Draft Show: How Good Is This Running Back Class?

with Old Dame Brugler myself. Brian brought us here as I mentioned, Dame Brugler to my right, joining us from one oh five three The Fan, the Ben and Skin Show. One of our scouting buddies, though he puts in the work. Kevin kat Turner, welcome again, my friend. Yeah, thanks for having me. And every once in a while, Dave Hellman deserves a good week off, right. He's down there hanging out with the Saints down there at Motagra Hardian he is partying them up. So what we'll do, we'll do

our very best here today. Uh God, it just seems like these weeks are flying by. We'll be an indie before we know that. Being an indie at the end of the month and looking forward to that. Last week, we went through a little bit of the some of the snubs and guys that should have been should have you know, maybe had some considerations from National Scouting Group. We kind of talked about those guys and why they potentially got snub But it looks like a pretty good

combine list. So we're excited. The draft show will be there. We will have shows. Uh, let's see it Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday from uh from the Convention Center there in Indy with all the players and coaches and general managin stuff. So we look forward to doing that today though, I'm going to do a couple of different things. Uh. I want to get in Dane. Your fumble list came out for running backs. Yeah, my annual annual fund Fumble list. Yeah,

the fumble rates for all these college prospects. I went. I did the top thirty three, top thirty three running backs in the class, all the guys invited, the combine a few extras, but yeah, it's something I do every year at this time. UH, and it's just interesting look at how often these guys fumbled. Uh. And it's something that you know, we care about interceptions for quarterbacks, right, well, you know we should care as much for running backs

and the fumbles. And it's not a you know, a direct, you know way to say how they're going to be in at the next level, but it's a good view of their ball security. How do you view these running backs in this straft so far from what you've seen? I mean, to me, there's the first tier, which is Barkley and then Jones and what do you have them? Yeah, I mean and then I mean Jones. I watched him again on Saturday second viewing and felt better about him, a lot better about him with guys, I need to

watch twenty sixteen. I mean, is that something that I need to do for guys got banged up into Yeah, he was definitely banged up this year. I mean the Old Miss game. This year he was outstanding. He had a he had a three or four game where he was looked like he was back to twenty sixteen for him. But yeah, he was better as a sophomore. I have Carrie on Johnson as my RB three. I love it now. See that's why I'm I'm I'm dancing right with you there and again we talked about him and we talked

about guys. Yeah, I'm with you guys too, because I've I've got Barkley number one, Jones number two, and then I've got guys and Johnson back to back. Yeah, in my overall board. So I'm right there with you. I don't think there's much separation. Yeah, I tell you what, I'm impressed if you want to go get a running back in this draft. You know, I feel like you could kind of go down through this thing. I mean I even go down as far as with you know,

when Michelle Nick Chubb. We've seen what we saw with Penny. I mean, there's there's depth at this draft, you know, throughout the draft. I just think that every one of these guys that I've looked at, I don't feel terrible about drafting any of them. I Mean there's sometimes you look at backs and you're kind of like going, nah, you know, not that guy. I know, I mean, why why that guy? But this group, I feel like that if you took any one of these guys, you would

be pretty pretty good. Uh, you know, you'd have a good chance to help in your team. And that's why I've said, unless you know you're a team like the Cowboys of the Jaguars last two years, who just need that plug and play running back, right, The Cowboys took Zeke, the Jags took four Nett you know where you know it's kind of the last piece or you know something that could really help the offense. You know, a team like the Browns, but they need if so many need

areas up and down the roster. That's why I'm not taking Barkley at one or four. I'm gonna wait until thirty three or thirty five. Maybe trade use that pick thirty three package of fourth and go up in the late first round to get your running back, whether that's Ronald with the USC running back, the Auburn running back, that l is you running back, you know, whatever one you want. So, yeah, it's the Barkley debate about running back and how early he should go. It's definitely a

big part of this draft. I feel like we did this every year and then the last two years running back goes at pick four or it kind of changes, you know, dynamic. Yeah, And I want to mention this real quick too, because I was reviewing your your fumble list. If you're about to get into it, no, no, go ahead.

I was reviewing your fumble list yesterday, and I couldn't help, but notice, you know, two of the Georgia running backs right there, one you had blow average and then near the bottom effects second worse than the entire list Sony Michelle. And immediately thought to the semifinal game where he had that huge fumble in the fourth quarter against Oklahoma that nearly costs him the game. Sure, right, And with these fumble lists, you know, I go back to their every

fumble they had in their career. Uh, you know, I go back and watch it. Make sure it wasn't like a cheap fumble like you know, like a mesh right, uh, miscommunication with the quarterback or something like that. So make sure it was a legit fumble. And you know, go back and adam up through their career and make sure they're all offense or not. I don't count special teams fumble, so punt return, kick return, that kind of thing, just to keep everyone on the same level playing field, so offensive,

and they are fumbles they had throughout their career. And with Sony Michelle, you know, you go back and look, and he only had two this year. So I think if you're gonna look at a positive. He had the second well, he had the second worst fumble rate among the thirty three backs that I looked at, but the improvement in right this season. Though. Over his career, he fumbled once every fifty four offensive touches, which is terrible.

It's almost like once every two games or so. Sure, but when you look at it by year by year, he had five as a sophomore, three as a junior, two as a senior. So you know, it got a little bit better every year. And that's something good to see, and that's something that is proper context when you talk about this. Mark Walton, Miami running back, for example, he didn't fumble the last two years, but he has a very low fumble rate or high fumble rate, because he

fumbled five times as a freshman. So that puts that number in the red flag category. So but nonetheless, I mean, these fumbles, the fumble rates are interesting. I kind of break it up into tiers. And so the top tier guys like Darryl Williams from LSU, right, you fumbled once every three hundred and fifty nine times he touched the ball, had only one fumble in college. Let me ask you, you guys this though, with these backs and what you've seen the fumble rate, and I want to get into

every one of these guys, I really really do. I want to kind of go through that. But the running style we've seen from some of these backs men as a physical group of runners. If you asked me the way that the way that day, you know, and sometimes running style has a way of of kind of uh, you know, you get the ball a lot, you're physical runner, you're spinning, you're trying to finish, You're trying to run over people. I think you know it. Fumbles do worry me.

Fumbles do worry me. And especially you know with the way in this day and age of any games you play, especially in the NFL, the way turnovers dictate sometimes how you play. But let's go through who who you? Who you got is your as your guys there, Dane if you couldn't and by the way, this is something you tweeted out right, but if they follow your link, yeah

on DP Brewer. Uh. If you want to get this list and go down through it, well, several of the players we talked about at the top, Ronald Jones, Saquon Barkley, carry On Johnson, they're all in the elite category, Okay. I think anything above, you know, like one seventy five or so is So if you're fumbling once every one hundred and seventy five offensive touches, that's the elite category. Okay. On the number that the threshold numbers, one seventy five,

that for elite category category, right. I think average is about one hundred and twenty five around there. So as long as you hit that one twenty five number, you're okay. They were about a dozen backs in this draft that hit that, but the elite category, Darl Darryl Williams as a top LSU running back fumbled once. Ronald Jones is up there. He's at two o seven, which is a great number and really encouraging for a guy who's not

the biggest guy. I mean, he's probably about two hundred and five pounds and a lot of you know what. A finisher though, Mike up the gut runs yea, oh god, yeah, yeah, he takes some contact there. Yeah. Saquon Barkley one hundred ninety three and then carry On Johnson one hundred ninety one. So those are outstanding numbers for three of the top running backs in the draft. Then we moved down a

little bit. Mentioned Darius Guys's at one hundred, which you know, a little bit below average, a little bit below average than what you want. He needs to get that number up and improved. Or Shad Penny's one oh five, another player we've talked about as possible Day two pick U and then kind of the below average numbers. Nick Chubb is at ninety eight, Mark Walton, who I mentions at ninety, nahem Hinz eighty six. Oh, I watched him the Nakram Wadley sixty seven, h Kaylin Balage sixty six, and then

Sony Michelle fifty four, which is the second worst. And like we said, he did get incrementally better, uh eliminating the fumbles down the stretch, but is still he has five in the last two years, and I think he had what twelve over his career, So it's still something that you need to pay attention to. You really liked the Williams kid, don't you? From LSU. Yeah. I think he's he's gonna have a better pro then he did at LSU. Yeah, and he's not because of guys. Yeah.

Well yeah, it's it's funny because he was the he was a highly rated recruit. Yeah four years ago. But he was a second running back recruit in Louisiana. But the number one running back recruit was Leonard Fournette. Yeah, and so because of that, you know, he kind of went overlooked. He was stuck behind Fournette, then he was stuck behind Geis and but anytime he got a chance to step up, he did. Uh. And he he's reliable catching the ball in the backfield, doesn't phone ball, doesn't

put the ball in the ground, pass pro Uh. He's not the most dynamic, explosive runner, but he gets what's blocked for him. I mean, I think he could be a ideal third down back. I'm not going to compare him to a guy, but you know, everything with Kamara on the way he burst onto the scene, you know, and I'm not but I'm saying a guy that can do everything right. But could he be again, I'm not saying the same player, but could he be for somebody

like what Kamara was for the Saints? Could he be a guy that is spells you know, it comes as a backup. Uh, you know it's a guy that you said, block, catch, you know, all those positive things. Could he be a guy, uh that someone uses like that, like Kamar, like the Saints use Kamara. I think he's maybe he's not just explosive. I don't think, I mean, And that's why I'm not

trying to compare the players. I'm just saying that what teams think about the second back, right, That's kind of what I'm asking there, right, And I think a guy like maybe like a Rex Burkhead and of England, like you know, like to what you're saying, the versatility, Yeah, that's kind of what I was. Yeah, where you could you could put him in a slot, you could, you could do a lot different things with him as a

pass catcher, as a blocker, as a rusher. Uh. You know, he's not gonna hurt you out there, right, and you know, kind of like a Rex Burkhead, He's not overly dynamic. He's not going to necessarily be a guy that defenses have to game plan for. But again, he's not gonna hurt you out there, and he can help your football team,

is he? Are we talking kind of early day three type of guy things, and which is kind of the area where you see a lot of these I'm not saying that he's that because I haven't seen him yet, But like specialty type guys, I think back to last year the Tarikko on types, you know, the late third round, early fourth round for Donel Pumphrey. Yeah, you know, yeah, I think about those type of guys. Yeah, no, I well, I think he's like I liked Pumphrey. I think he's

a better player than Pumphrey. And I'm not saying because of LSU bias or anything like that. I'm just saying it overall. Even Pumphrey led the world in yards and all that stuff like that, this guy, this guy's got some abilities tiny and he got hurt in the NFL though he have that. Yeah, he mentioned Carrie on Johnson a little bit. Oh yeah, well talk about him a little bit. The Auburn running back man. I enjoyed watching

him esterday. It's kind of weird how he's built. I didn't really realize that, you know, I'm just watching the games during the season with Auburn. I didn't realize how kind of he's not tall, but he looks tall. It looks like, yeah, yeah, he does yeah high hips, he runs long legged. He's really upright the way his style is too. But he's a finisher though. I mean you could watch him. I mean knees but go ahead, I'm just the way you would kind of take the ball.

And his first couple of steps reminded me of de Marco Murray. Oh this kind of looked like just kind of long legs. Yeah, I mean that's that's I loved everything. I thought there was good patience, good vision, and real tough. I mean yeah, you see guys get hands on him and he's running through content. I saw a lot of inside runs with him, yeah, you know, and him having to fight through you know, running I mean, and and he's got these subtle moves too for kind of a

long legged looking guy. Yeah. Yeah, he's I mean, I will saying it's plant and he makes a lot of guys miss in space. I hate, you know, bringing up the name, but Levion Bell. Do you see a lot of that, because that's fair, it's because of what you're saying. The patience, yeah, I mean he allows the blockers to

do their job. He's very good with his vision to understand what the defense is trying to do, and then he picks his spots and he goes And when you first watch him, like I didn't, I didn't really expect much. I really wasn't that impressed. But then like the more you watch him, you realize, like, you know, this work works, Like, yeah, he really understands what he's doing out there. He's not the most graceful between the tackles, but yeah, he maximizes,

maximizes each run. And I've said this before, but he might be the toughest running back I've ever scouted in terms of pain tolerance, getting beat up and shoulder right. Dealt with that shoulder. He's too tiny. It's still going out there and you know, giving everything he has to help the offense. So I mean, carry on Johnson. To me, that's one of the reasons why he's a top four back for me and fighting to be that number three

guy behind Barkley and Jones. See that's you know, you watch him play and the offense is really is it's it's you know, it's a college offense though with I mean they'll spread you out and stuff, but the way that is, it's Stillman's the quarterback Stitman Stidham, Jared Stidham, Stidham Stidham. He'll he'll take the snap and he'll put the ball right there. And it's like it's okay, somebody go get the in. It's slow, slow, and then they and then he gets the ball and the next thing

you know, he's he's like in the secondary. I mean, it's that like you said with DeMarco Murray, it's kind of like very slow starting and then all of a sudden he's covering ground. And I see that with what he's saying with Bell too, though. Yeah, you could see the cuts and just the shiftiness is there. And let me ask you about this because there's another guy in that backfield but I haven't seen yet as pet Way. Yeah, what do you think about him? He's basically a mack

truck who just tries to run over you. And again he's he's a Mike Tilbert. Yeah, I mean he's see what he wighs in at the combine. I expect somewhere two forty to two fifty in there, and uh, not a game breaker by any means. But you know, I have a late round guy, um, a guy that's you know, gonna run over you more than do anything else. But he actually came in low on the my Fumble chart. He had quite a few fumbles. Yeah, he had a fumble every fifty eight touches, so that's a number he

needs to him. I mean, we shouldn't go on that way in the NFL, Like, there's very few teams the Cowboys are being one of them, really rely on one running back. But there's very few teams now really rely on one guy. If you look at this, Yeah, and now you go to college, you LSU and Georgia and Auburn right there, and there's other teams that have, you know, two running backs. You know. I think the Saint I think the Saints the way they played this year was

a wake up call for a lot of people. Yeah, you hope, you know, I mean in a way, and you know, maybe it's a it's a day where Kamara will will take over, but I think that you do have to have a couple of different players to play this thing. Well, I see, And that's the thing with Kamara is you say you made him the feature runner, he wouldn't be the same back. He wouldn't have to guy, right, I mean he I mean, could he do it, probably,

but he wouldn't. I don't think you'd have the same impact because you have mark Ingraham as your bell cow the guy that's uh, you know, forcing defenses to respect the run. But they have Kamara that you can work into the mix, who is just as capable, you know, taking handoffs and running it up the gut. But you flux him out, you you know, use him as a decoy on some plays, use him as a target. Where he landed was just a perfect fit for his skill

set and the way they use him. And so you know it's not too say, you know, Kamara's just a product of that system. He's he's a very good player, but the way he's used with Ingram is important for his overall impact. And I think you can say that about some of these other running backs. You know, not every running back is meant to be that bell cow runner, right, and you just have to understand what he's used for. I got like Nihim Hines, who I mentioned Fantasy State.

Yes he's not. I don't see him as every down, No, that's not who he is. I think he's to me, he's like a James White for uh the Patriots, where he can help you as a rusher, receiver, returner. Uh. You know you kind of have to move him around. So you know, there's every running backs a little different, and I think more teams should build their backfields similar to what the Saints have done. Yeah, I think that's a I think that's a great way to look at

these uh, these running backs. I think, hey, find the guy, find if you know, if a guy fits. I don't think you know, phasing out right, oh you don't need running back. No, I think that it's an important piece to what you're trying to do offensively in this day and age, especially if you get a guy that can run and they can and also catch, right. You know Leo teams who were in the Super Bowl this year, Yeah,

they use multiple running backs all year long. Now, highest drafted running back and the Super Bowl was like the fourth round. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's not to say that you can't get a running back early, but you don't have to. You know, you can get those right. Corey Clement was he was undrafted. I think James White was the fourth round of Rex Burkhead was a Day

three Pickie was a fourth and fifth rounder. So yeah, you know, you can get these running backs later and you can build the backfield kind of you know, to fit your strengths as an offense. And that's what the Cowboys at done was Zeke u. It took a high price, and I think the payoff is there so far when he's on the field, but just goes to show you

you don't have to do it that way. And as quick aside, I think reminder real quickly the Zeke thing, which I was all on board for, I think we should always never forget that Romo was supposed to be the quarterback this year. Yeah, and the whole thing was let's go win one for Romo, right. The fastest way to do that to take the running back. Take the run back. If you look at that. Okay, well, thank you Dane. If you again, what's If you want to

see Dane's fumble numbers, go to DP Burgle. I reteeted it last night myself, and so check that out if you want to go through that. Okay, when we come back here the SWBC Mortgage Studios, we'll do a little twitter on the twenty and then at later in the program, I'm gonna have the guys play a little game called Separate and we'll be back. It can be hard to find the right resource for learning about important financial matters.

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deals and my John Deer Dealer dot com. Slash football terms, conditions, exclusions and warranty limitations apply. See can you Love the Details is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Showboys on the back here with the Draft Show in the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian broad Iss, Dame Burglar, Kevin KT Turner from one oh five three, The fan sitting in for Dave Hellman today who is catching beads on the streets of New Orleans, having a hurricane, having a hurricane or two,

and King Garrison executive producing. Uh. One of my favorite parts of the show is when we do this with a Twitter on the twenty But just real quick before we get going, condolences to Jason Garrett. And you know, I'm very critical of Jason Garrett, but you know, when you lose a loved one such as his father, I scouted with his dad, Jim Garrett for six years here with the Cowboys, and Jim had a tremendous passion for scouting, and I you know, I want to again send along

my condolences. One of the most passionate speeches I've ever heard and involving a player, was for Randy Moss and he if you ever I wish I could put out the video of that speech that he gave on behalf of Randy Moss and to argue with Chan Gaily at the time, and Dwayne painted the wide receiver coach with Jerry Jones listening, Jerry Jones having his glasses on the end of his nose, looking over at Jim Garrett and Jim Garrett said, Jerry, this isn't the boy Scouts, it's

the NFL. And Jerry looked at him and that's what closed it. That that closed, you know. Jerry said, Okay, thank you Jim. And he was right. Jim Garrett was right. Jim Garrett was right far more than he was wrong. And I enjoyed working with Jim. He brought a unique perspective to what scouting was all about. He was a hard worker, He'd seen some great players and so yes, a condolences to the Garrett family. We lost a really good scout in Jim Garrett. All Right. With that being said,

we're gonna go to a little my favorite. We're going to a little this Twitter on the Twitter and I will eventually get it out. Okay, boys, let's start this out with a little Twitter on twenty with no Dave Hellman here today. I've got to be the guy. Oh and Jonah, our buddy Jonah who always writes in wants to know is Durwin James in round one or Jesse

Bates and Rashid Golden in round two? Okay, so I haven't seen Bates, but watching Golden on Saturday, and I am now in love I can't believe there's not more buzz on Golden. He's incredible. Well, it's funny because I I watched him or I studied you know, his film like a month ago, and and thank you for and lighting and lighting all of us. Well, you know, and I stamped a second round grade on him. I loved him. I thought this is a perfect nickel for the NFL

game plays be toughness off the charts. And then yeah, I told you brought us. I was like, listen, there's no buzz on this guy. Watch him telling what you think? Am I crazy here? You watched him? You gave him one a third round grade? I think initially I did, And then I started watching him some more and I'm like, okay, yeah, he's he's he's the top thing. And then you guys saw him, and so yeah, I'm with you on Golden.

Now he's I'm surprised there's no buzz, but I think it's I'm expecting that hype train to take off soon. It's amazing that there are plays and you can tell that he's just a real smart, instinctive player. There are plays where he gets in and he knocks the ball out with his hands. In last minute recovers and like his adjustments on the fly, you know, his body adjustments, just being able to quickly stop and get back into

a play if he's overran it or whatever. And there was some field awareness too, or said, you know, seeing Meca tackle knowing exactly where the chains are. Um, you know, played mainly in the slot. We're talking about Rashawn Golden from Tennessee. Yeah, mainly in the slot. But it's six foot you know, you play outside. And I guess that's why the questions coming down. Should he play you know, safety? I don't know what you guys think. Yeah, I got him at safety. I'll tell you what I think him.

I think Bates is a hell of a player though, too. Yes, what great you get I got both those guys in the second round. Okay, see, I gave Bits a third song. I'm close to you. I mean, this is a guy. I mean, I'm just reading my notes again, as I always do. Burst plays with his eyes, those had to play the ball in the air, drives ball skills, has a feel for how to position himself for tacklers tackle.

Excuse me, but to play offhand knock the ball away like the way he carries himselves, not afraid to step up and make a play. It's always around the ball. Can play him up back. I see him, you know, I mean in that single high look. I don't have a problem with Bates. I see why Jonah asked the question. Well, one of the most important traits for safety is you have to trust what you see. Yeah, and he does. He does, Heason. It helps him put put himself in

a position to make plays. Um My biggest question with him might be is just his frame. Yeah, well but he's he's six one one. That's the measurables we have right now. If you if you talk about Golden, we have Golden just over six foot one ninety three. Yeah, well, I have Golden as a corner. Okay, But with Bates, I like, I got a GM tell me once that he's Okay, you're gonna play Golden a corner outside or you're gonna play him mainly in the slot. I think

he's an ideal nickel. Okay, that's what I think. That's what it's what he did at Tennessee. I don't know that's that's you know, in the NFL, not not saying you can't play safety. And he can't play corner outside corners. I think he could, but I think his best fit might be inside of the nickel with Bates. I had a GM once tell me, just in general, that his team would never draft a sub two hundred pound safety.

They never would. Yeah, And you know, I think that's something I thought was crazy, But then I thought more about it, and over the years I've kind of gained a little more respect for that take, just because usually we don't see sub two hundred pound safeties hold up. Now, it's not impossible, right, Buddha, Baker, Honey Badger, Guys, who are you know, the corner safety hybrids. You know, they've shown they can survive in this league just fine. Bates

is a corner safety hybrid. He's more of a true safety, and I think I still have a third drunk grade on I think he'd be a very good NFL player, But that would be one of my main concerns with him going to the next long. You know, I think in this day and age of having to be able to and maybe not all safeties have to cover, you know, but the ones that do, yeah, give him my you know, more portantly, give me the ones that could tackle. Yeah, you know, and I think that there's dirt one for you. Yeah,

talk about that. Back to the question, Yeah, who would you take. Who's a better cover guy? He's called in a better cover guy than Derwin? I would say, yes, yeah, right now, or at least or at least what you see on you know, on tape. And there were times when Derwin wasn't asked to do a lot of that, you know at Florida State. But I think Derwin is a better tackler and maybe I mean, he's clearly the best tackle he can God, can he tackle? Darwin is more of he's going to body slam tackle you. Yeah.

See that's the thing I watch him play. They're playing Florida and they're wearing they're wearing white uniforms, and his uniform is dirty. Yeah, I mean he's got mud and dirt and grass stains all over him. And I'm looking at him, going, this guy's a corner, you know, and he's playing like he's playing like he's the only one in Tennessee that cares on defense. Well, I think that's some one of the reasons why he's kind of going

underrated right now. The bad Tennessee team. Yeah, and those people see t watch this kid, They're like, oh, he must not be very good because Tennessee defense was cheese. But okay, so let's answer the question. Would you rather have Derwin James in the first? Okay? Yeah? Were Sean Golden in the second? Who would what direction would you rather go? If you're the Cowboys, I'd rather have Golden in the second? I think it's that close. I would go Derwin. I love Derwin. I would first round grade

on Derwin. And I'll tell you what I would You know, we need to get into a show where who am I getting at nineteen? And yeah, we did have a show of like who do you feel bad you have in the first round? You know, who is that guy that's making you you know, do that bit first? Yeah? I mean first say it. I'm just saying, and I'm saying, who is that guy that makes you just cringe? When you're like, god, he's a first round? If the Cowboys come away with Derwin James in the first round, your

initial reaction is good. Fact why I'm taking the best player And I love Rashwan Golden. I'm the president of his fan club. You are the president. I will give you credit for that. But I will take Derwin James in the first round. Okay, but a counterpoint, if the Cowboys get Rashawn Golden from Tennessee at fifty, what's your reaction high five? Oh yeah, I'll take both of them. Give me safety safe, let's go, We'll take give me

all this. Okay, let's go back at it, though, Like you said, if you took Okay, let's say we play your mock. You take Hurst, huh, and you take Golden in the second You're you're okay? Oh yeah, I don't feel great about that. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm getting two guys that were my top fifty. He doesn't feel good. I'm taking Hurst because Derwin wasn't there. He doesn't feel good though. If you take Win there, though, I wouldn't hate it, I just don't. I don't like it. Fernandez, don't give

me an offensive lineman on the top twenty Hurst over Win. Yeah, I'm not taking an offensive lineman on the top twenty. Un listen, Quinn Nelson. That's just me. Yeah, especially for this team, for this team, because again, they don't need an operation on the offensive line. They need a band aid. And I'm not drafting a band aid in the first round of nineteen overall. Now you could convince me about trading back. Oh, we already did. We played that game.

I here, Dane, here's the third round. Yea, that you could convince me give him, give him somebody in the top one hundred. He is, he is blent. But again he's going to get it. He's going to get a diet PEPSI in a in a Turkey. I love Isaiah Win. I love he's eighteen on my board. Well, I know, I'm just so, I'm just trying playing along with you here. That's good, good discussion. Thanks. I think I think on the twenties rocking so far. I think that I think

that uh oh, let's see here. Okay, okay, here's Matt. Matt wants to know, by the expert Chare at the draft show, how far does someone like Mika, Fitzpatrick or Chubb have to fall before you think about moving up. I don't want him. I mean, I'm you're not a I'm I'm not a big fan. I'm not a huge Chubb or Mica. I like Mika. Is he making those guys is a cringer? Yeah, a little bit. Both of those guys are like guys I'm happy to have five

guy for him, I think. I mean, in most drafts, are you you played to the draft that you have in this draft? And yes? To me, they're both top five guys. Sure, all right, we saw what happened last year with the you know, with our Alabama guy and our Ohio State guy. I'm not trying to give up pick fifty or pick eighty one. Let's just say that hypothetical. He's Mica Fitzpatrick's there at eight, and uh who's at eight? Bears,

you gotta give up pick fifth. Chicago calls you and says, nineteen and fifty you can move to eight to get Minka. I'm probably gonna drafton Nelson there, probably Nelson there on this scene. I'm probably moving up to take Calvin Ridley. Oh or if you want to replace Minka with Chubb in that scenario, say it's truly right here. I don't. Well, I just don't see any way Chubb falls out of the top five. I don't either, But I don't know. Maybe yeah, we thought that again, Well, the quarterbacks always

come run in two. Jonathan Allen was a shoulder more than anything, right, and he wasn't a true pass Rusher. You know, he was more of an inside guy or you know, a five take your buddy if the Colts takes him. You had him in the mock, didn't you there, didn't you have Chubb going to Colts? Yeah, I mean I think, well, let's just say that for hypothetical stake, they don't go quarterback. Yeah, you know, let's say they they're okay with Burssette and wait and see on luck.

But they they're an interesting spot because you know, they could go Barkley we you know, or say, I know it is talked about how they want they need a draft a big time running back high and all that, But this is Chris Ballard's team and he's going to do his best for the team. And I think that would be just hired by Frank Reich by the way, too, Yeah, I could hired of that. I think Chubb would be would make a lot of sense for India three. So yeah, but I get what you're saying about. You know, I

don't I don't want to see them trade up either. No, I like both those players, Mika and Chubb. I don't think either You're gonna fall that far where they even have the option to trade up for him. So I'm not sure it'll be an issue, but if they did, I wouldn't hate because you're getting a top five player. But I give you a spot ten and what's the spot where it's switches from fifty to eighty one that you're giving up? I would say eight, yeah, eight, eight

to nine ten, one of those. Yeah, I'll just stay well, yeah, well, and this team needs more than one and its oh no, you're right, you're right. I mean, I'm not. I'm just it's a good question. Though. We're gonna do a show about going up gets out of here and one of these shows. Get ready for that, folks, Buddy Sean wants to know. They're always guys shooting up the draftboards after the combine. Who do you see jumping this year? Do

you have a combine jumper? Well, we talked about what kind of talked about this last week a little bit with when I stunned you LSU guys, when I said DJ Charker Dante Jackson could get into the first and I stopped that real quick. Dante Jackson may go run of four, two five, right. Kind of liked him, didn't you. Yeah, Well, when you have that type of speed. That type of athleticism didn't look easy. He makes running look easy. He's kind crazy all over the place. I make running look

very difficult. He makes running look very simple. Well, and exactly one hundred and seventy five pounds, right us? Is that we're talking about any rule about your hundred and seventy five pound corner not a corner. Corners need to cover and he and you don't have to be a big time tackler. Just get him on the ground and he can do that. Hey plays hard to like you had the little the little man fight skills, you know, go get the ankles. He might be Yeah, he might say,

don't tackle. No, I said, I don't I care. You need to cover if you're a corner, yeah, I do. As a run defender, you just need to get him on the ground. If you don't have to be a perfect form tackler, no, but you might need some real mostments at times. And I don't think he missed a ton. Oh he didn't miss It's a physical little guy. Yeah. I would like him. Yeah, heck yeah, that type of athleticism. You know those guys who go high and I think Dante Jackson DJ Chark two guys that are going to

test really well. And again Will Fuller, we saw you know, Oh no, Will Fuller, he's not the most well rounded receiver. You know, again, Dutch in full notre dame. You can be a one trick pony as long as you're really good at that one trick. Yeah, you know. And DJ Chark, which charts one trick vertical separation. Yeah, he can get behind the defense and he might have to be the most most consistent pass catcher. But when you have that type of speed, again, Will Fuller, he had more drops

than you know, most of the receivers drafted that year. Prediction. Could he be the second wide receiver taken? Could sure? I don't see why not. Again, I'm not saying he's not wouldn't be for me at all. He's not close. He just he just grinted his job. He's Mickey, he's number eleven, Yeah, number eleven for you, number eight Yeah, all right. I'm not a big fan. But again, when you had that type of speed, the question was who's going to kind of vault up after the combine? Dante Jackson,

DJ Chart, guys are gonna run really well. I expect it. I think Denzel Ward's gonna run really well. But I already think he's in the top ten. But I think that'll kind of squash any you know, worries about him maybe falling a little bit because of his size. Um, I mean speed kills and that's that's kind of Oh no, you're not wrong, combine you know thinking all right? Ever John Ross last year? Oh, I remember John Ross, but

needed to wear those Adidas shoes. Wear the right shoes or if he if he wore those shoes, would he have set the record? Get some money? Yeah? Bleed Blue wants to know are there any day two or three pass rushers that can make an impact there? Dane Brugler, All right, well, or well can I step in? Can I be taking ahead? Dan? Dane loves Duke Edgio four? Yea, there we go. There's you a good second round pass rusher. I like that. Um, as long as it watched the red, right,

I gotta watch the green. And I'm looking at my grades on my on my other talking about Yeah, I'm my other edge guys that I have like second round grades on. It's Harold Landry who will go in the first round. It's Marcus Davenport who will likely go in the first round. Uh. But then I've got Sam Hubbard there and there's yet a little Day two guy. Think Hubbard's not gonna wow you. He's not going to uh you know, is he like Hubbard going to get picked

at twenty nine thirty one? Aunt Patsy. He's very smart and this is a guy that he was a lacrosse player. He was going to Notre Dame and play lacrosse out of high school and he got a chance to Rameyer came in, flexed his muscles and said you're coming to Ohio State, played football and next thing you know, he went from safety to linebacker to defensive end and so he's only been in the position for three years and he's the strides that he's made really impressive. He's very smart,

very instinctive. A lot of preparation goes into what he does. Again, not gonna vow you, but I think the impact that he can make is why he's going to be in that late first early second and brought us let me ask you about a guy, because uh, I think this is a guy. Maybe maybe it's more of a third round, but he said, you know, Day two or whatever. Chad Thomas from Miami. The music guy, Okay, the music man. Yeah, well, what do you think about him? I kind of liked

him a little bit. I wasn't I was disappointed we didn't get to h c him more at the Senior Bowl. Yeah, he was I think the first practice and then he had to exit because of an injury. But he had a nice week the week before the Shrine. Yeah. But tall yeah, six five Right, he's a good looking athlete. Uh and he like a lot of those guys, not quite sure what he's doing yet, but there are some traits there that you think could be worth drafting. How

about am I am? I'm off base with hand from hand? Yeah? I mean is that an off base? Is that way off base for us? I think what you get to where you're gonna play him, That's what I'm saying. I was trying to think of a guy, maybe a rusher, a little bit of a guy that we saw. I saw this kid that Kylie fits from Utah, from Utah. I thought he was left in kind of a guy.

It wasn't terribly excited about him, but you know, I know some people at the Senior Boy he looked thought better at the Senior Bowl than he did uh on on tape. How about your guy? Uh uh Hercules, Hercules matafa? How about him? You don't know where to play him either, do you? Uh No? And I don't know how anyone could because he was an interior your player at two hundred and fifty pounds. Um, you know it's one thing

to say that. Oh yeah, I just put him outside. Okay, Well I think he had single digit snaps outside for Washington State last year, so it's not like he's accustomed to playing out there. Not to say he can't do it, but it's a projection. Um kind of looks like a rusher. Though his burst off the line is unbelievable. He has arguably the best first step in this draft. I'm gonna give you two names ahead. Keep in mind Josh Sweat from Florida State. Need to watch him and Doran's Armstrong

from Kansas. Two pass rushers who are going to be Say the names again so people can kind of get a jump on those. Josh Sweat from Florida State, Josh Set Florida Store. These are all names have familiar with because I've just they're gonna be in the second fourth round range somewhere um, and I think they're going to be. I mean they're both they both had their holes. That's why they're not being talked about his first rounders or anything.

But U Doran's armstrong. You see the basketball background, contact balance. He he was great as a sophomore and then his production fell off. But you got to keep in mind he's playing on a Kansas team where he's one of maybe two pros on that defense. Easy for offense is the game plan against him. Josh Sweat, he was a big time recruit out of high school. Uh, you know the he didn't really have the career many thought he could have had at Florida State. But he's he's got tools.

He's got athletic tools that you want to develop and add to your rotation. So I think both those guys are kind of that second and fourth round mix. Got some names. R K T. Nice got one more here before we h a man the real low wants to know. Uh, he wants to know. Dane. Do you believe Win can start for the Cowboys right now? Yes? Not even I mean forget August. He could start today. I mean there's

no reason to think that he couldn't. And again, this is a guy who played guard as an underclassman, played off, started off fifteen games that left tackle, and I think he can play tackle on a pinch, just like Zach Martin could. But just like Martin, he's better inside the bend. The flexibility, the hips, the punch, it's all there where. He can handle NFL rushers from the get go. He's a Day one starter. Whoever drafts him had just pencil Himan in your depth chart number one at guard. That's

who he is. And that's again I'm a big fan. The follow up is you want to know his follow up? Then why not take him at nineteen? Because my offensive line is already a strength. The offensive line is already a strength on this team. I don't need an operation, I need a band aid. I can go out on the free agent market and get a left guard. Oh no, way, we've done this. They've done poorly. But you can still do it. Okay, you could go in a second round, you can go in the third round. You can get

you can get a guard. Again. I love Isaiah win the play, but it's just it's an allocation of resources. Yeah, and with this team as needs up and down the roster, you know, I need a different I set you up for that one. It was a two part question. Look, if this team dresses Isaiah Win, I will be happy because he's a good player in the Cowboys need good players. A man will be sitting there and you'll be sitting there, and it'll be for eighteen hours. He will you know,

he'll act like he's really happy about taking artist. Well know what, I wouldn't do it, but he's a good player in the Cowboys need good players. The bottom line, all right, thanks everybody for Twitter on the twenty and pain just kidding. Okay, when we come back to the SWBC Morgan Studios, I'm gonna play a little separate. Stay tuned. Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't cut it, and your skincare should be no different.

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or in the stands. Actually, you're more than a fan. You are a member of Cowboys Nation, and so is AT and T doing their part to keep you connected to America's team all season. Law AT and T is a proud member of Cowboys Nation. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft. You Cowboys on the Welcome back to the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Yeah, my man, Kevin two are from A one oh five three. The fan always appreciate him being here. Dane Brugler as always director player personnel.

He's one of the best. We're gonna lose you soon. I have a feeling I say that the future TM I cry. I'm gonna cry that day. I might not I might just not do the draft show anymore. When that happens that's not true. Yeah, well I love this too much. Something I do know about. I do know about Tommy John Underwear. They're a big time sponsor with the Cowboys here. Uh you know, we're heading off to Indianapolis.

We gotta get our fill of Tommy John underwear. If you want to check it out, make sure you go to Tommy john dotcom Forward Slash Cowboys for twenty percent off your first order Tommy john dot COM's Forward Slash Cowboys and they will hook you up some of the best underwear, socks, t shirts, underwear, all that you're stuff. You need all that all Minnesota two weeks ago. You need all that, man, not like the Great North. Yea,

even though Dallas. Yeah, yeah, fair it is. It's it's cold here in Dallas, but snow one on the my way in well, well, you know, like I said, we'll get up to Indianapolis and we figured out we figure out all the routes of the city where we don't have to go outside. Yeah, that's kind of the way we work. I grew up in the North, so I'm used to it. I used to enjoy it. But you are used to it. There's no doubt about that was

five years in Green Bay doing stuff. How about me? Okay, I'm gonna play a little game with you guys here in the last fifteen minutes of the show. Excuse me. Separate is what I want to know. I want to know what you guys think about. And these are kind of some guys. In my mind, I feel like that they are pretty close. Maybe you guys might have them

a round apart. Maybe you like them a little bit better, a little worse than but separating for me, and this happens like in real war room board and you know, it's just you're going to have clusters you are. Bill Parcel said, they're all stacked in there like club sandwiches. Help me out here. Boys don't want you know, you don't want five or six guys. It just closes up for board. Hey, is a guy a second round guy or is it a third round guy? Guys want to

talk about here? I want to talk about James Daniels, center from Iowa, and I want to talk about Billy Price center guard from Ohio State Dane. In my mind, these two guys are similar in ound. You know, maybe second round type players, second third type, maybe two three guys for you separate the two. For me, we actually

both one twos. Okay for me, I love both. And this is tough because with James Daniels, I think I'm kind of overcompensating, uh, because I don't want to come off bias because he's from my hometown, good Old one Name High School. No, I went to the Catholic high school. He was to the public high school. Um, but my sister went to the public high school with him. They graduated together. And so he's brother of the Packer defensive lineman. Is it yes? Is it? Yeah? I think so? Someone

told me. I think I'm right about that. I don't think. I think I asked that question the other night. Oh was it you asked? He's a brother of Lashawn Daniels, a former running back out of Iowa who had a couple of Okay, well my apologies, din't maybe both Iowa guys, right, Okay, yeah, you're right, and last named Daniels. Yeah, okay, it's common.

But yeah, so James Daniels I like a lot. When you watch his tape, you're kind of, I don't you know what your preconceived notions are going in, but you kind of you're watching all of a sudden, you're like, Okay, this guy doesn't have any bad reps. Like, yeah, he's really impressive. He's winning the point of attack with his hands, he's balanced in his pass sets. Uh you know, he's

creating movement in the run game. Yeah. Yeah. You look on your notes and there's all these positives, you negatives, and you're like, you know, like why you run out of reasons why you shouldn't have him high? Right, And the same thing with Billy Price. He Billy Price has started more games in Ohio state history than anyone else. He's done it for a long time. He did it at guard, did it at center. Both these guys I have high in that late first round range. It's it

could be hard to separate them. I have no problem if you choose either or so, I know that doesn't really help you. And no, this is separate ye, And I'm struggling to separate them. But that that's kind of where I am, right. I'll step up to help me. Help me there, Help me, Midwest Scout. You have more courage than I do. Help me, Midwest Scout James Daniels above of Billy Price. In fact, I'm putting James Daniels with a clear one and Billy Price with the clear two. Well,

I think Billy Price is a little more. He's over aggressive, Like there's there are times when he misses, you know, it gets his head down a lot. He's a smart player, can tell it, plays go with his hands and he's good. We were talking about it though, kind of a belly blocker, a little bit belly block and there's the movement is

just a little easier for James Daniels. There are times, and it looked there were in his own scheme in Iowa, so like there are times you're just stepping but you could see him get in there and go reach a three technique, you know, just really easily. Yeah, and like that, little things like that. I'm sitting there going, man, it just looks a little easier for him than Billy Price.

You're right, very good players, both of them, very good players, and both likely you know, go late first or early second. You know where you had him. But for me, I like Daniels just a just a touch more, don't I don't think you're wrong at all, all right. I mean I I have Daniels over Price myself, and I think

what I was impressed with. Was that ability, like you said, the balance, the body control, the extension, I mean everything about When when when you get a center that could snatch at three and the three technique, a wide three, that tells me you got an athlete, you know. I mean he looks comfortable doing It's not a position, yeah, I mean there's some centers that do that and they're diving in the back of guy's legs and he's on his feet and the and his butt is all the

way around, you know, pushing the guy back inside. And they're both really good players. I mean, I don't want to I don't, but my separation is I have him close. But I also think that Daniels is better, just because I think that you can get more movement with him in the running game. And I think he's comfortable. I've watched him in the past set stuff. He doesn't he doesn't look bad at all doing that. I think sometimes

Billy Price, it's not all the time. I think sometimes he's a little out of control, and James Daniels is always in control. And I think that matters. Just it for angles and just getting your body position the right way. Yeah, yeah, picturing my mind the Big Ten Championship game against Wisconsin, and yeah, Billy Price, there's a few times he was on the ground because he that overaggressiveness you're talking about, uh, and so he he kind of sells out a little

bit where Daniels is a little more controlled. Now we've seen Price play extensively at guard. Yeah, does that Does that enter into your thinking at all about that position? To flex ro Daniels saying, yeah, No, that's true. That's true. We've only really seen him perform at a high level at center, and so you know that's something to keep in mind with those two players as well. Now, I do agree with the fact you have seen him play some guard. I think that there's some there's some merit

to that. There's there's surely some merit to that. Okay, Uh, guy, I kind of guys, I have close close here, Separate Carlton Davis Auburn corner with my guy. And again here we're going for another Iowa guy, and I I want to separate him from Joshua Jackson from Iowa. Separate Carlton Davis Auburn and Joshua Jackson Iowa. I have them. Am

I wrong with them being close? No? I have guys in between them, but it's Yeah Jackson, Josh Jackson, Isaiah Oliver, Carlton Davis, Okay, I mean right right there, and they're both I mean late one, early two. I think Davis he's a trades guy. He looks the part, he runs. Well, you really like the trades. Yeah, he's got some ball skills, but not as good as ball skilled as Jackson. They're just some things missing a refinement, um. And so that's why I have Josh Jackson over him. He's instincts are

more developed at this point. The ball skills are outstanding. Tackling that's an issue. Yeah, I mean, and you know that when he draft the player that's helping you, you know, don't you know? It's funny. But Davis didn't exactly light me up as a tackler either, No, he wasn't. I mean I think he's I think if you just compare who it was better cover guy. I think Davis is a better cover guy. Okay, I think, well, I think

he's more diverse too. Where h you feel better about him and pressone and off coverage, wherewith Jackson, I think you you want to see him in his own you know, I think that's where he let his instincts and his ball skills do their thing. Davis a little more well rounded. Uh, and I think he has a higher potential, but I think he also has the lower floor as a player.

I agree with you with the with the ceiling because you look at it, the wingspan and just how long his arms are and then O there times though you see him down the field get off balance a little bit and then he's grabbing. Yeah. I think he had six or seven passing inference pials these which you know you're gonna get called for that. But you could see him get off balance quite a bit. So maybe the more polished player Josh Jackson is, um you know here,

you're gonna sit there though. We're started talking about separating them. Yeah, who do who do I want first? I want Josh Jackson first. I agree, but it's but it's with you at Jackson over Davis on your board. I'm sorry, I was listening and I have I have Alexander next, they have Alexander in between. I've got Alexander ahead of see now I have I love Alexander. Yeah, so why and that's why I mean I would I would say if you if you asked me to rank the three, I went,

Alexander Jackson Davis is what I did. I'm Jackson now Xander Davis. Isn't he a president? Yeah? It's a law firm. It's a law firm right there. Alexander Jackson Davis Jr. Alexander's my number nineteen player on my board, so I'm very high on him. Uh. And then I have jack Have Hughes uh twelve, Hughes from again my corners on my board, UCF Fitzpatrick's number two, Denzel Wards number six,

Mike Hughes twelve, Jayar Alexander teen, Josh Jackson twenty three. Uh, down, down down, Isaiah Oliver thirty six, and then Carlton Davis at forty one. Where'd you guys have Stewart from North Carolina? Okay? Yeah? M J. Stewart, J. Stewart. I got him right here in the mix as well. And where would you play him? You guys are higher on him than I am. I He's a nickel guy for me. Yeah, I agree. I got a three to four on him. I'm not as high. I got him at the back end of the second K.

I like the guy a lot. He's not fast. I mean that's he's kind of a slower guy. But I think he's a very smart player. Say he runs a four or five five at combine, Does that change your opinion? All? No, because I think that four five four. Yeah. I saw a real smart player though, who put himself in good position all the time, and a really good tackler. Here's a guy that he played in the slot as well,

and he would funnel. I mean he just immediately he just you know, if you watch him play, he'll he'll play off and he'll open and he'll just kind of run with the guy. Yeah, I saw him nine in the football though. I mean I gets his eyes back to the ball. See that's I got him going the third? Myself, who'd you like better, Duke Dawson or M J. Stewart. I put Stewart above him, okay, and I and I was a fan, I was a fun Yeah, I put I put Stewart in the third and Dawson the fourth. Okay.

So yeah, dude, and he's Florida right, just to make sure senior another six senior nickel guy all right. In the last couple of minutes here separate from me, and we talked about these running backs a little bit, but they were on my list, separate, separate, Ronald Jones and Darius Guys, and then we talked about the running backs a little bit, right. I just the burst of Ronald Jones is incredible. He's Jamal Charles clone. I mean, maybe it's the number twenty five jersey that kind of throws me.

But he looks either body type, the acceleration, the burst out of his cuts, the lateral movement. Uh. And he's not the biggest guys about two hundred and five pounds. We'll see what he is the combine, but his momentum, that celeration generates run power, and so he isn't just a soft runner who's gonna go down to first contact. He's has that forward lean and the ability to pick up those extra inches. Ronald Jones, it's and he stays healthy. He wasn't banked up quite as much as you would

expect for a guy that size. He doesn't put the ball in the ground. I don't know. When you break down all the traits that you look for the running back position, Jones gets more check marks than Darius Guys does. For me, oh, I agree, I'm I'm the exact same way he talk at the Jones the pad level too, just kind of able to get down and hide behind guys. You start talking about guys again, I might need to rewatch him and look at twenty sixteen though. And that's

something we always talked, We always joke about it. We hate doing that. Man, if he was good in twenty sixteen, he would be good in twenty seventeen. It's the old Deshaun Kaiser example, Conn Williams effect, sure, right, Yeah, so I think I want to watch twenty six team before I really you know, fully commit to how I feel about Darius guys. But so it's clearly Ronald Jones for me separated. Yeah, but for you, I know I went. I went Jones first, guys second, it's what I did.

So Jones you number two running back, Yeah, Jones, my number two running. I've noticed the LSU guys because of you know, the last few years of pain have kind of they're they're more skeptical on the LSU guys. So you really want to make sure that you usman you and hellman. Yeah, those guys. You always want to ask you guys your heart on the LSU. No, No, I haven't I have Jones. He Jones a better player you'll bring We'll call out a name, was a better player.

We'll call out a name before we watch an LSU guy, and you'll further the kind of make a little noise. Let's watch this Tolliver kid. Uh, hold on, I haven't seen him yet. Now I already think he's not good. Oh, don't say that. I'd say that. Katie. Thanks so much for joining us. I didn't really appreciate you. You'll be back tomorrow night film steady, right, can't wait. We're gonna watch Josh Sweat and Dorance Armstrong. That's gonna be the

first call of the blocks. Yeah, thank you very director, player personnel, Buddy Appa, thank you all right for Dave Burgler, for Kevin KT Turner, I'm Brian Bruss. Also for Kent Garrison. Thank you very much for falling along draft. She'll be back Thursday at eleven am. We will be back with some more information, try and get you a little bit closer to uh this. Three days coming up, so stay tuned.