Draft Show: LIVE @ The 2017 NFL Combine - Day 4

Cowboys dot Com. I'm Brian brought us along with Dane Burgler from CBS Sports, longtime member of the Draft Show, David Hellman of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and a member of the Draft Show as well, Ken Garrison, executive producing tonight, and we welcome you to this uh final show. Like I said, very interesting day when you have workouts. It was a day where records were broken, and on the field records were broken. Various forty yard dashes, vertical jumps,

broad jumps, you name it. Athletes were on display today and we'll get into that. We'll also get into some twitter on the twenty like we always do. I always encourage you to get your questions in at at the Draft Show. David Hellman will handle that. Kent Garrison monitors the count, the account and so that's our way of

interacting with you. We have no phone as we haven't had all week, but we will do that Twitter on the twenty and then we'll get into David Hellman spent two hours today with Jerry Jones, and if you're a Cowboy fan, you definitely want to be a stick around for this. Dave got some quality time with the president, the owner, president, general manager, some of his thoughts on the draft, what the Cowboys might and might not do.

Dane Burgler and I will try and make sense. Will be the jury whisper if if we can be, I don't know. I don't know. If you're gonna have to whisper on this, We're gonna talk. We got I got something good draft related from Jared. That's why I want to say, I don't know. Sometimes you have to. Jerry is one of those guys that I've always felt like as a hard time and this is gonna sound funny lying. So if you ask him a good question, he'll tell

you he'll give you a good answer. So I believe Dave got some good stuff from the two hour meeting today and that will help us with this, UH to kind of put a both on things here. In Indianapolis, and guys, I do want to get into just the fact that the how these workouts went today, I personally, you know, I love when guys run fast. I love when they jump high. I love when they jump far. I love when they do shuttles. I love when they

just work out. And you know, I saw some times today that we're astounding, and then I saw some guys that we've watched on tape that weren't so astounding that maybe that maybe this is what they are speed wise, you know, And and so I want to get into that with you, dame, but I want to always get your observation first about it. And you know, you could talk about Ross or the tight ends or whatever you saw the quarterbacks, whatever you like to visit with about

your observation from today. Well, we have to start with Ross uh setting a new uh you know, combine record according to NFL Network the times they use with the four two two forty yard dash. You know, he was flying. I'm not sure his feet ever touched the ground. It was pretty impressive to see him go like that, especially considering he stumbled and came up lame at the end. That that hammy, So you know, we knew he was fast. Uh, you know, obviously that confirms it. Now is he going

to all of a sudden rise up boards because of that? No, you know, this is not how it works. I tweeted this out, but his medicals are far more important than anything he would run in the forty yard dash. We know he's fast now obviously that that'll help him, you know, a four two times like that. But I'm still interested in the medicals. We don't know what's going on there yet. He needs shoulder surgery in March. He has the past

knee issues that will be the deciding factors. You know, microfracturer didn't want to you know, I hate using that word, but it's it's scariest word exactly. So with John Ross, much more to it than the four two, And then plenty of the receivers stood out. I think Chris Godwin from Penn State good film or he has a good film. You know, we came in with an already favorable opinion of him, but his workouts were phenomenal. I didn't expect those numbers. I didn't expect that four four two in

the forty yard dash. He was the only receiver two hundred pounds or more to hit such a hit that number. There's a couple of receivers that were faster than him, Ron Ross, Curtis, Samuel, few others, but Godwin was the only one two hundred pounds or more to hit that four four two mark or lower. So I'm pressed by him. He also had good jumps thirty six inches in the vert ten six and abroad four oz in a short shuttle, which is an outstanding number for him, so eager to see.

I haven't seen his three cone yet, but I'm sure it was. If it matches those numbers, heck of a day for Godwin. Zay Jones, kind of continuing on that momentum from the Senior Bowl, another one who you know, he's a good test case because when you watch him on film, he rarely goes vertically one hundred and fifty eight catches this year, only four when thirty five yards

or more. But sometimes the product of the offense. You can only show teams on film which you were asked to do, what plays were called, what routes you're ass to be run. And so for Zay Jones, I think he you know, we don't see it on tape, but he came here and showed he is a phenomenal athlete,

and that showed with his workout numbers. Thirty six and a half inch vert four four five forty yard dash over eleven feet and abroad if you get over eleven feet in the broad jump, it's a phenomenal blows of numbers. So Zay Jones, I thought, only helped himself from the Senior Bowl, and it's gonna make people go back and look at that film a little bit. Uh, you know, a player I initially thought, just based on the film, third,

fourth round, after the Senior Bowl, after the combine. I mean, you have to believe that he cemented himself somewhere in the top seventy five range. Just really impressive what he's done just from January up until now. Perfect example of why the draft process is so important for a guy

like that. Yeah, and we'd you know, I know, on my board, and we'd had this discussion about Godwin before, you know, and I felt like that he was really a solid second round player, you know, and that mix of guys and you know, Dave, we had some guys though that that you know, that didn't really run very well, that you know, that might be that second round consideration.

You know we talk about you know with cup you know, and what we saw with him and he yeah, I saw that he ran poorly, But like does that bother you?

Well care? Well? No, I mean it really, I mean I know the tape I expected him to be and Dan correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I expected him to be better than a four six two man that maybe you maybe you didn't, you know, I was thinking time to work for the combine, get ready be be maybe a four or five maybe what maybe what Chris Godwin was a four or five three guy from what I saw, you know, from the times, I wasn't expecting to four six two. Does that influence me? No,

because you can watch the tape. But I guess what I'm trying to say is I think some people in some draft rooms now are gonna go, well, he's a four to six player, but he's a better player than that. That's what I That's what do people? You think people will And I've been in draft rooms where all of a sudden, is it because he's a white guy, Like, well, no, no, I don't think it's I don't think it's hey, No, no,

straight up you're not lying. I don't. I don't. I'm not like and I laughed in a way because you're right. I'd be like, you'll say, oh, he's just a white guy. Yeah, exactly, And that's probably be the wrong way to think about it. But I will say this though, I didn't expect to force And maybe when he goes to Eastern Washington, maybe people roll up that way the time will be better. But I didn't expect that from him all the way back in January. And I'm a giant, I'm a Cooper

Cup fanboy, right, I love he's awesome. His tape is awesome. He was great at the Senior Bowl. All the way back in January. I heard the player comparison of Jarvis Landry, and yeah, I think it's I think it stacks up perfectly. Like, I don't expec I never thought he would be a burner. That's not his game, right, And I think it confirms what most people thought that he's not truly an outside guy. You want him to slot. That's where he's best, where you know he doesn't have to go in a straight line.

He can manipulate routes, uh leverage defenders and create spacing on his own. But you know what that forty yard dash doesn't show is he has vacuum hands. Yeah, and that's something I think so at four six two, I don't know. I'm not very surprised by it. He's not over. It's funny. You're funny. You say that because I asked you that, and you're kind of you kind of both palms up and be like, hey, that's what he is. Yeah, Joey Boss, that's true. How about Isaiah Ford though? Four

six one? Yeah? See, was that a little bit different for you though? Because now we're talking about like, to me, Godwin Hansen, cup Ford, Westbrook? Did he Westbrook? He didn't even work at at all. They're basically fifteen receivers going in the second round. That's how it feels because there's so many guys and I'm trying to separate him. That's what I'm trying to do. I was gonna say that when you led this off as yesterday we talked about the log jam, like, did anything get cleared up for

you today? I see ran really well? Yeah, Darbo, yeah, Darbou Ran Well. I was hoping that Smith Schuster from USC You know me, I'm a cheerleader boy for USC he did well, yeah, he don't know, he did. I mean he did for that. I mean, you know, even Mike Mayock is like, oh no, that's a good time, like five, you know, four or five four, you know it was. It was a good time for him thoughsolutely. But I was kind of hoping maybe I was, like I said, I was cheerleading for a couple of guys.

I was hopeful that the cup would you know, would have run if he had ran a four to five four, I think I would have felt better about that. But you know, I guess it is what it is, and that in that regard, though, how about the guys like you know, with Henderson, you know, Taylor, some of those guys, how did that? How did that shake out for you

as well? All right? Thought Henderson had an excellent day for a player who you know is a solid two hundred pounds with four four six thirty six in verse ten eleven abroad, Um, I thought he confirmed what we already knew that he's a very good athlete, a guy who uh cannot only go deep, but on the underneath stuff he can be a threat after the catch, catches the ball, Welton Stride. He's another guy that's in that that second round mix, and that that's really gonna make

it tough when we try to differentiate these receivers. It comes down to what kind of receiver do you want? And that's you know you're looking for a specific type of receiver. That's when you can try and separate him. But I think Carl Carlos Henderson confirmed what we knew. The same thing with Taywan Taylor. Uh it confirmed we already knew he's you know, they belonged somewhere on that Day two mix. Come about Gibson, we'd kind of talked

about Gibson from West Virginia. Right, There's a guy when you watch him play so many vertical routes, he throws a four or five zero at you. I mean, is that? I mean maybe we were expecting a little bit. I know, I was expecting a little bit more there come out and claim that you're gonna win the island. Yeah yeah, I mean yeah in four or five flats a pretty damn good time. But not no for a guy that every time you watch him on tape, it's a vertical

not shot down the field. Yeah, when you're claiming that you're gonna set an all time record for the forty that you can't view that as anything but this I think a big part of it is just big twelve defenses. That's That's one of those things that is uh it really kind of it can be deceiving. I mean we talk about you know, we'll talk about Adam Sheheen here in a little bit different two. You know, like how does that well, big twelve defenses, That's that's part of it.

How does that you know, match up with you know, and that was a big question last year with guy like Corey Coleman from Baylor facing big twelve defenses. Same thing with Gibson, where you know, if he's just a four or five athlete at four or five, oh so, I mean, you know, high four fours love four fives. Chad Hanson for me, I thought he helped himself, I mean, not helped himself with confirmed what we thought four or

five or three and the forty yard dash. But you kind of have him as a guy that might be a one two on your board there because yeah war one right, because he didn't. I think he's more of a somewhere in the top fifty Okay. So you know, if I'm at the end of the first round and I really want a receiver, he's the guy I'm considering. But I think he's more of an early day two guy. I think you saw in his drills just how he

can manipulate his athleticism very he controls his gears so well. Sure, you know, he might not be that explosive guy who just gonna, you know, take the top off a defense. But the way he can control his gears and mix in different things, that's why he makes him such a elusive route runner, keeps defenders off balance. So I thought chied Hanson helped himself with a solid time with the

four or five. Three. How about the quarterbacks that through today? Yeah, and I had a chance to, uh, and you were in on the drills. You got to sit in on the first drill the first talked. I talked to a scout buddy, and I asked him, Okay, which which one of these quarterbacks was the best? You know, I saw these quarters, which one did the best? He said it was Deshaun Watson just in terms of armed talent, uh,

putting the ball where it needed to be. He said it was pretty clearly Deshaun Watson, who had the best day to day just throwing the ball, uh and something else that you saw with him was kind of what you would expect, I guess from a guy who you know, based on what we know leaderships kind of quality. Shaun Watson was the guy, you know Ralph hitting the guys on the butt, you know, telling guys O get this,

this and this. I mean, it's just that's an innate, you know, skill that he has that really carried over today. And you better believe scouts are watching that. I mean, the DAK comparisons are just too stupidly obvious not to make. And I honestly, and you know, I don't know where he goes, but that's that's got a factor into it. Just that that it factor, that leadership factored all of

that stuff. And you know, whatever his talent level is, I bet he'll get drafted above it, whether that means he's back into the first round, he'll get drafted higher than that, or if he's a third round guy, he'll he will be pushed up because his intangibles or that you think people will look at him better than Trubisky. It's possible. Sure, we won't have a consensus, there will not be a concessor will there be at least a few teams that think that. I think that's very possible.

I think Mitch Trubisky had a good day too. He was, yeah, polished talking to this. He said that Trubisky was number two in that pecking order. Um, and so you know it was it maybe as impressive, as impressive as Watson, but he still had a solid day. And you know, we talked about how these quarterbacks it's just there's no way to know, but the intangible factor is so huge.

And you talked to Aaron Rodgers. You talk some of these quarterbacks about what makes a good quarterback, they'll explain to you that majority of it, you know, seventy five percent is between the years. It's hard, it's passion, it's you know, those things that you can't really gauge by a forty yard dash or just watching film. I mean, it's really that those innate qualities that not everyone has.

And Shaun Watson has it. And if you're picking i mean, you know that Andrew lux of the world and the Cam Newton's like the super Freaks is one thing, right, But if you're picking between two guys you don't feel great about or don't know about. Give me the three or four year starter award winner, national title winner who carried a program on his shoulders for several years over the one year guy. Every day. I thought a guy that looked really comfortable. By the way An e Lets

gets your plot, I thought a guy looked comfortable. Date was and you've talked about him as a possible day three guy maybe gets into the day two area. Was Nate Peterman from Pittsburgh. He's the one guy that looked comfortable dropping. Everybody else is such a shotgun scheme specific type quarterback. He looked like the one guy that when they and that's what the combine is, you started the line, you drop and you throw and and it's not shotgun. They don't pitch the ball and you stand there and

make throws. He was the one guy to me that because he does that at pit did he look the most comfortable right throwing the football. And that's what makes I think him an easy cell is because he is so well versed in a pro style scheme. There's not a big projection there, and I still have questions about his downfield accuracy as a decision making. But I think you're you're absolutely right about just how comfortable he is in his three five seven step drops, you know, load fire,

he can do all that, right. But what I was gonna say before is Jonathan Allen came through today talking. He said to Shaun Watson, easily is the best competitor he's ever faced. Yeah, now, I mean this, Jonathan Allen obviously saw him twice in two epic games, right, you know, to decide the national title. But uh, you know he plays in the SEC. He's seen plenty of talent. He played you know, he sing Dak Prescott, right, he singled out the Shawn Watson said, it's the best competitor he's

ever faced. Kind of talk about the tight ends here before we go to our first break though. You know, we we we had a group that just was outstanding when it came to just you know, the flying part of these Uh. You know, when you got a guy like O. J. Howard, you know who is uh you know, two hundred and six almost sixty six, two hundred and fifty one pounds and runs a four five one. You know, I didn't expect him to run four five one. But man, what a heck of a what a heck of a

move by him pulling that off today. And you know, I think the we had two tight ends come in over eleven feet on the broad which is just it's ridiculous. There's only been so many people at the Combine and combine history that I've gotten over eleven feet in the broad jump. We had two tight ends do it, and David and Joku and Bucky Hodges. I mean Bucky Hodges to me, he's more of a receiver. But regardless, boy, Bucky Hodges look bad getting in the stance today when

he had to play in What do I do? Yeah? What do I? How do I put my feet? You know, the coach is trying to explain the bag drill to him and he's in the stance in Mike Mayock even goes, he goes, oh my gosh, what's he doing? You know that kind of thing. NFL coaches are just cussing. Well, what I'm saying, though, there's guys, there's these these guys who are like these hybrid players. Dane calls it that talk site. He's absolutely right. The Evan Ingrams of the world.

You know a guy that's six three two and thirty four pounds. That runs four four three. Surprise with Hodges though he came out of two fifty seven. Yeah, it doesn't look two fifty seven, but you know, hidden the record coming in to U today for tight end and the broad jump was ten eleven and we had two get over eleven feet so and Joker would have had

the record if not for Hodges who had it. But no, you're right with with Evan Ingram a four four two in the forty yard dash officially, Yeah, that's just ridiculous. And that's again why I think he's a receiver. That's where he does his best work. But plenty you mentioned Oj Howard, uh, plenty of tight ends had good days today, Adam shaheen for a guy that's two hundred and seventy eight pounds seven nine if you look good in the rounds too, exactly kept the straight line, caught all that.

Oh yeah, I don't think this is a new This is not news to us or anybody that follows the draft, I think, but we can let go of the notion that Oj Howard's it there at twenty eight. I feel like probably, yeah, yeah, so I think so too. I think that you know, now the question became, okay, could there be three tight ends that go in the first round that that that would be unheard of? No, I don't know. If I don't know if Ashley gets into the first round, I don't know that. I think that

he can get top fifty. He could get top fifty easy. I don't think there's a question about that now. But in twenty five years of coming to this place, this is the fastest group of tight ends I've ever seen. Yeah, I mean, now, the problem with this group is it was a pillow fight out there today in the backs. Okay, when they're hitting the backs, not they're not like true tight ends. Well, you know what, though, not the ones we're talking. Hey, let me tell you what. There's some

of these guys. Jake Butt recognizes what Jason Witten is a traditional tied end, and I'm saying that though there's something to having a guy that could be a traditional tight end. Well, I mean, yeah, and these are mismatched players. I get it. But you know what, if you're asking these guys to block, they're getting away blockers at bit. But I was a little disappointed. I didn't see anymore power and snap. You know, I was looking for that

a little bit. When you got athletes, you can kind of get that at least make some noise like you're blocking, right those guys it was it was. It was a pillow fighting then, and I think that was that to me. I just want to see some hip roll, you know when they do those drills. I can see you run routes all day. I could see it catch the football. I could be real impressed with that. But give me some snap, some hip roll, and some driving off the ball to kind of make me feel like you can

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or Deslon Tyler. We can help you in Texas. Call two one four nine four one eighty three two one four nine four one eighty three hundred is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com drafty. We are back here to trash show. I got stunned right there they're doing They're in combined talk and they're like, come listen to Bill Polly, and I'm like, what Bill Polly Later? Yeah, Bill Poliant's gonna hang out and why Trell Owens and Randy Moss should

not be in the Hall of Fame, Yeah exactly. Rappaport is like right over there, if you want to go talk to him. That's okay. We're good with him. We're all right. He's trying to make trades. You're gonna you're gonna debuck one of his trades today. I have a feeling when we get to kill talk about that. Dave. We want to and Dame, we want to thank Caliber Collision for coming on board and helping us out through

this whole process here while we're in Indianapolis. And we also want to thank our good friends at Tommy John, our favorite underwear brand. Uh. We continue to sing its praises as we work through these uh these days here in Indianapolis, heading back to a Dallas tomorrow. But uh, good buddies at Tommy John. I did love Tommy John. Actually, somebody just tweeted me and said, you need to pay those or you need to have those no bunch underwear folks pay you to stay in India another couple of

days and see these dbs. Yeah I agree. Yeah, Well Tommy John makes a fine product, but unfortunately they're not paying my hotel wheel. Yeah that is true. Well, we thank them Caliber Collision and Tommy John, both of them. All Right, Dave, it is time for a little Twitter on the twenty. Thank you very much. It's all yours. Okay. It's a good segue because we were just talking about tight ends and we did not talk about this guy.

Jonah wants to know what can you tell me about Florida International's John who Smith and i'll as usual, you know a range if you will. Yeah, he was in the four six range today in his forties, which is a good number for him. Not the biggest guy what he came in at six two and a half, two

hundred forty eight pounds him. You know, he's a little undersize what you want a traditional tight end, but he's that move uh you know style tight end, that joker that you can you know motion, you can kick him outside, uh, put him on the wing, do a couple of different things with him, more of that h back style. I think he's a very natural receiver. And you saw that Senior Bowl, Yeah, and I shared it. I thought you

saw it here. Uh, John Hu Smith to me somewhere in that probably probably fourth round my game A three four. But I like him a little bit more than I think where he'll end up. But I think somewhere early day three as world Goo, I think I liked I think I like Gerald Edward Gerald Everett a little bit better than him, you know, I agree, Yeah, I saw a little bit more of him from South Alabama. So yeah, that kind of the similar styles of guys you talked

about the joker guy. You know, here's the guy that Everett that came in sixty three, two thirty nine more than twelves in the Senior Bowl. But you watch his tape at South On Now there's a guy that gets in some blocks and will snap a little bit. You can see the hip role in him, try and get guys to the outside though. So I was a little bit you know, both guys actually did twenty two times on the bench on identical four six two exactly, so

similar player. But I think I would like the South Alabama kid, uh Everett a little bit more than I would uh than Smith. I agree. I have a third on Everett and a three four on Smith. There you go, So you're telling me, I like I should feel good about the tight end pool beyond like the first round.

Oh yeah, yeah, I think you should. Absolutely, And that's the biggest reason why you know we said this before, but why maybe an age OJ Howard could be there just because you kind of passed on them because you want to get that pass rusher early on. You want to get that you know, the corner the receiver right. So the top twenty five is filled with those positions and a guy like GoJ Howard or David and Joku could slip a little bit and could be an option.

Fair enough, Alfredo wants to know DBS do their work out tomorrow Sunday. What is the most important drill to watch for DBS will be on Monday. Oh, I'm sorry, sorry, my bad, I got confused, but yeah, I mean well, I mean the forty yard dash obviously, I mean that straight line speed. A lot of times you see uh corners, man, you want to see that makeup speed as well. Uh you know at playing the cornerback position, it's inevitable you're gonna get beat and you're gonna have to make up

a few steps. So I want to see him there, you know, three cones obviously a big one vertical like that an actual explosion. But the positional drills where I like. I love watching the positional drills with the corners and the DBS that back pedal, the backpedal, turn open and go. Can you stay on a vertical plane? Drill right, can you stay low in your pedal, use your hips, stay on that vertical plane and not lose speed, not have to you know, gather yourself gear down, you maintain that momentum.

That's something that a lot of colleges they don't ask you to press and play with the natural transition that a lot of NFL teams are gonna ask you to do. So that drill, to me, exposed a lot of guys who have struggles. Well, I'll tell you what, you are absolutely right. That was my favorite one. If you go away from the TV though, and are you tape this and you want to come back and watch watch the drill again. The Raiders are the ones that got this

drill in. Actually Al Davis, you know, he said, listen, let's let these guys pedal. Let's let them turn and then burst and they do it to the right, and they do it to the left, and they don't they don't know, and they don't Yeah, defender or the coach will yeah direct them why they're gonna go. Yeah. It really really helps you that way though. I mean when you could pedal, turn and burst that I love those drills. And when they do the ball skilled drills, right, dbs

where Yeah, it's like soccer. It's like soccer boys, some goats out there, fire a fastball at them, right, you know, you see which dbs have the soft hands, stone hands. Right. Uh, that's a fun drill to watch. It absolutely kind of covered it all anyway. Yeah, dbs are fun to watch. That's my personal that's my person. Yeah, the receivers and quarterbacks with two hours and forty five minutes today, as

I mean that is a marathon's kind of bogged down. Well, there's some things they probably need to take out of that a little bit, but I think the dbs go two hours and forty five minutes. I think every drill you get something out of it. Though. Yeah, it's important position, as we all know. I know we touched on him in the first segment, but Josh would just like you ought to talk a little bit more about Evan Ingram. Yeah, you know, I list him as a receiver, and I

think because that's how he's used it will miss. I don't see an inline guy, regardless of what you call him. Receiver, a tight end, very athletic and obviously he showed that today with four four two with the way he can stretch the seam the way you know, he can manipulate space over the middle of the field. I think he

has reliable hands. But again, just not a guy you want in line, you know, blocking, or you can use him maybe on the wing, use him in different scenarios where he'll need to just sustain for a moment or two just to slow down defenders. But he's not an overpowering guy in that sense. But he's an athlete. Let him go run routes, let him be a weapon on your offense that your quarterback and throw too. Yeah. I think this guy is a really nice job of finding space. Yeah,

you know, that's his ability. He has an awareness of where he needs to be in a round. I think Dane has got him cold as far as the where he where he is, where around you give him. I put him in the third is what I did. I love him more as as the receiving traits than I do the blocking traits. Let me ask you this real quick.

Sorry to cut you off, but so you're drafting this guy in the third round to play receiver though basically to play to play doing with him, I think you're you're draft him to be that hybrid player that I mean, he's not an in line player. He plays. When you watch him, he rarely puts his hand on the ground. He plays as a wing. He plays detached. He's always going up the field, and when he does block, he's a he lacks sustain My my, my concern here is that we we rode the Gavin Escobar ride and it

didn't work out. And based on the like what the Cowboys want to do. Yeah, I mean, if he can play a receiver outside and be good, fine, but I don't I don't need because that's not how they want to use their Jeff Swain can catch the football, can also block. That's my point. I have a one two on ingram Um because I think he's a big slot receiver. I don't think he's you know, a tight end. I don't think he should be used as one. I think you put him in the slot kind of like how

the Saints used Marquis Colston. You know that big slot guy, and let him you know, he not only can he work the middle of the field, but he can run different routes. And I don't know. To me, I have that value in the top forty. Now you have to buy into that I don't think it worked for the Cowboy. Yeah, that's you know, right, being as I am super intriguing player, not for this team, it's not. In my opinion, I agree with that. Um, somebody wanted to know what did

y'all think about Pat Pat Mahomes today? What about that Pat Mahomes? You see the arm talent, it's I mean, it's clear the guy can spray it all over the field. Um. You know, I don't think we expected to see this monumental transition where all of a sudden he's looked smooth in his back pet or in his h in his footwork, and you know the mechanics and obviously has a long way to go. We saw that today. But you know the ball, the way it comes off his hand, it's special. Yeah,

it really is. The Thing that I noticed about Pat Mahomes throwing the football today is if he had three shots to throw the ball, and maybe one on the out was a little behind, and maybe the next one was a little behind, the third one was where it needed to be. It's kind of like he said, throw, oh, you clap the hands, throw, clap the hands, and then it was throw Okay, that's where it needs to be. So, yeah, Mahomes is gonna need a lot of work. I mean

he really really is. The dance right again, The armed talent's there. The ability to throw from different platforms, that's something that everybody's gonna talk about. There's gonna be comparisons to him about how he drops down, how he can throw over the top, how he can throw to his left, how he can throw to his right. I mean, these

are all things we saw Dak Prescott too. I mean we saw all his his ability to run full to his left and fire the ball outside or open up his up his hips and throw the ball down the field. These are things that Pat Mahomes can do. And we'll hear more about that as the workouts and we'll see, we'll see how things shake out for him. Maybe there'll be some video of him, and you know, we get this at the Cowboys where they work out with him, and maybe you'll see a different quarterback. Maybe you won't

see the gun slinger loose ability. You'll see more of a tightened up throwing motion and more of a step. You know. That's the thing that happened to Kaiser, I think a little bit to I think Mike Mayock and even a car the former quarterback brought this up. Kaiser never stepped in the same spot when he was throwing the ball. Everything was step here, and then it was step here, and they never He never hit that spot, and I think you saw it with a lot of

quarterbacks to that. And then the accuracy suffers because foot hits here wide, foots hits in the middle, foot hits here, So you don't see that. These guys have got to tighten up some of their throwing motions, though they really do it. I was a little surprised at Mahomes. I thought he'd run a little better in four eight. Yeah, I didn't think he was a four three guy, but I thought, you know, he could maybe for six at least, maybe get like Josh Dobbs, right, Josh Dobbs in the

four six, four six, five rounds. I thought Dobbs is impressive athletically, he's he's impressive like with everything except you know, throwing the bottle. The right team which is you know, I mean, he's he's intelligent, he's a leader, he's a mobile guy, he's big, strong arm. I just don't I don't know, but something I bet you some team buys into him, and we'll want to develop that and he'll go a lot higher than you know, and Kobe Brissette

through the ball better than this guy. Oh yeah, so what I'm saying, but an athlete that kind of you know, that kind of guy, right, yeah, its it too far a comparison. Well, Brissette went what third round? Yeah, so and that's too I think, right, I think this is a guy you think maybe, but somebody took it. The Patriots took a chance on set. I think Dobbs is a guy fourth fifth round. Maybe a team will pull the trigger. I don't know. I have him as a PFA.

I don't think he see but I saw it with Dobbs today when the ball when they were throwing them, when they're running the routes, like especially the routes where the receiver had to like make the adjustment over the head adjustment. He was the one guy that was throwing the ball the best of the guys throwing the ball

down the field. And that might help him. Yeah. Maybe someone says, well, maybe this is when we work on the underneath stuff, and ask a Tennessee man, you know, it's just no, no, you're right, you're right, I don't. I don't. I'm just saying he has pressure in his face. Uh, you know, the ball just it's got a mind of its own. Kaya Kaya perfect example. Sure. I mean he looked great throwing the ball around today when no one's hitting him exactly. He set up for something like this,

we're in shorts and in seven on seven. Yeah, he can do it. But when the bullets flying, and that's not something he's comfortable with, and that's when the accuracy suffered, mechanics suffer. Um and yeah, ka Kaya is a good example of a player who looks good in this type of setting, but when you watch the tape and you know, yeah, he's all it's all over the place, right, Pat mahomes first round pick. That's how I feel. I don't. Yeah, I don't disagree. I just it's more that would be

a you know, that would be a gutsy call. I don't know. I don't know as a general manager that I can make that call now. I couldn't know. He's not a first round pick for me, but I do think there will be one that recognize the talent. Casey late second round and John Dorsey's a bold guy. Yeah, you know, it's Brian's like, Noah, he's gonna take that runner from Oklahoma that we're gonna go see on Wednesday, probably, but he knows he can get him in the third round.

Now he might take him in the first. I like to award outside the box. Outside the box thinking I'm just ignoring that. Uh, Bobby friend of the show, Bobby belt Um, he says, given log jam at receiver, obviously, uh. And given the impressive performances from John Ross and Chad Hanson, is Corey Davis at twenty eight becoming a possibility? I don't think I really see this, but I don't know your way. It's funny because we were talking about this earlier.

But whenever they show a Corey Dave his highlight, it's against Buffalo or it's against you know, I just compent to that Wisconsin Cotton Bowl highlight. Is that what you're saying? Oh, yeah, he had a few highlights from that game, sure, but predominantly, you know, his career was built playing Matt competition, and that's just it's not his fault. That's who recruited him, that's where he went to play, and that's where he dominated. And so it's a shame. We can't couldn't see him here.

We won't see him on his pro day. He plans to have a workout prior to the draft, but we're talking not until mid April. We won't have numbers on this guy. Is there a team in the Big Ten that he couldn't play for? Oh no, no, no, there's not a team in the country he couldn't play for. But wait, so see, I that's what I'm trying. I'm

trying to I guess I'm trying to justify. Is it his fault that he ended up at Western Michigan because somebody missed him, a Big Ten team missed It's the same it's the same story as why did Antonio Brown go to Central Michigan or righted you know, Jerry Race go to Mississippi Valley State. Yeah, I mean it's I think it's that type of deal where that you know that that happens. You know, why would J. J. Watt

have to be a walk on? Yeah? See we talk about Cooper Cup because is there a Pac twelve team that he couldn't have played for? Well so, but Dane to the point, you don't think those red flags will push him that far? Down the poort. Oh yeah, there's just no, there's too many teams that could use a receiver like that. Um, he's my number one guy. Yeah, and I don't I think there are too many. And I love Williams too. He made too many fans around the league for him to follow that far. I have

a I think it's a long shot he falls. He makes the twenties. Yeah, you know, as long as the ankles, Williams might go ahead of him. Willis what if Williams run? What if Williams doesn't run real well and then all of a sudden, Williams is a different story. He makes a ton of plays on tape, though you could see them all well, sure, but watch the National Championship game. The elephant in the room is a guy that was

drafted in the first round last year, old miss. Yeah, you're right about though, you know, a guy that had one catch on Yeah. Man, you know, that's just it's an unfair comparison. But the truth is, Mike Williams is not a guy. It's not a speedster. His game is not built on speed. And it's gonna be hard to overlook, you know, especially after what happened last year to a lot of us. I thought, I don't think he's gonna

fall to twenty eight Mike Williams, Corey Davis. But with that said, I do think that uh and Ross has really beat up. If you think about him, there might not be a first round receiver and the second round receiver might be the answer. With all those guys we talked about, Yeah, we talked about with the tight end, you know why you wait because you get one later receiver is just in that mix too. I love good segues,

and that was one. A couple of people asked just and we've talked about his combine, but Zay Jones, we were talking about here, where where are we at? Where don't you thinking did he move himself up? Maybe a round? By what he why? What he what he ran? I think between the Senior Bowl and what he did today, Yes, I think he in my mind, he went from a borderline top one hundred pick third fourth round right up

until a guy that belongs to somewhere top seventy five. Okay, so we're talking second round, right, Maybe chance he gets in the early third, but he's not gonna wait long on day two to hear his name. I don't think he's a first round guy. Um, but I think he's a very quality receiver who there's a lot there's so much to like about him. There is a lot to like about him at But Dane, you boy, you brought up something. You watch that tape, it's like one hundred

and thirty balls going sideways. Yeah, there's not a lot of him. There's some, there's some, there's a couple. I mean, I trying to remember the game where I remember one of the games so I was watching. It might have been they play South Carolina. Ball went down the field though, adjusting catch down the field, and I'm like going, oh, there's one. But but the majority of his stuff is sideways or slants or the in the end kind of stuff and not at intermediate debt. And that's where it's

it's or sideline outs. There's another thing. I mean, he's got that balance. That's where he has to be a good scout. You know, we're talking about with corners who you know, they have the the body to press, but they weren't asked to do it and call it, you know, or you know, a receiver who had the vertical skills wasn't asked to do it. You know he averaged under eleven yards per catch in college. Right, it's an alarming

low number. Right, Yeah, you know, but it's just you can't the way he was used and watching him on tape, you thought, you know, this guy, he's a slot only receiver who you know, not gonna stretch the defense out vertically, but he has the numbers that tells you he can do it, just wasn't asked to do it. Eddie Long and similar line. But Eddie wants to know. And I mean obviously potentially from the last couple of days, um guys who maybe have snuck into the back end of

the first round in your eyes, that weren't there. Trying to think of some guys that potentially the Cowboys could be sound like a Cowboys angle. I mean it is an angled toward the Cowboys, but it doesn't have How about Godwin? I mean, I know I have him in the second round. He's my number one receiver in the second round. About a guy we haven't talked about yet,

Curtis Samuel four three one today. Okay, now there you got I think a player who you know he worked out with the Sievers, but you know we both are running back both believe he's a running back. But if I think the fact that he can he can do both, that there's a discussion there. It tells you a boy his versatility. So you're saying we're gonna have two first

round gadgetbacks, I'm just telling you. His kid is five eleven one ninety six and he went four three one eighteen times with the wags, thirty seven with the vertical, nine eleven with the broad. He's got the shuttle of four three three, which is a little surprising because I thought he'd be a little bit quicker than that. But I'll tell you what though, watching him run routes and stuff, he's a running back to me, I agree. I mean he is. Well, he's in that Christian McCaffrey mold where

you know he's not only a running back. I think if you're gonna label him as something on a roster, I agree, you put the RD next to his name, but you let him go in the slot. He's the chess piece on an offense where you move him around right and you stress out the defense because the defense is wonder Okay, what's he gonna do? Is he going out to run routes? Sure? Is he going to stay

in him blow? Is he gonna get the handoff? He just he keeps defenses guessing and a player like that that can beat that type of weapon you can use Curtis Samuel, So I think he's he was in a top forty mix before. I think he definitely is now. Okay, well, thank you very much for all the questions on Twitter on the twenty. We appreciate the interaction we have. We will continue to always do that. I want to thank

ed Ka Hill for coming up with that. I love it because it's the interaction and hopefully you got your questions answer. Okay, okay, So when we come back, I'm gonna visit with David Hellman. He was on the bus with Jerry Jones for two hours today. Let's see what mister Jones has to offer and tell us a little bit about this trap. We'll be right back deep in

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So no matter where life finds you today are in years to come, trust that we'll be there to care for you. To find a physician, visit Baylor, Scott and White dot com. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Showboys back back here at the two thousand and seventeen NFL Combine. Brian brought us along with Dame Brugler, David Hellman, Kent Garrison executive producing this show. I want to thank everybody out there that's been fallen along on Twitter,

on the various platforms where we've done our show. I was looking at the podcast numbers and stuff like that. It's been outstanding. Can't thank you guys enough. Uh you know, if you want to leave comments, you want to go in that section leave some comments. I always go in there and try and see if there's anything new. Anyway we can approve the show. We'll be happy to do that. Also, to want to talk about your podcast as well. You

do a couple of podcasts. You do this one and then you do one with Jeff Kavanaugh, who's our partner at one oh five three. Trust the Tape. Trust the tape to check it out. Check it. It's a very good podcast. A lot of information in that one as well. And then also to you this with the commine coming to close yet workouts coming up, you're working on the on the Beast the Beast. Yes, the thing is, uh

it's gonna be extra beastly this year. Uh No, it's gonna be full of everyone who's bought up before they know what they're getting. There were four hundred reports. Everything you need to know from other workouts. This gun report to no details too small, so uh yeah, check that out. It should be ready here at the end of this month. Before we get talking about Erry Jones, I did want to mention, Yeah, we've heard for some defensive lineman today, Tack McKinley being one of them. Yes, a player that

I know, Cowboy, A lot of Cowboys fans are interested in. Uh, he's gonna do everything tomorrow and the drills even though he has a bum right shoulder he has he's having surgery on Monday, right, Uh, do the workouts and he was gonna still benching tells a warrior. This guy is Seriously he revealed today that he's had that injury the last two years. He's played through it. So Uh, some interesting things from Tach McKinley today learning about that injury. Uh.

Just he's an interesting player. And I think David said the best you know it, the team that gets him the media will be happy with the sound bite you're gonna get from this guy's And yeah, it's unbelieving. And he's just like, yeah, like this is my dream. Obviously, I'm I mean, I played two years with this thing. Obviously, I'm just gonna like go through all these workouts with

a torn laborum. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah, and he's just like, yeah, he's and also wanting to Miles Garrett revealed today that he had hurt his ankle, you know and any type. So if you're one of those guys who are watching tape or Gallus is watching tape anything after the Arkansas game is really bad for him because he got his ankle Hurton practice. You gotta watch September UCLA this he's

an opener. Yeah, that injury happening against Arkansas and then the rest of the season he was he struggled with he thought he was coming back, and then he revealed today that someone uh you know, ran into him reinjured that ankle during practice. So that really kept him side not sideline because he's on the field, but he gimpie the rest of the year and that's why, you know, I think he was not as effective as you usually expect him to against Alabama and against the bigger teams

down the stretch. Right, And Jabrill Peppers was another one we got a chance to visit with. Jabrill Peppers will work out with the linebackers and the defensive backs on Monday, so he has an arrangement with the combine to be able to do position drills. He's gonna run his forty with the linebackers tomorrow, do all their drills, stay over, and then on Monday, not run the forty again, but just do the drills with the defensive backs. So he was asked first question out of the blocks. They said,

what position you place is? What do I look like I play? You know, he sees himself as a defensive Yeah, he sees safe. He sees himself as a safety. But he's going through the linebacker drills as well, because that's the position he was listed at the start the year. And he also said he would be willing to work out on the offensive side for exactly for the running

teams that want to look him. We kind of we kind of hinted that that's when I thought that maybe his best position might even be as a running back. So we'll see. Yeah, put the balls hands, so we'll see. Those are all things that he can All you can do is do what a lot of versatil players, a lot of versus players. Okay, David, you had the opportunity, you got to spend two hours a day with the owner, president,

general manager on the bus talking about various things. That broad question is always the takeaway, but let's keep it draft specific. I mean there's a lot of takeaway, and I mean we can get into Romo and a bunch of that stuff. Out of you can read Dallas Cowboys

dot Com and here. The full video is on there if you want to watch it, listen to it here here on the Draft show, I think we should talk about war daddies, Okay, because one of the things he touched on was how do you go about finding the war daddy pass rusher that you mentioned that you want. Uh So, I'm just gonna read the quote because it's it's fantastic. He said, Well, I'll tell you how you

try to get one. You try to do it like we did with Lawrence, which was trading up to get him rather than waiting for him to come to you. You try to get him like we did with Gregory. That's some of the capital you talk about there. You take more risks, you get a little risk here, you get aggressive on going to get him, all of which is not as sound as getting him with the first pick in the draft, which obviously they don't have that option, right,

But you gotta be imaginative in positioning that. And my experience is that with more risk, there's more risk involved if you're willing to take it. Okay, so kind of sounds like it's one of these kind of sounds like the sounds like, how was a trading up to number one for Garrett which he didn't outline in this I've sat in drafts where he didn't have it one and he was absolutely miserable. So probably don't need to do that. Yeah, he didn't detail it, but I mean he I thought

it was really interesting. Okay, Yeah, you trade up for Lawrence And we talked about that the other night. Maybe you trade up from twenty eight to you know, twenty or something to get get this guy. But he threw Gregory out there too, which like as soon as and I mean, I don't know anything, I'm not you know, I'm not trying to tell you something. But as soon as he said that, Jim Williams, Tim Williams, I mean, you sit here and you think you're like, well, the

cowboys learned their lesson. They're not gonna do that again. But if you have a chance to get a war daddy, I think till I think Tim Williams is the second best pass rusher from the street. I think you just just can. And this is the maybe the smartest thing I think you've ever said in the five years I've known you, which is that you can't one hundred percent predict what's going to happen when the GM knows he's not gonna get fired. Yeah, I mean that the GM knows.

When the GM knows is that he will have his job the day after the draft and the year after the year after the draft, and the year after the draft, then you you can make some bold move. If Jerry Jones thinks that he needs a big, the old pass rusher to really I hate the term put this team over the top, but to really make a difference on this year's team, I definitely don't think he'd be afraid to do something. Okay, now, so let's talk about guys

to Steven Jones. But let me ask you this though, could he could You know we've talked about if m if McKinley was healthy, he would not make it to Dallas at twenty eight. Do you think I would be surprised? Yeah? No, I don't think he was healthy. I think he's like a top twenty. Okay, So then that leaves like, how about a guy like Barnett, and we think Barnett might go a little bit higher. Yeah, I don't think then. Okay, now, okay, okay, what if Barnette were to get to eighteen? Now do

you go get him? Now? Do you go get him? That's the scenario. What are we giving up? Well, you're obviously you're gonna has to be ninety two. You're gonna happen. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, Yeah, is that enough? It might not not? Maybe not to get eighteen. Yeah, if you're gonnap to like twenty two, then I think that might be enough. You're gonna have to probably give up sixty. Oh and I don't think you do that. You you try at all costs to avoid that. Don't take sixty. I'm just

telling you, though, you can give that. I don't have my chart in front you. When the next draft show next Thursday, when we're back at the Star, I'll bring my jet my draft chart with me. Would you get art? Would you give up ninety two and one thirty three to get from twenty eight? Take? Oh? God, you don't have a fifth round pick either? Yeah? No, you get You're basically you're saying you're getting three good picks or

I'm sorry, you're getting two really good picks. You have to be pretty convinced that that player is gonna come in from day one and make an impact. Well, okay, let me I mean, and I'm I'm not saying I think this is a great idea, but I'm thinking like I'm Jerry Jones and I'm saying, Jalen Smith's playing, Charles Tapper's playing. I got I got those extra picks. Cowboys. See those two guys as two drafts that are joining

the squad on this team like that. Basically both of them are just like, cover your eyes and hope for the best. Yeah, I'm serious. I know, I know, I'm serious too. You. I mean, if you throw those two guys in the mix and you're saying give me, we'll say, we'll say Barnett just for the sake of a name. Throw in Barnette and then a dB at sixty, and then you add those two guys to the mix and go,

you're gonna need a saved You're a corner. It sounds like unless you got plans of resigning they have, they have too much crap that they need to do for them to be able to pull that off. That's too bold, that's tough, it really is. I I can't see him doing that. So the likely scenario then would be for him to do what he did with Gregory. Let's take a chance on Williams being there at sixty. God, what if they did that too, you know, back to back? Yeah,

I don't. Okay, let's let's look at the crystal ball. Let's look at the crystal ball. Sure, we're sitting there. We're sitting there at day two at the draft, and it comes up to down and all of a sudden, we see Jason Garrett emphatically trying to convince Jerry Jones not to take the guy's like, and will McClay is like he's kind of trying to explain to Garrett and Jerry and wants nothing to do with either one of them.

Were talking about, right, what are you gonna say when you when you when you say it's gonna be Tim Williams, what's your what's you're gonna the crystal ball? What are you gonna say? Good luck? You know, you crush your fingers and you just hope that the guy buys in it doesn't get into any problems. I don't that is a huge risk to take. I'm not sure I'm willing

to do it. And we're after what happened with Gregory, you're not Yeah, well, not only that, but just I don't know when we're still figuring out, I want to know what spent did you did you listen to Tim Williams talk today? He seemed like he was on the defensive pretty much. Oh yeah. I think that stems from what he's been used to the past few days, being with teams. You know, he's taking a lot of he is.

He is a punching bag right now, exactly. So, I don't know, I don't I think there's a good chance that when it's all said and done, he's not a first round pick, right. But it's sixty, that's what we're talking about. Hey, And for the record, we nobody saw Gregory falling all that way for sixty, So who knows if he's there at sixty? You know what, Here we go again. Yeah, I mean it's I don't think anyone would be surprised when they made that move. No, I

don't think so. And let it be noted that we on the last night of the combine for us, we if if it gets to that point, we're just all in. No, you know what you guys it. I think they I hope that they've learned their lesson. Well, I hope, but you're right the way you said earlier, Dave, this general manager, you quoted him, let's pull it. Let's pull it back though, and be a little more realistic here, and not that that's unrealistic, but a little more vague. I guess, going

back to the point, the original point. If you got a package twenty eight and ninety two to get something like how high up can that get you? And I know you don't have a chart. I wish I might chart with me. I'm sorry, Dane said, I mean twenty eight to twenty two. See if I could just get Denver to take Romo and flop those spots. We don't we don't need to get too deep and Jerry, Jerry said all possibilities are still on the table with Tony Romo.

So okay, don't I mean that's not done, that's not finished. Real quick? Did he saything about backup quarterback? He did? He's saying about drafting a guy or he had a really he had a really, I'm I'm it's gonna take me forever to find it. But he basically said, you know, he's they really like Kellen Moore, which draft you know, roll your eyes or clap your hands however you feel.

I don't care, um, but you know, he's basically like, you know, we don't have to get this like old thirty five year old veteran guy in the scenario where Tony Romo's not here. You know, we could bring back a guy like Kellen Moore and draft another guy. And I think I'm totally inferring here, but I kind of get the impression like Jerry really likes the idea of kind of like that Green Bay model of just having a guy in the pipe a lottery ticket. Yeah, I think it's and I don't. I think it works. I

don't disagree with it at all. If this, if they were to draft a quarterback in the late rounds, I think it would piss a lot of fans off, but I think it would be smart. Oh yeah, I don't know how. Why would you be pissed off about that? It's it's a lottery because it's a player that ideally will not be They don't have a fifth round pick, and barring a catastrophe. He's not going to take snaps and that makes fans upset. Just as a general rule.

He'say thing about his offensive line, the right tackle spot, he said he has there's been no indication that dub Free plans on retiring, which we kind of heard that earlier in the week, but he's still relying on Jazz Green. Well we didn't really talk about Jazz and Lyo, but he didn't mean he expects dub Free to finish up

his contract, so that's worth considering. But yeah, no, I did think, like Jerry kind of said, you know, we don't have to get this old quarterback on his last legs, like a Kyle Orton back in the day, Like maybe we draft another guy and just kind of keep the youth movement going, which I think is a good idea. All right, Well that was that. That was good stuff. Though. I like what he's talking about. I mean, my eyebrows shot up off my head when I heard him talking

about taking risks to get where. I got one more thing, I'm sorry, one more things that either about cornerback or safety. Really I'm writing a story about it right now. He said he would not tell us which, but he said, there's two positions on this roster that I think we really we have to do something about. We really can't afford to let that slip. I think cornerback is obviously right. Wide receiver is a really good candidate, specifically the Terrance

Spot wide receiver too. And then I mean safety it's kind of an issue as well. So and people will say pass Rusher. I disagree with that because they have a lot, they have a lot of bodies. Yes, they could stand to improve, but they have the bodies necessary to play a game, whereas a cornerback and receiver they don't. So yeah, yeah, no, And that all starts when we get back. I mean, we're gonna see yesterday right to night.

I have a feeling a handful of like long time cowboys are going to be holding up new jerseys by the end of this week. That you're right about that. Okay, David, thank you so much for doing that. And that is uh, that's gonna be all the time that we have today. And just again, thank everybody out there for joining us these last several days. We appreciate all the interaction we have with you with the Twitter on the twenty. We

appreciate you guys listening all the various platforms. Again, I encourage you to go on make comments stuff like that, be happy to to read those. Anything we could do to improve the show. We'll be back with these guys, Dame Bugler, David Helm and King Garrison. I'll be back with them on next Thursday. From the Star. We'll put a bow on this combine, look at look ahead, and look at these pro days. We got those coming up now and not too far we'll be drafting some players.

So once again, thanks everybody out there, Thanks to Derek Eagleton, thanks to Ed K. Hill, and thanks to Taylor Stern for always pushing our stuff out there. We'll see you guys next week. From the Start