Draft Show: LIVE From 2016 NFL Combine - Day 2

David Hellman from Dallas Cowboys dot Com and Dan Turner once again joins us on the program. Excited to have everybody. Dave you back in the mix. Thanks for letting me back. Brian, No, no, no, it's gonna get Wally. No, you no problem at all. Man. You had to do your job for Dallas Cowboys dot Com. And I encourage everybody as always who go to Dallas Cowboys dot Com and get all that content. I know Dave has been writing a lot of things, some stories

about some of the guys we've seen. We're still trying to meander our way to this field behind us here, Yeah, tomorrow. I was thinking, Lineman, we're going today. That just shows you old man syndrome right there. I was just conditioned that, Okay, they come in, they talk, they go work out, but we will have the offensive lineman and the running backs working out tomorrow. You get the bench brus today did

get to be something. Yeah, and we'll talk about that because I do want to talk about Yeah, I got something to say. Yeah, yeah for you okay, and and and yeah the kickers, Yeah, that's something that when you got Dan Bailey and I know we're a full service show here. Wait, but I thought we wanted to investigate and education. Yeahs over the kicker kickers, we're just gonna go on. Don't want to Bailey for the Dallas Cowboys

is a great kicker. I want to talk, but I want I do want to get into something because Dane earlier, and we'll get into this later, but it's about this bench press. And you talk to some scouts. It felt like that if you got rid of the bench press, that hey, nobody would miss that. So well, we'll have some fun with some numbers. I know we've got him in front of us. Some guys did lift some guys

didn't lift. We had some running backs come through today, We had some tight ends come through today, but more importantly, we had some quarterbacks come through today, with the exception of one quarterback. Yeah, he's kind of disappointing. Yeah, pack him blew it off. Yeah, Paxton Lynch, my favorite quarterback here in the NFL draft who everybody likes to fight me on. Just not he didn't decide that he didn't want to be part. There's a certain number of guys

that they do a day. He'll pick back up tomorrow. Ezekiel Elliott same thing. We would have got him yesterday, but then he didn't go until almost the end of the day to day he did. And I want to I want to talk about uh, you know, first get into the quarter backs today and and I just want a thought from each one of you. Um, you know it's we're not going to see This is just part of it, the interview part. I want to I want to know your take. Did did some guys handle it well?

Were they agitated? Uh? Did anybody stand out from that group? Again, we've seen two of the guys and then you know, as as far as the first round type guys, you know, but we saw some other guys, you know, with Dak Prescott and Hackenburg and guys like that. So did anybody stick? Yeah, they did in one big one. What do you mean for the Cardel Jones? Oh you're sorry. I'm just gonna keep pounding only Yeah, with two hundred fifty seven pounds. I'll take his four pounds because I need it, right guy?

But yeah, the I was gonna talk about it. You just just the thoughts of the quarterbacks that went through today. And it doesn't have to be about uh, you know with with golf, you know, or you know, with what's going on there with those first round guys, but just talk about what you what you saw today. Well, the first guy saw was Christian Hackenburg and he was seriously impressive. Like he was, He's he's the best we've seen so far, with the exception of potentially Larry Tunstil yesterday, who I

thought stole the show. But the first thing which you notice about Hackenburg is just that he looks like Tony Romo. He sounds like Tony Romo and even as exactly the same mannerisms as Tony Romo, and it's just it's just one of those strange things sort of that. It would almost be quite an easy transition really for Cowboys fans especially to go from someone like Romo to someone like Hackenburg, because they speak in the same way, they seem to

have the same attitude. It's almost like even that little smirk which which Tony Romo gives when he talks Hackenburg. Yeah, that would be nice. Well, that's and we'll get into that. We'll get in that day stuff. Yeah. I actually I just wrote a big, big expose on the quarterbacks that talked today. I encourage you to read it. Dallas Cowboys do Um. I thought the two all right, I mean I really wanted Lynch to talk because that's the trio of first round guys. But but the two the two

first round dudes that did talk, Wins and Goff. I thought it was fascinating that. I thought they both did really well, and I thought they did it in different ways like Winz and we saw Wins at the Senior Bowls, so he kind of knew what to um. He's very robotics maybe not the right word, but he's just he knows how to do this already, like he's polished. He knows how to give the answer. One thing that I always notice is anytime he was asked for something specific,

he found a way to generalize it. Uh. Somebody asked him about working with the Cowboys coaching staff and he was like, yeah, I enjoy working with the Cowboys coaching staff, but I also talked to the Jaguars and these guys and these guys are you know, and he just knows he knows how to play that game exactly. Uh. And then John Maschodot, the Dallas Want of News, I thought, made a great observation that he reminded him a lot of Jason Garrett. I could. I can see it completely

and it's not just the hair. Um. Then you have Jared Goff who and this this sounds like a lazy comparison because they both went to cow But he reminded me of Aaron Rodgers, Like he was very cool and laid back, and he was a little cocky when when people were asking him about his fumble problem, he was like, well how many did I have this year for? Okay, well maybe you should shut up. I mean that's basically

what he said. And I just, you know, cocky, but not I mean justifiably, I would say, I don't think he said anything that he couldn't back up, you know, he kind of he said he thought the stuff about his small hands was stupid, um nine inches exactly. And you know, Aaron Rodgers, he's arguably the best quarterback in the NFL, but he's not afraid of saying something cocky or controversial or speaking his mind. Uh. And so I thought that that's what that reminded me a lot of.

So you got both of these guys. I thought they did excellent in their interviews, but they handled it in very different ways. Dane Burglar and I think the whole hand sized thing is interesting because listen, hand size matters. I mean, we can say, oh, you know, just watch the tape and that's all. You know, hand size doesn't matter when you talk about a team like Cleveland possibly

looking at you at a number two pick. So how much you know, wait, will the Browns put in nine in chants which you know we said it yesterday, the threshold for quarterbacks nine an eighth, nine and a quarter that's you know, kind of where you want, you know, the bare bones what you want. If you're below that, then you're in trouble. And you just look at past examples, you know, guys like Ryan Tannehill he was at nine.

Kaepernick was nine, an eighth, and so can Goff you know, look past the or you know, can he prove to these guys that hand size is not going to be a factor for him and will he be you know, still be potentially the top quarterback for the Browns. The top quarterback on your board last year was Teddy Bridgewater if I'm correct, two years ago, right, two years ago? Right, Okay, Teddy Bridgewater Jamis last year, Jameis Slash Okay, I'm sorry. Both had some hand size. Okay two years ago though,

But now we see Teddy Bridgewater play double gloves. Yeah, and so you know that was some of the stuff that we heard from Britain out any shot that we see, you know, even the Super Bowl winning quarterback this year playing with a glove on, you know. I mean Bridgewater did that in college too, so he was used to it. You know, That's that's what he was accustomed to. Um. I don't think we're gonna see that with with Goff. Um. But it's it's just, you know, we talk about puzzle pieces.

It's just another puzzle piece, uh, you know, in order to figure out who this guy is going to be at the next level, is not going to make or break him as a player, but it's just another puzzle piece that we have to kind of figure out how it fits and what kind of factor it's going to have moving forward. Cocky or irritated today, I don't. I didn't. And it was a little contentious there when we were

talking about the fumbles in the hand side. Oh he went after that reporter, Yeah, and Jeff Kavanaugh from the Draft show kind of defense, Yeah, that the guy didn't have the answer, and Kavanaugh screams out he had four fumbles this year. And the guy, you know, and and and you could see Golf kind of gave Jeff like a thanks, look, you know, kind of like a yeah, you're with me. I don't think that it ever really

got really testy. And and here's my approof is the same guy that asked about the fumbles that originally irritated him came back and said, well, you're one in eleven year where you had all these fumbles as a freshman or whatever. You know, how did that help research grow from that? Right or whatever? He said? And Goff went right, and he was like, absolutely, this is why da da da da da da da. And you know, he never

really seemed overly flustered by anything that happened there. And I mean, I just think it was his demeanor the whole you know, he was he was just calm and kind of nonchalant the whole way through. It wasn't like he got up or down over the course of it. Yeah, I don't. I don't actually mind a quarter about being a bit cooky, and I think i'd argue that you want it, yeah, exactually they need to be sure. I mean,

there was a bit of a difference. So Knakook came on I think just before um just before golf, and he had a similar sort of cockiness, but it was it was in a different way. It was almost in an arrogant sort of boy, as if he was trying to build himself up all the time, whereas Jared Goffe it was almost as though he was just trying to explain. He would basically take take different points and just put them down one by one. He wasn't and he'd he'd

give people proof as well. So like with the fumballs, he would say, well, how many fumballs did I have in the last year? So I thought he had a really good press conference to day, and he's the sort of guy who you don't you don't drop him at all because of the day. A quarterback there and press me was Dak Prescott, And yeah, I think that's what you expected. And you know I've said this before and

I'll say it again. If the Cowboys don't go quarterback at four, I think Dak Prescott it makes a lot of sense in the third or the fourth round for this team. He mentioned he met with Cowboys last night informally with coach Wilson, and so you know, I think it could be a fit. I think with his best attributes are his poise, his leadership, the way he carries himself. That leadership, I think that's something that will really appeal

to this team. Is he ready for NFL snaps right now as a starter, No, But I think he's a guy you can bring in for good value. You have to love his resume in the sec um A tremendous production and not only production but development. I think you know said this before, but he was a thrower in twenty fourteen as a passer fifteen, I think there's a big difference in two thousand fourteens when we heard all

the Heisman talk. Twenty fifteen was a much better year for him, at least on film and from an evaluation standpoint. So I think Dak Prescott, we're going to see him as possibly linked to the Cowboys. But it makes a lot of sense. How about his throwing motion though, Yeah, and then a little bit and you said a passer or thrower, but there's some things that you see in his throwing motion that a little bit over the top, you know that type of Yeah, it's a little bit

of radic at times. Mechanics start a little bit like Cam Newton's if you look at this mechanical Yeah, like without ritty, he isn't he isn't two drem fifty pounds. So if he can't just scend in the pocket, I mean nice, Yeah, he's not small like Cam Newton can just deflect guys off and he said he can just stand back there, whereas Dak Prescott he has to step up in the pocket more very mobile. Ye, yes, yeah, yeah, but I'm yeah, he still has some learning to do.

But to me, if he can make the same improvement from last year to the NFL that he made from two thousand and fourteen to two thousand and fifteen, there might actually be something there, and obviously the development on his own just makes me intrigued. I felt like, listening to the quarterbacks that spoke today, I felt like that he was the most ready, you know, every everybody. It seemed like that the other guys came in thinking, Okay,

I'm in for a fight. It's it's almost like watching we're in this we're in this election season, and these candidates stand up there and they and they seemed like people are poking holes in him and they're trying to deflect things and pass this off. But I felt like, though that that Prescott seemed very comfortable with who he was and not having to deflect as much. I would argue, and I don't think any prospect or maybe in their heart of hearts they're not can admit this. But nobody

thinks Dak Prescott is a first round pick. The rest of these guys, you can find somebody who will argue that they will be even Hackenburger Cook, you know they're getting You're talking about them potentially being a first round pick. I don't think anybody thinks that's the case with Dak, so I think the pressure on him and the types of questions he was getting were probably a lot less uh, you know, high profile less scrutiny. Yeah. Uh, what was interesting for me with him and Dane alluded to the

fact that he talked to Wade Wilson last night. What did he say that Wade Wilson said that was and like my ear, your ears perked out, he said, back up, he said, they want you know, they want a quarterback. They need a quarterback in this offseason cycle. Uh, he said. They talked about the picks they have, like this is the range where we're thinking that we could sure, you know, fourth rounds and you would come in and be come in and be behind Tony Romo. And like, none of

that is brown Gray, I said that backward. None of that is groundbreaking, right information, But it's still very interesting when you hear somebody talking about a Cowboys official admitting these things and talking about they'll probably say the similar thing to other quarterbacks that they meet with and so, but yeah, it is interesting. I think the best thing you can say about Dak is what Dan Mullen, his head coach a Mississippi stay said about him. He called

him the best player he's ever coached. This is the same Dan Mullin that coached him TV Sam Dan Mullin that coached Alex Smith at Utah has coached a lot of very good players, but he singled out Dak is the most impressive that he's ever had the pleasure of coaching. Go ahead, I'm sorry. Yeah, Well, I mean Jason Garrett loves intangible was in a player as well, and I have the feeling because he was an ex quarterback himself. He's going to get a big say in who the

quarterback they picked this year is. And in terms of intangibles, Dak Prescott is as good as anyone in this class. Normalnessy, he's a lead, that's all right kind of guy. Oh yeah, let me flip this in on you guys then, And I know I can create a little argument here before we go to break Danny. Sell me on Christian Hackenburg, though, sell me on why I should it? Maybe at thirty four consider I mean, and I'm going to give you

an opportunity to rebut they'll look on Dane's face. But how about just okay, just a draft, you know, give me and I know you'll agree. There's some point you were draft. But you make an argument for him if you can here in a couple of minutes. I think he has the best armed talent in this entire class. I mean in terms of just pure throws. If if he just stood there tomorrow we're going to see him or the day after tomorrow, he'll be throwing out in

the field. He'll be the best quarterback there in my opinion, just in terms of it'd be the best thrower there in my opinion. And his flaws are actually quite fixable in my opinion. So the um so one of them is the offensive line. Obviously he can't have it. He didn't have anything to do with that. But again it could be ingrained. So and if it is in grain, then this guy's going to bust in the NFL. And I accept that. I'll admit if I'm wrong if it does.

But I mean his his flaws from a technical standpoint are he doesn't really align his feet when he throws. But Jamis Winston had exactly the same thing last year. By week one in the NFL, Jamison had fixed it. So this is this is this isn't a fundamental mechanical floor. This is something which he can fix in his throwing motion. This is something which I don't think it's I don't think there's anything any serious underlying issues here as long

as he can next thing. Because of this offensive line, the rory is that he'll start seeing ghosts in the pocket, and when quarterbacks start doing that then this then they can't play in the NFL. But I'm still willing to take a chance in this guy because because to me, drafting someone like Christian Hackenburg shows ambition. It shows me. It shows me that the Cowboys want a potential franchise quarterback.

Not obviously someone like Brandon Allen might be a nice pick, but his upside is a low quarter is a low quarterback one on a team. So where's Christian Hackenburg? He has upside? Is he your last franchise potential quarterback? Yeah? Okay, so you're going to fight for him if I if you can't have one of the three, then this would be your your number four guy to go to. In all honesty, I might take him over Wentz as well. I just don't. I just don't trust when Hart tag

that's very that's very Dame Burglar. You you you'll line up on the other side and get him. I mean, there's there is a point in the draft where you know, I'm taking a chance on on Christian Hackenburg. But I'm just I'm worried he's damaged goods already. You know, I really and you you kind of talked about that, like

you know, that is the possibility. And his tape was bad and a lot of a lot of examples, a lot of games, and a lot of it had to do with the offensive line, a lot of it had to do with the coaches and the play calling, but a lot of it was on him too. I think the game just moves at light speed for him, and I just haven't seen signs of it's slowing down. And so I really worry about how natural the game comes to him, and is he damaged goods already? It? Can

he show improvement? Will he get better when the game's only gonna get faster at the next level. But you know, he's absolutely right about the arm talent. I mean, he makes throws that most quarterbacks in this draft, or you know, most quarterbacks on this planet are physically unable to make, and so I think that is appealing. I just think Christian Hackenberg will be drafted higher than I would want

to take a chance on him. I think once you get into the fourth round, outside the top one hundred, I would maybe think about taking a chance on him, depending on my other options. But I think he's gonna be long gone. I think he's even be somewhere in

the top fifty top sixty picks. Thing is, I think he has probably a fifty percent chance of busting, and so I agree with that, But they're just the fact the high percentage for a guy that you want to take that high no, but the fact that to me, he there's a twenty five thirty percent chance that he can be a quality franchise quarterback. I'm taking that chance every single time because I want I want a quality

quarterback on this team. And if he does bust, then we draft another one, and then we draft another one. And although it may not sound like a good plan, but to me, that's that's what I want in this class. I don't I don't want to I don't want any of these lower level quarterbacks. I don't want to try to develop a backup here. And there's something absolutely to what you're saying. I mean, I'm along the same lines where you keep drafting quarter I draft a quarterback every year.

You know, it's it's a lot. See what you can get. You might, you might hit, you might. You're gonna miss on a bunch, but you only need to hit on one. So I agree there, I just the value. You know, you have to take him. If you're the Cowboys, you'd have to take him a thirty four. And to me, that's just too rich. I couldn't do it, but hey, it could pay off if he if he ends up

hitting well. Bill O'Brien was asked earlier today about Christian Hackenburg and does he have starting ability in the National Football League, And O'Brien goes, you know, I look, and again I'm just starting in on these guys that think Christian's a very talented guy. But there's a lot of talented quarterbacks in this league. To stand up here in answer whether a guy is starting ability, I mean, it's

very very difficult started quarterback in this league. And he was, you know, he was talking about him as a as a type of kid, the families, from how he enjoyed recruiting him. You know, maybe he's not trying to tip his hand here, but he was very much the you know, hey, look, I'm I'm just going on this journey and he's trying to figure out the One advantage he does have is he has been in college football and probably recruited the lat of these quarterbacks, so he does have some working

knowledge there. You know, I think that you know that it was interesting though the points, and this is the great thing about scouting and sitting in war rooms is the debate. You'll get one guy that is dug in, you get another guy that's dug in on the belief and then you get a guy like Jerry Jones or any other general manager around the league, and then they've

got to make the call on that. And like you said, a Jason Garrett might jump in say hey, well here's here's how I see it, and somebody's feelings is gonna get hurt. But you live to fight another day. So with all that being said, we're gonna take our first break of the day. We will come back. We're gonna do a little Twitter on the twenty and answer some of your questions. You've got the Draft show from the

Combine here in Indianapolis State tuned. We'll be right back introducing ATNT rollover data You're unused planned data automatically rolls over for one month. OH Mobile Share Value plans now come with rollover data on the network with the nation's strungest LTE signal AT and T mobilizing your world. AT ANDT reminds you to never text and drive. It can wait. Available only with AT and T Mobile Share Value plans. Roll over data automatically expires after one month or with

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and sixteen NFL Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. Brian brought a Stain Brugler, David Hellman and Dan Turner joining us today. We appreciate his contributions and only from yesterday, but also today we're gonna get into the part of the show that I enjoy, you know, taking the questions. We always make this about the fans we talk about to investigate and educate. We also want to hear from you, though. The way to get a hold of us is at

the Draft Show. If you follow along. Kent's been pushing out a lot of good things, a lot of good information about the show. It's what's going on here and stuff, So make sure you follow there. That's the way we answer questions at the Draft Show. If you want to fire one and uh, you know, and thanks ed Ka Hill for putting the show together a long time ago and giving us this part of our segment. And with that,

I turn it over to David Hellman. All Right, we're gonna there's a lot of these We're gonna try to get to as many as possible. Laurie wants to know looking for help at wide receiver. Speaking of Bruce Arians when we were off the air, you have any mid round John Brown type, deceptively fast, maybe undersized, may be lesser profile wide receivers that pique your interest. Interesting? Do you think maybe cold Colby Listen B. Maybe Colby Listen B would be a good guy. He's gonna run very well,

I believe here. But the problem with him when you watch him play, I see a really a vertical player quick right, He's yeah, he's you know he is more of a vertical guy. Is stretch of defense? Um, you know, ideally maybe a number four to start off. A guy that interested me quite a bit is Jalen Marshall from Ohio State, a red shirt soft came out earlier. Uh. There's a lot of ability there. Uh. And it's it's it's still in the development phase. You know, he's still

kind of realizing how good he can be. I wish you would have went back to school for another year at Ohio State to you know, continue his development. But there is something there. He can also be a punt returner. So I think Jaylen Marshall, you know, when you get into the fourth, fifth round, he could be an option. Yeah, there's go ahead. Danny Well first of all, shouts out to the sorry because he's one of my Australian friends. He's very good from down Under, but he's not exactly

the fastest play. But a guy who I really like from this year is DeMarcus As. He's from Houston. Okay, yeah, he he had two drops last year. He had quality production. He's probably the best punt returner in this class, or maybe maybe he's up there at least, and he can return kicks as well, and I mean there's just that versatility there. He'll run route as well from the slot.

I don't think he's much of an outside guy. But if you just want someone who will make the roster just purely because of special teams ability and potentially an upgrade over Lucky Whitehead in that way because he can take reverses as well. And I gave him a seventh round. I was not as sold on airs. Yeah, you're absolutely right about special teams. Um, he saw so few routes, you know, everything was most of it was at the line of scrimmage. But I think he's time about speed though.

Right we're struggling right now to fine. I'm looking at my board too, and I'm starting to think maybe you would have to go a little bit earlier that, you know, if you wanted to get somebody that can really really run, well, that's in this year's second and third round. You know,

that's the sweet spot for the receivers this year. So you know, if thirty four of a Corey Coleman's there, or you know, you look in the early third round, you know, is that when you start to think about, you know, maybe a Will Fuller or Rashid Higgins Hollywood who grew up a Cowboys fan. I'm a big believer in Higgins, so he could he could be there in the third round. I'd like that when a guy to me, he was a first round talent, but we'll probably fall

to the mid rounds and he's get Marcus Robinson Florida. Yeah, I heard him speak today and in fairness to him, he sounded really accountable. He called himself selfish and immature. Guess yeah, immature. He'll probably fall down to third or fourth round, but this is this is the first round talent with the ball in hand. I mean, yeah, he said that he looked up to Odell Beckham junior, and

there's there's a certain part of it. There's a certain part of that which you see just in terms of the physicality with ball in hand and the way he can jink through tacklers and he can't be a bit of a body catcher at times, but he sort of gets away with it by coming back for the ball well, so he can really shake at the top of his

routes and get open as well. So that's another guy who I would be interested in as long as the interviews check out in the background check and that's his interviews are as important to his draft, I guess anyone anyone here because he is a first round talent. He's a future NFL starter. But I mean I've I've talked

to some scouts about him and the work the board. Well, yeah, the words selfish in the books the board you know hasn't been put up yet for these Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I would have heard essentially selfish, Uh, you know, doesn't care, doesn't pay attention to detail, can't get out of his own way. I mean, these are the kind of things that have come up. And he was very contrite during

the interview today. Um, and he has to be very convincing during interviews with teams because he does have four suspensions, yeah, um, and that three of those are for for marijuana. The other one was because he met with a marketing lady who was trying to, you know, kind of woo him in terms of, you know, signing some stuff and all that. But immensely talented, but yeah, bad decisions. Again. We go back to value, because that's what the draft. Number one

in the draft is evaluation. Number two is valuation and figuring out where do you take a player like this. You can't take him in the first round, but you know, where do you feel comfortable with a guy with his baggage? Okay, David good segue Dan because deco suave love that name. Wants to know and we've talked about this guy how you know, a lot of questions about where he fits, effort, all that good stuff. Kim DJ realistic to think that he's there at thirty four and would you take him there?

I think it's realistic. I mean it's something where it's not just the off field with him. There's legitimate questions about how much does he love football? You know, how hard is he going to work to be the best that he could be? Because the talent and I've said this before. He's a top ten talent in this class,

just not a top ten football player. And you know Willie work at it to be the best that he possibly can be, because you watch his flashes on film and oh my goodness, you'd love to have this player in your football team. It's just not consistent. And you know, I know when it comes to like Joey Bosa, you know, I say, don't pay attention to the sac numbers. All that can be overrated. It with Kimdici, he only had seven sacks and like thirty four starts, and you know

it's the same thing. He impacted the game a lot more than what the box score says. On the move. Yeah, but at the same time, you just expected more out of him, you know, on his tape. So so harken back to what you and uh Dan we're getting into about Hackenburg. Though it is thirty four too rich to take that, I mean, you're talking about a freak athlete.

I mean, he really is a freak. I think I would rich enough personally, as long as the interviews check out, I would take a chance on him at thirty four. I think he's going to be on my board somewhere in the twenties. Um, I think someone one of those playoff teams are going to take a chance on this kid. I think think you know Denver, you know, like they did with Shane Ray last year. You know, one of these teams will take a chance. But how do you think?

What do you think? Dan? Interestingly, two months ago I predicted that Kim d would be the Cowboys pick at thirty four, and I'm actually sticking with that now just because I mean, maybe maybe the Randy Gregory suspension just changes that changes that dynamic slightly. But good point. But to me, with Kim D, if you don't look at the stats, if you don't if you don't see the off field concerns, if if all you're literally doing is watching tape, I mean, this guy's a top ten talent.

The fact he I mean he explodes off the ball and it's I guess you can't really I can't really stress that word enough, Like he literally explodes off and against reach blocks you're not gonna be able to reach ye, Yeah, he can, he can hit the gap movie all right. The think about it is, so they've focus in there on they paid a lot of money to Tyren Crawford to play a three techn That's a great point. This is a three technique player. I mean him and him and you know in him and Rankin's two of the

best three techniques in this job. I think you can kick him outside. He can play it. Yeah, I mean you know he can do whatever you want. I mean play at the right end first, I mean he could well, I can play both. He can provide you versatility to play anywhere on the defensive line because of his ability because burst off the ball. Don't you always I mean, don't we always say that Rod Marinelli is just about

waves of guys. I mean I don't sure. Also, if you if you're taking him at thirty four, I don't have the numbers in front of me, But that's not an expensive contract in the grand scheme of things. You know, I don't care if I'm paying my number two three technique. All right, let me ask you this then real quick.

I'll play Devil's advocate here, though. Would you would you rather have him him as the backup to say Crawford swing guy or not swing guy but rotational player, or have a guy that's a better one technique than Nick Hayden at thirty four, I would rather have I'm just I would rather have the ladder, Yes, I would. I think it depends on your board, you know. I mean, who do you have? Is a guy like a bill take your yeah, okay, Billings is there? Yeah, And I think it just comes down to who you think is

a better player. U. I think for me it's close on my board. I think I have both Candici and Billings closely rated. I think personally i'd go for the higher potential with Candici. You know, I'd full the dice there. But you know, I think it with these defensive tackles we talked about it, some are going to fall into that early second round and you might have a tough decision to make. He'll never say this on the record, but can't you just imagine Jason Garrett being like, yeah,

we're getting a boy Scout this year. Yeah, I want I want another Byron gem I don't want to deal with this again. I can talking about at thirty four, at four, any of the well, definitely at four, certainly at four, but even yeah, thirty four, sixty seven. I think these premium picks. Let's I want to share thing I want a guy that I don't have to worry about. There's yeah, what do you have Billings? In my scenario

when I was talking about three or a one? Not not not what he's playing, but would you take the three or would you take the one? And what you know about the Dallas Cowboys, it's actually really close to me. But I guess I'd probably need to see a bit more from Billings as a pass rusher because at the moment, I don't really think he's gonna be there on third down, whereas in kem D. Kim d is going to be there every single third down from me, and he's gonna

be rushing the passes. So I'm probably gonna take kem Dcha in this scenario, but he could change over the over the next couple of months. I need to watch them again and just kick and then kick Crawford over to the one and the way you go in the Nickels situations. Okay, if Keith wants to know if the Cowboys miss out or don't draft Jalen Ramsey at four again going back cornerbacks and safeties, that that makes sense in the thirty four range. I think people are tired

of the number four talk. We're moving on to the later rounds, right, which is good. Yeah. I think that's when you talk about maybe William Jackson from Houston, UM other corners and that I lie apple if he if he I don't think he made out of the first but if he does, I'm just saying that he'd be definitely someone to consider. I think Kendall he's not going to make it out of Kendall Fuller. From now, I'm

thinking about the course. Well, how about Okay, let's and people they hate when I say this, but what about the Rashad Robertson kid from LSU isn't too too rich? Yeah, Homer like, guy's a train wreck. I'm sorry, I'm really worried about his off field. I mean everyone I've talked to and uh, I don't know. He seems like you just he's someone you have to constantly worry about away from the facility. Very talented individual though, but train wreck

in your opinion. He's not in your opinion, but which I've been and I've talked to him, and you know, I've talked about the people about him. Um, I as as immensely talented as he is, and LSU didn't want him. I mean, I don't know. There's just there's a lot there I don't think. And it's not a Tyrone Matthew situation in my opinion. I mean, it's a lot of focus issues, commitment issues, accountability issues. It's not like this kid just kind of you know, you liked weed or

that kind of thing. There's a lot of issues there too early for exam Abean Howard not at thirty four, I don't think either. I think he's probably a third rounder. He's I don't know. I guess I see a bit of Brandon Carr in him really, just because he doesn't really have much catch up speed. Once once he lets guys guy's he's probably going to be his own corner. I don't really trust him in man coverage to me at thirty four. The guy who I actually really like

is Kendall Fuller. I don't think his film really thinks to face safety myself, but go ahead, I think my corner I do. Yeah, I'm with you. I think just watch his film from twenty fourteen, and this guy, this guy is a man man cover guy. He can put Hi Man's man on the guy. So he was hurt last year and that really did not really hurt his draft stock. But to me, he's a cornerback the double move in the Ohio State game, right, it doesn't Yeah, I mean he he had a meniscu's tear went in August.

He was trying to play through it. You know, it's it's a bad look and it'll be replayed over and over again. But his twenty fourteen stuff is what you focus on. And I agree. I saw a first round player two has a fourteen tape. So as long as the knee checks out, okay here at the combine in

the rechecks, definitely fuller someone I consider thirty four two. Okay, David, who has impressed you guys the most through these first two days of you know and on the on field stuff hasn't really started yet, But just give me some who's really if somebody's blown you away definitely or just who's kind of been impressive for y'all. A couple of

old miss guys. And we talked about Tunsil yesterday. Uh, you know, just the way he commanded the room was really impressive and then treadwell today, I thought he went went up there and he defended his decision not to run here at the combine, you know, explained how he switched training facilities just not too long ago so he didn't feel comfortable, yet still wants to run in the

low four fives. That's his goal. Uh. And I loved his answer when asked, you know, who's the tough corner, toughest corner back he faced and he said, well, I don't think there were really that many tough corners in college. And he kind of you know, went back and U said, well, okay, you know what, that Cyrus Jones is pretty good. Yeah, the Florida corner is not bad. Not Vernon Hargrave's a

younger one immediate a point to say that. And he also pointed out the Mississippi State corner will Redman as well. So at that tread Well did a nice job for himself up there. I think to all miss guys have been the guys that have stood out the mouse. The guy who I actually really liked was Jonathan Williams, the Arkansas running back. Now he was he was elected a team captain despite missing the year with a broken foot last year. And you can you can tell it when

you actually listened to him. He's really smart, plays clued up. Yeah, I mean it's film as well. You can see it on there if you look at his Alabama film from twenty fourteen. He's planning against an NFL defense there in Alabama. His offensive line isn't blocking for him, his tight ends aren't blocking for him, and he's just charging at these guys.

He's playing with no fit and he's basically carrying this offense just he's hitting Reggie Raglan straight in the trade in the mouth, and so you can sort of see that he's but you can you can tell when you actually listened to him and when you when you speak to him that this is a guy who really high character guy. Coaches are going to love this guy. If I told you that the foot won't be an issue moving forward, where would you draft Jonathan Williams second round?

I agree? I agree, he's that type of He's a day two talent. Uh Man, Yeah, you consider him in the second round. It's really just that foot that you really worried you to have him over Collins. I do. Yeah, Okay. The guy was impressed with was Jack Conklin. Yeah, from Michigan stated I felt like that he was he had the most poised up there. I thought he answered all the questions very well. He was very thoughtful. He measured his words in a good way. Though he was very complimentary.

He talked about he didn't talk about guys he'd played. He talked about a guy like Randy Gregory that he'd played a couple that shows you offensive tackle mentality. Right there, he remembers the guy who gave him the most trouble. He could have very easily said Bosa or somebody like that, and everybody would have jumped up and down. But he said, a guy that you know a couple of years ago came out. So I gave him a lot of credit.

I think that somebody is going to get a guy six six, three hundred and three hundred and uh three or eight, you know. And he did five reps today. So we'll get into that why we like that or not. But I was very oppressed by his demeanor. I think, whoever you all you have to do in Daniel, tell you if you watch there, these guys will tell you. Watch the Alabama game, Michigan State's getting their rears kicked up front, and he's the one guy that wasn't getting

his rear kicked. I think that says a lot about the type of player he could be. I'm just trying to get a big old eye roll from Dane, but I was. I thought card L. Jones had a great media session today. I really did, And like what I know, there's all kinds of things you can say about him as a player, what you think about his tape, and it's all out there for you to read. I like him more than the most people do. But he was

great up there today. Man, he's you know, He's like, I can't wait till these teams put me on the white board. You know, I know my challenge him. I'm a more he said, I'm a more cerebral quarterback than I get credit for being. He's you know, he said, yeah, people definitely think I'm a goofball because there's some things I've done in my past. But he'll get a chance. You gotta be careful, He'll yeah, he'll be carefully. What he wished for that people don't see the ninety hours

a week that I put in to do this. He had one more great SoundBite. It was, um, I don't care about getting a job. I'm trying to get a career in the NFL. He did he had I mean, he knew and granted he's working with George Whitfield out there, which that's what he does, so George. It just based on I I just thought he was great for the I mean I kind of went over there initially I was like, oh, Cardel Jones, this has potential to be a train wreck, because that's kind of the reputation that

he has. But he was he was polished and poised and and he was good up there, so in one area where I wasn't pressed with him, and he's not at Ohio State anymore, so he had a chance to really say, you know, I was the best quarterback. Uh, you know, the coaches made the wrong decision taking me out, benching me at an eleven or no record as a starter.

I mean, he had a chance to kind of not throw his coaches under the bus, but at least, you know, kind of deflect you know, the blame away from his inconsistent play and put it more on you know, someone else, just to make excuses. But he didn't. He said it was for the betterment of the team. You know, He's like, I didn't hit my goals this year, but it was for the better minute of the team, and I understood that. So he was very very mature with that you act

and taking accountability. You mentioned that he said he said the phrase I got benched. I mean he didn't play up the stuff, and I mean, so yeah, he was. He was impressive. So I hope his on field stuff matches how he was today. Okay, we thank everybody out there for all the questions that they sent us tonight. We'll have an opportunity to do this again tomorrow night with Twitter on the twenty ALB. Make sure I tweet out when we're gonna be on and make sure you

fire your questions that way. So we're going to take our last break of the night to hear from the twenty sixteen NFL combine from Radio Row here in Indianapolis. Will be right back. Geico asked which is easier playing football or saving hundreds of dollars on your car insurance.

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row here in Indianapolis. Brian broad Is, Dan Brugler, David Hellman, Dan Turner for the next uh fifteen twenty minutes or so. UH want to get into these uh? We did? We off the field, not off field. Field work will start with the offensive line running backs tomorrow. And but today we had some bench press first off thing. I want to get into something, and I know, did you have a question about bench press or something like that. No, I just wanted to bust on you, bust on me. Yeah, okay,

I mean we'll get into it. Is at the end of the show. Bust on me or is it bust I mean we'll just go Okay, you'll fit it in. Okay, cool, But I want to You know, Dan, you did a fine job for for CBS Sports, And in a preview of the combine, uh, talked about things that are good about the combine. Things they're bad scouts off the record.

Who scouts will love to talk off the record, you know all day, they will talk to you off the record all day, and then that you bring your name, bring their name up, and then it's like, I didn't say that. It's one of those things. So uh, and that's from experience. But the the bench press was one of the things that a scout particularly said he would get rid of it if he could. Yeah, why was that?

The preview that I did kind of went step by step for each drill, explaining each one, and I got one of my scout bodies could give me a quote on each drill and say kind of how he used it, how he valued that particular drill, and a few of them. You know, he loved the shuttles, he loved the three cone. The forty he said was important for wide receivers and corners, not so much for lineman quarterbacks, that kind of thing. But he had an interesting quote on the bench press,

basically said it was useless. He says, overrated. If the combine forgot to do the bench press, no one would care. And so I think there's something to that because it does it measures you know, your your weight room strength, but it doesn't measure functional strength, if functional football strength,

and so it can be a misleading number. I think what it better tells you is who you know busts his butt in the weight room, and that's kind of what the bench press number tells you, not much more than that, And so I think it you can't get too locked up in these numbers. But a few guys that did really well for themselves today. Christian Westerman from Arizona State, talented player. Yeah, yeah, very good guard. He had a good week at the Senior Bowl and UH

continued to hear thirty four reps. That's the top so far we've had this year. I think we're gonna see Andrew Billings topped out when the defensive lineman go. But for the offensive lineman, Westernman was the top guy. Connor McGovern Missouri offensive lineman was thirty three. He was next Num Bowl from Colorado at thirty two, and then Jason Spriggs from Indiana had thirty one. And it's a guy with some pretty long arms. I think doesn't always plays strong. No,

he doesn't. You could go through Jason Spriggs. Yeah, he's going to be not Lane Johnson in terms of that type of riser, but I think he's going to test similar as Lane Johnson did and really help himself throughout this process. At the Senior Bowl, we saw that, you know, the scouts voted him the top offensive lineman that week, and I think he's going to continue that momentum here and we're gonna see Spriggs kind of be involved in a lot more first round monks moving forward. I still

have a lot of questions. I know you do too, but he's going to test really well. The your thoughts though on Dave and Dan on the bench press, anything that you know stands out about what this scout says. Is it something you feel like it's used for or not? Oh, go ahead, Dan. It just seems to be no correlation between bench press and numbers in success. I mean we were just saying in the break, Zack Martin had something like twenty three twenty four, and he has more functional

strength in any offensive lineman in the NFL. And then you've got players like people like Travis Frederick as well, who I'm what he asking? It like twenty one twenty one, and he's has abenity to just drive black guys off the board is unrivaled. And then you've got there's almost like no correlation at all. So it's almost like I just don't really care at all with what these guys. Yeah, nice number, but it's something that it's one. I mean, it's one of the things that jumps out at you,

especially when the number is lower than usual. Cody white Hair this year, Charotine, And the thing I was gonna bust on you is is that your boy Taylor Decker put up like twenty Yeah, he didn't have a good day either, but again, I think Dan's totally right, is I mean you think about it, Yeah, exactly like Dane said to weight room strength. Cool, But I mean, how much do we talk about blocking and getting pass blockers?

Is about leverage and lower body strength and stuff like that, which who cares how much you can bench press when it comes to that. If if Aaron Donald can get underneath you or wiggle out from under you, it doesn't really matter. And the same thing with Zach Martin. If you can drive people, it doesn't really matter what's going on up here. So yeah, that doesn't surprise me. And honestly, you could probably find a scout in this building who

will tell you that, damn near every drill out there's overrated. Yeah, I think it is. I mean the way we talk about, you know, fans in general. You know a lot of times a guy will run a fast forwardy and you know, we think it moves them up when in reality it doesn't. I think it is a fair statement that on the outside, a lot of people overrate the combine a lot of

the drills. Now you can you know a lot of these drills, you know, Ceo Bracado always told me, Yeah, those don't that don't appreciate the combine or you know, the value. They just don't understand how to use the numbers, right. And there is something to that, because there is value in a lot of these numbers depending on the position and all that. So you know, there is an overrated aspect to it from the outside looking in. But each one of these numbers provides some kind of quantitative data

that these scouts will use. Yeah, and let me just uh if I could run through the top five bench pressers of all time here at the combine, you tell me what kind of football players they were? Ready? Oh boy? Yeah, Justice in nineteen ninety nine, in that combine, young man named Justin's Justin Justin Earnest. You are not a good reader. Justin. I was trying to say Justin Earnest. It's just Justin.

It's like a really normal name, Justin. Anyway, Yeah, you're you're teetering on now no longer being on the combine thing just combines in the wings. Yeah, We've we've got guys who will do a much better job than you. Finish the list. Finish the list, and uh in nineteen ninety nine had did fifty one. Oh my god, Okay, what kind of player was he? I've never take Okay,

Stephen Paia, he still in the league. Yeah, forty nine rest in two thousand and eleven, defensive tackle, Yeah yeah, Leif Larsen in two thousand, Mike Kudla, Mitch Purdis, pos Petris forty five times. Yeah, okay, Brodrick Bunkley two thousand and six, Bus, Jeff Owens, and Don Terry Poe. Now there's a there's a Terry pose an example of a where his all of his combined drills really translated. Well, he had a terrific ten yards split. All of his

drills are really impressive. And number five Scott Young, I could read that name, Dave Scott Young in two thousand and five. He was drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles in the fifth round of that two thousand and five draft, and he had he bench pressed uh forty three times? Well, and when did do you happen to know? When? Did? When did Justin Ernest go? Like? When was he picked?

Let's see when he was picked? Because I mean, if a guy has a great bench press and he wounds up winds up being a fifth round he was never drafted, he was he was never dry. It's not like people are using these as excuses to draft guys higher than they should. Yeah, he was never drafted and never played in the NFL. Wow, but damn he felt happy about that bench press numbers because of that. I'll tell you what.

We probably we probably at nineteen ninety nine, we probably took a look at him in your on the board. We probably we had him on the board and we probably were looking at drafting him at that point in time, but didn't do that. Oh man. So anyway though, Um, that's outstanding. Yeah it is. But the cool I can understand that. I can understand where you're a long time scout.

You've you've been in those those rooms. I mean, did bench press ever come up as a as a qualifier or you know a you know, two scouts are debating a guy. Did bench press that number come up as a reason why you know, this guy should be drafted over another? No, it really didn't it. You know, we were always you know, it was it was like if a guy had a low bench press number, we made it a point to go to the school and try

and get him to do it better. Yeah, just to get me even if it was twelve and just to get him to fifteen and then we just we just it wasn't like we were trying to get him to go from twelve to twenty five. We were trying to

just get at least three more. And that in my limited experience covering the draft cycle, it's like it's a rough draft anyway, because all these guys are going to go back to their pro day and now they've got a disappointing number, yeah, and they can focus on whatever it was that was disappointing, whether it's forty, whether it's the bench press, whatever. And I almost always it's better when they do their approach. Let me ask you this, would you rather see them get rid of the bench

press or wonderlick testing? I think both are um kind of looked at as not very useful. I think with the Wonderlick, the quarterbacks you care about, I guess, you know, just curious see what kind of they score. Um, that is it? That is like that is a badge of dishonor that some of those poor kids wear. Yeah, and it is it is some of them. And that's the first thing that someone on Twitter will fire at me

about Mo claiborne, that he's a dumb kid. And that's and let me tell you what the and and just real quick, I always felt like that the Wonderlick score was unfair to kids because some kids it was always about the ability to read, you know, like here, I am, I can't read these kids names sometimes, and you know it's just because you know, it wasn't just sixteen and wasn't. But you know, but I'm just telling you that some days you don't. I mean, you can't. You just don't

see words right. And and it's us. It's twelve minutes and they ask you and it's questions, and I challenge you day the Wonder test absolutely, I mean you talk about I mean you're going from here to here to here. You got twelve minutes here and got twenty minutes with the media. You're doing this, you're doing that, and then you got to sit down and and I mean, I think if you're a reasonably intelligent person, you should still probably be able to do pretty well. But it's not

conducive to that. It's it's about reading, and some kids don't have the advantage over others. And that you say what you want about the education system, that that's a fault it's not good. But but but but the problem that I always had with the Wonderlick test is that's something that gets leaked, okay, and that's I was going, that gets leaked, and then all of a sudden, these kids have to deal with that. I would do away with the Wonderlick because the bench press is there for

everybody to see. They post the numbers on the NFL's official website, they can choose. With the Wonderlick always gets leaked. You never usually can't even trust whether that leaked number is accurate. I mean, half the guys shout out their score leaked will come out and tell you that's not true anyway. So then it's he s he said, she said, whatever. Um, I've got the two thousand and three Wonderlok scores in

front of me. Tony Romo led the way thirty seven. Nice. Uh, look at Carson Palmer twenty six, m Kyle Bowler twenty seven, Wels Grossman twenty nine, and yeah's Grossman. For quarterbacks, you want at least twenty five, and so all those guys hit that mark. But no, you're right, it is. It's unfortunate for some of these kids because it does get out when it really shouldn't. Um, But I don't know, it's some some teams will fight for it. Some Scouts will fight for it just as a as a way

to measure. Uh, you know, it's no different than another you know, the bench for us, where it's just another number they can use. But I think there's better ways they could be doing things. Yeah, I think there's a lot in and I and I'm gonna be real honest about there's there's a lot of drills when I first started coming here in nineteen ninety two, there's still a lot of those same drills that they're doing. And they need to if they're gonna do if they're gonna you know,

they need to. They need ted Thompson, who really is on the committee for the Scouts. Go to the GMS, go to Teddy and they talk to him about, hey, we need to try and change us up. And Teddy has been a hard line on a lot of stuff about hey, you know, because what happens is as Scouts, what do you do you measure numbers? You try and can you try and compare numbers that were and now that we you know, we this, I don't know, I mean how long we've been in this facility here Now

I can't even remember the soil. Yeah, so I don't know that actually this this stadium, Yeah yeah, way before, That's what I'm saying. So the RCIA Dome turf where they ran was different. So now scouts were all freaking out about okay, we're going from one field condition to another type of fueld condition and now you know, and that's and that was That's something that that that scouts,

especially the older scouts, really try and protect. They try, they try and protect these shuttle numbers and these forty numbers and all these numbers. That's a conversation that probably deserves a lot more time. But I mean, as analytics, because I'm a bigger part of you. In the next ten to fifteen years, I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see some drastically different ways of evaluating. Yeah, there are a lot of studies out there that teams

are doing about what correlates what doesn't. And we're going to see some changes. The forty or dash is not going away. Yeah, We're not going to see these overhaul changes, but there will be tweaks, there will be some improvements I think a few things that are maybe a little more football related. We're going to see some changes, just not an overhaul Danny tomorrow, which offensive lineman into that here, I'm getting back to this, and we got a couple

more minutes. Just one guy you're looking for tomorrow, one or two guys that you're looking for, offensive lineman, running back, somebody like that on the on the field drills that we can watch. Well, I was pretty high on named Jack Conklin before we came here, and so far he's passed every test with flying colors. So and I just think tomorrow he's going to do exactly the same. Now maybe now, maybe he'll fail him and then I'll have

to reevaluate something. But I'm just looking to him to basically confirm what I already know about and that he's he's early athletic, but sometimes slow footed as a player. So it would be nice to see him maybe just do some show himself to be a bit to show some quickness tomorrow, maybe the three cone drill or the short shuttle. I'm sure he'll run a fast forty time. It wouldn't surprise me if he finished in the top five of that. So yeah, I'm especially looking at Jack Conklin.

And then on the running back side, I'm intrigued by some of these mid round guys who can potentially break away from the pack a little bit, so like Kelvin Taylor is one of them. For me. CJ. Procie is another. And I was hoping for training Adam that hope as he's injured. So yeah, David, I'm the king of the eye rollers when it comes to the Derrick Henry hype train. So I'm very interested to see. He said he's going to do everything, So I want to see what he

can put up. I mean maybe, I mean if he can and again, I mean you don't want these numbers to determine draft status, but I mean, if he can put up some surprisingly good numbers, maybe there's some some thought to be had about him in the top forty or so. Dan, I mentioned Jason Spriggs earlier. I think he's gonna do really well. Larrmy tunsel is gonna do every drill and so I want to see how quick he is, that body control all that. I want to

see that on display, see how he does. Then for the running backs, you know, a tip for everyone listening, You know you know what you've seen these guys on film. Take a guess, you know, take each guy, the guys you feel comfortable with that you've seen enough of. Guess what they're forty yard dashes. If you're off by more than you know, tens of a second, then go back and figure out maybe would you miss? Because that's what

scouts are doing. They have a number in mind for each player, and if say Derrick Henry, if he runs a four seven or whatever, then okay, time to go back and figure out what do we miss? He looked, Sure, looks fast, faster than that on film. So just a way to cross check and figure out, you know, would you miss or did you get the guy right? My guy is five eleven seven on the measurements, he's two hundred and twenty five pounds. He carries the ball at

the Ohio State University. I'm very interested. Ezekie Elliott said he's gonna run in the four fours here, and I'm very interested to see if he can do that. He plays that way, you know, I there's there's a lot of food. We keep talking about him, and people think he's a top ten type of a player. I have a feeling tomorrow he's gonna put on a show too, And yeah, exactly so he's used to know you. He might make it very hard for somebody in this top

eight maybe to not take him. What if he makes it hard for somebody at number four, that's what that's what I'm hoping. That is why I'm hoping that it's not gonna happen. But anyway, five eleven, seven on the high two twenty five, you're gonna watch a big man come blowing down there and run for you tomorrow. So hey, thanks you guys for appreciate thank you for being on for us at the draft show today. We'll be back tomorrow nights at We'll be back at uh six o'clock Eastern.

We'll have some conversations about how these workouts went with the offensive lineman and then also then the running backsive line and linebackers will be here. We'll talk to them. It's a lot, I'm sure, Jack Killen Smith a lot of talking, a lot to be talking. We might hear some medical information too about Jalen Smith as well. So for my my scouting buddies for Dan Turner, David Hellman, Danburg, Bryan, Bryan Browson executive producer Kent Garrison, Thank you very much

for join us. We'll see you tomorrow night. From Indianapolis,