What kind of assets are you going to put towards that? So the whole trade conversation is something that I don't know. It depends on the details of the trade and the positioning where you are, what you're looking to get, what's your goal? You know, what's your board? Are your who's

available before you at twenty eight? Is it similar to who's going to be available before you at the same player? Yeah, you know, and so all that factors in. But I think the overall point is valid. Yeah, I do too. It's always a fascinating thing to listen to teams talk about need over best available player. Okay, we're gonna take our first break when we come back. We need you to light this thing up at the draft show. If you've got some questions, make sure you fire them here

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on today. Yeah, they gave me a promotional pair of their undis and I everything you just said is true, Like it's so comfortably not have to worry about him. Weggie Partnery that stuff like that. You're just doing the Draft show, feeling good, focus on our work, Just do my job. You know, it's great. Thank you, Tommy John. Yeah, Tommy John's good stuff. I can say the socks are really comfortable. I'm like, you know, I'm big sock guy. Yeah, like my feet, the wedgy part and stuff like that.

I understand that. Yeah, you stick it right up your right. Well done, Ken Garrison Garrison knowing exactly what dropped a play. All right, it's time for one of my favorite things. Thank you ed Ka Hill for coming up with this such a long time ago. It is Twitter on the Twitter League. We're gonna get after it, get after it. Here we go. I'm gonna put you on the spot right away. And maybe this is better for the combine or afterward, but Jay wants to he wants a better

idea because we've kind of hinted at it. A lot of people have Tim Williams and his baggage. What's going on here, He's got a lot of it, and you know, I think that's the combine will be important for him during the interview process. And he didn't go to the Senior Bowl. He decided not to, so he didn't get a chance to meet with teams there. So when he gets a chance to sit down during you know, the

speed dating, that is the combine interviews. It's there's not gonna be a hey, how you doing kind of thing. It's gonna be hey, why are you in the doghouse so much? Yeah? Why? You know? Why did you know coach Saban take you off the field? Why? Uh? You know? It was this off field incident about you know what about these rumors? Is this something that we have to worry about? And there's gonna be a lot thrown at him,

and he needs to be ready for it. He needs to be ready with the right answers, and he has to be convincing because he has, in my opinion, top ten, top fifteen talent, no doubt about that. Next to Miles Garrett, he's my next best draft, next best rusher. He's so fast and so fun to watch, is he? It sounds like we're talking about another Randy Gregory? I mean, is it on that level? I think it's actually I don't think we know yet. Yeah, but I was told the more you dig, the more you find, the more you

get scared. Right, absolutely. But you know, if he interviews, well, yeah, maybe he can convince. All it takes is one team. So oh yeah, I don't think we really have a good idea yet of how serious? I mean, we know it's serious, but just how serious? Could it drop him out of the first round? Could it drop him out of you know, the top fifty? How far will this knock him down? Right now? In my mock draft, I have him going to number thirty two and the Patriots

picking up a pretty good player. So you go, rich get richer there, you go get a rusher. Shameless plug for Day, by the way, what his mock draft saying that that way the relationship between Saban and Belichick, don't discount that right at all, don't. I mean, that is one of those he will have the folder on this kid. Yeah, the coach Garrett here, you know, I'll have the folder too. Yeah,

they will too. But I think that that was one of the things I wrote about in my reasoning for that pick is Belichick will have all the information needed for that pick. Strong GM strong coach. When you look for bridge over troubled water guys, that's where these guys end up, and they usually they work out for these teams. Shameless plug for Dane's CBS Sports mock draft, which we just mentioned, Drever says, I saw that Dane mocked Carl Lawson, the Auburn pass rusher to Dallas. What's his fit? Is

he left end? I think he's a right end. I think he's you know, Brandon Graham with the Eagles, that type of rusher. A guy who might not be the most physically explosive player, but the way he uses his lower body, he uses his upper body, his relentless nature, the way he can break down the rhythm of blockers, I think you have a very good player here. Yeah. I don't disagree at all. I'm a matter of fact that it seems to be that everybody has kind of

got tack. And then they've got Harris mentioned in there from Missouri, and then by the way, hearing some whispers that Harris is a Rod Marinelli kind of guy. Oh yeah, explain that a little bit well at the quick twitch stuff and all that, you know, at that first first, Yeah, the great thing about being here at the Stars you get to kind of be at lunch with people and stuff like that. So that they said keep an eye on that at Harris guy. He is an early mock

draft darling to the Cowboys. And that's where and it might be too these Missouri guys have found a way to come in the league and play. Yeah, you know, and so, but just keep an eye on that one. I'm just again, that's that's having lunch with some guys and stuff like that and really seeing. But yeah, I think I agree with Dane. And I'm just looking through my notes right now because this guy plays at two

point stance, he puts his hand on the ground. I saw a guy that can hold the point of attack, strong with his hands, quick to get out so you can finish. You know, those are the things breakdown blockers with his movement. You know, I didn't. I didn't see a guy got knocked back hard to stop on the inside charge. He's I mean, there's physically physically an impressive player. His dad is like a physical trainer. So as a senior in high school, yeah, he looked like an NFL

player physically developed. That's why you bring Dane on the show. He knows stuff like oh no, he knows a lot of stuff, and I think the combine will be big for loss. And just with the medicals. He missed almost all of two fourteen, or all of two and fourteen with an ACL right then almost all of twenty fifteen with a cracked hip, So what the medicals come back

at the combine would be important? And see yeah, and also they can I saw where they kicked him down inside and played some some nickel tackle three techniques, soaps what I like to hear. Yeah, that's that's one of those things when again you're talking about Marinelli and those guys, they look for the guy that could play in the rotation. How many different spots can you play? Can you play left right, which we're trying to determine, and can you

play some nickel tackle? Those are all positive things, preferably All yeah, all right, this one's fun. I want to kind of put y'all on the spot. Johnny wants to know. He said, are there any Travis Frederick like prospects? And I take that to mean, you know, a guy that's really not getting a lot of love as the top of the draft guy, but not only might he go there but actually be really good? Anybody that kind of fits that description? Well brought us What about that UCLA

corner baby and Moreau? Yeah you like him quite a bit. Yeah, I do like Fabing Moreau. And I'll tell you why. To me, he's in that mix and I and I even I even kind of compared him to another Pack twelve corner with Sidney Jones. I was trying to think of where I was gonna put Fabian Moreau. He's he's a guy UCLA corner that he's a yep. Receivers have a hard time getting away from him, they really do. And and when you play, when he plays off coverage,

he's a he's a football intelligence. You could tell he knows how to play zone. He could drive, he can he defends the ball, he can high point ball. I was very, very surprised because I've got to him kind of late in this process, because of Lattimore, Tabor, White, Jones, Tankers, Lee Jackson, Humphrey. You know, there's a lot of corner I just named a ton of corners. A lot of them can play. This kid right here though. He's borderline

first round ability, and I would not be surprised. Four four three speed h a tick under six feet in two h five. But you watch him play, he's pretty damn good. So yeah, that would be a maybe nobody's really talking about. But all of a sudden, you know, you look up at the end of it, we get close to this draft, they're talking about him as a first round guy. I think I think you mentioned about

what we've talked about Riddick, you know that. Yeah, you're the first one to mention a WHOA wait a minute? Is it a couple of draft shows ago, maybe even at the Senior Bowl teams are going to talk about him as a first round guy. Oh, he is a first round and that and that's where Yeah, that's what I'm thinking right now. It started off as who's this guy? So now it's like, WHOA wait a minute, Okay, where

in the first round is he gonna go? He's this year's high fast riser, you know, I mean, yeah, just coming out of nowhere to and to some degree, I feel like Carson Wentz did that. I mean, we were talking about him as an end of first round guy when the process first started, and then obviously he goes too overall by the time it's all said, I'll give you another guy real quick about can Cunning him from Vanderbilt. I said last week he was one of my top five.

You said he was top five from everyone you've watched for me, absolutely praise. I mean I this call me crazy, which everybody will out there feel free. Brian brought us. You can do that. But I'll tell you what. Watch the Cunningham kid play at Vanderbilt outside lineback, but he plays inside linebacker. You can play mouth. He never comes off the field. And if you want to watch, if you only have time to watch one game, watch Georgia, Georgia.

You watched the Georgia game, you'll say, Brian brought us. You're a damn good scout. Make sure you watch it into the final play. Yeah, exactly. I mean this is a guy that makes stops, big stops, and he's always on the field. It's a great segue to a question from Thomas. I feel like we've kind of ignored it. Um, linebacker twenty eight? Where where's this guy fitting? Where's Cunningham fitting? Where?

What about? I think he goes a lot earlier than twenty eight myself, I've got him, got him at one two, You got me two, I've got him my one eighteenth. Overall around there, I think he fits somewhere in the back half a round one. I think he could be there. I think it's it's possible. Um. But talking about Reddick, Yeah, you like Reddick better than Cunningham. Um, they're so close for me. They're very close, I see, because Reddick can rush. You could put Reddick's fan in the dirt and go.

I have seen the thing with Reddick is I had. I was high on him, by the way, real quick. Reddick Temple is who we're talking about here, people. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was high on him before the Senior Bowl. Um, but not as high as I needed to be, just because he was a projection. Right go to the Senior Bowl. We see him play off the ball, play in space, had a little bit of a few hiccups, but his athleticism he can just he can make up for so much. Yeah, and so I think that Reddick is going to be

a chaisier type of prospect. Good name that was at fourteen, I believe or fourteen Yeah exactly. So I think Reddick is going to be somewhere in that top twenty five. And if he would fall to twenty eight, that'd be a tough guy to pass on. There you go. Friend of the show from blogging the Boys landing, he wants to land. He wants to know which position group talking about depth here, which position group could you wait the longest to draft and still get a quality player? Corner receiver. Yeah,

I love this cornerback class for whatever. It's great, it's awesome. I just you know you're talking about guys you can I mean, I could go down into sing to the third round, fourth round you can get if you can get in the Witherspoon kid from Colorado, you can get him in the fourth round. Yeah all day. Yeah. Um, but wide receiver, I think that's I need to watch him. You you you tweeted that out about Witherspoon, the kid from Colorado. I need to I need to see that one.

That might be another Pac twelve corner. I have to look at he's he's pretty good. Um, but corner or receipt? What do you think do you think that those two positions or is it the defensive ends? You can make it. You could make an argument for pass rusher U wide receiver makes sense. I think a lot of these wide receivers getting get pushed into the third, fourth round that might go a little bit higher. Guys like right Carlos Henderson,

law tech player. Though you know he's a guy that on tape might be a second or third rounder who might be able to get in a third or fourth Yeah. So you know, I think the wide receiver position. It makes a lot of sense tight end. It's a deep group, but I think those guys might come off the board quickly in the second or third round. I'm not sure you could wait till the fourth and still get your guy. It depends on who you like. You know, like a Jordan Leggett. I think he could be available. God, I

wish he played better as how big he is. I said this before he gets down the but you know he doesn't always play big as a blocker. Oh No, I don't think he's I think he's a blow average blocker, and I don't I really don't see him getting much better. I just I don't know. I'm not a believer in Jordan Legott as much as other people are. I'm with you on this. By the way, how much more time we got? How about one more question? Okay, then I'm gonna I'm gonna do the professional thing. DC Nation. Yeah.

I don't like it when they don't have their name. It feels cheap, but it's okay. Um, we didn't see D. D. Westbrook at the Senior Bowls, right. Disappointing obviously, but just kind of your thoughts on him. Range he's got some baggage too. Um, a couple of rest I think we need to go to Oklahoma's pro day, by the way, Yeah, and we might, especially with Joe Mixon not being at. Let's let's go, let's go to Let's go, let's make it.

Norman Trick, get on up to Norman, Dana watch, We're gonna watch a little pro day up there, because there's there's gonna be about. I think everybody will be there. I think all thirty two will probably be there for this group. I think, good bet. Yeah. But with Westbrook, he's got he's got his own baggage and stuff that A lot of questions about eager to see his official weigh ins one seventy five right now? Right does he

break one eighty? Yeah, he's the question, right. Um, I think probably nine will probably be one seventy five to one eighty range. Uh, expecting the run off forty three. I mean he can fly. He's that type of athlete, so you know, expecting to run really well on tape. He can take the top of the defense you look at it, and of course on the big twelve and that offense and uh, you know that factors in. But he had twelve touchdowns this year of at least forty yards. Yeah,

that's an unbelievable number. So Shepherd from the Giants is a better player, right, better overall player, better route runner. But Westbrook is a better home run hitter, right. And we saw what will Fuller how high he went in the draft last He's not a singles and doubles hitter. He's a home run hitter. And that's the same thing with Westbrook. He's a home run guy who even if you're not going to go deep to him, he at least stretches out that secondary and opens up underneath holes

for other guys. So Westbrook there's a lot of value there. But again he has his baggage. How much is he gonna weigh? I mean can It's a guy you can even trust going over the middle because if he gets popped you have to worry about he's gonna be a hold up physically. So the combined to be pretty important for d D. Westbrook, not just what are you gonna run in the fort yard dash, but the interviews and then you know the h what he measures in at

and then the medicals. So second round player, I mean, yeah, I know I had him right in the mix. So there, you know, because I saw the Penn State kid Godwin, Yeah, and I kind of liked him, and I like Cooper Cup from Eastern Washington. I mean, these are like second round kind of guys. To me. What should think about Ford from Virginia Tech. I was just about to mention him because I think that second round is kind of

crowded right now. It's it's those names right Ard to stack them like, you know, Forard, Virginia Tech, Cooper Cup, Eastern Washington, Godwin, Penn State, Westbrook, potentially Oklahoma. I've got another one in there, Chad Hanson from cal Okay. That's what I need to watch. Yeah, I think those guys in that second cow keeps pumping out these quality receivers, man,

yeah do and this guy he can run. Um. So I the second round how you stacked them, I'm not sure yet how, but right now I leaned towards Westbrook and then Ford at the top. I think westbrookie have your home run hitter. Ford you have, you know, the very reliable target. But and then Cooper Cup after that. But I mean we're talking about very good receivers here. I listed it as Ford Cup Godwin in Westbrook, and I did. The reason I put Westbrook for is because

of all the questions. Yeah, maybe we take that trip up to Norman and take a look at these guys, will figure this investigating educate absolutely. Okay, one last quick one just uh okay from well from friend of the show and Dallas Morning News writer John Mashoda, who hello John State. Also the most avid Florida States he is. And by the way, good luck Duke basketball tonight against North Carolina. He just wanted to know why is Dalvin Cook so much better than Leonard Fournette. So oh he's

he's hammering. He's the Florida State guy hammering to LSU. Guys, have enough time. We'll see about that. See about that. I take complete back. Well one que One thing that Nita mention is fumbles. I release my the fumble rates. I do this every year where I tracked down every single fumble every single top thirty running backs in his class. I tracked down every single fumble their entire career and you know, figure out their fumble rate based on offensive touches.

And Dalvin Cook had one of the worst fumble rates this year. Fumbling one set. I love the player too. Let me find it um or complete guy. Though I like as a runner, I like Cook. I like Cook. I think you have to I think I think that Fournette has to have a little bit of some space to get going. I don't see a creator that Cook's the creator's mixing. Look Oklahoma with Cook. There are three main issues. The fumbling, which he fumbled once every sixty

three offensive touches. So if he is touching the ball you know, twenty times a game. That's a fumble every three games. Not what you want to see. Oh that's not from a guy that you're going to be relying on to be a big play threat. So first it's the ball security. Number two is pass protection. He's willing, but he'll go. I think he's better than you're giving you credit for. I have seen. I will show you. I can show you five clips right now where he

just gets bowled over. Now, I could show you five clips where you stoning guys. Okay, but all it takes is five times, and that that you know Freeman missed a big pick up in that game. The other day they got the guys high tower. So yeah, he's willing. I just I think he's limited in that area because's two hundred and fifteen pounds as another bas strength that you want. Are you talking about You're about for Nett? Are you talk about No, No, I'm sorry, I'm talking

about Cook. Cook. Okay, carry on. It's like, all right, yeah, but I got Fournette. I'm much more comfortable with and pass bro What Yeah, dude, Fournette. I'm much more comfortable with him and past Row than I am. Cook. You disagree with that, I do. I think people people just look for for stuff about Fournette like I mean, I'm not and I'm not even arguing that Cook is a better all around back looking for I'm looking for things

to people act like Fournette. Literally all he can do is run the ball like he's not a He doesn't. He didn't catch a lot of passes in college, but he can and he's not a bad blocker. He might not be the best, he wasn't given a lot of opportunities, but there's times where he sits in there and doesn't hit anybody. I mean, he's looking looking, not hitting anybody. I'm serious. I've seen him and I'm not busting him

because he's an ol shoe guy. His build and what I've seen him do it, I feel a lot more comfortable that he'll get better in that area than I do Dalvin Cook, who's two hundred and ten, two hundred and fifteen pounds, and even though he's willing, he's just gonna get bowled over by a lot of these NFL rushers. It's just it's it's physics. I know we're off the rail a little bit here, but I just I keep noticing this trend where one of these guys buying you

Lynch today, you jerk. One of these guys is going super high in a mock and then the other guy falls. Yeah, and some people like for not better than Cook? What end? But like it seems like a trend where one guy goes top ten and the other guy waits till like twenty five. Is that realistic? Well? My final thing on Cook, and this kind of goes to what you're saying is the shoulder issues. And this is something that I could

bad I agree with. I would not be shocked if Dalvin Cook we fast forward to April and he's a second round pick. Wouldn't be shocked at all because of the shoulder issues. All Right, a guy he's not a hammer, you know, that's just not his his build, that's not what he's meant to do. And with set surgeries in his background, I can't get you to take mixing. I'm not gonna ground you, maniac. No, No, not that early. But there is a point where I would I would

take him. Yeah, we don't have to get in that discussion. Yeah, I would take you pretty much. I appreciate you. I got you, Florida State guy. I don't know what the hell Danes talking about here. Look, he's my top back. Okay, it sounds like me and this Joe boast a thing. Yeah. You guys are just looking for warts at this point. That's doing Yeah, just yeah, you're trying to get these guys right. Okay, Hey, thanks to everybody out there. Okay, we'll take our final break. We come back. We're gonna

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So no matter where life finds you today or in years to come, trust that we'll be there to care for you. To find a physician, visit Baylor, Scott and White dot com. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft. Showboys back here from the SWBC Morgan Studios. Brian brought us, Dane Brugler, David Hellman, Can't Garrison, Executive producer. Let's we've got the last part of the show here. I want to get into this. I want to give this as

much time as possible. David Hellman is going to have a shopping cart and he's gonna push it through the aisles, and we're gonna figure out to try and fill that basket of players we're trying to I'm trying to find us some championship players here, so I need you all to be succinct. We kind of went off the rails a little bit. I need this to be rapid fire. I need the answers. I need players. Let's see ip in grun on these guys or not, we'll go for it.

I want a physical cornerback, and I didn't get one in the first round. I want him in the second round. Find me somebody. Tankersley. Yeah, that's the first one that came in my mind too. A press man guy who if you're gonna run a lot of zone, good luck. But if you're gonna ask a guy to get up in the wide receiver's face and connect himself and just stay attached to that receiver, get the route off balanced Tankersleezer guy. Tankers that's from Clemson. By cornerback. Yeah all right,

and now I'm going the opposite way. I actually got my corner in the first I need the best pass rusher that's still there in the sixties into the second round. Best guy you like m second round guys. I don't know if Harris stretches. I don't know Williams. I mean, Williams would be a Williams would be the best one. But man, are we gonna go through that again what we did with Randy Gregory. Nope, We're not. I don't think so. I mean, let's just say, for the argument's sake,

Williams goes top fifty. Yeah. Um for me, Rivers, maybe he's in the conversation. Rivers would be a Youngstown We gotta say these places. He's folks Youngstown stage. Yeah yeah. Terrell Bash yeah, Terrell, bash him from all bash him from Ohio would be a guy too. I like I like that fit that. I do too, and I have him over Rivers, by the way, I've got a solid two on bash him. Yeah. I think he could be available in the late second I think he would fit as a right end in this scheme. I like that.

I like that fit in the bottom of the second round. Bash, what about where do you see Charlton? Is he gonna be a early Is he gonna be at early? He's the first round first round guy. I didn't know if I didn't know if people saw him war as a left end. I think he's a left end. I think he's Justin Tuck. I think he's that type of player. I think he can grow into that type of player. It reminds me a lot of Justin Tuck when I saw him out a notre name. So I think Tuck

will get better. He's only a one year starter, so I think he has a lot of room to grow. He played injured a lot this year, so I just don't see he might not be available at twenty eight. Yeah, follow me on this. I feel way better about finding a really good quality cornerback in the second round than I do a pass rusher. True or false, I'd say true true. I think because he's I think teams will prioritize pass rush, so we'll see a lot more of the edge rushers come off the board in the top fifty,

where not that corner is any less valued. But there's so many of these dudes. Yeah, I mean this corner class, you can go a dozen deep and still feel comfortable with the guy you're gonna get in the second round. Would we have to would you have to think about maybe taking the Villanova kid in the second round there, because you might have to hit it around early. You keep saying that if you want a guy, you probably

have to go early. Do we have to think about I mean, I know we're gonna have to probably think about that. That's way too rich for me. Okay, there's no chance I can't talk you into that when at all. Okay, carry on. I'm tired of hearing about Howard and Joku and Butt. I waited until day three to find a tight end, but the Cowboys still need one. Go she in? Who she in? Oh? Ashley, So you're thinking about thirt mean you're thinking about I have him. I have him,

like it is really a fourth round guy. But I'm thinking that you have to go a little bit. There's your blocker, big guy catcher. Yeah, Division two. I mean it's it's a What do you think? What about Gerald Everett from South Alabama? I think he could fall that far. Yeah, but he's a little bit smaller guy, right. What was his miserables too? He came in an under size by two twenty seven yea saying that during the year he was playing up towards two forty. So I mean, I

think I liked it. I like the athlete though, oh yeah, he's gonna test really well at to combine another guy I really like who is probably gonna be there at the end of the third John U. Smith, Florida International tight End. I would take between the two. You take this, you take Smith, I'd lean Everett, lean Everett, and then Smith I have him. I have a solid three on Everett and the three to four on Smith. Okay, then a four on our Ashland tight end. I kind of

like the Ashland guy. So this tape is good, but he's face and dentists, so hey, you know what that's okay? It is? Hey, well, hey, we gotta figure this out. He's is the two hundred and seventy five pounds and he's gonna run well, and he's gonna run really and he catches the ball and he's and he will block. I was honestly thinking, like, this kid from Ohio is probably not a big enough school for Will McClay to

one him. Let alone something no no, no, no no, let me let me remind you what Will McClay and I asked him this question because people on Twitter were critical of Will McClay small school guys play. Will McClay looked at me and says, hey, I took a player and put a player on this roster from London that had no college experience. So I'll due respect to Will,

but he didn't spend a draft pick on that guy. No, no, but he said, hey this he goes, it's about players, it's about players, But he goes, I will remind you that I did put a kid on this froster that had no college experience and was from London and no offense. Because I love London. We all love London. But he did remind me of that. Can he play? That's the question now always that's um, let's play the Laramie Tunsil game m offensive tackle, first round twenty eight? Is that

even feasible? If let's say that's is it possible that that could be the BPA When you get to twenty eight? Is there a guy you like in that range, kind of like the kid that went to Seattle last year? If they yeah, fitty see, I think these tackles because it is. I don't think it's any question the weak is class or position this year in this class, So I think these tackles are gonna get pushed up. So I find it hard to believe that the best flowers, Yeah,

like the flowers went to the Times. We're talking about Cam Robins, Yeah, Garrett Bowls from Utah. Yeah, Ryan Ramsick, that was ms me. He's the top guy. He's got some medical stuff needs to work out. But I think because it is such a weak position and all three two teams need tackle depth, so I think these guys you can get pushed up. I find it hard to believe that the best player available would be a tackle.

And even if there was that situation where you know, say Ramsick, some teams maybe aren't comfortable with the medicals, Cowboys are he's available at twenty eight, I still not. I'm not pulling the trigger on do you think there's a better corner or a better defensive end potentially? Right? And see this this goes back to our original conversation about best player available. Need. We've invested so much on the offensive line, and to me, I'm I'm putting those

assets into another another position. That's just me. That's my that's the way I look at the situation. That to me, the Wisconsin cute chick, he's he he's to me a bottom of the first round guy. I mean, and he left to those Wisconsin for some reason. He's Wisconsin offensive lineman. Well, and this guy's fascinating because he was a Division three player and he transferred to Wisconsin red shirt last year. He's been a bunch of places and so he just

one year starter. Yeah, he was impressive. He was very impressive. Tape. Yeah, his tape is very good. I think Dane's point is well made. But at some point, I'm just like, man, this line is such a well oiled machine. And if and obviously you need pass rush and need cornerback, I get all that, but if you're in a situation where that's the best route, just let me keep my line. Badass,

would you take? Would you? I mean, I mean no, no, no, no, no no. At some point, thinking about center guard that swing guy if you're if you're and they will need guard deaf and he gets from Larry Leaves, which we assume he will am I correct, and he's an LSU kid. Does he play? Do he play tackle? He played every position on six six you eight tall centers. I do. I'm keeping my guard. You don't need him to play center on this team, though, But though he could. Yeah,

he could be your swing guy. They played three spots. The versatility is the key with him because he does have experience kicking out the tackle. He played guard fairly well to Senior Bowl, so you feel comfortable with his versatility to fill in at different spots. All right, listeners probably don't want to hear this, but I don't care. We're gonna follow the Ron Wolf Daane Brugler strategy. Let's go quarterback. I want a lottery ticket quarterback, and I like,

we're not. I'm talking fifth rounder later. I'm not talking about a premium pick. I want a quarterback that you can get me on day three that might turn into something, even if that's just trade mate. You haven't done these quarterbacks yet. No, that's my last group. That's the last one. I want to look at him back to back to back to back. Got a guy, Give me a guy. What about Chad Kelly from Ole Miss Oh, Machine Gun Kelly, the guy who off field. He's a train wreck like that.

Why do we want to have a train wreck at quarterback? He can play and at some point if it clicks, beat twice. He beat exactly and so a player, you know, Jim Kelly's nephew. He's got the bloodline. If he's Jim Kelly, I'm all in. You know how NFL teams love bloodline? Oh sure they quarterback kicked out of Clemson, kick out for a variety of reasons. And then then that's when the real trouble picked up. Yeah, and he got arrested

a few times. It also has an ACL coming off an a CL and so that factors in the medicals as well. But you know, with all that said, he's got an effortless arms arm and velocity's outstanding physically and mentally. The toughness is off the charts. You know, you feel good about the way he can move his athleticism. Um. So if I'm sitting there in a six or seventh round and you're taking a flyer there at six or seven, yeah, exactly. You know we're not talking about Yeah again, we're not

talking about premium picks here. No, I'm talking six or seventh round. You know, you feel good about your draft class. Uh, he's out there and say, you know the interviews went okay with him. Um, you know, my team feels comfortable to a certain extent with who he is as an individual. I'll roll the dice on him and see what we got. I'm interested in that. Do you have somebody at one thirty five you would take at quarterback? Yeah, we don't pick one thirty five. No, I'm just saying, but that's

the end of the round. That that's kind of the compensatory round. Yeah, and of the fourth. Yeah, you got somebody there. I see, like I have Nathan Peterman and in the fourth round, but I think the pit kid right, yeah, but I think he's gonna go probably second or third, just because the quarterbacks didn't get pushed up. Um. Jared Evans, the Virginia Tech quarterback junior, came out earlier. Duco kids. Watch him throw to Ford a bunch. Yeah, he's he's

so raw, incredibly raw. But I think he could be available and there's something there. There's upside that you can possibly develop. And he's not too different than Dak in terms of just a type of quarterback. They are movement, Yeah, need movement, you know, strong arm, can snap off throws. So I think that would make some sense, you know, fourth, fifth round, if he's available. I can feel our listeners screaming this into their listening devices right now. So I'm

gonna go get after it started. Cowboys started off Day three by taking Tapper last year, which we can get into that another time. But the Day three pass rushers sleepers guys that I mean, we're really focusing on the first two rounds right now. What about maybe some Day three gems that you like so far? Caraway do anything for you? No, how about Muhammad? I was about to

bring him up Caraways, TCU, karawayts TCU. I'm sorry out there, TCU and Muhammad is the gentleman that didn't play last year at Miami al Quadeine Muhammad, Yes, I've heard this thing. There we go kicked out in August right before the season started. Yeah, for an offee incident. But this sucker can move. Yeah, he can really move. A pretty good athlete. Did you study him? I have? Would you think? I'll tell you what I like him. I like the fact that you can he can hand down, he can stand up.

He's got a little bit of what we talked about with with Riddick, that that ability to do a couple of different things. I thought he was much better as a rusher than he was as really as a drop linebacker. But he's like two hundred and fifty pounds, eager to see what he waged, very eager to see what he wighs. What's he been doing the last year? Yeah, that's it always worries me. The guy has had a year off, But hey does Bryant he was off basically a year,

you know that kind of thing. But I think that if he comes in, the weight's good, the athletic ability to tape all that stuff is really good. So we'll see. But yeah, that would be a top of the third day guy for me. And I think not that he's a sleeper or anything, but I think day Shawan Hall will be in that mixed Yeah, I don't disagree with you there. The more I watch him, the more I'm kind of struggling with that. And I've seen him and

I'm thinking, well, where does he really fit? That's why I had like Mohammed Hall caraway, you know, even with the you know the Wormly people talk about Wormly though as a guy, but he's a he's a three four defensive end. To me, I think he's a base is a base end in its four or four three? Yeah, I just don't I don't see that pass rusher now Hobbit's the pass rusher, right, if you want a pass rusher, Wormley's not your guy. Okay, let me real quick here, KNT.

Do we have time? Thanks? You do we have time? Do you get a caller? You have any calling? Anybody holding one? Lined up? We just hit twelve o'clock. Okay, so we have to move on from there. But yeah, like one more one way, good time? Yeah? Um. Safeties, I mean we know that we know the top guys. We know Hooker and Adams. I'm thinking Baker, second round, third round, Baker, do anything for you? Or do we truly have one of those corners that could play safety?

Desmond King, King, Quincy Wilson one of those guys. Yeah. I think King goes earlier than than where Dallas is picking. And the second yeah probably. Um. I think a guy to keep an eye on. Josh Jones from NC State. Okay, I think he's going to test really well at the combine. If you squint really hard, I think you can see kind of a Jalen Amsy type of player. You know, he kind of did a little bit of everything, corner, safety, linebacker, excellent ball production. So I think with Josh Jones from

NC state. Nobody knows or you know, no one's talking about this name right now. But I think I to the combine more people will Justin Evans from A and M and I mean that's people have been tweeting at me about Justin Evans. I need to watch him. I haven't seen him. I do like the Connecticut safety though by that Where do you like him? Oh? I get him the third round. I struggle with him. He's so conservative sometimes so he does I mean, people would tell me he's kind of a side tackler. I don't. I

see a physical guy. But there's a history of corners. I mean, see the safeties that are tall that have made it, and then there's the Patrick Bateses of the world that haven't made it. We'll need to talk about Justin Evans because he's a supreme athlete. He can move, he flies all over the field. He'll hit you just the mistackles are maddening, and it's something that for me as a safety or when I evaluate safeties, that's something that I really have a hard time getting over. All right, well,

that's all the time we have. Thank jam Packs. Thank you very much Dave for putting that together. Really gain I want to also thank Dane Burglar, David Hellman, Kick Garrison Executive produce. I also want to thank Ed K. Hill for coming up with this idea many years ago. I want to thank Derek Eagleton as well for letting us do this, and then Taylor Stern for always pushing our stuff out there. We'll be back next week for another edition to the Draft Show. We appreciate all you

out there for listening. Take care, We'll see you soon. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.