Draft Show: Hidden Gems

us once again. I really I feel like we've been doing this since December. That was last year. Though. Hey everyone, I'm David Hellman. I'm joined as usual by my guys, Jeff Kavanaugh, Brian brought us Kyle Yeoman's Brian, who's the last prosper back to you watched before today's show. The last prospect that I watched, I watched Jeff sky sky Moore. Now, yeah,

that's that's boring. We talked about him the other day. Yeah, and you know what, I think Jeff has got a lot of things that are that are accurate about him. I think he's a slot only though, I really do. I will be really interesting I'll be really interested to see if he's not as tall as Cooper Cup. He's got he's got the thickness of Cooper Cup, I mean in the lower body and stuff like that, and I think that's admirable about the guy. I just don't think

he could play on the outside. I'll be interested if he can. I'll be happy to admit it. I'm wrong, but got argument number two here. But he's Alan Petrie and now we've got sky by More back at home. No. Absolutely, guy's a really good football player. You watch him play, I mean, he makes really nice plays. He catches the football well, uh, he could separate underneath. You don't see the ball go down the field a whole heck of a lot to him run after catch is good, you know. Yeah.

I mean, but I don't have him as high as Jeff does. But I think that to me, when you watch him play, you could see NFL traits. In the NFL traits are when you throw the ball to somebody underneath and they can run after catch and they can separate in the slot and kind of use the whole field to their advantage. And I think that's a I think that's a Is that a trait that you put in the second round not for me. Where do you have him? I have him in the third round? Is

where I having myself crazy crazy discrepancy. Yeah, at the risk of this becoming the sky Moore Show. Kyle, who was the last guy watched? I watched Fair Mumford Muntford out of Ohio State. He's a guard, plays a little bit of tackle as well. UH, decent player. He wasn't like number one on my list. I have him kind of midway through maybe the third fourth or late third, early fourth, somewhere like that. Um, I'm pulling up his scouting report that I wrote on him. Frame and length,

they're fantastic someone who translates as a guard. Size helps him have position flex during the NFL, played left tackle in twenty twenty and then left guard this past season. He actually played better at tackle than he did it guard, though. If he is going to translate into the NFL, he'll probably be a guard. You can see him laboring though, every time it's the snap and he's one on one with a defensive lineman. Especially being in the big ten.

He seemed to have that that clunky feet, that backwards step and not necessarily the balance that I like to see from a top one, two or three round guys. So I have him early fourth ish. I haven't put an official grade on him, but that's kind of where I think I'm gonna put him. I love it. We're talking day three guys, because what do we do, Brian, We investigate, We educate and investigate. Yeah. What I do want to do at the top of today's show, though,

is a little more basic. I want to talk first round. Sorry, it's it's still a right and the many say you are basic. I may add another word. I won't dispute that, honestly, I really I really won't. But that's where I want to go. And we've talked about this a lot already on the show. This is a unique first round a little bit, just because it just seems to be a little bit more up in the air. There's not a

convinced consensus number one overall pick. There's a varying range for basically every guy, with maybe a few exceptions Cavon, Thibadeau, Aiden Hutchinson, Evan neil M. But the list of guys that you really feel confident going like in the top five is really short, right, So what I want to do is to just give us an idea of what the Cowboys could be facing at twenty four. I want y'all to tell me who you feel incredibly confident will be gone by then. If that makes sense, we'll be gone.

We'll be gone. We're building a list of the untouchable, a list of the guys that the Dallas Cowboys don't need to worry about. Evan Neil first one. Okay, I think it's only gonna be like eight guys. Deep. I think that's what makes this interesting to me is I think that pool of guys at twenty or is a lot bigger than maybe you would expect in a normal year.

Do you agree with that? Yeah? I think so. I think the thing about it is, there's to me with always with the number one overall, pick though, who do you feel the most comfortable with it has the least amount of holes in him? And if you feel that Neil is that guy, I'm just, you know, saying how this thing might start out. Because you say there's not a consistent somebody number one overall, somebody that everybody's talking about.

I think that's why they're talking about Hutchison, because I think that probably are people are shooting the least amount of holes in him. And you know you want that first overall pick to be a guy that like, listen, this is this is Ironclyde. This guy's gonna come out and he's gonna play. He's gonna play well for a long time. You know, you don't want to bust in that first overall pick. And I think there's some questions about Neil because we've done some podcast Jeff and I Dane.

You know, we've all talked about this. Everybody's offensive tackle order is different. I think with the defensive end position, you know, it's more of Hutchinson, Thibadeau, depending on you know, now we're starting to hear things about, well, maybe Thibodeau doesn't love football as much. So you know that's the thing about it. I think the lack of quarterbacks in the first round is what makes this thing really wide open when you get down to that area where we're

talking about where the Cowboys are going to pick. We've

talked about this in regard to Neil. I mean, he still goes off the board, but as it is, size is that the question I think there's I think the biggest question I have is I think in this day and age when you watch the NFL, and maybe you guys will disagree with this, but when you watch these the really good lines that come off the ball, they get into their blocks, they stay on their feet, they're athletic, they have movement, they can run the ball to the outside,

they can you know, they can get to second levels and stuff. You're talking about a three hundred and fifty seven pound man that at the point of attack is really really good. But the longer that he has to block, there's a little bit more questions about that. Whereas Cross, any quan Wu and those guys like that seem to

stay on and be able to kind of maintain. So if you're looking to poke holes and Neil, there's probably only one or two things you could say about him, you know, and the others you could say, well, Cross is not a big, big guy, but he's real athlete. I mean, they each had their kind of their ways, but I kind of feel like though the athletic offensive tackle is what we're starting to see a lot more here in the in the In the the the NFL game, you mentioned those three tackles, So Neil, equan Wu and

then cross gun. Where do you I think all three of those we feel comfortable with that. We feel comfortable, Okay, I do. Yeah. Where would you put him in your rankings? Though? Because I'm cross is how I have to deal is third on that list, It's all over the place, cross that's you. Yeah. I think that's where I'm at too, But I could I could put it quan Wu up there as well. I like him more as a universal's fit for a run blocker and a and a pass

blocker as well. But ask me in two weeks and I might be I might flip that j Quanu is the most fun to watch. Like if you're watching the show right now and you don't watch the Prospects, just google is going and then like vs like verse because a lot of times people will cut up games and you can go watch it because watching somebody who just is way stronger than everyone else in college football is so fun. I'm is a monster nasty, I'm gonna put oh damn oh, I got I got worked up for

no damn reason. Mississippi State played NC State this year and I was like, oh, crossing a quantity. Then I realized they both play offense. YEP, that doesn't. Yeah. Now, if you want to watch Cross against good competition, you can watch against A and M. And they lined up to Marvin Leale across from him a ton and it looked like Charles Cross never broke a sweat. I'm gonna watch that game right now, never broke a sweat. So we have three consensus at offensive tackles. Yeah, yep, we

all agree. Aidan Hutchinson and Cavon Thibodeau are on that list, correct, Yes? Is there another edge rusher at red Rusher be at Carloftis, be at David Ojabo? I think it would only be from listening to other people, But like Dane is convinced Ravon Walker Walker, Yeah, but Georgia, Yes, But I to me he wouldn't be so, I don't think. But he

talks to a lot of people actually don't know. But don't put him on the list that goes against the thought experts guys here certainty, these guys are not there. I wouldn't say that for Walker Walker, Jermaine Johnson a Jabo like, there's a decent chance they're all gone, but they're not. To me, they're not locks to be gone. I think karloftus is gone. In my opinion, I kind of want them to be there. Try not what we're

doing here. You're trying to will him into George George Karloftus, Brian, But I know you do if it gone jeps right, Yeah, I think no, No, no, I think that. I think there's a possibility. I don't know if he's a Sherlock. I don't know if he's a Sherlock as a gone. I would like I would like to see because I think what's gonna happen is people are going to figure out about Walker, uh Carloftus and then a jigboo, a jigboo,

you know about him. I think that's where I think they're kind of all kind of mixed and m Johnson and yeah, I mean there's people you talk to about Jermaine Johnson that they're gonna say that, and these are scout guys. They're saying, listen, he's gonna break your heart. People have got him the the they're saying to me that the the media scouts have got him way too high.

They're talking about him way too much. And I go really, and they go, no, you're gonna you're gonna find out you if you really really really dive into this guy, and you know they have more access to things and stuff like that, so so you know, but they're they're they're all talking about the top ones that we're kind of mentioning. They're they're all on board with the same guys. All right. So that's that's five names through two keys. I think the two corners are gone. I think Gardnered

singing Gardner. I agree with that. I think so. I think Hamilton's gone to say, hey, hey, let trying trying to move the show along. Uh, Brian, you're not segments over he named them all. No, it's done. We're not doing that, all right, Kyle Hamilton, Yes, gone, yeah, gone, all right? Anybody else in the dB in the secondary up two corners? Gardner them like they're okay. I didn't know if you were gonna rewind through. No, I just found forward. I mean we got right in the halfway point, okay.

I think Wilson the wide receiver's going okay. I think I think he's a lock. He'll go in the teens, right, I think so earlier every every everybody's mocking him to the jets at ten. That's that's where that's again. If you're interested in trying to move the Maori Cooper trade, you know, to go up, that's the place I would start. Jamison Williams doesn't last, right, the injury could injury. It's

a run of the mill injury. It's very possible. Well, how many receivers are going in the top twenty four? Probably four? Many? Three could be less? Right, it's and definitely most people are going to say that Garrett Wilson, Drake London and then is it Jamison Williams? Is it trailing Burkes? Do you have another name to throw in that mix? Like, I'm not going to say that Jamison Williams is gone? So one receiver, I think one? Just looking at a mock draft right now, just by the way,

and Jamison Williams goes after the Cowboys. Okay, So I guess I just spent so much time watching him dust everyone. I get it. He's a fantastic player, but it's hey, when it was third done and four, who were they thrown to? Menchi John fan MITCHI, Yeah, that's fair. Linebacker. No, there isn't one. No, very possible. Two are gone, very possible, none are gone. We'd love to hear that defensive tackle. Probably none, none, very possible one or two is gone,

but very possible. None are gone. Interior, offensive line interior crocodile at Linderbaum, Kimon Green. I don't think either one is a lock to be gone. I think it's possible they're both gone. I think it's most likely they're gone, but I think not a lock. I think it's likely at least one is gone. Yeah, I'm gonna say you're gonna have a pick of one or the other if you want. I think so too. But neither one is a lock. I don't think tight end. We're thinking no, nope, nope.

Nobody running back we know, no, no, not at all. I never heard of him, and that is that a thing? Yeah, thank you, Jeff. Who's the best running back in the league, Deebo Samuel? Put your receivers in the back. That's seems like a stretch. There was a guy that's number twenty two in Tennessee. That's pretty good. Who what did you get? Like four point two a carry? And they got the one seed after he got hurt. We're not doing this. It's good at it. Quarterback quarterback Matt Correl. Someone will

be gone. I multiple, multiple guys. I don't. Probably multiple will be gone, but I would only say it's a lock that at least one or possibly two are gone. I'm not one, right, I'm not comforted putting a name on it. I would put Corral myself if it was me. I agree with Brian, just shouldn't always. But hey, he's thinking picking somebody. Somebody nailed Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes, as you like to tell me. I've also after every snap of that game a couple of weeks agoin Blake

Bortles is a bad one. Did like you did, like Blake the guy. He should have gone to a super Bowl. Packton, our buddy, Joey Harrington, you have some bad ones along the way too, you really do. Joey Harrington. Wasn't your fault. That's why you sky More in there, as he won't be available to did not put sky More in there. Okay, so well, all right, we'll just say one quarter two really good short players women Marcus Jones from Houston, by the way, those are my two good short players. I'm

gonna say two quarterbacks. Maybe I'm crazy. I don't know. You're right. I think it's likely it's two, but I wouldn't put names on. I don't know who it'll be, but I think two quarter Maybe it's pick It and Corral. Maybe it's Sam Howell. Maybe I don't even I don't know. There's no Yeah, two of them got the football team will be where it starts, or I call him the football team that commanders. I'm sorry, we're gonna get to

that next because we do still have time. But just to just to recap, Okay, that's three tackles, two addreshers, two cornerbacks, one safety. That's five six, seven, eight, a receiver, nine and two quarterbacks. It's eleven players. Yeah, and I think that's right. Like w you have no idea in this draft class. If I guess we did say Stingley won't be there, but like highly highly unlikely, and he's the wrong example because he's gonna have volatile draft stock,

But you have no idea, Like the next corner. Trent McDuffie, in my mind, is the next corner. Yeah at Washington. Does he go in the top fourteen or fifteen? Maybe? Is he there twenty four maybe? George carl Offtis does he go eleventh or does he go twenty ninth? I don't know Kobe Deane, Kobe Deane, Does he go to? Does he go? Twenty seventh? This is exciting because we left a lot of players that we've established we really

like off the list, and also the volatility. You don't what Jeff just said, a guy that we're not really thinking about could easily go higher than that, right, Like, all I can ever think about is the sorry to the Raiders are friends over there, but the Cleveland Ferrells and the Damon ar Netts of the world who just show up out of nowhere and you're like, wow, that one team really liked that guy. Today, Oh they pick at twenty two, so you'll get a free free guy.

There could be Andrew Booth, the Clemson corner. Maybe he goes. We talked about Johnson, Jermaine Johnson, though somebody could fall in love with him over Kurloftus and Walker and those guys. Somebody could say, well he you know, I mean, okay, it's Thibodeaux Hutchinson and then maybe the third guy is Johnson. You know that mean that that that could very well be a possibility. So real, there's your there's your guy

that can maybe come from nowhere. Kind of a thing real quick in the tail end of the segment you mentioned in, Brian, I think it's fascinating. The NFC East kind of owns this draft a little bit. They do. The Giants picked twice in the top ten, they do. The Eagles have three picks in the top twenty, and Washington is right there at eleven as a quarterback needy team. So I'm I'm curious for y'all's thoughts on how you think that could shape the round and what the Cowboys

wind up doing. Like, so, you you think Washington is going to target a quarterback. I think Washington is going to target a quarterback, I really do, unless they trade for one. I think that's the thing. There's two teams you kind of have to worry about that might be trading for quarterbacks in the division would be Philadelphia and Washington.

Those would be the two, and then that would change if you know, I don't know if you get rid of the eleventh overall pick if you're the Commanders, but you know, if you if in fact you trade for Jimmy Garoppolo, then you're probably not in the quarterback market. You know, you're probably thinking about, Okay, let's go get some offensive linemen, some skilled players. I mean, that's a team that's very Maybe maybe that's what the second wide

receiver comes off the board. You know, someone to pair with, you know, Terry McLaren and then Logan Thomas and those guys. I think Philadelphia has the chance to really shape this draft up the most in the middle because I agree with with Brian and the fact that Washington's going to look at a quarterback at eleven. I think that is pure, set and simple. It's probably gonna be Matt corral or Kenney Pickett, maybe Malik Willis if they fall in love

with him. Now, Philadelphia, if they were to keep all three of those picks, which I can't imagine them doing at all, I agree. I think at some point they either trade one of them and try and get something out of it. Maybe they put them all in a big package and they go try and get somebody. Either one of those things are certainly possible. But if they do make those picks, their needs kind of line up

with Dallas's needs. They need edge rusher, they need into your offensive lineman, they need a corner, maybe a linebacker. I mean, that's exactly what Dallas is looking for as well. In terms of a team that could affect Dallas's draft as much in the division, I think it's one hundred percent of Philadelphia because they'll either use them to go get a quarterback or they'll try and build around the quarterback that they have. I could see you're absolutely right,

and I could see the Eagles breaking our hearts. Speak like I'm looking at an Eagles and all Eagles mock that has them taking Devin Lloyd o the linebacker out of Utah, Drake London the USC receiver, and Jeff's guy, Trent McDuffie Washington. That's that's three guys that you would love to have. I was doing right now, just lining up like if I were the Eagles, or if I were an Eagles fan, if I were like drawing up different scenarios of what it could look like and that

you wouldn't like as a Cowboy fan. And I was thinking, what if Stingley makes it to fifteen and it's Stingley, I don't like that, Or McDuffie as a corner linderbaumb Nakobe Dean or Devin Lloyd coming off the board as a linebacker there, and if I'm them and Jason Kelsey's been incredible for us for so long. Probably take the next Jason Kelsey and Tyler Linderbaum. And if not, then they'll take an edge that you like, a receiver, you

like something like that. Would you rather Philadelphia if you're a Cowboy fan, would you rather Philadelphia use two picks to trade for a quarterback or let them take all three picks chase a quarterback? Who's the quarterback? There's the thing in this draft. Pick not not oh you mean a prospect? No? No, no, no no, no, no, no, no no Watson, Yeah, Wilson. I would use the picks. I would rather they use it all the picks than Lando Watson or you know, Rogers.

Seems unlikely. But just for the thought of so you want them to use all three picks, yes, if that's the alternative, Hell yeah, even tread all three of them for Okay, what if it's for what if it's for Wilson? What if it's for an older quarterback that might not be in the division as long? I don't want to have to play Russell Wilson on a good roster for four or five more years now, thank you. In some ways,

years go really fast, but in football. If you have to watch a team that has Russell Wilson and a good team around him for even three years, that's that's a long time to make. The first time Russell Wilson's ever had a losing record, I believe this year. I believe. Yeah, so I ain't signing. I'm curious to hear the answer to your own question because I think I'm on the opposite side I personally, you know, I would I would like to say, I think the quarterbacks, it's such a

quarterback driven league. Make let them make the picks. Yeah, let them make the picks. I mean we all know they're gonna get three good players. I mean you just know that going in whoever they pick, and that those points in time, you're gonna every time when we talk about that pick, we're gonna go, man, it's a nice pick. They just got better again. Nice pick. You know, the Giants gave a very good spot. Giants gave a very public vote of confidence to Daniel Jones. Do you think

they mean that. No, it's the offseason. I'm old enough to remember when um Josh Rosen was their guy, when Cliff Kingsbury got hired the Cardinals. Old enough to remember when Jared Goff was their guy and then they traded for Stafford like a week later. I'm got no, absolutely not, absolutely not. But is there a quarterback here? No, it's better. It's a nice it's a nice year to have your hated rival have two picks in the top ten. Well they might be in a situation though, too, depending on

what Brian Dieball wants to do. I mean, if there's a quarterback that fits what he did with Alan in Buffalo, that kind of a quarterback, you know, if you evaluate that of the pick, Yeah, looking for a big armed athlete exactly what I was there, you go. I mean, that's that's what I'm saying. Though it might be like, Listen,

I didn't draft Daniel Jones. I I you know, I'll work with Daniel Jones, but if you give me an opportunity to get a guy that fits in what I'm trying to do offensively, I think I'm taking the five of the seven and making that pick. Shoot, you talk about all it takes is one. I'll never forget the shock when Daniel Jones win sixth. I mean that was not something anybody anticipated. So something to consider a lot of food for thought we went a little bit over.

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talk XS and o's with me. Mickey Spagnola, the official travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, will take care of all your travel needs. Visit Cowboys Travel dot com is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Welcome back to the Draft Show. It is the second segment. You guys know what that means. Beam hit it Twitter on the twitters where we try to get to as many of your questions as possible. We'll start it off with Jared, I like this question a lot. Position of need that

makes absolutely no sense to you for the Cowboys. You would hate it or it wouldn't make any sense to you at all. Cornerback, Yeah, all right, that's the first one. I thought. He said position of need. That was a question. You're saying, Dak Prescott's not the guy. Uh No, Jeff hates Dak. No, No, that's why you would have hate it. That's why as he said, position of need that was in the question, and quarterback is not a need for this team. They all make sense. That's why they're positions

of need. That's kind of what I'm saying. But the player that you feel like would be a reach at that if he took the Michigan defensive end, I thought they would be a little questionable. A jabo, Yeah, you were talking about him in the first segment. I think so, I think so. I think that would be to me, that would be one I would kind of I would kind of like, Okay, let's hang on our rear here we go, you know, kind of a thing. But yeah, I just I think there's some things about him. I

think there's a really raw player. I think he's only played football for a limited amount of time. It might work out great, it really might as he learns and stuff like that. Sometimes I kind of feel like that you don't have this opportunity to learn and do I mean, you need to like plug these guys in and let him play and let him be good. I think there would be a lot of pressure on him. Again, I'd hate for them to force this pick at defensive end. If they all of a suddenly turned, you lose Randy

or you lose Tank. Yeah, you know, and that would be the one pick at twenty four that I would kind of like, you know, man, all those other guys I've kind of I kind of have an idea of what they could be. The Michigan kid could be a great player. He could end up being great, but right now, I don't know if he could be great. That would be my question. With everything we said in the first segment, do you all think it's fair to say like they should have a good shot at a plug and play prospect.

Yeah right, oh yeah, yeah, and so that's that's what worries, Yeah, at the thought of drafting a project guy in this spot. And he just said he doesn't have a lot of experience. You know, if you're if you're say, if you drafted him and you already had Tank and you also had Randy and you wanted to maybe because one was going to move on the next year, but you let this kid grow a little bit and learn. You know, maybe that would maybe that if you had time to do that.

But I kind of feel like in this day and age, you got to get these plug and play guys. I agree, you know, I mean I don't have time for a guy to sit and watch for you know, seven weeks, eight weeks. I needed Kelvin Joseph to play. I needed him to play, you know, and I don't you know, if you want to keep doing stuff like that, well then you know we're gonna be like, there's gonna be more questions and more questions, and then when we get to the draft, it's gonna be well, you know, they've

got Kelvin Joseph. Well, did you really do anything? You know, he showed some promise. I mean, you need these guys to play, and not all of them can. But if you're drafting these guys high enough, they need to step in and play. I assumed one of y'all would have said defensive tackle. That was where I was about to say, kind of along those same lines. If it's not Leal or Jordan Davis, I'm probably not interested even a Perry On Winfrey, who I might. If they take Leale, I'll

be a little nervous about that too. If you want to bring Sad, yeah, and I will have a rough next five minutes on the air. See. I don't think I hate it. I think early yeah, give or take. But I don't necessarily think it's a great thing. We've talked about Jordan Davis and like he's he's going to draw interest because he's six six three, sixth year or whatever. His measurement is a good player. Is he a first

round player? Though? And I think we've talked about this, but like that that scene, I don't I don't know how much I would love that at twenty Well, the problem is that's not to me. It's not a question about Jordan Davis. It's a question about positional value. How do you use. It's just a matter of is a nose tackle two down player a first round player? And

that's that was kind of my point. I mean, And to me, no, like maybe a few because a lot of times I think you'll look back at this and feel really dumb about it, because a lot of times I think you convince yourself of certain things. Remember the Chiefs when they drafted Clyde Edwards Hilaire, Yeah, it was like, well, they've such a good team, you're just plopping icing on

the cake. You can't do that. You're gonna look back at those picks later and be like, oh, wait, we should have picked the best player we could find, because then he would have been the best player we could find instead of, oh, you know, our team is really good, but boy, if we had a two down run stuff or let's just drop that cherry on top. I just I don't think you can think that way. I want to play Devil's advocate here because you're you're putting him

in that box. And I agree with you, by the way, just so we're clear, but two down player, he's that run stuff for the middle of your defensive line. Last year, the box for Micah Parsons was. He was an off ball linebacker that every once in a while could blitz. Sure, there's something about Jordan Davis that could be that hidden thing that you look at and you could say, maybe in Quinn's system he could do something better. I actually think maybe there's other nose tackles that you can say

that about. Okay, I would rather have Travis Jones, the Yukon defensive tackle, in the second round than Jordan Davis in the first, because then I'm getting a guy who is a run stopper but also has a little bit of juice in terms of rushing the passer. With Jordan k three down, Yeah, with Jordan Davis on third down, if you had him on the field, he's gonna run straight ahead. And if there's two guys there, they're all

going to stand there together and have fun. And if it's one guy, he'll be working his way towards the quarterback. But you're not going to get sack production out of him. And so to me, that's not a first round player unless you're a total freakazoid like Vitavea. That was a first round player, sure, because he was Jordan Davis plus

quick feet, quick hands, just a badass penetrates. Yea, yeah, like he had he had some more that was getting crushed enough in the run last year that you had to go out and get a one technique like that downy. I think they could use that help in their interior. I just I'm not convinced it needs to be a first round pick. Is it a need above other needs? Probably not, feel and I do understand the value of

nothing with us. It makes your linebackers better, it does, It does a lot for your team, But do you need to invest a first round pick? And the fact that they haven't had one in a while, maybe it does say that at some point you got to use a first round pick for that. That seems like a job that could be done for less than that. That was a thing under sorry Brian, that was a thing under Rod Marinelli forever. Like we just never talked about

knows tackles. So with Bohannah that you're going to tell me he was just a sixth round pick and don't worry about it. And they told you that already. He was watching Carlos Watkins play. Yeah sure, I mean, I mean I'm asking the question. I just say, yeah, I think you can upgrade the talent there without spending pick twenty four on it, especially since I mean somewhere between twenty four and the six he talked about absolutely, he talked about Jones from Connecticut. Matthis is that guy for

me at Alabama. I mean, if you're talking about not having to spend a first round pick on a defensive tackle, you know, I'm matthis is a perfect guy for me. I mean, I have him above Jones, and I respect what he's saying about Jones because there's some good tape of Jones Jones. Mathis but that's I just need a little bit more. I just need a little bit And maybe you know, is he is he such a great two down player that you just totally turn a blind

eye to that. You know, you might just say he is he is a this guy is the best two down play, best defensive tackle, but he only plays two downs. Do you you just say, Okay, well that's that's what we're gonna take. Nobody's running on us and we'll just figure out the rest of what he does later. If he vetave, I'm down, He's not. Though he's no. We don't think he is, at least I don't think, right I don't think he is. Okay. I love this question from GC actually because it's easy to get in the weeds.

But I think it's important to remember that people of all levels of expertise listen to this. He wants a little bit more detail on And we've talked about Tyler Linderbaum fitting a zone scheme really well, can you expound on what that means? Yeah, and a zone scheme. You picture an offensive line, right, there's two ways people are going to talk about blocking a running play. One is called gap scheme. One is called zone scheme, and a

gap scheme. Ideally, you want your guys to be super strong because their job is moved that dude, that's his job. And the running back you're gonna figure it out. We're gonna move these dudes. You got him, you got him. We're gonna move them and go and you're gonna go and you're gonna figure that out. And if it is zone running, depending on which sort of But like Dave said, let's not get too far in the weeds. Essentially, your

offensive line is gonna be moving on a track. We're moving this way and we're all going that way, and they will figure out based on sometimes or this way. Yeah, and we're gonna figure out based on as we start moving who is we're on defense. Oh, clearly us two. We're gonna block him, yea, And okay, now you've got him. Okay, I'm gonna go get the linebacker. And we're just we're doing that, and so it's more scripted, yes and concert Thoal,

we're doing a great thing. And Linderbaum is great as a zone player because he is a outstanding athlete at center. And so you picture a play where your call is, Hey, we're running to the right, and we're a zone blocking team. So when the center snaps the ball, we are all just whoo going that way, and there is a defensive tackle to my center's right. Oh that's a tough block to make. Yeah, we're going right. I gotta get around him and snap this football while he's moving forward. Linder

Bomb can do it. Yeah, that's a reach block. Yeah, the way Jeff was describing that, young scoop reach these things if you get when you get hip to hip and then you push the guard to the next level by by being hip to hip, it allows the center in this case Linden Bomb to get in front to get his head across that's what you want to do. You talk about reaching wide techniques. I think he can reach white techniques on his own. I don't think he has to always have that that that hip to hip

to get to the second level. I think he's good enough to where he can snap the ball step and get his head across a wide defender and then turn to keep him sealed off from the play. And that would be the benefit. We've talked about his size, he's two nine. That is a benefit of having an undersized center. Is that athleticism exactly. Jeff mentioned that the guy Kelsey. You can watch Kelsey play at Philadelphia if you have the all twenty two from the NFL dot Com the

game passed to watch Travis. I keep call him Travis Bason Kelsey play and you just watch him and you'll see some of the traits that you see in linder Bomb. And that's the other thing too, is it takes a lot more footwork to a certain extent to be able to have that athleticism to move to the second level. If you're in a gap scheme, of course there's footwork

involved there, but it's more power, pure strength. Not only does Linderbomb have the strength to do that and the athleticism to get outside, but he's so fundamentally sound in

the way that he does it. In my opinion, he's the safest pick in terms of a interior offensive lineman in this entire draft because of the way he is so polished, he's so athletic, and he has that strength despite a little bit of a small size, to be able to get in and plug immediately into a zone blocking scheme, which by the way, is something that the Cowboys do quite often. At this early stage, I think it would be him or Nakobe Dean that would make

me most excited to draft. Speaking of which, got a lot of linebacker questions from people today, starting with KG who wants to know about guys who can fill a mic linebacker role specifically that you like. It's interesting because I'm Christian Harris from Alabama. That's the first name I think of. Yeah, I think when when you're talking, Christian Harris is a six two, two hundred and thirty two pound guy that I mean, he's one of those linebackers.

He's always around the football. He makes a ton of tackles because he's got a burst and that ability to close. But the one thing that you can see with him is he is super physical when it comes to getting to the football and taking on blocks and stuff like that. That's the kind of guy you need. You need a guy that's gonna play downhill. It's gonna play with his hands, is gonna finish everyone. Of his tackles is just like you know, I mean, just explosive tackles. Now, he's gonna

make some mistakes. You'll see sometimes where he won't read it really really really quick. But then he's got such a burst in his Oh, I just f this thing up, and now he's running like hell to get to where he has to be. So Christian Harris would be a guy for me. If you're looking for a downhill mic linebacker, he's a perfect fit for me. On there, pretty boring.

I'm just gonna say I agree with the name he gave you based on linebackers i've seen, because the top two guys, I think you're talking more about weakside where you'd like him clean, let him run, yeah, And Christian Harris, if it's like, hey, you're gonna have to deal with some clutter, he'd say, okay, I'll hit him you know, we talked about we talked about ten Dale too from Alabama Georgia excuse me, and you know, and we were kind of all talking about maybe he doesn't read it

as quick. Jeff was mentioned about Dean and the other linebackers that are flying to get out of there, that kind of thing. So I he would be a guy kind of in that next thing. But to me, the Alabama kid is clearly the best fit as far as that goes. I have Christian Harris above the guy who I'm about to mention. But have you seen Darian Beavers from and have not seen him yet? Senior Bowl guy, he does have a great name. He'd be one of

those developmental types in that kind of role. He's not as downhill, he's not as good of a polished player as Harris is, but he has some of those same traits to where he does it hard. He has some solid recognition the football. IQ is certainly there, and he was one of the leaders of that Cincinnati defense that went all the way to the playoff this past year. So keep that in. I kind of yeah that to me,

and that's a name I need to watch for sure. Lloyd, you know, when you go back, and you think about Lloyd from Utah. He can do it. He can absolutely do that. I mean not really a take on guy. He's more of a slip find my way around guy. Yeah, I can do it, I tell you what. But the thing about him is though, when he's like when those mic linebackers when they see it and they go and he is that, I mean he is the guy is

super super super smart. You know, you watch him play, you could tell he's the vision to see to read the blocks and then he's out of there. That's, you know, a mic linebacker. We always talk about the old school take on guys, which I think Hares is from Alabama. This guy's more of a I could take on if I have to, but I really don't want to because I'm gonna see it and I'm gonna go. And I think that's where Lloyd fits in with me. Roger and we talked about him before the show. Roger wants to

know about Chad Muma from Wyoming, another Senior Bowl guy. Yeah, interesting timing because of what Logan Wilson did in the Super Bowl the other day. Yeah, this is this true. Yeah, this Muma is. I mean, when you watch the Wyoming tape and it's and I got to see him against the Boise and un LV and Kent State and people like that. He's not going to wow you with this athletic ability, but he's there's some sneakiness to his game.

And I mean when you when you talk about one of the better tacklers and this, I think, I think the Michigan you know, safety Dax Hill. I think he's a really good tackler. Muma is a guy that when when he gets in the pros, he is going to be like, You're not going to see people run through him or he's gonna bounce off or anything like that. So I mean, you know, he's a really really good guy.

See him more really as an outside linebacker. But when it comes to making the play, I mean, he's gonna read those keys, he's gonna get to the ball quickly, and he's gonna tackle his guy is on the ground. It's not like, oh, broken tackle another eight yard game. So I wouldn't like I say, my my thing was I have seen him playing coverage and he wasn't a liability. So if you're going to tackle, play some coverage and be around the ball, I kind of feel like that's

a complete linebacker type of player for me. So based off of what you're saying, and I saw him at the Senior Bowl. I have not watched his tape yet, sure, but good run defender, solid tackler. Yeah, I mean no, I mean you know, I didn't. I didn't see as a question mark. I didn't think he was a liability at all. I just felt like that when he had

the opportunity, it was basic stuff. It was drop kind of sit in a zone and then when react to what was going on, if there was a crosser, if there was a guy hooking up, he was reacting stuff like that. I had the Brandon Smith from Penn State above him as another guy. So I don't know if you've guys have seen Brandon Smith at all from Penn State. It is one of the guys in the draft that

terrifies me the most. Yeah, when I'm watching him, I was like, okay, first things first, he's what six two sixty yeah, and so you're like, good body, yeah, and then he moves and you're like right, yeah, it's like eight yeah. And then but to me, that was that was about it. He's super reckless. I mean there's my question. And it looks like he hadn't doesn't know and then and and I think, to me, but yeah, there's but

there's things about him though. I mean when you watch when you watch him play, I mean there there are times where he is when he gets around the ball. I mean he gets there in such a hurry. And I'm kind of feeling like that somebody I'm not seeing Penn State's not coaching these guys up. But I kind of feel like though that he could. He could use somebody to really say, Okay, this is how you play. Because he's not afraid to throw his body around, he's not afraid to make those plays. I mean, he can

cover some ground too. And that's what I'm saying. With movement, you might get the guy that's the steady steady, you know, and then this guy might be the homer and you talk about the Michigan guy being raw and you might hit hit on the big one. Brandon Smith might be the guy at six three two forty that you hit on and you're like, oh my gosh, you know he's making every single play. That's because somebody's working with the Jeff's right, man, He's got some scary trades to him

as well. Have you had a chance, I know you're familiar with him, but have you had a chance to tape study our our boy, Damon Clark. I have, I have. I mean, I I mean, look, I get it. I was gonna say Brian and I are both geared up for LSU. Come on, Homers, what do you got. I'm curious for Brian's thoughts. I think that's a name that we haven't really said that I think is a very viable Day two type of guy. Well, there's another one

of those mic linebackers. I just had Harris above him, and you know that there's there's a lot of violence to his game. I mean, when you really watch him play, I you know, it's it's kind of hard because it's your school and all that, and he's like, Okay, you're trying to watch the whole defense. But he shows up. He wears number eighteen. He shows up every single play, you know, when they have to have a play. He's the Texas. You can watch the Texas A and M

game the last play. I mean they're trying, ain't him trying to drive? And he he makes the pressure to you know, to cause the incompletions, you know, and stuff like that. Way more ability in the backfield than a guy his size should have. I think, yeah, I mean to me, and I was surprised. It's six three, two forty five. He could cover pretty good because if you watch the Florida tape, he's just an interception in that game and he had to carry a receiver down the

field to make it happen. So there you have it. A big guy with some toughness, some physicality, tackle ability downhill play. You could tell he was a leader of this defense, and this defense didn't have a leader, and he was the leader. You could just tell by the way he played. Where do you have him too? I have him the let's see where I have him here. I think I have him in the third round as well. Make that back I take I do have him in too. Jeff,

that's a compliment Data. You're right, No, it absolutely is. All right. I'm throwing this out there. Look, I have plans for this. Yes we don't. We don't watch kickers, right, We've never really done that LSU Oklahoma, Texas. That's what I learned. Okay, So I just I'm not ignoring all of you that ask kicker questions. I do want to have a bigger conversation about this at one point, but just philosophically question from Matt, where would you start to

feel comfortable drafting a kicker justin Tucker second round? It's that nepsy that never I find it get. I mean, if you do, you, I mean even give me. He's just so weird like Aguyo was what a second round pick and couldn't complete busts like what in the world like if I'm gonna I think that pick scared the entire league on kickers because he was as as sure of a thing as possible coming out of Florida State Kickers. I firmly believe drafting a guy that I probably melts

his brain a little bit. I just like, for such a mental position, you can have a compete story. Five you think for Dalton, Yes, yes, maybe that's why we start. I'm thinking I'm thinking fifth round is where the conversation starts. Right start watching tape, Ah Guy, Texas guy. There's only there's only like three you need to worry about, and

everybody else the LSU guy. I got to say this about the LSU guy every time that I didn't think he was gonna make when he made one the Florida kick last year, two years in the rain, the Fogs, because they're college kickers, you always assume they're gonna miss I'll tell you what he you know, he did some really really good things. And like I've seen, like with the Texas kicker, you mean he's actually you know, these guys got some they say, the Oklahoma kid. There's an

Oklahoma kid that's a pretty good. So yeah, you have to probably start. But if you told me that I had compensatory picks, you know that, like like two years ago, didn't they have a bunch of compensed story picks that they the cowboys? The cowboys they had Like there you go. I mean there's where you start thinking about, Okay, they just gave us a they just gave us a pick. Let's use it on a guy that maybe that might

be that guy without giving anything away. So that I think the two names that everyone knows Cameron Dicker out of Texas, kde York out of LSU. Yeah, they're both training here. Kde York's actually from Prosper of Texas, so he's right up the road. Is he an older guy? If I'm trying to remember, Oh yeah young because our punter was old. Yeah, nobody know. Our punter was like, they're impossible to know. How could we know? Stop it? Okay, just something to consider, like we're not done with this,

like we're gonna talk more. We're done. No, we're not, Oh we are. We are not done talking kickers. We are done for today. We're not done in the grand scheme. Thanks for your questions. We will be back with the third segment of the Draft Show right after. This football season is almost over, and that means tax season is here. With it comes taxiety. Filing taxes can be stressful if you choose the wrong partner. Don't let taxiety take over this tax season. The Liberty Tax will help you get

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Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show. Welcome back to the final segment of today's Draft Show, Thursday, February seventeenth. Guys, I think we covered what I wanted to cover in the first segment, so what I wanted to do with the last few minutes that we have and we were kind of doing this in Twitter on the twenty anyway, But I would just love to throw the floor to y'all and just try to get some names out there that maybe we haven't given enough publicity to. You could

call it a pet cat if you want to. You could just call it a guy that you like that maybe you just want to talk about. But we'll just yeah, Brian, I'll start take the floor, sir. Yeah. I don't think he'd been in this room as seeing Kade Ott and the wide the tight end from the University of Washington yet have you looked at him, Jeff and I have not.

I've seen Trey McBride, Jeremy Ruckard and Isaiah liked. Those are the three I have, and then Jake Ferguson on that list, but his next I have Otonist one of the higher ones of these guys. I think that he was banged up this year. He missed several games this season. You know, when he did get to play, I thought this guy was super productive. This guy's a weapon. They'll use him all over the formation. He's not afraid to

stick his nose in there in a blocker. That's kind of where I kind of got a little excited about the guy because he's kind of a fit position. But then he gets movement with his feet because I feel like he's got that athletic ability, but he's got a little bit that snap in his hips. He's an outstanding route runner receiver. He just very well at the ball. I mean he makes things happen with the ball in

his hands. You watch him tough run after catch, so you know, I didn't see one time where he misplayed a ball. Everything looked really natural for him. So Kade Otten six five, two forty, a tight end from the Washington Huskies, would be a guy I would say. Take a peek at twenty eight catches for two hundred and fifty yards. That's tight end can be such a beating.

Sometimes he missed, he missed, he missed several games. If you go back and watch him play some other games and stuff like that, that's where you kind of have to go because he missed some games this year, and he missed some games because he gets the COVID issues and stuff. But I kind of got on him. I just that's just the movement in the in the ability to catch the football and then and again, I mean,

this wasn't just like a one shot blocker guy. This guy actually, you know, he's one of the better better tight ends I've study. You know, my favorite question, where do you have him? I have him right now in the third round, top of the third round. Matter of fact, I have Widemeyer as a second round tight end. Then I have Otton Rucker and McBride wireul be my third round tight ends. McBride is Colorado stayed Widemeyer's Texas and m Right records Ohio State, and his stats will be

very unimpressive because they just throw their wide receivers. But he looks good. I think in college football you're either if you're a tight end, you're either catching eighty balls and winning the Mackie or you're McBride if you watch. If you watch McBride at Colorado State, he's fed. He's the most productive one, but they don't have a really good quarterback to throw the ball. The other thing about McBride that's interesting though, is he didn't have a receiving

touchdown this season. He had like nine hundred yards without a receiving touchdown. And then he goes to the senior ball and he immediately catches a touchdown pass on the first drive of the game. So are one of the first drives of the game. He was hungry. He wanted that Jeffrey to show the red zone ability. What do you got, I'll just throw out a safety name, Jaquon Brisker, Penn State. I think I've said the name, but probably

not spent a lot of time. I think Briskers about Brisker is probably the name that I see the most on Twitter from just curious fans that we I think we've talked about him. I don't know if we've spent a ton of time. He might fit in the range between cowboy picks for one and two. But if you moved around in the draft, or if he was available with your second round pick. I really like Jaquon Brisker's tape. I think he is a full sized dude that is

pretty good at everything. I think he doesn't look like an elite athlete, but dependable tackler, good coverage guy, puts himself in the right spots. So he's I believe he's a fifth year player, which probably hurt you in the draft. So he'll probably be twenty three when he's drafted, which can hurt you in the draft. So if he's available with the second round, Brisker. But the other thing I want to bring up is because I always want to

break it up as wide receiver. Are we surprised? This is my order of these guys, And if the NFL's order is way different than maybe a guy that I say earlier would be available and I would be very happy. Spend enough time on sky Moore, thank you. I'm going to ignore Garrett Wilson Trail and Bergs Jamison Williams because he's going to be a first round ish. I am looking at potential Cowboys second rounders, and I am looking at George Pickens, at Georgia who is body and it

probably is cheating because of the uniform. But his body and watching him like the way he's built and the way he moves, you're gonna go, oh, I've seen that before. It's aj Green, Oh wow. Missed almost all of this year because he was hurt blew out of knee in spring. But man, he is a six two sixty three with good feet, better quickness than you would expect from a big guy like that. So George Pickens Chris Olabe, people will say wouldn't make it to the Cowboys. Second pick

Dotson at Penn State either, So maybe ignore them. But I've Pickens ahead of both of them. What about Metchi? And then Metchi is my next one? John Mechi at Alabama, who is the guy that Alabama went to when they needed to play. They ain't going to Jameson Williams. They went to John Mechi, and so they're different players. Jameson Williams is more explosive down the field guy. John Mechi is more of your dependable variety of routes, catch it in traffic, whatever you gotta do to get the job done,

get it done. So Mechi. Jalen Tulbert at South Alabama, who was a great deep threat for them, and I love the way he runs routes and sets up corners to set himself up to get deep. Michael Gallip replacement could be. So that's what I'm looking at, is the second round pick. If the name George Pickens, John Metchi, Jalen Tulbert or on the board, your boy is interested. I feel like you're setting me up for a scenario. I believe the Cowboys second round pick is fifty six.

I feel like you're setting me up for a scenario where there's like four receivers and I want them all disappointed. Of course you're gonna want them all, but we're just well, I want to gallop in the second, so we can just wait until the third for the guy that I

want to say. I just feel like we're gonna be watching it ticked down and like, oh no, Seattle took a guy at forty two, Like, oh, this is gonna be a terrible twenty Minute's gonna say ten or twelve receivers being gone by your second round pick for me to not want one. Here's the thing. You're not only gonna have four receivers there that you're gonna really want.

I don't know if I've been as excited about a pick after the first round as I am about this draft at fifty six, because pick is my favorite every year. Really good player at fifty six. Wait real quick, I want to give you the floor real quick, Jeff. I'm curious about Pickens, the pedigree, the body type. I mean, he played at Georgia, this, that, and the other. He just strikes me as a guy that could be much more on the radar by the time it's all said and done, like, yeah, it could be, could be, and

that'll be interesting because I don't think he's a burner. No, I don't think he's a speed guy. But he is a full size, nifty hands catcher, big catch radius, good after the catch, not because he's an explosive athlete necessarily, but because everything is immediate, like when the ball is caught. He's one of those guys that it's not catch, turn around, where am I going? It's catch and he's already decided am I spinning in or out? And the first guy is gonna miss a bunch. Pickens is a good player.

Medicals will matter, and just how does he fit in the pecking order of receivers will matter because based on other people's work that I respect. He might be the tenth or twelfth receiver taken. In my world, he would probably be one of the first five. Wow, so we'll see. I love that. What I love about you is that you're not afraid to be completely sky Moore, George Pickens, my receivers. Brian gets a piece of George Pickens. It's his guy, took. Y'all always have guys together, Kyle, give me,

give me a guy or some guys. Okay, I've got one. And this is this is a scenario where either Linderbaum or Green is gone in the first round. And I had an old wise scout one time, tell me to go look at this guy. His name is Brian brought us across the tables. Just ask Kissery right there. No, he told me the first draft show. He said, go look at Donovan West out of Arizona State. And I like him a lot. Actually, I think I would take him as early as fifty six, but only if you're

kind of dried up at the board there. And I just told you, I don't think that'll happen. I think he'll probably fit somewhere between the second and third round. I've got him in the second very quick. We were just talking about zone blocking schemes. He's one of those guys that's very athletic, has some strength, that power of attack.

He moves very very well, and I think against PAC twelve competition, he was one of the better interior offensive lineman in the conference and continuously put up good tape. I went and I watched Arizona, which he was phenomenal in that game, and then USC, which I thought he actually played decent as well, much better in the Arizona game than the USC game. But I really liked what I saw in his tape. Yeah, he's a good player, though,

I'll take you throw another guy to re course. Wide receiver Alec Pierce out of Cincinnati is another guy you need to watch. He's six threes, two hundred and eight pounds. Catch him against Notre Dame if you can. He's Caroline or SMU. I mean, this guy is again Jeff's listed. We've talked about a bunch of receivers, but if when you get down in that third round, if you don't get your second round receiver, I think this guy, Alec Pierce from Cincinnati is a really really good fit because

he made a ton of plays down the field. Everything he does is down the field. He extends for the football he's got. You know, he's he'll surprise defenders with his quickness off the line. You think, because he's that tall, he's not that quick, but he's really really that's not the case at all. He could be really explosive the

way he plays, and he's extremely tough. And when you're watching the quarterback for you know, for Cincinnati, you know, as you're evaluating him, you know he's throwing the ball a lot. Ridders throwing the ball a lot to Alex Pierce. Keep an eye on that kid, number twelve at Cincinnati. I can't tell if it's our blind like we fall in love with the receivers every year. I know, Jeff, I know why Jeff does, because it's fun. Well, we didn't talk about David Ball either too, or David David

Bell Purdue. Yeah, I just you feel and there's so much we don't know. I get that, but you just feel confident that that do you think that is going to be an area of high urgency for the Collie It's just a position that you always have to evaluate for the league. You know, that mean that's for the

Cowboys shirt. You know me, I try to know. I'm focused on the Cowboy and somebody on Twitter got on us because they thought one show needs to be about the Cowboys and one show needs to be about just players. Should we do that? I don't. I mean your call at your show, think about it. But the thing about it is, though, the thing that I think with the wide receivers is there's such a you know, with the Cowboys, if it turns into you all you've got ceedee lamb. Yeah,

you know you're gonna need Jeff's plan. Well, second round, third round, whatever, You're gonna need that plan. Maybe it maybe it won'd play. But that's what I'm saying though, I mean, if it turns in that this league is about throwing the football, it's about about receivers making big plays, about scoring, you know. I mean, you're gonna have to have guys who go out there and make plays for

you get our d tackle next year. Look at the final four teams that were in the playoffs this year, Cincinnati, Jamar Chase, Tyreek Hills in Kansas City, and then Cooper Cup and then Deebo Samuel. I mean, well, just names the one either, like since we've got multiple three good ones. Oh I know, Kansas City is two elite receiver. Reason LA won the Super Bowl was because when Odell Becka went down, when Robert Woods wasn't there all seasoned, guess what,

they had multiple weapons to throw the football too. Just bums me out because the Cowboys had that. We thought that, we thought they did. We never really saw it. We never really saw I could talk about quarterbacks because I couldn't stop it. That's an issue for another day. We talked about some players today, damn it. We appreciate the Western Kentucky y'all joining us. We will be back next week. Next week Combine is already here, my friends. We will

be previewing the Combine. We can talk snubs, we can talk storylines. We got all that coming up. Thanks for listening. We'll catch y'all next time. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.