Draft Show: Lessons To Learn

big voice guy just said. I think he said all y'all's names too. I don't know why I do this every week. I'm with Jeff Kavanaugh, Brian brought us Kyle Yeomans. You get the drill by now, guys, how are we doing excellent talking about the draft? How can you not be any better? I'm exactly. Super Bowls over just welcomed everybody. Now that has to start to catch up. Yeah everybody Now, now everybody else has to hop on. Like now you don't hear you go if you're not a draft Nick skymore?

All right? Can you not more? Guy? Can you not give away? Future segments from a start with that. Let him let wide receiver Skymore. I asked Jeff who he who was the last guy he watched last week? And he got pissed at me. But now he comes in here just dying to talk about sky More. Skymore, So let's go. Come on. Oh, he's a Western Michigan wide receiver. He's five ten, one hundred ninety five and he's Cooper Cup. So um, just pick him. Yeah, second round done. I'm

gonna put him in every mock draft. Cooper Cup is a lot bigger than that. Just for the record, Um, six yeah, six one five. I thought I looked this up yesterday. I mean a bigger player, play style. Sorry, Skymore, Western Michigan wide receiver. Just put him on your radar. If you're out there and you love the draft and you haven't watched him, watch him. He's to me, the safest it's weird to say about a Western Michigan wide receiver.

He's the safest receiver I've watched this year. At worst, he's going to be a good slot starter as a rookie. I was about to say, well, you know, Corey Davis came out of Western, and then I realized, like, maybe you know he hasn't had him. He's all right, isn't that right? And then a bad career. Maybe. Did I hear him say he was talking about wide receiver one he did, Yeah, he said he didn't have the nuts to put him there, sky Moore, Yeah, well, because I

don't know if he could thrive on the out out here. No, no, I just want to use him as Cooper Cup. And the reason I keep saying Cooper Cup, Cooper Cup, first round, Cooper Cup in a first round pick, Yes, of course, if you could red that draft, he absolutely would be. And so like, I don't know how this guy's gonna test. I know he's five nine five um, And when I watch him play, it's just it's the movement patterns. Everything

looks like Cooper Cup. Looks like there's other guys in the league that when they're runner are out like can chop their feet and explode faster. But Cooper Cup like does this thing where everything is a little bit of a forward lean and he can change directions great at speed, and then after the catch he's hell on wheels. For the same reason, Skymore at Western Michigan plays does he just play inside? No, no, no excuse, me. He plays

inside and outside, Okay, I just don't know. In the NFL against Toledo and Miami of Ohio, I watched him shred Pitt and Michigan. There you go, you first team All MAC. He's only a sophomore too, which is kind of intriguing to me. Guess right, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, gotcha. Yeah. He's a rocked up five foot ten and if you want to picture him moving picture Cooper cup best trade, it's all gonna fall along the same vein. But it's

like he's unstoppable off the line of scrimmage. Okay, So people are gonna have trouble playing against him off the line there, people are gonna have trouble standing in front of him off the line. Is that what gets him open? Or does he get open on his own down the field? Uh? He gets open off the line, and he gets open because he can do the like I'm not saying going from right to left, but going from I'm going deep right to deep left, and it's like it's a violent

loses no speed doing it skymore. He's my guy. Shout out to Twitter listener, Sonny, I saw your question. Sorry, Sonny, I ruined the Draft Show. Sky Moore was going to be a question in the next segment, but we just knocked it out for you. Ninety four catches, twelve hundred and eighty three yards, ten touches, We got games against Michigan. You said Michigan pit. Watched him against ACC champion pit team State. That's what I want really quickly. So which

one was better? Is it sky Moore or is it Dwayne Eskridge, who came out of Western Michigan last year was the second round as well. Yeah, sky Skymore is better because Duyne Eskridge didn't have a great rookie year. Ten reception, sixty four yards, he had one touchdown. If Skymore doesn't kill it, I'm stupid, But I've been stupid before. That's the thing that fa The thing is when you see a guy and you're sure, I'm sure Skymore is

going to approach. He talked about a lobby when we did the show earlier, about how the smoothness did he plays with and how he gets open similar? Not similar. The reason I have sky Moore ahead of Chris Olave is because sky More also has like five ten You're thinking small and I'm telling you about that's Okay, right, well, and I'm telling you about quickness, so it's like, oh, he must not be powerful. Byss he's a rocked up

five ten moving like that. And so I just keep going back to the same name, and it's dumb, but I keep going back to Cooper Cup because it's the same thing with the ball in his hands, where just like one guy in space is screwed, whether he runs through you, around you, makes you lean the wrong way with the MacMan, does he have a weakness that you saw something that you didn't like us It would be hard to be sure about projecting him as an outside receiver. I think I would be the one thing. I so

skymore watch one highlight. No, he's been No, actually I should I pulled up his height. He's been invited to the combine. I'm seeing later. I'm seeing five nine, So I'm curious to see what his actual measurement. He's my five nine, Okay, my five nine. Steve Smith was short like that. If if if Cup is the guy you keep bringing up, I'm gonna go with it. And I know that it's funny because they're built differently, and by rule in the draft, you have to compare white guys

to white guys. No, Sky Moore's a white guy, and he's not the same height. They play the same Okay, Okay, Hey, I've said a lot of dumb stuff on this show. I didn't really want to draft Michael Parsons, but I fell in love with Cooper Cup about an hour into the Senior Bowl. I remember that, so I'm on board with it. Which Anywhears twenty four receiver, that's a weird just pretty badass. So was he was? He was? He recruited as a ring back? What's with all the questions? No,

you don't have to draft show ask Dane. I don't know it's college. You're just asking you. I'm asking you. I'm just asking Dane. On Wednesday, he does the background, he'll be at YouTube dot com. You weren't interested in in his background. You weren't interested to know his background. I just watched the tape, brother, Okay, Brian's just salty that you brought from and watched to the table. And he's from Western Michigan. Okay, this is a good segue. If y'all'll let me do it, If you'll let me

do it, Fox Chapel, Pennsylvania here, Thank you, very much. Cooper. Cup is where I wanted to start this show, to be honest with you. And I know we're all draft nerds, so this is gonna be counterintuitive, but yes, we we're forty eight hours away from the Rams winning Super Bowl fifty six, and I just want to pick y'all's brains. I think every year at this time, you're always trying to see if you can learn something from the Super Bowl teams, right, And I'm just curious what you think

about the way the Rams pulled that off. And I want to I want to be clear because I think it would be lazy to say that like the Rams bought their roster or traded for drafted, They drafted, They drafted Donald, they drafted really well yeah went I mean they drafted like twelve in their starters. Yeah, it's all

mid and late a lot of mid round guys. They drafted Donald, they drafted Cup, they drafted their tackles, they drafted all of their defensive contributors on the one end, and even going back, they drafted guys like John Johnson. Like they're a pretty good drafting team all things consider, But then they filled the gaps with trading their will agency and their willingness to do it with picks that matter is pretty eye opening. I went in like I

pulled a lot of this stuff up. Obviously, everybody knows the Stafford trade a twenty twenty two first, a twenty twenty three first, a twenty twenty one last year's third. Obviously, the Jalen Ramsey trade two firsts and a fourth middle of the season last year. They trade this year's two and this year's three for von Miller who comes in, plays eight games, gets five sacks. Harassed Joe Burrow all day. Just add a round to every one of those trades,

just ad they've been so consistently good. Well, no, add a round two because where those picks are going to be, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, that's the problem is you've you've given up, right, you just gave up the thirty second really for the last Yeah you get you know, the Lions got a player at thirty two, they get

to select. I mean, the Cowboys did the same thing with Amari Cooper if you remember, Yeah, you know, I mean at one time that looked like the like maybe the top ten pick, and then it turned into the Raiders end up getting what twenty six, twenty seven, something like that, twenty seven. Yeah, So to me, if you make those trades and you feel like that your team is going to be good, it's like you're just going

at a round to that. You know, it's it's the thing that backfires on you that you know, some of these trades, like the Houston trades and stuff, the Germany tunsils and stuff like that. I mean, you know, those are the kinds of things that backfire runs. So when you look at this though, and I wanted to be thorough too, like it's not just blockbusters. They're starting center for the last few years. Austin Corbett, failed second round pick with the Browns, they get him for a fifth.

He started two years for them, Sony Michelle, they're leading rusher this year because Cam Akers, another good draft pick, gets hurt. They get him for a fifth and a sixth conditional picks. And then over the years they've been involved in trades for Marcus Peters keep to but they traded Robert Quinn away. They hate drafting Brandon Cooks, Dante Fowler. Uh. They got Kenny Young and then sent him away. Like they they almost work like a baseball team. Like exactly

what I was thinking. It's like trade deadline, let's go try and make a run at this thing, sort of baseball dealing, wheeling and dealing. So I'm curious, this is just what what my brain goes to. Do you think they're willing to do that because of their confidence that they're going to be a contender and that those picks will be around later, Like you're saying yeah, Or is the NFL overvaluing unspent draft picks and the Rams are

taking advantage of it? And I've talked to you about this well, and I think the answer to like, it's weird because the answer to everything is yes, which is why I love this format as opposed to like, I'm gonna hit you with seventeen hard opinions, because like the Rams, I don't think it's true that they don't value the draft. They realize they don't like the draft. They don't they

realize that they're chosen. Strategy is that we think our first round picks are better used and acquiring surefires players are yet and some teams don't. But they know the value of the draft because they do accumulate mid and late round like they want to pick they want to fill up their roster with young, affordable talent, so everybody

has different ways they do it. So I think, yes, it's true that most teams over value draft picks in general, Like the Cowboys should have been at the front of the line when the Chiefs traded for Melvin Ingram at the trade deadline. If you've got a guy who could be like a rental player, who somebody's going to sign him next year, you might get a comp pick back, and you can do that for a mid to late round pick. The value of a mid to late round

pick most of the time is near zero. Now, the value of having a bunch of them is you get more shots at it, and if you get more shots at it, you'll stumble into some good young contributors. So overall, yes, I think the league value their draft picks too much. And the maybe the most impressive part is like the Rams have been making a habit of not picking until Day two and sometimes even day three on the regular. This year, their first picks not till the third round.

They're gonna get some compicks um for an executive that they that left for the Detroit as well as some late round guys. But like, just listen to this, Like they've done some solid work just drafting in those money rounds, whether you want to talk about a John Johnson, a Josh Reynolds, a Tyler Higbee in the fourth round. Look at the number of picks last year, Like the team that quote doesn't draft because they're willing to trade first rounders.

Twenty twenty one, they picked nine players. Twenty twenty, they picked nine players. Twenty nineteen, they picked eight players. A year before that big ten or eleven players. They do this set of desperation. That desperation, Yeah, it is, it really is. I've talked to the general manager, I know Less Snead. Yeah, Less was in a mode you tipped the time early pick. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's when you know the general manager. That's how you get that stuff.

The general manager there though, when you feel like that your job is not safe, when you feel like that, there's things about it. And again to me, I feel like though, when you look at these teams and when they make moves, they make moves and then they start to work, and it's like but it's a lot of it out of desperation. It's somebody else's problem. If let's need if that team had not had success and they move on from a general manager and all those picks

are gone, that's somebody else's problem. Sure, but I have got to find a way to quickly turn things around or I'm going to lose my job. Less admitted that, I mean he knew, he knew that potentially before Sean McVay became walking through that door, that he was going to have to do something big. And I'll tell you another thing they're better at than everybody else. They know their team. Teams that don't know their team aren't willing to trade their quarterback that they drafted, that they gave

all that capital too. And it's not just Jared Goff either, Like they've been willing to get they got rid of it. They know who they know, they know and see that's the that's the biggest more Pro Bowls than at Steffer. That's the thing about it is though they know their team and they know how their team works, you know, and and and to me, it's desperation and knowing your team.

I think I get your point, especially moving to LA building this billion, you know, multi billion dollars stadium twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. But like in the time since Sean mcvagh got there, they've only missed the playoffs once. They've been in Super Bowl twice. Like, that doesn't sound like desperation to me. That just sounds like they've hit started with. It started off as the desperation, and then desperation showed

that it could actually work. I mean, I think I think as a general manager, this is this is the one trade I would want to have. I would want to be desperate every single time. I would want to be desperate knowing that my job is on the line every single day. You know why, because that would make me a better general manager. That would make me go and try and trade for Ramsey, or try and trade for Stafford, or try and do this, or try and do that. Because the minute you lose that desperation and

you feel comfortable with it, you get lazy. Your team just turns into what it is. And I think that's what the Rams. They're not willing to sit there and let their team just turn into what it is. You know, that guy's willing to move and make moves, and I think that's a great trade to have. That's really one of the things that kind of when you were talking

about desperation early on. That sets this situation apart from other desperate situations is if you are a general manager and you're making these rosters, you're putting this all together, Sure you can kind of kick the can down the road a little bit, right. The Rams aren't kicking the can down the road just a tad bit. They're kicking it all the way down the road. Somebody else's problem. If it doesn't work way down the road, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, it's because they figured out along the

way that it works. It works as a factor of maybe, hey, the league is overvaluing these draft picks. Instead of looking in the fourth round for a guy who can start at your right guard spot, Let's go trade and go get a guy like Austin Austin Corbet who's an automatic starter and had played wealth for you throughout the season. Let's go get a Sony Michelle who can step in whenever cam Akers is out, just because hey, we don't

have another guy that we feel comfortable in. Once again, knowing your team, knowing the state of the rest of the league too, they knew they could go out and get Matt Stafford for Jared Goff and go make something happen because Matt Stafford is a special quarterback. Jared Goff maybe not so much, despite some of the success he had already had. It's it's a better, it's a better it's a better plan to trade for Jalen Ramsey and it is to draft Mo Claiborne. Right, that's so true.

That's it's a better plan. You know what Jalen Ramsey is. But see, I think the Rams are one of the few teams that has come to that realization, is that they know players better than you. This guy that's four years into his career is a better bet than It's almost like letting your letting your cowork the job. Look what vond Miller did for them and the playoffs. I want to I want to be sack every game. I

don't think you sack. I don't think it's realistic for most teams to be doing deals like that on the rag And I honestly, I don't think I would want the Cowboys too, Like they have proven that they're good enough with their first round picks. What days that parade in La I knew you were gonna say that. I knew you're gonna say that, but no, I do. I do think. I think they're a balance needs to be struck and this is for the whole league. I okay, So I think when you do the like, what could

you learn from the Super Bowl teams? For the Cowboys, I think the answer is almost nothing. Like the Rams have chosen this route and we know what this route is, and if you want them to be more aggressive, that's fair. But every team is dependent on where are you in your cycle of who's on your team. If you are the Cowboys, for instance, right now, just today, they have seven very highly paid veterans that most of them can release, and if you did, you wouldn't save much and it

might end up hurting, right. Yeah, So like for the Rams, when you're making those moves, you had the ability to pay those guys. You didn't have a highly paid quarterback, you didn't have a list of seven guys making double digit million dollars every year. So it's all about where are you in your cycle? And the Cowboys do choose, for the most parts, the same path. Yeah, they chose, they choose kind of the same cycle. It would be different if you had decided when contracts were up that

I'm not paying Zeke, I'm not paying Lyle Collins. That there's a level of player I'm not going to pay. Then you could go chase somebody else's. They're not in a spot where they can do that because they've chosen that Lyle Collins, Ezekiel Elliott, Jayalen Smith, all of the guys who are ten to eighteen to twenty million dollar players, they chose that you deserve this salary which takes you out of those runnings. See I get That's that's what I mean when I say balanced, though, like I go

back to it all the time. I'm sorry if I'm a broken record. But like the trade that they pulled off for Robert Quinn a few years ago, that's the type of thing that I'm talking too. And the Rams have done plenty of those types of deals, Like to get their starting center for a fifth round pick. How about getting two years out of Dante Fowler for a third and a fifth. Cowboys sent what I think it

was a fifth and a seventh to the Dolphins for Quinn. Yeah, he comes in and has twelve sacks and he didn't stay here long, but that's not but he got you back better than a fifth right, that's my point, because he played well and got paid, and that's what like, I don't want the Cowboys dealing all of these valuable assets away. And also I don't think they ever would,

just to be blunt about it, but I do. I think there's more that you can do to bring talent onto your roster than to just say, well, these are our eight picks this year. Comfortable nail, so we are. We're comfortable here. You've got the Rams on one side of this spectrum of hey, we're gonna not value the draft the same way, we're gonna try and acquisite or acquire players from the rest of the league, and then that's a shorter cycle. It's it's gonna be three or

four years. You're gonna be fine. You'll have a legitimate window to a win. Cowboys are on the complete opposite end of that spectrum. And the fact that we value the draft, we're gonna keep our guys around, we're gonna make sure we build from within, and that's a longer cycle. It's an eight or nine year window, but it's not as volatile as what the Rams could do in the fact that they can actually win a Super Bowl. And

I almost forgot. The reason I was saying that I don't think you can learn a ton from either one is because regardless of the way that they did it, and they get credit because you won playoff games, you went to the super Bowl. Sure, the Rams were the four seed, the Bengals were the four seed. Neither one of these teams was the best team in football. If you run back the postseason and just say, hey, guys, we're gonna try again, it's very likely neither one plays

in the Super Bowl. Yeah, you just won the games, winning games and tiny sample sizes, and then using that as a we must build like them is probably a fool's errand because the Bengals would not run that again. The Rams, on top of probably not running that again, one of the teams they sent home beat them on their own turf to get into the playoffs in the last week of the season, and should have beaten I mean, they're dropped open pick by Jakois guitar away from losing that.

And so winning the Super Bowl is very very hard, and so whoever does it immediately saying I need to be like them is probably a bad idea because guess what, they ain't going back. I completely. Yeah, But is it better than you just to give your odds neither one of those teams is in the super Bowl next year? Well yeah, I mean would you take that chance though, if you knew it could get you a Super Bowl if as opposed to what you're doing right now for

the last twenty six years. But that's the problem. See that, Okay, that's the problem I have. Then if you're a fan of Kwaski catches the ball? Sure didn't. Sure, But then again, you're looking at twenty six years of here of not having even even a chance at it. I mean you look at you know, the way that you've done things, and trust me, through the twenty six years, I was part of the some of the bad crap that was

going on here, you know. But to me, I think that you sit there and if you expect the same things, then you get what you get. And that's you know, and if the building a team is great and everybody can say, oh, this is a really talented roster, and then you sit home every year when it comes Super Bowl time, and what good is that? And I think that's why a lot of Cowboy fans are probably frustrated because it feels like You're the one team who has

never been able to go on the run. And there is no identifying reason of why Romo had two teams that were probably good enough to go to the Supero. They were absolutely Dax had probably two teams that were good enough to go to the Super Bowl. And yet everybody else who gives themselves that many chances in the postseason finds a way to advance more than the Cowboys had.

And that's that's my overall point. You're absolutely right. I remember the whole league chased Seattle's model for like five years, and it was like, oh, it turns out it's really hard to draft three Hall of Fame defenders and a quarterback who's good enough to start at the same two of them on day three at right, So I get that button. We're not just talking about the Rams winning this Super Bowl. They've been a mainstay in the playoffs for five years at this point, given to two super

Bowls in the last five years. Sean McVeigh helps them too. I just think that that I think is true, and it's not necessarily a Cowboys thing. That's a trend that I can't wait to watch, is I just I wonder if we're going to see a change in the way teams cling to these draft picks that they can't be touched, because that was the attitude for so long. Again, I always gave up a one one time they needed a wide receiver. Well he gave it. Next he gave up two ones for Joey Galloway. He gave up a one

and a three and a five for Roy Williams. Are these are lifetime ago moves. But this iteration, but he is the general manager. It shows a point. Yeah, the general manager has done this before it goes on there. I do think the general manager is desperate. I don't think there's people around him that are desperate enough. That's my problem. That is my problem. I think the Cowboys do a lot of the things people are yelling at

them to do, and they don't realize it. Where it's like because I hear a lot of people like, go all in, move all the money back, keep everybody, do that, and it's like, well, they're here because they actually already do. Every highly paid player on this team that's not Dak is on the cap this year for significantly more than

they get would your year. They've already done it. Would you say, would you say, then they've misevaluated their team of who to pay and has some of the and yes, some of the contract extensions been because of they're not moving quick enough. Yeah, some of the problems. I would go after this front office and say, for a team that talks about wanting to win deals, yeah, you get destroyed in every negotiation. Tank destroyed you, Zeke destroyed you,

Dak destroyed you. For a team because they want it to be their deal, and then they wait until it's too late to get their deal, and it's like crap, whatever you want. Going back, going back to the line about being a baseball team, I'm not sure they're ruthless enough when it comes to just bottom line, like getting rid of a guy a year too soon instead of too late, not caving on negotiations, that type of stuff.

I think that's fair to say. Anyway. So now that we've gotten all that frustration out from the super Bowl and we've cut into Twitter on the twenties, so we'll make this quick. We'll be right, we'll be all right back to answer your questionable second segment. At Smoothie King, we are blending goodness to fuel your grayness. Every blind is crafted to help you achieve your health and fitness goals.

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Actually this question is from Jeff. That's perfect, and it's a wide receiver question. I did not ask a question. This will work in a crazy Seedee Lamb esque scenario where Garrett Wilson and Treylon Burke's are both available to you. Who do you prefer Garrett Wilson? Yeah, Wilson? Um. I mean, y'all all agree that the best in the class. He's my only He's my only first round wide receiver. And by first round I mean the rest of them. I

gave the cheater grade two. I like to cheat like a late like a late first yeah, game a one two, which is just my way of delineating when I'm looking at my own board. However you want you learn that from Dane. It's how I draw a line of this group. I would pick first, and then let's go down to this group us. Your sky guy. Is he the top of the right, below the one Wilson. Garrett Wilson is number one to the house today, Trailing Burks is number two.

Now disclaimer, I still have not seen Drake London London Nutacks. I still haven't say okay, I still haven't seen Drake London, but Garrett Wilson is my first one, then Trail and Burks at Arkansas, then Jamison Williams, then Skymore. Okay, that's my top four wide receivers. Wilson separates and separation is King Burks is going to be hellified ball in the air, screen game. You could gadget him. He'll be really, really good.

But Garrett Wilson I love. And the one thing about Wilson you were talking earlier about Cooper Cup and that first step like trying to have that first defender take him down. It's not happening against Garrett Wilson. I think he's shifty enough to get around defenders. He's he's going to be good at all three levels. He's that deep threat ability. He still has a chance to catch in traffic because he is a decent size. I mean six

foot that's a good size for a receiver. So I like him over Burks because I think he can do more. I think you can use him in a number of different works. Comes with more Risks, I agree wis a whole lot of He's gone a flat routes and screen game and he's got a really bad quarterback and he makes catches, so that should presses men a bad quarterback. Bat Lsu Drake London at US he watching him yesterday. I mean, the guy can catch in traffic, he can

catch downfield. He has a bit of separation at the top of his routes, but not as much as you would really want because he's so big. He's just a big bodied receiver, great on the outside. He can be used. Mike Williams M Yeah, I call I called him. I called him Adam Feeling. Who's hoo? I called him. I thought he was I thought he was a bigger Adam. Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, I'm gonna ask Brian this question because he got here first and we talked about it.

If either of you all have watched him, feel free to chime in. GC wants to know about Andrew Booth, the Clemson cornerback. Yeah, I think there's a What's interesting is about him with Booth is they don't throw the ball at him very much. I mean when you watch him play, you really have to struggle to find them like trying to attack him, because he's got all the skills that you want. The coaches usually usually use him

on the outside in man coverage. But you know, that's that's where I kind of feel like that he could be his best With Clemson. You do see a little bit of zone with him, but he just doesn't get many opportunities to get challenged. And you know, but the movement looked good. He was flexible to bend his back pedal with the quickness to drive the redirection. You know, they threw a screen his direction the one time he was able to rally and get there and make the play.

I saw a guy that you know, has all the things you want, but I think he is a fifty fifty tackler at best. I really really do. I've seen him wrap up, but I've also seen him with really badly too. And I just don't feel like there's any issues with the athletic stuff. We'll see about the toughness side of it, but man, the guy does have a burst and he does make some plays when he gets

the opportunity. If you're open to the Cowboys picking a corner in the first round, then I think you need to know Andrew Booths because I think that's about where he goes. I think he's a guy that gets picked him. This is a name. I don't think we've set his name on this show now, and that feels like an oversight at this point. I think he is a full size corner that is very well rounded with one exception,

and Brian named it for you. He's an out of control tackler, like he's a run forward, dive lunge, like he'll throw his body at you, but he's not breaking down. And he's not a good tackler. But man zone movement skills, catchpoint, Andrew Boots a player, he's good, so great and coverage poor tackler. Where would that nick him for your grades? Like, where would that set him? And I think I think the Yeah, I think the I think the movement skills

and the ability to play the ball. And again I always evaluate corners that could take routes inside because I think that's the most difficult thing. This guy has no problem doing that. I would like, I say, Jeff's right, if you take him at twenty four. I don't think that's a problem. The tackling is an issue, But then again, there's people that will say his job is to cover,

not to tackle. Yeah, you do have to tackle, But I kind of feel like, though, if I where I put him is my thought was more about him at the top of the second round than he was at first. But then again, that's outside my range of the twenty guys that I have first round grades on. So he's in that in that mix of twenty two, twenty three, twenty four area. For me, a lot of people have him as like a top ten pitied. The skill, the skills, the skills there. I mean, it's it's because he has

that blend. He has a blend of He's full sized, he can play man or zone. Um. I won't say he's not physical. He's a bad tackle. He's a bad tackler. Um. And so when you're yeah, so if you're a guy who's six foot two hundred and you're a blend of all these things like Sauce, Gardner's a giant, super physical, will blow up your screen game Like. He's not physical like Sauce. Yeah, he's not as sticky as somebody like Derek Stingley or Trent McDuffie at Washington. He's just good. Yeah,

he's good at all of it. I'm glad you brought up Stingley. I love this. I love the phrasing from Big squeak love the name too. He says he doesn't just want to know about Derek Stingley. He says, help me understand Stingley. And I think that's a good point because most people agree he's like a top five talent in this class. But then you hear a lot of people complain about his recent tape about not having played a lot and maybe he could slide, And yeah, I

think it's a guy. It's worth trying to get a handle on where you think he is in this class. I have Gardner over him from Cincinnati. I think there's some questions about his health when he plays. He tends to play and then get hurt. I think that's a concern right now. But when you watch him play, he can cover from all levels. You put him up, you put him back. You know, he can run with anybody. The body, control the balance, he's you know, there's times

when you see him finish too. I mean you see him like the ball will be there and he's able to knock it down. He's in position. He'll even taunt. I've said this before about this guy, like though some of the will run routes on him and the ball will be not going that guy's direction and he'll still be in position broke down like, bro, you ain't getting the ball. I'm still here, you know. And it's almost like he plays with that swagger about him. But the

athletic ability, the quickness, the burst, all that's there. I would be concerned about his overall health as a player. I think for Stingley, the reason that I would still have him rated so high as potentially a top ten to twelve pick is because on some levels, at corner it's as simple as like that guy's gonna run somewhere and you have to chase him. Can he get away from you? And with Stingley, even as an eighteen year old playing against twenty two year olds in the SEC,

the answer was not even an inch. And so that much ability, it goes high the ceiling. Absolutely, the ceiling is dizzying. When he's not. He's not even twenty one yet, and he's what He played a full season as a true freshman, had both of his seasons cut short injury, COVID stuff. The scheme didn't do him any favors in twenty twenty. But when you talk like what he's been able to do to this point in his career. If he's healthy and locked in and committed. Yeah, it's crazy

how committed you think he really is. I trust that he I trust that he will be in the pros. It's hard. It's hard to blame guys in the COVID world, I mean Chason Parsons and or the free labor world of college football. Fair once your stock is established, if you decide Stingley wasn't a COVID opt out the way that Chase and Parsons were. But if those guys can opt out and come in and take over the league,

I completely trust that Derek Stingley can recommit himself. I also I don't blame people for having questions about that though, Yeah, I don't blame people for well, when you look up prototypical cornerback in the dictionary and Stingley could pop up as the picture because he has that high ceiling, he has that coverage ability, the rare athleticism, the prototypical build for a corner. And then one thing that I think is extremely rare of his tape is his ball skills.

The way he's able to catch it almost like a wide receiver, good punt returner. You could use them on special teams. If you really wanted to the ceiling is what you would draft him for at ten to twelve. I know that's what Jeff said a little bit early on ten to twelve. If that's where you wanted to take him, you're putting him in the conversation of a JC Horn and a Patrick's or Tan from last year. I would put him on the list with those two guys. Out of all three of them together, I'd put him

a solid third. But I don't have necessarily as many doubts on the fact that he could come in and play in NFL high caliber of football. It's just can he do it consistently? That's my biggest pause. I think the thing too about with with Stingley that you kind of have to know about him is that to me? Well, I was watching If you watch Pickens from George Joe Pickens, yeah, a couple of years ago. It's a really good matchup. Pickens did some good things against Stingley. A matter of fact,

Pickens did some things against him. The Auburn corner you can create. Yeah, you kind of watch if you want to go back and you could find those games, go back and watch how Pickens played against those guys and had success. So to me, I mean, I think I agree with that what everybody's staying about Stingley again, let's see how I think he'll be committed. I do worry about his health. I just think there's sometimes he's one of those guys that reminds me almost like a track

athlete did. He almost has to be perfect for him to perform conditions and I mean conditions, body conditions almost have to be perfect for him to perform. Amat says, We've talked plenty about Nakobe Dean, but what about his Georgia teammate, Channing ten Doll. Ten Doll, have you seen ten Doll? You haven't watched him, I have. I have only seen him getting ready for Bama and Georgia. I kept writing down other Georgia linebacker names, and I was like, he also can fly, yeah, and hit, and I wrote

that about like three different dudes. Jeff is absolutely right. Channing tend Yeah, he did, you did. You did a great job. I said that in the second line. Best trade is his ability to run. There's snaps where you see him carrying receivers and maintains positions. He also does a really good job when the ball goes wide and he can run it down. He can cover a lot of ground. Feel like he's a better player when it's

attacking things straight ahead. But I don't know if it's his link or how the pads sit on his shoulders, But not sure how well he can really turn. He kicks a little tight to me and there, so there might be a little stiffness into his game to that point when it comes to really having to turn. But everything downhill, he's a physical tackler, as all the Georgia linebackers are. They come with a purpose, they wrap you up.

He's used as a blitzer, attacks hard, you know, but I think he needs to have a little bit better plan when it comes to rush. And so I just kind of like I like him in that mode. I'm going to tell you exactly where I put him, but Jeff's right about him on the running aspect of things. I put him in the third round on my board. It's kind of difficult because I've found notes I made getting ready for the National title game. You will consistently see Nakobe Dean, who's standing next to him, be gone

and going to make a play. Yeah, and Channing Tenda hadn't figured out where he's gonna go yet. And part of that is that Nikobe Dean is like a upercomputer. And part of that you wonder is like, okay, our processors, how are we processing here? But dude can fly and dude can tackle. Yeah, you also got you also have quay Walker and that makes as well. That's like another you watched him yet, but everybody talks about him like Daniel Jermia I think has him the top fifty. You

can run and fly and hit. Okay, kind of like those other Georgia linebacker, right, I can focus something in cold I always focus. I can only and the scouts here used to get on me about because they were like, how do you not just watch four guys at once? I'm like, I can only watch the possible you watch two because with the All twenty two you could watch the wide view. If you're watching a car, Yeah, then when they go to the inside, you could watch it.

I've done that. I've been I've beene that with offensive lineman before. If the guy's on the other side, I kind of just take a peek at the corners doing something. I'm like, I watch the corner and then I watched the how like the tackles. I'll give him some love. Our guy, our guy, Drew Fabian its national stand here for the Cowboys. He would come into. Oh he would

rail us. We don't we don't see him as off and because of COVID, but he would come in and just laugh at us watching like one guy at a time. He's like, you, you're supposed to be able to do six of these guys at once, So like, that's why you get paid to do this, and I do it for fun. Take your candy and go on, leave me alone. Yeah, that's why Brian kept the candy jar stocked. Paul wants

to know bigger need to upgrade. If you had your choice, in a perfect world again, whatever storyline you want to imagine, you have a chance to dramatically upgrade center or guard, left guard, what would you rather? What would you rather? I guess guard because it's empty. Yeah, I'd probably say guard there too. Okay, even knowing center, I'm not dying right now, just for the fun of it. You can address that position later. Tackle. No, that's not the question. Tackle,

I'm moving Collins to guard. Okay, you did say that, and then maybe you could pick your center then if you wanted to. If you're telling me that I'm going to dramatically upgrade one and the other one in some way, shape or form is going to be passable, give me the center. I would rather have a great center than one guard. We should feel good about the whole right side of your offensive line at that point, I think

I think I agree, and it just goes. You used to say it all the time when Frederick played here. Just the ability to cut a defense in half. That's that's key. When the running the ball the way the teams run the ball nowadays, you have to cut the defense in half. If you told me I could have it, If you told me I could have an all pro center, Connor McGovern would be fine with an all pro center playing next to him, I think I said, fine, not great. I will take Linda Baum. If you tell me that

Collins could play guard. Okay, And I like Linda Baum a lot, I really really do. Yeah, I'll tell you this. The thing that the question I have and I need this. I need to ask my gang of seven about this is how you know he doesn't like him? No, no, no, every time I like him. But let me tell you let me ask him, we ask you guys, because yeah, exactly exactly, he's he's at Iowa, he's two ninety two,

big ten weight program. Is he gonna gain weight? I don't know, we'll be okay, yeah, if he's fall if he's kicking ass against the Ohio States, Michigan's and Wisconsins of the world. I mean, he's not the number one prospect in the draft because he's not an inch or two taller and ten Okay, why is there such a disparity of where this guy could be picked? I think there's two. I think there's questions because it's because you're asking the right question, Well, is he gonna gain weight?

And a draft it's rare that a center goes before the late teens, but he's so good that maybe he will. And something that Creed Humphreys should have gone in the first round, which the veriest. Absolutely. Now, some teams are gonna look at that, at that same question you asked, and it's gonna be a bigger factor to them than other teams. Other teams are gonna look at and say, you know what, even if he doesn't gain weight, Oh, he's still a bad We're gonna we see Jeff's not

wrong about the player. We see the athletic ability, the ability to tie people up that they'll they'll send you the ad guys on Twitter this morning, send me the video of him wrestling, you know, Tristan wors Now he also people keep spreading that one around worst did beat him two out of three times when they wrestled. Apparently, yeahs is like the one of the best everybody whatever, And I'm like, well, technically he did meet him, he

got to wrap his fine. I just want to know, is this guy always going to be two ninety two? That's what I wanted. If he is, what does that do to you? I don't know. Yeah, what if I say, yes, yes, he's always gonna be two ninety two, then I know what I know. Then I have to play in probably a certain way. I know that I know that maybe some of the scheme things that I might want to do with him having to play against power players, that I might have to give him a little bit more

help than normal. That's all I'm saying. I just I just have I just know if he's two ninety two, forever you okay, at twenty four, who else is on the board of course. See, now you give me a choice. Offensive lineman who are gone? Are Neil, Equano, Cross, Kenyan Green, Green's gone, Zion Johnson's gone. I'm gonna take away a good guard. Let me ask you this, Let me ask you this, Let me ask you this. The list it is. I would tell you can have Zion Johnson if you would,

would you rather have I would take Lindabam over Johnson? Okay? Um, would you take Linderbaum over Jermaine Johnson? Yes, Edge Rusher, Yes, Oh not Dean Dean, not Dean or Lloyd Dean. I would where you draw the line, Dean and Lloyd. I would draw the line. Okay, so you would take Dean and Lloyd. But we're not gonna find twenty three guys. You would take over him? No, I mean, but but that's what I'm saying. I just I just have to know. I just have to know. I have to be committed

to this player. Daxton Hill, Michigan Michigan Safety. I thought Dallas would take Daxton Heill. I've said this before. No, no, no, I thought that Dallas when they thought Linderbaum would be gone. Okay, That's what I'm saying. Jordan Davis yes, I would take him over Jordan Dane. Yeah, for sure, any of the wide receivers. Uh, maybe not the Ohio State Wilson. No, not Wilson or Williams. No, Okay, you're still good at twenty four. Look, there's a lot of ways we can

be for no Lineman up in Texas. Like you got water Burger, there's a barbecue restaurant on every corner. Just no, Just know this guy is probably going to be too ninety two his whole career, and that's okay. And if it's Travis Kelsey, or it's gonna be Jason Jason Kelsey. If it's Jason Kelsey and that's the guy you get. Hey by all means, I'm just I'm saying this are the things you need to know. It's not like he goes to school at Hobart and has a terrible weight program.

You know he's going he goes to a Big ten school that has a really good weight program. Now their strength coach a little crazy or questionable from back in the day was but that's kind of what you're dealing with. Just know that you're gonna probably be your guy. Good to know we got to six today, we're We're climbing higher every time. We're getting better at this. Actually, one of you got a question. Nice nice name, by the way, from David. It's going to lead into our third segment.

We will tackle that when we get back. Football season it is almost over, and that means tax season is here. With it comes taxiety. Filing taxes can be stressful if you choose the wrong partner. Don't let taxiety take over this tax season. Liberty Tax will help you get your largest possible refund or your money back. With more than twelve thousand tax professionals nationwide, help is always around the corner. Check out Liberty Tax, proud partner of the Dallas Cowboys.

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I think the Cowboys are going to be in line for one this year. At the end of the day, Terrell Basham probably offsets at least one of the guys you lost, and then Andy Dalton probably nets you like a five if I had to guess. So just file that away. I looked it up and I believe that to be right. So researching somebody. Actually, I love that somebody asked me about the comp pics they can expect in twenty three, which I just I love. People are always willing to just go down the road. H oh,

I'm yeah, I'm yeah, I'm comp pick. God, what do we got? I'd be good, I'd have some good ones, say you'd probably have like I would assume they'll get three or four next year, depending on who I mean. Dalton Schultz likely gets you one. Whichever receivers wind up leaving probably get you one, and those are gonna be high draft. John Williams might get you one. Connor Williams could get you one. Connor Williams is going to get some money like Goad, he'll get six seven million years,

maybe eight yeah, urse maybe yeah, jeron curse. So file that away. But I think it's it's only going to be one this year, would be my guest. Don't say that we're not letting Randy go. But what I wanted to get into was a question, like I said, from David, and this is what we were going to talk about anyway. He wants to know what position of need for the Cowboys looks to be the thinnest to you right now.

And I just kind of want to have a conversation about how you feel about the strong points and weak points of this class from what you've seen so far, just from an outsider's perspective, I gotta be honest, I don't think that the draft is top heavy. Well, we've talked about that, but I don't have a position so far that I'm watching where I don't see options that can help you in the second, third round. Like I can find you tight ends, I like I can find

your offensive lineman. I like wide receivers, I like edge guys, D tackles. I haven't seen enough linebackers. But it's you have WHYTT to first is a first round grade. Uh No, I have no first round d tackles. Okay, So see that's what I'm saying. Though, I think got a bunch

of twos to me. If you if you the thing, if you're really interested in a center, then you need to draft lend to bomb it at twenty four if you if you need a tight end, that's probably more probably a third round there, unless I don't think they would Widermeyer. I don't know from Texas A and M if he ends up in the first round, you know,

I don't have a first round tight end myself. You know, depending on what you want to do with Dalton Schultz, I think there's some I think there's some good ones though. I think odd And at Washington's good. Rucker at at Ohio State, McBride at Colorado State, I think are all pretty good options there. Um, I'm kind of thinking about, like Jeff was talking about the defensive tackle stuff. I

don't think it's initially very good. I don't have a first round defensive tackle, but I would look at Wyatt, I would look at uh mathis from from Oklahoma, Bama, Yeah, free Winfield, Yeah, Oklahoma. Uh. Logan Hall was a guy that was kind of interesting to me at Houston, but that was all kind of second round guys. You know, the safety thing stretches pretty good for you. I think the corner stretch is pretty good. You know, we'll see about the you know, unless you get one of these linebackers.

I have Clark and Chris Harris as my two kind of second round inside linebacker guys. And we talked about Tindale from Georgia, so I mean where they were there, where they need players. I don't think it's terribly bad other than the center if you had to get into the second or third round. What about edge rusher just because I mean it's it's deep. That thing's deep. Yeah, it's deep, but also kind of risky. Right, it's kind of how edge works, Like there's a lot of different

guys every year. Thing, Right, You're not gonna feel great about a second round edge guy like, hey, he can go start today. I think that would. I think guys like my j Sanders from Cincinnati. He could be probably the fourth or fifth or maybe even longer than they maybe the six or seventh guy off the board from the edge spot, and he's probably gonna be like a late second, early third. He could come in and start for you right now. I agree for I completely believe

in that. I think there are some edge rushers in this class that are going to come in and make immediate impacts. Maybe not twenty twenty five deep or anything outrageous, but I agree with Brian in that fact. I think this is a deep edge rusher class that you can get some guys not in the first round. We always like to think of that. We all kind of liked Ojilari and then he goes to the Giants, and you know, these guys go to that season, they have they have success.

I mean, you know, it's it's funny. You're like, oh, this guy's only two thirty eight or only's only two twenty nine whatever, and you're like you kind of ding him, and then he get in the game and you're and then you're like, going, hot, jeez, I didn't see that guy the right way. I kind of feel like this is the same group. I think. You know, the South Carolina kid was at Agnar heading to U E n A g h R E Nagbaria Bari. Yeah, I don't man to me. I like watched him. He was at

the senior bowled stuff like that. You watch his tape. He's got, you know, he's got some qualities to them that they're pretty good. Him Cam Thomas at San Diego State. Their tape, their tape is a lot better than probably what they performed at the Senior Bowl. I say, Ignagbari eat nag Bari, and then you've got like Arnold Ebba Kadi. Yeah, I'm curious. I'm curious. And I know Fosky from Notre Dame's another one, Drake Jackson from sc SC. We probably

talk too much about wide receivers sometimes, let's do it. Well, you just said earlier in the show that you'll need one. You well, but you only have one first round grade and that. Yeah, but I'm gonna have fifteen second round grades. Well, that's what I was That's what I was about to ask. Is I mean, we've been on this run for the last few years where they're there's four or five six receivers going in the first round and there will be oh yeah, I bet those guys are going to go

first yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Twelve first round grade. Yeah, I guess a lot of that's first round grade going on the first round. I forget, we've already talked about this being a class with fewer than normal first round grades. But even still, you're kind of painting a picture for me where starting at twenty and going to like sixty five, where we dance. That's where you're sweet spots. Oh, that's

where we dance. That's where Sky Moore and George Pickens and Chris Lave and Johan Dotson and John Mechi and Jalen Tolbert talking about Wandelle Robinson. Wandell Robinson's on the back end of that for me, but he's still there. But yeah, that's a fun gadget, little speed, quickness. Uh, this is a it's a fun watch. Alex Pierce from Cincinnati, have not yet need to watch him, need to to watch Alex and just let me let me find out. Wandale Robinson shifty and is bigger the tall he is,

he's not. You can't try to watch he's not all right. He might be the social discussion. Wandale Robinson is skinny? No, you're he is. He is one eighty five. You're right. I don't think the tight end class is deep at all. I think it's pretty thin. Brian mentioned feels like the norm at this point to me, but that's a fair assess. But go ahead. But Brian said, four names, rutgerd Oughton, Widemeyer, McBride. Those are my top four tight ends, only four i've done.

I'll throw Jake Ferguson in there as well. Likely after that. I'm not. I'm not. I don't love his tape either, but I know that it's going to be a top twenty. Yeah he again, Daniel Jeremiah, I mean his top we all look at these guys. Jefford, but he was in this likely from where Coastal Carolina, and Jake Ferguson from where Wisconsin, Wisconsin. I always like to get the school, yes, for sure, But I think outside of those five six names, I don't see anything happening until day three. That's that's

late day three. That does feel normal right where it's like there's no first rounder, there's a second rounder. Two people will two four people will put people will put Widemeyer from Texas A and M the first round at point, and I've got him at a second I'm well, I'm well aware how in love I was with Kyle Pitts. But unless it's that type of talent, I don't see the point to be honest with you like these, I mean,

Dalton Schultz, you hate tight ends. I hate overdrafting tight ends who don't know how to play the position in the NFL and are going to need like two years at minimum to get up to speed. DALTI me a freak,

or give me a jobber. Dalton Schultz was like everybody's favorite roster casualty for two years and then he put it together, which is fine for a fourth Darwin's undrafted free age for a fourth, fifth, sixth round pick, that's great, But I ain't trying to get that from my second round pick, like I, uh no, thank you, sir, no, thank you. There are other positions of need that you need to address before you really look at the tight

end room and say that is a premier player. How do you You mentioned d tackle Brian, Like, how do you feel is there a sweet spot there in terms of like I'm kind of looking at guys like with the Davis I think Davis. I mentioned matth I mentioned this because Wyatt the questions about we were on Jeff and Dane and I were on their day talking about Lyle the Texas A and m kid. You know, where do you Yeah. See, that's what I'm saying. I mean

to me, I mentioned Logan Hall. There's probably in that second round there's going to be a run on some of these defensive tackles, you know, depending, I think there's I think there's actually you guys really got me. I haven't looked at the Clemson tape, Jeff. I appreciate you sending that to me of Travis Jones DT four, but I kind of feel like they're better threes than there are ones, if that makes sense. Jordan Well really well, like DeVante White at Georgia and to Marvin Leel, I

think are nice threes. Perry On Winfrey with what he did at the Senior Boyhoma looks really good like Wyatt Hall and Winfrey. Okay, yeah, and I have Haul as an edge, but wherever you want to play him, Um like, Jordan Davis is a good one. Travis Jones is a good one. I think Fedarian Matthis at Alabama's Yeah, I think matthis is going to surprise some folk. I think there's a decent chance that maybe a D tackle goes before the Cowboys pick, and maybe not, and that maybe

five go before you pick again. That's what I think could happen maybe more than that. How do you all feel about I'm interested cornerback. We've talked a little bit about it. It's I mean, there's always going to be guys at the top of the draft because of the importance of the position, But how do you rate it later on? And then on top of that, how do you rate it for the Cowboys knowing that they just

put two guys in the pipeline last spring? I would I would keep an eye on the guys with length and I mentioned I mentioned Emerson from Mississippi State, these long rangey kind of guy. Did you watch ENTI I'm laughing because I loved I always love the little corners, like two favorite corners in this class or Trent McDuffie at Washington YEA and Roger McCreary at Auburn. Yeah, not one and two in my rankings. One thing I know

about it to watch the little guys. The Washington Huskies are going to put out some badass dbs that the Dallas Cowboys don't want to look at. That's what it always seems like that. But man, I kind of like Trent mcduffee might be the best corner in this draft. I love Elam and mcduffy. Elam from Florida. Mcduffey, I mean, yeah, Kyler Gordon's teammate's pretty good too, pretty good. Yeah, pretty

as good as me. But mcduffey just jumps off the screen because he has the movement skills, the five ten or five eleven guy where it's just like holy cow, his ability to change direction, stop at the top of routes. It's it's goofy. The Kendrick kid at Georgia. I don't know if you guys have seen him at all. Clemson receiver. Yeah, he's he's a good little player. And I'll tell you what. Another one that I was trying to kind of figure out.

Take a peek at Marcus Jones from Houston. This kid's five eight, one eighty five basically, and he's one of the best returnment in the country five nine, excuse me, one eighty five. Was watching him cover somebody this morning when I was watching a receiver. Maybe it was Calvin Austin at Memphis. He might This kid might be one of the most dynamic players in the country when you look at his overall in the way he plays, how

physical he is and stuff. Like I was wondering why one of the little quick and fast wide receivers I was watching get open, And I actually googled this morning, who's number eight at Houston. Yeah, that's Marcus Jones. He transfers from Troy to Houston. And I'll tell you what, even just Troy tape, I went and just say, I gotta look at this guy some more, big, I asked. I asked one of my gang of seven guys, and I'm like, listen, there's this five nine corner at Hughes

and the immediately went's Marcus Jones. Marcus Jones, Marcus Jones. So if you have an opportunity, can't take a peek. But I don't know, but this guy, when you watch him, he won the SMU game this year, Like SMU kicked the ball to him and he brought it back with him on the kickoff return. He's one of the most punt kickoff return He could cover on the outside, he could cover in the slot. But he's five nine, and I don't think these guys will look at him. But

it's just in the spirit of the draft show. And now let me give another guy to Kyler Gordon at a Washington you mentioned all those Washington corners. Very sneak. They have a very sneaky case for DBU. They don't get the love they've been on that one for sure. Taylor. Look we're Martin Emerson. We're getting into the weeds here. We're a month and a half in. I'm loving it. This was fun, guys. I'll see you all Thursday for sounds good for Jeff, Brian Kyle. Check about YouTube page.

I'm Dave. Check out Jefs YouTube page. Wednesday, we have a show Dan, get that plug in, fellas, thanks for listening to the Draft show. We will catch all next time. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.