Draft Show: How Good is Pick Number 10?

Dallas Cowboys offseason. And it's the first offseason edition of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Glad you're with us everybody on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and coast to coast across the world. As Bucky Brooks, Brian brought us, myself, Kyle Yeomans will break down this draft David Hellman today and Brian, I think that's why this is gonna be our best show yet. Right. Yeah, We're just gonna go ahead and hand us the Sports Emmy, the Marcody whatever

you want to do. Dave, feel free to sit at the table while Bucky, Kyle Beam we all go up there and get our awards. We'll put you in the thank you speech. We'll put you in the thank you speech for sure. Thank goodness and thank goodness, David Hellman. You were great all the way through. But hey, you're

at the table today and now we love David. He just had more important things to do today, like interview some guy that was nicknamed the Playmaker or whatever it was back in the day, something like that had somebody to talk to that was more important than we are. But guys, you look at the Cowboys season down coming to a close, and the Cowboys have settled into that number ten pick, and it's not number four like we thought it might have been earlier in the year, but

it actually ends up being number ten. You're still a top ten pick for the first time since twenty sixteen. But Bucky, how good of a spot is that for the Cowboys whenever it comes to the number ten pick, because they've had some they've had some success in the top ten in the past. Yeah, you should have success when you're picking in the top ten because that's really

the cream of the crop of each draft class. When you think about the top ten and you think about getting difference makers, game changers, and when the Cowboys have had the opportunity to selective that they've been able to nail it. And so this year I think it's actually fortunate for them because I think the needs and what is available lines up with where they're picking. In terms of the Cowboys, what their biggest needs are and where

the talent is, I think it matches up. So now it's just a matter of determining which players are right fit for the team and where they want to go. Right Yeah, No, I absolutely agree with Bucky because you know, we were kind of looking at if you had to say, a top four or five pick. You know, if you're looking for save, defensive help, do you feel comfortable picking it right at that spot? I think initially we said, know which you consider trading down, grabbing a pick or

two from somebody else? Could you go down to ten, eleven, twelve, somebody right there? I think the Cowboys are in a great spot right there. You know, offensive players, defensive players. You'll have an opportunity to grab whatever direction you want to go. And you know, if you still want to potentially trade down again, I think you're in an absolute

wonderful spot there. Of course, scouts want to be as high as you can on the board, But being in the ten hole is not a bad thing, especially in this draft, and I think we've talked about it before, but really the only thing that you're messing out from being maybe in the top five as to being at ten as the options of where to go in the draft and where you should fall and what you would get in return and kind of the draft capital that you can play around with there. But in terms of selecting,

this is right where you want to be. And if you look at the Cowboys last six top ten selections, five have made the Pro Bowl. Is Zekiel Elliott twenty sixteen. More Clayborne is the only one that did not make the Pro Bowl Tyrren Smith in twenty eleven, Terrence Newman, Roy Williams, and Greg Ellis. That's the last six times the Cowboys that picked him the top ten. They've also never selected specifically with the tenth overall pick, but the closest times they did was when they picked ninth with

Tyrant Smith and they picked eleventh with DeMarcus Ware. So you've had some you've had some success around in that area in the draft, and hopefully they can continue that a little bit, But Bucky, you brought up a point in our group message this week that kind of wanted

to hit a little bit. But Mike McCarthy was asked earlier this week about the identity of this organization and the identity of the Cowboys player personnel and kind of where they're going from here, and he kind of gave a non answer, didn't necessarily answer the question and kind

of kept it close to the chest. But how important is that identity, Bucky, whenever it comes to drafting these players and evaluating who you want on your roster and who you're going to put in certain situations, Because at least right now, this is where the full first full off season that Mike McCarthy's going to have in terms of trying to get into that moment, I think it's

very important. I think it's something that should be communicated, communicated at all times, not only from coach to coach and coach to personnel staff, but players should understand exactly what this team is about, and who the players are on this team and what court traits are necessary. And we're not talking about position specific things, just hey, I want a smart, fast, tough, physical football team, and the players that play on this team have to exhibit those traits.

For Mike McCarthy to not be able to articulate it. To me, it was troubling, particularly coming off Jalen Smith's long rambling answer about the identity of the team and all of that stuff. I just wonder if there is alignment from top to bottom, and that's something that maybe Brian can speak on having worked in the building. I just don't know how you can go forward in terms of acquiring players if you don't have a clear identity for your team and for the individual players that you

want to bring up. Yeah, that's you know, your ap right, Bucky. And you know, let's look at the teams that are successful throughout you know. I always like to talk about the Ravens, the Steelers, you know, Kansas City. Now look what Buffalo's doing. There's clear identity of what their football team is. Tennessee's another one. I just feel like though, you know, Mike McCarthy comes from a program in Green Bay where the head coach didn't have a lot of

say and what was going on. If we all remember too well, Mike McCarthy said, hey, you know, give us the players, we'll fit the scheme to the players we have. Well, we'll see if that actually is the case, but yeah, I think that, you know, the teams that have continuity, I think they drafted well under Jason Garrett because they had an idea of what kind of player they wanted.

And if you look at last year's draft of the Cowboys coaches coming in late having to set up playbooks and stuff like that, maybe the coaches weren't involved as much with the Cowboys, and maybe Mike McCarthy. You know, we'll see how much. You know, my experience of working in the organization is the head coach carries a big

stick in that room. Whether you want to be like Bill Parcels and beat people over the head with it, or you want to be like Wade Phillips and Dave Campbell, which is kind of sit back and let the scouts do their job. So yeah, I think that they If Mike McCarthy wants to be involved, he absolutely can, but they need to understand what kind of players that these

coaches want and go forward from there. Because the outstanding organizations that I mentioned, the Ravens, you know, the Chiefs, the Steelers, they have a clear identity and a clear plan. If you had to look at the Cowboys specifically, and Bucky will start with you on this one, but if you had to look at the Cowboys, what would their identity be? Because I don't know. Mike McCarthy may not have given that non answer just based off of keeping it close to the test. He may he may not know.

He may not know what that identity is, at least looking at as personnel. But what would you tab it as as a team overall? You know, I don't know, because it is a bit of a team in flux. Like you know, we can criticize the previous coaching staff and Jason Garrett or whatever. But I knew when I turned on the TV, I knew exactly what I was watching and what I was gonna get from the Dallas Cowboys.

I knew offensively they were gonna be a mash team that was really driven by the running back play ash and passes, and they had a level of sophistication and that regard in terms of the big plays. And then on defensives gonna be a hard playing unit that would run from sideline to sideline and chase the ball and hunt. And so when I look at this team, and because like they kind of snickered at the notion Mike Nolan talked about versatility and wanted to be able to do

more things and multiple than all that other stuff. I kind of believe you have as symboled a team that's kind of a jack of all trades, master of none. And so I don't know, And I think it's really important that you heard the players complain about the uncertainty

and not knowing. I think it's really really important that the team, Mike McCarthy gets a clear definition of the identity so that everyone in the organization knows and that everyone can act accordingly when it comes to acquired personnel and putting in things that mass the talent that is now in the building. Yeah, and you know, to be honest with you, guys, you know they're in the situation right now where there might be some changes on this

defensive staff. And if you change the defensive coordinator, now do you change the identity again? You know, you talk about multiple the defense. We want to be a four to three, we want to be a three to four. We want to hybrid stuff. We want to cover this way. You know, Bucky, you brought it up about the corner situation. Hey, do you want guys that play off? You want to play guys that play man? I mean, they've got to figure those things out quickly if they're going to stick

with the current defensive staff. Okay, well, now you know Taylor your needs that way. But if you're going to go out and you're gonna draw this out and wait and oh we need to talk to this guy and all that and that, let's be honest, that's a little bit of the cowboy way. Hey, let's just kind of way. Let's see if the problem fixes itself. Let's you know that that doesn't need you need to be proactive right now.

If you're going to lose, if you're going to lose the opportunity to to have a you know, an identity here and and not hire the right guy, then man, that that's just that puts you further further back in the behind the apol. Well, and how different is it going to be from last year to this year? Specifically, because when Mike McCarthy was hired, it seemed as if Will McClay was the one that kind of took the

reins and said, I'm gonna get you some guys. I'm gonna go, we're gonna draft best player available, We're gonna scout these guys and then you'll listen to us. Is that going to shift at all? Do you think, Brian, Because I mean, now a year into things, Mike McCarthy has a better idea maybe how he wants to build that identity from a roster standpoint. And is Will McClay going to have that same kind of say as he

did maybe last offseason. Yeah, I hope they do. You know, again, I always and this is the selfish side of me coming out that I do believe the scouts have a responsibility to the team in a way of helping build this roster and in a big way. You know, I'm not going to call a third down defense. I'm not going to call a goal line package. I'm not going to do those things. You know, I'm not going to step into the coaches area there. But let me focus

on my area. And anytime, you know, I worked in an organization in Green Bay where Mike Homegrin said he was back in the scouts, and you know, the scouts are wrong sometimes, but I always feel like though they're responsible for evaluating these players the whole entire year, and if they have an idea where the coaches need to get to go, well, then they can help more so

than a coach coming in. I mean, we look what Rod Marinelli did to this team for four or five years and the way that they the way that they went away from players or went towards certain players. You know, you can't have that. Yes, I want coach responsibility, but I don't want it just overeating every single thing that I do going forward as far as building this football team. You know, Brian, I want to ask you this because

you talk about coaches and scouts. I wanted just from an overall franchise philosophy, whether it's Jerry Jones or Stephen Jones, hasn't been set down. This is a kind of team that I want, you know. And then that way it is easy because whoever the head of the football chain is, they set the vision for the program. And so if everyone understands what that is, it makes it easier for the coaches and the scouts to understand this franchise is

about this. So when you name those franchises Baltimore, Pittsburgh, those long time franchises where you know, if I tell you, ay, the Pittsburgh still does a comeing town. You already know. Hey, guys, put your big boy paths on. This is the other play and it doesn't matter who the coach is. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right, Bucky. I think that. And that's the problem that you have with the Cowboys, I believe is

that you know Jerry Jones as the general manager. I'd like to believe that he has his thoughts on what kind of team he wants, but I think he allows a lot of it to be Hey a head coach, guy, what do you really want? What do you envision? How can we help you kind of thing. I'm not saying that as a general manager you have to beat your head coach over the head with a stick, like I said earlier, but I feel like you have to have ability to say, Okay, this is what my guy wants,

this is what my guy needs. When I evaluate when I look at my football team, we really lack this. And I think as a general manager, director player personnel, you've got to You've got to do everything in your power to try and bring players in that are to your vision and try and best match what's going on with the head coach. But in this organization. Man, there's a lot of well, what do you want to do? What do you want to do? What do you want

to do? Instead of Hey, guys, we need to look at it this way and push forward to try and make that happen. That's why these two are the elder statesman of the Draft Show. But guess what we've got. We've got some more members of the Draft Show. And that's the cool thing about twenty twenty is the fact that we can just call up whoever and get them to be a part of the show. So, hey, how about that, Jeff Kavanaughs, here what I will have You know,

I was not invited, Kyle. I just heard that day was gone, and I thought, and I thought, I thought, you know what, you guys are gonna need somebody who's incredibly reckless and irresponsible to go with Bucky and Brian. So I volunteered and I texted everyone and I was like, hey, let me in, let me in, and so here I am.

What's up, guys. I kept getting text messages and it was from Jeff and it was from Chris and it was like in the middle of the show, it was like, hey, can we get do we need a fourth do we need a fourth? I felt like we were playing pick up basketball. Y're like maybe call of duty war Zone. I don't even know. It was just like like, hey, do we need a fourth? Can we run with four?

Let's do it. I'm glad to have you here, Jeff and Jeff, we're kind of talking about the allocation of where the power goes in terms of building an identity. Is it the coaching staff, the scouting department at the front office. From this Cowboys standpoint, I know you've got

kind of heard the last couple answers there. Do you have an opinion on where that power is and how it's going to kind of affect the draft going into a Well, I guess I'm a wildcard here because I think your identity is basically just your best players, like to the Pittsburgh Steelers. For a long time, I remember my favorite games to watch in the NFL were Steeler raving games because I knew I was just going to get people hitting each other in the mouth over and

over again. And it seemed like that lasted for a decade. But like Pittsburgh drifted to an offensive team because that's who their best players were, and now they kind of got the defense going again. So I guess for me, the identity of this team is Dak Prescott or the identity of this team was that offensive line being able to open holes and protect your quarterback. So I don't know. I kind of struggle with things like identity because I just think if you gathered me the best players, my

identity is going to be that I beat everybody. It's gonna be awesome. Like you know, not necessarily, our identity is Emmett Smith is going to carry this ball twenty five times. Our identity is we're better than you and you can't stop us. Yeah. I think from a philosophical standpoint is Jeffrey would be if I told you a play like a cowboy, what does that mean? Like a swat level of being able to identify it? Like, what does that mean? I mean, I want like a physical thing.

When we talk about the Ravens, play like a raven is hard nose, tough, physical, high instincts. They play to a certain standard. I just wonder with the Cowboys, who has said, a this is what we're about, this is who the players must have, these trades they must have when they come into the building. I'd like to think guys would want to play like Tank Lawrence when they become a Cowboy, because I think if somebody like that could be your identity would be great. But I'll be honest.

When you're thinking about the Cowboys, I consider their identity to be linked to Jerry Jones, and I think his identity is everybody. You know. You can build an individual brand here. You can be incredibly popular. So if you made me pick, like, who embodies the Cowboys identity, I would say it's Jaalin Smith. I would say it's individual play, individual brand, and that's the identity. And unfortunately that's one of the hurdles you got to jump with the Cowboys.

I shouldn't say that right now. All right, it was nice being with you guys today. I'll see it next time. Then he hops off and rides into the sunset. Mister captain, trade down, everybody. No, I don't disagree with what you're saying by any means. I really don't. And I think that identity maybe shifted a little bit last year when it came to thinking about the draft, because Will McClay had a bigger say in it, and like Bucky and Brian were kind of alluding to a little bit earlier.

It's it's a little easier whenever you have those scouts on top of things and the coaching staff in the front office can kind of rely on them as opposed to maybe taking the rains themselves. Now in terms of the draft this year and kind of where the Cowboys are and of course picking tenth, Brian, you said for the show when we were just kind of chatting, that you wish you wish they would have been a little bit higher just for those options. That's kind of where

it is. But is there any player or position that the Cowboys missed out on or may not have as good of a chance at at ten than they would have if they might have lost three or for their

last for instead of winning three of their last four. Well, we all hope, and we all hope is speaking for Cowboy fans that in fact that you now are in the window where you can sign Dak Prescott, and to me, ten is a little bit of a I think outside if the quarterback is something that you needed, I kind of feel like, but you're still in position where you

could trade up if you want to. But you've got so many teams that are quarterback Needy, and you know, with the Cowboys, if you don't sign your guy along term, that's maybe something you missed out on right there. But I think overall, I'm far more comfortable now. I think there's to be a great player on that board. Smith from Alabama, the wide receiver, I think could be a great player. Pits from Florida could be a great player. I'm far more comfortable taken Farley right there at ten.

You know, if you wanted Parsons, if that was a guy, there's going to be some players I believe for the Cowboys right there at ten. I think the only thing you missed out on being in the top at four is if you had to legitimately go get the quarterback because you didn't feel like that you could get your guys signed long term. You know, Brian, you talk about that. I think the bigger thing that would have happened if

you finished in the top five. You now have currency and you change the leverage when it comes to the negotiation with Dak Prescott. Now you can kind of put out those smoke setting. I was like, hey, it doesn't matter, We'll just take a quarterback and as long as like

justin fields continues to play like that. It now drives the conversation because now you're talking about maybe four quarterbacks going in the top five, and so the leverage changes and it so it gives you out if the negotiation doesn't go your way, you say, okay, cool, we'll just find we're just on a young quarterback and away we go, or we trade down and we get enough capital to

now go and feel a couple of different spots. So you lose out on that opportunity, but I think it better aligns with some of the more immediate needs of the Cowboys. Add well, yeah, and real quick check before I know you've got an opinion on this, I think that you know Cincinnati is now in a position where I believe they're at five where they're going to hold

the card to somebody trying to get up. Because Philadelphia and Jeff and I do a show every week together and we've talked about if you're the Eagles, you're looking at a quarterback at six, you're absolutely looking at a quarterback at six, and you know Cincinnati could have been that team. If you want maybe the last quarterback, you want the next best quarterback, that's five is the spot.

So if you were in that top five, to your point, Bucky, you were going to have that ability to trade back if you wanted to, or stand in there and make it. And I guess what I'll do is I'll just kick a question back to you guys like Bucky, because my thought initially is if you want to know names that you could have had at four or five and you can't at ten, we don't know. Because I remember when I used to do simulators, and we're doing mock drafts

last year. Anytime Ceedee Lamb made it to seventeen, I would just on my YouTube or whatever. I would be like, now we're going to restart this. Obviously that's not gonna happen, and well, lo and behold it did. But I think in theory, names that the Cowboys could have considered in the top five that may not make it to ten. Caleb Farley, Micah Parsons, so Penn State linebacker Caleb Farley,

maybe Patrick Certan. I think there could be names that you would have considered that because you're now at ten, don't make it there. There could be a corner or two off the board. Michael Parsons could be off the board. You could have two offensive tackles off the board. So I do think there are names not guys that I would be like, oh, I can't believe we didn't get to be in the top five. But yeah, I think some of those names absolutely could be gone when you

get on the clock. Yeah, I think. I think. I think the bigger thing now the quarterback conversation. We think about the teams at the top. So at the tip you have Jackson's I was gonna take a quarterback, the New York Jackson are gonna be in the mix, we don't know, because the Miami Dolphins are the ultimate wildcard when it comes to two and what they decide. Then you have the Atlanta Falcons at four. So three of

the top five we know. You talk about the Eagles being at six, and then behind them you have enough teams that have the interest. And so if you are in the top five and you're the guy boys, you just talk about being able to really parlay that and play other teams against one another to really maybe get a big haul. But in terms of the players, the players that will fall out of there, because we would think that three maybe four quarterbacks and go a good

player is gonna fall to them. It's a matter of are you comfortable pulling the trigger on a guy at the top ten? Does his great equate to where you're gonna have to select him at well, I think the MoCo's in front of you are probably interested in a quarterback. So if Trevor Lawrence goes one, then you've got Zach Wilson justin fields kind of in that mix for the second and third quarterbacks taken, then maybe Trey Lance maybe

the fourth guy off the board. So there's a chance for four quarterbacks to be off the board, So that way you get what would that be the fifth or sixth best non quarterback falling to you, and hopefully one of those guys fits your need at corner or at linebacker, like we said with Michael Parsons, potentially, I think Michael Parsons might fit a little bit up there in the draft.

He would be one of the names, Jeff, that I would agree with you on that wouldn't be there at ten, though he might have been there a little bit early on, maybe right after that. Five. Well, let's let's take let's take a little vote here, who's the best defensive player you guys have seen so far? Who's the best for me.

That's what I'm saying. See that, because whoever, whoever that is, that's likely to be the first player taken, I'm probably I think, well, I think we're all pretty good at this, We're all pretty good at evaluating, and I would trust anybody's opinion on this panel right now. If you said, hey, Brian, I think that Parsons is the best defensive player. Oh, by the way, Brian, I think Farley's the best defensive player. I mean, I would trust you guys to say that,

because but that's that's where you know. That's whoever, whoever the first defensive player is, that's probably not the guy it's gonna be on your board. That's not gonna be whoever the second guy you say is, Oh, that guy very well could be the guy that you have. You have the chances Draft seven for me and I have it's the most unique draft I can remember. At the top, because if you're gonna tell me Micah Parsons is the

best defender in the class, I'll say, okay. If you tell me Caleb Farley is the best defender, I'd be like, okay. If you wanted to say certain, if you want to tell me a Zizo, JILARI, the Georgia edge is the best defender in this class. I'll listen to you. I don't know, because there's no Ramsey, there's no Miles Garrett, there's no Bosa that they don't even well, Jeff. I was trying to I was trying to build you. I was trying to build you up there, Jeff. And now

you're making me feel bad about selection. I mean, you give me, give me one name, though I can't. I'm not fine personally. If it was me, there's if it had me, there's difference. If it was me, I would say Farley that I would I have and I And it's crazy to say this for a guy. Both guys did not play. There's this still last year and now and I'm thinking which one do I want to roll?

If I'm the Cowboys, I think I'm rolling the dice on Farley if you know over But to me, I don't know whoever, And it might be the teams might say, you know what, there's not a consensus number one defensive player on that board, and all of a sudden, those guys started going down, down, down down, and that you never know. At ten, you might be sitting there with you. Might be the team that picks the first defensive player.

Is what I'm saying. That that's it and that's a ten. Yeah, and Brian, I think then the conversation and goes to if we're having a debate, you talk about Kayleb Farley, do I want to take Kayleb Farley? Do I want to take Patrick Surtam because I've seen Patrick Curtan play this year, Because some of these debates are going to be decided, well, I've seen this guy this year. I haven't seen this guy in a year. I don't know if I can do it. And so this year is

unlike any that I've seen in terms of defense. I mean, defense is so far behind the offensive players and the skill players that are available that I think you have to be very very careful with you the Cowboys, not to reach and to really dig down deep to figure out which defensive player you would want to take at ten.

This is gonna be a this draft that could be when when we look back three years from now, it could be like the draft with the JJ Watt and Smith they have like there's nine great players taken and then Jacksonville took took Gabber, you know, and it's like, you know, it's like, yeah, everybody got a whole fame player, but then you took gabber. You know. That's what can

happen here. Seriously, I mean it, you know, to me, I would it's funny with all those with the defensive players on the board and Slater, the offensive tackle from Northwestern's there. I'm kind of go away to tackle. I raised in my hand after I take a bite in my turkey sandwich in the draft room and go, uh

does anybody like Slater? I like Slater Northwestern tackle? You know, I mean, there's there's some questions, but because I can say you might be the first you might be the first team at ten that takes a defense four wide. Maybe we're going Jalen Waddle, DeVante Smith, Kyle Pence, let's go yeah. Oh man, there's I mean, and that's another thing. As those wide receivers in the top ten Smith, I mean Smith from Alabama. You're kidding me? There those guys there.

I can't wait. The Smith. The Smith conversation is one that is going to be interesting because he scares me a little bit. Wait, is weights he's one hundred and seventy five and four four or four eight four four nine is fast? But is that fast enough to convince me? The offset the skinny issue because when we think about it, when was the last time a skinny wide receiver has come in and dominate the league? Because when you take

him that high, that's what the expectation is. And I just have these images of Tavon Austin all over again and the debate like, hey, don't take don't take small guys at the top of the board. I think, yeah, I think the difference would be where to go get him set up? Where to get muy. I think that's

so true. That's why I wanted to be on with Brian and Bucky because I think, like I'm fundamentally opposed to some of these ideas that it's like, well, I haven't seen a lot of this, Like the short safety, I'll take him, the short quarterback, I'll take him. I'll take him. But yeah, it looks different. It looks different. But if you're making a list of DeVante Smith's weaknesses, what is the list? I think it's he's skinny, nice, he's slight, he's slight. That's I think that there's no question,

no question, no question. Look, he's he's a fantastic prospect, He's a fantastic college player. However, when I think about, Okay, I got DeVante Smith lined up opposite Jalen Ramsey, how do I feel about that matchup? Do I feel like he's gonna be able to hold his own when people put their hands on because Brian and Jeff, you know, the first thing that people are gonna do when he's running free in space those first four games. Okay, let's walk up and let's put our hands on him, and

does he have enough to withstand that? Down after down after down ufter down. Now, the other thing would be maybe he's Marvin Harrison. So yeah, I mean like like that would be that that would be the thing. But when you look at some of the other guys that may have more like Jamar Chase and some of those other guys you just have to balance as a top ten pick, do I feel good about the skinny guy

taking him number one to be my number one receiver? Bucky, Bucky, I didn't get to do the show with you last year. What did you feel about the build of Ceedee Lamb when you watched him the build? How he physically looked. So it's funny. I think I likened Ceedee Lamb to a more dynamic version of DeAndre Hopkins because I didn't feel like Ceedee Lamb created like great separation as a route runner. But I felt like he was a catch

and run specialist. You want to get the ball to him and let him run because the best thing that he did was either after the catch or went into fifty fifty ball. And so that was the difference in my mind between him and Jerry Judy. I felt like Jerry Judy was more of the route runner, Ceedee Lamb was more of the playmaker. And that was my recent

comp too, when you guys started talking about skinny white receivers. Now, I know, Ceedee Lamb's a little bit, I guess, wider than DeVante Smith, but overall, I mean, you look at Cede Lamb out there, and he looks skinny. I mean he's got that build where he's slender and he's shifty and a playmaker with the ball in his hands. Now, I want to keep talking about these measurables. I think this is a conversation. We're gonna have it again. Kind of in the third segment, of where does this fit?

And that's why I'm glad Jeff Cavanalls on this show because I think this is going to be interesting talking about where players are physically challenged and how that kind of affects him as opposed to where it did in the past. It come drafted. But when we come back, let's do some twitter on the twenty and we're gonna go to the opposite side of the top ten. We

talked about some of the names that could fall. What about the names that could jump to the Cowboys at number ten when we return here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR pioneers ways to make lenses as unique as you. Very lux for super sharp vision, Essential Blue for protection, and Crisolved for freedom from glare. Three

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Draft Show. Glad you're with us having a lot of fun talking about this upcoming offseason for the Dallas Cowboys. In the entire NFL Draft, Bucky Brooks, Brian brought us, Jeff Cavanall joining us today, and then I'm Kyle Yeomen's just you're trying to drive the bus as always here on the Draft Show, and it's time now to jump into some fan questions via Twitter on the twenty Twitter on the Twitter there it is Chris being doing fantastic

work in the back as always. Now we're gonna start things off from a question from Christian and I like this because it kind of flip flops. What we talked about in the first segment in terms of guys who could fall in from the top ten to the tenth overall pick. But are there any names that are not being talked about right now for the Cowboys at ten that could be selected there from maybe the backside of

that top ten. So I'm gonna take these names out of the running, every one of the four quarterbacks, so Lance, Wilson, Lawrence of course. And then we'll take all those quarterbacks out of the mix. So I'm also gonna take Kyle Pitts, Kayla Farley, Patrick's Artan Slater. There is all the offensive tackles Seoul and Rousseau out of the mix as well. So that's ten names across the board that have now

flattened away from the Cowboys. I want to find somebody that's not been named there that could fall or it could jump to the Cowboys. And we'll start with you, Bucky Man. That's tough. You took away all the good players. I mean, yeah, tell you we're all the good players at the top of the thing. Um, guys, it's crazy, right, and I'm ahead reach but yeah, yeah, I'm not. I'm

not in love with this player. But I can understand how people are gonna fall in love with and I'm gonna throw the name out and I don't want to be tied to it, But Gregory Roussou is gonna be a name that we talked about and the reason why he's gonna test like a freak. He's gonna test like a free He's long, he has that production from that one season. He hasn't played this year, and people are going to imagine, particularly if the coaches are driving the process.

Coaches are going to say, man, I take this guy, I can take him to the next level. Um being a former high school receiver that made the transition, everyone is going to gamble on the upside. And in a year where you don't have certainty on defense, I just believe that people could reach for pass rushes because they coveted at a premium. And Jeff, I know you do not like Rousseau because you and I have texted about

how we both do not like Russa. So tell me why you don't like Rousseau and how that could be the case you're trying to do. You're trying to pit me against Buck to tear down the guy. He said, but he told you straight a little bit either, Okay. Um, so saying saying that I don't like Rousseau, I think would make people think, oh, but would you pick him in the twenties. No, I'm want to be very clear here. Rousseau goes in the fourth round. Okay, I want to

be very clear here. I don't I don't need a two fifty pounds, six foot seven guy who lines up at nose tackle to run around guards. Um, I'm gonna throw out a very random name because I was working through some offensive line yesterday. Because Kyle's making us reach. This is the first this is the first line. The Cowboys have an offensive line that's awesome. You're making us reach. Nobody wants this pick. Yes, Elijah vera Tucker at USC oh, I think for you acle or guard, and I think

he could play it at a high up. So I'm just gonna throw out a random offensive line name that I think is going to be a first rounder, that I think could have position versatility and is a good prospect. So you took away, as Bucky said, you took away the good players. So I'll go to this. I'm gonna go to the slightly less good players, or I'll cheat if Brian's not gonna say it, and I'll throw out Jac Horne as well. Oh jeez, Jeff to me, how many names? How many? How many names are you gonna Kyle?

How about a better control of the situation here. I'm sorry. If I were in the same room, it would be much more controlled. It's the back of the virtual Brian. I'm sorry. Oh my gosh, Kyle, who who invited Jeff? Anyway? Who Jeff? This program? My god, I don't know. Jeff. That's a very good one, man, Jac Horne, I think now and saying I'll also say this, we're gonna get

into measurables. But the Samuel kid from Florida State, I know he's five ten, but there's some Yeah, there's gonna be some people that're gonna fall in love with him. But I'll give you one that somebody I think will fall in love with and it might not be the cowboys, but he's going to come up the boards. Is Terence

Marshall from LSU the wide receiver. I have a feeling that these people are now looking at these LSU wide receivers and if you have two thousand nineteen tape but watch He's two thousand and twenty tape before he left the program, and people there's some questions, Hey, why did you bail on the program at LSU. Hey, you know,

but I'll tell you what. You watch him in this tape that the six seven games that he played, and he is the only thing that LSU has on offense, and they and teams know it, and he's still making plays. I have a feeling with what happened with the kid at Minnesota, Jamar Chase. People are gonna watch this tape and Marshall is gonna be a riser on a lot of people's boards. Probably not for the Cowboys at ten, but that's a guy to keep an eye on. In Jeff's right about porn, and I'm glad he said that.

And I'm also glad he said about the USC guard tackle. I think that was a really, really good get on his part. I really do look look to piggyback on both of you guys point. I absolutely agree Bara Tucker as someone as of interest because everybody wants position versatility upfront. You can't get enough guys that can do a bunch of different things, particularly if you're the Cowboys and you're looking at what you have and Leall Collins and Tyrn Smith and just being able to reshuffle the deck. If

Neeby that would certainly work. Terence Marshall is interesting because I want to say he was a number one receiver when he came out of high school and have him watched him when he was high school as some of these events, like, he has everything that you look for in terms of the size, the athleticism, the route running, ability to skill, and don't underestimate what Justin Jefferson's breakout is going to do for the LSU Y receivers. It's

going to change how everyone looks. And even though we say this as scouts, don't scout the helmet, you're gonna look at what Justin Jefferson was able to do, and you're going to look at him play alongside Jamarches and Marston. You'd be like, you know what, Yeah, this guy can

do it. These other guys can also do it. To your point, Bucky, I mean, I know Jeff and I have sat down and watch tape for seven years together and I always it's always like you're supposed to be watching this guy, but then you end up watching somebody else guy, and Jeff goes, hey, who is this? Who is this number seven? That what you know? Or who

is this number whatever? And you're you're supposed to be watching like an offensive tackle, but then all of a sudden, this number seven is catching every single ball and now you're going, oh, what years you at school? And then you make that mental note, Bucky. You and I've sat in those rooms. We've sat in those draft rooms and somebody brings up a name and we're like, I hate this player, but what you know I'm gonna do. I'm gonna watch this other guy is what I'm gonna Dante Smith,

We all Dote Smith when we were watching. When you're watching Rugs and you're watching absolutely a sweat. Every play is being made by the skinny kid. That's neither one of the players I'm watching, and I'm like, why isn't this new declaring he's the best one? Yeah? Alabama stupid the fact that they had Judy and Leave in the first round and the ones in this year's draft to me are better. They're better than Judy and Rugs. It's stupid what's going on in Alabama. That's the great thing.

When when that's a great thing, about Kat when he was watching take Kat was my go to guy, Like Kat, what years this kid that were that were that I'm watching here right, what year's that kid? Katie's like, Oh, he's only a sophomore process Okay, mental note, mental note next year. Yeah. Brian also wants to know their hometown

for some reason. Hello like k T versus kid from Hey you want Lucky Day, Jeff, You want to know that because there's certain there's certain places in the country that are Florida Bill played Florida Yell City will beat the seven five seven if you go to the Tide Water region in Virginia, Michael Vick and new Smith like, there's there's something in the water. And so you want to know those areas because look, you just find, you just find guys. They have a way of just KYD

give him one of those towns. Brian be like, uh huh, thought he might be, thought he might be. I knew it exactly straight off the dome. But I agree. I like Terrence Marshall Junior. I like him a lot, Brian, and I think I put him right there. And the kind of that second tier of wide receivers trying to innch into the first tier right there with maybe like a Rashad Bateman from Minnesota. Good player, that's a really good player. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I disagree with that. Actually,

I wouldn't disagree with Tony Beanery. I think I think Marshall's right there with Tony though. That's how good I think he's been over the last couple of months. Now. This comes this question comes from Connor Liftsa on Twitter, who, of course is a big draft not I love following his stuff at Connor NFL Draft on Twitter. He's fantastic. So he asked us a really good question about Michael Parsons.

He said, Michael Parsons as a pure linebacker at the tenth overall pick is a no bueno for him anyways, But what if they draft him to rush the passer for say, thirty to forty percent of his snaps? Would that make you feel better about the value of taking the linebacker at the tenth overall pick. That could also be intriguing as an edge rusher. Brian, Yeah, I mean Bucky mentioned about the versatility and stuff like that, and man, I was just for that size, you know, and he's

freakish how big he really is? I mean I was watching speaking to Freakis Xavian Collins from Tulsa. That's another freakish guy to watch when it comes to these linebackers and stuff like that. But I think the thing with I think the things with Parsons that that makes him, uh you know that this intriguing is the size. But I'm also thinking about, you know, the rush, and he's right, and I think when you you you know, the one

thing you want is you want some stoutness. You want that ability to hold up, you want that ability to be physical. And you know, this guy can make some impressive plays. He really can. But there's that scares me to death, those stretches of games where you're thinking, man, just go dominate that Purdue guy, Go dominate that Indiana guy. Go. You know, and he's just not you know, it's just

not always there for him. But as a pass rusher, you know, yeah, I mean, because what he is, that power enables him when he has to take on guards, when he has to take on backs, he could just over power people to get to the quarterback and affect the pocket. So and I think he can finish. I think there's some things that he does as a finisher that are really really good. I just wish at sixty three, two hundred and forty four pounds that I saw it like every single play. He wears a number of LaVar

Arrington back in the day at number eleven. That was a finisher. That wasn't every down sucker right there, And so i'd see that eleven at Penn State uniform. I'm thinking, Oh, he's not LaVar Arrington. And you know, and here I am. I have to pick him probably in the top ten to get him. You know, I'm gonna say this, Brian, and I'm probably too close to the kid because I've

known him since high school. One. He was a defensive end in high school and so he was more natural, I would say, with his hand in the dirt, and so he's learned how to play linebacker. The only thing that ever scares me about Michael Parsons is I would say the level of immaturity. And so some of the inconsistency is due to the immature. And I just don't

know if that light comes on as a pro. And so when I think of a top ten pick and we're talking about checking off all the boxes, I think you have to examine the football character and just make sure, particularly given it, I don't want to put this on them, particularly given the Dwayne Haskins situation and how they played out in Washington. You just want to make sure that the guy you're bringing in he is going to play to the standard. Because he gets to the game and

he's ready to play to the standard. He's not distracted by life. Well it congratulations, Bucky, you just killed the kid in the eyes of all cowboy fans. So congratulations. Yeah, yeah, everybody. Bucky just put the kid in the headline. And you know, hey, I'm just kidding, but yeah, but when you hear those things, when you talk about taking a guy that high, you want you want everything to be in line. You don't

want those questions. Yeah, the tape is good, but if you're telling me there's immaturity things, you know, that's that's just what you what you can read. I think that's the thing. I think that's the thing that you have to investigate. Like we talk about at top ten, you want to make sure we get it right. So we're trying to mitigate all the risk, and so you want

to make sure that your guys love it. And so if you come from a place where if you're gonna take an off the ball linebacker, particularly that huh you're thinking, I want someone that is like Luke Keekley in terms of the maturity or the way that they get it, or I mean even like Sean Lee in terms of just a maturity part of it. That guy has to come in because if he's coming in, he's probably coming into supplant Jaylen Smith and the love hate relationship that

Cowboys fans have with Jaylen Smith? Are you trying to replace him with someone who could potentially be like Jaylen Smith in terms of that thing, like, man, does he love it? Does he make plays? Does he feel like he's Hollywood Henderson? Or is he like what what are

we getting in the building? Well? In Parsonsincent alone in that draft, even on the deep intub side of the football, I think with some of those issues in twenty twenty kind of it gives you an odd look at how they kind of affect these prospects and how they deal with those off the field issues. One of the guys I watched yesterday, I really liked his tape, Dave and

Nixon out of Iowa, the defensive tackle. I really liked this tape a lot, but from a couple of people that I had texted about it, that had kind of talked to some scouts, they have issues or at least questions around his maturity. And this is the Big Ten defensive player of the year and somebody who put up a ton of production. But just that that mindset and

that drive. It's something that I know teams are especially looking for because maybe the Dwayne Haskins situation, because of the mental toughness that took to get through the twenty twenty season. I think there's a lot of different factors that play into that. Okay, so we got to take our second break here on the Draft Show. When we come back, I want to have a quick conversation about those measurables. Jeff wants all the weird guys when it comes to measurables, and Bucky and Brian are going to

put him in his place. Maybe we'll see when we come back here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, We're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and Cream soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor Pepper and Cream soda. Is he a newcombon. Let's music to my ears? Okay, Doctor Pepper times music to my ears and mouth new Doctor Pepper and cream soda a delicious There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why Selor pioneers ways to make

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electricity and stop using candles to see it night. It's just electricity lights up the room fast. It's more reliable than candles blowing out, and people seem to love it Nationwide candles, dear, did you just run into the wall? I have a new candle please. Historically, switching to new technology is a no brainer. Today it's AT and T five G fast, reliable, secure and nationwide. Switch to AT and T five G complicated. Five JET requires compatible plant may not be in your area. See att dot com

slash five T for you for details. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show final ten minutes here of the Draft Show, presented by Miller Light Here on Dallas Cowboys dot com. Kyle Yeoman's Brian brought us Bucky Brooks and Jeff Cavanaugh as this is the first hour long show we'll have of twenty twenty one. The Cowboys eliminated from postseason contention, so it's officially draft season here on Dallas Cowboys dot com and Brian Bucky along with David Hellman,

will be every Tuesday at ten o'clock. And then Jeff who's a part of our other crew. We've got Dame Brugler, Jeff Cavanaugh and Kevin Turner. They're on Thursdays at ten o'clock, so twice the Draft Show every single week Tuesdays Thursday's ten o'clock. Make sure and set your calendars, you set your schedules accordingly to watch us live and then listen to us after those are dated as well. But it's

exciting to be along with you guys. And we had this conversation minimally last week and I wanted to kind of revisit it, and we even started kind of talking

about it in the first segment. But how far has the league gone away from looking at the measurables, looking at the physicalities and the freaks that are coming out of the draft in terms of just the game changing type of prospects when it comes to their physical abilities, and are there going to be guys that are physically challenged taken high like maybe Kyler Murray who was picked number one overall offensively, but then there was maybe an

Antoine Winfield junior who was one of the better defensive rookies this season in the NFL. Bucky, how far is the league going away from these physical attributes and these measurables whenever they come to their draft evaluations. You know, it really depends. I think as the scouting world has gotten younger, I think you have guys who have gone away from maybe some of those traditional norms when it

comes to certain positions. But part of the reason why the measurables are the measurables is because you're trying to minimize the risk when it comes to drafting players. Like there's a reason why there's been a long history of certain guys that measure and weigh a certain thing, that have played for a long time in the league, and so you subscribe to that. So even though you may miss out on a few gems, overall, the odds suggest that you're going to get it right because they checked

off the boxes. That said, if someone doesn't check off the boxes and height, weight, speed or those things, they better have a superpower because the only way that you're going to be able to let those guys come in they have to have extraordinary traits in another area. And so when you talk about it, Cala Murray, Cala Murray may be short, but his superpower was his speed, quickness, and his ability to make plays. Baker Mayfield was more of the anomaly because he didn't have any of those

superpowered traits and was taking number one overall. But typically you have to have a superpower to go at the top of the board, right. Yeah, I'll tell you what though, Buck, he hit the nail on the head. John Dorsey took Baker Mayfield because he believed that Baker Mayfield could could command the locker room. That's why he he he liked the swagger of Baker Mayfield is why that pick was made.

He felt like that Baker's teammates would gravitate towards him, would play for would run through the wall for him. So you know that's there's certain beliefs. But Bucky's also right about these new age general managers. You know, they don't look at things like the old the Ron Wolves and the Bill Polians and the Al Davises and those people. It's a different era of general managers. I mean I've seen the list, you know, Bucky works in the NFL network.

I see the list of general managers that are interviewed for these jobs, and I'm going, who who, Who's that? But that's what's going to happen. And this group is going to change, and they're going to draft players differently. They're added to it's about players are going to be differently. They might believe in all the metrics and things like that, but man, it's like they'll just take guys and it

doesn't matter height, weight, speed, you know. And I and for the for the for the most part, I like to see that because I'm just gonna say, in this draft so far, I've seen a couple of players I mentioned Samuel from Florida State. Rondel Moore is another one from Purdum that's five nine eighty. I watch him play and I'm going, holy geez, you know, wow, Okay, I see it. You know, maybe not, you know, we'll see

where he gets in the draft and stuff. But there are some guys that they could really get your attention that that don't have ideal measurables, but they have, like Bucky's talking about, that superpower that makes them different than everybody else, and some of those measurables are incredibly important. I mean, I remember, you know, I think until it burns you personally, you can ignore or what other people try to tell you. Because, for instance, the corner who

runs four six or worse. To Bucky's point, you know, a lot of teams aren't trying to pick a slow corner because you're like, all right, how many great ones have there been? And somebody pulls out a spreadsheet of all the corners ever drafted that ran a four six and they're like, well we found two, and you're like, okay, so we should avoid that risk, and it's like, yes, now we also were going to miss Josh Norman. Sorry,

but we weren't willing to take that risk. And it burned me when I liked Tease Tabor and he ran a bad forty. Turned out he couldn't play in the league. So then Cameron Danceler. I watched Cameron Danceler cover Jamar Chase, and I'm like, first round. Then he ran in the four sixes and I said end of the second and I moved him just off a forty time. So you know, there's a reason for a lot of these things. I think some of the ones that I wouldn't worry about

as much are basically the height and the weight. I understand why you want a three cone time, I understand why a corner's got to run fast, But if you're talking about weight or height in some cases, I think those are the ones I would push back against the

most Well how about that? About this? If you watch Rashaan Slater out of Northwestern the tackle, everybody will tell you he's got short arms, and I'm watching it block Chase Young, and Chase Young they have to move him to the other side of the field to get him away from Slater. You know, they're saying, people say, oh, he's got short arms, short arms. Yeah, but he's blocking the best player in the country right now. You know, I mean, what are we? What are we doing? Here

are we? And sometimes you've become a slave to that line of thinking, and you know it it'll, it'll, it'll, it'll take you the wrong direction a lot of the times though, yeah you know, yeah, no, but I would say, like cal like outside of this, like in theory, what we're doing is a beauty pageant, right, And so if we think about the first round them getting the crown and Tierra, you just want to check off the boxes

to make sure. And so it's not like, oh I don't like a player because they don't up all those attributes? Is okay? Is this a first round player? Because with your general managers, you're going through the checklist and you're trying to figure out and approximate. Okay, where's the risk

reward factor? Is this more of a second round player based on a I like everything, but he doesn't have this, And so it's just that in a perfect world, you want your first round pick to really be a superhero that can leap tall builders in a single bound, but it doesn't always happen. Yeah, you want your you want that, like Buggy's talking about, you want your beauty patchet to be in the top ten one of the finalists. You don't want them to be like doing the number at

the end of the night. You know where the other authorty girls are kind of doing some numbers. Thank you for being in the patchet. You want Miss you want Miss Georgia, Miss Texas, Miss California. You knows Miss Mississippi. You know you want those. That's what you're looking for. Yeah, I don't even know anything about patchets, so I don't know if Hey, if you pick you pick miss if you picked Miss Trinidad Tobago in your top ten, you're gonna win the pool. Every single time. You're gonna win it.

You're gonna win the pool. Uh, real quickly, we only have a couple of minutes here, but I want to I want you each to give me a name that fits into that category where the measurables aren't necessarily living up to the tape, and where you look at the tape and you say, hey, he's a baller. The productions there, the tape is there, but he's not necessarily first round because of blank. I want to I want to know a player from each one of those guys. From you,

Jeff will start with you. Well, yeah, Gregory Rousseau. We already did this, okay, Yeah, yeah, Gregory Russeau is tall, and he's long, and he might run a good forty and he might test well athletically, and he had eighteen sacks in a single season against decent competition. What's not to like? And I think I just I watched that tape and I came away from it going then ain't a first round player, And I have no idea why

people are talking about him in the top ten. I'm gonna gonna be the positive because I felt like I was negative early with Mica. So I'm gonna go up. I'm gonna give you a name. Aman Ross Saint Brown and the wide receiver from USC. He's probably gonna come in a little under the standard stuff, but in terms of being a baller, he's an absolute ball and he has someone as Steve Smith old school Steve Smith to him in terms of his competitiveness and Gruit deskn serving

will because I think he's gonna outstad in pro. Yeah, you know, I've mentioned Samuel, a bunch from Florida State. I think somebody's gonna get a hell of a football player there. I love I love the fact that all these players have their dads were NFL players. Samuel Well, you know you're gonna watch the Clemson tape. You're gonna say, oh, the taller guy got him. Taller guy got him. But if you watch all his tape, all the opportunities he had, this kid goes out there and he plays hard every

single snap. He makes plays on the ball, he could cover, he could tackle. I mean, he's kind of a blockdown tackler, but he's aggressive, he's he goes after you. I think people are gonna fall in love with him. I hope they give him the benefit to the doubt because of his height. Though he might be at the bottom of the first round, somebody might take him into second. But he's gonna be a hell of a football player for somebody. I'm sorry, Kyle, I thought we were doing negative things.

I didn't realize we were doing positive things. So I thought we were just doing straight haydon. I didn't know we were doing positive things. Uh. Then I also want to piggyback. I want to piggyback on what Brian saying and throw out another corner. Elijah Molden at Washington Baller. I don't care about your height. Come on down. But to Bucky's point, I'm not picking in the first round because you're right. Yeah, a good player. His dad was.

His dad was a good player. Elijah's a really solid player. A lot of versatility too. Somebody somewhere, some way, Isaiah Stanback is smiling with his U dub on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Hey, hey, for a short guy. Don't forget Nick Bolton, flynebacker Missouri, Missouri. Oh yeah, yeah, don't forget him. I mean he's probably he's probably gonna be taken down towards the bottom, but he needs to be more up to the top. Don't let that six foot height scary

at all. Number ten bron love it man, Hey, Buckie, Bucky told me, Parsons just kind of out there. That's not what he's saying. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say Bolton is not gonna have that those issues he's gonna He loves football. I could tell watching tape. He loves football. He loves it, he loves it. We've got to get our background information on Nick Bolton from Bucky Brooks. Whenever we get an on here a couple of weeks. That's gonna do it for us here on the Dallas Cowboys

dot Com Draft Show. Be sure to join us on Thursday at ten o'clock. We've got Dane, Jeff, and Kat breaking things down for you as we continue on here into the twenty twenty offseason, just one hundred and thirteen days away from the NFL Draft. But for Bucky Brooks, for Jeff Cavanall, thanks for popping on with us, Jeff, for Brian brought us, and for Chris Beam, I'm Kyle Yoman saying so long. We'll see you next time on

the Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club