Draft Show: LIVE @ Senior Bowl 2017 - Day 1

way through. David Hellman, Dallas Cowboys dot Com, Welcome again. We're putting the draft show together from a hotel room. I mean, we've done it before, but I just it's great. It's always fun when you can do it like this. Kenny props to Kent Garrison as abolutely. Ken Garrison's got us on. And then Dame Bugler from CBS Sports dot Com and a contributor to Dallascowboys dot Com. Again, I've told you we are from the Vermobile, Alabama, here at the Senior Bowl. Gonna get into a few things. We

had practice today. The North and the South got to a practice a little bit, got a little bit of idea with the shells, with the shoulder pads and then the shorts and things like that, and so tomorrow will be the hitting aspect of it, the physical aspect of it. Today we got to see the guys move around. But to start today, we got to do a little bit of the way ins. And that's always important for scouts

because they've really gone through. Unless a program has had a pro day, a spring, a timing day, you really don't have verified measurables. When I have come out the measurables. Of course, we're talking about the highthwaight and speed speed. You'll get different when we go to the combine or from the pro days that will take place here in March and April. So I want to get into some of these guys, and we were talking about this today Dane and Dave. There weren't any huge disparities in heights

and weights on these guys. Sometimes you get that where you get an estimated height and weight and it's like, well the guy they say he's he's six four and he's really only six one or something like that. You know, so you get that disparity. So if you know, we had the the South team go first, and you know a couple of guys. I want to point out to you guys that you know that Dane that we've talked about,

Dave that we've talked about potentially first second round type guys. Uh, you know, I really liked what I saw from the Sean Hall from Texas A and M. Hall measured in today at six h five three, so he's uh six five and three eights and he was two hundred and sixty five pounds. I think we were working on him being two hundred and seventy pounds, So that was a little bit lighter than what we normally have from him.

But I like that you started with him because and you talk about discrepancies, I mean, colleges love to exaggerate the heights and weights of their guys. And when Hall came up today, I was like, all right, let's see what this guy really is because I had my doubts. And you know, like you said, he's a little bit lighter, but more for the most part, I mean, he lived up to kind of what the billing was supposed to be. Yeah,

you know, pressed by what he actually measured out at. Yeah, did I mean when when these defensive ends started going through. I mean, my my, the radar came up for me. And that's kind of the Dallas cowboy bias, you know that I have to you know, we're talking about defensive ends and stuff like that. Aaron Rodgers run around enough. Yeah exactly. But you know with with Hall and you know, anything surprised you about him Dame physically? How did he looked?

He did he look like a guy that you know, hey, he could be that right end. Does he have a right end build? To you? Does he have? Though? Does he left end type of a guy? I think he's more of a right end. And this is a player who's put on a lot of weight since high school a basketball player. Uh, when coach Sulan started recruiting him, he weighed about two hundred ten pounds, so he's put on a good amount of muscle and it's very lean muscle.

He doesn't have that traditional bulk. Uh, it's it's you know, well it's put throughout his body, which it really works for him and in his play style. He had a great day of practice as well. Uh, sticking with the South team. A few surprises for me Forrest Lamp. Yeah, a guy that I've been talking up a lot lately. Came in at thirty one in an eighth inch arms, which is there's certain thresholds at every position and from

tackle you want at least thirty three inch arms. Traditionally you want more like thirty four thirty five, and so for him to come close to thirty one inch arms, that was really surprising and only backs up the point that he's going to be a better guard than tackle. The next level with Forrest lamp I thought, uh, the Villanova kid, Tanyo Paseno, Yeah, it looked like a Greek god out there defensive. Wish you looked like him? Right? Can you say it for us one more time? Tano Passen.

I take all my pronunciation from Dane. Yeah, Dane is the expert of that, but still it used to it. A lot of folks though on Twitter that reached out to us today as we're watching practice, we're really interesting And by the way, the practices were on the NFL network, so you had a chance to see that. Tomorrow. I encourage you to follow on Dallas Cowboys dot com with the stories. I mean, I've got some stuff up ten points from practice today that you can take a peek at.

But a lot of people had this Villanova young man and they want to know where does he really fit? Is he that left in right in type of a guy? You know when I'll tell you what I saw with him today. Saw a guy though in the drills, didn't look quick off the ball, almost looked like he was a little bit hesitant. And then when they went to the team period, when they went to actually working some of the one on one stuff, a little bit more juice in this body, a little bit maybe a guy made.

It's like, okay, well, I'm I'll be okay here. And you're always kind of worried about those kids. You know that they come from a place where they're not playing and Villanova plays great basketball. We own all that there number one rank in the country. But their football program, yeah, you know what, it's not exactly playing Auburn, Alabama or any of those places. But how did you think he'd fit in today, Dane? When you were watching him play?

Was it a struggle for him? Was he was he a little bit better than than you thought he might be. I think it matched what we saw on the tape with him. Third round grade on him myself. Maybe that's a little too hot. Maybe a little too low on him. I don't know what you thought about it. He seems

so raw. Yeah in so many in certain areas. But when you're that long and what was his length thirty five inch arms, eighty four and a half inch wingspan, eleven inch hands, I mean, when you have those type of measurables, and he should test pretty well, yeah, fairly well, but his I just don't see the power at the point of attack. Yeah, more of a development guy for me, and so so you didn't have him as like that

as myself. Maybe I'm projecting him as a guy third round guy that you'd have to probably take him there with more about the measure measure. I see more of a borderline top one hundred, So you know, late third, early fourth. You know, once you're these pass rushers are gonna fly off the boards and second third rounds, and so once that happens, once that run happens, then he's a guy you think about late third maybe and hey after the senior boy, after the combine he might rise

even higher. Sure, but that that's personally where I saw him. And during practice he had a great rep against Forest Lamp, crying off the edge, tossed him, got him off exactly, really impressed. It kind of made you think Forest Lamp needs to play inside because Forest Lamp, when we were talking about him, backed up what we've talked about. He was better at guard. Now let me ask you this day. Can the Cowboys, you know, I'll give you the cowboy

angle here. Can they afford to take a guy like Dane was talking about in the you know, third round, late third round when they're picking, can they afford to take a guy that's a little bit of a project. They just did it, didn't they. I mean Charles Tapper, well, Charles Tapper was Oklahoma. No, okay, But I'm just talking about in terms of what they were asking to do. Well,

really a two gap kind of a player, though. I mean you know that you know that that that that that kind of that three four I get what you're saying, Charles Tapper play, but the switch in defense is what I'm talking about. Obviously, he played in the Big twelve, he played big time college football. And No, to answer your question, no, that doesn't bother me, especially if you're

talking third fourth round. If you got the talent, I mean you were high on Ronald Blair Lash absolutely, Yeah, I thought, you know, I thought, it's another guy that we loved that went to a smaller school than the Appalachian State. Who am I thinking of? Well, there's uh the Dane. Dane knows you purred your brain with all their guy that went to Montanas Yeah, the rushing from home, Yeah exactly, And he was a guy that that that

got picked up, got released, Jacks released. Yeah. So yeah, if you got the talent to be drafted and we're not talking about a first round pick, then yeah, I'm fine with it. Doesn't bother me at all. And you know, I think the Cowboys are going to address their pass rush in more ways than one going into into this not even gonna say the draft, but the spring, we had a chance. You had a chance to visit with

Steven and Jerry Jones. Stay any hints. I know they're not going to chip their hand, and right, here's no what and no, they're not gonna tip their hand, right, but you can read between the lines based on what they will and won't say. And I thought it was really interesting. Basically every question Steven Jones fielded today about improving the team went back to the draft. Right, and again, that's not a set Stephen Jones though, but that Stephen

Jones wants to draft. He's kind of like Dame Bruegler. He wants to draft guys. He's not really interested in free agency. And and isn't that the strategy that we've seen from this team for the most part. I mean, yeah, they took a shot at Greg Hardy, p Paul something like that. I'll be stunned if his team did something like that, if they gave like a really you know, they're gonna significant contry and to fill the cracks the

way that they can. And I mean they're gonna draft and you know, I think Cowboys fans would love to see and the Cowboys themselves would love to see a guy that they love at twenty eight who can rush the passer. But they're gonna do it the best way that they can find it. However, its stacks in the draft. And if this kid from Villanova, if they like him that whatever, the third round, fourth round, I don't know, maybe have to take him in the second. Dan, if

you think about will he stretch? You like him potentially getting to the third round, but could he stretch? I mean we saw two defensive ends go off the board really quickly. When Dallas was picking in the top of the second round last year. Yeah, yeah, I mean two guys and that kind of wiped him out a little bit. There they went for they went for the they went

for the shot on on Jalen Smith. The teams don't like to talk on the record about their war room discussions, but if I think if Kevin Dodd or Emmanuel Ogba had been there, I don't think Jayleen's I don't think Jalen Smith would have been a pick either. There. Yeah, I think you're both right. But to your point, I think, wait, this pass rush class. Yeah, there's me so many different flavors. I think, you know, I'd rather have a Derek Rivers from Youngstown State, another guy we could talk about I

had a good practice. I'd rather have that type of player. Yeah, uh than because to me, Passenger is not a starter next year in the NFL. I and maybe as in your too, he's pushing for starting reps. But a team that rotates their defensive line the way Dallas does. Yeah, Okay, well this is a fantastic segmay actually because this morning, and I know your opinion because I read I edit your work, right, thank you very much for that. Can

ask Dane about it. I had a scout tell me this morning, I needed to watch this guy, and then I had you tell me tonight I needed to watch this guy. Dwayne Smoot. Yeah, guy who's been on the radar for a while. Uh, a little undersized. What did he come in at today? I'll tell you what. When I was talking to Dane about Smoot and and and and uh, he was kind of a little bit Uh

we were we guys like them more than I did. Yeah, and not that he's a bad player, I just I don't think he's I think he's more of a second round player than our first round. That's what I got him. I think him a second round on my board. Here, the measurables for for Dwayne Smoot goes by DJ TO So he h it's uh six or two six, which means six three. He's almost sixty three. He's two hundred and fifty five pounds in an eighth on the hands, and then you're talking about the reach of thirty two.

So yeah, I mean, and I wrote down in my notes just unimpressive body type, unimpressive build. Um, so he didn't have a great body, but when the practice was happening. Yeah, he was getting off the edge and he was Yeah. See there were there were two guys. I wrote about

this tonight and I was watching from my seat. I was having trouble because him and him and and Carol Phillips, who's his teammate from Illinois, had the same helmet, right, So I'm thinking every time they're rushing and an alni yeah and a line I and I'm thinking, who WHOA that's him? But but I thought both Phillips and also Smoot, I thought that they they gave this uh this North

offensive line some fits. They did, and Smoot is a player who, um you know, I do might meet the prospects series for c guys back in September, I talked I sat down with Smoot and talked to him and really kind of broke down his game and just an interesting player grew up outside of Columbus but didn't get recruited by a house stay when Illinois. Plays with a

chip on his shoulder. Yeah, that type of players. So he's not the biggest guy, might not be a fit for every scheme what they're looking for, but in the second round, absolutely he could be a candidate. But they're talking, you know, and he played and if you watch Illinois tape, which if you have the opportunity, I encourage you to do it. He plays both left and right. They move him around, but I think he's more of a right in absolutely, Yeah, I think so. I mean, that's what

I want, that's I gets. And I talked about this on the last show. I'm tired of hearing about left end. Yeah, right, well, yeah, go ahead, and Dane, I was gonna ask you, Brian, to kind of do a thirty second explanation of the difference for those you know, wanting to know left end right end. Yeah. I think when you when you talk about what the Cowboys do, you know your left end.

Usually as a guy, most teams in National Football League are right handed, so you get a team that runs the football, they're gonna play right handed football, so they run behind even though they're left. Tackle is a blindside player usually your best player. But you if to play the left end, and this is why with Tyran Crawford, you know he better as play in the run then play in the past, so you're left ind traditionally a

longer guy. You want a guy that can can leverage hold up at the point of attack, not get washed out of there. Get handle blocks from the tight ends. Right ends or guys, as we all know, are screaming off the edge. They're usually one on one with the offensive. The left tackles a little bit lighter build of a guy, and that's what we got in this draft. We've got some guys that are left end type players. I think the Tennessee kid yeah is a left end. Yeah, yeah,

I really really do. To me, you look at the weight of a player, talk exactly. You know, the kid from Michigan State McDow another left in in my opinion. You know these if you're two fifty five guy like the Williams Smooth guys that we're talking about, those are

more right right red Russia. You want a bulk on the left side and exactly right right Dayshawn Hall at two sixty five, even though he is two sixty five, he's a lean to sixty right, but he plays left end and he plays left in at Texas A and M. A big reason is because skirts on the right side. Yeah, this is tangentially related going back to Smooth, but I think it's an important point. We touched on it at lunch. I think it's gonna be. It's gonna come up again

and again and again in this draft. And it's not something we had to worry about last year because the Cowboys were picking at the top. But when we're talking about grades, Cowboys are picking twenty eight. They're picking four spots from the end of the round, right, So I think it's a whole day. It's gonna be exactly all the way through, from first to seventh. I think it's gonna be important to note. You know, when you say a guy has a second round grade, you saying top

of the second round. You're saying, I mean, ye, see, the second round pick for the Cowboys is probably a third round grade. That's a great point day because traditionally in a draft room, in a war room setting, though, if you're picking it to back into the draft, you almost have to think a round early, right. You know, if you're thinking that, uh, say, O, our Villanova guys gonna be there in the third round, you might it's

that that's you might have to hit that one. If you have a third round grade, it might mean you actually have to take him in the bottom of the second so you can make sure so when you're picking up high, you could kind of play your board when you're picking low at the back end. You got to almost think around early, which okay, so I'll take it all the way back around Dane. Okay, let's say DJ Smoot Dayne Smoot is a second round grade. If he's there when the Cowboys picking the second how do you

feel about that? I mean, does that excite you or because the Cowboys will be picking at the end of the second. So yeah, for me, I have a solid second. The way I do my grades is I give ones or one, twos, twos or two three, And so if a players at two three, then I'm thinking late third, early second. But if he's a solid two like I have on Smoot, then you could kind of set it your board. You could set board within the round, put tags up on top, put tags on the bottom, right,

so you do have some separation in the board. Just what like Dane's talking about, I've had guys before where you know, like Jason Witten. I'll give you example. The grade was a one one nine. That was the last first round grade we had in that draft. So the lower the number, the higher the grade, the higher the guy is up on your board, so you have to be you can you can set it how you know, you think, Okay, this guy's a bottom of the first type of a player, So you would have a problem

if they took smooth at twenty eight. You would because you think, I think they're better players available. Yes, I don't think he's one of the top twenty eight players in this draft. Okay, well, let me ask you about this. We kind of talked about the way and stuff and all that, and the South team. No really surprised with the South with any of the measurements to anybody come in. That was just a surprise. We talked about a few of them who the surprises. Gerald Everett the talent to

tight end from South Alberta eight and a quarter inch hands. Yeah, that's really surprising for a big tight end. I mean he's what six two in and three quarters two or twenty seven pounds. I mean ideally you want nine and a half to ten inch hands, and he came in close to eight inches. So drops weren't a huge problem on his film. He did have some drops, but it's something that does matter hand size with pass catchers. So that was a little bit of a surprise for the

south and then if we want to jump to the north. Yeah. The big surprise in a good way for me was Jordan Lewis, the Michigan corner. Yes, a guy that's listed at five to eleven, but you watch him and he's he's nowhere near five. He's a short player on film talking to scouts who they measured him in the spring at five nine about five a's right, and so I'm I've been under the assumption all year that this is a player five ten, right, And there's a lot of teams.

If you're under five ten, they won't consider you in the top fifty picks. Will Will McClay he's allergic to small quarters player. The packers are like that. Yeah, there were plenty of teams that are like that. And so for a player like with like Lewis, who has some first round traits, just not the size for him to weigh in this morning at five ten even. It doesn't sound like a big deal, but that's a win for him. And not only five ten even, but one eighty eight

and thirty one inch arms really impressive. Were a lamp the offensive line. We talked about who could be the next Zach Martin had thirty one in an eighth in charms. Jordan Lewis is just an eighth shy of that. So for him to come in at five ten to even thirty one inch arms, it's gonna be tough to keep this guy on the first round. You know what, you could kind of you could work with a guy like that if he does have the long arms, if we and there's plenty of times on Michigan tape where you

could see him breaking passes up. Oh, I mean, and and his ball skills are outstanding, right, and he plays tight coverage. He loves the blanket receivers. It's it's just the size that worries you, because there are also times where he is just a few inches shy of making a play, both in run support and uh in coverage. So in the back of your mind you worry about drafting a player that's only five ten. But get this guy on my team, right, You know, I have in

my top fifty that I released last week. I think I had him at thirty nine. He's better than that, And yeah, I thought so too, and this and this, and I missed him. I missed him, And then the other day he's I mean, and we talked about that last week. He's a better pure cover guy. I blew him him. I mean it was. It was one of those things where you need to go back and why watching him move around live, that's what live Watching kids play live, that's what it does to you a little bit.

You're watching taping, you know, like you're saying, he was thinking, oh, he's a short guy. That's a short guy out there, and then you watch him play and you're like, going, well, he's not playing short, He's not. I mean, he's knocking the you know, he's knocking, he's movement, all that stuff.

Cup Verse Jordan Lewis was it might be my favorite matchup of this entire week when those the Eastern Washington wide receiver, the best wide receiver in FCS history in terms of production, going up against Jordan Lewis that that's been a fun matchup to watch. Yeah, cup Is, he's six one and a half one pounds, very savvy guy. He's not gonna you know, he's probably a four or five athlete. He's better football player than an athlete. But he's so savvy. He understands how to get open, manipulate

the middle of the field from the slot. Uh so for lewis a big test to you know, stay glued to him and knocked out passes, which he did in practice today. I'll give Cup and I wrote about this on my ten points. I'll give Cup some credit. They did a stalk drill where they had to the the corners had to fight the wide receivers to get off and try and get in on the play. Cup went after. And I think Desmond King is one of the toughest secondary guy. I mean, I'm talking corner safety, physical, rough,

rugged type of guy. And Cup they I mean there was a collision and he was able to manipulate King out of the play to allow the ball to go to the outside. I mean, I think that's pretty impressive right there, because I can say I I think I have the utmost respect for King and how physical he plays well. Speaking of King, yeah, short arms, Yeah, this is a player who and he's not gonna run exceptionally well, no, he's not. I grated him better as a safety, I do,

and I think this is safety. I think you got him right. He's oh man, he said it like you sounded bummed out because last year when I watched him play, I thought you know, when you look at some of the matchups and having eight picks, I'll do for you. Yeah, it's like you're sitting there and you're you're kind of thinking, man, this might be the best corner in the draft because of the physical nature his ability to run with this guy when you know, stay with him, play in position

almost be a little cheap in the way plays. You know, he's still that way. He's a dirty guy. He has a dirty Yeah, he's a dirty player, and you know what, I respect him for it. Yeah, you would, because he you know, but we were watching tape of him last year and I'm trying to remember the match. Uh was it pit that a match? It was the BOYD and him and BOYD went at it pretty well, you know, and it was pretty But yeah, I think this kid's gonna have to play safety. I really really do. And

you know what, and I don't. I don't have a problem with that, No, I don't, because of how physically he really really is, right, and I think we could set a lot about you know, the corner doesn't have ideal measurable size all that that. Oh, we'll just moveing to safety. A lot of times that doesn't work. But with King, I think it because he does have that physicality, the toughness that you want where he can show up and run support. So I think that transition He's never

I mean, he's a corner. He's always been a corner, right, and so I think that transition could happen and does make sense. There's a lot of corners in this draft though, Yeah, there's a lot of There are a lot of good corners. So if you're the Cowboys, if you're a fan of the Cowboys, or you're a fan of a of an NFL team out there that, uh, you know needs cornerbacks, this is an opportunity for you to grab a corner. I think that this draft will be loaded with some guys.

I want to get into another the offensive I coming into this and we we had the draft show last week. We talked about the offensive tackles in this uh this draft, Dallas, Dave, you know, we've talked about they could potentially at twenty eight, would you would that be the best player on the board, lingering, Yeah, there's that, Okay? Is it? Is it one of those positions where you go in thinking they need defensive ends, they need corners, but offensive tackle tight ends another person.

We're gonna get into a tight end. I mean, we're gonna get into a tight end here. But these offensive tackles though, going back to I mean, Jerry and Stephen Jones both spoke to reporters today and again it's not groundbreaking information, but they both kind of said, you run into trouble when you just determine that you need a

defensive end and that's what you're gonna do. You gotta have pass rush, gotta have pass rush, and you you know, I think he's just gotta have pass rush, though, well he does have to have pass I mean, there's and I thought Jerry might have had the line of the day because he was like, there's maybe two teams in the NFL that don't feel like they need help at

pass rush. Right Anyway, I think the direct quote from Steven was, you know, you get in you wind up in trouble when you take the best defensive end that's on the board rather than the best player that's on the board. So again, I mean, it's not news, but this is the way the Cowboys have operated. This is the way they've operated since I've been here, and I've been here for four or five years now, so I think it's safe to say that they're gonna abide by

that strategy. It's worked well for him. Well, I'll tell you what though. To me, I mean I I was impressed with just the measurables of that of Zach Banner. I mean, my man is like six eight hundred sixty one pounds. He's not gonna sneak up on anyone because you feel him, you know, you feel the ground shake when Yeah, I mean he's coming. King Kennedy's kid. Yeah, like you said, of immediately, you could see it in

the face. You could see in the face. I mean I looked up when that kid's picture went up on the board. I said, my gosh, he looks like his dad. And I also tweeted out though I feel really old because I was into my very first combine ever nineteen ninety two. His dad was in that combine, and I watched his dad get measured height and weight stand up there, and then I watched his son get measured today. So that just shows you how old brand up, Brian, I am a washed up. Okay, we're gonna take a little

bit of a break right now. We're gonna come back and we're gonna get into more about how some of these guys practiced. You are watching the Draft show and we'll be right back. With unlimited data from AT and T, you can stream your favorite Direct TV content almost anywhere. Side effects may include sports induced public celebrate yes, increased desire to share spoilers, and repeated late night use of the phrase just one more episode. The unlimited effect yet

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You just have to be a fan of draft. And these guys are all a fan of the draft. We'll have some guys they'll come in, you know, from our buddies over at one O five three will help us. So we got a large group of guys that are going to attack this and and try and get you the best possible information. So thanks everybody for watching the show. We're gonna do something right now that we always do. It's a staple that Ed Khill came up with. It

is known as Twitter on the twenty. Twitter on the twenty thanks for the homemade sound of yea, uh, you know a year ago I would have just taken it at face value that this guy's name is Dakota. But we can't have no idea now, but Dakota. He wants to know about a guy that actually popped out to me at the way end this morning. Guy by the name of Obie Mela fawn wu h Safety out of Yukon. Big dude. See, he looked good standing up there talking about looking good on the hoof. I was. I was

kind of like going, that's what I thought. I was sitting there going, Man, if I was somebody, that's what I'd want to look like. I mean he did. He looked like he was. It was somebody like, yeah, somebody he's I was surprised he came in that big. I mean he looks big on tape, but not six to four. Yeah, but he's a square tall guy. He's that hard to be. It's hard to be. But his shoulders. I mean, yeah, he's that strong safety time. Yeah, he come up and

hit you. Uh, he could move a little bit too, so uh, a guy that eager to see this week see how he does. But we're strong in a free but the pad's coming on. We get some of the nine on seven stuff and all that. That's what you to see him probably shine more than maybe the one on one stuff. If you're watching on the NFL network, you know, you gotta you know, like he looked bad that time. Well, where he might shine is more the down the box stuff where he could be a little

bit more physical. Right, He'll he'll struggle in coverage a little bit. That's what his tape says. So it'll be the same this week, but he'll has been good moments as well. Yeah, boy guys a good looking kid. Yeah, so we talked about we talked about Lewis from Michigan earlier. Yes, we've I think we can also we've safe to say we've covered Desmond King and Trey White for the most part.

Trey White's the best corner here. I think. Yes, I am I and I and I and I hate to do that because I was telling Dane earlier when I when we when we talk about Lsu kids, you know, you feel like you're you're you're selling a kid. And I love Mo Clayborne. I do. This kid's a really good football player. He's gonna be a first round football player. And so yeah, any anytime I'm selling a guy, he thinks, so too. For whatever. That's well, no, and that's okay,

I'm okay with that. If you can think that, go ahead. Well okay, Well I'm sorry. I was gonna say, which is quick on White? I was watching and drills and well, no, I think he's late first, early second in that range. Right. I was talking to a dB coach for a team in the AFC, and I asked him. I was like, so, who do you think of these corners? Who do you like the best? And he said, honestly, I haven't seen a look of these guys. This is my first time seeing any of them. If I tell you Lsu White

right there, it's a good first impression. Yeah. I mean he was Dwayne Walker, the Browns defensive backs coach. He was using White to a show the other corners, how did you example? He was an example. He knew that he only had to explain at once and White was gonna know exactly what to do and do it correctly. So, I mean, he just he's that four year guy, four year starter. I think him returning for a senior year was one of the best decisions he could have made

instead of coming out last year like he almost did. So. Uh something for those juniors to think about coming back for your senior year and how much of an impact it come day plays outside and in the slot as well. He does it all. He returns punts too. Yeah, not very well. But as in the NFL, not very well.

Uh sorry, we kind of got sidetracked. Sorry, but Grant already Aside from the obvious guys, Grant wanted to know about, you know, some maybe two to four round corners, mid tier corners that that people can look for at the Senior Bowl. Let's see who we have here. We talked about Lewis m CAZy from San Diego State's an interesting guy. He was very interesting guy. Guy loves to get his hands on the football. Yeah, he'll take a little too many, too many chances at times, but uh he had to

love the aggressive this. He'll tell you what. Chad Williams took him to the Cleaners statewider. Yeah, and that's another guy, Chad Williams Oe And I know we'll get into him a little bit later, but I'll tell you what though. Yeah, these corners, I mean it was, uh, you get chance see corn Elder at all to Miami. I was trying to pay attention to him, and I always found myself going somewhere else. He's he's a really he had a few really good games. He's year at the Florida State

tape shouts out. The North Carolina State or the North Carolina tape stands out. And I thought he did a nice job today. Eager to see more and one on one matchups going against receivers. But he's not the biggest guy, but he's very tough. I think he fits that, you know, the slot, which you want a nickel corner guy who can line up over the slot and stay attached to that receiver. I think he's a guy that's gonna make a lot of money in the NFL and not be a first round pick, but be in that second the

fourth round. And we brought up King. We kind of think maybe King might be a that type of a player as well. Uh not not at the Senior Bowl, but we're hoping he would be at the Senior Bowl. What is y'all's level of concern about Tack McKinley's labor m injury? So what the combines for? You know, we'll find out more with the combine with you know, he hasn't that surgery yet. They're still trying to figure that out.

You know, he's seeing getting different opinions about the shoulder, if whether or not he'll have surgery, and you know, go from there. But the combine will tell us exactly what's going on with the rehab, with when he'll be one hundred percent, any long term worries and hopefully there's nothing long term. Hopefully he can work out, you know, before the draft. And do you like Lawson better than him? They're close, yes, so that I'm the same way I've

got McKinley. I got McKinley above above Lawson. But it's that whole big thing about Carl Awston right now. Yes, Yeah, I'm sorry, Yeah, people want me say that Lawson Auburn. Somebody was asking me when y'all get into your draft nerds, it's like Lawson, Yeah, we got to make sure we say the school but yeah, I think that to me, if he's gonna have to get the surgery, get it now, let's not get it. You know last year what happened

with some of those kids. Buffalo took the two games, and next thing you know, it's they have to have surgery. They can't. Yeah, I mean you lose a whole year. Yeah, you lose a whole year on that. And get the surgery now if you have to, and then you know, try and play it up until you get to this

to the training camp. Something you have to consider with McKinley because he's not the biggest guy, doesn't have the best body armor, right, uh, And so you know, can he take consistent punishment going up against you know, offensive tackles all game from sixteen game schedule. He played a lot of the season with as a hamstring injury, right, He was banged up a lot. So it's just something you have to consider in the overall evaluation. Yeah too, And then you like a guy that's been banged up

a lot in his career. O DIGGI zawat use another Ucla guy? Yeah? What's with Ucla guys? I'm just I mean, I mean that, but you watched the tape. I will say this though, about him against Banner holding up at the point of attack. That three hundred and sixty pound body was coming off and he was able to kind of hold his own in there, so he knows how to use his hands to keep it clean. But get the surgery has I'm not trying to be just get it done, like, I don't want it to be something

hanging over his head. And you're right, we get to the combine, it'll all be standing there and he'll he'll be up there and and then medical information will leak out that he has to have the surgery, and then we'll all be Like I talked about it the Second

Draft show, I had a conversation about this. Not to be an l Shoe hommer, but I was having a conversation with somebody about Kendall beckwith yeah, yeah, he's got an injury, and they're they're being really hush hush about it, and I'm just like, dude, just just hell, just figure out what it is like in this day and age. No, you're not going to scare too many people off. If they think it's an injury, they can do. I mean,

Jalen Smith le sit in the top fifty. Yeah, if you get get this, get whatever surgery you need, be honest about it, you're gonna get drafted. I don't get the need for like the secrecy or the delaying. So anyway, David Brian, you're gonna love this question. Yeah. We talked about oj Howard, We talk about Jake Butt as a consideration as a risky pick because of his injury. Does the presence of Rico gathers on the Cowboys roster do anything for you? And you know, maybe they don't need

a tight end? You know, this is something that I can't really speak to because I don't I haven't seen him at practice. Yeah, so because that's we knew, we know the raw ability, but how is he progressing as a football player. Yeah. See, that's the thing. It wasn't the athletic ability with and that's what I mean. Remember Jason Garret would all tell us though, if they could hold up scout team cards and say, okay, Rico, you're gonna go whoop over here and then do that, then

that was gonna be okay. But I will say this, I had people come up to me and say, because I was always curious about Rico and I had people come to me and say, you got to see what Romo did with him today. You have to see what Romo how Romo threw him because Romo was with him on scout team, and Romo just kept throwing the ball because he was so much bigger. I mean, he was battling Church, he's battling Jones, He's battling Wilcox and Heath, and the kid just kept making plays. The problem is

it's not the athletic ability, it's the mental side. And I don't mean the mental side like me, like play a couple of games out of helmet. Just hasn't. Yeah, he just hadn't played football. That is fascinating to me because I mean, oh, Romo. They said Romo would just light him up. We're so intrigued by O J. Howard because he's got this freakers athletics. Rico gathers as an athletic dude. I mean, if he can put it all together, what if what if you had both? What if you

had both? Which you can't realistic going to next season? Now you're expecting him to be a number two. I think I think I'll tell you what you could you could realistically go in there and think that O. J. Howard, and I'll tell you something I wrote about it today as well. The Browns coaches used him more in line, Dane. Did you notice that more is a more's a true?

Why which I don't know. I don't know if he was showing to me because if you watch him in Alabama, he plays detached, he plays as a wing, he plays as a move and so I mean they kind of showed him running routes from in line when I thought that was a thought, I thought Hugh Jackson. Their staff did a nice job of kind of and every route he ran he separated from somebody. I mean it was separation. I'm gonna set you up a good question from James.

I feel like I know where you're gonna go with this maybe, but we'll see um not so much receivers, but are there any return specialist guys that you might have an eye on out here? I know, for me personally, I want to see Donal Pumphrey. That's where I thought Brian was gonna go. See. I was kind of thing he give away and I knew I was again. Another guy wrote about today, I love the quickness of the player,

I really do. And Dane made a great point. He goes, Brian, he's one sixty nine, he's won sixty FBS all time leading rusher. Yeah, what are you sixty nine pounds? He goes, what are you gonna do? I'm well, and that's the thing I'm gonna I'm just gonna be I'm just a white head. But that's that's fair. That's fair. But that's why that's fair. You know when he punt returns he had at San Diego State zero. Yeah, And so that's why I want to see this week is can he

field punts? Can he? You know? Does he? There's a lot that goes into it. It's not like it's an easy transit time, so you try to get rid of the lucky white head. I mean, I want to see can Pumfrey take on the punt return responsibilities? And not only so he can do it cash, Yeah, not only do it, but be actually effective at it. Because if he can do that, then there's a spot for him on my roster because then I can use him on offense and a certain pack let me tell you what.

They couldn't cover the key coming out of the backfield. Yeah, he would come up explode to his left and they just and he just you see it. I mean and even even the even the vision. I love the kid's vision. I love to watch San Diego stay tape where him just taking the ball and making cuts and stuff like that. I can we right now stop the Darren Sproles comparisons because people think that it's not that thick No, it's not. I guess so many what is he like Darren Sproles.

Everybody says Darren Sproles is short, but he's also like one ninety Yeah, that's the thickness. So he can legs, but yeah, to come between tackles at times where pum free one hundred and sixty nine pounds, very lean and he's not getting any bigger, all right, five o eight two, so he's just to tick over five eight but in small hands. Yeah, but he's guy's a good football player. He can make guys miss. Yeah, find ways to kind

of get gay like down on the field. But you're right, see if you can find Yeah, that's the great thing about these bowl games. Maybe there's somebody that is a return to that you kind of don't know about it. And then when we sit get get back to the star, we'll sit down and watched the tape. See how the returners look Dorry Jackson. They have to exactly, that's a guy we're gonna be talking about a lot. I'm sure I had to watch that Utah tape. I told you

about the Utah tape. Yeah, I got bullied a little bit in the Utah game. Some people said he got a little bit bullied against Penn State in the Rose Bowl. Yeah, there's a lot of bad tape fire that people like a lot. Yeah, that tends to happen when you've got a guy that makes like Lightning Rod type plays. I feel like all this kid is Pepper Bill Peppers. Yeah, somehow he was in New York for the hisman and

he wasn't the best player on his own defense. I mean, when you get this much amount of attention on right, Yes, I know there are plenty of Michigan fans who will tell me that he was not the best player on that Michigan defense. Scot scouts will get the media caught up on that one. I mean, Lewis Charlton thirty second ranked player on your top fifty of I believe, right, all right, Eddie's I got one more, Eddie wants to know. And this is I mean, I think this is a

fair question. You got if Tyron Crawford stays at end. I mean, it's so it's so early to try to predict this stuff. You see three tech as something that needs looking at, even with Malie Collins having a good year. Yeah, people are trying to get that Florida State kid on board. I believe Walker. Yeah. Do you kind of think Walker's a three technique for Florida State? Yes, but he's not

a three down three technique? Yeah, I mean he do you do you think he can hold up versus to run as a three technill he I know, but is he better than is he better at three technique for three downs than the year is playing defensive end? It's that's tough because yeah, and I know, I know what you're saying. I don't I worry about I think he could be a liability as a three technique on first and second down, whereas an edge rusher, He's I don't think he's as much a liability. He's just not gonna

get to the quarterback. So you're saying, yeah, it's you're not gonna have a true You're not have a true end. But you have a nickel player as a three technique to get attack. Here in lies the problem with Marcus Walker is what how do you what do you do with watch the old miss game. You drafted him in the first round. Let's oh my god, I watch all of his highlights. Yeah, and they come against the guard,

because that's what I'm saying. They're all against the guard, the attack or the guard or the edge rushers going outside right room in the middle for him to beat a slow footed guard and it just looks easy. Let me keep this Senior Bowl oriented real quick. I'm and this has been a great place to watch defensive tackles over the last Oh yeah, Donald was here, Austin Johnson and the Dolphins Washington. Who there were like eight six good d tackles out here last year. Who who we

got this year? Who are we looking at? Anybody? My boy from Charlotte, Larry Ogun Jobie, he walked past me today, big dude. Let me tell you what, man, that's some of a gun could get up the field now and he and in a matter of fact, you you told me he's coached by at Charlotte. He's coached by a former pro player Aaron Curry, the former top five pick out of Wake Forest. Who who's a bust. Yeah he has a nine draft but he Yeah, he's the defensive line coach at Charlotte. Now, um, and I'll tell you

Larry Ogman, Jobi is fascinating story. Yeah, I'll tell you what. He was a pain in the rear to block in the one on one drills today. He was attacking that the centers had problems. He was attacking snap hand. You know what I'm saying. Snap. You know, centers have a hard time of snapping the ball and then getting that hand up. But he was to the edge to the corner before they even had a chance to get their snap hand up and to try and stop. And started

at the way in. He looked really good at the way in six two and a half, three or four. And this is the player who in high school he waited over three hundred fifty pounds. He had a lot of issues with his weight, finally started getting conditioned. His work ethic is you know, turned around to Charlotte. He was part of the first recruiting class at Charlotte when they was building a program. He's one of the founding players of this program, and he's going to be their

first draft pick. Where's he go I mean third round? I would I think he's a third round player, might even go on possibly high. Yeah, you mean the workouts and stuff like that. He's gonna do great in the shuttle drills and things like that because of his quickness. I mean, he was a problem today. He was a nose guard on tape and that three four that they ran. But yeah, put play him on the edge in the edge technique tech. Yeah, let him get up field. Yeah,

be disruptive. All right, we're gonna take our final BREAKO. When we come back, we're gonna have some more talk, kind of get into maybe what we're gonna see tomorrow. We got full pads for both teams tomorrow, so we'll be right back with the draft show. To work this big land, you need equipment with values rooted as deep in Texas soil as you are. Like John Deer. Compact tractors with a six year power and training warrant to him. Big features that help you work less so you have

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Scott and White dot com. This is the Dallascowboys dot Com drapped you back here from Mobile, Alabama for the Senior Bowl. Brian brought us here with Dame Brugler, David Hellman, Kent Garrison executive producer. Big shout out to Kent for coming in and turning a hotel room into a little studio and we appreciate all his hard work. Make sure you're going to Dallascowboys dot Com. There's a lot of really good stories up. Matter of fact, we've got we've

got Senior Bowl stuff up. It's gonna go up this week. We've got guys covering the Pro Bowl as well. Else right now, we got Brian's first notebook. You're gonna write two or three more of those. Yeah. Absolutely, I've got several updates from talking on the Joneses today, We've got videos coming up from the Jones and actually, yeah, our homies just texted me that they just landed in Orlando. So we'll be having Pro Bowl coverage all week as well.

So yeah, just make sure you go to Dallas Cowboys dot com and make sure you go to a CBS Sports dot com as well. Check out Dane Brugler's find work over there. He is putting up a lot of good content reports, things like that, observations, all things that can make you a smarter evaluator of the draft coming up. So, Okay, I talked about this, I teased it a little bit.

Tomorrow's the padded practice. I think these coaches do a really nice job of tailoring the practices to allow the scouts and the coaches to really get a good handle on what, you know, what they could see from these kids. You know, physically, I hope Mike Tomlin's out there Boston people around he usually is. He is. He gets down the field and just starts to me like he's on the coaching stuff. Yeah, he just just yells at everybody. But see how that works with the Browns coaching style.

It's a great point. That'll fly or not that won't be. That won't be work too well. But but let's talk talk about Dave tomorrow. We we've talked about offensive lineman. These defensive linemen. You know, we'll get some that nine on seven stuff. We're gonna get some one on one. Uh, you know, the pass rush stuff. We get a little of that today. But the pads just a little bit different. See how these kids carry their patch, right, Yeah. I

mean it's like it's like training camp. They Jason Garrett makes them go through those two days in shorts and it's just kind of like yeah, uh so, yeah, pads come on and I mean they're not gonna be killing each other obviously, but um and you know, for me, I got to see basic for Desmond King, he'll hit somebody. Well, Hey, I'm glad you said that because I want to see And everybody's gonna be watching the pass rushers obviously, but I want to see the dbs. I want to see

what these guys look like. Uh, they should have opportunities to make plays with the you know the one on one and seven on seven and having a chance to actually get out there and kind of make some contact. I mean, I've seen plenty of tradevious White, but I want to see him go against these guys. Desmond King has been interesting to me for multiple years now, So yeah, I'm excited to see those guys day. The biggest thing for me is progression. I want to see progression throughout

the week from these guys. What they did wrong today? Do they work on that tomorrow and Thursday and through the week and get better and really implement the coaching that they're getting. Um, you know, they're getting a first class education this week from NFL coaches and so you know they're getting a lot of FaceTime not only on the field with what we saw today, but also in the classroom with these with these coaches about different techniques, what they want to see, and so a lot of

these guys struggled today. It's first practice. You're you know, new coaches, new verbiage, new teammates. I mean, there's just so much new coomanatcha that it could be a struggle, but I want to see. So it's okay for the first day to see struggles. It don't make any you know, strong opinions based on one day. But tomorrow and Thursday, let's see improvement in those areas. Let's see you get better and really implement the coaching that you're getting. Yeah,

I think you make a great point. I think both of you make a great point. I this is the opportunity in our own h from Dallas Cowboys. Dak Prescott at DAK even tweeted that out. Hey, you know, every rep is important, whether you're you know, walking to into the huddle or you're going onto the field, you're always being evaluated. I think that's where these coaches, these scouts, these are the first impressions. I mean Dak Prescott's first impression on Scott Lenahan. The scouts and all that scouts

had seen him at Mississippi State. But these coaches now they're now getting into the scouting process. And you know, it was the coaches that really pushed hard to get Dak Prescott selected so every everything like you guys were talking about, is important, and every rep they take, you know, every missed assignment, it's like, you know, hey, we tried

to coach his kid up. You know, if you're a Cleveland Brown or you're a Chicago Beart and you're thinking, we tried to coach his kid up and he couldn't pick up what we're doing. It's a test for these kids. Hey, And I mean obviously the practices are the krem della krem, but I mean I thought Dak made a great point like walking through the lobby with people and you know we're here doing the podcast, we're gonna go eat and all that stuff. Players and coaches and scouts are they're

working until midnight. They're interviewings and interviews. So it's a long week for these players and they got to be on for basically all of it. And the Senior Bowl is a great opportunity for these coaches not only to find out, you know, like who might fit, but cross guys off the list. You know, guys that struggle throughout the week or you know, don't maybe fit the culture or the scheme. So yeah, this is this is a job interview. You know, it's this isn't the Pro Bowl,

Pro Bowls a reward, you know, this is different. This is a job interview. These guys are taking it serious and they know there are dollars and cents on the line with everything they do, every move they make this week. Yeah, I think why it is so important though. You know, we've seen some guys. We saw some some nice plays today, my little wide receiver Switzer a couple of times Coldby's that's that's that's a very similar builds even. But yeah,

you're seeing guys that are there. He's playing slot, he's they're trying him outside. I mean, they're trying to do things with these kids to test them, to test them, to see if in fact that they can handle what's being thrown at them. And I, you know, and I think really like you said, Dany, I think the next two days are really really important. Hell, you know, Jerry Jones, Stephen Jones, you know, they they they've got coaches at

the Pro Bowl. It's been really easy for them to load up and go fly to the Pro Bowl and hang out with a bunch of guys who were h you know, who have already made it. They chose to be here because they know how important this draft is. Forget the Joneses. Uh, Thomas to meet Tommy Day, my buddy, Tommy Day, I would still be spraying champagne everywhere if I were then, I don't know. You come here and you have everybody congratulated. You can't walk ten feet like

a backslap to it. I sent him. I sent him a text message, Thomas to Mitchell. Tommy used to sleep on my couch when he was a young scout NFL Europe, and you know, but I sent him a text. I'm like, hey, congratulations, man, it's about time. You know, he'd been into Super Bowl in New England all but yeah, this is important. This is really important. So tomorrow we'll be a big day. We'll be here to cover it for you on Dallas

Cowboys dot com. Uh. You know, we're excited about the opportunity to to bring you the videos, to talk to people. Hopefully we'll bring you a little bit more look at with the draft show things like that, some some stuff with the some more articles and things like that to try and give you a little bit clearer picture of what's going on. So I'm excited about tom I'm excited about these next two days, I really really am and

when what we what holds for them? We entered this week for me, Oj Howard was one and Forest Lamp was two. Yeah, do you agree with that? Coming into the week, I think so okay, Yeah, I think that, you know, Uh, Lamp to me was a guy that I was trying trying to figure it out. I was trying to figure out where he was gonna play. I didn't know is he is he a tackle? Can he be that guard? You know you compared him to take za Zack Martin path, right, So I'm trying to figure

that out. I'm trying, you know, when you're right, the measurables, the fact today that he showed a little bit better inside a handling stuff. When he got out on space, I felt like he was a little bit overextended, maybe leaning too much, But inside he looks pretty good. So I feel like I even remember when Zach Martin was here, it's like a stigma. You don't want to be a guard, you want to be a tackle. But do you kind of feel like that's changing now thanks to Zach Martin?

And Yeah, Stephen Jones said he was like, you can count on us picking up the fifth year option. Zach Martin is very likely going to set the Guard market this. He's not going anywhere. I mean, don't you can't let Zach Oh no, No, that's you know, he's I think he's gonna be a lifelong Cowboy. And that's kind of my point is I feel like in two or three short years, you know, Guard is all of a sudden

like a sexy position. And I maybe I'm giving the Cowboys too much credit, but I think they have something to do with that. Let me give you let me ask you some some days since she talked, and we're running out of time here, but I just want to make sure we get this into the people, the Cowboy fans out there. Was was it addressed because Dak Prescott from here drafted, you know, obviously going to be the Cowboys quarterback in the future. Was there any discussion about

what was going to go on with Tony Romo. I was stunned by how little even Jerry Jones was willing to say. And that's not Jerry Jones. He's not afraid to kind of talk and kind of throw some stuff out there and see what happens. Yeah, and a chum and the water guy, and he was just kind of like, we're gonna cool our jets on talking about this. We're gonna figure it out, but we're not going to talk about it. And then we tried to talk to Stephen about it and he was like, you got the wrong guy. Yeah,

you need to be talking to the other. Jerry, Yeah, this is this is one voice. This I think this is this is gonna be Tony and this is gonna be Jerry. Yeah. I think when then and and we're we'll be there at the combine and I think this

is when talks will really really start. It's gonna be I think this is gonna be unique in the in the in all the world of contract negotiations and free aid all that, I think it's gonna be unique with all of that, because very rarely do you see a player that means this much to this to a franchise at that position move before it's time to call it a career, you know. And so I don't know what's

going to happen. Jerry Jones didn't want to talk about it, and I mean, I don't even I've been saying this since the season and I don't even know how you guess at which way it goes. But it will be fascinating when the wheels finally start. I do. I think when we when we load up and go to Indianapolis and the chance for the Jones is to meet with other general managers, other owners, I think teams are going

to have an idea what they want to do. I think the window to do what they need to do is going to be some time before the league years starts and real quick March ninth, before before we do run at a time. I think that's a great point too. Is Cowboy season ended nine days ago, right last year, they'd had a month to stew about what they want to do and kind of about being the Senior Bowl

in December. They haven't even had their meeting, they haven't even finished their interviews about who did what, how they fight exactly. Yeah, there's a lot of work to do before they can make those kind of determinations. And yeah, I think we'll have a way better idea about it when we get to Andy. Okay, Well they that's it. That's all the time we got for the draft show tonight. I want to thank again David Hellman, Dame Brugler, Kent Garrison, executive.

So I want to thank everybody out there for watching us today and we hope you have a good evening. We'll be back probably about the same time tomorrow, same type of practice schedule, I believe ye. So yeah, we'll look forward to we'll tweet it out on the Draft Show account. So again, thanks for everybody at being out there and we will see it tomorrow.