Draft Show: LIVE @ The 2017 NFL Combine - Day 1

to roll? I've been ready to roll? What way? We've been here for almost two days already, Yeah, kind of getting the sights and sounds, Yeah, getting the lay of the land, getting everything figured out here. It's it's been an interesting combine for us already because of the new setup here, and we used to be at the stadium at Lucas Oil. We used to have a radio row right out in front of the club area. We're now in the convention center across the street. Dane, it is

a different setup. We've now got the podiums around us here with all the different groups, the teams, NFL network, all the all the all the bells and whistles you would want in a big time production. It's a circus. There's a circus. There's a lot going on, and you know, I get it. There's a lot of a lot of attention for an event like this, and so you know, it's over a thousand credential media here, a lot of radio, a lot of TV, a lot of videos. So they

need space. But it's not the best setup for you know, everyone. They get there what they need done. It'll be interesting next few days when they start to bring players in, get all those interviews done. It should be an interesting few days here at the new setup at the Combine. I've always believed, guys, this is about really the teams, and we've we've seemed to make it about ourselves about the teams. It should be about the teams. It should

be about the teams. But that's that's great though, you know, it's nice from the fans and the media do get to be involved. You know, we'll have something here. This will be a first for me covering the Combine and being a part of the comment since nineteen ninety two.

The fans will actually be in the weight area though, where they're lifting on the other side as you look at the screen, which would be to our right, to your left on the other side of this curtent over here, they'll have the actual where the fans can participate and watch the bench press the two twenty five. So they have a lot of interactive stuff here. They've got a lot all the set up. On the other side, they've

got the bench press. I never believe that this would ever be on TV, but lo and behold, it is now on TV. So we'll get a chance and the first groups we have out and the first group won't get to work now. The first groups will be offense and defensive linemen and then the running backs. They will not be on the field until Friday. So if you're looking for something Friday, uh, you know, uh, that's not gonna that That's that will be the time you'll look

for something. Thursday. You'll have interviews like like Dane said, David said, all these podiums around will have the players on. We'll get the opportunity, can't garrison. We're filming a lot of this. We'll be able to bring a lot of it, uh to you. So you're gonna make sure you follow, you know, at the draft Show and DP Burglar and then David Hellman Hellman DC, Right, that's the line, I

get it right that time. But so a lot of things going on, and I just want to kind of talk about really what we're gonna do and a couple of things too. CALIBERO Collision and Tommy John. We want to thank them two of our sponsors that are part of the Draft Show, part of bringing us here, and we appreciate that. Uh. I want to get into some things today, UH with uh with in regard are too some I don't know if these are true or false from the combine, but just have some questions for you

guys that I would like to to maybe address. We're gonna do Twitter on the twenty. Make sure you get your questions into David Hellman at the Draft Show. You should be following the Draft Show because you can pick it up on Periscope all that you know, Happy to have you, happy to have the show for you, live there. But we get your questions on Twitter on the twenty and then Dane Burglar came up with a list of

sixty players that he's looking at for the Combine. Guys that have the most to gain, Guys that have the most to lose. I've got my idea of some guys too. We'll get into that. That'll be in the last part of the show. We can't take phone calls here, so sorry about that, but we can sure interact with you on that anyway. Well, sometimes the show just goes so fast that you can't do that. But you know, when

we get back to the Star we'll do that. So I want to ask you, guys though, something just about the combine and what you might think and and it's has to do love with guys working on, guys not working out. And I don't know if it's true or false or however you want to say it, but just

going into this guy like Corey Davis Wide Receiver. When you got two guys, two sets of guys working out Wide Receiver, Corey Davis and Mike Williams, one of them working out, one of them not working out, talk about that. Does Corey Davis lose some ground here in this workout when you know with the fact that you have guys that are working out. And we can also talk about it too a little bit with Jamal Adams and the

Malik Hooker. You know, we were talking about high guys in this draft that somebody might mean it is one set of guy. One guy working out and the other one not. Does that affect Maybe putting one over the other from just the combot could, And I think it depends on how that other player works out. You look at Mike Williams. If he goes out, runs a four or five two and performs well in the other drills, I think he helps himself. And you know, Corey Davis

doesn't have a chance to answer. Now he might at the Pro Day, but for now, Mike Williams gets a little bit, get a little bit of a leg up. I'm glad you said that, And that's what I was gonna say, because I don't think so. Maybe the Hooker one's interesting because Hooker, I mean, pro Day is probably not a good bet either, right can depending on how much time. Ever he has said that he's healing quicker than expected, but it's still that's that would be a

lot to ask. Now you know he's coming off not only the labor but the hernia. I mean, you know, I don't know, it'd be a tough thing to do to come back and work out before the draft. In the case of a Hooker or a McKinley where they might not work out at all before they're drafted. Yes, I think that's not good. Now we get the oppression that McKinley is going to try and work out, I don't. Yeah, he's gonna be here and working out at the combine.

He's gonna have surgery and Mark, Yeah, so you're gonna get, You're gonna get. He's gonna he's gonna work out, and that might be the only opportunity, like you said, and my my main point being is if you have a chance to work out, whether it's okay and that like that's unusual to do the combine and then have the surgery. Right, if you have a chance to work out, I don't think it matters. So Corey Davis, he's going to have

his pro day. And that's even guys who work out here who are bad, don't we always say, like, well, he'll have a chance to make up for it at the pro day. He was slower than he wanted to be. He can run his bench was bad, he can do it again at the pro day. If you get one chance, if you have a chance to work out, I don't think it really matters. But to what you just said he only has one chance. So you know, if Mike Williams runs a four or five eight here, that helps

Corey Davis a little bit. But then Mike Williams has a chance to improve run better at the clumsy well, yeah, exactly. And then and that's the other point is pro days, you know, they're they're weight a little differently depending on team to teams, scout to scouts, you know, tur for grass, what's the weather, what's going on as an indoor outdoor, So the pro days are a little different here. And that's why I really enjoyed the combine because everything's done

on the same field. You know, you don't have to deal with any conditions. It's it's same for everybody. So for a situation like Corey Davis and Mike Williams could end up being a blessing in disguise for Corey Davis. Mike Williams goes out there and runs a four or five eight, four to six one and doesn't really perform as expected, could end up working out in Corey Davis's favor and he goes his pro day and does well. But on the flip side, Mike Williams could run well

here and Corey Davis. Maybe he just has an off day and the pro day, you know, doesn't run as well. So the time that the scouts were working off of for Mike Williams this spring and actually from the spring and then into the fall was a four four zero. That's not having him, I mean, and I mean he doesn't look like a four four athlete to you, does he? No? And I was just curious about that, though, mean, but

you think he's more in the four five range? You think, Yeah, I think a four or five two is kind of what the athlete I see. I don't, you know, you watch him on tape, you don't see him, you know, creating that separation vertically. He's just not that type of athlete. He's a good athlete, right, not saying he's not. I just think he's more of a low four fives guy. But you know, the guy like Laquon Treadwell last year, right, more in the high four or fives and similar type

of deal. We didn't really expect him to run a four four. Does a guy that didn't show a lot of separation on tape still a good athlete, yeah, but didn't really have the four yard dash? You expected, So Mike Williams would be really interesting to see what he runs. If Mike Williams comes out there and does run less, if he does get in the fourth, say he runs the same time that Corey, that Corey Davis would run that they were working on four four eight? I mean,

is that is that one of those things? Does that maybe make you flip your mind a little bit about him? Not me personally, Mike Williams is my top receiver anyway, right, so you know, if you were a team though, if you're a team, if your team Brian brought us that, like Corey Davis better, I would hate to change my grade on a player based on a four or five two to a four or five. You know, and trust the tape, you know, And that's a great name for a podcast. Yeah, but would it make you feel different

about the player? Not really. I don't know. If you ran a four four zero, then I'm going back to the tape and figuring out, Okay, what am I? What am I missing here? Yeah? Because he doesn't look like a four for oh athlete, But in the combine in the Pro day, just for like confirming things that I think the fact when kids run out here and run fast. I think that I think scouts leave this place with a different feeling about them, hopefully not drastically different than

what they already had. We've seen that. I think like a Will Fuller last year, sure goes out runs the fourth three two, but that was expected. That's his game. He's a vertical athlete. I just want to guess I'm trying to say this with a combine itself and when people and I'm not just talking about the receivers. I'm

talking about when anybody tests well. And you're right, I mean, there's it's the history is littered with with the Mike Mamulas of the world and guys like that that have been drafted on the on the the measurables from the combine. But I think what I'm trying to my question with you guys though, is you know Will Will Will there be an advantage? Will there be an advantage for And we could talk about these things because these two safeties

could be taken. They could be taken, and I think back to back, whichever you whichever way you want to go, I think that is a better that's a better one for me, because like I said, I mean, we might not see Hooker workout before he gets drafted, which in that case, I would give Jamal out. To talk about the importance of the workout, I would give Jamal Adams the edge because he's gonna have opportunities to show what

he can do and prove all that stuff. In the case where we expect Corey Davis and Mike Williams to both work at some point, then I think it's a wash. I don't. I mean, sure, maybe you way to combine a little more heavily than the pro day, but you're still getting a chance to see what they can do in these drills. And I don't think there's a right or wrong. Uh, you know, I I see I disagree with you on the safety. You know, I don't care

if Lee Cooker works out or not. Well, I know you like Yeah, I still like him better than fall Out, you know, so, but that might not be true. You know, team, the team, they might feel so coming into this combine again and we're about to tape. Don't don't get us wrong, We're about to take of course. But if but if one of those guys does go out there and do something, then they get your team. I mean, that's something to be buzzing into this room. It's an opportunity, absolutely. I

mean it's a chance. And so that's but you know that works both ways. You know, if he goes out and disappoints, then you know you're shooting yourself in the foot where Corey Davis isn't know at this point. So it could work both ways. But it's a chance, there's no doubt about that. Wait, I think that's interesting. I mean we're talking about you know, what if somebody blows you away, right, how heavily do you weigh somebody blowing you away at the combine or somebody like really disappointing

you at the combine? I mean, oh no, that's the and and really the diary of that has written person well as well. And I think I sit here and say, you know, somebody blowing you away at the combine shouldn't change how you feel about them too much. I think it has to do with it, like somebody like the quarterbacks throwing the ball. Yeah, it's always that the worst quarterback workout of the combines. Yeah, when you're watching the combine and you're sitting at home watching this, you know,

you really the whole idea is about the tape. In this group, we believe the tape part of it. The workout, I think is a big part of it as well. It's a part of the it's it's part of the evaluation. But I also think you got to kind of be a little careful about that because you bring up the point about Cam Newton and the workout, and it's something ball was all over the place, right, and you have to factor in that they're throwing the guys they've never

played with before. There's chemistry. Is that hurts receivers too. By the way, you get a bad quarterback that camp tell me, I mean Dak Prescott in training camp last year and practice, how do you look not good? I mean, there's there's a big difference when you go from a practice setting to a game setting here where you're in shorts and a T shirt, you don't have pads on,

you know, you don't have a helmet on him. There's so many different variables here throwing here compared to you know, throwing in a game, and so you would expect that throwing against air you should be better. Just not always the case, especially when you're dealing with some chemistry issues

with guys you've never worked with you before. You're you're a quarterback needy team, and you look at the combine workout and the guy doesn't throw worth a damn, you're gonna Are you gonna be a little concerned with this quarterback class? Yeah? I think I'd be more concerned than with others because there's not a guy here that I think anybody's completely sold on. What if he throws great? What if the quarterback throws great? Are you gonna go

watch him work out as a school workout? Of course, it's all about if I have a chance to see it when he's quarterbacks, if he's throwing somewhere, throwing on Mars, I'm getting a ticket to go to Mars the same throw. If I have a chance to see him throw, I'm going and it for It's it's tough because you trust the tape. But at the same time, there's a reason this is all going on. This is absolutely there's so

many people here, you know it matters. That's actually it's a really good point though, And it's kind of what I was trying to say a minute ago. If somebody goes out and if Deshaun Watson blows us away, this week and like great workout, amazing, Yeah, don't you kind of and you're like okay, yeah, but like it's on air, that's what you're supposed to do. Whereas scout guys get excited about that. But I think, look, he's throwing well.

I think if people I think, if he has a really terrible one, I think the reaction will be much worse in the next and it would be in the post. It's all about finding out why any workout, if he's struggling, yeah, why why is he struggling? What are you struggling with? Does that translate to the tape? And there's a big thing to be said about just seeing a quarterback throw in person. A lot of these coaches that are here have never seen these quarterbacks fring person right. It is

so important. How does the ball come off their hand, what's their their motion, like their efficient set up load, get the ball out. There's something to be said about just seeing that live. You can see it on tape, but seeing it live, seeing the bull explode off their hand, the velocity on the ball, the placement, there's something to be said about seeing that in person, and then the feel you get and these quarterbacks going one after the

other at approach. Oh no, absolutely, it's quarterback show and they're scripted exactly here. It's one after the same. I think there's more pressure out here to throw at the combine then at their workout at school course or any any any drill. I mean, I think the pressing on your field at your college with all your buddies. Absolutely,

if you could survive the combine pressure. And I'm just talking about any position, because there's some guys that that that are going to have to survive some combine pressure and and to and to make people. You know, you got the tape, but my gosh, hey this guy's from this school boy? Did he perform well? Didn't look out

of place? You know? That's about the sea bole. Right before we get to before we take our first break here that I want to get into this day, we were kind of hearing some buzz uh here that the running backs cook weighing in at two hundred and ten pounds four net, two hundred thirty different thirty pound difference right there, though, crazy Any concern about the heavy running back, any concerned about coming in guys, maybe you know, being in shape, not in shape, that kind of thing, That's

the bigger thing is what's the body looking like? Is it good weight? Is there some bad weight on there? Uh? You know that that's bigger than you know, because Leonard fourdet can carry two hundred forty pounds no problem, and it's still be in great shape. You know, that's just his body. That's part of what makes him a freak. Um. It will be interesting to see what he runs at two hundred forty pounds, right. If he goes out there and runs a four or five zero at that weight,

that reminds me of Tyrone Wheatley doing that. I mean, I know that goes way back in the day, but that that young man coming down at you know, two hundred and thirty two pounds and running in the four, you know, the fourth he was getting. Uh, Fournette was getting a lot of um Jamal Lewis comparisons on Twitter today, Right, Jamal Lewis is in the two forty two forty five range as a player. I mean, you know, Leonard Fournette, that's just kind of who he is. He's a two

hundred forty pound back. Could he get to two thirty five? Sure? I don't think it's necessary though. I don't think it diminishes him as a as a running back. That's that's a little different. That's I struggle with that because that's obviously not ideal as a running back. One of the biggest strengths you can talk about is just reliability. And with Cook, No, he wasn't hurt that much in college. But the big thing will be with the medicals which

happened today. What's going on with the shoulders? Um, if you told me, okay, the next five to seven years, Dalvin Cook will average fourteen starts a year, I'd say he's the best running back to come out in the last five years. I think that much of him. I think he's so supremely talented. That's fair praise. But I struggle, but I don't know if he's gonna be able to fourteen starts a year just with that body armor, the body build, the shoulders two hundred ten pounds. And that's

why wit made Zekes so special. He was so so talented at a thick to twenty five, right, I have no doubt in my mind he's gonna be able to go out there and give me sixteen games. You know, at least a high percentage of that happening with Cook. A little more doubt there with is gonna be able to hold up. You're going up against you know, twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven year old men who you know are doing this for a living, trying to earn that

next contract. A little different Dalvin Cook going up against NC State and twenty year old linebackers. Where might sniff the NFL We're going to see the running backs workout Friday afternoon. That would be interesting to see what those body types. One last thing too, before we hit the break, had a chance to bump into a lot of general

managers today and bumped into some coaches as well. I'm not going to get into the total thing about Joe Mixon, but I will say this though, to Dane's point of what we had on a few draft shows ago about Joe Mixon being here, there's a lot of general managers that absolutely wish he was here to have the opportunity. I had a general manager actually telling me though, he goes, the problem is this used the combine used to be about the teams. Now it's about the media. It's about

it's about the media's access. He goes, I'd love to have Joe Mixon here. But if I had to present Joe Mixon to you guys, he goes, that would be a problem. So but there's a lot of guys, a lot of general managers that would love the opportunity to talk to Joe Mixon. So get ready for that pro day March eighth in Norman. Yeah, there'll be the get up there absolutely from the day. Yeah, there'll be a lot of folks making the trip up to send you up to Norman. Days after you get back from I'm

gonna go. I'm gonna go. Dan and I are gonna make the trip. We'll go up there and see. But it sounds like to me of the of the a I interviewed probably eight general managers and coaches, and they said, to a man, they said they would love to have the guy here to have the opportunity to talk to A matter of fact, generman says, the very first thing, the most important thing to is not the medicals, but the interviews. So keep that in mind as we're going

forward here. Okay, we're gonna take our first break of the day. We'll be right back. Make sure you get everything together for Twitter on the twenty and we'll get to your questions. When we return with unlimited data from AT and T, you can stream your favorite Direct TV content almost anywhere. Side effects may include sports induced public celebrations, yes, increased desire to share spoilers, and repeated late night use of the phrase just one more episode the unlimited effect.

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twenty seventeen UH Combine NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Brian broad Us, Dain Burglar, David Hellman, Kit Garrison, executive producer, as always keeping us online, keeping us going, like to once again thank a couple of people. They're Caliber, Caliber Collision and also our good friends at Tommy John. David, you're a big fan of the Tommy John ware Man. I praised Tommy John's underwear already on this program. And while I was on my you're sitting here not riding

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Caliber Collision and Tommy John both being with us here at the combine. Okay, this is one of my favorite segments because it's all about UH fan interaction. It's all the people. It's all about you the people. So Twitter and there it is. I really like when Kent does effect the sound effect thing. So yeah, Twitter on the twenty go ahead, David, what do he got? Really smart? One from Alfredo? Uh to start this one off, which is simple, whose medicals interest you the most this week?

Of all the guys who are going to get looked at the most, it's gonna be hard to limited just one. I think Dalvin Cook, who we mentioned with the shoulders since I think his junior year in high school, he has had three shot older surgeries. UM, so eager does here? Dalvin Cook? M Leonard Fournette with that ankle? Uh? That forcing him as five games this year? What's going on with that ankle? And he you know you've heard the word chronic used and hopefully there's no long term effects.

The most I might go John Ross and this is a player's first round wide receivers, A first round receiver Washington, a couple knees. He's gonna have a shoulder surgery in UH in March. It might be one of the fastest guys here too. Oh yeah, he's a candidate. Definitely, he'll

be in the four three range. And but the durability and the past injury issues could be the difference between between him being the third receiver off the board in a first round pick and then possibly falling to day two and a lot of other receivers passing him up. So John Ross, I think he's definitely one of the ones. We'll be bullshit and finding out more about need to know about Jake, But I really do I need to figure out though, because this is a really good tied

end cloud. We've said it. You know, if you're falling along in the draft show, you understand we like these tw it ends. We feel like that we can go down first, second, third, fourth, fifth round, we'll find you tied in. But Jake, Budd, I want to see really where how far along he is with this with his injury, the surgery, the rehab. Although, yeah, all that stuff. I want to figure this out though, because he might be

a consideration for me. I feel like this kid without knowing him, no Michigan background, all those things, high work, character, ethic, all that kind of stuff. I have a feeling though that he might be a guy though that if you were sitting at the bottom of the if you're sitting at the bottom of the of the of the second round, that you would maybe consider where Dallas is sitting there right at sixty, this might be an opportunity to grab a guy. I'm interested to see where his medical is,

maybe waits even a third round. Yeah, well, well we'll see. It depends on It depends on really how how confident I am when I when I start doing some some research of bumping into some guys down the hallway. Good segue for a question from Uriyahu. We've talked about tightening into twenty eight before. We've covered oj Howard extensively. We have um who who And I know this is a good tight end class. But at twenty eight who else? And who would be And I know we've talked about

in Joku before, who would probably be behind Howard? And it is you know, let's say it is in Joku or whatever you got, Is that a viable option at twenty eight and Juku? Sure? Yeah, yeah, we've talked about Howard edding a Joku's right there. He's gonna think he's gonna blow up this week. I think he said that before he's gonna have a good week. Here's a guy

that might elevate himself. People might fall in love with the numbers, with the measurables, but then you could kind of see some things on tape with the athletic ability part of it. Right, Well, okay, it's talking about numbers, talking about athletic ability. What about our guy from Ashland. That's what I came up again. See that's where I was gonna go with this, because there's people starting to buzz a little bit and this is what happens out there.

And we appreciate everybody that falls along in the draft show because we try and give you some names of guys and all of a sudden, then you're not surprised when they end up in the second round. When he starts office potentially a four to five and the next thing you know, you're talking about him at thirty two. Well that's people say that you know, draft stock and that it's not real and it's media driven. No, hole, that stuff exists. No, it's just it's the it's the

media catching up with the scouts. Well in a big part of it too, with a player like this is division two. You know a guy that you said it before going up against densists and accountants, right, you know, how is that going to translate? Does it? Yeah? That is he He comes in at two seventy five or you know, in that range, and he goes out and run the four seven like his tape says that he

is look out. I mean, how high can this guy go? Okay? Well, and and I guess that you know I'm I'm the black and white like bottom line guy, which so I want to know how many tight ends you think are going in the first round of this year's draft. I think it'll be too Howard and joker Joker. Yeah, I will say this though about about our our Ashland tight end. And this is to me. I talked about guys that have to do the the various medical checks, interview stuff whatever.

He's combine pressure. He's to me. I wrote about him as combine pressure. He has to and I don't I don't have no reason. I have no reason to doubt the kid. But he he comes in and and and scouts love to say checks all the boxes. This scout right here loves to say that checks all the boxes, checks all the boxes, combine pressure. Can he withstanding can he look at Howard and other guys working out and be able to hang in there and not drop passes, you know, look powerful coming off in the block and

stuff run routes where he doesn't look bad. You know, you know these are these are all the things that he's gonna have to deal with because it's it's gonna be afterwards. We're gonna be talking about this tight end group and he can have that rise where everybody goes that's all they're talking about. They're not talking about Howard, because we all think Howard's pretty damn good football player. But this kid is gonna have to with Dan combined pressure,

and that's gonna be key for you. You can make the argument that no other player in this class has more to gain or lose of the combine and we'll get into that too. Yeah, we'll get into that. Actually, y'all are doing a great job of giving me seguys. I really appreciate that because Landon wants to know we I mean, we sort of touched on this in the first segment anyway, But you guys that have a lot to win. You hear about that all the time. But who who has the most to lose at the combine.

See that's what that's our next Yeah, set, Yeah, we got we got that coming. Landing hangs with us on the Draft show. All right, we're gonna get into guys who had the most to win and the guys that have the most to lose. So just hang with us on that one, Landed, appreciate that. Here's a I know Cowboy fans, A lot of Cowboys fans like this guy, and I want to know Joe. Joe wants to know

if he's a fit here. Uh tell tell me about Buddha Baker and does he fit for what the Cowboys need in the safety when you consider Byron Jones is already there. We talked about the measurements. Buddha Baker's a guy who his measurements will be really important. Um, there are teams in this league who will not draft a safety under two hundred pounds in the first round, maybe not even the top fifty picks, right, you know, because it traditionally look at this league and sub two hundred

pounds safeties don't hold up. Now, Buddha Baker's a little different because he's in that tyrone. Matthew Mold Where he is he a coroner? Is he a Safety's kind of a little bit of both. Fits that nickel position really well. So if you want a true safety, I'm not sure Buddha Baker is your guy. But if you want a nickel a guy that you know in that tyron Matthew Mold, I think that would make that. That's what he is, right, This guy's a nickel player. I mean he's five nine

and a half one hundred ninety two pounds. And Dan's right, the measurables, the measurables are going to be key for him. They really are. As soon as you say like hybrid player, I just shut down, like the Cowboys aren't going undrafted. Well, but but this guy, but what he's what he's talking about is he doesn't have the height, but what he has is that ability to get to the football. And you and I've seen it for firsthand retiring Matthew. We we've seen the ability to be around the football and

create turnovers. Nobody loves the honey Badger more than me, But no, that's true. What would you do with him on in this Cowboys scheme? And that's really what I go back to and That's that's what makes me wonder about this is I don't think they want not that obviously they want good football players, but they I don't think they think that he fits in what they do well. And it's what percentage of the snaps are they in nickel? You know? Right? So is it seventy percent? I mean,

he's it close to that number. And if it's so, then I think he could fit as your your third, your slot corner. A guy that can move around a little bit. How about is the free safety? Right? And because he can cover ground when he runs, I mean there's a you're someone a player with range. Yeah, this is a guy if you put him near the line, yeah, he's gonna make the tackle. You put him deep, he is gonna run his rear off to get to the ball. So does that mean you can use Byron Jones as

you're very church. You can put Byron Jones down if you want, or you can interchange him, right if you want to put one down one back like that, and that's change right that you got the guy that could play the side. Note where he might be to disadvantage as if he has to play the tight end, if he has to play the bigger tight end, that might be a problem, but you put him deep at safety, he will run and it will be It'll be importantly we said the official numbers. Is he over one ninety,

is he close to two hundred? Does he get close to five ten? And Karl Joseph last year there you go mid first round. He came in under five ten and only two hundred and five pounds, right, So it's not like he was this hulking safety, right And he's still run hit guy exactly and he's coming off in acol right, so and he still went mid first round. So I think Buddha Baker, he will be a very interesting prospect. He won't be a fit for everyone, but for a lot of teams, a team willing to be

a little creative, he'll make some sense. Yep, all right, I like this question a lot because I know how y'all feel about this guy, and I mean, who knows if he'll even be there, But uh, you know, we've talked a lot about Jalen Smith this week at the combine between Steven Jones and Jason Garrett. Apparently he's going to be ready for the offseason program. We have no idea how effective he'll be. He's good playing that brace. It sounds like very likely to be playing with a

brace on his foot. We don't know if he will be that Jalen Smith, which okay, but so linebacker is not the most jarring need on this team. I think we would agree. Well, when you talk about Damien Wilson and then you talk about Mark and Zatcha. Right, you've got some young guys you need to play. You've got some guys that need to play. You've got whatever to lose. Justin Durant though, probably let me get there, just let

me get there everything we just said. If your boy Cunningham from Vanderbilt is there at twenty eight, do you make that pick. That's your boy. I like him, I like him, loves him. That's your boy. I absolutely love this guy when you draft him. Absolutely. I would as a strong side. Yeah, as a strong side linebacker, and they'll probably say they wouldn't play him in a strong side. I think you could play this guy anywhere. I really do. I think he could playim with Sam. I think he

Mike I could play. People were talking about me, you know, Will he's he's you know, six three, two hundred and thirty pounds. He'll probably put on some weight more ways, he is a lanky guy. But I'll tell you what, though, you talk about a guy that can really and we boot a baker covering some ground, but this guy plays with a burst. If you really you would draft him in the first round alone, if you watch him play Georgia.

If you can only watch one film of this guy to get a feel of what type of player he could potentially be, watch the Georgia game this year because he gets after it. And Vanderbilt does not have a great history of winning football programs, every once in a while they'll put a guy in the league. This guy right here, I think very quilt quietly. He's gonna go through this combine. But when you watch him move around,

I think everybody will be very impressed with him. That would be That would be a BPA moment because I can't I and I said that when we were first starting the draft cycle. If Jayalen Smith is never Jalen Smith, though, I don't think I can justify a first round pick on a linebacker with everything else that you need. But if this guy is that much of a stud and he's there, Remember it was two I wish taken Miles Jack.

I wish they had taken Miles That's not no, no, no, no, no, no no. I wish they would have taken Miles Jack in the second round. They didn't. They take a different linebacker. They didn't take Miles Jack. But look at two years ago they were ready to take Shack Thompson right, yeah, before he was snatched up, and they went Byron Jones the year before that. Yeah, right, So I mean they have there's a history there of linebacker being high. Might it might be it might be a high enough grade

at twenty eight, right, And that's the thing. If he's still there at twenty eight, it could be that case this year where the best player available also fits a possible need, best linebacker or Ross. It depends on the medicals. It's so tough to say with Ross, right, Nicole's scare me. Yeah, I mean, if if healthy, I'm going Ross. But you know many knee surgeries two and that we did. Yeah, I mean we've traveled to Jalen Smith road, like I just want a guy who will be ready for a

rookie camp, Like he'll be out there. Lucky that Jalen Smith didn't have to play they really are. Well, look, we've talked about this before. Is a rookie really gonna be the difference between a super Bowl or not? Probably not? But thirteen games a rookie taken at twenty eight although well, yeah, yeah, I never know, Dane, you never know that guarantee. There's people right now that love you and right now are yelling at their screen because of what you just said.

Let's like, okay, let's wait to take a quarterback to the sixth round, Tom Brady. Okay, yeah, even you're in the grand scheme of things, a guy taken at twenty eight probably will not be the difference between it. Of course, So I'm on the field, okay, okay, when we talk about real quick in Ross, would you expect him to help with no, with with playing opposite Dez Bryant. And it's not like Ross is hurt right now, No, no, no, he's got a history, right exactly, he has a history.

But I'm asking you could Ross help at at play play the second receiver on this team at twenty eight a receiver, yes, any any of the receivers that they could take in that range. I think I mean Terrence stepped in and was fine at at seventy seven. Back in twenty third. I'd love him there. But this is a good receiver draft. I think you look at the receivers in the second third round. Yeah, that's that's kind of the sweet spot. So you might not need to

take one at twenty eight, right. I think there's a good chance that the best player available on their board at twenty eight will not be a receiver, would be a corner. And don't you think there's a much better chance on it. I mean defensive end or corner, much better chance of a corner, possibly a defensive end. We're cutting him at linebacker on March first. I can sit here and say, this is the real excite about cutting him. This is the real kiss of death right here on

March first. I just feel like I feel pretty damn confident saying pass rusher or d back one or the other. Gosh, it's already March. It's drafty beer before we know it. Yeah, but I think you're right the way, and like, you know, we talked about that incessantly last year. You know, the thirty four was a sweet spot for receivers and rhada yadayada. Yeah, it just the way that this with what they need and what is available to them. It just makes too

much sense. It would have to be something crazy like a you know, a Cunninghammer, another top twenty guy like that falling. You know, maybe somebody puts a gas mask on on draft night. Where did you have cutting him on your board? Uh like nineteen something like that. So at twenty eight you'd be okay with that then? Right? Sure that we'll see who else is there? But yeah, I think that's we'll see, And it's one of those things we're dressing your board. It depends, yes, because that

I'm not my board is not for the Cowboys. Mind No, No, I just I was just saying, so you would you would you wouldn't question them if they took him at twenty eight if I have, If I have, you would say that's a valued pick. Sure. If Cunningham's my nineteenth player, and say Charles Harris is my twenty first player and both players are available at twenty eight, I'm probably leading the pass rusher. I mean, you know, because I'm not

doing my board for the Cowboys. I'm doing my board just an overall talent, similar tiers, they're similar areas, So I'm going passed rush. Who's a better player Cunninghammer or Harris and on your board cunning him. Yeah, I haven't rated as a better player, but first round player, right, yes.

But for this this team, I think if the pass rusher is rated very close, I'm leading the pass rusher just based on he's getting on the field quicker and he's gonna make more of an infat And that's Stephen Jones kind of alluded to that, you know, and BPA is the right way to go, and it makes sense

and don't window dress your board. But Stephen Jones even kind of said last night, he was like, you know, you need guys for a reason, like you have needs for a reason, and you know it's hard to sit there and the guys you need look a lot better than the guys you don't need, even if it might not be ranked that one. This is why you fight like hell on the stack, right, This is where you when you build a board, this is where you take your sword and you go to battle to try and

and you always make it so dramatic. It is dramatic. It is dramatic because you know what, it's your team you're fighting for. You you're fighting for your life. You really are. I mean, you're the guy. He's an ex scal he gets fired. I have, I have fought these battles. No, it was more than scal. I mean I sat in that room and died when things have happened wrong. I mean, trust me, you you you want me in that room with you. You want you want me on that wall.

John Elway today said something, so you know that ideally you go into the draft without that one glaring need, right, you know, so you can go best player available, you can go. You can you don't. You can go buy your board, right, So whoever the best player is on your board, you can go that player. But it's not always the case. No, it's not every round, not every round. But I think, to me, the board is important. I

think the stack is even more important. The stack. Give me the one to one fifty, because that's gonna tell me the difference between DeMarcus Ware and Sean Merriman. That way, that's what it's gonna be. Tags to tags. Yeah, so anyway, all right, you got one more maybe one more? Yeah, actually I had one that I was really curious about. One more thing. We got to get to a break and then we'll come back and I want to get

to Dame Sliss of combined winners and losers. Tell me this is this is almost like a tell me more because y'all are away far ahead of me. Dave wants to know tell me, tell me about Shelton Gibson and what you expect to see from him this week. And we were pleasantly surprised. We watched his tape. Yeah, he can fly, true deep threat. He saw him do a lot of that in the West Virginia tape. Yeah, reminded me a lot of Kenny Stills form Oklahoma receiver who

I consider that to be a good comparison. Yeah, I mean there's some questions about him as an underneath receiver, developing his routes, being a consistent catcher to the football, but that deep speed is really impressed. If he has a chance to separate late go and attack the ball, and that that might be the best thing about his tape. He attacks the ball, He doesn't let the ball come to him. And as a deep receiver going up against

you know, corners who can run with you. Now, he played in the Big twelve, where you know defense is offal and especially in the secondary. But I was pleasantly surprised by his tape. I think he might run a four three here. I think he'll be in that range. And Dave actually wants I mean, will he be this year's will Fuller, which what you're describing to me, he's bigger. I don't think he's quite will Fuller. I think, you know, will Fuller is a four three two forty yard dash.

I think Gibson's more in the high four threes, which isn't a bad thing. Um, but you know, he maybe I don't know third round, you know, I think somewhere on TAD two. Uh. If you're looking for that deep threat, he fits a certain description. That's what you're looking for. He makes some sense. I mean, I know it's not this simplistic, but that's exactly what the Cowboys should be working looking for. Is somebody who can just fly and

scare the crap out of other teams. And and Beasley and all those other guys worry about stretch out the defense. This guy puts a lot of pressure on your defense. He puts the way he runs. You give him free access and route let him go. He is gonna put a ton of pressure on you. And what's amazing bat.

He draws a ton of flacks. Yeah, I've never seen a receiver draw more to it, flags from safeties, over the top guys, maybe the ball short and he's having to come back to the ball because he's outrun everybody. He draws more penalties than any other receiver I've ever seen. I struggled with that because I wrote that in my notes, and you know, we talked about that. I've never seen a receiver draw more flags. But how much of that

is just terrible big twelve defensive backplay. How about his quarterback not getting him the ball exactly, that's part of it too. So it's but he has a knack for that. It's really remarkable. I mean, like I said, I know Dez Bryan can score on a fifty yard go. He's done in a million times. But the older he gets, that's not how I want to use him anyway. I want a guy who can do that. And that's this is a great example of why I don't think they

take a receiver at twenty eight. You can get guys like Gibson, uh, you know, on day two and be happy about the West Virginia receiver. Though there's been some there's been some hold your reer on that. Sure, you know, and put your hand that card in. You're like going and you know, but it isn't Bailey Austin letting the Tavon Austin, yea from six years and I'm just saying, no, it's it's it's Tavon Austin. Makes you think in the

second round where you know, maybe maybe the thing goes different. Yeah, then it's not a bad pick. Top ten all right, anyway, thanks everybody on Twitter on the twenty. Really do appreciate your question. We'll do that every night, so you know, if you're watching the combine, we'll watching right, I'll send the question, I'll send out the ask earlier. Yeah, I see, Yeah, we'll get some more in, but we'll catch that tomorrow

and I as well. Okay, when we come back, Dane Bugler and I are going to go through and David Hellmer are going to go through our guys to watch that either can have success or might even have failure. We'll be right back to work this big land. You need equipment with values rooted as deep in Texas soil as you are, like John Dear compact tractors with a six year, power training, Warren to hit big features that help you work less so you have more time to

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different platforms we have. You know whether it's been on the on Twitter for us. What else we got, Dave, that we do poping, periscoping cowboys at Cowboys avoys dot Com everywhere. We appreciate that, and we and we appreciate you know that you guys want to interact with us. I also want to remind folks at Dane Burglars on a podcast with Jeff Kavanaugh that Jeff and one of five three is one of our partners here with the

Draft Show Dane. That's the uh, the Draft Show, it's excume, it's the Trust Trust to Tape, and it's a it's done a great job. So if you want to check out the Draft Show right comments, I go in there and read about that like the Draft Show, We're all about that, and then also check out Dan and Jeff Kavanaugh on Trust to Tape. That will be another way

of getting your your your draft information. Uh. As we go further along, I also want to thank h Caliber Collision and Tommy John for also getting us here at Indianapolis and also helping us have a night's dinner last night at Saint Elmo's. We appreciate that as well. Dave. I'm gonna turn the show over to you, right now. Yeah, lets you do a little uh little questions and answers with Dane and I, and it really trying to get

into about the the guys that we think the winners. Yeah, I kind of stow y'all's thunder with that question from Landing. So Landing did a good job. We appreciate Landing. I like Landing. He's a good question. Ask I think this is I mean, it's an interesting point though. Great we have guys who can win, but who who has the most to lose here? And I honestly it's even more I don't know the answer because I'd probably say Joe Mixon if he was here, but he's not. So with

that in mind, what do you think? Yeah? There, Dane, And the way I look at the combine, you break up into four categories, the interviews, the medicals, the on field testing both the positional and the athletic, and then the verified measurements. I think all four areas are important

and for different players. And we talked about Buddha Baker how the verified measurements are important for him, right uh, you know the forty yard dash from Mike Williams, that type of thing, right Uh, you know, so for each player, you could really identify one of those criteria as being more important. DeMarcus Walker, Florida State. I think the workouts are really important for him because you watch him on tape, he's not that explosive edge rusher who's going to capture

the corner, you know, wrap around tackles. His best production came from the interior where he was beating slow footed offense and guards. So watch the Old Miss game. If you get that opportunity, that'll open your eyes. Him playing inside, well, just you watch him in any game and he's not doing anything off the edge, off the edge, but inside it's a difference exactly. And so how will he test here? I think if that matches up with the tape, it's just it's going to hurt him. And I've heard people

talking about him as a possible first round pick. It doesn't show it on tape, and I don't think he's going to perform like a first round to hear, so potentially he's a guy that could hurt himself. Yeah, I don't. I don't disagree. I think another guy when when you start talking about, uh, you know, the workouts and really how well, how he's gonna how things are going to

pan out. I think Juju Smith Schuster, and I say this because I do, and Juju smith Schuster plays wide receiver at USC, and A and Dani has told you, and we've told you this all along. It's a pretty deep class of wide receivers. The tape I've seen to him, I see a guy that can catch the football. I see a guy that shows toughness. I see a smart football player. Guy that caught a ball at the end of a football game. Instead of scoring, he felled down

to run the clock out. That's football intelligence right there. Give me the guy that has a smart player. We saw what happened with the Cowboys with Terrence Williams not getting out of bounce. I think Juju Smith Schuster. How he runs the forty yard dash will tell you a lot about now. Hopefully he will get a time to where he runs well enough to where he doesn't have to run a get at USC. Based on tape, he's going to probably be in the high four fives, you know,

And that's gonna be that's just the tape. Now, if he's been training, if he can get that into the into the low four fives, maybe even a four or five oh something like that. I think that the tape is good enough. You could see him make plays. But the question is really how fast is he going to be if he avoids the four sixes? Yeah, he can't. He can't go out there and run a four six eight and and because people will go to usc but

can you take a four six eight? You don't want people gleeve in here and thinking that's what he is. Didn't my homie Jarvis run a really bad four seven at the combine? You can bounce back, but what was? What was when was Landry taken three? So I'm trying to get Smith Schuster in that mix of conversation of say, second round, but what wide receiver? What have we been talking about this wide receiver class? And how deep it is? Second? Third round? I'm trying to position in better or I'm

looking at him. So many receivers stacked close to each other that forty yard could be a distinguishing factor that could move them up and down. This raises an interesting question, of all the things that are going to happen here, is it fair to say that the on field is the least important? Though I'd say the four criteria that I mentioned it's third. You know, I think verify you should have a close idea to you know guys just behind the eye test. But first and foremost of the medicals.

You know, we've talked about that, how important that is. That's why they combine exists. Second, the interviews, and that's where I think a lot of these players have something you talk about winners and losers. Tim Williams from Alabama, that's my guy. How does he interview? You know? We yeah, okay, how important is football? Do you right? His answers better be good because teams are beady. And remember that these interviews are it's like speed dating. It's like fifteen minutes

quick hitter. So they're not going to waste time getting to know you. They're gonna ask the hard questions right away, and you know, try and trip you up a little bit. So you better don't come off, you know, like you're annoyed. Don't come off tire, don't come You'll get be excited. But yeah, right, the questions that you are the you know, be on ahead. You have to be yeah, forthcoming with the only your mistakes, but at the same time project

how that's in your past. Yeah, there's people they're gonna ask him questions. Dane's absolutely right. You don't have a lot of time with this kid, and then the horn sounds and he's got to be somewhere else. You better make sure that your two best questions are your two best questions. Yeah, because he's gonna have to give you some extensive answers. And I think these interviews are gonna tell whether people want to bring him in for the

thirty visit. That's where I think he's he is. He is talking now whether teams are gonna have him completely off the board or do we bring him in as a guy as one of our thirty visits. And again, he's that good of a football player. By the way. Another point, and well, if there were no questions about him, I don't think he'd get past like fifteen. Yeah, I mean he's the top ten pick. Yeah, he's said can

maybe the first best pass rush from this draft. So with that in mind, and you know, we talk all the time about how the combine is like this moment of truth on the medical front. You know, yeah, we're gonna find out about you, We're gonna know what this means, blah blah blah. So you know, Tim Williams is going to go through this on the interview front. What does that look like? And I guess the fascinating thing is probably that it's gonna look it's gonna be thirty two

different answers for thirty two different teams. Like, somebody's gonna be like, we can work with this guy, and then there's gonna be half a dozen teams that are like, get him out of here, we don't want to talk to him. Yeah, absolutely, And I think and how but how do we come to a consensus on that over the next month and a half or there won't be

good question? Yeah? Yeah, no. And that's something that is one of the layers of what makes the draft so intriguing because different teams will feel differently about the issues, felt feel differently about the value where they'd feel comfortable taking a player like that, you know, for some teams off the board completely other teams, you know what if he's still available in this round, Okay, we'd feel comfortable

at that point. So we when we talked about, you know, some of the character guys, the quarterbacks in the interviews, that's going to be really important. Deshaun Kaiser, why do you have a losing record left right? Is that you know what? What? What didn't you do that you needed to do? What? But the coaching well, you know, it didn't seem like you and Brian Kelly and the offensive coaching staff were always on the same page. Why not tape? But I want to hear from Deshaun Kaiser. Is that

the case? Were you worried about Malik's that year? We were worried about the coaches not having trust in you. I want to hear his answers because he has to be honest, but not throw the coaches under the bus and blame others. Is he going to be you know kind of is he gonna put it on himself or blame others? I want to hear Deshun Kaiser's explanation, so I we'll hear him tomorrow in the media. I think it'll be a little more guarded diplomatic with his answers.

But with these teams, how does he answer those questions? Pat Mahomes, you know, okay, yeah, I'm gonna give you an offensive scenario, you know, a pro style uh verbiage. You know, how does he handle that? You know, you make that call in the huddle where is he mentally in terms of his development. We know physically what he brings, but coming from the air raid offense, uh, you know which where is he mentally? That's something that's going to

be big for his value. Dave, I want to bring up something that we won't get to see or the fans at home won't get to see, but scouts will. And that's the second position workout. That's something that you know that as a as a as a scout. Sitting there at the old RCA Dome, you know, watching them go through, I always fun I always always wonder maybe they need to work this guy and Dane, you know you're talking about Speedy Noll. You know you think he's

a cornerback, corner. Yeah, see this is where this is where this this is where the second workout that you don't see on TV, but it's between say they run the forty yard dashes, they'll put a guy through. They'll bring a position coach out there and they'll work the kid out as a corner, or they'll work out a guy like Curtis Samuel, who I think is a running back. You know he's you know a receiver, is he a

running back? He's going to go through. I mean you're missing the most Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly, there you go. I mean, but I feel like though the second position workout could gain you know, that could gain some traction of somebody in a draft room saying we'll put on the Combine tape when he was going through the drills, Look, he looks like a corner there. No, he looks he's got corner feet, he's got the burst, he's got the turn, he's got the you know, all those things you wanted

to corn. He can't catch, you know, that's why you can't play him at receiver. So to me, the second position workout is going to be a key fascinating for a lot of guys here. And we'll and you know, we'll get the Combine list. I'll get to come on us and we'll figure out who the who's because the teams ask specifically, would you please work this guy out? And and the and the Combine does a great job. They put a coach out there and they work him out for five minutes and you get an idea if

he can do it or not. I would hate that if I were an NFL team, because I want to go do it privately with them. Some teams do, but but they I guarantee you there will be some guys that that will go through wide receiver workouts that they'll try at corner and they'll flip. There's been some there's been some guys at the time that have been quarterbacks

that they flipped to other positions. In your experience, and this has to has to have happened, Like do you guys get pissed like with I mean speeding oil and you've been receiver since you were fifteen, Matt Jones. If you were Matt Jones a lot of money, made a lot of money going from playing a quarterback at Arkansas running four in the four threes twice. Thought my watchers wrong the first time, sat there with him, like, what'd you guys get? Four? Three eight? Okay, I'm in the ballpark.

Here we go. Second does it again? Now, all of a sudden, you see Matt Jones out there catching footballs like in the Gauntland drill and stuff. You're like, going, it's not a quarterback, he's a receiver. But you know, like, I mean, you know how that works. Yeah, Well, I'm just saying, though it happened. The point is, well, happened. I just I've been practicing receiver since you're fourteen years old, and they're like, hey, you suck at it. Do this. Yeah,

that's something. Hey, Richard Sherman, he was a wide receiver most of his career and then it wasn't. The combine was his last year at Stanford. Moves the corner. But you know, still for some of these guys, it doesn't take that hard. You know, dig up a few past examples to understand making the switch could be in your best interest long term. Before we get out of here, I know we have a couple of minutes ago before we get out of here. Who is the guy you

have is a chance to have it? Could be the biggest gainer in this whole thing, to make the biggest gain any position, any position. I think it's Adam Shheen. You know we talked. I think he has the most to gain or lose, just because he's coming from that Division two level. He has to come in and perform really well because that's how he looks on tape. But again, that division two thing can make him look maybe a

little bit better than he is. How does he do against the big boys when he's going you know, right after some of these other tight ends who have been playing at the FBS level and guys like go j Howard and Joe Kup and so I think he has a lot to gain, but potentially some of the you know, buzz will wear off if he doesn't look as good here. Yeah, I tell you what. I think it'll be really interesting as well what happens with these defensive ends. You know,

a guy like Thomas and Barnett, mcdel hairs. I mean there's a clump of them, you know who of that group? Who which Which guy out of all that gaggle of guys that we've seen so far, could just elevate himself, go from the combine, go to workouts. And now the draft stock is huge and well, I mean I don't care about that because I'm thinking about where the cowboys right.

But gaggle is a great word. We've been talking about like eight guys for a month and a half, and by the end of this week, the pecking order is gonna start to sort itself out and we can kind of hope get solid Psalmon. Thomas is looking to go up. I mean, he's a top he's a top twelve guy and looking to go up. So okay, that's all the time. Excuse me a second here, made it all the way through, made it all the way to the fifty nine minute marks.

Wow about that. Sorry, no cough buttons, Yeah, no call buttons. And I'm gonna sound terrible. He was I gonna do this? Oh? Do you want me to just do it for you? Why don't you take us out? David, Thanks for listening today one of our NFL Combined Draft Show coverage. We will be back every day until Saturday. Until Saturday, I'm David Hellman. That was Brian broad Up, that's for the coughing Fit and Dane Brugler. We'll be back tomorrow. Thanks for watching, See you next time.