Draft Show: Let's Talk About The Combine

cloudy Thursday at the Star in Frisco. We're live from inside the Star at the s WBC Mortgage Studio. Sixty three days until the NFL Draft in a week until drills at Lucas Oil Stadium. The NFL Combine is right around the corner, but the Draft Show continues. Jeff Cavanaugh alongside Kevin Turner and David Hellman. Is bad. Yeah, welcome back, buddy, Thanks man. I'm glad to have you back. Yeah. I got some draft beers in New Orleans last week? Like that?

Does that count as the drift like draft coverage? Yes? I think it would, and that I appreciate that because I was not watching tape last week. I have to admit. You don't have to apologize. It got to be plenty of time left for you to Yeah, I got to catch up on anything that you might have missed. But I'm just glad that the four of us could come back and combine our brains together. That was rough. He told me he was going to do that, and still I still wasn't ready for it. Well, then you've got

Jeff Cavanaugh on the corner, all dappered up today. Look at that. Got to tell you, I'm surprised you guys don't realize. I've always been a big suit guy. Yeah, I'd love to wear the suits pretty much to it every day, except when I come up here. I thought today and where I do what I normally do, which is wear suits. You wear your hats and Miller light like work shirts. Picture every day. Yeah, work had some changes made. Gotta update the photos, okay, Yeah, I had

to dapper up a little bit for the photos. But the time for a haircut though, so sloppy. That's okay. At least you don't have the hat on. You could have put the hat on. I got some product in the bag. I fix that up. Yeah, slick that stuff back a little bit. Well, no, what you do now? They got new product out where it doesn't slick it, it'll just kind of hold it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you

think this, You think this happens naturally. I thought that was old school gel Oh no, this is like paste baby, Okay, Yeah, I didn't realize you guys spent so much time on your hair styling cream. Yeah, styling. You would think we would look better if we did, but we don't. It's fine. Then there's Katie and I just wear a hat. Yeah, throw on the mean green hat. Yeah. Supporting the Texas Rangers in North Texas at the same time, absolutely, okay,

nothing wrong with that. But just about four days until team personnel show up in Indianapolis for the twenty twenty NFL Combine and of course, combining our efforts. As the words of Kevin Turner, we're going to go through the NFL Combine from a general term. At the beginning of the show, we're going to go through kind of what

exactly is important about the NFL scouting combine. We got Twitter on the twenty coming up in the next segment, and then in the final segment, we'll look through some of the specific players and teams that are going to be looking for certain things in the combine, but kind of the start things off here today, guys wanted to kind of talk about in terms of coaches, scouts, teams, all the personnel that are going to show up on Sunday to get this thing started. What is the highest

value of the NFL Combine. Take a page right out of Day in Bruckler's playbook and let you know that. It's the medicals. Yeah. Absolutely, and that's you know, it's very obvious. This is going to be a very interesting departure for the NFL Combine this year, the thanks that the NFL is going to to monetize it basically, I mean it's it's true. Drills are moving to primetime, interviews are moving to the morning afternoon. They're doing that in

a bid to increase TV ratings. The reason I bring this up in the first place is that I think the NFL is desperate to get the combine out of Indianapolis. But NFL clubs love having it there because it is a centrally located city with three or four hospital facilities right there downtown. It's very easy to bust three hundred players around and get cat scans, MRI's, you know, medical, what's the word. I'm looking for physicals. Thank you, David,

You're welcome. It's just super it's super efficient. And that's one of the biggest reasons why this happens in Indianapolis is because it's all right there. It's all easy to get to and they've been doing it since the late eighties, so they know what they're doing. Something shouldn't change, like the sexy events, the super Bowl, the Draft. Yeah, I put them in the big cities. Yeah, right here. This is a little dirty work. We're getting serious about the

Combine in the draft. Put in Indianapolis and keep it there. That is the great tug of war though, is like that is you just spoke for football people everywhere, scouts and evaluators and the moneymakers see things differently. That's why drills are happening at night. Now. I'm fascinated to see. I don't know how much longer the contract runs there, but I'm very curious to see if it stays in

Indianapolis long term. We'll move to Combine to Chicago, and good luck getting from the North Side all the way to the South Side to get to go get your players who are getting checked up. But for mine, I mean becomes a beating. Jevon, Jevon Kenlon, Jeff Skuy, A million other guys are going to go through there. Guys that we don't even know of with medical issues are

going to crop up. I remember it was I think it was two years ago that Maurice Hurst was a favorite to be the Cowboys pick in the first round at nineteen, had an irregular heartbeat and fell to the fifth round. Reggie Raglan too, Remember the Alabama line there, there's an Alabama guy with medical issues. Ever be one guy it's got a heart problem that will happen, you'll

find it. It's you know, And that's the that's kind of the scary thing about evaluating too, Like, Okay, I don't try not to let the combine change too much, and then there will be things that happen medically that make you okay, well, I can't have this guy up here on my board anymore. And then there's other elements of the combine as well that makes you go okay,

well and well, it's hard to know. Like for us because we're not going to be interviewing the players, but for the teams they will be changing their board based on all kinds of little things that happen in Indianapolis that might not even be on the field. Yeah, I mean there's plenty to look at when it comes to the medicals. You'd even talk about interviews. I know a lot of teams look at these interviews as their first contact with some of these guys and really trying to

find out exactly what was the laugh there for. Well, no, I just think, like when I think about the interviews, I think about how insane it is. And they've changed it to to eight eighteen minute interviews now instead of fifteen minute interviews I think. But they also cut the number that you get from sixty to forty five. So I'm gonna get fewer players in and I'm gonna use those three minutes on these guys that I'm getting targeted. What can you know about a person in three minutes? Well,

you know, I mean, no idea. You can get him into a staring contest like that was the big thing that came out of last year's combine, right, figure out if they got a tongue ring. Okay, Yeah, I think that's gonna stop you from drafting the guy didn't Kamara have a thing at the combine where somebody asked him about something a piece of jewelry and nose ring or something and they're like, can you take that out or that doesn't look professional, and he was like, don't draft me.

It's an I mean, it's an annual thing though, Darius Guice, you know what the stuff? You know, team's asking him if he was the one that he said that, they asked if he was gay. I believe, like just all kinds of bizarre stuff comes out of these these interviews. Last Jeffrey single, Yes I am coaching. You can't. I gotta tell you you're looking good today, comfortable. That's a you problem. Don't draft me, Fine, don't. I'll go to

your division and beat you. Like yeah, last year, I think the favorite one because there's no there was no really track record on and there's no rap I guess is what I would say, there's no rap sheet, Well, I'm going Jakai polite, polite, polite, the Florida Edge Rusher, and then you here comes up. Well, some teams just weren't just really weren't vibing with him. They didn't really like the way he carried himself and I'm like, can

you rush the passer? And then it turns out he does fall all the way to day three and maybe some of those things were warranted. Oh god, And remember I mean the combine too, and had a terrible, terrible,

terrible combine. Yeah. How many how many years ago did Ruben Foster like freak out during the medical evaluation, which like it's like three years ago if you think, if you think about it, I mean, you know you but you're waiting around all day to go through this stuff like that's I don't think people quite understand, like we only see these players for the hour that they're on

the field running drills. The rest of the time, you're just being ushered from interviews to medicals, you're waiting in line to get in the MRI all that type of stuff. And yeah, Ruben Foster didn't handle it very well. So there's a lot of interesting stuff that can be gleaned from this. However, Mundane, you might think it might be this is a strange one, but because he went in

the first round. But do you think the Vikings had hardcore discussions with Laquon Treadwell when they're meeting with him at the Combine about picking up route concepts and having to learn a way different offense than he was running at Mississippi, where he only ran three routes. Do you think those conversations happened because they would have been tipped off to man, Maybe this is a bit of a red flag. And I know they make them go do

boardwork sometimes and things like that. Like I just I just don't know, Like I don't know how much you can find out about a person in fifteen minutes. I think come into decisions like this. I think you brought treadwell up on purpose just to make me feel bad, not I would make everyone feel Yeah, yeah, everybody thought it was good. We all screwed that one up. Yeah, that was one of those kind of sure fire things

and it wasn't as sure fire as we thought. But kind of going back to what Dave said talking about the entirety of the week, I've got the schedule out here. This is the general player schedule. Talk to Bonham and it starts Sunday where the tight ends, quarterbacks, and wide receivers arrive in Indy. Then you've got registration, orientation, interviews, measurements, pre exam at the hospital interviews, then the next day media what a medical exams, position, coach interview, psychological testing.

Then you've got the NFLPA meeting, interviews, bench press, psychological testing for a second straight day limited testing and interviews, and on field workout and then you'd leave. I would show up five days. I think I'd show up on day four or whenever we get on the field, and they'd be like, hey, you know you're supposed to be here for all these other things, and I'd be like, yeah, and if that hurts my draft stock, that sucks. So but man, that sounded terrible. That's a lot of stuff.

How long do we get to a point when I mean you look at right now in terms of training camps and OTAs and things like that, people are skipping for contract reasons. How long until we see some of these high end college guys skipping combine exams and workouts and things like that. If this keeps going with you know, moving the drills tonight and like making it a television event and it becomes more profitable and starts getting legitimate

TV ratings, I don't think that's far behind. Yeah, especially and yeah, to Kat's point, how much can you really learn about a guy in fifteen and eighteen minutes, not a lot. That's why this is just one or the first step in the process. That's why if you really like any of these guys, you're going to bring them to your facility and spend two days with them. And now a lot of these guys not all of them, but a lot of these guys have someone training them

on what to say in almost every situation. Absolutely so is that really getting to know someone? Someone who's telling you something just so they can make a little more money. That's what we're talking about here. We're talking about the difference in back of the first round money compared to third round money, you know, or how far a guy could slide. You gotta go through all that stuff. You don't show up to that stuff. Teams are gonna trust you,

they're gonna think something's up. Of course, there's way more that goes into it than we could even talk about. But like, and there's so much of we probably don't even know, you know. But I'm always like, I always think it's funny that I remember the year I've only

covered one combine. I'll be honest, but I remember Jeff was at a podium and he was talking to Jared Goff and that was the story of the day, was the measurement of Jared Goff's hands and about and you know what, it might still matter given how he's played in cold weather. But I just think it's amazing how much little bit of freak out happens when we're talking

about a quarter of an inch. I want to get into that in the third segment though, because yeah, I remember that too, and it's silly, but like it's kind of some of this silly stuff hasn't been to it too, which is what makes this so fascinating. I just think we're reaching a breaking point at some point soon with the Combine in terms of like is it a money

making event? Is an evaluators event? Actually, I read this morning the Rams and the Broncos aren't sending their staffs to the combine, like they're sending their you know, their upper echelon people, but like everybody else is staying behind because they're like, we can get everything that we need to get out of this from Afar. I think every team should do that. Why I don't want the coaches there because I don't want to coaches drafting the players.

I would much rather my scouts be the ones that are doing. It's really weird to me in the NFL how many teams empower a coach to have a big voice in a draft room. Because if you've hired people who you think are capable, that are in your scouting department and they spend literally years working on each player. We got this. We can rank these guys. We're okay, we'll pick the right guys, and then you coach them. I don't want the offensive coordinator in the defensive coordinator.

They're falling in love with the prospect and like, hey, where you guys got him on a third round? All right, well we're gonna take him in the early second. Okay, coach, appreciate you don't worry about my work, no problem. And guess who gets fired if he can't play? Not you, coach, I do. Yeah, that's the blurry lines of job description is all that is? How what are you here to do? Head coach? Go win games? Well, what's the best way to win games? Well? What is his job? Is? To

make the offense better? Here to call plays? Is he here too? You know there's so many things that go into that likes That's where it becomes very interesting because I'm sure there are some coaches you are very good at evaluating players, but you know, I think in general, and we've seen this happen here where we feel pretty

good about previous drafts. Maybe not immediate, like looking at last year hasn't really paid off yet, but they didn't have a pick to the late second round, but you know it, feel pretty good about the track record they've put in building this roster of the last five, six, seven years. And a lot of that's because you get the vibe that for the most part, they were letting

the scouts do their work. Now, you still have these examples of going, man, I think Rod Marinelli got his guy here, or I think Kellen Moore got to pick Tony Pollard here. You know whether that was true or not. You still have those examples of things happening. But for the most part, you feel like Will mcclay's kind of let the scouts do the work and they go do

the right thing. Yeah, well, and kind of sticking with the entire draft process, I mean, the drills at the combine, even though that is the primetime television, that's what all the fans want to watch. It's just small piece of the entire draft process. You got the Senior Bowl to kind of start it off, combine measurements, medicals, etc. Then you go into the drills and then after that, then you've got pro days and everything else where. You see even more drills even before you get to the Dallas

Days and the extra workouts that these teams have. But that brings me to the question of how relevant are the drills at the combine? How much do scouts kind of paying onto this, Because I was talking to somebody in the scouting world just a couple days ago and he said, in his opinion of it was it's for show. It is for show. You've got the forty yard dash, the bench press where they put two twenty five on the bar, and then you count the reps from their

vertical jump, broad jump, three cone drills, shuttle run. There's so many different drills here, But how relevant are they? I think they're relevant. It's just a matter of what you're using for which prospect. And I think that's that's why we're seeing changes because I think a lot of people realize that a lot of it's outdated. The bench press is pointless. Yeah, there is no point in the bench press, which is why it won't make it long.

Maybe if you wanted to do something in a weight room that truly measured power in some way, yeah, what would you do? Not bench press power? Clean? Hand clean? I don't know. I'm not sure exactly, but like the bench press, who cares. I don't. Even as an offensive lineman, I don't block just by punching you. It's there's so

much more that goes into it. But just for example, when we get these guys whose job it is to rush the passer, I want to know their ten yards split, when they run the forty, I want to know their three cone. And now I want to know their hoop time since there's a new drill where we're going to run a figure eight, Because yes, I want to know if you're flexible in your ankles. I want to know if you can turn the corner. And your tape will give me a really good idea of that, but I

want to verify that with your athletic testing. And if you do that, then hey, check check, check, and now you go in the top ten. Like for different positions, there are different things that to me matter, but there are also a lot of things that they're doing that couldn't care less. It's very funny. Yeah, like the forty everybody knows it's overblown, you know, things like the vertical

and the broad like they they demonstrate athletic ability. But I think we would all agree it's not necessarily that important, assuming you hit a certain threshold. But then, like you know, if you listen to this show, there's a pretty good chance that you're active on Twitter or other social mediums about the draft, and like people hang on those three

cone times though, yeah, like you are. You want to see the three cone times for pass rushers, shuttle times, anything that change that demonstrates your bend or your change of direction is like a big freaking deal, and it will be this year. I think it should be because if you're a if you're a pass rusher and you want to consider a guy great prospect, then I think there are pass rush tools that you almost have to possess,

and one of those is I can win outside. So I want to know how quickly can you get off the ball, and I can measure that. I want to know how quickly can you flatten the corner to the quarterback, and I can measure that, so I do think those ones matter. And then there's other even other positions where almost nothing matters. For running back, I couldn't care less about a single drill you do. I'll watch you play, and I'm doing better job of evaluating you than this.

I would like it if you could get under four to seven in the forty yard dash. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, I'm just saying, yeah, I don't want you to run like me. Yeah, but I mean I should be able to tell on tape. Yeah. And there's just like you said, there's specific drills that kind of correlate with specific positions. And I threw together a list of these kind of as a cheat sheet for those who may not know the NFL combine. There's a lot of information on a

graphic for those of you watching at home. Now, feel free to disagree with me here. These are just my opinion on what counts in terms of combined cheat sheets. I have the quarterbacks as the interviews the most important part of the weekend, the running backs, three cone drill, wide receivers, vertical jump in forty yard dash just to see speed and burst in. Then the ten yard intervals.

I've got the tight ends at vertical jump, offensive line broad jump, and forty yard dash, the defensive line broad jump as well, along with the bench which I know you just said bench doesn't count, so I feel like you're going to disagree there. Ed Rusher's three cone drill, shuttle run for the linebackers, position drills for cornerbacks, and then safety's also position drills and then the shuttle run

there as well. I know a position that I found myself over the years kind of watching the time on a little bit is tight end a little bit, because I do want to know what's the difference is is Hunter Bryant really going to be that much faster than Cole commit? You know, does that affect how you think of things a little bit? So that's where I kind of look at the forties or more it tight ends than it is the wide receivers, and like the Henry Ruggs is going to be sexy and Jalen rag or

those guys are gonna run. You know, yeah, really, well what everyone's watching, that's what That's what the prime time stuff is for, right, But like the tight ends, that kind of I do like watching those and some of those corners too. You have some corners where you kind of look at their time and go, Okay, I don't know if he can run that well. I don't know

if if he plays that fast. But I think all this is just a hodgepodge into like we're talking about the three cone drill a little bit, it's all about expectations of the player as well. Well if you've studied some of the player. I'm not necessarily expecting aj Epinessa from Iowa to have the best three cone drill. That's what I do, who he is, But what if he does,

That's what changes things. So like that, those are the things that kind of it's used this as just a little bit of evidence to add to the complete courtroom case of what this player. It's just a supplemental informational graph is kind of what it is as a whole. And that's kind of why I wanted to talk about the relevance of these drills and where exactly those will come out. And we'll talk about some of that relevance later on with specific players and who needs to perform where.

But when we come back, we've got more Twitter on the twenty we'll answer your questions. Use the hashtag Twitter on the twenty and twite us at the Draft show. We'll be back in a moment. Your new apartment's big, such a great deal. That's okay, just okay. What's not right above the subway? Well, I bet you don't even notice it after that's my neighbor. Ange the deal. That's just okay, It's not okay. Get a great deal with

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of their elevation tumblers at auterbox dot com. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft show that we're up on the big board at the Tostito's Plaza outside the Ford Center here at the Star in Frisco. It's a photoshopper. Are we really on the big we're out there, it's I mean, nobody's out there because the weather's not great. But that's the only reason we were allowed to be

up there. I guess. Yeh. Super cold out there. Yeah, it's awesome, not great, not great, especially after what was just a fantastic weekend and then now it's gone back to being cold. But luckily most of the combine is indoors. Yes, I don't have to worry about that. A whole lot snow in the forecast for us next week, buddy, really right? Yeah? Great's the worst. Oh, don't say that that's the worst. Indy is a nice town. It's a nice town with

negative thirty degree wind chills during the combine. Okay, the first time I was that was going to be interesting, I took a hoodie and I thought that would be Okay. That's don't do that. I gotta go jaf. No. You need to get things that are say on it, like cold weather Arctic gear. What year was that? What year was that? I knowing it? It was twenty it was twenty fourteen. The internet existed. That's on you just google. No, but my mom glad he's saying something right now. Because

I packed a hoodie a couple of shirts. I couldn't compute it. You already packed. Yeah, I've got to go to Austin this week. I leave after the show to me cold wear a hood Okay, that's what cold me. Bring layers I hadn't. I wasn't familiar. Layers aren't enough. Bring up a real like a legit sky jacket park. Okay, I got real. I got one of those. I think I'll be okay. I took an uber. My hotel was at the stadium. It was across one road and I called an uber in the morning and they pulled up

and said, where are you going? I said, to the stadium. They said, you're there. I said, the entrances on the other side. You're a coward and I'm not walking. You're a coward. That's what I did. Indies a fine city, and I lubbery noodles a great place. I won't hear any slander against it. It's a great place. It is, all right. I'm excited about that. But I'm also excited about getting into some Twitter on the twenty Twitter on the Twitter, got it that time you have arrived. I've

done like three or four those in a row. I'm pretty happy about it. Let's go to the first question. This one comes from Daniel, and Daniel asked if the first round goes as perfect as possible and Jordan's Love was looking at you in the second round. Am I the only one who would take him at fifty one if I were the Dallas Cowboys. Guess if you get a quarterback who's gonna go in the top twenty at fifty one? Yeah, I'll take him. In what world is Jordan Love gonna be there at fifty one? But Jake

From No. Fifty one? Ye? Can we talk like if he's there on day three? We can talk? Oh see, I think he's gonna go before fifty one. No, I think I think From Or I think From will go before fifty one. Jake From being out of Georgia, of course, I think Jake From's catching a lot of hate. Jake From's catching a little too much hate. I don't think you're crazy for thinking that he because quarterbacks are always overvalued.

But I would not draft him at fifty one. Okay, just for the sake of Jordan's Love quarterback out of Utah State, exactly. I know, like you said, you're sold that he's gonna go time twenty Jeff uh go in the first round and top I would yeah, I would make an even money wager that he goes top two. So were there four quarterbacks first round eligible? Oh? I

think there's three quarterbacks going in the top six. Yes, because you'll have Burrow two out of Alabama, and then you've got because look at the team's picking there, Cincinnati needs a quarterback. Ye, Detroit might want a quarterback. If the Stafford rumors are true, he once a quarterback, Chargers one a quarterback. There's four in the top six. I don't think those rumors are true because like the Lions can't get rid of Stafford without just destroying their cap.

But you might because if the rumor were true, then it would signify to me that they're going to tank. And then what do I care if I take a thirty two million dollar capit I'm tanking. But they also said, like we're keeping Patricia and the GM, but they have to perform next year, and so tanking is the opposite of that. To a time, okay, I mean, hey, to a time, okay to answer the question, Yeah, what was a question? I can't tell you honestly, because I'm kind

of following. Look, I was taught by Brian broad Us, and when the Cowboys don't really need a quarterback, I kind of sit around and go, well, we assume our free agent quarterback. The quarterbacks until the end, because honestly, it is just so hard to watch a lot of these bad quarterbacks at the end of it. Yeah, so I do quarterbacks at the end, So I'm gonna be I've just seen a couple things from Jordan Love, so until I know more, I can't even give you a

proper answer on this. What did you think about Jordan Love at the Senior Bowl? I think Jordan Love is a really good player, and like he looked good at the Senior Bowl. I've you know, I watched him play LSU just because they played this year, and he was good. He's like, he is a talented guy. And it's the classic case of like, you know, if he was on a better team, how much better would he? Law school guy?

Small schools competition? And the thing I've learned is like if NFL teams think you have talent, they're gonna draft you high, Like that's just what I mean. Literally, it sounds crazy to say this now, but we started out the draft show in twenty seventeen, Like you think Pat Mahomes is a first round pick? Like his tapes so crazy, Like how do you even get a read on this guy? Goes top ten best player in the league. Yeah, which obviously I'm not, and that's going to happen with Jordan Love.

But like, if you play quarterback and NFL evaluators think you have the talent to start in the NFL, they're in draft, you're high. Nobody thought Daniel Jones was a top ten pick until the Giants and was there. Yeah. Absolutely, Well we're talking about like Washington. We're talking about Oh if you're if you're Washington, you can't trade out of

their Chase Young's an elite prospect. Well, if Jordan Love turns out to be a capable NFL quarterback, he's infinitely more important than Chase Young, even if Chase Young goes to the Hall of Fame. Absolutely, because that's the name of the game. The quarterback has a massive impact on the outcome of a game and no other individual player does. So, Yeah, Jordan Love, if somebody thinks he can be a starting quarterback.

He should go in the first round, and I think he will, and I think, you know, I think from you know, wouldn't shock me if he goes as high as you say you will. The thing for me is we all agree, like by the time April twenty third rolls around, we think Dak Prescott will be signed sure for the purpose or act or he'll be tag tag either way, Like he's here, he's here, He's the guy you're committing to. How can you afford to spend a top basically a top fifty pick on a guy that

you are hoping won't play. I mean they're because you're grooming him during Dak's year on the tag and then you're gonna let Dak go. Yeah, okay, and and that would be the thing. And Jeff smile and kind of grin here, that would be the thing. Okay. I can't tell if it's tongue in cheek or if you're legitimately excited about it. Oh no, I would not be excited about well. I mean I'm a team builder at heart, so i'd be interested in it. I'll say this, if you want to do that with Jordan Love. I'm at

least intrigued. If you're trying to do that with Jake From, I'm so out, Like you're trying to find somebody to keep this thing on the track. Dave, I don't need superstars, just a game man. Yes you do. That's literally the conversation we're having right now. It's like, well, Duck's pretty good, but he's not a superstar. Like, if you're moving on from Dak, it better be for a clear upgrade. Jake From's definitely not that I doubt Jordan Love is either

pretty good cheap works out. We're kind of talking about some of the scenarios with the E. J Wilson brings us our next question, who were some likely teams willing to trade up to seventeen if the Cowboys want to move down a couple of spots, and what players would still need to be on the board for this to happen. New Orleans, New England, Jordan Love, Jordan Love is New Orleans and New England are at twenty three and twenty four.

You get Jordan Love to make it to seventeen, one of them comes up for Jordan Love, you move back, take a dB and you pick up a second or third round pick. I will say this though, and I'm one hundred percent on board with you, and like quarterbacks drive trades a lot of the time, but that's not always the case. Like we talked about this a few shows ago, like the Saints did a crazy trade for Marcus Davenport a few years ago. I think it's either a quarterback or the last of what some team views

as an elite prospect. So for me, I'm sitting here thinking of offensive tackles because we've thought, you know, we've talked there's Thomas. There's five or six of them that can probably plug and play, and if a team that needs one is down to their last guy. Yeah, let's say I'm looking at the list right now. Let's say, like, you know, Willis is gonna go Jedrick Willis out of Alabama's gonna go early. I said I'd get better at

saying school names. So there you go, Andrew Thomas out of Georgia, UM, Tristan Worth's out of Iowa, McKay Beckton out of Louisville. I know there's one more. I think probably think Jos out of Houston. There could be six ots Man and yeah, I think you could have put him up there just as well as Jouston Jackson. Aston Jackson, I think you could put him up there just as much as Josh Jones. So yeah, six or seven possibly worthy. You know, offensive tackles. We've seen teams though reach over

the last few years. Two names that come to mind is the forty nine Ers taking Garnett from Stanford a few years ago that this. We've seen the Seahawk panic and taking offensive lineman you know late and you go, or someone taking a guard. I remember the lines taking lake in Tomlinson a little earlier than I think people

thought they would offensive Guarden. I don't know if there's those interior alignment prospects are there, but yeah, maybe a team does get a little nervous about your interior offensive line and Galic Cushionberry or Caesar Ruiz or you know, one of those guys ends up going late in the first round, so and go for it. No, just you know, I'm looking like looking at team needs. I mean, you know the Patriots, which they're in that you know, Jeff

just mentioned them. Another team that did, the Miami Dolphins traded Laramie Tunsel last year. They have a pick behind the Cowboys, assuming they don't trade it away to get somebody two picks by the Cowboys. Yeah, number twenty six as well. If it's not a quarterback, then I'm looking at elite prospects who are about to go off the board. Offensive tackle makes a lot of sense because there's so many of the Eagles or Bills, or a corner you

were talking about. You were talking about the Patriots in the Saints, but the Bills have twenty two just ahead of both of those teams. However, there are two needs right now are edge rushers and wide receivers, and those are two of the classes that we've talked about that

are very top heavy. Yeah, come draft day, so I could see the Bills potentially being a move to go up and get maybe a Rugs if he's there at seventeen, or a Rager if they like him that much, or even getting an edge rusher one of those guys that ends up falling. I think Buffalo could be a team that you could talk with. If I were them, I would probably sit still on receiver because the guy I like the most for them, I feel like it would be more likely with an edge rusher if they if

one of those guys, and I don't like the class. Yeah, but no matter, Cowboys pick at seventeen if they pick a if they pick a pass rusher, I don't think I'll like the pick. Well, but maybe Chase On Maybe I think I would like that pick at seventeen. Honestly, I watched aj Epanessa recently. Yeah, I'm scared of rushers. You can't turn the corner uncomfortable. I'm comfortable with him at seven, I think I'm not I'm not fist pumping if ajp and S is the pick, but like, I'd

be fine with that. For the Bills, I would want Laviska Chanald. I think at receiver and I don't know if you have to move for the you're not gonna move because because Josh Allen isn't gonna be pinpoint accurate, he never will be. But if I can just get a guy who it's like, look, just get him the ball and watch him work, I think works. Yeah, that makes sense. But he's another combined health check guy too.

But you know the thing, We've saw this happen a few years ago with Taco Charlton when the Falcons traded up to get ahead of us mcley took attack McKinley. Yeah, that hasn't worked out great for them. But the Falcons picking at sixteen again, and I've kind of pinpointed them down as the team who's gonna take this year's Ryan Shay's eer type that makes you go, Okay, well we were gonna take him, yeah, but I guess we won't.

But I'll also say this, the more I thought about this and the longer we've gotten, there's not a ton of names. It's seventeen that I'm going to be high fiving and excited about. There's a lot of players I will be comfortable about at seventeen, And that's what I'm kind of saying to me. The difference in seventeen and twenty four for what this team is going to be doing, likely going defense. Likely, I'm not sure that there's a huge difference and high five level, I guess, is what

I'm saying. If that makes it still add some depth on the back end with a couple extra picks later on, it does make sense. And I think most people would be happy if the Cowboys managed to trade back in this draft, assuming they stay in the first round. Yeah, you need somebody to want to come up as always well, and this drafts kind of set up, and we've seen this in the past, but this draft is kind of

set up. And I don't know what the specific number is, but to me, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, that area in the draft all the way to twenty eight. There's a little difference, but ain't a huge difference in what we're talking about there because it's a very clear top tier of players plus the quarterbacks. And then you're just kind of sitting there going, okay, I was on the eight and eight treadmill.

I didn't but able to really get into that mix there. Now, what would be a defensive player for you that would be a high fight for the Cowboys for them seemingly if the medicals check out, That's what I'm kind of saying. I said, I don't know. I mean Javon Kinloker, Kin Laws the guy that's that's the one. I think that My next Twitter on the twenty question, Matt Holdridge came

out on Twitter on the twenty. He said, assuming the medicals check out and his knee, how close would kin Law have to be for you to trade up for him? Or do you stand pat because you don't want to lose more draft picks. You would have to pull up the chart because I did this yesterday. If you wanted to go up for and I played the game, if I wanted to go up for a defensive player, and I went with the three guys that I have above

kin Law like Derek Brown, Okuda is as Simmons. If one of them makes it to ten, you're one in your two gets you there. In theory, it gets you there, and you're overpaying by a little bit, which is probably realistic. But if you're talking about getting to fourteen or fifteen, can I get up there for a four h these charts are you know, they vary there. There's not a universal one. But the one I'm looking at Cowboys pick

at seventeen is worth nine fifty. You said fifteen, So they're they're down a difference of one point one hundred points to get to fifteen. And what is that is that less than their three? Uh? They're three is worth one eighty. But like again, like teams are going to do that deal right first round, well to two spots they would probably they wouldn't take it would take somebody's three to move. No, no, don't No, I mean, like, if you're going by the chart, I would say it

would be the fourth would be the accurate number. Teams. I don't think teams will do that, and that I think you would have, like even to move as little as like three or four spots in the first round. I think you'd have to give up your third future three. Now I could give up is what I was thinking. What about they're worth less, But in theory, I'm overpaying if I use this year's three, next year's is worth less because it's a year away. I would give a

next year three for Javon Kinlaw. Yeah, I think I'm talking about you're saying a one and yeah, correct, Yeah, I'd go from seventeen to fifteen if he's there, and I would give up a future three. I don't think teams would do that though, like to move away to be able to move away from what it's probably a blue chip player at pick fifteen, probably, I think the

other team definitely would. I don't know if I don't think it makes sense if you're at seventeen and if you you've identified your guy and you feel like you've got to get ahead of Atlanta. Maybe, But if I'm Denver sitting at fifteen, I'll go, yeah, I'll take your future three. You're gonna give me a premium draft pick. Okay, great, to jump back two spots. I'm good. But this is Cowboys a little more urgent. I think the Cowboys window to win it feels a little more urgent than it

does for Denver. You know, but I was looking at the second rounder. If you want to give up the second round pick, just doing the math. If you're going by the math, ten, maybe nine, that gets hipped to that yeah, ten area. I hate this, I really do. You made a really good point, Katie, about this. What happened to Okuda? Win? Did? He did? Fall off at the combine? Three quarterbacks went in the top six, Some offensive tackles went, Derek Brown went somehow o'cuda got down

into the nine ten range. You ever one or two? But I mean, I don't think about it, Yes you do. He's awesome. I don't like how far tam builder over here. Seriously, team Builder guy, you wouldn't give up a one or two for Okuda? Here's if you falls so far, then there's gotta be something wrong with him. Well, no, we're playing the game. You know what, It's not impossible that him will actually brown Rosa Simmons gets to nine or ten.

It's not impossible at all. The Cowboys track record over the last three years is not so sterling that I trust them to hit on every pick anyway. So yeah, I would probably do it for a guy that good, a cornerback who will be you would hope would be elite for five years before you have to worry about

paying him. Okay, I could do that if you're in the mix and then you're back there at eighty two and you're going, my god, I haven't done anything at safety defensive, well, okay, the defensive line is going to be turned over in free agency. To me, I said, talk to me after a free agency that I might be more willing to plug. We're to plug every hole in free agency. Not well, but we're going to address everything.

The problem is that with the contracts that are coming up for this team, you need to be able to replace it with cheap labor, and you can't do that without draft picks. So I mean, in a in a hypothetical world where I can get Okuda for that, I probably would, But like I'm not giving up a draft pick to go up two spots to get Jevon Kenny bodies that are cheap. Yes, you need good players that are playing for and you've got a problem with that. But you can't hit on him if you don't have them.

I can hit on him if I go get him in the top ten, then you have fewer players. Yeah, but I hit but and but then you just you have what you have right now, which is then you have a small number of expensive players and nobody else. You're guy. And that's not um okay, that's that's a low blow. He wasn't my guy once. Once ken Lall goes, I'm gonna go and get Sean Payton on the phone. Let's see if he wants to make a place yet here, I have a top twelve. And when they're gone, rip chord.

Let's get on back there. Let's pack it on. Stock up on those minimum wage players you're talking about. I mean, if you could add another like second or third by moving back five spots, I think that's the best case scenario. Seattle party, they'll party both ways, they'll trade up and down up to twenty seven. Get on back there, you can get you can get your safety there. What does Seattle want that they're coming up from twenty seven? That's

a big job. I don't worry about that. Okay, the party both ways, y'all are just trying to have fun without I respect. So if you have some guys to go out there, but it's a line still sucks. He's going to Marty Girls after missing last week's show. Am I here in your world? Ask us a question? Another question we're going to break. We've got do another? How about this pretty quickly? Do another? One? Hunter Gaspard. He goes on to say, are there any potential top tier

players that have to have really good inner views? And we talked about Polite earlier, but he uses him as an example from last year. Well, don't show up overweight and out of shape. That would be step one interviews. I got one go ahead. Top tier might be pushing it for this guy. Okay. I would not call him a top tier player, but I would call him a Day two guy. Name and Arnett from Ohio State. Oh that's a good pick. Just watched him yesterday. He's my

number twenty five player right now. The concerns you're beginning to trickle out about him from a character stand just a character side right me terribly uncomfortable to talk about a guy's character I've never met before. It's messed up. But yeah, heighteen minutes. He truly does need to go interview well, he absolutely does. What about Joe Burrow with all the Cincinnati talk and then he's untouchable. I know, he has a functional hip, so he gets to go

number one, he's safe. I mean, but just for the sake of playing along with the headlines and the hypotheticals he's talking about average Cincinnati interview matters if he walks in and says, I'm not playing for you clowns every every year, which I mean, okay, Josh Rosen did. He fell. He fell to to ten and that was after like months and months of speculation of that. He was like the worst person in the world and impossible to get

along with. As long as Joe Burrow doesn't like take a dump in the interview room, I think he'll be fine. Like some wide receivers are gonna need to like Juwan Jennings, Oh my god, whoa whoa awesome? What's he doing? They got some questions? What's the question? You're just as sailing? People's character was no he was like dismissed from the Tennessee program. Oh yeah, and came back like he had to earn his way back on the team. When he got the junior year, yeah, got bad yea and running

every freaking yak all day, everyday South Carolina tape. He returned with rage. He had the marijuana stuff, which maybe won't matter in the future, but man, I hate that. And then he had he had a whole thing where he went on Twitter and started blowing up his coaches online. Then he stepped on a player's head against Vanderbilt. Quentin Cefas, who I love out of Wisconsin. He love q There's some things on him as well. And also the guard from Louisiana that I think people were talking about a

lot now, Robert Hunt. He had a wild thing or him in like thirteen teammates broke into an apartment, started stealing stuff. So he's gonna need to like have a good interview. Thirteen teammates in one apartment. It was a weird thing. Is all over the Red Flag Report every year. It's about to say how are you so? On top of him, he was also arrested for something else the

spring of twenty seventeen. It takes shady to know shady, but all they wants to know all the red flags, so he knows if one of these guys drop, he's still a good player. Yeah, this is Robert Hunt was in the spring of twenty seventeen. Uh, he was one of thirteen Louisiana players or break into his dorm room and still electronics and jewelry my god. But also others say that he's seen as a joker and displays a lot of positive energy on the good on the practice field.

So maybe you're getting that pretty good. Hopefully, hopefully his interview goes well, so he gets drafted and pushes other players to the Cowboys brands. Are we okay to go to break now? Yeah? We can go to break? No break, No, I mean this is Internet radio. One more. Okay, So I'm not staying until like twelve thirty. Again, We're not

going until twelve thirty. Okay, we come back. We'll look at some of the specifics of the NFL combine and some of the players that need to show up, maybe with or without some red flags when we return here on the Draft show. I've got some questions about Logan Stenberg. I want to use what the pros use. How about the official men's skincare brand of the Dallas Cowboys, Jack Black. Right now you can get the Jack Black Starter, curated collection of Cowboys locker room favorites for just ten bucks

with free shipping. The Starter includes four Jack Black skincare favorites plus a full sized intense therapy lip bomb. Go to get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys and use the old word team JB. That's get Jack Black dot com slash Cowboys the Jack Black Starter ten bucks, free shipping. Whether you're into being a part of this or more into something like this, Sea Geek has the tickets to the events you love. It's the easiest way to find,

buy and sell tickets. Plus, with their deal score technology, they'll recommend the best seats in the house at the best value. So the next time you're craving this, download the sea Geek app and let's go seek. I'm Jay Novachik, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day, I was the guy who always got the tough yards, and that's why I run with John Deer today. In fact, I have a John Deer three zero twenty five e tractor that can handle any yard work I need to do,

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with America's best network. Come into an AT and T store to find out how to get one of our popular smartphones for zero dollars down based on GWS one score. September twenty nineteen. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. One. Final segment here from the Star in Frisco at Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Here from the SWBC Mortgage studio. Jeff kavan On, Kevin Turner, David Hellman, and myself. Kyle Yeoman's with you. Thanks for joining us again.

We'll be live from Indianapole, US next week. Dave Hellman and myself. Are we gonna be with Bucky Brooks next week? I'm sure we'll see him. Yeah, I don't know if he's doing all the shows. I haven't ironed out the details of whether he'll be back with us yet, but but we'll have plenty of guests throughout the week. We'll be on radio row the entire freaking NFL world. Yeah, it will be in Indianapolis. At the at the touch of a finger, all at the fingertips, I don't know

what the saying is, Yeah, yeah, pass it. It's okay. Let's talk about some of the specifics of this combine coming up, some of the specific players and guys specifically that need to have good combines, whether it be because of the red flags that Katie was talking about earlier, some of the medicals as well. But let's start off

by inflating Dave Hellman's ego just a little bit. Are the schools with the majority of representation in Indianapolis, and by far no surprise, it's the LSU Tigers up at the time of that list, David smiling ear to ear At the moment, I mainly feel guilty because, like we keep talking about LSU players, and I swear to God, I'm not doing it. Where's Texas not doing it? Because I'm a homer. There's just so many of them. There's not,

honestly other than LSU at the top. The thing that jumps out to me, which I mean, obviously Utah was very good at football this year, but nine nine for Utah, nine really good ones. We've got Michigan and Ohio State with eleven at two and three, so I thought that was kind of interesting. In Alabama then Georgia it's Ben Auburn. Michigan's got Ohio State type talent without the the dubs, without the production, trying to run Harbor out of town?

Are you Davis, I'm just saying win something anyway, So the quarterback, I'm with you on that. But yeah, plenty of SEC representation there as well, because Florida's down at number nine. Then they round out the top ten with Miami. But with that being said, like you said, there's a lot of specific players in there that are, like you said, with a lot of good competition throughout the season. You

got a lot of good tape on them. But with the combine come these injury questions and that's our next graphic that we're gonna pull up as some of the Combine players that have some injury storylines, and not all of them are going to be listed here. I only have four up there. At the top of the list is Javon Kinlaw, South Carolina defensive tackle, had some knee tendon ninus issues, missed the final practice of Senior Bowl

week and then also the Senior Bowl as well. Brandon Ayuk from Arizona State, the wide receiver, had a minor growing injury. He missed the Senior Bowl as well. To a Tagabaloa from Alabama quarterback. And I just threw them all up there, hip, ankle, thumb, knee injuries, all of us, everything but the hip is one the focal point. And then Ashton Davis out of California also with a growing injury. Ashton Davis, Brandon Ayouk, and javon Kinlaw really had very

little to gain it the Senior Bowl. Maybe more for Ayouk and Ashton Davis. But this is what's great about the Combine as you kind of get to a point where there's no more hiding behind neaton denitis. If that's not really what it is. So we'll find out if that's what's really going on with Javon Kinlaw and if we don't, they find a way to cover it up. And then if we find out a medical at Combine

rechecks a month later, it will come out. It will it will come out, and we'll finally know because the whispers, the whispers have been there since, you know, the end of last year. What's really going on with that knee. I don't know, not a doctor where I really need to find out because that will impact things. It will impact the way this team thinks about the draft. Um, So I'm and you know, Aston Davis is a guy who this team might could be interesting. Yeah, both of

those guys didn't shoot. I'd even thrown. With the depth of the receiver class. It's almost like I've kind of got a peg on him because I'm like, I want to know more about this injury before I really dive into the possibilities of drafting him. So there's Ashton Davis is a name. Then at fifty one, if he pops up and he's available at fifty one, a lot of people are to be high fiving over that pick. Now. I don't know if I would classify it as a

high five pick myself, but I'd be interested. Oh I thought you meant you wouldn't be happy, Well, you gotta tell me happy. I wouldn't be high fiving. You gotta tell me. I think he would be a solid pick. He had to tell me who's on the board at the time. That's a good point. But you know, there's there's so many guys. There's a Lucas Niang. He's a tackle from TCU who's got really good tape. But they had to shut him down because he got a bad hip. So okay, what do you do with that? They shut

him down? Um, go find out what the combine check. So he's the guy who could sneak into the top half of the second round. Terreb could sneak into that little we were talking about the offensive tackles that Josh Jones, Austin Jackson, and Lucas Niang is really good. But he's got a bad hip, So what do we know about it? Terrell Lewis is a guy that picks my interest to I mean, yeah, that's my guy. He comes with a

lot of injury concerns. Oh my god, acl every I mean the players he's having on knees yeah, well he does not. I promise you he does. But man, he was bullying people at the Senior Bowl six five to fifty eleven and a half tackle for loss last year. Like he's a hell of a player, you know what I mean? Can I trust him to stay healthy if

I draft him? When kyleson out the text the other night of like who are some guys who are trying to get get the graphics on board, He's the guy I forget to send because Terrell Lewis to me, if the knee checks out and he does everything, hit the combine and he will, I think he'll do the three kid will do all that stuff. Then he is edge number. Are we talking? He's faces on camera and there two or three. I'm asking you for me, Edge number. What I'm excited about the upside there? And I am it's

a gamble. It's it's gonna feel like a gamble because of where you're taking him and in the history. But the juice off the edge, I think him and Chason's gonna blow up the combine most likely. Yeah, And I think you'll see Chason and Terrell Lewis if things work out for him and start climbing and then you know, does Epanessa Fall, does Matos from pinn State Fall. I think my guy, Grossmatos might get help at the combine. I think you think he's gonna test well, I think

he will do. I mean, I think he's gonna run a four to five nine. He a whole really five nine. Yeah, I think Grossmatos is gonna run a nice forty and then I'm gonna pull for him to have a nice three cone so I can feel good about how I feel about his team. He's a very fun player at times. You sometimes you go okay, you just get swallowed up by the run. But then sometimes he'll they'll bump him inside and he's just six five. I mean he's he maybe six six when they measure him at the combine,

I mean he is. He's a very long player. As long as we're doing this, I'll throw one and like this is this is a guy who I don't even know what to do with him. I feel like the narrative on him is fluctuating as we go. But Marlon Davidson out of Auburn, Okay, I'm I'm in. And it's not from a it's not from a medical perspective, but from a testing perspective, because Auburn used him all over over the place. He was at the Senior Bowl, Like, he played a lot of tackle, he played some edge.

If he blows up, I mean, if he blows up the way we're talking about with gross mottos, I think that completely changes the conversation on where you draft him and you had him as one of your guys or your guy in terms of I definitely want to see rise or fall list he like he is a guy, and you always have to stress like what the media is talking about has nothing to do there. We go, oh, yeah, that's my guy. What we in the media are talking about has nothing to do with the way teams see

these guys. Like, yeah, teams might see Marlin Davidson as a first round pick right now, but if he goes out and runs this badass three cone, then he's going to jump into the consciousness of those of us who are on the outside. Absolutely, so I think he's got a lot to game. Now. You guys across the table both have wide receivers as your most likely players to rise or fall. Jeff, you have Colin Johnson, Kevin or Katie.

I don't know why I called you Kevin, Katie, you have Courtney Davis, and then I've got Jordan Love as a quarterback Utah State. We talked about him a little bit earlier, but kind of going on the wide receiver thought process here is Mama called him Kevin. I'm gonna call him Kevin. It's Kevin Turner over there, and Katie. Colin Johnson's interesting because you can watch him go against a lot of different good dbs on tape throughout the year.

One that jumps out to me is Jeff Gladney against TCU, and there are reps in that game where he makes Jeff Gladney, who might go in the first round, look like a child. Yeah. Now there are reps where Jeff Gladney gets the better of Colin Johnson. But there's times we're on a stop route, He's able to move him six yards at the top of the route and catch a ball. He's able to down the field just go pluck it, and a lot of times just kind of

nudge his way open. So Colin Johnson's got a really big catch radius and he's got a lot going for him, But on tape, he might be about to run a four six to eight So that's the funny thing is we just we'd poo pooed the forty and most draftnicks do. But he needs to run a really nice forty time if he's going to do something drastick to his draft stock. Oh yeah, I think he's a Day three guy. Now. Now if he runs, if he shows up and it's like Colin Johnson ran a four four nine, it's like, okay,

let's revaluate. And that's where these little things. Now, when we talk about the wide receiver group specifically and how the hard of a stack that's going to be to put together, that is where these little things that the combine might push guys. Um. I have Courtney Davis on my list and he's the wide receiver from Texas A and M. Because about two weeks ago I received a text from an inside source. You guys all know who it is. And he goes and he goes, yeah, he's

gonna run a four to three at the combine. Wow, now in the four three's not a fourth three. Oh, but he's gonna run a four three at the combine. On a springtime I had him at a four to five three. You watch him on tape. He's a guy who's great with the ball in his hands, but he has drops and he's not a great route runner. He's got some inconsistencies to his game. But the size is there, the speed is there, the explosions there after the catch, he's good. He showed that off and showed that a

little bit some physicality to him. And one thing I want to talk We haven't talked about the gauntlet yet. The gauntlet's my favorite drill, the whole thing. So among the many changes they're timing that now and I should I think they're just doing it to make it more competitive, like to kind of get these guys juices going. I think it's more for TV. Yeah, no, that's what I'm for. The few competitive for the players, but also more entertaining

for fans for sure. Well, the gauntlets where they run horizontally across the field, turning both sides of their body to catch the ball. Is he going to catch the ball with his hands? Well? Is Hunter Bryant from Washington the tight end that everyone's in love with and I like a lot too, how's he going to look? I learn of the guys who can't stay on the line, it's amazing sometimes those they float. The guys look sometimes uncomfortable, and then sometimes you get a guy who just comes there.

It's the most smooth thing. It's so much fun to watch when a guy who's got vacuum hands just it's great. It's beautiful how they turn their hips when they're running across the field. That's the gauntlets of fun drill too. See, all of these drills are not pointless. We've got someone's watching here. Some of them might here's it's they're not pointless, but because this is becoming a TV event, they get

blown out of proportion. Like it's a good point. Is Byron Jones a good player because he set the world record at the broad jump at the Colin carn No our tape had him is a first round corner before the com It's a piece of the puzzle to that point, like Colin Johnson can have super impressive tape, and he does at times. If he runs a four, if he runs a four eight, that probably he can't separate at the NFL level. And so as much as we bash on the forty, it is important. It's it's all. It's

just it's not so much that anything's worthless. It's you just have to weigh it properly. Well. It's a piece of the puzzle that will continue to evaluate over the next couple of weeks. But that's going to do it this week for the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Thanks so much, Jeff, You're Okayte for joining us. We'll see you next couple of weeks. Enjoy, Thank you some stuff. David and I will be live from Indianapolis next week is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show hits the

road for the second time this season. We'll be back in just a little bit or next week. Thanks for watching. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.