Draft Show: McClay’s Method

combine this year alongside Ayesha Morrison. I'm Kyle Yeoman's. We are pleased to be joined by a very special guest if you got Vice President of Player Personnel Will McClay joining us now. And Will, it's been a busy week for you already. How's it been going. It's great. You said it was day number three. I feel like it's a day number twelve. How it runs were during the combine? What is this combine been light compared to some of the ones that you've had in the past. Um, it's

it's very very similar. I just think that what's changed is they're improving the player experience, which means it's a little longer day a little different for the rest of us that are trying to do our job, but it's the same old deal, oh man. Overall, I mean it really feels like that because they pushed everything back a little bit, the interviews, the drills, and it keeps you here longer, right, Yeah. I mean today we started interviews at eight in the morning and then we'll go till

eleven o'clock at night with that break in between the workouts. Okay, what do you get to eat in the middle. That's that's what we got to talk about it. Whatever's up in the suite, and you know, we roll with it. You mentioned the player experiences being important and something you guys are prioritizing. What are ways that you folks are

trying to prioritize and make the players experience better. I think what we're trying to do, the league is trying to do, and the Combine Committee is trying to give the players more opportunity to rest before their events so that they're fresher, um just giving them a better overall experience. And you know, in their introduction to the NFL overall

you mentioned kind of the overall experience. Has that shifted from a league wide scenario through from your early days to what it is now and it's become more player centric. But how has it changed for an executive like yourself. You know, we have to adjust and you know and in this game and everybody has to adjust, and there's different things that you have to do to be able to figure out how to work within the conditions that you have. So you know, they're going to give us

a set of rules. We've abide by those rules and we want to make the best of it. And the number one thing is for us is getting the opportunity to converse with the players, find out who they are, just get a little bit more information. Is that one of your favorite parts of the process is getting to know those guys. Yeah, you know, we're into people business. I've said this before. We're asking people about people. Uh,

and you know we're gathering that information. So now is our opportunity to find out that information we gather as but also to put our own you know, feelings to what we think about the player from interacting with them. Yeah,

put the face to the name. For me, it's also just seeing these guys myself, seeing their builds, seeing how they interact, just seeing how they interact with their peers, a lot of them just a lot of them just taking the time to talk about the connections that they have within some of the NFL teams already, and it's kind of cool to hear. Even from the Cowboys standpoint.

So many of the players have been like, yeah, you know Jay Ferguson as a guy, I reach out too, and and there's it's cool to know that in the Cowboys locker room there's gentlemen that are really reaching out to these guys and being encouraging and to them about the process and letting them understand it. I thought that was something that stood out to me, is there seems like some real camaraderie that's here in this class as well. Yeah,

there's a there's a brotherhood amongst these guys. And again they all kind of they know each other, like we're talking to guys in the room and uh, you know, they're like you said, there were players that say, Okay, hey, I reached out to so and so on your team to kind of give us some advice. But that's the unique part about it, and what we're trying to do is find those guys is that you not only you

gotta be good football players. You have all that, but who fits into the culture, right, because the important part of the successful teams is that they have a culture. So uh, you know, you set that standard and you you know, we we we get that feeling from guys it's okay they would fit and you know those sort that sort of information. Is there a different type of guys guy that you guys target whenever it comes to that, when it comes to the off the field and the

culture fit that you guys bring to the table. From maybe the Jason Garrett days into the Mike McCarthy days, has there been a switch on the type of personnel that you look for? Not really? I mean, you know, every system has type of players that they want. Um. Our objective on the scouting side is to evaluate guys regardless of the system, give them their value, and then

we see if they fit in. Yeah. Overall, when you look at this draft class, what stands out to you the most about some of those individuals that you've gotten to talk to so far? Where do they rank in terms of uh, kind of some of the classes that you've had in the past. Um, you know, every year it kind of changes and now you have those those players that had the COVID year, they're a little bit older. I think there are players that are older that are now in the um, you know, up for the draft.

You know, there's some twenty four twenty five year old players. So that's something that we take into consideration. But these guys are also very cognizant of their own personal brand. Uh So that's you know, it's a unique set of circumstances that we have to kind of figure out that the whole n IL And you know, players are getting paid now in college and why do they stay, why do they come out? And then how important is football

to them? Because you know, when I was coming out way back in the day, you know, I got twenty bucks the last me two weeks. Well, now they were getting these uh you know, big money deals. So finding out just how important football is to them and and and being aware that they know about business. Yeah, you know, I want to circle back to that in a couple of moments. But while we do have Dane Bruckler on the headset as well, we're adding a fourth person. You

were having some fun on Radio Row. It's Radio Row. It's a little bit hectic, but we're glad to have you on the show. Well, I want to circle back to the nil. Does that make your job harder? Does that make the scouting job harder? Because it's just another added element to throw into the table. It's something else you have to figure out that you have to dig into. And everybody's motivations different. It's like the COVID year. It's

just another the COVID year. There were some guys that did not play that year that you know, you go into it saying, oh, well, we want guys to play. Well, as you got further along, what were the reasoning you know, excuse me, the reasons why you didn't And that gives

you another layer of the player. What were some of the reasons that you still took Michael Parsons that year whenever he came off of a COVID year that he didn't play, well, you know his reasoning Big ten wasn't going to play and then they said they were going to play. I had made the decision. So they all had these different, you know, environments that they had to navigate through, and you want to hear the thought processes of why they did it and then check out the

sincerity and dig and see if the information matches. Yeah, you mentioned how there some older players in this draft class, even from like offensive line, some of these dbs or five year starters. How is that something that you guys are looking at the experience of some of these players that are deciding to stay longer and finish and kind of perfect their craft in college. You look at it both ways with that the number of snaps they've taken,

how long they've played, how many games they started. But then you also look at it from a longevity term, because when you sign a contract, there's a difference when a guy's twenty two when a guy's twenty five, and you start talking about second you know, second contracts and things like that, all you know, pieces of information that

we throw into the mix. I'm really interested in how you guys look at positional value, especially when stick tight end for example, how much do you look at, you know, say the past fifteen years tight ends drafted in the first round, what that looks like compared to tight ends drafted in the third round, fourth round. And do you do you look at certain positions and say, you know what, we feel comfortable maybe waiting or is it just it's a draft by draft basis where you know, you have

to really take each draft for what it is. To me, it's draft by draft basis. But you've also got to pay attention to the historical because that kind of gives you a balance and you know, how you look at and do things. I think, um, I really like to look at You know, every team goes into the draft with needs. Um, you look at your needs, you look at the value, you look at the depth, and and it kind of gives you an ideas to how to play that. You know that that that that market. That's

interesting because is it different from team to team. Do you have your own set history that you go back on and you kind of rely on going back and saying, Okay, maybe it didn't work out with this guy initially, maybe the position value was a little bit skewed. Um. Yeah, I think some of it's historical, but some of it is Um the conditions that your face with at the time. You know, we talk about the past, but we have

to win now. So you look at those trends and you got to figure out how you get the best players at the right value for what you need. Looking at this draft, the offensive line, the offensive tackle position or the guard position. It seems kind of not then, but less top heavy. There are some and some good tackles in this draft. Doing what you did with Tyler Smith last year, he was able. The versatility that he showed being able to play garden and left tackle actually

saved you in a lot of instances. Is that something that you guys are looking forward, looking forward, moving forward is the fact that you know you want some versatility from your offensive lineman. I think you have to have that because there's not enough quality offensive lineman for thirty two teams for everybody to have a solid offensive line. So what you look for is versatility. You look for guys that have the opportunity to grow and improve their

skill set. The college game is different from the NFL game, So you want to get guys that come into the situation and that can pick up the trends and do the things and apply those techniques that they're being taught. Because the college game in the NFL game is still different, you want guys that can develop it. Do you see any tackles? Have you seen any tackles that you think

you don't have to say the name. Have you seen any tackles that you think do have the ability to have some flex at guard or that you could move to guard it? Maybe a center that could be a guard also, yes, well, part of our deal, you know, you look for athletic people. The most athletic linemen are usually on the outside, and now do they have the ability to move inside? And the process. The further you move inside, the more information you got to consume and

you know, dissect. So you want to find out or they athletic enough, but then can they handle the other things when they go down inside? So you're looking for those versatile guys. It's a little broad, But what's the number one objective of this week for you and your staff? It's you know, obviously you want to find out more about these players, but if you're leaving Indianapolis, what's the one thing you want to make sure that you have accomplished as a group. I think you want to verify

the information that you already have. You want to confirm that and then but I think we also I talked to our group, and you know, we get our coaches involved. We want to find our feelings about the guy, not what somebody else has told us, but how to at least from this experience and which guys do we want to dig further on from this exposure, from the information we already have. It's just kind of adding stuff to make sure that we have the right guy for us.

It's the whole Tyler Smith situation. We went through it, and we spent enough time with them to know maybe people didn't, you know, realize what we realize. So you know, we go through our process to say that's a Dallas cowboy, and you know, we want to hit all the markers. That's an important part about the draft. Like, that's one thing that I'm learning myself is to block out other people's opinions and really focus on what I see and what I believe in the player and compiling all of

the information to come to a conclusion. So you're you're just doing your due diligence. That's a big part of it. I mean, that's why I enjoy talking to Dane, you know, because this is an information deal. So people gather their opinions that you see on you know, NFL networking, ESPN or they're top well they're talking to people about players and so that's how they formulate their deal. But they don't have much information and we have to talk about

what's important for us. Every organization is different and they have different elements and there's different you know, there's players that can fit in in some spots and players that can Is there an added element of this? This is a draft and develop organization. They have been for quite some time and it's been successful for quite some time in that regard as well. But is there an added element of the drafting has gone so well as of

late that at some point it won't hit that again? Well, what helps you continue pushing to try and not let that happen. Well, I think we're hoping that it continues to go that way because we have a system that we believe in. You know, I love the way that our scouts go out on the road. They they're the gems of their areas and they feel that importance and value to the organization by approaching their job that way.

We have a way that we do things. You follow that way and then you come to conclusion and then not having an ego, because part of our process is everybody's involved in it. Go from you know, September when they go out until up until you know, the draft meetings and everything else. So they have that input and we feel like with that recipe that nobody's an expert. I mean, if we were batten sixty percent, you know, we'd be doing great, pretty good. We'll be doing pretty

like baseball players. So it's it's the collective process. Everybody has a grade. They put their grade on. We don't talk about the grade. And if there's variants, then it the way I feel about it. There's variants, they're somewhere in the middle, and that's where that grade. Usually you know, you average them out and that's probably where that player is.

Because we value the input of everybody. You've been doing this for so long now I'm really interested in how what have you what's the biggest thing you have learned since you started in this role compared to now that you know, because obviously every year brings something different, you learned the most important thing, most important aspect of an evaluators to self evaluate and understand. Okay, maybe did we get this wrong? Did I see this right? But what's

one thing? Maybe it's from when you started in this role till now that you've really learned. Um, I've become more and more willing to understand my biases, you know, everybody has biases. There's you know, there's there's Uh, I was a dB. I know it look like a nose guard, but I was. I was a corner. And there are certain ways that I was taught and learned the game that I see somebody doing it and when I was coaching, I wouldn't coach it that way, and so I would

have a bias. And I still have biases. There's just certain things that I believe in. Now that's my bias. And each individual person in our in our department, based on where they came from, based on what they've done, they have their biases. So recognizing that and you know, understanding you know what biases you have and saying all right, maybe I'm not right on this, and being able to listen to everybody else and kind of figure it out.

I'm still going to have my principles, my beliefs, but I know when I have a bias, I have a deal that, Um, there's a certain position and if you play that position and you wear a towel, that's like my bias. I'm like, no, you're supposed to you know, it's not supposed to be coming out of you know, you're supposed to be nasty. That's an initial bias. I know it when I see it. I'll take ye interesting. Are there any other biases you could share, because I'm

intrigued by that that first one. The first one was that, Yeah, that was kind of out of the blue. I like it. There's some technical things like, um, again, it's it's it's footwork. I mean maybe because I have seen things a certain way and I was taught football way back in the day.

It's leveraging angles, and so I look at the game differently than somebody who might be you know, uh, you know, maybe not as well versed and you know, being around the game as long, but they're really good at their job. They might not see what I see, or I might not see what they see. I think that it there

are some things that uh, I won't I won't reveal. Right, Oh, there's so many wheels turning right now, and I wish I wish we could hear it would do kind of along those same lines, but not necessarily exactly along the same lines. This is a front office. This is a staff that hasn't necessarily drafted undersized players in the path. That's certain positions, most notably wide receiver. There are a lot of really good wide receivers in this draft class.

Is that something that is still on the table moving forward. Is that something that the staff would look into if the right guy fit. Well, yeah, it's it's if the right guy fits. I mean, you build your team football, you know, this game of angles and leverage, and you were all looking for the you know, that's why we're at the combine. We want to measure and want to see how tall they are, how long their arms are,

how fast they run. That builds a profile, but then you know, you have to figure out what you're looking for, but not just for that situation, but for the long run. So typically the bigger, longer, more athletic players they play in the league. There's more of those guys. But the game has become so different now it's spread out, it's played latterly and vertically, is not as much you know, run games, So you have to look differently and you kind of assess the trends and kind of figure out,

you know, what fits what you do. And you also have to have which I think we do have as a coaching staff that's willing to use the abilities of the guys that you pick because it's you know, there's you hear about systems. Well, if there's a system and you're trying to fit pieces into a system, well then you eliminate guys. So you really want to find people that have in our coaching staff and you know, the offensive and the defensive side have done a great job

of finding that. You using the players talents you know to be able to contribute and to contribute early. That's why we draft and develop. We tell them what the guys can do and what the ears are concerned are. We've got to be exact on that so the coaches know when they put the guy in, we at least know we're getting this. And to your point, I from the dB position, it really feels like a lot of these these defensive backs are they have the ability to press.

It seems like it's an emphasis on press. Do you is that Do you think that's a result of just how they is being played on the offensive side of the ball. Also to the length of cornerbacks. Now, from my understanding, like being under six foot was well, being under six foot wasn't a huge deal, but these guys are like six too, lengthy, long arms and it's it's almost like a norm. Now, what what do you think

about that? That change in the cornerback position. You know, I think college football is so spread out and it's played so differently, and you know, you have all these different schemes. That's the hurry up pace. There's a lot of different things that you have to be able to slow the offense down. So how can I slow the

offense down by delaying releases? By doing certain things? That's why the corners you see longer corners and the athletes now, you know, back in the day, you'd see a six foot corner and you would say they can't bend, they can't change direction. Yeah, I mean it's it's incredible the event, like it's seeing twenty pounders run under five flat. You know, there's the chemicals in the milk or something. Also what it is, that's what it is. Yeah, it's the almond milk.

You know, everybody drinking almond milk, oat milking everything. Now, I'm fascinated with how you how do you handle outliers? You know, how do you brace being the ultimate outlier? With this size We've never seen h the status the last twenty five years have been three hundred and one quarterbacks drafted two we're under six foot an under two

hundre pounds, so we're talking about complete outlier. But even at okay, Peter Scronsky, look the left tackle who has great left tackle tape, but his arms are probably gonna be thirty two and a quarter thirty two and a half. So how do you handle those outliers where he doesn't Not just those two players specifically, but maybe a player doesn't hit the exact arm length that you're looking for, or you know, the testing might not match up perfectly, but you know what, the tape shows a darn good

football player. How do how do you balance that? I mean, you look at the production. You got to throw it all into the mix, and there's you know, reasons why guys performed. There's um you know if if if like my father, you say just because said he would say that blind people hear better. Okay, So depending upon your deficiencies, you develop some way to overcome and to be able

to do what your job is. Um it's like looking at every situation, looking at guys and trying to go through the steps of you know, how did this guy achieve this? Who was he playing against? Da da dah and there's some people that are just outliers. We're playing the percentage game, but there are some people that are outside of that percentage and then you have to value that. Yeah, overall, I need you to just cancel the rest of your day. Well you're not, You're you don't need anything else to do.

You're just gonna sit here and talk football with us for the next hour. Is great to do, Yeah, Will Wills, Yeah, yeah, you would probably make that switch any day. Will's gotta go. Thank you so much for taking some time. This was awesome as always, Good luck the rest of the way. Go find some good, good players. There he goes, and there's Will McClay. Will be back with more of the Draft show right after this. Hey Cowboys fans, if you're looking for a full time or part time job, check

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It's Miller Time. Celebrate Responsibily twenty twenty one. Miller Brewing Company for Worth, Texas is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Welcome back into the Draft Show, presented by Millerlite, the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys. It's Miller Time and it's draft time. Here on the Draft Show, We've got Dame Brugler, Aisha Morrison of Kyle Yeoman's. We just

wrapped up with Will McClay great as always. I mean, anytime you get to pick the brain of the guy who really runs the draft ship for the Dallas Cowboys. It's always going to turn into something. He doesn't always want to really give out a ton of information, but

he gave out some really good stuff there. I really value his perspective, just you know, the position that he's in, the experience that he has, you know, because he's player, coach, evaluator, like he's he brings a really diverse background to his job. And you know, I was just asking him how how his job has evolved over time and what he looks for and you know, how he handles outliers all those days. It was just a really fun conversation. What do you think?

Oh yeah, I mean it was dope hearing him talk about just the process. Man, It's so it sounds so thorough and just step by step by step by step, and I was so just liked hearing him talk about how the Cowboys want to make their own decisions, they want to make form their own opinions. Like, yeah, we value some of the information that's been given. But he

talked about coming to the combine. He was like, we're trying to put get definitive information, you know, based off of the stuff that we've been thinking or searching or researching. So I just I enjoyed hearing about kind of the process and barnacles. It's one of the well and like I said, Will McClay is really really good. It's saying a lot but saying a little, and that's something he's done throughout his Career's pardon why he's good at his

job throughout his career. One thing he did say there that I've never really heard of, but you can see a trend with was when asked about your outlier question, I love that question, by the way, that's a good question when weighing the outliner liars. He said, we value the production right off the bat. That was his first couple of words, production, production, production. You can see that with the trends that they've drafted with throughout the years.

You talk about guys like treyvon Dix, Tyler Smith, Micah Parsons. It's important to point out that production doesn't always just mean what's in the stat sheet. Production can be you know, watching him on the field and seeing, Okay, he's creating disruption out there, or you know, he's getting the job done it. Productions not just oh, did he have at least ten sacks? You know, so when he said, I do believe when he said production, it wasn't just speaking

of just the stat sheet for sure. And it looks like there's a lot of times that Cowboys Nation will look at and say traits or what they look to the most, and traits are a teams you could say that about you look at traits, that that's always going to be the case, or else we wouldn't have even

asked the conversation about shorter players and undersized players. But the production, the way that he sounded like he was weighing it is that the production outweighs the traits, which is an interesting thought process, something something that not a ton of teams do, I mean, but some teams certainly rely on it. Well and I'm okay Tyler Smith. Last year,

UM talk about the traits. He certainly had those traits that you're looking for, UM, But you know, it was a little bit up and down, but you look at the production, you look at the good things that he did, and you're like, you know what, we're willing to bet on that that with some added coaching, he's going to get better and better and better. And so it was also interesting, you know, kind of alluded to this, but how what's good for them might not be good for

somebody else. And you know, like they're drafting for one team, one culture, one roster. The way things are, it's going to be different than what another team's looking for. And so, you know, we I think we seem to in the

draft space. You know, Okay, well, this guy's clearly the top receiver or this guy's you know, it's this, there's no such thing as a consensus when it comes to the draft, and there's no such thing because every team is looking for something a little bit different that suits them, that that that fits their strengths. So you know, I think that he that's something I think he made sure

to point out. Yeah, and he talked about even the locker room fit, like we talked about it before we even started recording, just how important the locker room fit is too. Is this gentleman's personality going to fit in with the guys we already have here. You don't want someone coming in disrupting, you know, some of the chemistry that you have. So we were talking about just how you kind of pay attention to how they interact with their peers, how they are at the podium when they're here.

He also mentioned NIL and just how that that was super dope, because well, I hopefully we can get into that, but yeah, I would. I wanted you guys as thoughts on, like, I'm still learning about NIL and all that stuff, But how do you think it's affected how the scouting process goes and even the drafting process goes. It's even more so like the transfer portal, you know, because I think

it was you know, ten years ago. If a guy couldn't was blocked on the depth chart and he transferred, it's like, oh, does this guy is afraid of competition? You know, Like, but now it's like, Okay, I don't blame him for going to go to a better situation where he could get on the field show what he can do. And so yeah, the mindset has really changed because of the way the college football game has changed.

You know, either you evolve with things or you're gonna be stuck playing catchup because in the college game, very different in the NFL game, and there's so many different things you have to weigh. NA L just another one, and everybody is still learning the NIL. The transfer portal, whether it's collegiately or at the professional level as well. You talk about the adjustments that need to be made there,

not everybody will adjust the same. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion on how to hit it at least at first, and then it's a copy to cat league. Everybody will kind of come together on a consensus based off of what you've seen the last couple of years. For the Cowboys, do you feel like they're in a good spot to make those adjustments compared to the rest of the thirty

one out of the teams? Yeah, and I think that they Okay, you know, we've talked about it in the past, how the Cowboys, you know, like they're not gonna draft a defensive tackle in the first round or we've talked about how you know, there's certain trends, whether it be they're not going to draft a small school player, and I think it's important to pay attention to those trends.

But it's also important to, you know, understand that they just they want to get better and they want to get the players that are going to best fit this team and best get them make them a better roster. So it's important to have an open mind to who they might go after, especially in a draft like this where you know you're again picking later in the first round. We don't know how those first twenty five picks you're

gonna play out. You know, last year it's you know, Tyler Smith would have been different outlook if a certain you know, say Zion Johnson is still available or you know, how does that change things? And so you know, I think it's important just have an open mind to how they might be attacking this specific draft. Yeah, and when you talk about, well, the last couple of years, I do feel like in the first round they've taken best

player available for them. Yeah, Like when you mentioned Tyler Smith, like he mentioned here Will McClay, like a lot of people had different opinions about Tyler Smith, but they felt like this guy is a good get fit for us and it actually paid dividends for them because of his flex that they felt like he had that we I know, I wasn't too sure about myself, so so so best to your point, best player available to us may not

be best player available to them. Yeah, and you know a lot of that comes from the interviews, the meetings, you know, understanding, hey, is this guy really going to put everything he has into being the best version of himself, because you know, if you don't believe that with Tyler Smith, you can't draft him. If you don't think that he's gonna work and put his best foot forward and try to get every ounce of talent that he has out of that out of his ability, you just can't draft

him in the first round. But obviously through their interactions, through their meetings and interviews, you know they felt like he would do that, and that's something that you know, the interview process is different from team to team with the questions they ask or you know, how they feel about the players. So you know, that's just another wrinkle to the whole evaluation process that makes it a very

inexact science and different from team to team. Oh and it makes the interviews that much more imperative to the one on one the scouting department getting to sit down and Will McClay getting to sit down and talk with him up until eleven o'clock at night, like he said a little bit earlier. With that being said, there are some confirmed Cowboys meetings that we have had throughout the interview process. This week, I'll name some of these guys.

Felix on your DK Zama from Kansas State. Practicing, I have been practicing. Thank you, Derek Call out of Alabama linebacker day on Henley, Oh, Auburn, I'm meant to say Alabama. I mean, I'm meant to say Auburn dayon Henley out of Washington State to marve An over Shown out of Texas, Emmanuel Forbes from Mississippi State, Joey Porter Junior from Penn State, TREYE. Dean from Florida, J. L. Skinner from Boise State, and Israel Abanconda got it again running back. So what do

you think about this short list of names? This is still very This is what one, two, three, four five. That's like seven or eight names out of eighty or not eighty forty five formals and countless informal interviews. So do you think interesting names there? I mean, we we've talked about Emmanuel Forbes quite a bit before, but you know, he's he's a guy that with that body type you just every teams to you you looking at a little bit differently.

We'll see what he officially weighs in at here at the combine, but probably we're talking under seven hundred and seventy five pounds for a guy that's gonna be six one and a half six two. Um, you know, that's that's we talk about outliers, talk about certain thresholds that each team wants. How our team's gonna look at that. Um. So with Emmanuel Forbes, when you sit down an interview him, just finding out, hey, is this just your body type? Is this you know, trying to get a better understanding

of uh, you know, the growth potential there. So, Um, that's interesting. Um, a couple of first round potential first rounders on there. Joey Porter Junior. Um, you know, he's he's a really interesting corner who I don't think it's out of the top twenty twenty four picks, but you never know. He's he's a guy that is a true press corner. He wants to get up, park his chin right underneath, uh, the receiver, and he's gonna make contact

and he's gonna ride that receiver up and down the field. So, um, a certain type of corner compared to maybe some of the other guys who maybe offer a little more versatility. Yeah, and with with the all the visits they had, it looks like there's DB's a thing. DV in general is a thing I mean there's five on that list alone, now, three corners, two safeties, jail Skinner being one of them. I was actually state, you know, you know, cowboys got

the boys state fever. That's the thing with Jail Skinner. I've never seen a safety with an identical body type as aj Green the receiver. Yeah, it's it's it's uncanny. It's identical. It's the sixty four or sixty three and three quarters whatever it is. Um, but how lean he is, like through his legs like there, he doesn't have calves. It's it's it's I don't know, sorry, but it's just it's just uncanny. How he's identical body type. So sorry,

cutting no, no, no, I was. That's just one of the things that I definitely noticed, like the Cowboys clearly understand that they need to get more d I was surprised by, not surprised, but the d Some of the d n's I'm not I'm not saying. I'm not saying I don't think that d N is not like a need or anything like that. But some of these guys are gentleman, like, you know, I'm not gonna want to mess up his name. Derek call Byron young those. I'm like, okay,

can you say Felix. I'm say Felix, Yeah, I got you, Felix on Udique Zama. So I'm at the practice. That's a good That's a good thing though, because you look at edge rusher, what does the future look like for a DeMarcus Lawrence Dorance Armstrong is going into a final year. They can maybe extend him if they really wanted to. You've got Mica that contracts coming up to So drafting edge rusher isn't out of the question. It's probably not

an overall arching need. It's not gonna be a first round, certain round pick, but if there's a quality edge rusher, maybe middle of the draft. And all three of those names aren't first round names for the most part, probably not. But you know, ed drusher is always weird because you

know it's a premium position. Sure, so there's no such thing as having too many of those guys, especially with the way that you know defenses work these days in sub and you just want to get guys, get get guys that can get get to the quarterback on the field. You know, nobody knows that better than Cowboys with Michael Parsons, who is not your traditional uh ed rusher, but you know what, he can get to the quarterback and so

you figure out a way to make that happen. And so if they find another guy like that, a quarterback hunter, uh, you know, I think you, you know, you at least consider that in the first round, because I think it's important. We don't, you know, you don't narrow your focus in the first round and say, you know, we have to get a corner guy. That's where this team has gotten

in trouble in the past. You know, Tacos, That's where this team has gotten in trouble in the past, where they say, we need to get exposition here in the first round. Oh man, you have to keep your you know, you have to make sure you're drafting the best player at an impact position that's going to help your roster. In fairness, I really do feel like since Mike McCarthy has been here that that is kind of fizzled out. Also too, Dan Quinn, like you can see his influence

on on these past few drafts. Now, I will ask you, guys, so DT is something that I definitely feel like is a is a need given the fact that you've seen with the Cowboys. I feel like they've drafted guys that had pass rush ability on also a DIGGI zuas like those gentlemen that have passed rushability Nevill Gallimore. But having Hankins come in this past year and be a true nose seemed to really help this defensive line. Not sure

if he's coming back next season. Is there a dt that you're like, you know what, man, that is maybe that you're okay with. Besides you know the obvious that you're okay with maybe at a first round because we didn't get to talk to him about that, but it was clear that Hankins as a nose and just having a true nose made a huge difference in the run defense and just the edge rushers being free, being able to stunt all that stuff. So how do you guys

feel about that? Are you talking about a true nose or any type of defensive I mean, when we talk about the last few drafts and the way that they've drafted, I feel like they've drafted guys at the d D position that had that could get up field, but that has not helped sir of them and run defense. So do you shift your thinking as a coordinator or and you're scouting like, hey, we love guys that like to rush the passer from that position, but it's hurting our

run defense. Do you now convert to we have enough edge rushers or we're gonna put stock into edge rushers and we're gonna really get some gentlemen in here that can clog up this middle of this defense. And I think that it's a great question. I think it's ideally you try to find the guys that can help you in both areas. You know, the interchangeable like if you want to kick him inside, play him as a as

a nose or a one. Uh, you know he can handle a double team, but you also want to be able to keep him if you want him over the B gap and you want him getting up field, he can attack gaps. So you know a guy like Keanu Benton from Wisconsin and if you've watched him, yeah, yeah, he's a he's a good player who he was a nose at Wisconsin. But you feel like there's pass rush potential there. So I think ideally for a team like this, that should be the you know who, you're who, you're

gunning for, the guys that could play either role. I completely agree with that, because that's what dan Quinn has shown. I mean, he's basically like, give me a guy, I'm gonna make him work. I'm gonna make it work. The only place that that hasn't necessarily happened is the interior of the defensive line. I'm saying, and it's not because the Nevil Gallimos of the world aren't the best players. It just might not fit what they're trying to do

with the interchangeability, So versatility could work. Nevil Gallimore is not gonna be a one tech. He's not gonna line up on the nose. He's not gonna have that ability. Oh say, dig Zoo as great as a pass rusher as a three tech, but he's also not gonna be a nose Go get you a guy who's got that versatility, but maybe was with it a little bit more of a nose tackle background. Because who made the biggest impact on the run defense this year. Jonathan Hankins, big Furley

nose tackle. He was only a nose tackle, but he's the one that really made the biggest impact throughout the season. Well, if they want to know more about um Kenn Benton, they just need to go call up Jake first, and they were they were roommates for a little bit there, mentioned going up Againstian practice and how they talk and Iron Sharpen's iron. That Wisconsin offensive line, obviously is they're

known for their offensive line. So for Keano to be going toe to toe with them, I think helping improved his game. He was a lot smaller than what I thought he was going to be. No small guy. Yeah, but when he was at the podium, he plays don't get me, he just take her favorite player. It was like the first but he just he I just expected to see this like early human. And he's he's pretty lean to be as big as he is. He's got a he's got a big body, but he's he's not

like three. He's not Mozzi Smith, who's you know, three thirty three, three thy five. He's more three fifteen. Um. He might even slim down even more here too, so he can run better. Um. So yeah, well I don't Yeah, I guess he did measure this morning, but I haven't seen an official uh wait for him yet. What do you think about Massy Smith's fit. I know we talked a little bit about him yesterday, but you think about the versatility between a one in the three both potentially. Yeah.

I mean he's not just a strictly a stocky plugger. You know you're not, but that's what he does best in terms of taking on doubles, and he's so good with his leverage the way he understands it. He like every player has a level of play strength or power, MASI, Smith accesses his power better than most players in this draft. Having the understanding of your body and how to access that power to maximize it. He's so good at that. So um yeah, I think that that's what makes Mozy

a potential first round picking this draft. Now, this is a second great day. We've talked about Smith, and everything you're saying is just blinking light to me. I mean, I know it's early. I know it's early, but that just sounds like a fit. I don't know if it's the fit of twenty six. We have a long way to go up until that, but at least in the early couple days. I think a lot of this first one.

I think a lot of teams are thinking that way too, though, you know, to add a maybe not the last year's player, but then I had someone that you're just gonna plug in. It's gonna help everybody else in that front seven. You're gonna help your run defense from day one. So yeah, I do think there'll be several teams looking at that in that late one early two window and saying, hey, maybe not the sexiest pick, but and he's gonna make us a better team. Yeah, And Carl Brooks from Bowling Green.

It's also a guy that has some versatility. They used him on the outside and used him, they pushed him into the inside. Now I do feel like, not by the way, the biggest combined snumb this year. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, he didn't get snubbed, didn't get in. Yeah, it doesn't mean he won't get drafted, but but it was a big snub. Yeah. Like I guess I was actually looking for him. But he's hard to get hands on as well. And I think he is also a guy that has

some pass run. He can develop into a better pass rusher, but he has some nos ability and you can move him across the line. I thought he was a guy that maybe you can keep your eye out for him. Now he's only three oh five, which is not tiny, but with him being out used on the outside and stuff, I think that has to do with a size. So I guess it depends on what a team wants from him. But I was just saying, when you talk about a versatile you know DT that maybe can do that as well.

Maybe you know Brian brought us is listening to this and he's just thinking so many harsh things to us right now about position flex. We're not talking about position flex, about versatility, Brian y all right, tax season can be more stressful than the last second. Hell Mary, with the game on the line, overcome your taxiety today with Liberty Tax, a proud partner of the Dallas Cowboys. Book an appointment

at Liberty tax dot com slash Cowboys. When we come back, we're gonna do some Twitter on the twenty and we'll wrap up Draft show coverage here from the Combine and twenty twenty three presented by Miller Lite will be back in just a moment Twitter on the twenty I'm Dak Prescott, quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys. Blockchain dot com is one of the most trusted ways to buy, sell, and trade crypto.

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and ols with me Everson Walls. With Star Sports Tours, you can visit Cowboys Travel dot com to book your travel package. Today is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft shop. Jimpac Motorsports Experience in the World returns that Arlington this Sunday had the AT and T Stadium on March fourth for Monster Jam. Tickets are on sale now at Sekgeek dot Calm, the official ticketing provider of AT and T Stadium. I know you're bummed that you're gonna be out here

in Indianapolis. You're gonna miss Monster Jam. Dane. Yeah, that's all right. They come to They come to Northeast Ohio. So I'll get a chance. It's just not a state that's true. It's I'll tell you what. I was fascinated the first time ever. Uh saw that stadium with just dirting in it. Yeah, oh my wow. Like that's the operations people there. Man. They do some big time work that is wild, like the monster cards awesome. Yeah, I

want to go to there. That'd be fun. They had like motocross there last week, big event, and then they had the they have monster trucks all the time. Take some headphones or your plugs just case, because it's it's that bad. It's fun. We took my six year old and he cried, oh no, that's what I'm gonna do. As soon as we're done with this segment because it's our last segment here for the Draft show at the Combine, Dane Brugler I used to Morris said, I'm Kyle Yeomen's

let's wrap up with a little bit of twitter. On the twenty Twitter Twitter, Brandon said, who is one prospect that you think the Cowboys would regret passing on in the first round? I know, again super early. However, there's some names there that have been mentioned kind of thrown into the mix. Is there's one that sticks out that they could pass on and that that would regret. I

think the obvious name is Bijean. Yeah, I mean that's uh, that's one of those realistic you could see him being there and you could see them passing um and then you could realistically see Bijeon having a uh, you know, fifteen hundred yard rushing season as a rookie. And I mean that that seems like the most obvious name there. Um,

who's another less obvious name? Maybe, um, one of these receivers, reiver Jordan Addison, maybe you know, doesn't give you the size, but man, he can get open, he can he can make plays for you. So what about one of these tight ends telling you, man, I don't know, but I don't know about but I don't know wide receiver. When

you mentioned the size thing and stuff like that. I think some of these speedy guys, like even like a Jalen Hyatt, who I think he's gonna put the burners on plenty of times in this league and we might look back and be like, dang, because he can just get, he can just run past people. We can just get. And vertical verticality is like we see it with the Chiefs. Like teams that can play vertical, they're they're flying past these dvs. It makes a different speed is something that

people want. So if they pass up on a speedy receiver, I think that that would make me send. Did you like Will's answer to that question the way that he outlined it? It kind of felt like he kind of went around it a little bit, and I expected him to do so. Sure, I asked the question just to throw it out there. Maybe he'd give us a little nugget, but it kind of felt like he didn't want to address, Yes,

we will draft it if it's the right guy. Didn't really sound like we didn't want touch word receiver like this.

People was not falling for it well, talking about like tight ends for example, like how do you you know talking to Will about and asking about first round tight ends waiting on tight ends, UM, it's it's a really interesting philosophy because this is a team that, um the last first round tight end was Matt ninety eight, so uh, you know, and the last tight end they drafted top fifty was Gavin Escobar over ten years ago, so you know,

it's it's a position they like to wait on. We've seen it time and time again the last few years. So and they've had decent you know, I think Dalton Schultz and you know what he's brought to the team, and so it's not like they've totally struck out doing

with that mindset. But it'll be interesting if one, you know, going back to the original question about where they going to regret passing it if their top tight end, whoever that may be, whether it's Michael may or whether it's Dalton Kinka, Luke Musgrave, Darnel, whoever is their top tight end. If he's there, if then in the first round, that will be awfully tempting to go ahead and just take him right there. But you know, it could be something they end up regretting if they pass. I wanted to

ask you guys, since we're talking about tight end. He got two two tight ends right now, right now and Um and Jake Ferguson that both have the receiving qualities kind of the you know, like they both are blocked. They're both better at blocking now. But do you put a just appeer blocking tight end or a guy that

is specialized in that. Do you mix it up or do you want to you think that they're going to continue to go the route of we kind of want a guy with some of that elusiveness, that receiving quality type stuff, or are they going to be in a place to where they're more like maybe when we want a guy more like a Sean McCune who came in and it's just really active in the blocking game. We talk about Mike McCarthy talking about I want to run the ball. I want to run the damn ball, and

he loves tight ends four plus guys. He loves those types of guys on your football. So I wonder if that plays a role in whether you go for a guy like Kincaid a Musgrade instead of a concase because of the block in Darnel Washington, Washington. But and then the question becomes, Okay, is the value there where we're drafting a sixth offensive lineman? And it depends because every

team is different. Exactly exactly this scheme and the way that it's being talked about, and just kind of some of the things that Mike McCarthy liked to do before he don't play your tight end's gone block? Well, what did you think about the way Will McClay answered the tight end question? And the way he kind of addressed it, because that might give you a little insight or zero wins. It felt like they go wait right, It felt like they're gonna wait. Do you guys think this is a

draft where you can't wait? I think so? Uma, Yeah, I think it's a really deep group. Do you have a favorite maybe after that first their second tier that you like. I'm looking at a couple of guys not not sticking out paying Durham from Purdue. Maybe get seeing one of those guys. Yeah, you had a great senior bowld um. What do you think about Will Mallory out of Miami as a guy another singer bowl guy? Yeah?

His tape just I don't left me wanting more, you know, I just he looks he's a good looking athlete, but I don't know, I just wanted to see more out of him, didn't. I didn't love him much. I thought a guy who if he falls to say, like the fourth round. Luke Schoonmaker from Michigan is a guy that

I really like. He's I don't think he gets enough credit for the athlete that he is, but he can also block um and so I Louse Schoonmaker from Michigan's a really good player who I have a third round grade on him, But if he were to fall into that early fourth maybe that's a that's a guy the Cowboys would go get somebody Brian mentioned on one of the previous shows because I marked it down BB and I went back and watched a couple of games. Oh yeah,

you let him know. Brian's got a good eye. No he does, but uh yeah, there's a couple of guys there. What about Cameron lot too as well? Yeah, it's so damn yeah, he was if the ball wasn't going to Jamire Gibbs, brace Young was trying to find uh, Cameron lat too. He didn't. He did a nice job before her pass rusher made that transition to a tight end, and I thought he did a nice job this year

work in the middle of the field. Not a ton of yak, not a ton of big plays, but a guy that can work the middle of the field, get open, give you those little windows. And so yeah, he's also

I think in that fourth fifth round range. Yeah, I actually feel like, listening to some of the conversation, I think that Laportza from Iowa, his stock is not gonna say it's dropping, But I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like it's as hype as it was, So I feel like he could be a guy that's there in the later rounds Now people are really hung up about his drops. I think that was when you look at the Iowa offense, there was a lot going on there at a little bit. There's a little bit of a

struggle there. Whatnot a bit of a struggle there? Sometime I wonder if you get in with some coaching and see how he does or whatever. But he's one of the guys that I feel like in a lot of the conversation started too to not dwindle down, but it's not. I don't hear people as excited about him as opposed to many these other tight ends because of the receiving ability and things like that. Here's a quote from a scout on Laporta. I was ready for this. Sam isn't

quite Fan or Hawkinson to former EYO with tight ends. Yes, but he's tougher than both of them. He competes like Kittle, oh wow, wows very high praise, and so a guy that, yeah, he won't be as athletic as Hawkinson or or fan and you know, be that imposing target out there, but he competes a basic guy. He had a meniscus injury

and then he came back for the bowl game. How many how many guys in today's you know, college football seniors have a meniscus injury and then they're gonna work their way back to get back on the Most guys are shutting it down. Yeah, I mean especially injury. Yeah yeah, especially like Iowa who's not playing for them college football playoffs. Yeah, this is a guy that I mean, you talk about grit, you talk about this. That's what Scott's talk about with

with Sam Laporto. So that's why how be shocked if he if he falls too far right? I think that he's just he's a guy you want your locker room. Um, I still think somewhere top one hundred. I think laport ends thank you for that information because that's what that's literally what Will was just talking about is like we can watch all the film all day, but to hear the toughness, some of the behind the scenes stuff, just some of the things he's he's worked through, you know,

throughout his career. Put some stuff in perspective for him as a player. Yeah for me, so thank you for that second straight date. We've talked about tight ends as well. This might be it's a theme I'm coming around, guys coming around, because when I first started watching him, I was like, okay, sometimes exciting. Some of these guys are exciting to watch. So oh man, well this has been a whole lot of fun. YEA three shows here over the last couple of days, A couple with our friend

Dame Brugler from the Athletic. Be sure to check him out because the next time we'll probably hear from Dane the Beast will probably be out there. Hopefully. What's the due date? Are you? What are you getting that out there? It's that first weekend April. That's always the goal. Um, you know, I really a month from now hopefully we're putting the final touches on. I want to get all the prote information in there, and that goes up until that first week in April. Um, you know it's important

to get all that data in there. So it's the month of March. The month of March doesn't happen for me. It's it's just it's strictly finishing in watching these guys bring sunlight. No, no such thing in March. But once the draft guy's out in April, then I can. I'll hit send on that tweet that says hey guys, here it is, and then put my phone down, take the dog for a walk, try to take a deep breath, come back, and my phone will be blowing up with why'd you have him here? That's all right, we'll deal

with that. Then we'll get there. No, it's crazy. I went to the draft last year on my own, before Yes started doing any of this. Funniest thing was people carrying around the beast like it was a bible. They had it like like like it was a Bible like it was. It was so many people out there caring around. I'm like, that is not no bible. The funny it is it basically like I always enjoy when they show snapshots from a war room or an NFL team and

and then you have all humble about it. I mean, yeah, there's only a couple more years left of Dane Brugler doing this media stuff being a normal guy. He's gonna be interviewing like, yeah, that's fair, that's fair. Everything's on the table, Dane, Thanks so much. It's always a pleasure, We'll talk to you again down the line for Asia Morrison, I'm Kyle Yeoman's for our producer Alex Lilly behind the camera, setting all of this up this week on Radio Row,

saying so long from Indianapolis. We'll see you back at the Star in Frisco on Wednesday with more of the Draft show, presented by Miller White. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.