Draft Show: Inside the Draft with Will McClay

episode of the Draft Show for the season. It's Brian brought us, Dane Brugler, and David Hellman with a special guest here. Guys, we're very fortunate to have the vice president, a player personnel I think, one of the great personnel men in this league. You know, a guy that we all have a lot of respect for. I know guys around the league have a lot of respect for him as well. And it's Will McClay and Will welcome to the program. Um. Excited to have you for a number

of reasons. Because we we had an opportunity this past draft with with no first round pick, there was a lot I mean, we as a group, we were having to discuss h the you know what direction could this team go? Well, you know, without that pick, how do you find a way to map out a road to get to fifty eight and then to ninety and then

too the picks after that? When you were setting your board and stuff like that and looking at your board, you obviously you went through and said, okay, we're gonna rate these guys from one to one fifty and play it like a normal draft. But was there anything different that you had to do when you're when you're making that direction, There is there anything different you say, Okay, I got to make sure that I got to cover this or I got to cover this. Without the first

round pick, it was any different. No, we addressed it the same as if we had a first round pick, because first of all, you never know what's going to happen, and then you have to look at every draft the same what we try and do, and you know, we talk about the Garret process, but we it's the same thing that we have. It's a process that you go through, you grade your players, you rate them from you know, top to the bottom, right, and to have that consistency

within the process. Yeah, Well, we were sitting there because we're trying to We're sitting there trying to map out, okay, how they're going to get to fifty eight, you know, and then and we just kept throwing names and but it is it so it's not a wider scope. It's really you just say, Okay, we're focused in on these guys. You know, it's it's the first round, guys, it's the second round guys. There was really no deviation from that

at all. There's no deviation from it. The thing that changed a little bit is, uh, you know, when you have a pick in the first round, you're trying to look to see where you're top guys or guys that you targeted, they're gonna fall pay a little bit more attention to the chatter around and whatnot. But uh, you keep it the same. Uh. You know, it's when we had the fourth pick with Zeke, well we're picking early,

you know, different level there. I think what we did during the process we kind of changed our approach as opposed to bringing in guys that we're going to be drafted in the top fifteen, we felt like we kind of scattered it around a little bit to you know, the thirty visit guys to where the coaches were, you know, who they were going to go see where we put our resources, not essentially at the top fifteen to twenty guys, but kind of filtered it through the draft at different levels.

Is that a hard conversation to have trying to evaluate you know, again, you don't pick till fifty eight, so you're trying to evaluate, like, is this worth the resources. Jonathan Abram comes to mind, a guy that y'all obviously liked a lot, and you know, you're like, this guy probably won't be there, but we still want to take

a look at him. I mean, yeah, just kind of weighing those risks because as you see the draft, the NFL draft has changed so much over the past five to eight years, where you know, when the cap changed and you don't pay rookies as much money and all that. Well, you're also seeing the value of the trade chart and that stuff. So a lot of that stuff is altered.

It's changed. It's not the way that it's not the NFL that we grew up in, where people stood where they were, they had their picks or so you don't know where things are gonna go. So Abram was anywhere in our minds from fifteen to in the second round, depending upon what people were looking for. So that was the calculated kind of risk that we took in looking at guys and when we brought them in and who we spent those resources on. What you thought about is

that maybe a trade up situation too? That if you if you think Abram might be saying, okay, he said top fifteen, but what if Abram got to forty, say, I mean and you're sitting at fifty eight, do you bring guys in thinking okay, maybe we're gonna have to maybe trade up for this guy. So I need to know that background information. Absolutely, you got to be prepared

for every situation. So again, those guys that you felt like we're first to top a second round, when we're down towards the bottom of the second let's look at some of those guys at positions of need or players we really liked and wanted to get in front of

and kind of look at it there. So when you talk about the you know, potential of trading up, well, we go through the exercise, we look at the points and you know, what do you have to give up and where we ad and the contracts in the future and all those things kind of went into putting this picture together. How much do you look at other teams

and who they bring in for thirty visits and interest? Like, how does that work in terms of the process of tracking all that information to understand Okay, well we need to get in front of this guy if or this team, if we want this player. How does that process work for you? Yeah, we look at you know, the thirty visits. I mean there's a number of different things at track where we track our you know, on our own. It's

the guys that we bring in where they're going. Uh, you know, there's some sources out there that tell you who's bringing who in for visits and you kind of you know now and analytics get involved in it too. We go through a number of different processes to go okay, systems who guys have drafted da da da da da, and say okay, here are the guys that you know kind of we target based on doing all that research.

Let me ask you something about the Okay, you don't have a first round pick, but can you walk us through though the determination of coming about making the trade for a Maury Cooper? I mean, at what point in time do you know you start off the season, you're three and four. It was it something that you saw

very early in the season. You said, man, I've got to get these coaches some help here, and you know, and then maybe your pro guys, you know, get involved, and all of a sudden you're like, Okay, this is this is how this is going to this is how it's going to go down. Because I've been with Jerry Jones when he didn't have first round picks two years

in a row. So whatever you did to make that work, congratulations because that is like, again, Stephen talked about it, you need an Act of Congress, and I've seen him agonize in draft rooms without a first round pick. I'm sure you've felt that too yourself. But talk about though you made a big commitment to go and get a Maury Cooper and to give up a first round pick, When did you make that determination that you needed to

go do something. I think we're always evaluating our roster, and so we went into last year receiver by committee. We brought these guys in and you know, there was injuries, there was you know that the plan didn't work right. And if you put your head in the sand and say, okay, we're gonna, you know, out some way rectify it. But it's also about opportunity. So we're all, you know again, just like right now, we're always looking for ways to

improve our roster. So when the situation came about and they were talking about different receivers and trade deadline was coming up, we had done our homework. We had guys that were coming out of contract or people who were trying, you know, looking at the trends they were moving guys da da da da dah. And then you look at it and then there was Amari Cooper and there's a couple of other guys that names that were being thrown around, and so we looked at how do you improve that position?

The Amar situation came up, So then we go and we look at you know, our our our scouting grades and what's coming and you know where we are there and what's the right opportunity cost to make that pick. So we make pick and then you know, we we go to a string of success and we felt like at the time when we were looking at it, is there going to be a first round receiver to the level of Amari Cooper. And then we went through everything else.

It's like, you know, if he's twenty eight or twenty nine years old, is that something that's beneficial for the long term of the team, you know, as opposed to right now. And so we try and look at all those things that way, and through the course of planning with Stephen and Jerry, when we talked about it, we sat there and we looked at it. Okay, what's the opportunity cost and you know, hey, it could be if we don't correct the ship, it could be a high

first round pick. Sure, you know, all of those things kind of went into it, and you roll the dice and you look at a twenty four year old guy who's different, you know, and you go through this draft and every draft and looking for those top ten players that will be difference makers in your organization. So if you have an opportunity to do that, you just received the benefit of a first round pick earlier rather than later. Yeah,

and Dane came in. Dane evaluates about five hundred more players for us and stuff like that, and I catch up. Dane very early said no receivers, I don't see a first round. This was very early in January. You know, he's evaluating we're going to the Senior Bowl and going into the combine and stuff in Dangels, I haven't seen a first round receiver yet, and then Dane very astutely says, there's not a receiver on that board that's even close

to a Mary Cooper. So all of a sudden, now you're sitting there now by what you just said, the justification is we had to have a receiver. We weren't going to get a receiver even if we had a top ten pick. We're not going to get the right receiver here. So so then you also look at the impact of first round receivers when they come into the NFL.

There hasn't been a great deal of talk about they have to learn the game, right, you know, guys with all the ability, and you know, everybody goes to the draft process and you got the draft nick saying oh, this guy should go here and there and he's going to be great. Yeah, that position is really hard to impact the NFL, especially the way college football is being played now. Yeah, there's no press coverage. They don't read coverage.

There's a lot of RPOs. So the windows and the landmarks and the ability to run the route tree, they're not there. So there's that development in that process too, So that's going to take two sometimes three years before you see the benefit of that pick. Was there was there some consideration, Scum, that was there some considerate consideration? And I come from a program in Green Bay and other places where you I always follow teams that had

new coaches, new general managers. And did you maybe take a little bit of advantage of the Raiders situation with Gruten being a new coach and you know, maybe some flux the general manager that you said, okay, we can I know, you give a first round pick, but they're willingness to give up a player of that quality though. I mean, that's that's pretty significant on their part, no question. But you gave up a premium pick. Yeah, so yeah,

we did. But that's but that's what we do. As you look at like right now, you know, when we were going into the free agency process, um, and we're looking at after the draft. There's new regimes. They want their people, right um. And and so you're aware of those rosters and those positions of need and the personalities of those people that are coaching or running those teams and looking at their track record and everything else, and know when to start up a conversation if it's worthy

of it. All that stuff, I totally lost my Oh no, I remember now, no, no, less, You're good. Thank you don't have that rights education and y'all, y'all have said this a couple dozen times since you traded for Amari. You know you looked at it. You know there's not a first round receiver. There's not a guy that's on his caliber. But maybe it's just me. I'm fascinated by the actual mechanics of how that works. So you gotta I mean, you got a million things going on all

the time. You're worried about your roster during the season. How does that work? I mean do you do you get your scouts on the phone? Do you? I mean, how do you go about gathering that information that you know that when Stephen and Jerry ask you for that information? It's you just plan ahead. I mean, you look ahead. The process of building the football team is three six, especially nowadays, and so you look at it, and you know, the pro side, we grade every player on every team

during the season. We look at that. We have an updated database and we make sure we know who's who. We look at the depth, we look at who they drafted, so we're prepared for that. So the situation comes about, Okay, pro guys, was our last pro grade on him? You know how much has he played this year? You look at statistical things. We have our analytics that we look

at all that stuff. And so when the different situations present themselves, now it's informant Jerry and Stephen as soon as I possibly know something so that we can start discussing and saying, Okay, how does this affect this? And you know what's our game plan. So it's kind of an ongoing thing. And I think my position here is a little bit different than most where the general managers out worried about the college and dada, da, da da,

and you don't know your team. The benefit of the way that we're structured is I'm here most of the time. I know our team, our team, what we're looking for, you know the differences, and you know what's playing in the league. Right. That's one of the hardest things for people who our lifeblood is the college draft. But if you don't know your team, or you're reliant upon the coaches or whatever, there's a different way of looking at it.

The way that we're structured. Here, I'm looking at it globally and I'm around and I can have those conversations so that the communication can be better and we're ahead of those opportunities or at least there when those opportunities come up. Yeah, I've always found the guys, the general managers that have the pro backgrounds because college. Sometimes these college general managers and nothing against these guys that are

college guys and become general managers. They don't know who's playing in the league right, they don't know who the nickel corners with the Atlanta Falcons. They don't know who

the backup right tackles at Minnesota. And sometimes though, when you're building your team, all you're thinking about is the draft, and give me more picks, Give me more picks, give me more picks, and stays saying, wait a minute, I've got to find a way to compete with my division now, and then I've got to find a way to compete with some of the other teams around the league. So to me, the guys that have the pro backgrounds are better.

And I shouldn't say this, I think are better general managers because they're better prepared to handle the situations, not because no, no, no, no, no, because I here's a guy that was on the pro side of things. I started Green bayd in college and with the pro. But I always respected the guys that were and again some of my best friends, you know, Thomas Demitrof, John Snyder,

those guys, we're all college. Snyder was a pro guy at one time and he knew the league, and I think that helps you as you trying to build your team and answer those questions. This is why you're able to make a trade, I think for a first round guy, a wide receiver, because you know him at Oakland. Okay, I've got the college reports, but now I know, wait, I've seen in the league. Yeah, I've seen this guy and what he's done. And okay, the fact he's a twenty four year old guy makes a lot of sense.

And the college. In the college side of it, you are always projecting. I think the key is having a sense of what you're projecting that player into as opposed to his upside. But you've got to project them into something. You know, it's easy to say that this guy is a great receiver and he belongs here. Well, if it doesn't fit the system, or if the personality doesn't fit

with who you're putting him into or whatever. I feel like all of those things have to go into because we're taking people from one situation putting them into another, so you better be aware of what you're putting them into. Well, let me ask you this. So it just about a mare though, and again I'm gonna get into some of

these other draft picks as well that you made. But as far as a mare, you know, I remember my experience of working with the Cowboys is that Jerry and Stephen really relied on opinions from outside and I know we still hear that. You know, oh, we talked to this guy, or we talked to this guy, we talked to coach Sabin and all that has that change over the year. Is it really more about your opinion? And

again I'm not trying to short change your opinion. I'm trying to say that, is it more about watching the tape and hav an opinion within, whether it's Alex Loomis, yourself, whoever. Is that kind of way that Joneses are now operating more. I think we're getting getting better that they trust us. And what I tell our group is so I don't know if they trusted me. That's probably why I'm doing

radio right now. No, it's it's it's evolved into uh, the you know, I keep saying the process right, the way that we do things, and not trying to slant one way or the other. I want to know. We're the lawyers. We're presenting the case, and my objective in being that lawyer is I'm presenting all the facts, good, bad, or indifferent, right, and they make the decision based off of all the information as to what's best for the organization. That's them. You know, the job that we're tasked with.

So the guys go out. We have a specific way of doing things, and as long as we do it that way, you know, the information that's coming in as a certain way, you know that we've checked all the boxes that we can. That they're getting information that is pure, it's raw and uncut, and now you make the decision based off of that. You TALKO, Go ahead, Dan, I'm sorry, Well, No, I was going to kind of swing it to this draft class and with Tristan Hill, that's what it's about

to coach. You know, it's He's really interesting because you know, on our end, we can watch it we can see what he does, what maybe he needs to work on things like that. But you know, one of the most fascinating parts is a player's journey, and you know everything goes through and with Tristan Hill, part of his journey is only starting one game last year. And you know, football character, personal character, that's something that is a big

part of every evaluation. And so how handicap there right exactly? And that's something from the outside looking in. We only have so much information and so it makes it difficult on our end. But how does that work? From you? Is it just trusting your scouts that they're doing thorough enough information when they're on campus, and trusting your coaches when they go and work out at a pro day and they're talking to the right people. How does the

character conversation? How does that work within the building? It's it's everything. It's to try and find out as much as we can about the player, especially if we you know, you can turn on the tape and you can watch it and see all the traits that you like, but now you you want to dig into who it is and we talk about football character, and so our scouts go and they're ask all the questions that everybody else asks.

And you know, each scout is in an area, they have their sources that they draw from, and you know, the coaches are going to talk to the coaches and people that they're familiar with. Again, it's about gathering all that information and then being aware that you know the people that you talk to. We tend to go talk to people that are like us, that we're comfortable with. So I know that that's upset of information I get from this guy. He probably talked to somebody that's like him.

The coach is going to talk to a coach that's like him that sees it differently. I'm going to talk to somebody else. And then you pull all that together and then you bring the kid in and if you like him, and you start to figure out who he is for your own sake, you know, now we make an organizational evaluation of who the guy is. Who do you know, do we want him? What's he all about? And take into account. Okay, twenty years old, twenty one

years old. And I always say this is if I go back to when all of us were sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, and you know, be doing and then you look at our society is a little bit different. If you're a star athlete and things happen, you know, there's a there's a certain level of whatever you want to call it, that you get away with, or a certain feeling that you have, and so we all have

to be directed. So when we brought Tristan and we felt good about who he was, and then another sign is what people do, not only what they say to you, but what they do. You take into account the things that happened at Central Florida, but now his experience with us, that's really the strongest point that I can go off of. Excuse me, it's what did you do? How how did he interact? What? You know, what was his body language? Like, uh, you know, to for coach Marinelli to tell him, hey, listen,

put on a coat. You come in here, and you represent yourself. Don't put on your best suit because it's you know that, but but but represent yourself the right way and show you want to be here. The kid did that. It's spending his twenty first birthday in a hotel room with ride um, you know, having conversations with him and sitting and asking him about those things and looking at him in his eye and going, hey, I

believe him or I don't believe him. And that's so much a part of the process, and it our evaluation of a player. It all depends on who's talking to him and what their interpretation of that conversation is to go going off that which and I know y'all turn over every stone, but kind of the flip side of that's Connor McGovern. He didn't come in. I'm you know, I'm you know, the scouts and coaches talk to him, but much less contact with him. How does that work?

And you know, Jack Garrett said it during the draft, he's a blinking light, like it's just obvious that he's so much better than your other options. What's that conversation where you're like, we haven't really had as much experience with this guy, but this just feels like a no brainer. You know, you trust your people when you don't bring

them in. And then if there's through every box that you check, if there's four people that go into that school, and there's so many varying opinions and we do you know, like you you use language like very good, good, you know, okay, but when all that stuff comes back as very good, excellent or rare in the way that we do things, and there's consistency in it. If we're all doing it the same way. We feel pretty good about that. And we spent time enough with him to know that there's

you know, he fits right into what we do. Was this a move more will about we were kind of speculating and probably wrong, but we'll see that this was a move about something for the future. Or was this the fact that this guy was just so highly rated on your board that you said, hey, we've got to trust with these tags we put on this board, and that's our guy, and we're going to go that route. Damn the position, We're going to add a guy to

the position and trying to improve this team. Even going that round, it's he was the blinking light that was there.

You go through the process, and you know, you build a draft board and there are players that are taken from your draft board, and you know, after the first round, your draft board looks a lot different than even you thought it was going to look there at the end of it, Yeah, Thanksgiving, and we went through it, and you know, when you go through the draft, it's a combination a best player available in position to need and when you went through it, Yeah, you didn't need a

cynder guard. Okay, we didn't think we needed one last year and Travis went through his deal. And if the best player is there, you're never one player away. If that player is there, and then the guys around it or at a lower level, and that might be they might be at that round value that we placed on him.

But if we valued this guy this high and we did this work, why not take that shot and that opportunity to improve your strength to be prepared for what's coming down the line, not only what can happen today, but what's going to happen from a business standpoint down the line. If I could circle back real quick about Hill, a lot of folks in the draft world and the draft Knicks, we're talking about a need for safety here. We talked about, you know, Thornhill. We talked about Adderly,

we talked about rap Rap. I felt like kind of eliminated him with the fourth seven. Some of the tape was really really good, but all those guys went behind you was there and we were kind of hearing some whispers of maybe that there was a discussion about Thornhill in the room when you went on the clock, and again you had your board set for how you were

going to do it. But talk about that a little bit though that you know it was it the Hills trades and all just so much better than Thornhill that or was there something that swung that in a way that like, no, we've got it. We've just got to stick with what we've got right here. We followed our draft board and both of those guys are there, So we talked about the scenario and as the pit got closer, we're looking at it. So within the board you have

positions evaluated as well. And so when you look at the scarcity of a three technique, right, and the value of that three technique to your defense compared to a safety and the impact that he can have on your team, and then what's behind that one safety or that defensive tackle? And you look at the league in the draft, how often have you seen that many defensive tackles go in the first round? Yeah, that's any guards your centers first round.

And you look at it and you say, well, the game is changing with the RPOs and all the different things. The way that the game is, you still value the edge rushers. You value all those guys, but as the game changes, you look at your value of players and your scheme and does that change, and then what's available before or after that player at that position. You're kind of playing that game to see, Okay, if we do this,

then what's after that? That's really part. So there's no question about even saying with all those players there you had a nice little stack. There was no no consideration of moving back at all. You said, oh, you know our guy, that's our guy right there. I mean, we're going to talk about a couple of guys that sarry, but we're gonna sit right there and make this pick, right because those guys that we liked came down to that level. So now you look at you go, okay,

do we move back. No, we don't want to lose this guy or this guy. Stay where we are after. You know, if you stay where you are, things come to you and you have an opportunity to address it, especially if your board is constructed the way that you like players, and then those players are there. This is a favorite pastime of fans and media, and you got to make the best decision and live with it. I get that, but as the years go on, do you keep an eye on wan Thornhill, maybe more so than

other prospects. Just be I mean, that likely would have been that pick if it hadn't be interested and help me, you know, T. J. Watt is obviously a name that always gets mentioned with the Cowboys for that very reason. Yeah, you watch it and you bring it up, and you take all the experiences from the past to help you make decisions or at least consider those when you make

the next decision. So we yeah, we look at I mean, I'm not gonna if we're good, look at Thorn and go, boy, he could have been ours because I feel happy with the guys that we have here. If we would have made that pick and he would have been here, we'd have been happy to have him. But you know, I can't worry about what's gone. Let's keep building this thing now.

And this might be more philosophical than anything. But in the fourth round it was interesting because you had two picks within what eight picks of each other, say, there's two to four players really like. What goes into that decision about who to take first? Is it more just who we like the best, or is it do you look at who's picking in between those picks to say, okay, well maybe this guy has a better shot of lasting. Like, how does that conversation? Yeah, it's it's okay, who's who's

before you? What if they drafted? Okay, what were their needs? What if they drafted? What's the likelihood of this happening or this happening. So you have those conversations, and you know a lot of times there's a based on the way the board is, that there might be a two to four or five point difference between the players are in the same round. So then that's you start considering position a need or best player available, and then again going down to okay, what's left? You know, what's the

best spot? You know all those things, so it all goes into it. But you're looking at okay, what's the possibility of this guy getting down to us, what's the possibility of your second choice getting down to you if we move down or whatever. Then that all all that

stuff kind of comes into play. So with Tony Pollard thing, and I'm looking back through it that you had to sweat that a little bit because then Bryce Love goes at four one twelve, Justice Hill goes at four one thirteen and now you're starting to think, oh, here comes

the run. So was there any thought about with a little bit Dane's talking about, like, Okay, can we make a small move up or we just consider and ride this thing, because again, you if Bitty Snell went ahead of you too, so all of a sudden you have three running backs. Was there any thought alike, Okay, we've got it. We're just gonna let this thing ride, or are we gonna have to make a small move Our approach at that time was to let it ride because there were other running backs that we felt like it

help us that we had in that same cluster. Yeah, there's a cluster, so you let it ride, and then you still have that other pick. I mean, you know, when you give a pick away, you lose an opportunity to add another player to your roster, and especially if there's guys there that you like, you make the decision either move up and get the guy you want or there's enough depth. And you know, that was a thing about this draft there. I felt like there was a lot of guys. Uh more, the middle of this draft

was stronger than the top part of it. So within that you still feel like you can get quality players to add to your roster with again the business side of it coming up as well as winning. Now when when we when we come back, I want to get into that if we can about the middle, middle part of this raft, because I'm going to ask you because I think it's I think we understand what the top half of the draft, or the top half of your selections were. I think I want to I understand what

the bottom half. I just want to get into that middle part when you kind of went with the two Miami kids and the Texas A and M kid. So we'll be right back with the Draft Show after a short break. We'll get into that. And I want to want to talk to Will McClay. It's been three years since his twenty sixteen draft that he had with the Cowbus. I think one of the top drafts in Dallas Cowboys history. And we'll discuss that a little bit later on. So

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Draft Show. Swboys are on the clod. We're back here in the SWBC Mortgage Studios, Ken Witskin, always presented by Miller Lite, Brian broad As, Dain Burglar, David Hellman, and our guest today, a very special guest, Will McClay coming in there and really give us a lot of knowledge and insight of what's going on, not only with again the philosophy. You know, we're talking about the picks, but how you get to the picks. I think this is

always fascinating stuff. Okay, uh well, I think this draft for you and because you made moves, it was really fun to watch you keep backing up, backing up because you you know, you're thinking, Okay, how can I get more picks? We were we were we were thinking as we were watching, it's like, Okay, he's trying to set himself up to where he doesn't maybe have to fight for guys. We were thinking, oh, maybe these picks are

going to come in the seventh round or so. But you manage you pulled, you know, you pulled six round picks and stuff like that and really helped your team. When you looked at you said the draft was very good in the middle though, what the going into going into it though, when you did make the selections, you know, with with Mike Jackson and then with Joe Jackson and then with Donovan Wilson, kind of walk us through how

you came to those particular players. Again, you know, it's you're helping you you're helping your your your defensive line, but you're also kind of helping you know, your secondary with the safety in the corner as well. Yeah, I think that, you know, as we went down there was

a number of players on the defensive side. You know, we do this analytics deal and you talk about the strength of the draft and this draft based on how we did it from I think we go from two thousand and seven to the current draft looking at information and say where's the strength. Well, defensive ends, defensive tackles was higher than some other positions. So we felt like, okay, you addressed a couple of things early. Now as we go down, where's our board? Where do we need help?

So when we picked Mike Jackson, it's you know, we have contracts coming up. You can never have enough corners. O, there's a profile that you're looking for and Mike Jackson fit that. And Mike was one of the guys that we had the coaches go look at because of the parameters. Now we studied the tape, we gave him a grade. We like them from the scouting side based on what the coaches are looking for, what we're looking to putting

this system. Now, Chris Rashard, go out and spend time with him, ride go out and spend time with them so that we'll find out if you know, the stuff was there that we wanted. So we picked Mike a big long corner inside outside last two years playing at Miami starting and then there are times on the tape where you watched him eliminate a guy, you know, because

of those physical traits. So now you start looking and going okay, and we understand, you know how Byron Jones had his greatest year with this Chris Rashard coaching him, and he liked those traits and he knows how to coach those traits and get the max, you know, get the max out of that. So that was that, and then you know, we all know we've we've piece mailed, piecemeil this thing together for several years on the defensive line and not made a lot of investment from a

draft pick standpoint in it. And so if there's depth there and there's quality players that play the way we like, why not take that opportunity to get them. So when we got to Joe Jackson, Joe is your classic guy that we have had great success with because they play like Rod wants to play, and they have those physical traits. Um, so he was there. And then you go to the safety we were looking for, and people are talking about

safety for the Cowboys. Number one thing is uh, I think what started that is Earl Earl Thomas wanting to be here when there was the value might talk about that. Yeahs out there, you know, and we all didn't. You know, Hey, it's it's the NFL, it's twenty four to seven, and whatever's news. Somebody's gonna put it on somewhere. Thank you for it, you know, and we you know, we derive

content and conversation from that. So then, Okay, this guy didn't play great according to Pro Football focused, we realize the strengths and weaknesses of our player. I think that we have a great deal of of high regard for where we think Xavier Woods can go and all of those traits and all those things. We won eleven twelve. However, many games we won last year with Jeff Heath playing for us. Sure, we want to improve that, but hey, we feel like we can be okay there. That's why

we address the defensive line. If you look at if the line plays good, then the other pieces around it are going to play well also. So when it come to Dunavan, when it came to Dunovan Wilson, he has box safety traits we have, you know, at the right value. Let's give this kid an opportunity to come in and see what he can contribute because we like the physical things that he does. Now you know, now it's he's gonna come and have to fight in battle. But we

took care of that position and addressed it. In free agency. We saw some things from a guy George Iloka that gives us some of that presence to battle with the guys that we have. We drafted Cavon Fraser. Cavon was hurt a little bit last year. Wasn't the same guy battled through. They're still promised there with Jeff Heath has performed well and he does his things well too, So let's add somebody else to that mix. Sure, Hey, survival

of the fittest. I keep saying, competition brings out the best to everybody, Darwinism as you said the radio, right, Yeah, yeah, I mean, and it's survival of the fittest and if guys come in and compete and make this thing strong, and that's what we feel like Donovan can do too.

I want to be careful not to be too specific here because I don't want to get you into a blog post somewhere on the internet, but mentioning that, you know, I think this is probably as deep as the Cowboys roster has been in the six years I've been I'm covering the team. Y'all are thrilled with your draft class, if it's possible, it sounds like you might be more thrilled with your undrafted class, like seven guys that y'all

had grades on or something like that. Yea, with all that depth, with all that competition, Is it possible maybe you're more aggressive trying to use pieces of your current roster to upgrade, whether it's trading player for player, player for pick. Is that y'all haven't really done that in past years. Is it's something you're more interested given how strong your roster is right now. I mean, you don't

want to give anything away. We want we feel stronger about our depth, and so you want to stay strong about you know, with your depth. If you move something, you better be getting something for it. And I think that all the possibilities are there because we feel like we have depth than we are strong. When you're you know, you've got a few more holes, it's a little harder to you know, kind of put some things out there.

But we love the players that we have here, that we've drafted before, that we signed before, and then you add these guys in now we get to get into a competitive situation if somebody needs something. We have resources and we have things that we might be able to look at improving position A, position B. But we're always looking at that. This is kind of more of an

overarching thing. But you know, I know, as an evaluator and evaluate these players, I know one of the most important thing for me is self evaluation and looking back at me and what did I get right, what do I get wrong? And understanding, you know, take a temperature of the NFL and understanding how the game evolves and what fits now compared to in the past. So I'm just kind of interested with you. You know, you've been

personnel with the Cowboys were by a decade. Now. What do you think is the biggest difference between Will McClay two two thousand and nine and Will McClay today. Is there any big difference for you that you know, you've you know, learned along the way, you've evolved as an evaluator.

What do you think is the biggest difference from your perspective? UM, I would say the biggest difference is, um being aware of how the game has played and what other people do when you when you're just evaluating talent, when you're evaluating, Okay, this guy can do this, this guy can do that. UM. I think I've gotten better as an evaluator to look at you know, there's cause and causation. Why is this guy good at this? Or what players are similar you know,

and and and how they fit. I think I've gotten better at that, just as opposed to you know, great, no, this guy's big, fast, he should be done. Well, what's he missing? You know, what are his strengths, what are his weaknesses and how do they fit? Uh? And and and then I've gotten better Uh understand ending the impact of character over physical ability. Um, you know you got to have the physical ability to do that. But when I say character, it's the football character. Again, everybody's a

little bit off here or there or whatever. I mean, all of us, But it's how do they fit into what you're you know, what you're projecting to putting them into culture and culture and yeah, it's it's you know, we do stuff with personality tests from the guys coming in, but we're also aware of the personalities that we're putting them with, right, you know when we take those things into consideration, and at the end of the day, we

want guys to make plays to win football games. But now, how is it all going to drive Because you're putting a team together. It's not a golf match or a tennis deal, which one on one, it's how does it interact with the whole team? Well, you know, David brought up the fact that you know about the the undrafted

free agencies signed. But again I'll focus just a little bit on the On the end of the draft with with Webber the pick from a house state, there's some people saying, well, wait a minute, why are they drafting two running backs, and we talked about poll earlier what

he could potentially bring to the organization. But the Webber pick was add another one of those where you look at your board and you're like going, Okay, I'm here in the end of this draft, and give me a guy that's got some trades, give me a guy that I've got a high grade on get you know. I mean again, was that like we've talked about with McGovern, the blinking light that hey, yeah, let's add another guy here.

It's it's more about I mean, yeah, you got one of the best running backs in the National Football League. You added a unique piece with Pollard. But this kid probably was just too good to pass up at that time, wasn't it. Yeah, he was too good to pass up.

And one of the goals we had in the draft was improving the running back room if we could, you know, and there's you know, in the NFL now, there's a lot of kids that play in contribute that to get drafted in the fourth, fifth, sixth round free agent the running back position, you always have that veteran out there

that can come in and can fill a role. And so when we look at the running back room, you look at the ability to play on first and second down, the ability to play on third down, and the ability to play on fourth down. So there is a player there that has a similar running style, and whether that Zeke does, he kind of learned some of the things

under him. You watch tape and there's certain moves and certain things where you go, boy, that's a lot like Zeke, And so you know, adding him added depth to that position group and youthful depth to that position group because the running back you know, life shelf for the most part, unless you're rare like Zeke, it normally lasts for two to three years, and you're always trying to find that guy. It's the guy who can perform on special teams or

what his role is. So the more options that we have there, the better we can construct this roster to fit all those things you need to do. When you got a forty six man roster, you're fifty three, all that stuff. Don't be diplomatic. We know you love all these guys because you drafted him. Who's your pet cat in this class? My pet cat is all of them. Now. I mean there are guys that like when when I

went to the Senior Bowl, Um and we were watching guys. Uh, Tony Pollard stood out because when you watch you know, when I watched him, I was like, boy, there's something different about this dude. And you know, there was a play in the Senior Bowl game where in the game now watching him a practice different, No, there was a play where he's running between the tackles and linebacker decletes him and you know, he hits him from the side

and he sends him about five yards. That bowl. Well, two plays later he runs the ball, same play and that linebackers there and he runs right through him, right and you know, we started talking about going. You know, this kid's fearless. You know, how do you run back kicks and do some of the things in lineup? It's a lot. I just liked the explosiveness in his play and then there's just a natural temperament that you see because I mean, he got whacked and then he came

back and gave it to that same guy. And thing, you know, he never complained about his role at Memphis. They have three running backs and all those things. So there's something about the character that kid that showed up on tape and then we brought him in here and it reinforced that what I saw on tape, I was gonna go ahead. Da. I'm fascinating by that. We talked about it during the draft. Is you know, the layman, the average fan that turns on the draft on Thursday

and maybe they're not paying close attention. You know, there's there's seven hundred guys that they got a list of, like you know, there's twenty safeties that they want you to draft. But in reality, you'll have a few dozen names that you really like. And I mean you're at the mercy of what these other teams want to do. But I'm fascinated by the you know, how do you get to that point where you know, these are kind of the names we've gotta like, these are the guys

we love. And how how soon before the draft you kind of have that idea in mind. I mean, we go through the process for three weeks with meetings to set the board, and we talk about guys and then we put together our final board and if they're on the board, ninety nine percent of them we'd love them. Because they're on the board, there's something about them that

they can contribute. Now you have your you still but you see Tony Pollard at the Senior Bowl and you're like, oh, this guy, right, I mean, and yeah, I'm gonna go through the whole process of Okay, here's everybody's opinion. They know more than I do. This is just what I see. But you go through there's certain guys that you like, things about them that you think can add a value to your team. That so they're a little bit above.

And every scout has a pet cat. All of our area guys, we tell them they're the GM of their area. They're going to go on the room and you know, they might have a second or a third round grade on a guy as an individual scout. Now, everybody else goes around, opinions might be different, but that scout's gonna go that's my pet cat, that's my guy, and you listen to all that um. But but yeah, it's it's as we come down and you go down the draft, Okay,

who's available? Who do we really like? What positions? That's all a part of the conversation and speaking to that of having guys on that board, how do you guys do It's amazing the undrafted free agents for years. I give Chris Hall a lot of credit for when I was working with you guys over on that side. Chris always did a great job of maintaining the integrity of the board. He never allowed scouts to drop guys and stuff like that. Keep the board the way it is.

But you guys, it's still the same way where you go after guys first, on those undrafted guys, I mean the recruiting and all that with those tags that are still draftable tags, right, yes, yeah, I mean you know the first place you start. Yeah, that's the first place we start. We put a draftable grade on a guy, and for each grade there's a definition and expectation of that round, and so we go through the process. Okay, we feel like this guy's a fifth round player for us.

He's a you know, a backup who could develop into a potential role player, potential starter, contribute on teams. Okay, these are the guys that are that. So we have a vision of that role and they're up there. So the draft goes. It's our board. Maybe guys didn't see them that way, but those are our other blinking lights

when you start the free agent process. And again when you talk about the depth of this draft, we had maybe a few more names on the board this year because the depth of the draft, you felt like there were three to four to five players a position that could potentially fill that role from an expectation projection standpoint. Now they get here, we'll see where they are. But there are guys that had the physical traits and all those things to belong on that board. Yeah. Well, Dame

was talking about when we first started the process. He said, hey, you got to watch all these Toledo wide receivers. Yeah, and then one of the first ones he watch this John Bay Johnson play Yeah, and he goes, they got a lot of good ones, but watch this kid play speed speeds exactly. He was talking about that, And this was very early in the process. And you did, you go through and then you continually add guys. I don't

know how you do it. I mean, it's amazing to me that with the roster depth that you do have, that you're able to add as many quality but I mean high at the kid. I talked to some teams around the way. How did y'all get high? A Yeah, that's what I doesn't make sense to him. I talked to I talked to probably five teams that said there were I think there were. They said, there were twelve teams maybe more that were battling for him, and here, you guys, you end up with him with the deepest

though lining the league. Yeah, exactly, Well how does that? I mean, it's part of the you know, the kid and having the conversation. It's recruiting him, you know, it's recruiting him. Hey, you're not gonna get drafted. That's a hard thing to say to. My guys were told me he should have been drafted. Yeah. Every one of my guys were saying, wha wait, wait, that guy went undrafted. And I started four years at Clemson, you went two

national championships and you're not drafted. And again that's where everybody's boards a little bit different. But then we have you know, we we recruited him. You know, he got on the phone with Mark Colombo. We addressed our process and getting free agents, and he was a guy that was there that we're like, look, we got to add that depth. And it just kind of it happened that way. And it's from the work of the college scouts that

established the relationship. When they go in the school, uh, you know, it's the contact that they have to communicate with the player to tell them about our situation. It's our coaches being on the phone, and it's a guy wanting to be a cowboy. At the end of the day, you signed a bully too in that Brandon Night. Oh yeah, that got Indiana as a bully. Oh yes, I mean I watched him play and he's playing Michigan those people,

and he's bullying those guys. And again those the guys that are all getting drafted, you know, the win of Ches and the Garys and those guys, and that guy's a bully. Yeah, there was a big that was a big part of the deal. It's like, okay, we send our scouts out to you to get a second look.

He didn't go to the combine, right, you show up the kids pissed off that he didn't go to the combine, and that nature of who he is on the field that showed up in his natural personality, and we're like, here's a guy that can compete as a guard and a tackle, right, and there's not there's not enough offensive linemen to go around to thirty two teams, uh and and and and play good football if you lose one.

So we feel fortunate that you know, our processes. We've invested in them, and then there's guys that want to come here and be a part of it because of the way our offensive line has thought of and so many guys want to be a part of that and compete to be a part of it. Well, the second half of preseason games are gonna be fun to watch because what they've done is they're gonna be able to

evaluate their young quarterbacks. They'll be able to evaluate their young running backs because you have legitimate offensive lineman that can freaking play and block people, and now you get a full evaluate to your team. That's the right way to go. Yeah, it's always been a big part to me because Brian, like you, you know, we go to those preseason games. I call them on the radio. Well I'm hoping, you know, I'm gonna see players out there, but I will see the quarterback get killed. I want

to be able to evaluate the game. Yeah, you go to that third and that fourth preseason game. How can I evaluate a position that's very valuable to us, like the quarterback position. Right, he's on his back half the time running a running back or whatever. And then you know it's just you gotta have depth in the offensive

and defensive line. You look at the Washington Redskins last year and I applaud them even though they're the hated enemy, and the great Bill Callahan for bringing guys in on Tuesday and at least being able to play a good product out there and play a game. We don't want to be in that situation. And then also, you know, we talk about draft capital and everything else, and you brought it up if you're a strong team, Uh, people are gonna need things. And then that's also another way

that you can continue to strengthen your team. Well, thanks, you're going to get bullies. It's hard glumbos. The line that it's not I don't want to put words in your mouth or anybody's mouth. Is it too simplistic, Like you get on the phone with this kid and say, hey, come be in our room for you know, during training camp. Even if you don't get a roster spot, if you do good work with the Cowboys line, that's going to carry weight around the league. I mean is that? I mean?

I think that the players perceived that our job and recruiting was going, Look, here's the opportunity you're gonna have to compete. Yeah, and you want a kid that you're gonna say, hey, we got so, you know so, so and so and so. Uh, But it's about competition. Do you want to come and have the opportunity to be part of the best. And the guys that say yeah, I'm you know, and they you know, Mitch Hyatt and and and and other guys had other opportunities to go

other places. They wanted to come here and compete. That's the difference between me and top level football players. I'm like, I want to go where it's the easiest to get on a team, and they're like, no, screw that, I want to go against the best. How early do those conversations start? Like in the draft at fifth, sixth round and we just seventh, probably started about the fifth round. But what we do is, you know, we go through

and again our college scouts. Once we set the board and every after every position group, at the end of the day, we meet and we sequenced the PFA's Okay, we start to formulate our plan there. And then what we did was a week before is we got the scouts together at their cross check position. They're like, let's watch the six seventh round guys, the PFA's and let's sequence them the way that we like them, with the

coach input and the scout input. So there was a clearer plan as to who we liked and didn't like or what level to kind of and you know, if that guy fell, we're on top of them. So we started recruiting them prior to the draft. Just let them know, hey, you know we're yet you know, da da da da dah, just to kind of get a feel for him and let them hear voice and associate the Cowboys. You know, my guess is my guests, just my guests, and maybe

you'll confirm it. I think you added if you could draft abill grade, you added fifteen guys probably off your board, off your draft board if you had to guess if you can include your draft and guys would draft will grade. So think about that, guys, that doesn't happen very often and either that was already play, either they're gonna be really right or where we're like. But no, if you I have never heard a team add fifteen players off their draft board that do it to a roster, think

I mean that is that that is some work. I'm always excited for camp, but extra shows this year, all right, with the last few minutes we have here, hopefully keep a little extra two minutes. Maybe I want to get into we always we hate grade and drafts. I hate, I hate. I don't like it. I know Dane hates it when he's asked to do stuff. You know, tell me what's happening in three year Like I say, I had an experience in Philadelphi where Scout told me we had the worst draft in NFL history and for the

eight picks made the Pro Bowl four years later. So

I don't I'm not going to grade drafts. I want to get your thoughts though about the twenty and sixteen draft, because we're doing this thing on Dallas Cowboys dot com about the great drafts and the history of this franchise, and it goes back to the draft with the Ezekiel Elliot draft, the Jalen Smith draft, who I was dead ash wrong about though Molie Collins, Anthony Brown, Charles Tapper, Dak Prescott, Cabon Frazier, and Darius Jackson that that right there in itself as a hall and then I kind

of want to get into it just a little bit about the process. But you said you had the early pick with Zeke And was it all along? Was the thought about there trying to help Tony Romo or was it a situation you're like, this is like a generational player, a once in a lifetime kind of guy. What was

the thought about drafting Ezekiel Elliott that early in that draft. Well, as you know, we started this deal, talk about the draft and people saying you needed this and that, and it was as we put you know, went into the year, you're thinking, Okay, there's some good quarterbacks in this draft. At some point in time, you have to get a

replacement for Tony. So you know, we looked at all the quarterbacks we had went and worked all those guys out, looking at the quarterback position, looking at the corners, looking at the running backs. You know, all those guys. Joey Bosa was in that draft, and you know, as picks came, we had our feelings about those guys. But as picks came, we boy, there's Dallas Cowboy football is running the football

and you know, having an impact player there. We had just gone through the deal where people said, you know you kind of the the devaluing of the running back position because DeMarco had performed well. We decided to let him go with the money got outrageous. So there was Zeke there and that was the pick number four. Checked all the boxes. We were good there, and you know,

we got a great player and a generational player. We think from that um and then as you go down the draft again, there was that sometimes you'd rather be lucky than good. Uh, you know, there was that opportunity to uh, you know, we tried to get you know, trade for Paxton, and you know, then there was the Connor Cook talking Dad da da. And then you get into the fourth round there's a guy that we all loved that came from a system that wasn't NFL friendly,

so to speak. When you're drafting a quarterback, it's just like the Daniel Jones thing. Oh well, he's been in the Cutcliff system, he's id the mic, he's call plays in the huddle, checked all the boxes. Well, we're very fortunate to get a guy in the fourth round that's our quarterback today and he's got more wins and the guys that were picked higher than him. Yeah, is there. I mean, I'm not trying to throw shade like that's unbelievable. Yeah,

better to be lucky, than good sometime. But is there something to learn from that or you just chalk it up to the practicability of the draft. It's the draft, guys, and at the end of the day, we're so many of us are, especially that aren't in our side of it that get all the information. You're watching clips on YouTube or you're doing stuff and you don't get all the information on who the guy is. Now we're gonna have our When we pick a player, we're trying to

get the highest return on the lowest investment. So there are things that you go through that checklist and maybe all of them aren't there. So there's the value of the player that you place on there. Then you get him in your building and he turns out to be more than what you expected him to be because now you got to really dig under the hood. So the lesson from that is, hey, you know, that's what we're getting better at now is understanding the character and who

the guy is. But you don't know until you get him in the building. Do you have time to just sort of let that take your breath away. Well, I mean, like, I mean, it's kind of crazy when you think about it, and you know, y'all tried to trade for Lynch. You wanted Connor Cook, and Oakland took him out from under you, and then you wind up with Dak Prescott. I mean, like I said, it can kind of blow your mind if you stop and linger on it. Yeah, but it also makes us realize that we're not as good as

we think we are in this opinionated business. You got to get him in your building and all that stuff, and you can discount of guy's heart and determination and all that other stuff. I think you learn those things, but you don't really know it until you get him in your building. He might have been a great leader in Mississippi State where everything was perfect. So but you get him under your building and you go, that's truly who the guy is. Yeah, it's Jalen Smith that way.

Did we did we on our side or my side? Did we? Did I misevaluate what Jalen Smith's heart was, his his passion? I think I think we all did. I mean, you know, I don't know if you did well drafted him thirty fourth, well you know what's in there. But there's also been those players that you know, it was the kid, the great running back from South Carolina that San Francisco took early, you know, and there was

these teams that do this and yeah they did. Yeah, but because for whatever reason, be it physically or whatever, that they don't make it. Well, we were sure that, you know, there's a possibility of the kid coming back. And we didn't know if he was going to be that player that we graded high, you know, from his college tape. But there was something there and we roll the dice and we got a great return at that you would have had to take if he was healthy,

you'd have had to taken him when you took Zeke. Absolutely, Yeah, he's the top eight. I don't think I don't think Will will mind me sharing this story. It's it stands out to me big time. Um, I guess it was twenty seventeen. This is the longest you've gone being nice to me. I appreciate that. Um, it's twenty seventeen. You know. We training camps over Jalen. He's out there. He's got like ten pounds of tape on his leg. Everybody's analyzing the way he runs. He kind of he doesn't look

totally fluid yet. And he made his preseason debut against the Colts and I'm I'm down on the sideline anyway, I take pictures, I talk to people. Blah blah blah. Will's down there, which is not to like you're not down there every Yeah, that's not normal. And I'm like, you know, and he's like fixated on Jalen. I'm like pretty big night, and he's like, hold onto your butt like this, yeah, this is this is the guy we

thought we were getting. Like he was like the just wait, just wait for John Smith and low and behold yeah, and to be as great as he was in college. There's the physical traits that he already had, but you know, there was something about him there and then that's what helped him get through that whole injury deal and to fight back. And he wanted to be the best and wants to be one of the best. And you know, you know there's a you see our guys walk around

with the shirt driven. He was driven to come back from that injury. That's what he's doing now. You know when you look back at that though, and then grabbing like Anthony Brown when you did, I mean, that's incredible that the way I mean the sixth I know that was one of the guys when we were doing the show, we were all like, you know, best available. Dane kept going best availble best. Well, Anthony Brown, somebody's got to

take this. Anthy Brown. He runs too well. You watch the produe tape, He's just this and this, and then you know, you have to be proud about those picks that you know that you make in the in the sixth round, seventh round, and all sudden, I mean, yeah, you look just like that turn out. Well, it's like we talked about, you know, this draft, well you look at it when you go down on we have these players,

if we have them evaluated the right way. We had Anthony evaluated higher than they're in the people picked who they picked. And then there he was right there and I got you know, hey, he runs really well. There are some there were some issues, are some things that he didn't do well in college, but we felt like they were correctable and not terminal. And when you can run like that and the type of kid that he is,

you figured that's the right opportunity. And you know, it's panned out well, and he's been through a couple of different coaches and he's continued to grow. And I think Christopher Shard has helped him too. Do you know where he's going to continue to get better? Go ahead day. I've never thought to ask you this. I mean you you help find these guys. You're a guiding voice in that discussion. What's your role, if any, in these financial decisions that come now that these guys are coming up

on their next contracts. My role is to say what their value is, what other players in the league are like. I don't get into the numbers. Hey, thank goodness, because I couldn't do that because the way contracts are now. Yeah, I'm chief for the most part, so it would be hard for me to kind of wrap wrap my arms around the total package. I think we do a great job with that in the front office, led by Stephen,

to figure that out and figure out how to do contracts. Um. But I just want to say, this is where this guy is valued, this is how he is and you know the things that I can do from a personnel side and a team building side to say how does it affect this, this and this and throw that two cents in? Well, Well, well, thank you so much for spending time with us. It was awesome to get such a perspective. Actually, a bonus for us with you being

here today. Dane Brugo, this is your last last Draft show. Yeah, I refuse to believe that. Yeah, Dane's moving one family moving on to Ohio. I've been with us the last five years and doing this stuff, so honor not only have a great personnel man, a guy that gets growing up, here's a personnel man with us here. We appreciate you being such a part of the Draft show. Thank Ohio. Are you sure you want to move to Ohio? Have you seen the weather living? He's an Ohio kids family state. Yeah,

go out hang out with my buddy John Dorsey up there. Yeah, we're getting you. We're getting you back for the next draft. Don't even worry about it. Yeah, hopefully hopefully It's not goodbye, just kind of see you soon. Okay, I like that, But thank you for all you das. Cowboys Nation has been great to me and it's been an awesome being part of this, learning a lot from you guys, and it's been a lot of fun. So it's uh something that leave with. It's a little bitter sweet, but excited

for the next show. We'll find you down the road somewhere. Absolutely Senior Bowl combine. We'll bring it back for the j I guess still got to cook crawfish for everybody here. I do I wanted. I got my Houston guy over here and lead some crawfish way. Well okay, well that's all the time we have for the Draft Show. Again. Thanks to Will McClay, vice President Player Personnel with the Cowboys for spending a lot of his time with as a busy man, but he wants to be a part

of this and we really do appreciate that. So that's it for the Draft Show for two thousand and nineteen. Thanks everybody out there and made this possible, and we will see you next January as we start the journey or the bye week. Don't forget about the bye week exactly. Well, we'll see you. We'll see you here real soon though. Thanks for everybody out there. Take care. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.