Draft Show: LIVE @ The 2017 NFL Combine - Day 2

well Kate Garrison, Executive producer. We welcome everybody it's out there joining us today and guys um excited to get into a little bit of the personalities of these players. You know, we did see the opportunity to have some interviews at the podium. We got to see some guys lift, you know, so again, personalities workout. We haven't seen the full workout that will take place tomorrow. Uh. The guys that that ran through us today were the running backs

and the offensive linemen. And I want to get into uh, you know, we've talked about how this has become a media really a event, this part of it. Yeah, talk about it, Brian. You wrote about it now, I wrote about on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and I and I I feel kind of a little bit. I hate what I become. I really I do, and I hate what

I become. And as Day pointed out as my twenty fifth year of doing this, coming to combine and I I've I felt like as the now the media side of the that that I'm ashamed because I'm hurting my scouting side of it. But if you want to read my opinion piece, please go to Dallas Cowboys dot com and do that. I felt like I put it out there. I laid it out there pretty well. But the side that we got to do today and real quick about

could too. I'll go through the show. We'll visit a little bit about the sights and sounds things that we heard today. Guys that we got a chance to visit with, UH do some stuff too with the physical side of it, the numbers from the press from the bench press over there. And I want to get into you about the bench press, because I think you said something that you really weren't Uh the bench press didn't mean that all that much for the offensive lineman, and I hope I'm not quoting

you wrongly there. It's an overrated Okay, Yeah, I'll get it. I'll get into that. I want to get into that. But let me set this thing up. We'll talk about all that we're gonna do twitter on the twenty, and then we'll get into some other things maybe, uh, you know, we we I got the impression that some of the guys might not really like football, you know, and just some of the conversations that we're had, and as a scout, my ears perked up. Some of the guys are one

guy and some of the guys I think that. We'll see there's some guys I think that, and I want to get into that. And I want to get into that with both you because I have my feeling about guys really loving football, and as an evaluat or where am I especially at this combine, if I get a guy that doesn't have that fire, look that fire in his eyes, am I going to go away from that. But we'll get into that in the second half of the show, so you can get a hold of us.

Like I say, we don't have the ability to take any calls, which is I'm sorry about that, Dave gets Ami because I don't take calls anyway. But when we get back to the Star, I promise to do that. But way you can interact with us though, is like we do Twitter on the twenty send your questions. You

should be following at the Draft Show anyway. Kent Garrison does a great job managing the account, letting you know we're on Periscope or on the different platforms that you can I had some people on iTunes today, was apologized about that. We got that all squared away. So thank you guys for everything you do to follow along the Draft Show. But if you want to get your questions answered today, I want to give you that opportunity at the Draft Show. Makes will do that. David Hellman wheel

Twitter on the twenty and we'll take care of that. Okay. Impressions of the Day. I know it's a broad question, and it's one of those things where you know, a kid stands up there for three minutes, stands up there for twelve minutes, for seventeen minutes, But what do you gather in this? You know a lot of these kids come from big schools. They're used to standing in front of the media and talk, and then there's some kids

that really aren't used to that. Though. What did you take though from some of the big names that went today? Four Net Cook, guys like that, Kamara Kamara, Tennessee. Well, I mean, and we can get into that, but the main the funny thing to me, you know, I already joked about how we make this big deal about the combine and it kind of just like it takes forever for the ball to really start getting rolling, you know, And then the ball started rolling today. And who did

we watch? We watch the two positions that the Cowboys don't really need, like the strengths of their team running back and offensive lines, and and there were plenty of interesting things to take away, but I just thought it was funny. It's like, oh, and you know, every other team in the league is like swing tackle out there for you. I'm sure, and I know Draft Nerd like, don't try to throw me under the bus like that,

But I wasn't throwing you under the bus. I was just you get my Obviously the Cowboys could use a tackle. I'm not sure that my point. But if you had to say tooth strengths on this team, wouldn't those be near the top of the list? Oh, offensive line and running back? Yeah? Back. Every team in the league is sitting here like, oh, Fournette, Cook, Kamara, uh, pump free and oh pump free hunting a lot of good a

lot of good players. But you know, for the Cowboys, I'm just like, all right, where where are the pass rushers? Or are the corners? Oh? Anyway, so you're you're lining up for your your focus is now on these defenses. You're trying to I'm trying to make I'm trying to make this squad better in twenty seventeen. But to your point,

uh yeah. And these were two really interesting interviews, And I thought, um, Fournette and Cook were really fun juxtaposition because I thought Fournette was a case example of like how these guys are coached to the extreme on their approach to the combine and how you know, he just wanted to make it as boring as he possibly could, and he sure did. I mean, I went to LSU. I love Leonard Fournette, but that was as boring as I've ever been a part of. And then Dalvin Cook.

You know, it wasn't the best interview ever, but he was much more engaging, much more interesting, much more willing to speak his mind. And I honestly I came away from the whole thing with a better impression of Dalvin Cook than of Leonard Fournette. And you know, I'm not going to let an interview dictate sure your NFL career,

but that's just kind of how I came away. Yeah, what do you think the biggest thing for me during these interviews today was just finding out more about the injuries, right, what's going on with the medicals in Dalvin Cook. One of the biggest wild cards this week based on the medicals. And so he stood up there and he said that he passed every single medical test. Now explained to him the test. Now we've done research on this. It's the

labor him. He's had trouble with both shoulders, both shoulders, the back shoulder, yes, the back, the front on the right side, on the right side, back and front, and then on the left side, I think of the front, right, Is that what I said? Yeah? But dating back to his high school days, so three surgeries run back shoulders for a two hundred and ten pound running back, right, He's not you know, that's not he doesn't have the

body armor ideal. He's not a zeke. He's not a four net in terms of just build a physicality as a runner. Uh. But you know, to hear him stand up there confidently say that teams passed him. Teams clear to him. That's a big step for him. Now, obviously when we talk to teams, that'll be a little bit, you know, make sure just to verify because you know, you expect him to say that. But hopefully teams come back with similar feedback that hey, you know what he

checked out. Okay, we feel a lot better about it. But what did he do today? Bench press? Yeah, exactly, that's the other point. Yeah, that was twenty two. You're not doing twenty two reps on the bench press if you have a sore shoulder or yeah, concern or shoulder weakness is another thing too, right, That twenty two is more than several of the offensive linemen did today. Yeah, so twenty two is a really good number. That kind

of you touched on it. You know, the bench press, and we can touch on a little bit here, but it doesn't measure football strength. That's not the point of the bench pre us. The point of the bench press is to help with to show your endurance, uh, you know, your your weight room strength. Uh, you know, to show teams that, hey, I spend a lot of time you know, working on my body working out in in that type

of setting. So that speaks highly of Dalvin Cook and the fact that not only does he have, you know, the work ethic where he's he's able to do twenty two reps at two hundred and ten pounds, but also with the shoulders it didn't affect him. So a really good day for Dalvin Cook. Yeah. I think that if you're a team, and again we're a Dallas Cowboys show, I mean we were, we're employed by the Dallas Cowboys. We like to keep the draft show as a is

the best we can. You know, if you're having to be a fan of another team and you're looking for a running back, that's why we're talking about these running But we're here for the big picture. We are you know again we always talk about to investigate and educate, and we do. We you don't even have you don't even have to make a case for somebody who's not a Cowboys fan listening to this. I just I just like I said, you should care about these running backs.

If you should, what happens one of them is going to end up somewhere where you don't want them. Not only that, but what happens to them, and where they go is going to shape the first round of the draft. I mean, we talk about stuff like that all the time. We don't know, you know, is one of these guys the top five pick, top eight pick, is somebody gonna fall? Is Leonard Fournette gonna be there for somebody who didn't think so? And then that in turn affects what the

Cowboys do at twenty eight. I mean, it's all a domino effect. It's all linked together. So to sit here, and yes, the Cowboys do not need a running back. Yes, neither one of these guys will play for the Cowboys, but they might play against the Cowboys. And not only that, but where they go could have absolutely what are you thinking about? We you had a chance to debate Pete Prisco at your other job, CBS Sports. He was against the two hundred and forty pound Leonard Fournette, and Fournette

did say that he was surprised by that. Yeah, he thought he'd be more around two thirty five the water weight. Yeah, and now I'm using this as an excuse, so I'm so big. It's the waterway. How much water you've been drinking? Maybe two hundred and sixty pounds worth of waterway, So it'll be interesting. I'm using an excuse. Now we'll see what he is as a pro day. He said he feels most comfortable at two thirty five. You know, I

don't think it's a big deal. You know, Fournette, if he's two thirty to two forty, as long as he's somewhere in there, I think he'll be just fine. I mean, people forget that Derrick Henry last year was two forty seven, right, yeah, point, I don't remember a lot being made about that. I mean, Fournette is a freak. I made a big deal about it because I wasn't a huge Henry fan, but the big back like that. Right. But you didn't think he was necessarily overweight. No, I just think he was overweighted

at all. That's just how he's built. That's how he's built. Nothing with Fournette, right, two hundred and forty pounds does not make him overweight. If he runs, if he is two thirty, does he run that much faster? I don't think so. That's just think that's who he is. He also set up there that you know, if somebody asked him to play at two twenty five, he thought he could. No, I mean that's what he's comfortable playing at that two hundred and thirty pounds. Williams at the combine in nineteen

ninety nine was two hundred and forty two pounds. Okay, he probably played more like two twenty five to thirty throughout his career because he quickly found out that right at Texas, get away with it. Yeah, but in the NFL it worked better at at a lower weight. Yeah. Well, I you know. The thing to me was I thought was interesting too with Dalvin Cook. Dalvin Cook said he's the best running back in this draft. He's not wrong.

I mean, you get here and I feel like that's almost and we think this is a good group of running back. That's damn near a consensus opinion, honestly, Like, I don't hear that many people standing on the table saying Leonard Fournette has a definitively better back. No, if there's not as much debate about it as I honestly thought there would be. Since all right, since the summer, Dalvin Cook, to me, has been the top back. And I've always said I don't think he's Zeke. I think

he's a step behind Zeke. But to me, I will take him over Fournette. And I love Fournette, He's a freak. He belongs in the first round. Cook is just a better all around back. And if I feel good about the durability the long term, you know, ability to hold up, and then Cook should be the first running back draft that.

It'll be interesting to see if NFL teams agree with that or might they go with you know, when Fournette goes out there and runs a four four eight, you know, at two hundred and forty pounds, if maybe all right, he just too much of a freak, we can't pass on him, you know that. See that's the funny thing about it, Because I asked you this question yesterday about would if Dalvin Cook is your number one back, would a four four eight from Leonard Fournette change your opinion

about him as far as where you would have him. No, because I know he's fast now, I mean even if he ran in the four threes, it's not gonna change my opinion, right because because of the tape. Well, and for a back, how much does a forty yard dash really matter? Well, I mean we've seen with I mean with Zeke. I mean it's a four four six maybe, but I'm talking about the finish that's four plays a year, where like you know, you're straight in, like you know,

BurnAWAY spin. You know, you could argue it makes a difference between Zeke and DeMarco Murray. But I agree. I mean, tenths of a second on the forty should not dictate your pecking order. I mean you should decide that on something more concrete. In my opinion, talked we talk about forty yard dash. I think corner and wide receiver it matters a lot more. You know, the vertical and you want to see that. But when it talking about running back, I care about about the three cone, the short shuttle,

the change of direction. Oh, now you're speaking my leg. I want to see what Fournette does in those drills. Now, if he performs exceptionally well or exceptionally better than Cook, then now I'm gonna not gonna change my rankings, but I'm gonna go back to the tape and say, Okay, he's a lot better than Cook was, or you know, just on the quantitative data. Let's go back to the tape and figure out, Okay, do we miss something what's

going on here? I think I think to me, when you talk about corners, when you talk about receivers, right, even linebackers, running backs, give me the twenty yard shuttle. I will when I when I used to do this, when I used to sit in that RCA dome, I would go everybody else would go watch other drills. I'd

sit down there and watch the twenty shuttle. That's the one that's the drill where they start in the middle, you go to you know, ten one way with one hand, go ten the other, and then come back and finish. Look at those times, those are the one you get some guys to get in that under four that's on that three cone, that's that's same thing for me. Yeah, that's how I feel about that. If you get under

seven in the three cone, you're you're doing some work. Yeah, because you can't if you're stiff, even a little bit, you can't. You can't hide that you're it's gonna be exposed. And so the short shuttle and the three cone both they showed that not only initial burst, change of direction, uh to flexibility, and then the finish how can you close? So I think, yeah, if you're a little bit stiff, you're not gonna be able to hide. You're gonna get

exposed in those drills. Yeah, I I totally agree with you. I that's what I say. I used to sit down there and watch guys go one after another, and you you could tell, you could tell a lot about well, okay, wait a minute, this guy on tape, you could tell why stiff right because you watched that, you watched that drill. Of these running backs, of these running backs that work

out tomorrow, Who's gonna work out the best? Who do you feel like and who do you feel like it's gonna be the guy that when it's all said and done, we're gonna go okay, that that that kid right there helped him the most. I think he'll be cook um of the top of those top guys that will work out the best of the cook and then the fournette McCaffrey, McAffrey, Kamara, you know Samuel. I mean, I mean I've got him.

He might not be eceive, he's hunt. I mean, who who of that group do you think will have the best workout? I think I think he'll be cooked. I think McCaffrey will be up there. He came in at only two hundred two pounds, only put up ten and it was a wobbly ten. Yeah, bench Um, he just that's his body type. You know, he's probably maxed out. So you know, it's talk about him as a feature back. You know, can he hold up? Is he a three down player? Uh? He kind of said today he feels disrespected,

you know, he feels like he is that type of player. Uh. And So the player that I think I'm most intrigued about in terms of his workouts is Deonte Foreman from Texas, guy that a lot of folks interested in. That one dominated the Big twelve. Sure's and you hate the defense

in the Big twelve? What defense exactly? And at two hundred and thirty three pounds, I want to see how he works out, not not the forty, but I want to see the change of direction, the short shuttle, the three cone because we don't see that film, do you know, Because yeah, you see a lot of power, you see a like see power. You don't see shifty moves. You know, don't see miss to make the first guy miss right because honestly a lot of times he didn't have to,

you know, because that's again Big twelve defense. So uh, I want to see how he performs. He talking to him earlier, he thinks he's he feels pretty good about how he's going to test, and so I'm eager to see if he lives up to that. Everybody in mind McCaffrey, I mean, and McCaffrey's kind of the forgotten man. I mean, and he does he does he have a right to be that he feels that feels slighted by everybody, probably considering how damn good and versatile he was in college.

And I'm gonna I'm gonna do it again and say, like I don't is he like an every down back in the NFL. I don't know about that, but I totally get where he's coming from in the sense that he feels like I mean, he should feel like he is. All these guys should be confident in what they can do. Me personally, And this is biased, but I've I've known who Leonard Fournette was since I was like sixteen. I mean, he's the stuff of like folklore in right in Louisia.

Watched the highlights at night? Uh well not and I don't not even just college watch safety. He's just crumpled the stuff coming out about him when he was a high schooler, like balling seniors around as a freshman in high school. I mean, Leonard Fournette was a household name in Louisiana before he ever put on an LSU helmet, And this is this is suited for him, And if he doesn't really really ball out in the workouts, I will not only be surprised but disappointed because it's all

been this is what he was. But I actually asked him about that today. I was like, people in talk people have been talking about you entering the draft process since before you even got to college, Right, does it feel weird that you're actually here, like you're actually doing it now? And I don't know. There's just been too much hype about this guy for him to not come out and show out. So I'm looking for him to really blow people away. I'm looking forward to seeing Cook

workout tomorrow. I'm looking forward to seeing Gallman workout from Clemson is another one that I think that I'm in Kamara from Tennessee and then Hunt I'm looking. I'm looking. I'm looking for those guys tomorrow myself because I've got them at certain points on my board and I want to know, though, is that is the workout, matching the tape and then you know when you can. And McCaffrey

falls into this too, for sure. But when you consider what the Cowboys could use and what each of these guys do and where the Cowboys pick, Kamara is a guy that really intrigues me, just in the sense that, like, I don't have to scratch him off the board right away like I do with Fournette, and also he could be a complimentary back to Ezekiel Elliott. I mean, do

you think Cowboy fans would scream yes if they've drafted McCaffrey. Yes, well, yeah, because you had to draft in the first round and right, no if you took him at twenty eight, and I think you would you have to take Kamara at twenty eight? You think, could you? No? No, no, no, well either, but I think you do. Yeah, yeah, I think. I don't think. I mean Kamara from Tennessee, Yeah, you can have he doesn't get to sixty, I don't. I think you go somewhere in the top fifty picks, yeah, or

maybe fifty five. I don't. I think they both do. Maran McCaffrey, Yeah, I agree. And so you're taking running back and back to back years, especially after you're running back did what he did last year. Yeah, it's not you're not. That's allocating your resource as well. I don't that's a tough sell, but McCaffrey, because you don't seem as every down play, I mean as an every down back, you seem as a utility player. And he would be like Lance Dunbar on steroids like he would be they

didn't do anything with lancest steroids. Ooh, and that sounds bad. It would be Lance Dunbar at a much higher He would be able to catch, run and do all. You would be interested to see if fans out there would have a problem drafted in McCaffrey at twenty they I don't need to ask them to know that they would flip. Yeah, I think they'd flip. I mean you could find people who would be on board. Where's on your where's your

top fifty? Oh he's high. He's a first round player. Yeah, I mean he's still where in the twenties for me on my board, and he's he's a first round player. He belongs in the first round. I think he's a feature back. You just kind of tweak your opinion of what a feature back is okay, you know, because he's every down player. Well, you don't want him carrying the ball twenty five times a game, but you want him touching the ball twenty five times, so you know, seventeen

eighteen carries. Put him in the slot. Should I do That's something that I'm not sure fits the Cowboys because they have their Should I do a poll about this? Absolutely, do a pole. Okay, Dave's gonna put up a Twitter poll and let's see if we can get that. Hopefully everybody out there will do that. Okay, we're gonna take our first break when we come back, We're gonna hit that Twitter on the twenty state tune, you're watching the Draft Show. With unlimited data from AT and T, you

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way less official saying convention center as opposed to Lucas Oils. Yeah, yeah, we're not there anymore when this big convention center right across the street, right across the street. So we're here, man in the station. I want to thank Caliber Collision and Tommy John for helping us out being the sponsors. Dave, you're a big fan of that, Tommy John, I am product. I'm really talked about the socks yesterday. I'm really sad I left my Tommy John underwear and Dallas because it

is that. It's the nicest underwear I own. It doesn't ride up, it's just very comfortable. It's very uh a lot of walking here at the combine, no chafing, home, chafing. Whatso. Absolutely the socks are The socks are glorious too, right. I can't there. I can't stress enough what a dynamite product this is. And I hate I hate shilling for I won't shill for something I don't believe in this is, but you believe in this quality product. Yeah, premium underwears

is a real thing until Tommy John. Well, then Tommy John dot com slash cowboys for cowboys. Yeah, Kimmy John, get you some Tommy John underwear with stars on there. Absolutely that's caliber collision and then Tommy John. Thank you both for being along. Okay, we're gonna get into a little twitter on the Twitter. There you go, Dave Hell would take it away. We talked about this sort of yesterday. We remember Speedy Noile talking about maybe he should play corner.

Okay maybe, but and Jabrill Peppers comes into this a little bit too, hmm. Friend of the show, Bobby Belt wants to know Bobby Belt. Good Man, Bobby Belt, who's in Who's in the biggest need of a position change when they get from college to the pro level. I mean, this could be tackles to guards, this could be safeties to corners and vice versa. Yeah, I think Speedy Noil belongs in that conversation. And guy we talked about a phenomenal athlete. He just his routes are terrible and he

drops too many passes the go. But you know, we talked about him yesterday, So we'll move on to someone else. You know, I think Jabro Pepper's it's not necessarily needs a position change. It's just what position do you play him? You know, It's just I think that's the more confusion there. Right for me, I'll say Forest Lamp, you know, the four year starter left tackle. He's in the Zach Martin molt where right, could he potentially play outside a tackle? Sure,

I think it's possible. Uh, just like Zach Martin probably could. But to maximize his talent and the skill set and best put him inside a guard. I think Forrest Lamp has Pro Bowls in his future, like the way he spoke today. Yeah, up there at the podium. You know, he was no, he was very you know, as the questions were firing to him, he was very thoughtful about

your question, your question, your question. I thought, you know, to me, that showed a little bit of organization, a little bit of focus on I want to I'm answering your question. Thank you for that question. I'm answering your question. Thank you for that. I mean, he was that type of guy. I got him ready. I talked him on the phone a couple weeks ago, and he was, no, he was very prepared. He the questions were coming at him. He thanked people for being you know, for getting him

to where he is today. And it meant a lot to him for to be here in this opportunity. I'm gonna I'm gonna throw out a guy. Desmond King from Iowa talked about it. Yeah, and I and I the Draft show. I want to bring up guys. I want to bring up more guys. You know, Desmond King, we talked about Iowa. I think the Sudden Kid too from Tennessee. And I've been pushing this one though about him, and

you know, he's a corner at Tennessee. I saw him at the at the Senior Bowl play safety and cover O. J. Howard in some drills in some seven on seven stuff, and he looked really comfortable doing it, and his speed wasn't attacked. I think as a corner he gets attacked, but as a safety he might have that ability to be able to play back and be able to play down wherever he has to do, have the coverability. I don't know how great of a tackler he could be.

Now I know Desmond King could be a great tackler. Well, let me go back to King for a second. Here. What number are you expecting from him in the forty And we talked about the four or five. Three was kind of the spring number of that people were dealing with, because that's not a terri it's not terrible. But see it on tape, Dave, you could see him on tape not you could see separation. And I physically love how the kid plays. I love how he tackles. I love

how he's willing to stick his head in there. I love how he comes forward, and I think he could do that as a safety though. I just worry about that that that burst in that separation. He can't. He doesn't have to catch up speed. He does not have that catch The more and more we go through this, I kind of I'm not trying to get too off topic, but I think about how hard it might be to retain Bury Church, and how JJ Wilcox is maybe not too big of an improvement on what you already have

in Jeff Heath, and then Byron Jones is there. The deeper we get into this, the more I really like the idea of spending a big time asset on a safety. In terms of what you're options, would you rather spend a big time asset on a safety or a tight

end safety? Yeah? A safety, because looking at the Cowboys, it depends, you know, because I think, I mean, if you're telling me you could have either Oj Howard or I mean Desmond King, it's sixty trying to think, because I mean that's cooker and Adams are off the board. Eight Buddha Baker. Yeah, see, like to me, I'd rather

have Howard. Yeah, you know, I think Howard's a more slam dunk prospect than basically any safety you're going to have a shot at, right, and so that makes a difficult But I think this team could use a really good safety over the next two years more than they could use a tight end. Yeah point, you're absolutely right, Um, But I think at what point in the draft, you know, does King any of the second round? Yeah, I'd like that. I wouldn't have a problem at does King sitting there

at sixty? Watch me go up on the table at the stall and both big feet will be right up on that table. I think this guy's got the ability he can. I just like his demeanor. He's a tough SOB in the way he plays. Okay, I this wasn't gonna be my next question, but this is a good segue. I'm so sorry. I don't have your tweet up. I don't know your name, but somebody asked earlier thought it was a good question because we've talked about him before, and I agree with the question. I have heard Obi

melifon Wu the Connecticut safety jump. Thank you appreciate. I have heard him talked about everywhere from the first round to the third day. I've heard it all. So where what is this guy? What is your range for this guy? I know we've talked about him as a player. I know how y'all. I mean you know, he's not as stiff as you would expect from a six four, two twenty pound safety. He's not. He's got some coverage to him, he does blah blah blah. But where where are you

thinking this guy is actually picked? I think there is a chance he could be that riser this year. The skyrockets in the first round. Uh, you had body beautiful. I think he's gonna test really well at that size. And who was our guy Atlanta took last year And it was the same thing that one to me that came out that came out of nowhere, and he played well as a rookie. Sure did So he's sure and he was a big body guy, right right, And so I think Melofondo, I don't see. I don't see a

first round player. I don't see a second round player when you watch him on tape. This is this is what we're talking about. So, yeah, third, three, four or four. I think of a three to four on him. Yeah, I went, I went straight through. They got borderline top one hundred. But he's not gonna go near that spot. I think second rounds probably his floor in terms of where he's drafted. It's based on what he does here. I think he's gonna test really well and I first

rounds possible. The old man is gonna give you a history lesson. You want to say something smarmie right here now, the old Man's gonna give you a history lesson. Joey Browner, Steve Atwater, big safeties that made it, big safeties that didn't make it. Look up Patrick Bates and look at Patrick Watkins for the Cowboys in the fifth round. That was one that was one of our special days. Talk about a stiff guy that couldn't move, couldn't turn Florida

state guy. Two names, Joey Browner, go back and google that if you're too young. And Steve Atwater, big safeties. I hope you don't need to google Steve Atwater. Noah. But Patrick Bates was a a very high pick by the by the Los Angeles Raiders from UCLA went by Texas by way of Texas, A and M and so. Uh. You know that those are names of guys. They've had some big ones that have failed. You mean an A and M defender didn't pan out, We didn't pan out.

They don't even they don't play defensive, can't with the self burn and this is a draft for the number one player. Not a great thing to say when Miles garretts the number one? You got Dave? Uh that dude, Paul, love that Twitter handle, that dude, Paul. We talk a lot about how corner and defensive end figure to be. There a lot of a lot of players here. Good question here, who where does it drop off after the first round? Like in in Layman's turns. Where are they ft?

You know, like, if you don't get your guy at twenty eight, where is it like you're kind of screwed? Oh geez, I'm looking at I'm looking at on my board, I'm looking at guard. Would that be kind of where it's at? Dane? I mean I've got three centers. I got a second center, a third center, uh fln and then post Sick and OLASKI are my three guys and centers? I mean I could it be a quarterback. Now you're saying if you don't get the guy at if you

don't get the guy, which one about? He's just about position in general, which position has the steepest drop off as the draft goes? Okay, you gotta get your guy earlier. You're not. I think it's tackle personally tackle. Yeah, I mean the quality of the tackle. Their names there. To me, Ram checks the top twenty pick, and then I think there's rob drop off, and then you got Cam Robinson and Garrett Bowls, and then you have another pretty sizable

drop off, and then you got your Taylor Moten's. You're Antonio Garcia's. Uh. But those two guys to me, aren't you know, clear cut starters? They put them sharp from Florida, I mean down the line right, So you know, I think there's I think tackle to me, if you want your guy, if you want to tackle, uh, a starting caliber tackle, especially right away, I think you have to get him early. What I just went at you with that.

I went with the Lamp Dawkins Pheeny combination. Yeah. Okay, all those guards go off the board, all of them go off to the ground. Yeah, they all go off the board in the second round. Now pick me one in the third, fourth, fifth round. See, I've got ethan post in the third. I know, to me, he's not a center. I'd like him as either guard, maybe even kick outside the table gigantic center. Right, I don't he doesn't like six, he doesn't like tall center. I didn't

like Glasgow last year. Because of that, well, I grade him as a guard, a solid guard, but I also had more you have post sick in hered about post like Lsu third round guard. Okay, so then that makes it because I've got him as a center. But that makes it a little bit bearable. Yeah, because I see a gap after the second round. Then you go down into the fourth round. See, I've got plenty of guys

in the third and fourth round at guard. You know, I probably like some guys better than Nico Siragusa from San Diego State. See, I need to do that guy. Need to look at Asiata from Utah, same type. It did a nice job on the bench today. He did um usc guard Damian Mama and you looked at him. Yeah, I think he's kind of okay. So you've got names. You've got names to fill in that spot. So it's not it's pronounced mama. So we had Daddy Nicholas last year and now we got Mama. Okay, good, thanks for

paying attention to draft. Of course. Oh by it's Randall who asked me about Obi Melifon. Thank you, sir, appreciate that shape. Yeah, um question from justin given that this is going to happen soon. Um, and we've talked about this before. But whatever, which drill at the combine translates the most to success for a defensive lineman, which one and interior? I mean he said d lineman. Let's say

pass rusher for the purposes of the Cowboys. There's two drills I pay close attention to, and that's the ten yards split, which is just the initial ten yards. Absolutely shows that initial explosion. But Tom Coughlin used to time every year and then uh, spot it probably returns that maybe this year, maybe Jaguar had just break out the old Jaguar back. Yeah. Uh And for me, I three cone,

that that's the drill I love. But you know, I think, you know, especially for past Russia joints, that flexibility bend right exactly, and that's something in the three cone, the L cone or the L drill. You so can you do that you get around that corner and then finish it right exactly. I think the vertical matters, you know, just that lower body explosion, the broad jump, you know, and that's those drills. The higher the number doesn't tell me that you're better. It's just a threshold drill right

in the vertical and the broad jump explodes. Yeah, I want to see it at least a certain number for you know, each position. So I think for pass rusher, ten yards split the three cone, those are two big ones for me. Yeah, I totally agree with Dane. I mean that ten yard if you see a guy come flying out of their low, you know, he's got some bend and he goes low and then he could plant that foot and turn, you know in a small spot

right there. So I totally agree with him about the three cone because the way the three cone just run, you have to you go up and then you turn and then you circle back, which again shows you the ability for the bend, and the balance is another thing, and then it has you finish it off coming around the corner. You see guys if they get really wide around the and they're they're all balance, You're like whoa, whoa.

And then you see guys that come around the corner and they're real tight to that cone and then they turn. Then you can kind of get something out of that. And we always like we always joke about the underwear Olympics and it's not football and stuff, but it's kind of it's almost startling how like if a guy doesn't look good doing it's just it jumps off the screen, right if the guy is really stiff. Yeah, that's what

I'm saying. If you see a guy that's really stiff, and watch some of these drills tomorrow with the offensive lineman and when they start kick sliding and they and they, it looks like they're getting drugged back the other way. They labor. It's a struggle they can't get away from. That's the whole thing with offensive lineman. Dave, get away from the line, quickly kick and get depth and go. I would never dare sugg obviously, I would never dare

suggest that this is more important than tape. But it's almost like like some of this stuff can get hidden on tape because you like, you got people slamming into you, you got everything's happening. There's ninety guys all over the place, and then you get out here and it's just like you and a coach, and if you don't look good, it shows certain it really certain schemes in college can

help mask some of those issues. And the I know there are several teams that believe this, But the number one trait you look for no matter the position is how a player holds up in space. I know, linebacker, running back, it doesn't matter. How a player holds up in space is huge. And so this is why the combine exists. Uh, you know, aside from the medicals and interviews and all that the on field, that's why they don't do these you know, they have these drills for

a reason. It all matters, and it helps. It helps separate, you know, the athletes from the non athletes, and the guys that you might be a little stiff in the ankles and guys that have that ankle flection that you want. So it really is beneficial. I like you said, you know, it gets tabbed the underwear Olympics, and there's a negative stigma, you know, forty yard dash and that's all people care about. But there's a place for each one of these drills,

and each one of these times it really matter. Yeah, I totally agree with you. And it's always been impressed to me if you have tall guys in their ability to bend. You know that if a tall guy can really get low to the ground. I remember guys like Derek Thomas way back in the day Kansas City. He was a blur at Alabama. I just remember how low he used to get to the ground, and those offensive tackles had such a problem getting their hands, no hitting space,

no hitting surface. Tall guy, and he's dipping and running at the same time. You get the guy that can dip and run. That's what I liked about Noah Spence. Yeah, when you watch Noah Spence, you always find a way to bring your pet cats back. No. But I'm just saying, though, if you when you watch guys work drills, give me the guy that can bend and can get his shoulder down past the tackle and get to the point of

the quarterback. And so what makes Miles Garrett, you know, kind of the favorite to be the number one overall pick because that he's DeMarcus Ware to me, you know, that's that's the player I see that caliber of players six four, two hundred fifty five pounds around there. The length, the athleticism, the body, control, the balance, it's all there

to be a product the pass rusher. So yeah, I think going back to the original point about what we look for in defensive linemen, uh, you know, it really comes down to, you know, these explosion drills in the change of direction. Got time for one more? Yeah? Sure, how about one more? All right? And I'm gonna totally put y'all on the spot, but we're gonna do it

anyway us, okay, Paul. Paul wants to know if you could see a scenario that involves a trade up in the first round, which fans love that like s like they love to talk about the trade up, which yeah, I'm and we're gonna do without a player in this scenario. I'm you're talking about a guy that you didn't think would be in your range? Who And yeah, I mean

you're you're giving up picks, I guess. I mean I'm thinking, like right out letting the DeMarcus Lawrence scenario that was a trade up in the second but he was the last end that they liked and they made a move and got him. More Morris Clayborne situation. Yeah, where's yeah better a guy that's high on their board, but all of a sudden, we didn't think he'd be available here, let's go get them asolutely. And I think you have to keep that option open. You know, you don't go

into the draft thinking, no way we trade up. You have to keep your an open mind too. Okay and go over these scenarios ahead of time. If player X is you know, get to a certain point, that's when we start making some calls and figure out, Okay, what's it gonna take. And I think for me, pass rusher

is what we're looking at. Yeah, almost like certainly I would say, right Barnett, Barnett, I think even Harris, you know, if one of these because he passwords aren't going to last very long, you know they're gonna fly off the board and you need one. Can you really wait back and just get your guy? Or do you need to maybe move up a little bit uh to go get him? I think that very well could be the case this year.

And if a Barnett, a Harriss, if they fall into the twenties to early twenties, maybe you package that third round or to go up and get him. Have you have no? Five? Yeah? Which makes this tough? It sets you back? It does it? Does you go get your player if you if you think he's a guy bold contribute from day one and help you right away, you go do it? And you know what's fun? And I

notoriously hate doing that. I like picks, but I feel so much better about getting rid of ninety two to go get a guy that I think can help me than I would have getting rid of sixty seven. I mean, sixty seven got you MALIEK. Collins, who was number two on the team at sacks, right. I So it's a way more tenable idea when you're talking about picking at the back of the round. In my opinion, if Davis from Western Michigan receiver would slide, would you go up

for him? Slide wearer? He slides to twenty Denver and all it takes to my third round, you gotta go, You gotta go three to go, get there, come on Denver. Yeah, yeah, I probably would, But I don't see any way that he's gonna fall that far. Well maybe maybe with the medical information nobody ever sees. Nobody ever sees it. Dane Larry Tunso went nine last while that was a little fourteen,

I believe even further than Yeah. I mean, if he falls because of injury, then it's a little different discussion, you know, because you're trading for an injury guy. Yeah, you know, he's a really good receiver and teams are passing on him, you know, for a reason. So that would be a little difficult, but I think, go out. Don't want to cut you up? No, I think yeah. I mean Corey Davis is one of those guys where he's he's really good. And if I have a chance to go get him and all I have to give

up as a three, yeah, I'm gonna go do it. Yeah, I see. This is why I always put out there the if you could get Tony Romo to flop the Denver situation, sure, where if you could get him to reduce this contract Denver just to flop spots with you where everything is clean for everybody. They keep their one, you keep your one. They get it, so doe they get They're they're essentially by allowing you to come up

to twenty. From twenty eight to twenty, they're giving up a third round pick, but they're really not giving up a third round pick, right, They're just giving you the opportunity to select a player at twenty, which I think is the cleanest way to do this with the Bronco. How much more exciting does the draft become for us if they're picking at twenty and now we're talking about a whole new player. We'll be ready. We'll be wrong enough, of course, we will be ready. I can't. I don't.

I don't think I could convince myself to do that deal unless it was for a pass rusher like receiver. I can let receiver come to me. And I know I'm not saying Corey Davis isn't a good player, but I feel much better letting that come to me. But if you're gonna tell me, Charles Harris is the last guy that fits the scheme that Marinelli's really on board with, and that's that's the guy, which is kind of ironic. People, I have Charles Harris just outside that first round using no, no,

I know you are, I know you are. Whoever it is, I feel if that's the guy that you gotta go get go get him, Which it's ironic because that's what they did with Lawrence and it hasn't really panned out. But whatever. Yeah, all right, Well, hey, thanks everybody for twitter on the twenty. We appreciate all the questions. We'll do this again tomorrow night, so make sure you are following at the draft show. Like I say, that's the best way to get your questions in, so hopefully Dave

will select them and get them answers. So coming back here on the Draft show from the Inneapolis Combine. I want to get into what if a player doesn't like football. We'll talk about that next. To work this big plan, you need equipment with values rooted as deep in Texas soil as you are, like John Deer Compact tractors for the six year power train warranty in big features that help you work less so you have more time to

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that the executive producer of the Draft Show. As always, we thank you guys for joining us here. We got about out fifteen more minutes left in the in the program. We're just gonna remind you too that we want to thank Caliber Collision and Tommy John for bringing us out here to Indianapolis and letting us participate in this. Dave, you put up a pole yes draft at the Draft show poll asking would it's been up if if Christian McCaffrey was the Cowboys pick. There you got twenty eight.

My choices were you would flip out in a good way or flip out in a bad way. Right, There's been five hundred votes in the twenty minutes. That's very much for doing that. Seventy one percent of people said bad way and said no, get that guy off my team. I don't want that surprised by that. They're Dane Brugler. No, that's I mean that's what I thought, and that's not that's how would you vote on this? Yeah, seventy times. Uh no, no offense to mister McCaffrey. Right, Cowboys fans

are smart. I mean, I I love McCaffrey, I do. I think he's an outstanding player. I'd love to have him on my team. But for this team, this situation, Uh, you know, give me a guy that is gonna see more snaps. He's gonna impact my team more than I think McCaffrey would. Yeah, that's predictable. Yeah, but yeah, I think it's Uh, I think it's a good day. I think you're right about not to mention. Just get Joe Mixon three three rounds later. Oh that's another poll question. Yeah,

Joe Mixon. That's uh. That would be a Cowboys fans like, let's they're like, would you draft Joe Mixon in the fourth round? It would be like ninety two to eight probably. You know the guy that was the most adamant about Joe Mixon not being here, and he went on record and said it was John Dorsey actually to the general manager from the Lions was yeah, he was adamant about I'm sorry, man, who is the general enter from the Live Quinn, Yeah, I'm sorry. I usually know all these guys.

I don't know Bob very well. Find Dorsey during his pressor today kind of retracted that a little bit set them a little more and waft. Yeah, but I'll tell you what though a lot of guys, it's like I say, it's a it's a subject for another thing. March eighth will be his pro day, but we thank everybody for voting for that thing. Okay, I want to get into this for the last ten minutes or so and just take your opinion here of as we get to visit and maybe not so much us, but you get an

idea about these kids. You get a little bit of a you know, they're in this setting, they're thrown out there, they're asked there, ask questions. They do their best to to answer the questions. But what if you get a kid And this came up with Leonard Fournette today. Yeah, Leonard Fournette's interview. If you go back and watch thee he really talked about, you know, not really being a football fan. Yeah, you know, And so I want to know because I've I've had experience. I want to get

your guys takes on. What if you get a player that comes off as he's that that football is not important to him, you know, and especially a guy that's a very high pick. And I'm not picking on Leonard Fournette. I'm just saying, what if what if a player came up as part of the interview process and you found out he really doesn't love football, but when you watch the tape he's one of your twenty best players on your board. We have to It's a difficult discussion because

how do you know he doesn't like football? I think that's if you if in your interview process, right, But if you get the feeling that he's not totally buying it, you know, he goes I played football, I've got a lot of other interests. Martelli Spinnett. I'll just use very talented football player, second round player from Texas A and M. If you interviewed Martella Spinnett, you would see that there's a lot more to life than football for him. And

that's not a bad than you Christian McCaffrey. You know, he can play at the piano, he can do all these things, you know, I mean, see what he got me. I love bringing that up to me. I don't know. I struggle with this because it's tough to really and I think all teams struggle with this. It's not to get in their head, you know. I want to talk to their coaches. They're high school coaches, you know. I want to find out how important football was to them.

I don't need to have a guy who loved the NFL growing up and watched every game, and that's you know, in general, I need a guy game. I need guys gonna work hard. Okay, If a guy and that, to me, that's a big thing. If if a guy treats this as a job, I'm okay with that. You know, there are players on the Cowboys right now who might not love football but treat it as a job collect a paycheck more than fans would probably guess exactly. And I

think every team does that, not just the Cowboys. All thirty two teams have players who might not love football, but they like it and they realize that the doors that it opens. And that's what I heard from Fournette today. Yeah, I'm not sure I heard a guy that just head over heels loves football, but he understands the doors that herd at it. He does. He said he never, he

never thought that football would give him these opportunities. Sure, and so I think he understands that, you know, these are doors that are open to him because of what he can do in the field. And so I'm not worried about Fournette squandering that away. And so I think that's where you have to kind of walk that fine line.

It's okay not to love football, but you have to like it enough to the point where you're going to work your butt off and you're going to put in everything you can because you know what equals the paycheck. And I would even go as you don't have to Yeah, you don't have to love football. You have to be you have to be driven by something and whether it's whether it's feeding your kids or changing your families, you know, social status, or being the best player ever and getting

in the Hall of Fame. There's plenty of guys that care about stuff like that, and like you know, Dak Prescott cares about where he is in the pantheon of the game. I did not get the sense that Leonard Fournette cares about that. But I agree. I get the sense that Leonard Fournette will work his ass off for other reasons to be good at football. Um, going back, very brief history lesson last year, how much of a joker who did not care about football? Did Joey Bosa seem? Like? Yeah, great, fair,

that's fair, that's very fless. He's like cracking jokes at the media. He's just kind of like he's like too cool. He's got bad posture, defensive Rookie of the Year, double digit sacks even though he sat out some games. That's very fair. You can you can be driven by plenty of stuff other than Honestly, I don't care if you don't want to win a super Bowl, as long as you're willing to work your ass off to help the team win a super Bowl, you know what I mean? Like,

does that make sense? Did you get the oppression though? The Cowboys weren't interested in Joey Bosa because they thought he was a clown? I mean no, I never really got that sense. Would you think that he was on their board? Right? You know, you know you know who's playing running back for them right now? Right? Who for the Cowboys? Ezekiel Elliott? Sure? Is he not a bit of a clown? No? He loves football. He loves football to his core. But is he a class clown? He

is joke. I just got the impression that he is a big kid. I got the impression that there were some people that didn't weren't in love with Joey Bosa because yeah, I mean see, And that's that's the fine line we're talking about. That goes back to the right kind of guy. Whether that's right. I mean, that's but you're trying to evaluate these players. But I want glass eaters.

But those people would be wrong because I look at Bosa. Now, if they didn't, you know, they didn't like his demeanor, Okay, you know, and that's not all everyone on the roster is going to be that way. They're not all always gonna be wired exactly how you want ideally. Sure, you know you've got choir boys, You've got guys that are wired to play football at a high level, and you know, every single start or every single first round pick, it's just not the case. You know, it's just not that's

not how it works on how people work. So it's a fine line you have to walk in. In Bosa, I think, is a great example, because you know, he doesn't come off like that. You know, student of the game, it really cares or important, right, But I mean he talked to his coaches and they he didn't miss a practice and he gave full effort, you know, week in week out. I was wrong about him. Yeah, however, and however he might feel about football speaking, I'm very close

to the l S TUE program. Leonard Fournette is was the heartbeat of that roster. I mean he was the guy. He paced their practices, he demanded excellence, all that type of stuff you want to hear about those types of No. Okay, Christian McCaffrey skipped his bowl game, which wete well, that was he was. He wasn't fully healthy. Yes, Fournett gets a little bit of a pass there, but McCaffrey was healthy and he decided not to play. Now you blame him.

It's a business decision. You know, he's not getting paid for that. He's not getting paid to play in a Sun Bowl, you know, right, So I understand I don't fault him. But for you, if you're in that war room, is that an indication that he maybe he doesn't love football as much as you want him to. I think that to me, and this is now you talk about you have your issues. This is where I have mine. I don't blame the player for after what I saw happen to Jalen Smith. And I thought Jalen Smith wasn't

gonna get drafted. Yeah, I thought Jalen Smith wasn't going to ever play again in the second round, and he went in the second round topt he and he might not have gone to the Cowboys if two picks ahead of them had not gone off the board. Yeah, yeah, Agma, and and the two defensive ends went off the board. And now now you could see Stephen Jones and him scramble a little bit trying to get on the phone to get rid of that pick. But they take who was who was way up there on their board. He was,

he was a top five player for them. But I'm just saying though, to me, I it it doesn't bother me about the guy skipping because I don't fault Leonard Fournette. Fournette, I don't fault him after what I saw with Jalen Smith. If you were playing for a national championship or in the playoff system and they and they decide that they

don't want to do that. Now I have a little bit of a little bit of pause there, I'm like, Okay, why are you not if you're letting, you're letting all these other you're letting the Brian brought uses of the world down. Who's who's not a superstar? Yeah? But but has a chance of the National Championship ring And I I will venture I guess you will never see like a quality football player ever. Do that, like sit out of a game that truly and really matters, right, because

it just bothers me. I would I would be I would be very concerned about a player that just didn't love football. And I totally respect what you're saying. And maybe it's the old school part of these to the Jason Witness of the world for fourteen years, Yeah, but he's done nothing but love football. Who does Jason Witten sitting next to in the Cowboys locker room and they're like thick as thieves. Cole Beasley who left training camp and came back, he's actually Jason Jason. If you remember,

Jason Witten wasn't too happy with Cole Beason pissed. He was pissed at Cole Beasley quit Cole Beasley can't mean he came back. He obviously did what he needed to do. He took it on and and you know they're brothers, just like everybody else takes all different sorts. It could be just as you know, a guy with some character issues. You know, it's a red flag, it's something that requires further investigation, and then when you drafted him, it's a little bit of a risk. But plenty of character guys

work out, you know, for the better. Yeah, I want to say this real quick too. And Fournett's interview was not inspiring. I'm not trying to give him a pass, but people who do you compare yourself to? Who do you model your game after? With the way these guys are coached, it's very possible he just didn't want to say any names and wind up in the headline. I'll be honest, Zeke's interview last year nothing. I ain't got

nothing out of it. Remember, and this is going way back, DeMarco Murray never he didn't want to say him at Smith's name, like, he did not want to talk about him at Smith. He didn't want to be compared to him. He didn't want to again, you know, Leonard Fournette could be sitting up there thinking like The last thing I need is for Pro Football Talk to write Fournette. I see myself as Adrian Peterson, right, And so that could

just be self preservation. I mean, we sit here and we're thinking Scott doesn't watch football football, Maybe he's just being smart. Okay, take the media side out of it, though, But if he okay, what if he did carry what we saw over there into those rooms and you kind of got the vibe and you're not really sure how to read him. I think you're seeing like he does he really care about I mean, you watch the tape, you could see he cares about football because he runs

over people. But is it really his long term? Is it his long And when you're investing in a guy like Jason Witten, you invested for fourteen years and that's what you got. He has driven enough. He has been a hyped prospect since he was twelve years old, and he has driven enough too. Didn't deliver on the team aspect of it, obviously, LS, you didn't accomplish a lot while, but he has delivered on every bit of the promise of what he could be in terms of his talent.

And he's here now, so you know he's driven and he's a freakish athlete. I would not let any of those types of concerns dissuade me from drafting him. And I don't think you're wrong. I remember a couple of years ago Dominique easily talking to him, him telling me that he, uh, he didn't watch football growing up or even now, like he preferred to watch cartoons. Yeah, And I wasn't sure how to take that, right, because it's one thing growing up, it's another thing right now. You

don't again, you don't have to love football. You don't have to love the NFL and watch a day in day out. You need a release. And I understand that, but just the way he came off it was very concerning and Fournette and then he had another bad quote today where you know, he said, yeah, me and Dalvin Cooker friends, like, well, when you talk, what do you talk about? You talk about the game, And he's like, no, man, we just talk about life, like football players don't want

to talk about football all the time. And he's got a child too, so football And that is a totally understandable sentiment. But when you hear a guy say it, you're just kind of like, yeah, right, why don't you want to talk? No, I just I just was my concern as if you go in these meetings or these rooms and you're trying to separate these players if they're so, you know, is does this guy really love football? Does he? Is he passionate about the game? Does he? Is he that?

You know? That might be the thing that might be the stack that puts one guy on top of that. It's just something when you're building the board and a lot of these guys go through and I mean Dalvin Cook's answers in that regard were way better. So if you think they're close, right, yeah, the tape is great on both of them, but what you know what you would do? So anyway, all right, well, hey, that's all the time we have for the Draft show today discussion. Yeah,

thank you guys. I want to thank Dane Brugler has done a great job here. I mean, he's got a couple more days of working with us, He's done a lot of interviews around, A very popular guy here at the radio row, a lot of knowledge there, so we're very fortunate to have him. David Helmet, thank you again too for everything you've done. Ken Garrison for keeping us on the air. We appreciate that. I want to thank also Derek Eagleton back home and Taylor Stern for always

their help and pushing all this out. We'll be back with you guys tomorrow at five pm Central for another additional draft show. Be able to talk about some workouts. You've got the old line and then the running backs going off tomorrow and we'll have some more interviews and thoughts for that as well, So stay tuned and we'll see you tomorrow. H