Draft Show: How Costly Are These Wins?

of the NFL season. Welcome into the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. It's episode three of the twenty twenty one draft and I'm glad to be back alongside Brian brought us repertus Joe Burrow Jersey because those LSU Tigers got themselves a win this week over the Florida Gators. And you can see David Hellman he's pretty happy. That's how he celebrated his birthday was by the win of the LSU Tigers. And then we've got Bucky Brooks as well, Chris Beam holding down the fourth back at the Star

in Frisco. And who wants to start Brian Dave, who wants to start about these LSU Tigers. I want to kind of get it out of the way early. I want to kind of talk about it. I love Brian's jacket, so I think I'm gonna let Bronas go first here. But that is a fantastic hoodie with the Joe Burrow reppin and all. I mean, how happy are you that you finally got that win and it was against the top ten opponent as well. Yeah it was. We were a shoe in all the time to win the things.

So yeah, it was a great thing for the for the Tigers to get that victory. And by the way, let's take congratulation to Bucky Brooks North Carolina tar Heels putting it on ye. Yeah, I mean this is say, this is a winning this is a winning combination right here. But good for anytime your program gets a big victory, it makes your week a whole lot better. And we had a lot of good weeks last year this week this year, we haven't had this many, but it was

nice to get one against that crew. I can actually tie this back to the Cowboys because if you're if you're a Cowboys fan listening, you understand I'm not asking you to win every game. I'm just asking you to look like a competent football team, and that has not been the case for the Cowboys or the LSU Tigers this year. But hey, they they both did it this weekend. So nice of them to both put on a good show at the same time for a change, because that

hasn't happened a lot in twenty twenty. Yeah, Bucky, I mean I feel like all of our teams won. So the Cowboys won, we got LSU a dub, We've got UNC getting the dub, we got North Texas winning, and hey, the one guy that we have a chance to get get drafted had four touchdowns. But Bucky, how did your weekend go overall? And what are you looking for? It was a great weekend. You guys alluded to Carolina and knocking off Miami and just seeing them run the ball

at will. I mean, you just don't see run for fifty yard for two running backs. But no, it was a great weekend. And then the Cowboys finally coming up and playing well. I just don't want them to win too many because then you know, you kind of out of the kind of out of the race when it comes to the top pick. So wait, which looks like Bucky. That's a that's a phenomenal point because I mean, you know,

we want the Cowboys to be good. They're they're mathematically still alive in the playoffs, but if they're gonna win a game, it worked out pretty great for us because the lah Chargers also won, so they haven't given up a ton of ground in the draft packing order. And then you know the gamble, You kind of take a gamble when you start a draft show before the season's over that you know it's gonna it's gonna look a

little weird if they make the playoffs. But you know, Washington took care of business on Sunday afternoon, and I guess we can't speak too too soon, but it doesn't look like the Cowboys are playoff plat bound right now. So now we can just sit back and see which

pick they get. Well, this is a great set way into kind of what I wanted to hit early here in this show is the fact of how costly are these wins, because at least earlier in the week, and we were talking last week of if they beat the Bengals, then they're not the third overall pick. That's where they would have been if they would have had the loss, But we were expecting them to jump to eight, nine, ten overall, kind of like how Philadelphia did with their

win over New Orleans. Now they're picking ninth in the pecking order, at least at this very moment. The Giants with the loss has them at ten, but the Cowboys with their win only moved them down to five in

the draft orders. So I ask you, guys the question of whenever it comes to these wins later in the season, and especially for those of you Bucky and Brian who have been on a scouting staff, have been a coaching staff previously, but how costly are these wins or is it still something that you want to build going in to twenty twenty one. Yeah, I think they're You know, it's when you start to think about going for that you you see, you want to win the games. You

absolutely want to win these games. And so you know, as a front office, you know, because that's your job that now fans on the outside when the season doesn't look right, you know, when you know you're not going to really go anywhere, when you really don't have a shot, and you start to think about what's the best way to help our football team, and the draft is the

best way to do that. You know. The draft is the way that you know, if you get to pick high in every single round, you give yourself a shot to go and get players to make a difference for your football team. And so, yeah, front office guys they

want to win that, you know, that's their job. Fans that understand the big picture of things, Yeah, these these wins, they come at a cost because there's gonna be differences when we really start getting into this and the different tiers of players and the ones you're going to have available to you. Uh, that's you know. I tell my folks all the time that listen to me, Hey, when you win these games, don't complain to me when I tell you you're going to pick the fourth best corner

and not the first best corner. So that's where this thing will fall for a lot of these as we go forward here. Yeah, Brian, you make a great point, because front officers are tasked with winning. The coaches are coaching their tails off because they not only want to win, but they want to get some of this heat off

of them for a disappointing season. However, I still think as a scout, you kind of look towards the draft and you're trying to figure out where there's strengths and weaknesses, and if we fall too far, we could put ourselves in a shallow pool when it comes to the positions of greatest need. And so when I look at the Cowboys sitting at five, you're still in good shape. But now if you win some more games, it changes the dynamic with some of your biggest needs and some of

the players that could be available at those spots. You know, it's I talked about this yesterday on Cowboys break is. I don't mind at all that they won that game. First of all, as we saw, like even against the bad Cowboys team, the Bengals are another level of bad Bucky. You alluded to that when you previewed him last week, Like you like the last thing you told us was like, if the Cowboys can't beat this team, I don't even know.

I don't even know what to say. So on like, first of all, it maybe it was never realistic to think the Cowboys could lose that game. I also think, you know, you want to establish a winning mindset, Like I don't think it's good for anybody, coaches players, anybody to just like lose out the rest of the season and finish with, you know, three wins. I don't. I don't think that's a good idea. So I don't mind

that they won that game. Like I said, like it hasn't moved them in the draft order too much because of what else is happening around them. But I will say, if if you're getting if you're getting up to five or six wins, now I'm getting nervous about the the talent that's going to be available to you because I actually I looked at this before we went on the show, like the Chargers are gonna lose some more games, Like they've still got a game against the Chiefs, they got

to play a pretty decent Raiders team. Carolina's playing Green Bay. Think they've got Washington as well. Atlanta's playing the Chiefs as well as the Buccaneers, who are in a wild card chase right now. Like a lot of these teams that are around the Cowboys are definitely going to lose

some more games. So it's cool that they beat the Bengals, but every win they get for the rest of these three weeks stands to really affect them in the draft order, and I would probably advise against doing too much more. Winning well with this win against Cincinnati, ultimately they lost out.

It was the Pinna Seul Bowl, And right now it seems like you have lost out on Pina Soul offensive tackle out of Oregon, and we're going to get into just how good he is and where he compares with the rest of the offensive tackle should the Cowboys potentially want to go in that direction later in the draft

or at least whenever they end up picking. But I kinda want to ask you guys about the difference between a top five prospect and a player of another prospect with a first round grade, because that's kind of what we're talking about right now, is if you're going to be in the top five, you're gonna have a top five guy. But if you're going to be in five through twelve or even five through twenty, especially with this draft class, you're going to be limited with the talented

prospects that you have. But Brian, whenever it comes to separating these guys into those tiers, what goes into that and what's the biggest difference between those players? Well, the biggest difference I think, and when you watch these players, it's clear when you have those players that have that rare top five talent. When you sit down in that war room and watch tape with everybody and then listen to the area's scout describe the player. Listen to the

regional scout, describe the player. Listen to the cross checker describe the player. It's like you're watching that tape and you're like going, Okay, I see every single thing that those scouts are talking about right now. My own eyes can tell me that. I mean, there is a clear difference when you get to the top of that draft. And you know that's why when you stack your board from that one to one fifty and you put them in order of how you would take them, it's clear

those guys have that, you know. I mean I used to always the night before the draft, I would say this, Uh, I'd look at the board. I'm saying, please, football guys, let the tags glow of the ones that are gonna be all pros, you know, just let him glow for me so I can. I could see that. But with these top, these top guys, you could tell, you know exactly maybe the traits, the characteristics, the way they play on tape, the way they handle their interviews and stuff

like that. I mean that the pieces all come together. Now when you get down towards the middle of the board, maybe the traits aren't as pronounced, and it's kind of like you're sitting there going, okay, we're having to dig a little further, and maybe he's comparing to this guy. He's this guy's got a couple more traits than this guy.

And oh wait, the interview puts him over here, and so yeah, it's it's it's a little bit more of they have of a putting the puzzle together at the middle to the bottom as it is to top those those tags at the top. You know that those guys up there could play football. Now you bust on him sometimes, but also then you have times where those guys are

your Hall of Fame type players as well. So it's funny, Run I learned this from you going all the way back to when I was playing in Green Bay and we were at a workout in Carolina, and I don't know if you remember, it was Brian Simmons linebacker that went to Cincinnati in the first round, and was Kay Mays who was a linebacker from Carolina that went to the fourth round to the Minnesota Vikings, and we're sitting there watching the workout and and watching the workout. One

guy was super explosive, super dynamic. You could just tell and you whisper to my heir, that's the dish between a first rounder and a fourth rounder. And so to bring it in the first round. When you think about a top five player, a top five player has typically all of the blue chip traits, size, athleticism, production, he's dominant. He's a guy that you can easily see as a top two or three player in this position really quickly.

A first round guy may have eighty to ninety percent of the traits, but when you look at him, you're like, Okay, he can be a starter. He can be a starter right away. He's gonna make that contribution. I think the best example I can give right now recently is the game that Chase Young had on Sunday. That is what a top five player is supposed to do right away, Like when you put them on the field. It is easily readily inapparent like okay, yeah, we gotta do it.

Shouldn't take you a lot of time to go through the tape and do all this other stuff to figure out if you can play. Because if you're spending that long debating he's not a top five guy, it stands out it's easy. I mean, it's it's the easiest guy that you can get. Like, okay, yeah he's a guy. Now how high do I want to put my grade on?

But you know, a top five player when you see when it stands out, I completely I was just gonna say when you you said earlier that you were okay losing or winning this game whenever it comes to the Cincinnati Bengals game. But it's the reason why you you are a little bit more at peace about the win is because maybe those top five guys and those guys that are dudes, and the guys that stand out like Bucky and Brian just said, just aren't necessarily the same

caliber of guys that we've seen in other drafts. Exactly what I was about to say is, you know, I don't want to put any words in anybody's mouth, but I think we would all agree that there's not a Chase Young in this draft class, right. I mean, other than maybe maybe you feel great about one of the quarterbacks, but in terms of all the other positions. I don't think you have that slam dunk guy that's just got to go in the top two. And I'm actually, you know,

I was. I was looking at other draft classes, and I agree with everything they said, like there's typically a clear difference between like your top five can't miss guy and then everybody else. But then you know, you gotta keep in mind too that all of these teams are going to evaluate guys different and beauty is really in the eye of the beholder. You got to give coaching staffs a chance to get in there and mess everything up,

like we always joke that they do. I mean, like, right right off the top of my head, you know, Chase Young was the obvious number two guy. Jeff Okuda goes number three. Who goes number four in last year's draft, Andrew Thomas, which surprised a lot of people, and a lot of people would have told you he's probably the least promising of the big offensive tackles, and maybe the best of them is either McKay Beckton, who went to eleventh, or Jedrick Wills, who's been playing so great for Cleveland

helping their offensive line. He goes number ten, and the reason I bring these things up or even you know, last year, nobody thought or two years ago, I'm sorry, nobody thought Cleveland Ferrell would be the third overall pick to the Oakland Raiders except for Mike Mayock. And then Daniel Jones goes sixth overall, which floored a ton of people, and all of a sudden, a guy like Josh Allen is sitting for you there at seventh overall. And I bring all of this stuff up to say, yes, you

won as high of a pick as possible. Yes, the blue chip players are typically at the top of the draft, but stuff happens every year that gives you a shot at these type of guys later on in the process.

And that's why I'm not gonna lose sleep if the Cowboys pick seventh instead of fourth, because especially in a year like this where I don't think there are as many slam dunk prospects at the top of the draft, I just I think it'll work itself out to where you have a pretty good player sitting there for you

even if you fall a little bit. Now, let's talk about one of those those blue chip guys really quickly before we take our first break, but the Cowboys losing out on pina Soul with the win potentially because like Dave just said, things could happen. He could fall to you, but how much different is pina Soul at the offensive tackle spot, Bucky when it comes to the rest of these offensive tackles, Where does he compare and how much of a difference is it if the Cowboys wanted to

go offensive line in this first round. No, he's a unique talent. He's a unique talent because he's a big, athletic edge player who has the ability to get to the next level two plays with great ballot, has the nasty that you want to see on the edge, and he's dominant and disruptive. You know. I think the biggest thing that stood out to me is I had a chance to talk to Marlon Davidson from Auburn last year here and Derek Brown, and I asked him who is

the best offensive linement that you saw? And I'm thinking they're gonna say sec guy, maybe Andrew Thomas whatever. And to a man that said, o'penny swell is real. They say he has a level of dog and national's to him that we were surprised because look, West Coast Pac twelve. You don't really see that kind of player, and so he's a talented player. Mario crystal Ball squears by him, says he's one of the best guys that he's ever been around, and given who's been exposed to I think

it carries weight. I think the one thing that you worry about because he hasn't played like just kind of where is he? But when I looked at him up close last year justin Herbert's Pro day, he is not a big man in terms of fat or whatever. Everything is together is locked and loaded. I mean, he's a body beautiful type. Considering your six six, three hundred and thirty pounds, you just don't see guys built like that

that I can also move and play like that. Yeah, and guys, what you're doing is you're watching a nineteen year old play right now too. You know this is not a This is not a guy that's an older guy. I mean, and you know, yeah, you're having to watch that tape from last year. And if you do watch the Auburn tape, if you get an opportunity, that was that was a tough game. There were a couple of games where he had some he had some games. You can watch Auburn USC you can watch the Washington game.

I mean there were some times where he had his hands full. But you have to remember he's nineteen years old, he's six six, he's three hundred and thirty pounds. The ease of movement is incredible with this guy. And I you know, I you know, anytime you you talk about you know, guys that can play at space, can get to the second level, can you know, make the backside cutoffs?

Can you know it just can hammer guys at the point of attack, get to movement in the running game when you have to do that, create a lane when they're running the ball. These are all things that this kid can do. And you know, the ease movement, it's just it's almost effortlessen And again you're watching tape of a nineteen you will play and so you know, is there some things he could work on? Yeah? Absolutely. I there's times in that Auburn game where I didn't think

he finished great. But that's again the level of competition. You want to watch these guys play against the best, and that will kind of they'll paint a picture of really with the type of player that he is. But there's some other tackles in this draft. I think that that Merrick consideration too. This is just not a one tackle draft. I think there's a couple of guys in

here that could really help a football team. Yeah, I think you've got guys like ray Shon Slater, Samuel cosmey derres All from Virginia tack There are multiple offensive tackles that could go in the first round, but they're just not what Penne Soule is And that's one of the reasons why he's one of those blue chip guys that Bucky and Brian were just talking about a couple of

moments ago. But when we come back here on the Draft Show, we're gonna go to into Twitter on the twenty one of those questions, how far could the Cowboys trade down and still get a quality prospects somewhere? Jeff Kavanaugh is smiling listening to those words. We'll hear about it next when we come back here on the Dallas

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of your Dallas Cowboys. Here it's nineteen oh eight. Don't you think we should get electricity and stop using candles to see at night? It's just electricity lights up the room fast, It's more reliable than candles blowing out, and people seem to love it nationwide. Well, dear, did you just run into the wall? I have a new candle please. Historically,

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now for a little bit of Twitter. On the twenty. I don't know if we have a play back in the background there it is, okay, I talked right over but that's okay, But yes, Twitter on the twenty it's a little different doing it virtually, but hey, Chris Bean holding it down the four back at the studio. Let's go to Tony Baker. And this is the one that I tease going into the break boys. How could the how far could the Cowboys trade down or drop I'd put it out in parentheses to still get a quality

player in this draft. And this is kind of talking about trade doown potentials and what you would get for those trade doowns, but just specifically, whenever you're talking about draft position in this first round, Bucky, where could they fall for the Cowboys to still get a really solid player that can make an immediate impact. I mean, Bryan would know this. Ron Wolf would always tell you there's anywhere from twenty two to twenty four players that are

really first round players. And so I think when you get too low in the first round, you put yourself out of the market to get what we call a blue chip player. And so I understand like the novelty of trading down, but if there's a good player sitting

right there, I'm about getting good players. And so I think when you do this, you do this looking at the board and understanding where that cluster of players at positions that you may really really want, where that line is, and you put yourself in position to make sure that you don't miss out on a player that you deem to be a guy that can come in right away

and make contributions. Yeah, Bookie's absolutely right. You know. The one thing that we learned in Grey and it's something I carried over to the places, and you know, and had discussions with other teams I was with, is you never want to trade away from a great player. You just don't. You just I mean, I don't care. And and scouts are guilty of gimme picks, gimme picks, gimme picks, you know that kind of thing. But you know, you

need to stand in there and pick a player. If you've got a guy on that board that's that you feel like, man, this guy could come in, he could start for us, he could play for us for two contracts and be great standing there and make that pick, you know. And and I kind of feel like, though, then even if you got even if you were say it the in the four whole picket and you're and it's not the board doesn't really fall the right way for you. You know, if you take your highest rated guy,

you're gonna probably be okay. And so I just don't see dropping from like four to twelve and then having to sweat those picks in between. There could be a level where you feel like, okay, let's take for sample, all these cornerbacks. You know, maybe you don't feel like they're all top four on your on a board overall, but maybe when the stack hits they're somewhere around seven,

eight nine, right around there. Now, if you can make a deal where you could go down a couple of spots and grab those guys, and your intelligence tells you that the teams between you are not going to take a quarter or somebody's not going to come up there and jump, you know. That's why I feel like, though

you can, you can make those kinds of deals. But to sit there at bail from four to eighteen just to get some picks, I don't think that necessarily is the right way to run your draft sounds kind of sounds kind of cowardly, Brian, to be honest with you, like let's let's have some. Let's have some. I'm kidding. I can't even say that with a straight face. I'm sorry. Yeah, you're talking about trade. You want to trade back to keep. I just want to point that, like I feel like

it's my duty. I just feel like people get tunnel vision when it comes to the draft, like there's only one way to do it. You gotta pick here. You know, I'm not I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to people that are listening. But I think it always depends on what are you getting in return, what do you think is there? How far are they asking you to go, like in a vacuum. Let's just say the Cowboys are going to pick in the top ten, and I think

they probably will. If I'm if I have a top ten pick, I would feel real leery about trading past like fourteen or fifteen, unless it is for excessts, for just a total haul of picks. Having said that, though, I think this is a really interesting point again going back into recent history. Twenty seventeen draft, the Buffalo Bills hold the tenth overall pick. Now they should have picked

Pat Mahomes. Everybody should have picked Pat Mahomes. I totally understand that, but they don't because Kansas City wants him. So they bail all the way to twenty seven. They get a third round pick and next year's won, they find an All Pro corner in Tredavious White, and then they use the first to get Josh Allen the very next year. And Josh Allen is not Pat Mahomes, but he seems like he's on a really nice trajectory to

be a very good quarterback. So when I hear that, I say, man, you can trade back really far, get some good resources and still find a good player if you know what you're doing. Now. Would I want a trade all the way back to twenty seven, Absolutely not. But I do think it's interesting that a team did that and still managed to have it work out really well. Well, it worked out for the Cowboys if you look now. It didn't work out for the compensation and they got back.

If you remember the Travis Frederick trade, they basically go from like eighteen or thirty or thirty one, and you know, and they should have got a two in compensation. They took the three. So you know, because they bailed because they just panicked and got out of there. You take less compensation if you're going to get a haul that

makes sense for you. You know, it's for example, if you trading with a team for like next year's one, and that's a team that might be like a team that gets back in the playoffs the next year, and then that that pick turns into twenty two or twenty three. Yeah, it's a first round pick, but you would like to just try and get as many high picks you know

going forth. This this to me, this is about trying to fix things now and if I can, if I can get a bad team behind me that wants to move up, and I know that they're pick they're about to give me, or two picks they're about to give me in this current draft are high picks, and they're kind of maybe right around where my picks are gonna be. I'll double dip all day. I'll absolutely double dip all day.

I just don't want to see I don't feel like that we need to see this massive drop, you know, from from say five down to eight and then oh yeah, I mean I don't know. Yeah, it worth great for Buffalo, but does that in this a team that needs to take quality players now? Is that really the best player. I think the danger in all of it is because it's really cute on the outside to kind of move and if you lead the board as they say, and he looks like fantasy a fantasy football draft. I did this.

I did that. I think at the end of the day, it should always be players over picks. If you get enough good players, the picks don't matter. And even if that means sometimes in trade, because we've seen in recent years teams have given up picks to get players Jamal Adams, Stefan Diggs and others. It is about can you identify the player and how he would fit into your system

versus what's behind door number two? And so I'm more likely to just a I found a player that I like, I'm gonna take the player, and I'm gonna live with the stuff, as opposed to getting a couple of extra picks that I don't necessarily know if I'm a hit on or not lucky. Do you still think that's the case.

Whenever you're in a Cowboys standpoint and this defense, it's more than one player, more than one guy, And that's kind of where I think Cowboys fans are looking at it is they're not just one player away on defense. They're only they're more than just that one guy from making a big difference. They want multiple darts at the dark board to try and find a player to work out for them, and maybe multiple players to work out for them. But do you stick with that same kind

of mindset even with the situation the color? I mean, I think everything is always negotiable, depending upon what it is. But I would rather have one A player than a bunch of b's and c's because the A player players can make a difference, and his ability to dominate and disrupt will allow everybody else to look like a good player. And so if that's a pass rusher, well, a great pass rusher then impacts the way that you cover because you don't have to cover as long. A great cover

corner impacts the pass rush. So a lot of it depends on the player. But if I can get an A level player, I'm more likely to get that player as opposed to kind of wait on a bunch of guys where I have a bunch of numbers, but I may not have the same kind of production and disruption. Well, here we were talking about the cowboys picking high, and we're talking about offensive players at the top of the board.

You know what I'm saying, We're talking about offensive tackles and stuff like that, and so that just goes to show you though that you know, might necessarily the way I'm looking at the top of this draft board, there seems to be more of better offensive players than there are defensive playoffs. So you know, to your point, if you feel like, well, we're not going to take these you should take these offensive players. They did it with Ceedee Lamb and it's worked out for them. So but

I agree with Bucky. I just feel like, though you're better off taking the guy that you feel like that has those traits that he mentioned earlier that can help you. And then we'll work the draft from here on. If we have an opportunity to move in the second round or third round and pick up some of those extra guys, that's not a problem for me to deal with right then and there, Let's go on to our next question.

This one comes from Brandon and Hooper, and this kind of has something to do with a little bit of what we're talking about. But the Cowboys double bit last year at cornerback, what two positions, So we're gonna try and get a couple of opportunities to talk about it here. But what two positions could the Cowboys double dip on the draft this year? David Hell cornerback, just do it again, because you know, we don't know what the future holds

for Cheeto, Woozier, Jordan Lewis. I mean, Anthony Brown is still here, but you know that's you probably don't feel one hundred percent comfortable with that. You obviously have Treyvon Diggs, but they're they're gonna turn over the cornerback depth chart again this year. And then really any position on the d line, but I'll say edge rusher um just because you know, again we don't know what the future holds for Aldon Smith. You have Randy Gregory and DeMarcus Lawrence,

but you'd probably like a little more juice there. Doren's Armstrong is not in a contract year, but he's nearing the end. He's closer to the end of his rookie contract in the beginning. And again, I mean, this is not some crazy fierce pass rush. Maybe maybe you don't double up and draft two defensive ends, but a defensive end and the defensive tackle. But they need pass rushers. And they need cornerbacks. And I would say safety, but they'll just disappoint me again, so I won't. Oh, he's

not wrong about the safety. I mean, I was thinking to myself, Kyle, when you asked the question, I double dip a safety. But I know they won't draft the safety now maybe maybe maybe this is maybe now. And I was talking to some guys. I was talking some scouts about this, and I asked that question. I'm like, why why no safeties? And they're like, you know, looking back on it, we had all those safeties during the

Tristan Hill draft. And he goes, there was just such an influence from Rod Marinelli about Tristan Hill that we got, you know, went that direction. You know, all those safeties were sitting on the board. They could have taken, you know, they could have taken any one of those guys, and they and they didn't. They passed. I have a feeling now that they, you know, this is very eye opening

to them. What happened to them, not only a corner, but what's happened at safety, what's happened at defensive tackle, what's happened at linebacker. I mean, you could draft any position. I've said this before. I think they double dip the corner. But man, there's got to be a safety in that mix. And I'm not talking about in the sixth round. I'm talking about it. There's a second round safety up there that they sure need to consider that a direction to go.

You know, Brian's funny because I think it's important that the listeners and viewers kind of understand when we're talking late round, fourth and seventh rounders. Brian, you know, in the draft room, we're talking about developmental guys, and so if you really want to shore up a position, then you double up. You double up high. You don't double up with a second rounder, and in a fifth rounder

you go big. So if I got two twos and I'm throw both of them at corner and then let them duke it out a two dolls one bone, I'm willing to do that. But I think you have to make sure that the positions that you really are concerned about within the first three rounds, you have to throw a couple of darts at those positions. And if something in the lower state the later stages, that's great, But in the first three rounds you have to find guys

that can play and they can play right away. I like that, and one final question here on Twitter on the twenty and then we'll move on to our final segment. But this was just really quick and this is actually revisiting a question from last year. This is kind of what the theme has been on Twitter on the twenty today. But who would have a better combine today? A former athlete Brian brought us or a younger but non athletic. I guess is what his words? Not mine? That was

Philip non athletic David Hellman. So who would have a better combine today? I'll let Bucky start us off here, so you know, like so the thing that you're trying to identify in the background is you want to see who is the guy that is kind of the scrapper. And I just I get a sense just from being around Dave Helman that he is scrapping. And so when we're doing the three cone and the shuttles and all that stuff, I think it's all about the preparation. Like he's the guy that kind of strikes me up to

day starts at one o'clock, twelve o'clock. He's on the turf like kind of going through his self, getting mine, right, So I'm gonna go with Hillman. Nope, Nope, no disrespect to Brian brothers, but I just kind of see I see Hillman just kind of I'm gonna make this happen. It's my last chance. I gotta get this done, and so I kind of see him doing it. I see him pulling it off. I really, well, I really appreciate that, Bucky, but I don't I don't think I can. I don't

think I can go along with that. I mean, Brian wins an SEC athlete and he's still he still works out to this day. My man gets on the treadmill and does three miles like it's nothing. I think he'd probably say that I'd roll up to the pro day with like a fifth of jack in my hand. So yeah, I don't know, you forgot, you forgot the cigarette hanging out of the quarter of your mouth like hey, But but Brian would tell you. We've had some players that I played with that rolled up like that, and they

were pro bowlers. So it doesn't come. It doesn't coming great back. Hey, I'll say this, I think Buck Buckie is a great scout and he's absolutely right watching me in a Pro day would be painful. I'm fifty seven years old now. If it was a Pro Bowl of running a marathon, I'm all in. But it's not a day running a marathon. I'm not in. But the thing that the thing I have no bend. I have no flexibility. The shuttles would be bad. I would miss the line every time. I would try and cheat the line on

the forty, I would crowd the line. Gorshack, the guy that blows the whistle, would always be bringing me back because I'd be jumping the jump in the line. And then finally he'd let me run. Coughlin would tie me at the ten. It would be like about four seconds. Yeah, I mean, it's you know, and it would just be a disaster. The law, the broad jump would be bad. The vertical would be bad. I think it's probably it's probably in everybody's best interest if we just talk about

it and don't put it. Put it okay, Yeah, oh I I wholeheartedly. I'm sure you do. Fail. The interviews, I would be a bad interview. Like the next day. The next day on the NFL network, Buck he would say, Hey, I'm hearing that brought us really poorly. In the interviews, you know that's thought was punched a coach when he asked him a tough question. Throat. Oh, I feel like I feel like this has to be a post COVID event that needs to actually happen, so I think it

doesn't need to just be taught. But I also appreciate how analytical buck he was in that whole answer. Like you could have taken a snippet out of that and put it right up next to his analysis of these other players. It wouldn't have been any different. Like he actually had thought it out, he was ready to go. I appreciate that. Thanks for the question, Philip. That was a bunch of Hey, let me say this though real quick. Guys,

let's all go to Indianapolis and meat. Hopefully we could do that, and I'll buy everybody a steak dinner at Saint Elmos and we will have no Okay, we'll have a contest to see you. Yeah, we'll see who can eat a tomahawk chid. That's what we need to go. I'm in on that. Yeah, we put a put a shrimp cocktail in there. I'll be right there with you, and I like that. How about that? All right? Well, when we come back here, on Talking Cowboys. Is there

a clear quarterback number two behind Trevor Lawrence. We'll discuss it next. Right after the break, we're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor pepper and cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor cream Soda. Is he a new combone. That's music to my ears? Okay, doctor time, music to my ears and mouth. New Doctor pepper and cream Soda a delisious. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why Selor pioneers

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G for you for details. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Final segment here of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, and we're running out of time. We were gonna try and hit some of the corners, top five corners and a cluster of those guys and kind of where they rank out. We're gonna have to save that for next time because these guys will be back on December twenty ninth. It'll be a late Christmas gift for everybody on the draft, but this group will

be back in a couple of weeks. But I want to hit these quarterbacks really quickly because we've been getting a lot of questions on Twitter. Bucky Brooks, I'm sure you've been hearing a bunch about it with your coverage on the NFL network. But right after Trevor Lawrence, there is a cluster of quarterbacks, Trey Lance, Justin Fields, Zach Wilson.

I mean, there are so many different guys that could be considered as that quarterback number two, And I'm interested to see where you guys think those guys are at the moment. Brian, We'll start with you, who's your quarterback number two and how close are they together behind Trevor Lawrence? And hey, maybe Trevor Lawrence isn't your top guy. Yeah, I've got Justin Fields is my number two guy. I just think the actors see the mobility, the size, the way he protects the football. I know he had a

bad game the other last time out. He had some interceptions they throw, but overall, you watch him, he can make all the throws. He can stand on the right hash he could throw the ball all the way to the sidelines. He's got touched down the field, the way he manipulates the poet, the way he moves around, the way he keeps his eyes down the field. I'm a big, big fan of his. I'll tell you for number three, I really like Trey Lance out of North Dakota State.

And you know this is no disrespect to Wilson at BYU, but I just feel like though that Trey Lance, I think he's got some dak Prescott trades to him. And I mean this in a way of a big, good looking athlete. The ball really flies off his hand. You watch him, of all the quarterbacks, that ball really is coming off his hand. Now he's throwing to guys, and this is no offense, no defense to those guys who offense. Thus he's throwing the guys that are some pharmacists, some accountants,

some guys that are gonna be some cattle ranchers. You know, he's throw up, and you know there's times where they put him in a bad spot. But you see the touch, you see the ball flight, and I see the toughness. I mean he is slamming into people running the football. I really like him as the number three guy, and then Wilson after that. We'll see where Trask and the others fall after that. But but Lance is a guy to keep an eye on. I think a lot of teams are going to fall in love with him. You know,

Ryan is funny. I think these three quarterbacks are all solid. I'm with you on Justin Fields, and in fact, I believe Justin Fields should be ready closer to Trevor Lawrence than not. I know that Trevor Lawrence is going to be the number one, but if you go all the way back from high school, these guys have always alternated being number one and number two in the country, having a chance to coach both of them. Both of these guys are terrific. I think Justin Fields his baseball background

should not be underestimated. We've seen guys like Mahomes and Russell Wilson and Cala Murray have success because they can do things. This is a guy that was a high level baseball player, so keep them in mind. I think the two that you mentioned after that, Zach Wilson and Trey Lance. I think, for whatever reason, Trey Lance is going to be undervalued in this draft. I think the one game showcase actually hurt him because it kind of leaves a vision and guy's mind. But if you go back,

can look at last year's tape. This guy was fantastic. I had visions of him playing in a Kyle Shanahan like system and absolutely tearing it up. He's big, six four, two twenty eight pounds. His dad played in the CFL. Football is not a novelty to him. This is a really good player. Zach Wilson is also intriguing. I don't think you can go wrong with him either. He's a

gun slinger, he has athleticism and mobility. He has a little that I would call it that Joe Burrows swag that when you're around, he has a little something to him that you like. Okay, this is not my typical PYU quarterback. He can play. I think ultimately at the end of the day, I would stack him Fields, Wilson, then Lance, And the only reason I put Lance a little bit behind is because the one year thing. But I don't think you can go wrong with those players.

I think it really goes down to going to the ice cream shop and trying to figure out what flavor do you want? Okay, So, Brian, remember remember in twenty sixteen when we fell in love with Lakwan Treadwell and it didn't work out. It was big miss, you know, didn't have the career we thought, and we were scared of the big bodied, bad route running receiver, like we were scared of all those guys for like a couple of years. So maybe maybe this is recency bias in

the opposite way because of Patrick Mahomes. But I am. I am smitten with Zach Wilson, Like I don't want to be the guy. I don't want to be the guy that passes up on this guy because I thought Bucky Bucky said it perfectly, like this guy's thumbnail. I mean, okay, he's completing He's completing seventy percent of his passes. He's got thirty touchdowns and three picks. I know he's not playing an SEC or a big tent level of competition. Who's playing a much higher level of competition than Trey

Lance did at BYU. I mean, they go and play everybody. And oh, by the way, he's a freak. This guy has got an absolute canon like he I mean, it's He's got the strongest arm I think I've seen on a college quarterback since Patrick Mahomes came out. And on top of that, he just seems to kind of have that it factor like you kind of want you kind of want your quarterback to be an a hole, like like he's an a hole, but he's my a hole.

Like nobody else likes him, but I love him. Like That's how That's how I felt about Joe Burrow Is, Like, man, if he wasn't on my team, I would hate this guy, but he's on my team, so I love him. And that's how I feel about Jack Wilson. Yeah, yeah, Zach Wilson. It's not his fault though. I mean we talk about the schedule. They had a big time schedule until the

pandemic YAP. I mean being an independent and being an independent actually hurt him because he they had Washington, they had some big games on their schedule, that's some SEC games since they were gonna play. I think that you talk about the Mahome stuff, I think you do see that that ability to move around, to to kind of stow its side, arm to drop down, you know. But I think the thing with Lance and maybe it's the old krusty guy in me. I look at that size,

I look at the way he takes the snap. I look at the way he moved and that ball comes out of his hand and stuff like that. I just really that that that guy right there. That to me, I'm like, man, that's what a quarterback looks like. But everything you said about Zach Wills, about Zach Wilson is

absolutely correct. I just don't you know, it's funny and sorry, all right, Buck, No, no, no, Dave run I think it's funny because I think now more than ever, when it comes to the traits personality and that leadership, that confidence really really matters and really coming on the heels

of it. And I'm gonna say this in Trey Lance's favor, coming on the heels of Jalen Hurts having the performance that he had against New Orleans, I think it's only going to bode will for Trey Lance because we're beginning to see the game change where you have to count total yards from the quarterback position, rush yards, pass yards and those things. And when you get a guy like Trey Lance who can do it under center, he can do it from the gun, there's a lot to light.

But I'm saying that also saying that Zach Wilson can do those same things. And so if you're a team in need of a quarterback, this is the year that you want to be in the mix because all of these guys have the trays to play in a new school stuff. And Brian, I hear what you're saying about Lance's athleticism. Zach Wilson has two hundred and fifty rushing yards and eight rushing touchdowns this season. No, no, there's no question, no question. No, you're not wrong about the player.

I just me my vision, krusty scout guy. I'm looking at I mean physically when that when I said those quarterbacks, if they stood next to each other, they said, okay, pick your quarterback for your your sideyard game. Oh here a Trey Lance, come play on my team. You know. That's that's the old that's you know, it's the same thing with I took a lot of heat for Alan, you know, coming out of Wyoming. I mean they got on me about, oh you like Alan, Why do you like he can't do I go look at him? Look

at him? You tell me, you know? So it's hey, I would have never and Bucky can attest to this. I would have never in my life thirty years in the National Football League ever believed that we were going to take a five nine quarterback one overall. Never would have saw it never never, never thought that the cope would be televised, and never believe that you're gonna take a five nine quarterback one overall, Folks, we got them both right now, So enjoy your quarterbacks. Fucking Trike. It's

your flavor of ice cream. And yeah, I think the final thing, I think your imagination and creativity now taps into it. It is really the conversation, Brian, what can he be right if we do these things around him just to help him. I think Dad has to be in consideration when we look at the quarterbacks as well.

Lots of quarterbacks up at the top of the draft, and lots of time to talk about him throughout the draft process and continue to get those values up there so that way their potential trade bait for everybody that wants to come take the Dallas Cowboys spot. But not trade down too far. Not trade down too far. We talked about that earlier. It can't do that, can't go back down that far. But that's going to do it for us here on the Draft Show today. Hope you

enjoyed it over the last forty five minutes. For Chris being back in studio, for Brian brought us, for Bucky Brooks, and for David Helmont. I'm Kyle Yeoman saying so long. We'll see you next Tuesday. Hey, here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club M