Draft Show: Hard Players to Scout & Draft Jeopardy

Brian brought us Dave Burglar. No David Hellman today, but we do welcome in one of our scouting buddies. You hear him on our draft coverage every year. He is from one oh five three, the fan from the Ben and Skin Show, Kevin kat Turner. Wow, thanks for having me, guys. Yeah, this is an honor because I listened to you guys all the time. Yeah, we learned the other day that you just woke up and popped on three draft shows. That are row right. I found it to be good

Saturday morning for me. Hangover, metis hangover, Matt there, just listen to some draft because hurt your head a little more. Get up and get rolling. Then get up and get going. That's right. We got k Garrison executive producer. Great to have you, though, kat and looking forward to your contributions here throughout the year. We got to, like I say,

we've got Kick Garrison executive producing. Today, we've got a new phone number two and you could probably see it there on the screen eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. I've been told we actually got a couple of lines. Am I right about that? Kent? We got a couple of Yeah, So we're gonna test this out with you guys today, so you'll see on the screen eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. Is how you get a hold of us.

I want to dive into this program right off the bat, and we're starting to get into these players. And I want to know because Katie and I, Dane and you and I did a little evaluation yesterday afternoon and then Katie and Jeff Kavanaugh came in. I want to know what players you're having trouble evaluating and why I want

some names? I mean why, I mean I think that when we watch this tape, you know, and the tape that we're watching is the actual tape that the scouts here at the Cowboys, or watched the actual college game tape. You know, some of it's cut up, some of it's just straight game tape. Yeah, the all twenty two, the sidelines, a twenty two sideline, all that. I mean, hey, if we have to look at a guy like we did last night at South Dakota State, my god, we're gonna

look at a guy at South Dakota State, Al Goddard. Actually, yeah, exactly. But I want to know what guys you're having trouble with, because I wonder if teams are going to have the same problems. Oh yeah, weapons, Yeah, I mean you've been in a war room setting, so that there's some players you watch and after two three tapes you know who he is. You have a good idea of the skill set, his strengths, weakness is what he can do, what he

offers you as a football player. On the flip side, there are some other players where you watch over and over, he just cannot get a feel for him. It's hard to figure him out. It could be because of scheme, it could be because a competition, could be he just has a confused skill set where you know he he gets the job done, but it's not the ideal traits that you look for at that position. So there are plenty of reasons why you don't get a player right away.

And I think already we've encountered plenty of prospects in this class that we can already tell it's going to take, you know, more than just a few game tapes to figure them out. Yeah, Kat, I mean we you know, you and I've been doing this together five years now, you know. And I kind of feel like this is one of those, for some reason classes where I have more questions about guys early then I do, you know, like, Okay,

I feel really good about this guy. I mean, and Dane's right, there's guys you feel good about, you know, and you say, boom, put him right there, put him in this round. But there's I think there's more guys in this draft so far that what I've encountered that don't feel I don't feel that way about it. Yeah, I feel the same way. And I don't know if that's something. Maybe it's a testament to the strength of

the draft class overall. Maybe it's not. Um, I know, for me, I've got a lot out of names though, of guys who and maybe part of the reason is me going in with the idea maybe this is a first or second round guy, so he's kind of going off the list here. Maybe that's a maybe that's a

bit of the problem as well. Yeah, but I can name five six guys right now, and if you said, hey, I need you to take them at nineteen, and I would say, I don't know if I can do that right now, or I need you to take them at fifty. I guess I don't know if I can take him right there right now. And I think it'll clear up. And there's a couple of guys I've watched multiple times, you know, and come back around on back around and get it figured out after that, And I think maybe

that's part of it as well. I think Durrwin James is a guy like that for me, I mean, just starting off a guy like you know, I did not have a very good feel for Derwin James at Florida State right off the bat, and then now you know, more tape comes in you kind of say, okay, this is what this guy is better athlete than football player. And so it makes Derwin James hard to figure out

because even if he goes to the combine, blows it up. Okay, we expected that, right, so you know, we know he's a good athlete, but you put on the tape and it's not the it's up and down. It's up and down. That's the problem I have Derwin James a problem for you. You know when I came back around the second time because I watched him again and I went, Okay, now I'm I get it, And it's more about his size

and strength than it is his coverability. Yeah for me, And it's just sitting there and go, Okay, he's clearly a strong safety to me, and I think there's a lot of people and at Florida State he played you know seven I thought I thought he was down in the box was really good. Yeah, you know, and now I'm thinking, Okay, do they need another down in the box guy when I'm talking about the Cowboys or any of your other NFL tone of those guys. Yeah, that's

what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. That's what But he's a guy, Dan, who's a guy you got, that's a that's a guy that it's given you problems in the evaluation of the early evaluation a name I wrote down a guy we looked at yesterday extensively. Uh, and I had had problems with this guy before we followed up. Watched him yesterday and I'm still not one hundred percent feeling comfortable with his evaluation. And that's the tackle from Western Michigan Chuck wooma okafora. Yeah, this is a guy

who's a good Senior Bowl guy. So hopefully we can learn more about him in mobile. But you you watch the first few reps and your immediate thought is light on defeat. Three thirty pound guy looks like Tyron Smith. Yeah, bodies a good looking body. Yeah, not sloppy or anything like that. The traits are great. He carries his weight really well for three hundred and thirty pounds. A guy that came here from Buttswana and T ten football is

still new to him. He's still figuring things out. I hate to use the words soft, but he's you know, in certain areas you know he needs needs. I just I want him to dominate, and he doesn't do that with those traits. He should be dominating with that power.

You just don't see it consistently. If football just doesn't come natural to him, and it's only been in the country since twenty right exactly, and so you have to as a scout, as an evaluator, you have to figure out, Okay, is he close to his ceiling already as a football player or is because you know, he has this background the way things are that he still has a lot of ways he can improve, but because football doesn't come natural to him and kind of clouds your your view

of him. So I think hopefully the Senior Bowl next week will give us a better idea of who he is. Scouts think of him potentially it's a first round pick because he has first round traits, yes, and so the tape isn't necessarily first round, but treates are no, and so that's get him. Okay, you know, he didn't have PJ. Fleck, you know, lighting exactly, So he didn't have that hard coach I mean, you know, not the same thing against Western Michigan's first year coaching staff this year with Tim

tim Lester. But he didn't have PJ. Fleck pushing him anymore. And so going to the Senior Bowl, NFL coaching will get on him. I'm eager to see his maturation from Tuesday practice Thursday practice does he show the improvements that I need to see with that coaching KT for me. Connor Williams, and I know it's a name ember one

kind of yeah, but but it is very tough. And I started out with the twenty seventeen tape, and the twenty seventeen version of Connor Williams is completely different than the twenty sixteen version of him, and especially which game you watch in twos and seventeen? Yeah, I mean even before the knee talked about the early game was terrible though, and then when he came back West Virginia game he played okay. But so it's just like what part of

the two and seventeen you watched? And so, yeah, absolutely, Connor Williams a good name. So I went back and watched him again, and it was more watched twenty seventeen again because twenty sixteen he watched that, and you say, okay, there's a perfect prospect. Okay, I feel great about that, and I'm going back. Well, now I don't know what to do with him, because well, what is is he the twenty sixteen one? Is he the twenty seventeen one? Watched a little more twenty seventeen tape and I like

how mean he is. I like how physical he is. I am kind of want to playim at guard? Is that bad? I mean it's tough because and I think about things, you know, through the Cowboys lens or whatever, and I'm like, okay, now plays guard. Potentially Cowboys have done that before. After watching him again, I said I would I would have. I would be fully comfortable with him at nineteen going to the Cowboys and they play him at left guard, I would be completely comfortable with that.

And if he needs to be a tackle, I get it. But hey, Zach Martin could have been a tackle in this league. Yeah, let's go do it. We've got a hole there, let's fill it up. Yeah. And I think there are certain players like Zach Martin to me, screamed guard. Brandon Schurf from Iowa went to the Redskins scream guard. Yeah. Absolutely. Connor Williams isn't that guy. And I'm not saying that you're wrong because I yeah, I think he has a

skill set where he could do it. But yeah, at nineteen, that'd be that'd be interesting that that's that's an's right by where you would probably feel that he needs to go. Yeah, and in my I just posting him new mock draft today, I had him off the board in the top fifteen. But he absolutely he quick team. Did you have to by the way, your mock draft is, tell everybody where that's going to be posted out. I'll tweet it out. Yeah, It'll be on NFL draft scot dot com. I'll probably

posted on Dallas Morning News here shortly as well. But it's I had them going thirteen to the Bengals who need offensive tackle help. Yeah, I'll take your herd offensive lineman exactly. Yeah, but no, I think you know to your original point about trying to figure him out, it's it's gonna take the whole process because no one needs arguably a better spring than Connor Williams be because he has to put to bed those those you know, the doubt about what he put out there this year twenty

seventeen tape. And he can do that with a good showing at the combine and the individual workouts. Shakim Griffin outside linebacker, Central Florida and those that'll know, you know he's he's been well talked about throughout his college career. He has does not have a left hand, has year old four years four years old birth effects. Uh, and it's so it's something he's always known. Yeah, you know, he's always played with he doesn't know life without it. Yeah.

He is a hell of a football player. Is And where are you going to take him? This guy is? I mean he is a blur on tape, he said. I tweeted it last night. This kid is a He is a football player and he can run. He gets the football. He's mean, he could rush the passer. He attacks the pocket. You do see the handicapped at times. Yeah, and tackling in space he goes. He's taking on blocks, taking all blocks. Two is another problem. Where do you take this guy where? This guy is legitimately a second

round type of a guy. If you watch him play, he will excite you watching him play. I mean it is the guy makes plays. The problem is will the handicap force him down the board. Yeah. And so now now I'm struggling with where would I You know, I want to be true to the kid. I want to take the kid where he deserves. I mean, you and I had this discussion last night because you're watching the tape and you're like, in in big time settings, he's making plays place and you and the place speeding. But

you're thinking. But then again, you see some plays where the lack of the use of a hand hurts him, miss tackles, inability to take on blocks exactly. You see him play with one hand. When he does that, he relies on speed. That's the game, and that's great. You know, he has outstanding speed for the position. But in the NFL, we've seen it time and time again. You know, you you have to have the ability to get off blocks. Yeah, technical sad, Yeah, what about our guy? Last night we

talk about get off blocks? Are Iowa linebacker Droop? Yeah? The leak? You see the problem. And you know, here's the problem. If you can't get off blocks, I don't care how good you are, you know. And that's that's again the problem I have with Griffin. I love the kid, I really do. I want to push him way up the board Senior Bowl guy. Yeah, and that and that's good. We'll see him there him next week. I guarantee you all the buzz will be about him. Oh it'll be some.

It will be some stories about how he's dealt with the handicap. But then you watch him play and he's gonna run around some of these offensive tackles and you're gonna go huh oh broad is he as he's talking about. But there'll be more teams in the NFL that run away from him because of the handicap. Then that's the problem in love with him because of a the story and be his actual I just wonder where teams are gonna put him on their boards. Is the is the

Is that handicap too much for him to overcome? Early day three? That's I put him fourth round. So yeah, first round and on day three. That's why you know, I want to call you a coward right now, don't you. I know, But it's but you're right, I'm not. I'm just when you grow, when you drop, when you put a round on a player, you are envisioning his role. Yeah, with this player, what's his role? I think he can be an outstanding special teams player and a guy the

equal player. Occasionally bring in on some package situations to rush a passer, do something you know he can drop with as an athleticism. If you're drafting higher for me, the top three rounds are reserved for starters. I'm getting starters in the top three rounds. That's nothing. Against Griffin. I think he can be an outstanding player. But in the fourth round, that's where I'm gonna take a sub package player, a special teams guy. And you know, I

don't think that that's necessarily medical round. Is that kind of where you're seeing it again? And that's not necessarily insulting the kid? Oh, it's not. But there's some I'd guarantee you he will not be on every draft board. Some teams won't even draft to be because of his shame on them. And yeah, because he's a good player, this guy, where do you have him? Where would you feel comfortable drafting and brought us? Oh, I'd I'd be comfortable draft him in the second round if it was me,

take him at fifty. I love the player, but I you know, you're right, And this goes back to the whole point. That's what I'm saying that he is. He has second roundability, absolutely second roundability. And the problem is though you're gonna sit there and you're gonna get people, you're gonna get in this war room setting and you're and someone's gonna say he's got one hand, Brian, how can you take up one hand? Guy? How can you take a player with one hand. I'm like, watch the tape.

This happens every year there's a guy I remember, and whether however good he was whatever you think about that. But Sean Coleman had cancer or whatever, and it's like, Okay, well, is that gonna slide him down the boards a little bit? Yeah, Mike, people are probably gonna be scared to take a guy who had, you know, leukemia at one time. Yeah, give me another player of Dane Harold Landry the Boston call. Oh you got one of my guys? Uh, this is a player who I thought loves This guy declared early

last year, I like this guy. Did you guys both have issues with him? I had issues? Absolutely? Yeah. And this is where you had again had to go back and watch him in twenty sixteen because this year he had he was playing with one foot, his ankle was messed up. So it's like, it's really hard to take

him seriously this year because his ankle. He was hurt, and there's a little bit of not wanting to push himself too hard because he didn't want to get further hurt the injury even more so, he's tough because, yeah, you watch his junior tape and you see him off the edge, wrapped the corner, finished at the quarterback. This year you just didn't see that enough. And so this is another Senior Bowl guy, another player that I think

we hopefully we learn more about in movie. How many guys do you have ahead of him on your board at pass rusher? As a pass rusher Chubb key key, I don't Okay, he's kill the guy that belongs in his yea arden key for sure. Oh no, I'm not going to avoid my LSU guy. There. He's a guy will need to be talking about. We'll need every day up until the draft to try figure him out. What makes him tick? What is driving him to play football?

Is he a guy that you can rely on in the building and away from the building to really maximize that potential because the potential top ten, Yeah, here's your guy,

kat Courtland Sutton. Now, part of this I will say just because living in the DFW area and we have listeners all over the globe here, but living in the DFW area, you get all the hype of this this kid and then watched him and you go in just kind of thinking, hey, I'm going to see a first round type of player, and I had a lot of issues, and I you know, I think there's already there's plenty of times we've talked about, you know, the size issues

that players have that maybe they can't get separation, the slower guys, the more lumbering guys, but the physical type of guys and maybe wanting to go away from that. We were watching him play Hughes last night from Central Florida and it wasn't fair. I want him to play tougher, I want him to play stronger. I want him to play to his size. You know, I'm not sure he

always does that. And uh, I mean there's also the fact that he could go running four or five, five, and you're sitting there going, well, I don't know if he's gonna be able to get away from anybody. Yeah. So I mean, I I don't know. There's I got five or six wide receivers or seven right now, seven wide receivers in front of him, and it will probably be more as I keep diving deeper into this with Sutton. That's just the offense he played in a SMU is so different than what he'll be us to do in

the NFL. Yeah, and how quickly will you make those adjustments. Yeah. Will it take a couple of games, Yeah, a couple of seasons. We've seen that with a Lakwan Treadwell right now in Minnesota. It's taken him the way too long. Yeah, big jump for him going from that way too offense to this. I wanted a more polished player and it just didn't. It didn't happen. You know, I agree, Help me help me with my wake fourt guy, safety, du pass rusher, duo man. Duke, Duke's tough. Yeah, another one.

There are times. Another one. You watch you watch the film when it start you watching me with Snower Dame, You're going what you watch him against some other teams, You're like, going, bring that guy on board to me. If you just put just all the snaps in the line randomly, he would be the first one off the line, and then the next play he's the last guy off the line and he's sluggish, and the next plays in the backfield and the next player, I don't know where

he's at. Like, it's had a lot of issues with Duke, and I loved him the first time, and then the second time went through and went wait, just hauling a whole different game. There's another there's another rusher. Would you throw Chubb in that group? And EDG four is interesting because he wake force by the way, defensive end just went right. Yeah, he didn't do anything like in college. He was on the jv as junior year. Yeah, then

his senior year he became this player. Then caught some eyes and so he's kind of a late bloomer, still figuring things out. But his hand usage really impressive. Sure it is, and that's really what gets you going. He was actually high school teamates with Oklahoma pass rusher Quo. Yeah. We're just going on these names. Yeah, there's plenty of them this year. But yeah, no, I edge for another guy that's gonna be tough to figure out. See I'm watching the tape and then and I'm thinking, man, this

guy gets it. The hand used, the get the ability to bend the you know, the way he plays. Yeah, all that stuff he gets to the quarterback, he makes tackles, they use him inside some of the stuff. He's playing as a nickel rusher. And you're going, okay, And then, like I say, there's some other tape where you're going, is that the same guy? Yeah? Is that the same? Is he the same rusher, and that's what everybody's looking for. They're looking for these edge guys. He's got ability, got

a lot of it. But man, the inconsistency of the player just scares me to death. Day two player. Yeah, but but you're kind of like going, you know, whin ye win in day two? You know that's the thing that would make nervous. I mean, what player are you gonna get the one that and he's going against like mcclinchy and guys like that. You're going, Hey, that's that's the kind of guy who's gonna be playing against it, you know in the NFL, that type of a player.

And I don't think he's gonna test overly well you know a guy, right, I think it'll be average for what you expect from a defensive end. The length will be a gonna miss him, aren't we the size of the average? Could he be? This year's loss in that I was fourth round and all of a sudden, you know he's rushing the pass or Aston was a better player than I know. I know our board had lost in the in the first round, right, I mean, are there's more to get excited about? I think with losson

just because it's the pure get off. But again, this is why he's being mentioned with this category because it's gonna take us a little bit to figure out. We throw some other names just I know, we gotta go to break real quick here hot Anthony Miller, I see, I feel good about that. Feel good about it? Orlando Brown? What worries you about Anthony Miller? Roll? I just worry about the way he runs routes the routes. Yeah, yeah, okay, good player though? How about Pain? We talked about him

defensive tackle Alabama? How about Modifa Washington State? Defensive tackle off Hercules Hercules best name in this draft. Don't know where to play him, do we? That's that's a great one for this discussion because he played he was an interior defensive lineman. But at two hundred and fifty pounds, Yeah, he's big. Get off the ball though. His get off of that initial burst ye special? What do you do? There's a place for it, But where do you do it? Do you play an edge rusher? Can hold the edge?

How does he do with that position? Joshua Jackson the tackling, Yeah, because he's a first round corner and coverage ball skills, The instincts, the length he's not trying to tackle. Yeah, he makes some business decisions he doesn't and Deshaan Elliott safety Texas. I feel good about that, do you? Yeah? I know how I feel about it, don't. I was gonna say he had the picks, but honestly, he didn't have to work too hard for those picks. Right to him. Yeah,

he's not going to test very well. I don't think he's a guy that you want in coverage. So you feel good about where you got him. He's a box safety who's not a top one. A lot of people think he is because they look at the interceptions and they look they look nice. But again, he didn't have to work for those interceptions, and he's draftable, but he's more of a box player. All right, Well, you guys are good at your job, so I appreciate you guys. All right, coming back here the s w s WBC

Mortgage Studios. Gosh, I could wish I could talk today. We're gonna get into a little Twitter on the twenty, So light us up with your questions at the draft show or at Brian brought us, and we'll get to him. Stay tuned. It can be hard to find the right resource for learning about important financial matters. You search how to build savings, you end up reading about the one

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exclusions and warranty limitations applies. He can be loove for details. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Showboys. Brian brought a stained brugler and Kevin kat Turner h wish that David Hellman was here to do this because he's the best at it, but we'll go for it. A true cowboy loves his freedom and Tommy John's gives you that freedom where it counts. The contour pouch Katie that

nestles you in fabric you could barely feel. Shop exclusive Cowboy underwear at Tommy Johns dot com Forward Slash Cowboys for twenty percent off your first order Tommy Johns dot com Forward Slash Cowboys. Keep your warm there. If the Winter Blast coming out, there you go. We Hey. I appreciate everybody getting in on the Winter Blast today, but thank you guys for making it part of the Draft show again. We're gonna take some calls if you want to call in and talk to us eight eight eight

eight five five two two nine seven. But right before we do that, we're gonna do a little bit up Twitter on the twenty man. I'm taking over for David Hellman today on the Twitter on the twenties, So I appreciate everybody that sent stuff in and try and get to as many questions as I can about this. Uh Don wants to know thoughts on Justin Reid's Stanford safety guys who is the younger brother of Eric Eric, Yes,

former first round pick out of LSU. That's right. I don't think that Justin Reid is the doesn't have the size and he's not the same physical marvel that his brother was. Yeah, and you watched him on tape and he could have qualified for that conversation in the first segment about trying to figure out trying to figure out who this guy goes. Yeah, he's smart. Uh, you know, he looks like there's some plays where he looks like a corner out there with the way he could adjust

to make plays in the ball. But there's just nothing there that grabs you and says this is a big time player. This is the guy that you know, like, what, where's in? What area? Is he just above average? Is he great in I don't know what kind of he is. I think that I think the turnover factor is I think we saw him for some turnovers. That was about what I saw. I didn't think a guy played very well with his eyes. There were times where he took

some routes to the ball. I was a little bit questioned about that, and I didn't feel like that he looked very comfortable in coverage. I thought he was, like you could tell he didn't really think he's that fast of a players having to all other times he would flip his hips really early, you know, if you're trying to get ahead of it a little bit. And there are times where you kind of get lost in man coverage. Good tackler wants to come up and hit, you know.

I like all that that stuff. But man, there's those guys are a diamond dozen, those guys who uh, you know, are maybe better playing closer to the line than in covering in man. You know, That's why it's hard. The safety is a hard um position to evaluate for me at least. But I mean, I like Justin Reid. I don't see him as a Thursday or Friday guy. I'm kind of having maybe going somewhere fourth or fifth round. Yeah, I agree, no problem. I don't think he's the top

one hundred player. Blake wants to know, give me three guards other than Nelson. People are starting to get on. Kat brought up an interesting point about Connor Williams and would you play him at guard? And at nineteen would you consider a guard? But Blake wants to give me three guards. Other than Nelson Nelson, of course, the Notre Dame guard Quentin Nelson, who we all feel like it's a top five player in this draft, top ten somewhere. Yeah, yeah,

the Giants probably need to take him. I love Will Hernandez from UTEP, and I watched him last I watch him last night, and I've kind of had an idea in my head for some reason that I'm gonna like this guy. But three hundred and forty pounds moves like he's three hundred and twenty pounds. Yeah, good hands, good feet, nat And you have you had an idea about him

coming in, didn't you? Yeah, but that was just based on me looking for guards, and I was sitting there gonna, I think at the UTEP guy, I think I would like that. Yeah, he's got bear claws for hands. This guy's so much big. He's physical. Oh yeah, I mean, but you know what you would think at three hundred and thirty pounds, three or four he's gonna weigh You would say, oh, he's probably a slow footed guy. Yeah

he's not. And you could play him in schemes. I don't worry about him as a second level blocker and snatching guys on the reach or the the the uh the cutoff blocks. I don't I don't worry about him. I thought he had a really good understanding too of how to use his body just to have got a guy less turn him here and just create the hole like it real good idea of how to make room and create spash guys to go buy him. I thought

that was a very important part of watching him. I agree, and Hernandez is more of a power guy, but on kind of the opposite end of the spectrum. Isaiah Wynn, left tackle from Georgia. There you go who not necessarily a power guy, and he's about three hundred pounds uh six two played left tackle. He's gonna move inside in the NFL. I think he has a chance to make that transition really easily and be a big time guard. Moves really well, uses his hands, uh smart, patient controlled.

I like what Isaiah Winn brings to the table. I think he's in that second third round discussion as a tackle to guard convert a guy that is a top three, top four guard in this class. What do you have the kids Smith from Auburn. I like, I think I like him more than you do. Yeah, you do. I like him quite a bit. I think when you watch talk about we're talking about Brendan Smith, Bradith, you watch Auburn, when there was a a big play, usually went behind

that right guard. I think Braden Smith is a big time player. He's a senior, he's experienced, and he plays like it. He doesn't make a lot of mental mistakes. Also has some experience at tackle, and I think he has tackle size. He's six five three h five kick outside if you need him too, but as an interior player, not the most powerful player, but he gets the job done.

He plays a little with high pads. Sometimes that'll hurt his leverage, but I think you can reset re anchor, you know, sync and find that that that center of balance that he needs to withstand the bully of a defensive lineman. I like Braden Smith quite a bit. I think he's also in that second third round discussion. Yeah.

I think with Braden Smith. Though, to me and I'm you gotta be careful about talking about guys at lack power because then you get the guys like Nate Solder, and then you got the guy at the Packers, the left tackle at Botar, you know those guys. That's kind of why I like O'Neill by the way from Pitt. You know, I think the guy could play tackle and play well. But the thing with I thought that with Smith though, was kind of a guy that was a catcher,

you know, kind of you I was. I was hoping that and maybe because when you don't have power, you catch and then you try and steer and control. But I thought I thought that he didn't have much upper about body power, and I worried me playing him inside if he had to hook up with some guys. Now, maybe it helps somebody's dealing with those the quick the quick three or the under tackles that you know, can I mean he played in the SEC, so he faced a run and you and you watch, you watch him play.

He played as they moved him as a They moved him as a like an unbalanced line player. Yeah, he was always lender, the guy that when you if you watch some late film, they moved him. They moved him to Citi's like where is he? Well, look at tackle the tight end spot because they used him as an unbalanced guy. But uh, you know, I just kind of saw a guy light on your feet, like you said, mirror slide some areen. They used him at a little bit kind of struggle a little bit there, but they

try to. They used him a lot of different ways. He's an athletic guy, light on his feet, like I said, no doubt about that. So those are some guys to kind of keep in mind right now. And uh and and do that. Uh. I think it's Roll Royal. I'm sorry if I pronounce your name wrong. There. How come no hype on James Washington, the wide receiver from Oklahoma State. By hype to see you mean first round type hype? Yeah, I mean he's saying this guy who's a bullet and

a Cough Award winner. You know why why no hype? We're not talking about him as one of the top guys. And I really like him. I've got him at the top of my second round group of wide receivers. How many guys you have ahead of him? Three? Are you guys in front of him? Yeah? Um, I guess the things similar. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I kind of see that type of a player. So I think you guys like it more than I do. But

let you give your reasons. Well, I just think there's a you never see him play press coverage and welcome to the NFL. You're gonna have to deal with that. So I've got no idea how he's gonna handle that. And that's something we'll you know, get to see a little bit here. He'll be a Senior Bowl, right, Yeah, yes, So I mean that'll be uh, that'll be something to say. I there's a lot of things I like about him.

The offense too, concerns me as well. I mean we went to this whole thing with Corey Colemanum, which you know, it's it's just I just don't have faith and the guy that doesn't show that he's running ten different routes. Okay, he's doing two or three different routes. And I don't have a lot of faith in those guys right now. But I look again, I got him top of the second round. I have Gallop, Kirk and Ridley in front of him. But it's it's real close. I like him.

See the thing Gallop is not getting the hype. Yeah, Gallop definitely isn't. And see, this is where I think the Senior Bowl, Senior Bowl will be really important for these receivers to separate Anthony Miller from James Washington, from Michael Gallop, from Jalil Scott, from Dante Pettis, Marcel Eightman. Yeah, you know, there's all these wide receivers that have talent, but you know, senior boy will help separate them in terms of skill set talent seeing them with their own

eyes up close with Washington. I agree with everything that Kat said, but especially the lack of a full route tree. Yeah, it really bothers me because yes, he's outstanding vertically, we saw that time and time again at Okloma State. But even simple outs, he's rounding those routes. Yeah, he's any corner that knows anything is gonna bite. I mean we saw Holton Hill, one of the better corners in the Big twelve University of Texas corner exactly. He did a

nice job against James Washington. And what I like most about James Washington the vertical ability and then the ball skills, strong, strong hand. Yeah, and so you kind of put it kind of close to him. It's a little bit of golden tatish. So I like James Washington. I think he's right there in the day two mix. I don't think he's a first round player, and I have five receivers ahead of him. See, that's what I'm saying. Though, that's where the height they meet people. I agree with these guys,

are I thought they're spot on. I didn't think he he was the smoothest route runner, but I thought he could separate once he got going. Yeah he's a good athlete. Yeah he's not Corey Coleman. Yeah, he's built like a running back if you really want to look, he's five eleven five, two hundred and five pounds. Looks like he's almost six foot two hundred and five pounds. His speed coming into this thing is four four five. But you don't see him play with that quickness, you know. Yeah,

but you're right about catching that football. Yeah, I mean you throw it near him, he's gonna go get it. So I'm i en and Rudolph threw a bunch of balls that he had to adjust to. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. See, I like what you're saying about the Senior Bowl stuff too. Andre wants to know. Okay, he's

thinking that linebacker. Say, defensive tackle and wide receiver are the of your needs, you know, give him, give him your top three if you can dage like your linebacker your defensive tackle on your wide receiver and Kat can chime in on that if you'd like to. Well, linebacker, I think there's two first round that's ro Kuan Smith Tremaine Edmunds. Both could be off the board by then. And then my third linebacker is Josie Jewell, who to me, he's he's a Day two guy, second third round, and

then Rashaun Evans having the third round. Um, so right now, that's in my linebackers. It's not a deep position, overly deep position, especially early. Um. And that's the opposite with say, defensive line, depending on what kind of you know, Yeah, he was looking at a defensive tackle. Yeah, the one or the Yeah, let's I think we needed time f one? All right, you farmed? But threes and can you farm some once? Yeah? Yeah? The ones are easy, I think

with kti'll get them. But the threes and more he's hearst to me is the top three right, um, the top three technique then herdis with all those guys staying in right Clemson, Yeah, Clemson, I'm sorry Clinton. Yeah, Christian Christian Wilkins and it helps more. He'shurst he has a chance to go to Mobile next week and really separate himself. Uh, the next three techniques probably Taven Brian from Florida. You just think about a third round guy though right yet,

third round. He's a flash player. I'm a really good athlete. If you get him to improve some of those inconsistencies, he can be a pretty good player. But he's nothing more than a flash player right now. And then the next three technique on my board would be Rashime Green from USC. A little bit of a confused skill set because six four, two eighty five, but he can move. He's a very good athlete, so right now, those would

be my early top three defensive tackles him. No, Vita Vias the one went there, and I think I've drawn Payne is my second technique, And I mean, if Vita's there, I'm comfortable taking him and moving on. I just don't know the team, the Cowboys, cos I don't know what they think. If they want Mallie Collins to be a three year old one, I don't think he'll be there. I used to be a three. I don't think you'll be there either. I don't think Vida will be there.

I don't think Roquan Smith will be there. I don't think Tremaine Edmonds will be there. And the other name, the guy Mitched wide receiver. I think Calvin Ridley is gonna be there. In the mock draft I did. All of those names were off the board. Yeah, and you have them taking Michigan defensive lineman again. So we're gonna research at Hurst next to Malie Collins and go go get him. Yeah, you know in Hurst plays no tackle at Michigan some so height eight, right, we'll see what

is at the the senior ball. You can see if he's thinks put on some weight. I just hope he's six five, I believe. Yeah, I hope he's closer to ninety five. Yeah, it doesn't have to be three hundred and ten pounds. No, closer to ninety five good weight. He just do you watch him? He surges off the snap, he quickly finds the ball. Oh no, he's a good players,

really good. He is a good player. And we talked about the wide receivers though, real the top three we've already given those, right, Yeah, Ridley Kirk, I think the top two and then DJ Moore, Anthony Miller, those are my top four receivers. I think I'm really gonna have a tough time. When I look at my receiver rankings five to fifteen, I'm gonna have a tough time stacking those guys my top four. I feel confident it's Calvin Ridley,

Christian Kirk, DJ Moorean, Anthony Miller. Yeah, where's gallop on their Dane? He's in that five fiftime trying to again talking about the Senior Bowl. Gallup, James Washington, figuring those guys out the Senior Bowl will be really beneficial. Okay, kid, we have a call, Bunny chance fourthinishing to do? We have Let's go overseas to Philip in France. Philip, first, let me wish wish anyone in Cabol's nation, and I remember of Dallas Cowboys dot Com cruit happy a year

and my best wishes for two K eighteen. Thank you, sir, Thanks for thanks, mister Hilphan for the two week draft shows. I love that and I will and I hope it will understand all of this offseason. If you guys behind the mic are okay with that and ready to go to the distance. Brian, Yes, So you remember I called on in Talking Caboys show after the Week three game about the Domino effect on the online. Okay, I'm back charging again about the online of just see. We need

a left guards. I don't expect Jonathan Cooper to be back next season, and I have no trust in chess Grain so far. Okay, I think we need a badass, smaller brower at a late Mark Tuney or Kickvin Coogan, Famyalen or soon to be All of Famer bid Nate

Newton to play between Travis Frederick and Tyron Smith. My question is, could you give me your absolute top five guard or take hole too able to side inside in that mold and their university so I could watch them on streaming from France and where would you be comfortable to pick them? Thanks for taking Michael, have a great day, Good Tigers, good Cowboys. Thank you appreciate that. How about that, Katie? Pretty amazing the reach of the draft, reach of the

draft gard all the way to France. Thank you for that. We've talked about the guards. Yeah, we talked about Nelson, We've talked about Smith from Auburn, potentially Will Hernandez from UTEP's another one I haven't seen on your list. Austin Corbett. Yeah, college left tackle is gonna move instide from Nevada, or he'll be a Senior Bowl guy. And then and then

you talked about a win Isaiah Win from Georgia. A few of the guards in the Wyatt Teller from Virginia Tech, Tony Adams from NC State, and the guy alike, and a few underclassmen came out, Taylor Hearne and Maya Tahima LSU transfer Okay Southeast Louisiana this past year. I think a couple of the guard prospects to know. As for the tackles, there's gonna be a lot of discussion about how these guys stack up. You know, is Connor Williams the top guy? Orlando Brown? Where does he fit in

this mix? McGlinchey, Brian O'Neill. I mentioned a cora for who has a bright future? Yeah, where a lot of things to figure out, a lot of things use. This tackle and guard class is really interesting to figure out. I could. I won't be surprised. I think in my mock I had four tackles going in the first round, even though I don't think four tackles are four the top thirty two players in this draft. But we need every team needs every quarterbacks didn't hit a lot exactly, exactly,

exactly all right. Hey, thank you guys for Twitter on the twenty. Thank you for Philippe for the call from France. We do appreciate everybody that listens to our program all over the world today. We love you guys for doing that. When we come back here in the SWBC Mortgage Studios, Kat's got a little draft Jeopardy. Oh, stay tuned. Cowboys fans know that the second best of anything simply won't

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and T is a proud member of Cowboys Nation. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Showwboys on the Clock. We're back here the SWBC Morgt Studios, Brian broad Is, Stain Burglar, Kevin kat Turner. Let's get to Kevin's game of NFL Draft Jeopardy. Yeah, I've always wanted to be a game show host. So this is also a good opportunity for the listeners of the draft show to kind of see how much they've been paying attention to see

how they're doing in their draft process as well. So the five categories I have here are big nasties which is offensive and defensive lineman, cool runnings which is running backs in the twenty eighteen draft, who needs power five? Those are small school prospects. We've got getting Handsy that's a wide receivers in the twenty eighteen draft and then senior bowling guys who will be participating in the Senior Bowl.

Now backstage, Dane, you won the toss, so you will go first, Dane, what category would you like to choose? All right, let's do cool runnings for three points. Three points for cool runnings. The classic rock enthusiasts will really identify with this Auburn wayward Son running back from Auburn. Carry on Johnson, carry on Johnson. I like that. I like that. It's one of my I like that. So he gets he gets three points, three points. He gets to keep the board right. Now, I'm gonna ahead and

get it to you. Let's picture we both get Yeah, let's go with uh hey, let's go with uh big nasties for two please for two points. This potential Cowboys target and space eating defensive lineman's name rhymes with the former all time college football rushing leader Cowboys target at nineteen space eater one technique name rhymes former You know his name rhymes with the former college football rushing leader. Oh yeah, you're you're on the right track with but

it's it rhymes with Ron Dane. It's gonna be pay oh No two points. I was thinking space eater. It's good guy, he's a space eater. He's okay, got that if you know he likes to really play. If the game has a lot ron Dane pay, Oh gosh, so bad. Now it's gonna be great. I got you. Go ahead, let's go over to Dane. Okay, let's change it up. Let's do senior bowling for Let's go three again, three points senior bowling. I'm gonna warn you that this clue

is a little bit long. Okay, So just to get that out of the way, this Senior Bowl offensive play not only learned how to play quarterback, but also learned to many other psychological wonders of the world playing for the coach who was wrongfully dismissed by Texas Tech back in the day. Okay, it's gonna be who is Luke fall? That is Luke Falk? It is? This is this abyss about to be an ass kid? That's gonna be there. What do you think do you worry about Luke Falk? Uh?

I worry about a arm strength. We know that's a problem. But do you wonder like, uh, maybe he's got a lot going on in his head. Maybe just because he played for Leach. I love him Mike Leach, but yeah, no, I agree. Coming from that system, right, senior ball is gonna be interesting for him. See how he handles that. Do you think he's I mean, but he's got he's got talent. I would you know me and quarterbacks? I'm it's like, I'm not a fan personally. Yeah, he's a

Day three player that at best, he's a backup. I don't see. I don't see much with him, but though about ice cream, Yeah, some team will like him. Oh let's go get handsy for three for three points. Yeah, this is a West Coast wide receiver. Broadest showed the ability to get separation on tape, but it is concerning how tiny he is. West Coast get separation tiny weighs in about one seventy Who is uh Pettis. It's not Pettis steal playing for the still Burnett. It is Burnett.

Oh the usc USC guy KT kind of the same. I'm sorry you're these are great clues and I well they're not super That wasn't a bad guys because Pettis is underside under the same type of thing, right, Yeah, that was not a wor KT The boss is gonna Derek's gonna have a word with you, making me look bad in this time. I'm only kid. No, it's good, No, that you're doing a great job. I think this is a great I think it's crazy awesome. Okay, what is it like? Seven to nothing already? I don't have a score?

Doesn't matter, obviously, it doesn't matter because it's smart about talking about the players. Yeah, no, but he does. You're right though, that kid can't separate though. It's a player though, right, slot player and it's just a linebacker is gonna come in and just kind of pig bad wolf, huff and puff blow him down. Like that's still worry. I mean I watched him. I was like, oh my god, don't get hit. Don't get hit, like I was worried about it.

And that's also part of the Sam Darnold evaluation that that was clearly his best receiver. Yeah, so that's that's part of that. Let's go to the the who Needs Power five? We haven't done that one yet. Who Needs Power is getting out of hand? Uh this? Uh man? I actually actually messed up on the on the clue on this one to do another number. Okay, let's do let's go five. Let's go for it all. Okay, go for it all? Five foot steal one, five foot ten and a half. He broke all of Isaac Bruce's records.

Anthony Miller, that is, Anthony Miller got that wick. He would have had that right, right, I would have got We talked about that. Kathy's feeling bad because I mean these clues right, sorry, this is your one right here? Okay man, it was at the bar when I put this game together. Are you now the step up? I've been watching Pittsburgh. Oh, let's go. Let's go with uh, let's go with uh cool runnings for what do we got left? Two? Just well, let's do. Let's do team

so far behind? Give me the one for ten? Okay, well, just the one for ten? Okay. Uh. He was neglected in the fourth quarter of the National Championship game brought us. But I've given him the nickname PlayStation Yeah. Who is uh Shny Michelle? Tony Michelle. That's for ten. I'm back in the game. Is back in the game. In fact, he's taken the leading I like that, PlayStation Yeah, I like that. So the Sony and where is he gonna end up? A second round. I think came in Chubb

are both top sixty guys. Is he gonna be the one guy when everybody when they look back on this thing and they see all those guys that I mean, all the these running backs that we've talked about, the Barcleys of Johnson's, the Jones from USC, Are they going to look back at say they all those guys went ahead of him, same thing what we with with Kamara. You know that kind of where they end up is

a big part of it. You know, if Alvin Kamara doesn't go to the Saints, doesn't have that opportunity, who knows. You know, he's a good player, but where these guys end up is a big part of it. Yeah, I don't know. I've like Sony Michell all year. He's been great all year, and it's just you were worried about that maybe he got your over a vote. Get he's getting hid Wait, I mean I'm hearing first round and it's just like he's a good player, but I don't

see a first round player. So I mean, Sony Michell is a very good player. I think he's him and Chubb been my top two seater back since the summer. Real quick him or Jones from usc Uh give me Jones. I agree, but I mean I haven't closed usc is. I'm in both second round. Jamal Charles, Jamal, Well, that's high praise, right, think it is? Then Sonny Michelle and Nick Chubb two like being on the same team. It is weird. But to me, like people talk about, well

who should go high? Well, I think it just matters what the team needs like that, that's all gonna matter about fit for them, just because they're a little bit different. And that's part of the evaluation too. If for Sony Michelle is he didn't have to be the bell cow, Nick Chubb was the bell cow? Is there gonna Is there gonna be any back in this draft better than Barkley when it's said and done, it could happen. Is there one guy who teams didn't think there'd be a

back better? And Trent Richardson in the twenty twelve draft that third overall? Right? Yeah, that was another game. Maybe be careful with running backs, you know, Okay, let's stick with cool runnings. Let's see what we we five like running back? How many? How many you down? How many is you down? Now? That hit the time? Yeah? The zero zero. Uh. You want to go for the big money though, right, go for the big money. This twenty eighteen draftable runner who I admittedly have not seen yet.

He shares the same last name a former Packers wide receiver and former Bucks Bad quarterback pack twelve guys. I didn't give you a very specific clues here because I haven't seen the player again. Shares the same last name with former nineties Packer wide receiver, former Bad Bucking Years quarterback running back. That is Royce Freeman. That is correct, Antonio Freeman and Josh Freeman. Nice. I like it. I like that. Good. That's a good clue. Bad. What about

him though? Have you seen him? I haven't looked at him at all. He's a four year guy Oregan, right, Yeah, surprise, he came back for a senior year, came back, had a solid season. I don't see a lot of juice. He's not a big explosive guy, but he's got good vision. Uh, he knows how to you know, pick through the defense. A senior Bowl guy, So have a chance. Okay, good, good. He's just kind of what he is. He's more of

a third round or fourth rounder. Another one of those consolation prizes if you don't get your you know, the top six or seven running backs. Yeah, it's like every year though, That's that's a good sweet spot for a lot of running backs, you know, into the third round. Yeah, yeah, you had to run there a couple of years ago. Was that that group? It went like in the seventies? Was it like seventy two three? I mean they had Johnson? Yeah, yeah, yeah guys, yeah, Chash Green year where Coleman was also

in that was it Tevin Coleman? Yeah, I even fell even further with the name. No, I think it. Tevin Coleman was a second round guy, second or third. Yeah, he was second round. I'm some days I remember this and some days that obvious. The whole new batch of players every year, it's really hard to keep. That's what. You know what that's a problem with a lot of scouts that you all of a sudden, you you you, you, you're so focused on a draft and then you lose,

and when it's over, you forget these guys. Yeah, you're trying to compare them to guys you've had before. The mind only has so much space, you know, it's like a computer, You only have so much storage. And when you have to scout over a thousand guys, you know, it's just you kind of you have to lose something, so you know it's better that than your kid's names. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, I thought you get accused by your

wife of forgetting you. You can't remember what you're supposed to do, but you can remember who you have to buccaneers soon. Yeah, you have to work a little bit harder just to make sure that you're not lacking in that. It's all about balance, Brian, you know that. Yeah, yes, that's why I'm single. Right now, over to you, Brian. Yeah, Ford, let's go with a little let's uh, let's go senior bowling again. All right, I need to learn about the senior Bowl. I'm not gonna get into this right, but

go ahead, all right. This senior bowler to me is known as that other Oklahoma statewide receiver. Who is that is Marcel? Yeah? Yeah, and he is the other one. But if you tell me in three years he has the better career than Washington, wouldn't shock man? Gonna make that guy mad who asked about Jaff Washington being under hyped. And I'm not saying it will happen that was, Yeah, that was who was that that asked about old? Uh? Yeah,

that was. Hey, Marcel's a cool name too. Yeah, well ask you this specialized guy because he's big and he's gonna win those contested catches. Yeah, but does he run? No? Well, that's what I'm saying, is a specialized guy. You know, he's not gonna be your ex he's not gonna be your number one receiver, but you use him, uh to move the sticks, You move him in the red zone. Big possession guys gonna win those contested catches. Is that what the Cowboys have? Now? I hate to say, I'm

just I'm just talking about a team. If if there's a team that doesn't need an eight man, or doesn't need a sudden or doesn't need Scott Jeli Scott Jolile Scott from Date. Yeah, and he's a little different too because he's like six six two twenty like, so he's big, but he's more tall than large physical. But yeah, no, I agree, especially a team like this that you think really subscribes to the X y Z you know, does

is their X? They have their X. What they look for in a Z. That's why I love Calvin Ridley so much for the Cowboys. That's the perfect Z for what this team wants. But that's not the Sutton. He's not a Z. No, he'd be an X in this and you just don't need another big, physical guy that has trouble running rounds man. There's a lot of questions with the wide receiver group. Like even even Kurk, who I have first round grade on, I said, am I ready to go? Give him the ball? A lot? I

mean I'm ready to go get him ninety catches? Well, and the big catch, The big thing with him is can you play outside? Yeah? Slot? We talk about every show build though. He's not a small guy, but he was a slot only player in college and so you know, it's a projection to say that he can kick outside, and I think he can, but it's his value as a slot player even more. I think he's a high floor receiver. You know, he doesn't have a high ceiling,

but his floor is pretty high. See. The thing the thing I really like about him though, when they do get him the ball, he's he's going places. Yeah. See I don't. Who do they have here now that get ghost place? No, they don't, and that's why they don't have good yards after catch stats. Yeah, and that's you know, that was a big problem with the offense. And when you factor in with Kirk the special teams, that's a big part of it. He averaged a punt return touchdown

every six punts. That's awesome. One of my favorite stats in this draft. His career punt return average is better than his career return average on kick returns. He averaged twenty one yards per kick return. Christian Kirk on punts average twenty one point four yards per punt return. That's ridiculous. Yeah, who has a better punt return average than kick return average? This guy does. That tells you about what kind of

impact you can make. My guy, my guy h Hughes, Mike Hughes, Myke Hughes for for Central Florida is like a big punt kick return or big awesome. He had four touchdowns this past year, two one kicks, one on punt, one interception. He loves that player. Take him at nineteen? Oh my god, yes, would you take him at nineteen? Yeah? You had a corner, okay if you okay, say Ward and Fitzpatrick or Gaune. He's my number three corner. I would take Hughes Overward is he a number two corner?

Then number two corner nice right behind Minka and then Ward is three. Okay, I've got Minka, Ward Hughes, and I love Lord, I love Ward two. Yeah, I just know there's something about Hughes watching last night getting in your fight. I just pushed the sideline classic press man. Why are people not talking about him? You see? If the thirteen the national champion Drake one Smith the other receiver Smith, Yeah, shout out to Jay Russ's magic fan who said to watch him on Twitter and we did

it and appreciate that. Yeah, another senior Bowl guy as a Richard junior graduate. Yeah, you see, you see you have got some players. Yeah than they pay. They do have some players self proclaimed. But it's okay, all right, Katie, thanks so much for for doing that. I appreciate that. Thank you, and Dany congratulations for the victory. I'm sure he gets a prize pack. Yeah. Draft day Yeah, yeah,

you know you get dated. I'll buy you. I'll buy you dinner at down there at the barbecue place, perfect, and we'll eat some ribs to gun down there at Dreamland. Get some Dreamland barbecue, all right for my Scouts, Dan Burglar, Kevin Kat Turner for executive producer, Can't Care Sign Brian Brouss. Thanks a kind. We'll see you next Thursday at eleven am for the Draft Show. Stay tuned.