Draft Show: Looking Ahead To The Combine

to Dallas Cowboys dot Com. David Hellman, writer for Dallas Cowboys dot Com, and Kent Garrison, executive producer. Once again, we do welcome you to the Draft Show, where we attempt to investigate and educate. I'm going to get into some things today that i think will be very pertinent to what we're gonna be talking about here in the future. I think Dane shares my disdain right now for rules that are going to be that are happening within the combine.

Right I've always loved the combine, and I've always thought it was a major part of what we did. The medical information, to me, was always the most important I can go to tallahassee our Gainesville, these places in time. A guy, I just need to know how healthy these guys are. We'll get into that in just a second. We're also going to get into our staple of Twitter on the twenty. Need your help right there for that. Want to take the opportunity, you know, I see a

lot of Twitter questions to Dane Brugal. I see a lot of questions to David Hellman about players. This is your opportunity. You know, take this opportunity, you know, full advantage of it. Tweet at the Draft show, and that's where you're going to get your questions answered there on Twitter on the twenty. You know, if you have a question about, Hey, Dane, what do you think about this guy, the Muhammad kid from Miami. You know it didn't play the whole year. Give me some idea what you think

about the guy? You know, that's your opportunity. We appreciate, we want interaction with the fans. We also believe that, you know, like we said, it's it's our job to try and talk these things through and give you the best educated opinion you can have on these players. We're also going to have a little opportunity to David Hellman has also created a a I don't want to call it a game, but a discussion something I think about

around this time of year. Yeah, and Dave wants to know, Hey, we talk about a lot of guys a lot of the time. But who the guys were not talking about? You know, That's that's I think that's important. I think our vocabulary about these players is pretty extensive. You know, Danes is a little bit further along than mine, but I'm getting there. Well, who are we talking about too much? Or too much? Yeah? Yeah, that's the big one for me. Yeah, I mean, and you know, the Senior Bowl plays a

role in that. And sure the media darlings, the guys that you knew were going to be big draft picks before the football season even ended. And now is the time where narrative gets replaced by people watching tape and developing opinions and things like that. And we all know for a fact scouts are catching up with the draft skills somebody we're not talking about. It's gonna be like a top fifteen pick, it absolutely ends. Yeah, So we're gonna get into that today. If we have an opportunity,

we'll take some your calls. Numbers are on the screen eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. You know, I encourage you. I asked Kent, hey, we have any calls, maybe at the end of the show we can grab a couple if we have some time. But that's a couple of different ways. That's what the show is going to be today. So I hope everybody will follow along with us in that in that regard, and Dana, I do want to talk to you about this, And David, I want to talk to you about this

combined rule. Tell me explain the rule first. You're good at explaining things. Explain the rule and explain to me why it's hurting NFL clubs and it's hurting players too. It is and this new rules it's new this year. Basically, once a players invited the combine, they are subject to a background check, and if that background check comes back with any type of felony or misdemeanor conviction connected to a violent crime, sexual assault, domestic balance, that type of thing,

then that combine invite is rescinded a right. So that has affected Chad Kelly, the old miss quarterback. That has affected Joe Mixon, from Oklahoma, a few other guys, the Baylor wide receivers, Amra Stringfellow, the wide receiver from Old miss and a few others. So it's something that is keeping guys from going to the combine, and to me, it's just it's very counterproductive. You know, the combine is a place you know mentioned the medicals. Yes, that's first

and foremost. Yes, I think a close second is the interview process a chance for these teams and coaches to get acquainted with players. And I think people they say, oh, well, they screwed up, you know, they don't get to go. Well, the combine is not a reward. It's a job interview. It's a job interview. It's a step in that job interview, and a job interview is as important for the interviewer as it is for the interviewee. You know, absolutely right both.

So if I'm a company and I'm investing into a person, I want to know everything about them. I want to be comfortable with them. And we know the NFL will you know, they don't have necessary not every team of standards in terms of who they'll take on their team. And this combines a chance to get to know a Joe Mixon better, Chad Kelly, better understand their circumstances, find

out more about them. Not being at the combines not going to sway a team from not drafting them, right, So now it forces them to go and get that more information elsewhere at the pro day, personal workouts, you know, fly them in that type of deal. So it makes for a team, It makes my job harder if I'm an NFL team. And for a player like Joe Mixon, he gets to avoid the media fire store scrutiny of it all right, He gets to avoid the speed dating interview process at the combine and he still gets to

work out as pro day. So really it doesn't hurt team or the player as much as it hurts the NFL teams who are trying to find out as much information about these guys. And so I really think this is a thinly veiled attempt by the NFL to avoid negative pr And people talk about Joe at the Combine, right, they don't. They don't want the Combine to be dominated by a TV event. Yeah, yeah, everything you just said I agree with, And at the same time I can I can feel the other side of that point. I

think you're absolutely right. The problem is the combine kind of has become a reward. I mean that's not the intention, obviously, but it's a naturally televised event that does better ratings than some other sports like playoffs. You know, I mean, everybody sits around and watches Rich Eyes and runs the forty. There's gonna be a thousand media members there, and you know, I mean, you don't have to think back that far. Byron Jones sets a world record in the broad jump

and becomes a household name among NFL fans. He was not that when he showed up an Indy And so you think about that kind of spotlight and it's a lot like it's not on the same ol, but it's like getting invited to the green room at the Draft. It's like for the elite players, they put them on TV. They show you running the drills, and it's a TV event. And I mean, I agree with everything Dane said. I think teams, that's what they're there for. But the NFL looks at it as so much more than that because

of how they've monetized every event on the schedule. I mean, every single thing the NFL does is a monetized watch party. At this point, so I get their rationale for not doing it, but yeah, it's just a pain. It's a pain in the butt for these teams because now they just have to work that much harder. And to Dane's point, it's not going to stop them anyway, right, And the Joe Mixon deal, we know the details, you know, we

know the video, we know everything that's going on. But that's not always the case with some of these other players. The details aren't well known, and so they need to find out their circumstances. They want to find out more about the player. Joe Mixon is a player that's been a hot button issue for a while and he will be the next few months. But for some of these other guys, teams need to find out more information about them. And let's be honest, is this rule going to really

prevent anything else from happening? You know, as Joe Mixon not do what he did if he understood that he wouldn't be able to go to the combine. No, it's not going to prevent future things from happening. It's just and I don't disagree with with Dave, because it is you know, it is an event. That's how the NFL looks at it, but I think first and foremost it has to be a job interview and they have to

they're protecting the shield. I get that, but they also have to look out for the thirty two clubs and realize that they need have a job to do, and they're really this rule is hurting them do their job. Yeah, I think. And I'll tell you where I disagree with you on this. Okay, I disagree about hurting the player or that doesn't hurt the play? Does it does? And I you know what, you know, I think that the first, the first opportunity that these players really have to sit down.

You know, we didn't have a chance to sit down with Joe Mixon at the Senior Bowl. You know, this will be this will be a lot of general manager owners, you know, those guys that are involved. This will be their first opportunity to see these guys, or would have been their first opportunity. You know. I think even though it's a fifteen minute, like you say, speed dating, I think that that that type of the type of relationship that that first one meeting can get an owner to say,

you know what, I'm comfortable with this kid. I'd like to bring him back when we have our thirty visits, you know, and they're gonna be people. They're gonna have Joe Mixon off the board, and maybe they have it off him off the board right now because of what they believe. But I also believe that you also need to hear Joe mixon side of the story too, and maybe that Joe Mixon goes from being a guy that's off a board or chat keller or whoever is not

getting to come to the combine. I believe that they deserve that right to explain their side of the story and let somebody have the opportunity to say, you know what, I still don't feel comfortable with them. I don't want anything to do with this guy. You might recall our guy Jeremy Hill. A few years ago. I had a chance to own up for all of his off field stuff. He wrote a letter to like every his GM and

coach in the league. And yeah, I mean, you know, make I don't know, feel how you want to feel. Make your own judgments, but I mean none of this, yeah, none of this is going to stop teams from looking into mixing. So I mean, you would want him to have the chance to talk to his future employers. And yeah,

I think you're right. It does hurt him not to just have first of all that first impression, second of all that access to everybody, because now you got to go to Norman to get or wherever he is Phoenix, you know, right, Yeah, And it means infer that it doesn't you know, it doesn't hurt the player, because it does. You know, it's an opportunity to put your best foot forward and you know, show yourself both you know, not only just in the athletic drules, but in the interview process.

I just meant it. It hurts teams more than it hurts the players in my opinion, you know, because the teams have to do a little bit more work now, where the player still has opportunities to show, you know, a pro days and different things like that. You know, teams are still thirty to thirty two, teams will still be at Oklahoma's Pro Day. So I think it hurts teams more than it hurts the player. But it still does hurt the player. No question. Would you like the

opportunity to ask Joe Mixon questions at the combine? Of course, absolutely you want to. I mean, if you want, if you want to be. Is that a missed opportunity for us in the media as well to get to know Joe Mixon a little bit better? I think so. Yeah. And honestly, you can. I mean we're all we're all pointing the finger at him. Yeah. Where it's a horrible video,

don't get me wrong. You know what, And with how little Mixon has been in the public eye and really been available for comment during this whole thing, I really think the media would take this opportunity. You think back to when Oklahoma was in the playoffs a couple of two seasons ago. They didn't make him available at all,

didn't want him to talk about it. And he doesn't have those restrictions now, and I you know, I think college football writers, I think the media in general would make it a point to kind of grill him basically. And I think it would be lead to see how you'd handle it. And the Combine has these guys every year, Combines pressure. A couple of years ago, I remember man

Ti Teo that was right out that situation. He had to go up to the to the podium and you know, face the firing storm, and that's something that uh, you know, there's a guy every year like that. And you know Noah spense to an extent last year, last year, right, another one. Um, so yeah, there's he would have mixed. It would have been that guy this year where you hear his name calling and all of a sudden you see a flood of media storming towards the podium. So

we won't get that opportunity. Who knows if he'll be available at the Pro day or how that'll be handled by his agent, And so yeah, it's I think bottom line with this rule is I don't really believe in the intent of the rule. Um. I think it makes the jobs harder for all thirty two teams. And I think you know there that's nothing new for the NFL. By the way, several teams that agree. Yeah. Yeah, And and I tell, okay, talk the discussions you've had right

with teams. You know, the discussions you have, and I you know, I mean you and I know a lot of the same guys. I mean I've been around a lot longer, so I know a few more guys than you. But but what's the what's your what's the team's reaction been? We talked about what our reaction is, what's the team's reaction to this, and when I talk to teams about who it isn't at the combine, a lot of times I get the response good because that you know, hopefully

we're hiding him. You know, there's a player from southwest Louisiana that no one really knows about or you know, only four teams the coach told me only four teams went through there this fall. You know, he's kind of hidden. He's not gonna be at the combine. That's good. We might have a you know, a chance to get him late. Uh So most cases that's how those conversations go, but this is completely different because you know, they want to

know more about the player. They want to find out more information, and you know, I I this makes their job harder, and they absolutely agree. Yeah, I just stn't. Like I said, the NFL has made the league off. It's knows to train schedule to Connecticut. They just don't know what goes on here at the club level. Yeah, every day, And I think that's a big I think

that's really a big issue here we speak. I feel confident saying I'm speaking for like the silent majority of team personnel employees who I mean the NFL does their best to not make it about football. That's fair. I mean all across the board. Like I said, everything's monetized, everything's televised. Everything is done with the intent of making money and generating viewers more so than I never believed.

I've said this before, I never believed sitting there in nineteen ninety two that they would ever have the combine on television. I never always thought, you know, and that's and talking about Dave, you said thousand you know media people. I remember when there was like eight Remember a guy like Rick Goslin by the way, happy birthday Goose if you're listening to that birthday. Yeah, and he was one of the eight guys. And it was that that was the way it was. But I it is, it's a

it's a big it's a big deal. Now. The Draft is a huge business. You can tell by the numbers that you know, the reach that we have here on the Draft show. I can't I still can't wrap my head around the fact that the first round of the Draft is a primetime event instead of just you know, Saturday morning to Saturday night and then Sunday morning. Yeah, No, it's it's the draft is a special thing. And you know, we've all we've all learned that we were living that

right now, clearly living that. And I just I just feel I feel badly. I feel badly for the players. You know, the teams. You get around it, the teams get around it, still bad for the players. I'm not gonna go far enough as to say I feel badly well because the players put them in the self in this position. On one hand, yes, you put yourself on this position. On the other hand, like I just, we

all make mistakes. I know for a fact, it's not going to affect anything like it's going to be a little bit harder for these clubs to get the information they want. It's not it's not Joe Mixon's getting drafted, regardless of whether he's at the combine. If he doesn't get draft that I'll be stunned. And so, you know, so you're okay with the rule. I think the rule is disingenuous, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, I guess, is what I'm saying. That's fair.

And I do think Brian did mention something interesting about you know, if a player like Joe Mixon wasn't really on the board or we you know, a team goes into the combine thinking we're not going to draft this guy and I talked to him. But after you talk to him, yeah, you know what, Okay, you know, maybe that interview went a little different than we thought. Yeah, you know, and kids, maybe the kids can be honest

about what happened. Okay, but this is sorry, Dane. Instead of just sending an area scout to the pro day, sure, maybe you also send the director of scouting. Absolutely, just you never know what an opportunity like the combine could trigger. So I do agree that it's disingenuous. I do agree that it's probably not going to change anything. But I do think there is that a little bit of a chance that maybe it could, you know, maybe another team could be in the mix for a Joe Mixon because

of the combine. You have all your personnel there, you have, I mean, there's owners involved, there's general managers involved, there's directors of college scouting and pro scouting. There's guys involved here. This is the NFL, like they're gonna I heard Jim Garrett say that one time about Randy Moss, and I'm well, I'm not talking Well, yes, and he was absolutely right. It's not the boy scouts at the NFL. At the end of the day, if you can play, it doesn't matter.

But my point is, like we're talking about a billion upon billion dollar industry, Like these guys are going to do what they need to do to turn over every stone. If they got to fly a few more people to Norman for Pro Day because of that, or to have a private workout, I mean, how many how many workouts do these guys have with teams and coaches that are not widely publicized. Yeah, oh no, absolutely, that's and you're

right about They will get the job done. It will be a little more inconvenient because you can't just knock it all out of the combine maybe being selfish them because I don't get to ask Joe Mixon question. Yeah, and I mean it's a loss for us because he's one of the most polarizing and interesting second best back on my board. Yeah, agree me too, he I'd like

to know. Yeah, here's the last thing I'll say about this, but with Joe Mixon, he's not going to be drafted based on what a scout thinks or even the director of scouting. He's going to be drafted based on what the general manager thing. Maybe that's why Brown, maybe that's why Brian's harping on this so much, because he knows that he works for a team that has a lot

of leeway in the draft process. Well. And but that's going back to what Brian said about if Joe Mixon's in that room, because if he if you know, there's no guarantee that a general manager will go to the Pro Day and he'll you know, yeah, So if Joe Mixon is getting drafted by your team, he needs to be signed off by the general manager, and his only FaceTime with certain general managers might only be at the Combine.

So it's it's really an interest interesting wrinkle to the Combine this year and how it's going to fully value or a fully play out throughout the draft process. One and done. I will I don't know who knows I say it. I think NFL teams are gonna gonna complain like heck, oh sure yeah, because it's gonna make their job harder. And I think you know it's not it's not worth it, uh, you know, the Combines's job interview.

And I think that's how it should be looked at but it's also a TV event, and the NFL protects the shield at all costs, so you never know. The NFL is too powerful and too stubborn to retract a rule after one year. I bet you it'll it will deal with this for two or three years, and then they'll quietly get rid of it. That would be my gues. I'm gonna ask that question to Stephen Jones on Tuesday when we get there at that Competition Committee meeting. Get

after it. That's what the Hey, there's guys and they're like Ozzy Knewsome people like that, you know, the general manager type guys. I'm with him, though, I mean, they don't don't don't keep me from doing my job. And you're right, day, Well, we'll waste money to fly all over the world. You're absolutely right about that. Does Joe Mixon get picked before one thirty five the DAK pick? Yes, I think so. I agree with both of you, which is again, I'm not gonna lose any sleep over this.

Like it's it is what it is. Yeah, now he might he might go higher. He should go higher if you're just basing on ability, But I can't talk to the guy. Yeah, well, you know I have to fly. Man, I'm mad about this. You can't talk to the guy, but the people who will, Oh, sure, but I'm mad. I'm mad because I want to learn about this guy. I know it's a bad situation, but I want to learn. The film is damn good. Oh yeah, film is damn great. Depends depends on what film you're talking. Yeah, that's a

very good point. You you get flashes of Levion Bell watching him. Yeah, that's he's that type of back. One thing I did want to mention with, you know, with the combine list coming out, Um, just because the players not on the list, you know, the three of those

numbers again, doesn't mean he's not gonna be there. Last year, there were two hundred and fifty three draft picks, thirty eight were non combined guys, So fifteen percent of the tighter the total draft pool last year who were drafted did not go to the combine who there were omissions and oversights, so it doesn't mean anything. And then on the flip side, three hundred and thirty two players were invited last year, one hundred and seventeen Combine guys went undrafted.

So just because you do get a combined invite doesn't mean that you're going to get drafted. Over one hundred will go undrafted this year if we're doing too many favors for programs. Yeah, you know what I'm saying, getting guys in that probably aren't deserving of being in the combine. National they do things their way, NFS, they invite who they want, They take a little bit of input from outside. So yeah, maybe they need to listen a little more. Yeah,

I love when Dane throws shade. Oh it's all right in my book. All right, Hey, when we come back, good discussion about that. Next week, we'll get into the guys that are there at the combine, the guys that aren't at the combine, because we'll just be a few days away from the combine actually start. A matter of fact, we're gonna have draft coverage starting Tuesday, I believe February twenty eighth, and go through that Saturday, so we'll be there every day. We'll have a show from the draft.

The Draft Show will be there every day in any nap it's like we did last year, and hopefully have some people involved and bring you all the update information. So when we come back, we're gonna get a Little Twitter on the twenty So stay tuned. You're listening to the Draft Show from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. With unlimited data from AT and T, you can stream your favorite

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Deslon Tyler. We can help you in Texas. Call two one four nine four one eighty three two one four nine four one eighty three hundred. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Cowboys on the Clock back here at the Draft Show the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian Broadest, Stain Brugler, David Hellman. Hey, guys, before we get this going on Twitter to twenty, I do have to tell you about something that David, I think you're experiencing right now, and you really are a big fan of this product.

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for coming on board with the Cowboys. I would never lie to our listeners, and I'm wearing it right now. Yeah, awesome, It's phenomenal. I always talk about the socks, big fan of the Tommy John socks, but get it all. They got T shirts, underwear, socks, all right, David Hillman, Yes, the segment was created by our great friend Ed K. Hill It is known as Twitter on the Twitter Senator from Florida. I want to try to go rapid fire today. Get these questions in. Yeah, and that's at the Draft show.

I don't want to talk about the Miles Garrett video. It's a week old at this point. We don't need to do that. But Wayne wants to know right there, bro Realistically, I see the pain in Dane's eyes. Realistically, Wayne says, who is a guy or is there a guy that could slip down into the mid range of the draft and prompt you to want to go get him? I think Derek Barnett is the guy that I would point to. He's a Jason Garrett kind of guy. Um, and these passed rushers are gonna fly off the board.

And if you're sitting there at twenty eight and you don't think that your guy's going to get there, maybe you don't like Charles Harris as much, you know, maybe you're not as come for both the guys that will be available in the late first round you want. You really like Derek Barnett. You want to go get him, trade up into the somewhere in the teens. Yeah, I can see that happening. I don't disagree with you there on that because I'm thinking that everybody else that defensive

in spot could fault to you. And I'm talking about McKinley, Lawson, Harris, those guys. I think the guys that are gonna go off early are Garrett Thomas. You're right about Barnett. I mean, I think you're right. I think people are gonna fall in love with him. You like any of those corners? Would you go after any one of those corners? I don't think. I don't think Lattimore is gonna fall No Tabor. You know, I like Tabor quite a bit. He's not a guy I'm gonna trade up for this corner classy

so deep. It's deep, you don't have to move. You can't justify trading up for a corner because I just feel great about a guy I like being there, right, And I don't feel that way about past in corners deep first and second round. I think pass rushers deep at certain pockets. You know, once those first round pass rushers are wiped out, you know, I don't know if you feel comfortable reaching on another guy, So whereat with Corner. I think there's more options. It's a very strong defensive

end class. But in terms of depth in the first rounds, I feel better about Corner. You see either one of those safeties dropping. You see Adams or Hooker because of injury. Maybe there's a shot with Hooker because of the injuries, he won't work out before the combine. That could be an issue with some teams. But and that's one of my latest mock draft. I have Hooker falling to the Browns at twelve. I couldn't see him falling far further than that. That's kind of the floor for him, even

with you. As long as there's no long term effects with the hernius surgery, the laborum As long as there's no long term effects, I don't think Cooker's gonna fall fall start good question, real good draft NERD question right here? Well that was but here, Nick, this is a Dane

Brugler special. Right here. Nick says, Chris Godwin, Zay Jones, Juju Smith Schuster, Isaiah Ford, rank them Ford, Juju, and then I have Godwin and Zay pretty close, but they're very I mean, I think they're very on a similar well, I've got to see I've got a two three on Fod. I think he could be off the board in the second round. Yeah, Juju have more of a third or maybe even a fourth third because of the speed. Probably right right, he just doesn't have it. He's not going

to consistently separate. You might have to keep him in the slot. And I like Godwin and Zay quite a bit, but I don't love them. I think they're both in that three four range. So Ford, I think is a clear cut one there for me. Then probably Juju as a three. And then you know, I know a lot of people like Zay Jones. Yeah, I don't see the first or second round talk. I see more of a third or fourth round guy. Same thing with Godwin. I'm

the same. I have Godwin actually in the second If you asked me to rank him, I would go Godwin, Ford, Shuster, and Jones. That's how I would rank them. So, yeah, I got him more than I do, but I do. I like the big body. I liked it. I like the locker and yeah, and he covers some ground. I like his toughness, like the fact he plays in cold weather, not that he has to play, but you do play in cold weather games, you know, late in the year here with or Washington to Philly giant stuff. You got

to be able to go make plays. This wide receiver class is really in that top one hundred. Yeah, it's really interesting. It's gonna be kind of a you know, what kind of type of receiver do you want? And you know there's not gonna be any type of consensus on these guys. No, Like the defensive ends fascinating, Brian, this one's this one's up your alley. It's from Eric, Like Yuric, I know how much you hate the fact that they don't have a fifth round pick. I hate that.

What and we just talked about the first but just in general where I mean, is there a spot where you feel good about the odds of moving maybe back to get more picks or up for that matter. I don't want to give up. I know people hate when I say this. I don't want to give up the fifth year option because that just helps you in the long run. Yep, it just helps you sit there at twenty eight. Now, if you're sitting there and we don't have the numbers, but somebody be smart and do the

math for me. Just add thirty one basically to the twenty eight and what do you get fifty nine? I did that in my head. Yeah, yeah, lsu lsu guys. And then yeah, and so I'm sitting there thinking though that would you move back in the second round to pick up maybe you grab somebody's early third and grab somebody's fifth that way. I kind of that that's kind of a spot I would, I think though. But Dane is right, and I think we're all kind of seeing the way this drap. Maybe that second round pick is

gonna have some huge value to it. Yeah, I mean as far as a player that you really really want, you know that, that's where I think you have to be careful of saying, Okay, I'm gonna plan. I went back and did a study of Bill Walsh's the Draft, where he would he kept going back in nineteen eighty six, Yeah, where he took Roberts from Alabama, the defense, he kept going back. He went back, he went back. His initial

plan wasn't to go back. His initial plan was a draft like guys like John L. Williams and that crew, and those guys went off the board ahead of him, and then all of a sudden he got a call and he just and the players just kept falling. A matter of fact, you got a call from the Cowboys, and so he just kept getting calls because the players on the board. And eventually Debartlos said, you know you're gonna pick a player. You know you're just gonna be

But that's the way you kind of collect picks. Somebody has to be on the board that you really that they really really cover it, and maybe on the back end of that second round, but maybe there might be a guy that you covered as well, So you have to be a little careful by that. I think one thing to say about that late first round pick, um

that fifth year option is valuable. It doesn't have some value, but it also has some value in trade discussions, right, And so you know a team picking in the early second round that WAPs it up in that late first to get that fifth year option, Oh, you're gonna have to give me something to come get that pick. So that's why I think you can't run now. Yeah, I mean we talk about if a Deshaun Watson or somebody, if a quarterback basically kind of pulls a Teddy Bridgewater right,

he's there where he's not supposed to be. Maybe you could fleece somebody. I'd I'd give up the fifth year option if somebody was willing to overpay the crap out of me, like a next year's one, next year's one, or maybe much. I don't think you're gonna get that, but maybe if I mean another two, if it's a quarterback like David's talking about, maybe I would do it. I would probably do it for I don't think any team's gonna give up an extra one to move up

five spots. Don't kill my dream team. But I think a team with two two's, you maybe pick up a two and a three. I mean, I think that you're gonna hold somebody up for that pick though you're gonna hold somebody up for that twenty eight. Yeah, I mean I think it. What's your what's your level of tolerance? It depends who's there, who's available for me? Yeah, you know, it depends what my board looks like. Im I wiped out? Are there plenty of guys that I want? You know,

is we might have some guys? Yeah, exact my defensive end. That's what will ultimately make the decision for me. Do I feel better with this player or do I feel better passing on these guys available and picking up you know, maybe X and X down the road. So check the teams out when you get the numbers, check the teams out with multiple picks. That's that's where you're kind of, you know, because you really don't want to do next

year's one or next year's picks. You know you really don't, but you because you want to pick in this draft, especially with the depth that it has. I know the Titans have some picks, but they don't need a quarterback, which bums me out. But okay, here's one from Chris's kind of Cowboys centric. But we talk a lot about tight end for this team. Um, he wants to know is that premature given that you've got Witten, Hannah and

swam here and you also got Ricoll. I mean, are we making too much of the potential need for a tight end? That was a mail back question this morning. Oh, because we're talking about Jeff Swains. What I get for

taking the morning off to move? Yeah, and it to me it you know, you have to it depending on the tight end at that position though, I mean not that position, but that who the tight end is because this thing is gonna there's gonna be some tight ends in this draft, you know, I mean, you take that second round pick where you're time had to talk about but or somebody like, I mean, this team's famous for stashing the taking the hurt guy and then moving on

from there. Well, let's talk about these tight ends for a second. I mean, is is Hannah you know? Can you trust him to be health? Yeah? That's the big Can you trust him to be a reliable number two tight end? If the question was asked, could Swain be

a guy that Swain is a blocker developed. He's never gonna be the physical specimen of Jason Witten, right, but he does have to down the field skills, he can catch the football and he and when they did use him as a blocker through the first twelve weeks of this season, it's pretty the first to Cleveland, right, Yeah, that's yeah, yeah, Week ten, yeah, week ten, yeah, exactly. Jason Witten's entering what age thirty five season, and I don't see a number two tight end on this roster.

I don't I And at the end of the day, if you get one of the better guys or a better guy. I don't think that Hannah or Swaim is a or Gathers is enough to stop you from doing that if it really seems like the best option. And I'll be honest, Gathers is a wild card because we haven't seen him. I mean, maybe you guys have seen him in proc. I know, I know that. I know this for a fact. I know talking to some folks about him. He was one of Tony Romo's favorite targets

on the Scout team. He'd be my favorite two if he was that big. He wore he just wore them out throwing. Romo wore him, wore them out throwing the football to him. So we'll see. That would be exciting. We'll see. Here's here's one from d Ware. I don't think it's that d Ware, but a little Ohio State action. Tell me. Tell me about Curtis Samuel Dane fit and Grade. He's the East Coast Christian McCaffrey. He can do a

little bit of everything for you. You want to line him with the backfield, put him out in the slot. He's actually listed as a wide receiver on the Combine roster, which I great him as a running back too. He averaged seven point nine yards per carry over his career, So I'm not going to take him out of the back field. But I think the moment you label him as a wide receiver or a running back, I think

you're missing the point. I mean, he's both. He can do everything that you want either of those positions to do. Out of the slot, out of the backfield really explosive. He's basically in a more explosive version of theoretic it does an exceptional job with the Lions as a receiver out of the backfield like that. So I think Curtis Samuel Christian McAffrey probably need to give him in the first round. Curtis Samuel is the guy you get in the second round if you miss out on McCaffrey. Yeah.

I actually had a third round grade on him, but I created him as a running back, and I have McCaffrey ahead of him. No, I do, because I think that there's really more you can do. But you're right, I don't think that's a I don't think that's a far off comparison at all. I will the thing I liked. I didn't think he was smooth running routes. That's I mean when I watched him. He looked like a running back trying to run routes. Right, That's where I was thinking, well,

how do I develop that? And then and all of a sudden, they hand him the ball in the backfield and I'm running, watch him hit the corner, run over, somebody make a cut. I'm like, wait, why he's not Why is he not a running back? He's the best player on that Hart State offens this past year. Yeah, he was the best player and center. You hate the center.

I know they didn't give him the ball enough. I mean, Curtis Samuel, if they gave him the high volume touches of a Christian McCaffrey, he would have been in the Heisman discussion. I really believe that he's that type of talent. So, no, he's not being a homer. Samuel is a top fifty pick in his draft. If you want to get Curtis Sammy, you better have a top fifty pick. Follow me on this, Well, it won't matter if that's the case. But if you had him, you had him cleaned, You had him clean

two yes, clean, too clean too. Everything you're saying and everything I've seen him him with my own eyes tells me great player. I don't know what the Cowboys would do with him. Yeah, that's fair. I mean he's not replacing Terrence Williams. He's not that guy. Nou and you have Zeke and you can I mean, you can get another Lance Dunbar with less than a top fifty pick. Right,

you have a you have a backups. They if they totally win another direction with running backs, if they totally just got rid of every every they didn't sign back McFadden Morris, they moved on from who would you want to be the backup running back to Ezekiel Eliot out of this draft Joe Mixon. Ah, oh, it would love you, man. It wouldn't surprise me. I really really wouldn't. I really do. I don't want to go that down that rabbit hole again. But you know we're not. I won't make you do that.

I answer the question. If you can get him in the third or fourth round, you know, God, I love that. Just give me, give me Darren McFadden on a very cheap deal, and then draft me another Darius Jackson in like this. By the way, the scouts are still miffed by that Darius Jackson did. They should be scouts are miffed when especially they look at their free agent lists now and the players they could have moved on from,

especially if they're not going to bring back. Correct me if I'm wrong that they did that for Randy Gregory. They got rid of him to put Randy back on the roster, right, Yeah, and he was around for two weeks and now he's gone for you year. I hate it so much, Um, Mike, how about one more Dave if you got it? Okay, Uh, it's too soon to talk about Tim Williams, right, we don't know anything more about him. Tim Williams is working out here in Dallas when I understand, Oh yeah, yeah, I'm gonna I think

you sit to Michael Johnson speed school. Yeah yeah, I'm gonna shelve him because we just we've talked about him before. We don't have any new information to share. Sorry, justin ask again at the combine one of the better better pass rushers defensive end Alabama been talent, Yeah, no doubt about it. And we will learn about why he's probably not going to go in the top ten in the coming weeks. I was speaking of Gregory, yeah, exactly. Um, I get to ask him some questions well, all right, well,

well I'll just ask it. I mean, it's it's tough, I know, but Tim Williams. Yeah, and then you got your Joe mix it. I mean, which one of those scares you less? Basically is what mix? Well? And right now there's more unknown and that's I feel. It's make sure it's three years removed or going on three years right now from what happened. But we don't even have a full picture on what we're scared of with Tim Williams. Correct. All I know is scared of what we just saw

happen to this team for the last two years. Yeah, and with Tim Williams, there's where there's smoke, there's fire, and there's been a lot of smoke. You can go back to when he was recruited. He went to high school in the LSU campus and LSU backed off and they said, I don't really know if we want this guy Alabama's I covered Tim Williams recruitment. I was like one of the first reporters to kind of get to

know him when he started getting offers. So would you think I thought it was weird that a kid who grew up in the shadow of LSU's stadium literally, Wow, the University High Yeah, University High on campus. Wow. And I mean nice guy, but that was five six years ago. There's a pass rusher though. Yeah, but there's just a lot we don't know. Why did he only play x amount of I mean he only played like he was under thirty snaps a game as a senior. Yeah, under

thirty snaps a game. Didn't like the rotation in Alabama? No, I mean I think he does okay against a run. He's not terrible. Yeah, but why is he only playing under you know, is it an intelligence issue? Can he not handle the responsibilities? I mean, there's a lot of things that we need to figure out. What Tim Williams Uh, it really makes his draft stock really volatile. Yeah, all right, say what And to your point, Mixon's got the worst, most horrible baggage of anybody in this draft that we

got a video. And yet you're saying, you know, one time, isolated incident long enough, long ago enough that it doesn't bother you, it bothers me what happened. But I think that I think that he's paid his time for this and now he's gonna have to interview for a job. And that's what everybody's going to bring up on him. I think I think that is a I mean, it's a decent discussion. Is you know, oh, we won't get there again. No, I'm ji, But for all we know,

Mixon will never be in trouble again. I mean, he hasn't had an issue since then, Whereas I think I think that liner issue. But yeah, I think that's the I think that's the I think that's the thing that will haunt him. But as long as he played. But and he will be a PR nightmare for whoever takes him on, or Tim Williams, who seems like a significantly less of a PR nightmare. But you could wind up in another Randy Gregory situation where you don't even I

don't need to go down that road again. Just this kid, from what I understand, can't stop. I'm glad that I don't have to make these types of decision. Yes, thanks a lot, they're folks on We really appreciate you. To day. Coming back from here from the s w B s WBC Mortgage Studios, Dave Hellman has another little thing for us to do, So we'll stay tuned. We'll be right

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White dot com. Is that Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Draft Showy back here at the SWBC Morgan Studios with the Draft Show, and thanks to everybody out there that has been listening to our podcasts. You know, this opportunity we have. We love doing this every week. It's something that I really look forward to on. David and Dane look forward to it as well. The interaction we have with the fans, and you know, we just appreciate everything you guys do

for us, the Twitter questions back and forth. It makes our job a lot of fun too, and so highlight of my week. Ye first, but again, thank you very much for going on. And even I go and read the comments and stuff too. If you put comments on the podcast, you get it that way. I go back and read all that stuff. And you know, we'll try and make this thing better anyway we can so you guys can enjoy it. So all right, David, I'm gonna give the last fifteen minutes of the show to you.

I appreciate that you tell us exactly what you're gonna do with this. So and you know, we always say the draft process is incredibly fluid. It changes, the names rise and the names fall, and we're not talking about somebody that we will be talking about in a month and a half after we get back from the combine. Yeah, one of those deals or we're talking a lot about somebody we won't be talking about r I'll it's burned into my brain. Braxton Miller was a great example of this.

That's a fair point, and I mean that's no disrespect to him. He was still a high draft pick, but you know it probably talked about him too much. Other receiver Les Yeah, yeah, I want to know y'all watch the film, y'all are the nerds we you know, sitting here heading into the combine? And I got a few positions in mind, specifically tailored for the cowboys obviously. Who who? Who's getting too much hype right now? Who are we talking too much about it? Like right, I just wrote

down Dane, said Barnett a minute ago. The Tennessee defensive end Charles Harris is a guy that we're hearing a lot about these days. Tack McKinley. Tack McKinley is Lawson, Carl Lawson. Yes, absolutely, so we know that. Who Who were we not talking about that? Y'all think maybe we should be specifically when it comes to pass Rusher, Well, kind of twist us for a second. I think we might be talking too much about tack McKinley because he's not gonna be an option at twenty eighth. Yeah, I

mean I think he might be able to. We might see a Vic Beasley type of rise after injury at all. And okay, we'll say from the combine, but I think the combine McKinley is gonna run a four or five. Oh, there's no doubt. I think, yeah, ten yards split's gonna be. Yeah. Stand that's actually a good point. So maybe in the grand scheme of things, we're not talking about him enough because people are talking about him as an option for

the Cowboys and he could go way high. Right, we're talking too much about him as an option for the Cowboys, not enough as a top fifteen, top twenty type guy. Okay, you know the Falcons took Vic Beasley in a top ten and was looked at as a while. Yeah, but you know, with his sack production this year, I think, you know, it proved to be an okay pick, and I think Tach McKinley could be in a similar type of type of thing with He's gonna test really well,

he's a very good athlete. Uh, he could end up going a lot higher than you know, we were talking about now and not even sniff the twenties, let alone the Cowboys at twenty eight. Yeah, I don't disagree with

that at all. I think that to me, he's a guy everybody's I've always kind of thought of him being at twenty eight, because even more now with the injury, I thought about that, the injury is the wiy but and then and then Lawson, I kind of thought he was always going to be that guy too at twenty eight. So I can understand, especially when people put him in these mock drafts. You know, that's the question I always get, Oh, is this a good guy? You know? Is this you know? Well? Yeah,

I mean this is a good guy. I mean that's yes, he's a good yeah. But I you know, I don't know if we're talking enough, and I don't know if they would do it. I don't know if they would do it at all. But you know, with Charlton, you know, Taco Charlton, and I know his name gets mentioned, but but I don't think it's as strong. I don't think it's as strong as you know. I mean, I'm hearing rumors about, Oh, I really like the Harris kid from Missouri, you know, Basham as a kid that you brought up.

I mean, but I'm not saying at twenty eight, second round, second round type of guy. I mean twenty but we're really not talking about those guys. Twenty eight is the pick that everybody fixates on. But I mean, holler at me if there's somebody for you know, are my Senior Bowl guy Willis out of Kansas State? Yeah, I mean people were talking about him as a fourth round pick. Is that that seems low to me? Like should you beat?

I mean I got him in the third, and I know there's some cons I know there's some questions about him having a third as well. A guy who I don't think we're talking enough about who we will be probably talking a little bit more about after the combines. Taias Bowser from Hugh He said that, you said that, Yeah, I think he's gonna test really well. You know, played basketball two seasons at Houston. We know he's a good athlete.

The way that he was used at Houston, who was just out of his paint the picture forreston On Bowser. You know with Houston, he lined up on the edge, but he didn't. They didn't let him, you know, Pin his ears back and just get after the quarterback, which he did at the Senior Bowl, right, and he showed that athleticism. He was off, he was dropping in coverage, you know, playing the run, playing contain. They didn't let him.

They let What they've tried to do at Houston was blitz with Stephen Taylor up the gut or from different gaps, create that interior disruption and to filter the runs outside where you know, that's where Bowser and the other guys who clean up. So I think once Bowser has a chance to go to the Combine Test, really well, he's gonna be in that late somewhere in that second round conversation might be in that late round mix for the Cowboys. Seem as an end or as a I think he's

an edge player. I you know, he could play, he could stay with Reddick like what we've seen with him Reddick. I think it's more of a stand up guy. You know, he could play inside in a three to four Bowser to me, I want him rushing the passer. I want him trying to, you know, bend around the corner and affect the pocket. And I think that's what he does best. Yeah, where do we stand on Dwayne Smoot right now. See,

now you're starting to mention names. And I know I was a lot higher on Smooth than than Dane was. I don't see him. I mean, if there's there's better options. Now you look at Rivers, you know, you look at Basham. I mean, now you're talking about it, you know the Houston. I mean, I mean you're talking about guys. Where do you have Smooth? The third? I mean the Ivan the third? Yeah, and see, and I think that's where initially I thought

he was a much higher player. But then when you start looking at who else is on the board in the second round, that's the other thing. He's there, there's better players than him as a rusher on the board. That's going to be those types of game A lot of it's a numbers game, you know, there's so many powers. I have eighteen pass rushers on my board that within the first three rounds. I mean, it's just it's a loaded position, and so these guys get bummed down just

because of a numbers game. Let me ask you this, and I mean we brought up Barnett a couple of times. Now I'll extend this to other positions too. If you can think of them, But are there any guys that we're just kind of writing off as non options that maybe that's too soon to say, Like I mean Barnett potentially falling down. They won't be there, No, because they will be there, and we assume here in early February that they're they't be there at eight. But we saw

that happen with a long draft process. Yeah, it is a long draft process. Well, I mean, let's look at it. I think you mentioned the corners. I think Marshawn Lattimore, we feel good, is a top ten guy to twelve guy. But aside from that, would it really surprise you if any of these other corners would be there? Tabor, White, Moreau? But would it would it surprise you if any of them if all those corners aside from Lattimore were availablet twenty eight? I mean, would I be surprised? Yeah, I

would be surprised for a couple of those names. Yeah, I'd be surprised on Tabor. I don't know if I would be surprised on White or Moreau. But Humphrey or Jones is another one too. Sidney Jones is another one. I have every name that you just said is a name that not Humphrey. But every name you just said is a name that I've seen in the mark somewhere in the Cowboys range. Yeah. Yeah, I think these corners are so so different. There's something you could pull holes

on all of them. And so it wouldn't shock me if Tabor's the fourth corner drafted, the fifth corner drafted, somebody's gonna fall in love with the guy more than Tabor, right, I mean, could you look at skiing too, Humphrey. Yeah, you're right about that. He's big, he's long, he's physical, and he's a speecher. He can really run. Yeah, so I think Marlon Humphrey is going to go you know, higher, and that could push a Tabor down, That could push

a Sydney Jones down. These corners are really really wild cards in the first twenty five picks. So aside from Lattimore, it really wouldn't surprise me if any of these guys would be available at twenty eight. I do like I would watch your Witherspoon guy the other day. I do like him. He's a good player. He's a good player. He started playing football and senior year in high school boys he competitive yeah. I like him. Interesting to see what he runs. Yeah, is it a four or five? Eight? Yeah?

Where can he get lower than that? Well, there's some guys in this thing that Yeah, we had had that experience with Freeman last night. They're running back from a couple of different running back long horns running back. Yeah, yeah, extend and you know, same conversation. And I was actually thinking about this when you brought it up. I don't get the feeling. I don't have the same feeling on the receiver repecking order. And that's that's where I turned

to third after pass rusher in cornerback. Me personally, I don't know how fans so guys were not talking about that. We should be talking or maybe we're talking. You know, the dad's right about the cow kid Hanson. Hanson, He's right about him someone and you know what, Okay, give me let me ask you this. If you had to take if you had to take Hanson or Cup, you had to take Hanson. It's not it's not a comparison for me. Hands is a much better athlete. Um, I

think he's bigger. I think you know, they kind of have similar backgrounds because his hands and started his career at the end. You don't think you don't think Cup could play in the PAC twelve. Oh no, no, no, I like couple a lot. I just think I just like Hanson much more. I think Cup's a solid second round guy. I think he I think he's best in the slot where he can give hands in the first don't she I have him as a one two. Uh. You know he's somewhere in the top forty. So you're

hearing much about Chad Hanson out there. No, yeah, here you go. I just told you when. Yeah, I think besides Mike Williams and uh, Corey Davis. Okay, and Mike Williams is the name again. Going back to my other point, it's like you can people assume you can write him off the list, right, and I think that's fair. I agree. Other than that Corey Davis, I'd include Corey Davis. It's unfortunate for him that he's going to be out with the ankle, won't be able to compete at the combine um,

so you know that will work against him. But as long as he gets healthy and there's no long term effects, so be shocked if he gets outside the top twenty. Why is nobody talking about the Syracuse kid because he played at Syracuse. No, don't do that. I like him as a deep threat. Um, do you like him? I did really put him put him in the third Okay, you like him more than I do. Why don't you like him? I don't do great for me to say the name correctly. I was wondering why you didn't say it?

It tau Yeah, something like that. Yeah, I always screw it up. But he I know my friend out there, mighty is just jumping through her she listens. She's a Syracuse grad. This is a player who you're up there in Boston. She's listening right now. She's jumping through the radio. Fifth year, Syracuse gets your transfer from Maryland and he goes to Syracuse and no one really he wasn't on the NFL radar. Yeah, but he put himself in the NFL radar with his production this past season. It'll catch

a football now. Yeah. I think he's he can get the deep ball, he can locate, he can high point. I trust him at the top of routes. I just don't know, um what he can do as an underneath target. The Senior Bowl, I was hoping for a little bit more from him. He didn't. He didn't do enough for me at the Senior Bowl. I like him on day three, as you know, in the fifth round range. But I did not see a top one hundred guy like you. I said, I thought this guy was a finisher. I

really did. I mean something I put in my notes and at home run hit her. He's six, he's six one, he's one hundred and ninety eight pounds, and he's like four or five middle four or five guy. But you watch him play. He'll take his route inside. He's got some toughness, catch slants, ends, you know, he'll do those types of thing. I saw a guy with a with you know, with the quarterback situation not being great. Yeah, it's not a pretty high catch radius there. That's Dino

Wavers up there. Yeah, yeah, he'll he knows how to move the ball around. You like better him or M A and M Kid. Well, I'll take I'll take Syracuse all day on that one. You're on me about that A and M kid. They it's you. You don't like him at all? No, no, no, I initially did Reynolds. Yeah. I don't like Reynolds. And that's why see I started off watch like in Reynolds and all of a sudden, now it's like all these names like Henderson, Zay Jones, darbos Smith. I mean, all these guys came up as

a player. I like him a lot. You have Darbo in the third two three. If you looked at our Darius Stewart yet Alabama, yeah I did. I didn't like him as much. I like him. He's a two three for me as well. These this the day two receivers this year are tough to separate. He's kind of a he's kind of all over the places a player. He is. He was a high school quarterback the jet sweep and they tried to get the ball in his hands or they could, and you know he's he's a high school quarterback,

like a reckless player, and he he is. He's he flails a lot, flailing. Yeah, that's what I mean by reckless. Yeah, and that's fair. There's nothing tight to his game. He'll get better, He'll get two three. Yeah, he's a two three if you if you think back to last year, better than Westbrook. No, Westbrook's more of a home run hitter. I've got him into Westbrook, Oklahoma, by the way, they had thirty four and sixty seven last year, and we spent a lot of time talking about what a great

spot that was to pick a receiver. You're you feel I mean, like, like listening to y'all talk, it sounds like you feel better about these guys even with later picks. I think they could get a guy that can help him. Yeah, yeah, how really do how late? Though? That's I mean hick threes somewhere in the nineties. Who all do you have in the in the fourth round? Like Taylor? Would that be a consideration? I've got him a third in the

fourth I have well, like a three to four. I have Noah Brown from Ohio State, Bucky Hodges Virginia Tech. So you don't like Bucky Hodges is a tight end. He's not a tight end. That's what I'm saying. Everybody's asking me, like Bucky Hodges tight end. I haven't seen him play tighten. Doesn't have a tight end body, and he doesn't play tight end at Virginia Tech. Yeah, he's listed at tight end as a roster and that's the

only place he plays tight end. Yeah. Um, so he's I mean, he'll be listed at tight end, probably get the combine, but he's not a tight end. This is exactly what I wanted because we just got roughly I don't know, ten new names for guys that were not I mean, you've heard the names, but they're not you're your mission accomplish, David Hellman and just I mean, I just know for a fact we'll be talking about somebody in Oh no, we will in April that we're not

talking about right now. Okay, well that's all the time we have today. I want to thank everybody out there for weeks combine. Yeah, two weeks to combine. We'll have a show next Thursday. Let's getting eleven am. Make sure you're checking out all Dane's work on CBS Sports dot com. He does a podcast too with Jeff Kavanaugh Tae. Yeah, trust the tape. It's also a good little listen. I was on it last week. Make sure you're checking that out.

I know that Jeff and Dane would appreciate that. Make sure you're looking at David helm and he's coming up with a lot of really cool stories too. We're in our free agency series. We're about to be done with that, and then we're about to get into the roster a bit for the Cowboys that it would be cool. So all good there, But for our executive producer, Keke Garrison for also for Ed K. Hill, for Derek Eagleton, Taylor

Starner for always pushing our stuff out. We want to thank you guys for joining us and we'll see you this time next week. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club m