Draft Show: Gut Feeling At 4; Trading Up?

us along. So we appreciate you being here for the Draft Show. Brian brought us Dame Burglar, CBS Sports and Dallas Cowboys dot Com. David Hellman, draft officiano from Dallas Cowboys dot Com aficionado ficionado. There you go, I did on purpose, so you just correct me. I did so, yeah, there you go. We welcome everybody again, like I say, to the Draft Show. Kate Garrison, executive producer of the show. Uh found something interesting yesterday? Well let me before I

get to that. We'll get to We got thirty visits, yes, Dallas thirty visits. Get Dallas day. Yeah, busy week here Valley as we speak, Dallas Day. Yeah. Out there at at and T Stadium. I'll get into one of the thirty visits. What we're talking about. Names are pretty much out there, so we'll go through a few of those names. Dallas Day not so much, but we'll speculate on maybe a guy or two found something really interesting. Yesterday, Eric

da Costa talking about mock drafts. You see that, by any chance I didn't, Eric da Costa, who's the player personnel guy for the Baltimore Raven GM and waiting, GM and waiting. He keeps turning down jobs, waiting for Ozzie to go away, and Ozzie's not going to go away anytime soon. I don't think Ozzie's a great man. By the way, Erica Costa talking about mock drafts, saying that he goes through all of them, he studies all the

mock drafts. He's interesting and I just kind of wonder as we get closer to this and we've started doing some of our own mock drafts at Dallas Cowboys dot Com, you've done quite a few. Every Monday, I believe you say you do a mock drafts. Dave hasn't a story

going up every week about mock drafts. True. Is it funny to hear an executive of a team that drafts very well or has a history of drafting very well, talk about how much they pour into mock drafts, how much they study them, how much they care about the opinion. My I've always was one of those guys. It was like, you know, okay, you know, maybe the first one, maybe the last one, everything in between. I wasn't so much caring about. Yeah. And it's interesting because and I talked

to you know, my buddies in the league. Yeah, they tell me all the time, like, oh yeah, we look at probably five or six mock drafts. People we trust, you know, you being one of them. And you know, there's certain people around the league that have a feel for it. But they understand that, you know, they know

what they're talking about. They talk to people, they know where these teams are kind of leaning, and so, you know, I think it helps them prepare who's going to go in the top five, you know, where where does the general public feeling on where this guy is going to go? And it helps them prepare for you know, who could

be available for them, who's not. It's not like they take this as gospel or they use mock draft to help them determine who they're going to take, but it helps them prepare in terms of, you know, where certain people are leaning towards a certain player, going yeah, Eric, I thought it was interesting though, I mean, he admitted it. Maybe he's like, you know why he goes I pour through those Maybe the Ravens are such good drafters because

they'd leave no stone unturned, you know. I mean that's fair. I mean, you know it makes sense to me. Sure you don't take it as gospel, but if the Ravens are picking six, like, how much time do they really have to or care about what the cowboys need or think? You know, well, that's what their pro guys are doing though well, and but the pro guys are the pro guys should be on top of what the rave what the cowboys. I get that, but I mean every resource helps,

you know, especially I'm not busting on it. I'm just saying I found it, really did it did a did A club executive would stand up there in front of the media and say, hey, I enjoy reading the mock draft, And honestly, I get dejected some Sunday nights when I'm sitting there like you know, I have to do a mock draft another one, and because you get beat down by the fact that the fans think that you're against

their team. Well, I think it's just not a lot changes for me, you know, doing one every single week. It's like, you know, I feel thank God the fact that Dane does it. I have a newfound respect for that because I had to do one for our draft preview that's coming out next week, and I wanted to

tear my hair out. It's awful. Like it's hard enough trying to figure out what you think the Cowboys are gonna do, but then you're like, all right, well if they do this, and that means that this and this guy's gonna fall wait all of a sudden, like I've got Joey Bosa at twelve. Yeah the guy. Yeah, that's the worst. But when I think about that, how I know for a fact certain teams that look at my

mock draft. That's when I'm like, okay, you know what, you know, I need to put a lot of focus on this and make sure it's the best I could possibly make it. So the fact that I know is that some NFL teams look at these mock drafts that gives me all the motivation I need to make sure. You know, I put everything I have into a mock draft every week. Yeah, you give it some thought, and yeah, not just because okay I had this is the best defensive tackle here, I had the best defensive end, or

had the best running back. You try and give it to some thought where some team needs and stuff like that. Maybe even focusing on what's going on at free agency. Well, that's the thing everything free free agency, it is just for fun. It's just you know, looking at possibilities. Really, a mock draft before free agency doesn't make much sense after free agency. Start doing these mocks. You know, now

we're less than three weeks away from the draft. All of a sudden, these mock drafts a lot more serious. You know, you have a better, much better idea, um, but they're tough because it's a domino effect, you know. And you know, one surprise move in the top five could throw off the rust of your entire mock draft. So even not taking a quarterback, absolutely, yeah, that would

be a total curveball day change. That is that the point in the draft where this and it's funny to say this though, but at the second pick, this draft can go a whole nother direction. It's really the quarterbacks. The quarterbacks every year kind of change things, and it'll be the same this year. Will we see a quarterback at two? And then if we okay, say we say Curson Wentz at two, where's Jared goff end up San Francisco at seven? Philadelphia? A? Yeah, exactly. He can't rule

anything out. I mean, could he followed to fifteen with the Rams? Maybe? Will we see some trades, you know, with the A team looking to get that quarterback? Do you guys think there'll just be one move going up? Do you think there'll just be one big move somebody making a Tommy Dimitroff in Atlanta made a Zi moved to Cleveland spot? You know, do you do you see somebody making a move like that and only making one

of them? Who? Who knows? Man? And it probably depends on I mean, everybody's sitting here thinking the quarterback that they want's not going to be there after two, and then all of a sudden he is, yeah, and we already kind of think the Chargers don't want to make that pick. Who the hell knows what happened? Better chance of going up for a quarterback or if Tunsil were to slide. I think I'm always going to say quarterback because it's such an important posis. Has anybody mocked Tounsel

out of the top four? No, not, not that I've ever seen. It's hard to see him. I mean, he's the best player in this draft, so it's hard to see him getting past Tennessee. And then seeing about the Williams kid though from the Jets, we kind of thought the same thing, right, you're absolutely right. Yeah, he fell out a six last year and I never would have

thought he would have fallen to that point. But I think the teams in the top five last year were so programmed to think Leonard Williams is probably going to be gone that maybe through the mocks. Yeah, well that's part of that fascinating Yeah. Oakland at four, Yeah, we all, that's Amara Cooper, you know, that's that's who. Yeah, Williams, could he be there maybe, but probably not. So you know,

Cooper's our guy, that's who we're taking. The Redskins at five, Brandon Sheriff, same type of thing, you know, And they didn't deviate from their plan. They stuck with it. And then the Jets end up getting a steal it's number six, but could that happen this year? This is why the draft's amazing. You know, you can't rule anything out all these possibilities. What do the Cowboys need to prepare for it for? What do they what do they need to

really prepare for? Since we're talking about it, we'll spockle, but I mean we'll do like the week about some hypothetically Yeah, the week of the week of the draft. My plan here for the show is to go in and do that mock that we've talked about with all our information in front of us day. We're gonna run it. We're gonna simulate it, We're gonna have some trade possibilities, we're gonna see who's on the board that I want

to do. The week of the draft, we're gonna have a looks like we're gonna have two or three days before the draft to do some shows. So that's when my plan is to kind of put our mock draft together as well. I think there's two scenarios that they should be wise to prepare for. One would be that a quarterback that they really liked that they assume is going to Cleveland is there at four, he doesn't get

picked by the Browns for whatever. Maybe the Browns pick wins instead of golf, or golf instead of wins, or they don't pick a quarterback at all. So only as something real quick. Any possibility that the first pick gets traded. Absolutely, when you talk about you know, ed right before we came on the show that Philadelphia at Tennessee, well, and Tennessee's apparently saying there's been an uptick and interest in that pick in the last you know, we might be saying, yeah,

the water. I think there's a chance, but I still would be pretty surprised if just because the cost, I mean, Tennessee, could they take a discount maybe to move back? Yeah, but you know, good Philadelphia, they don't have a second round pick, so you know, would they yeahb without if you're if you're if you're the new gym in Tennessee, does it look pretty shiny if somebody gives you next year's one. Well, if someone gives up next year's one, then absolutely, But is there a team willing to give

up next year's one for Carson Wentz? I don't know. We might find that, okay, but you're saying, don't be prepared for that. I don't. I don't think we'll see a trade at number one. I don't. There's a possibility, but I think Tennessee is saying the exact right things they should be saying. Right Cleveland or Cleveland or San Diego going to be a bailer. I think both would love to be. I would say San Diego more so

than Cleveland on it. I mean, even though I'm saying this, I just think it's it's too obvious that Cleveland needs to draft a quarterback for me to believe they're not going to do it. That's just my opinion, though. Yeah, I mean I think both are trying to get out. I think everyone in the top five this year are trying to get out. You know, they they're open for business. Make us a deal. I think some teams would be

willing to take it. If two and three both are willing to move, then maybe the price is going up. There won't be next year's one. It might not, depending on what I'll take a jump. You're making it probably, and it probably depends on who's you know, who's making the deal. I mean, Saint Louis has the capital to get up there, probably without giving away next year's one,

whereas the Eagles do not. Well, that's why you know we have the trade valued chart, and I honestly I don't put any credence in that when we're talking about top ten trades, because I think every top ten's different. This year's top ten is different than last year's top ten, So I'm going to past history. Then you could try and hold them up like the Rams held up the Redskins. I think when you have a pick like that, be it.

I mean, anybody in the top five, Dallas included, When you have a pick like that, you set the terms. I mean, if they want to get up there, well, I think that's both extremes, you know what with the Rams and Redskins, what they did, I think that was one extreme, and then this year we could see the

other extreme where it's maybe the Titan Station give away. Yeah, maybe a little bit of discount to move back and you know, pick up an extra second rounder just because they're not in love with Tunsel or anyone at the top. And John Robinson he wants picks, he wants yeah, yeah, and you know, bringing this thing, you know, full circle. We started the conversation with with mock drafts, right, That's what that's why these teams look at mock drafts is

because the drafts all about being prepared. In the top ten, you have to be prepared for X Y Z scenarios. You know, if this guys here, this guy's gone, a trade, all of a sudden, a trade happens. You can't be caught off guard a general manager, you're a key decision maker in a war room. If you're caught off guard, you're going to make mistakes in the war room. You're going to you know, panic, and that's what you can't

afford to happen when you have ten minutes on the clock. Yeah, I'm very fascinated by what because I think the draft can go a whole nother direction with that second pick. And it's funny. The other thing I was going to say is, you know, I feel like we spend so much time talking about the possibility that the Cowboys are going to be wiped out. You know, I mean, Tonsil goes, Ramsey's a top three pick, a quarterback they like is gone. They don't love Bosa. A lot of people don't love Bosa.

Miles Jack's knees kind of iffy. We talked about all this. Well, there's so much uncertainty right now in the top four. But that's the funny thing to me, is like the thing that would actually be unexpected is if they don't get wiped out, Like what if a guy they really love just kind of falls in their lap. See, I'm kind of expecting that. I'm expecting something as good as well. I'm expecting if somebody goes dancing up, been there and throws this thing off, there could be somebody that they

really really like. Speaking of guys they really really like, let's get into these thirty visits quick. Any surprises if I say they brought in Ezekiel Elliott, No, none, none, that's that's expected. Um, obviously he's he should be on the short list, whether they stay at four or you know, say they trade back a few spots. I mean, Zeke is besides Laramy Tunsel, he's the best offensive player in

the draft, and he's surprised they brought in Jacoby Brissette. No. No, And I think you know, going by some of the quarterbacks they're bringing in, Um, you know they're bringing different quarterbacks at different levels of the draft, you know, So yeah, would you be surprised if they come out of this draft without drafting a quarterback. Oh, I'd be shocked, because they use six They've they've allocated six of the thirty visits they I think they were short. Two guys think

they were twenty eight visits. Even if Dallas finds a way to acquire a veteran back between now and Charlie, they're still gonna drat get Ready. It's killing Moore well. And that's why you know, you don't just bring in the first and second round guys. They're bringing in some you know, Jacoby Brissette, who, Yeah, if you want to if you're gonna draft him, it's probably fourth or fifth round. I gave him a sixth round grade. But if you're gonna draft, it's probably fourth or fifth early day three.

So not too much of a surprise. You know. Obviously they had a chance to see him at the Senior Bowl, and uh, you know, I don't know. I have a lot of questions that Jacoby Brissett. I think from better options, but I understand why a team would like him. An he's surprised that they brought in C. J. Prosise. No, I mean, he's he's a top five back. We've talked about it. I'm at so far. So far you've mentioned good players or interesting players at positions of need. So no,

none of the surprises. Where would you take prosise thing? Fourth round? I think depending on what the board looks like in the third round, maybe I'm considering them third round sixty seven, depending on what the board says. I mean, last year, you know, you could they have taken a running back. There was a run on running backs, remember that. And if Randy Gregory is not there, maybe right there.

So it depends on what the board looks like. Obviously, I mean you had you had your top ten guys here that there were some serious top five prospects here this week, But a lot of the guys on that list are kind of in that sixty seven to one thirty five middle of the draft type of dudes. Any surprise they brought in Vernon Hargraves. That one does surprise me a little bit. Yeah, you're thinking there, what you're thinking?

I hope he's not a target at four. I mean, I don't think he's a tough four player in this draft. This is they don't like, they don't probably don't care what you and I think no, they definitely don't. Yeah, that's why I said, I hope yeah. But this is what we talked about last week though. I mean they brought Lakwan Treadwell in two. That doesn't mean that they like him at four. That means they're doing their homework.

And if if s hits the fan, like we were just talking about, maybe all of a sudden, you wind up at nine. You know, you got your eyes on some guy who can who can do some work for you, harder Eaves being one of them. Interesting they brought in Carson Wentz. I mean this is a player that they've had a chance to coach. I mean they've done a lot of work on with with Carson. You know what don't they know about him that they needed to bring

him in? I mean, you know, every little bit helps, you know, you get to know them more and more and more. A lot of people, a lot of people are connecting dots there that Carson Wentz is gonna be a pick here. Uh. We had a chance to interview Carson Wentz this week. Who else do we get to interview? By the way, have to interview Carson Wentzon DeForrest Buckner, which they make I'm I'm gonna put on my cynic

hat for a second. Please do The fact that we got clearance from the brass to I love you today. I usually do, but I love you today. It makes me wonder what their intention is. Yeah, if they were gonna if we got to talk to who do we get to talk to Carson Wentzon DeForrest Buckner before defensive end and a quarterback that we don't necessarily know is even gonna be there? Yeah, yeah, I mean that doesn't

necessarily mean anything. But what does it mean? It means, I mean it means to me as a cynic, it says that they're not particularly convinced that they'll be drafting neither one of those guys. But I could be reading too much into it. Yeah, Karl Joseph also took a visit here. Guys. Yeah, he's gonna be a busy guy. He's making a lot of different travels around the country.

A lot of people interested in Karl Joseph, And I understand, you know, this is a not a great safety class and a player like Karl Joseph where you watch the highlights and you're watching Earl Thomas, You're watching a guy that flies around the field. The anticipation doesn't miss. I mean, Earl Thomas doesn't miss as much as this though. And that's the thing. When you the highlights are old Thomas, yea, when you factor in the full body of work. That's

why I gave him a second third round grade. But if you're if you want Karl Joseph, you have to take him at thirty four. If you're the Cowboys. Kenny Clark use Cla took a visit here, a great technique here. I like him. One of the youngest players in this draft, doesn't turn twenty one until the fall, so and he's he's an ascending player. I think he's going to continue to get at four. You gotta take him at thirty

four if he's even still there. I've seen him mocked in the first round a couple of times, Carolina Denver, So you're maybe talking about trading back again. Well, this goes back to what we talked about after they signed Cedric Thornton, though, Are they really going to invest that high of a pick in a position that has two

highly paid they see him as a three technique? Sure, I mean, you'd have a pretty hilacious rotation if you had Cedric Thornton, Tyrone Crawford and really any of those guys that you could get at thirty four, Clark, Billings, Johnson, you name it. I'm forgetting one. But it's okay. No visits from Spence or from Miles Jack. Yep. Yeah, the Jack's interesting. That is very interesting. Obviously with Miles Jack. The scouting's done. He's a top five pick. Yeah, it's

the medicals that we're just waiting waiting on that. And they got two visits left too. It might be a scramble him in, you know, kind of a deal usually leave you Oh, absolutely, he might. Yeah, you might scramble some guys in that, you know, the week before the draft and they're gonna have I assume they'll have somebody an indie for the recheck. Oh they will, So the medical staff will be the doctor. Maybe. Yeah, it's another chance to yeah, to catch catch a minute with him.

Spence though we've talked about him a bunch. Yeah. They we're doing the due diligence at Ohio State on him. I know that that's a fact. That's the other thing they I mean, where do you mock him by the way again, all these guys, Yeah, and we talked about this again last week too. I mean whether or not the guys here means nothing to me about how much

homework they've done on him. You know, they've got resources to put into this, like looking in background checks, all that type of stuff that they don't have to have a guy at the facility to make that happen. So potential Dallas day guys real quick that they're working out right now. Mills lsu Ridgeway Texas, a couple of guys who talked about Williams william running back. Yeah, a Sean Robinson. Robinson maybe a visit there. Maybe Coleman, see Corey Coleman

could be a guy. Dotson could be in the mix. I mean, they've got some they've got some guys that if if, if things hold me possible big time players that can go in there. And that's such Dallas, what a huge advantage. We just listed all top fifty type guys and they are all here and they don't count toward the thirty just because of how talent reached this area.

It's kind of funny, how you know, I feel like the last few years we've done this, Dallas, we've talked about you know, how great it would be a trade up in the top five and get the impact player. Now, I think Dallas fans this year there's a top five pick. Yeah, a lot of Dallas fans want to trade back, get out of this game more picks. Oh they're never happy, are they. Yeah, we find that out on Twitter every day. Okay,

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get to many of those as we can. Uh. We're also going to talk about this real quick while we can. Dane the Beast came out. It did, it did so. Dame Brugler's there. It is the NFL Draft Guy twenty sixteen ninety six pages. Yeah, tell folks how they can get a handle on that. He's just way. Just go to my Twitter at dp Brugler. I have a pinned at the top of my timeline. The link. It's an automatic PDF downloads, So as soon as you put in your information, there's a link that you just click and

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you how insightful I am. I had Zach Martin two years ago. But then see we're on this. We're doing a good job with this. But this is yeah, the Star magazine. Uh, this is going to all the informations in for it this week. It should be going to press here soon and then we will have the ability to get it out to you. Guys do a great job with a magazine. Thank you, we do, and we're

really proud of that. So Star Magazine. And then also Dane Brugler's draft guide checking his uh double sided two hundred pages, eight point everything you could ever want, everything you want, so but make sure you're grabbing that. And then also to Dane's draft guide. You can get this at Amazon, Amazon, Barnes and Noble. It's pretty cool to go into Barnes and Noble and see see your own

work up there. Book on a store out there. Nobody nobody's broke out the sharp and ask you to sign it yet not yet, not yet, but hey, if I see you have a sharp, I'll there you go. But all draft guides that you need to get ready. And we're also proud we're gonna have shows. Like I said leading up to the draft, we're also going to cover the draft from pick one to pick two fifty two this year I believe three. Yeah, so uh, I'm really happy about that we get to do that this year.

We'll have guests come in talk, but we will we will cover this draft like it's like it needs to be covered. So stay tuned for that more information and then also to promoting the Dallas Cowboys will have a draft party as well, and that information is coming out Monday out there at at and T Stadium, three days of draft coverage. It'll be a lot going on out there. Real proud of all of that, so stay tuned for a lot of information coming out of it big. We

are going to do it big. And speaking of do it big, at K Hill, I always thank you for this. Let's do a little Twitter were on the Twitter League. All right, we're gonna op right, into it for building off of the conversation we're having in the first segment. Wants to know with the moves or lack thereof in free agency, not to mention the current makeup of the Cowboys roster. Isn't this is a quote. Isn't it obvious the Cowboys are going quarterback at four? I don't think so.

And I was gonna say the same thing. Yeah, I think this board is open, I really do. And I think the fact if you look at the guys that were brought in on Dallas Day, extremely not Dawas Day, but the thirty visits, they're they're keeping the options. You got. You got quarterbacks, yeah, six of they're gonna take a quarterback at some point in time. But you've also got the top running back, you got the type safety corner, you got the top corner, you've got you know, you

got potentially the top on your board defensive end. And Joey Bosa. So a matter of fact, I saw Bosa yesterday, Bosa and Rod Marinoli walking down the hall together. So I'm sure that conversation was very entertaining. But I think you have to keep an open mind about this thing. And I and I do believe that there they can go any direction as far as they whatever the board

tells them to go. Well, I think it's the Cowboys job here to at least make people think that they love these quarterbacks, right, you know, you want to drive the trade interest, you want to you know, deceive other teams and what you're thinking. So I think they're doing it right by inviting all these quarterbacks in. Yep, same line of thought. Kind of touched on this. Dave wants to know if Cleveland doesn't take a quarterback, right, who

do they take? Who's going? Who's going to Cleveland if it's not a quarterback, because it's one of those kind of like you mentioned with the Maury Cooper it's been a quarterback in every mock since the beginning of the year. Yeah, they could feel good about the guy at the top of the second though, too. I mean that's and that's what I'm saying. That's a situation San Diego Chargers had with Danian tom Woodson and then Drew Brees. So I mean that kind of thing's a Cleveland next got high

guy over here. Yeah, they it's so hard because we have a new regime there, new head coach, they're they're basing so many of their decisions based on analytics and what the metrics tell them. It comes down to, is there a quarterback at number two they love and we don't know that. No one knows except for Cleveland. Yeah, and so if Carson did, I love Carson Wentz, I love Jared Goff. They've done a lot of work on

both these guys. Hugh Jackson he knows more about the quarterback position than any of us, and so if he loves one of these guys wants to work with them, that's your pick. I'll make a statement here. I talked to a guy that trusted about the Brown situation, and I don't think this guy's lying to me, but I'll admit it if I'm wrong and say, but they like Winz,

but they're maybe not gonna pick him at two. Yeah, I think they like they I mean, and I know maybe I'm not saying anything, but everybody kind of has Carson Wentz peg that way. But I was talked to a very trusted Brown source. He says, we like WinCE, we just not sure we would take him. And I buy that absolutely, because, first of all, hockey not like once. There's so much to like about the player and the person, but enough to take him two, enough to kind of,

you know, bet the franchise on him. They've had a history of It's a long and awful list. Well, and this this regime does not feel pressured to take a quarterback. You know, they know this is a long term rebuild. Uh. You know, they do not feel pressured they have to take a quarterback here. They want to build a roster. So it would not shock me at all if they go Jalen Ramsey, mild Jack Ni, if the knee is is okay, that's a possibility. Joey Bosta they brought in,

so that's a possibility as well. So would not shock me to go any of those directions. They still run into three four up there. Yeah, that Ray Horton's their new defensive coordinator, so it'll be a three four base Forrest Buckner at two. I know you got you don't like him? No, like I too, though, Um well, it's

kind of touching on that. Vega wanted to know. We talk a lot about Jack and what the medical recheck means if he's cleared, and I'm based on Dane's answer, I think I know, But is he an option, but for those first three picks, if he's cleared, I mean absolutely absolutely. How high can you see him going too? Too? Yeah?

I think Cleveland. Uh. You know, Hugh Jackson went out to UCLA's pro day, um and they like Aaron Wallace, the other linebacker there, like like a few other guys, but I think specifically wanted to see Miles jack and talk to Miles um even though he wasn't a full workout there, but possibility too. The Chargers, you know, they have talked extensively with Miles Jacks about him being a safety attention, a hybrid version of a safety linebacker. Why not?

Why not? Okay, A friend of the show, Tommy, this is a this is a hypothetical if I've ever heard one. But whatever, Uh. If there are no character concerns surrounding Noah Spence, yeah, where's where's he? What's his floor? What's his what's his draft range? If you don't have to worry about that, you know what, I don't think I'm just gonna be I mean, i'mnna be honest here. I don't think it's the character concerns of Noah Spence. I think it's I think it's the fact that folks don't

know really where to play him. Think so, yeah, you think that means more to teams than the act. I think. I think you need to worry about can Gecha and those kind of guys. I think you need to worry about. To me, Noah Spence's transgressions are far more removed. You are not. I'm not gonna say you're giving this guy a pass, but you are not. Not. But I know, but you know what, I watched the kids speak at the Combine. He thought it was very composed. He's like,

they test me all the time. You know, I'm standing up. I'm a clean guy. You know. I don't worry about Randy Gregory if you want to compare to Randy Gregory failed a drug tist at the Combines. It's true, you know, And I think that. I think it's more about Noah Spence is where to play him than it is what his issues are off the field, which I don't I think are behind him. I think it's both. I mean, because once you have an addiction, you know, and we're talking about a year and a half ago, not ten

years ago. So I think it is still fresh enough where you have to have to worry about it somewhat, you know, I don't. Is it gonna stop you from drafting him? No? I mean, but I think it has to be fresh in your mind about is it. I believe the kids. I know that he failed the drug test at the Combine. I don't. I don't believe. I didn't believe Randy Gregory. He told Yeah, you're right. I know. I called Shenanigans on you for what I last this time last year, Randy Gregory. I didn't like Randy Gregory

the player. He was doing the second round on my board. You want to see it. You want to see our board. You love that pick, you love that pick. I remember this. It was a second round player was und It was the same it was at sixty. All I'm trying to say is that this time last year, Randy, I believe you on that. That's not what I'm talking about. Randy Gregory was saying all of the right things. There he

is Shane Ray over Randy Gregory. Was Randy Gregory not giving all the right interviews and saying all the right things about putting that behind him. He did. I'm just saying he fails. Look where Look where I see him. I see him. I see him. No, I'm I think I'm not trying to get burn. I think you're absolutely right about where to play him. The fit um. You know, his his issues against the run as he you know, I think you said that for I think that's definitely

part of it. But I know, and we've talked about this before. I give Spence a lot of credit for instead of bolting for the NFL, he goes down to the FCS level. He passes every drug test they give him. You talk to former coaches, former teammates. I've done a lot of digging on Noah Spence and a lot of people go to bat for him. They say he's a good person. It just when you're talking about addiction that that worries me a little bit. So I think it's a little bit of both. I mean both at the

factor in he's a wild card. He could fall anywhere between what ten and six about the box drafts, that's what everybody's saying. When you fall at thirty four. If he's there at thirty four, my gosh, run to the podium. Okay, I mean it could be and people say, oh Jesus is Randy Gregory all over. I don't. I don't think it is. Well. I mean, look at Shane Ray, how

he Randy Gregory has issues I would be equally concerned about. Honestly, I'd be equally concerned about drafting Spence, not because of the drug stuff, but because I think he's a three four linebacker, just like I thought Randy Gregory. And that's where I am too. That with just trying to tell you guys that though I really didn't know where it was, my pin at you and it's definitely bigger man. Is you're right? Next question? Next question? Where are we? Where

are we? Where are we? Jedi wants to know what position, if any, could you see the Cowboys double dipping in this draft? M I would say cornerback if it were my call, could be somewhere along to defense. I mean, if you talk about Bosa and you turn around and what if they got a first round guy, what if they got a first round grade on the Clemson kid Dodd? Yeah, yeah, they could have they you know, Dodd came on a visit. We've all got dot at thirty four at least I do.

Somebody asked me, Hey, what's your ideal two picks? I'll take Zeke and I'll take Dot don't. Yeah, some people have Dodd in the top ten, man, I don't Dodd's your ideal at thirty four, Like that's your yeah list for we take him at thirty I'm not saying because I don't, because I don't think there's gonna be a receiver. Yeah, unless you like, I could say, my guy Dots and I think he's going to go in the first round seeking Dodd would be Fuller was here, you know, I

don't know. I'm I'm not on the Dodd train. I guess I like him okay mid second round, but I don't know. He's not What does he do really really well? I mean he does a lot of things pretty well, but not nothing like really well. Doesn't have the distinguishing trait. I don't know. He's not a great athlete. I don't know. I'll tell you what I've seen. It's just exhaust But it's the same way I feel about Bosa. So we're okay with this, and that's part of the disagreement in life.

But in the second I think DoD can capture the edge. I do think he can turn the corner. Yeah, I do think he could. He could he could play the run. I think he could do those things. I think he can. I don't know. I guess it's okay. I'm not trying to no no. When you're talking second round though, that's the type of player you're probably going to find, you know, Dodds. I don't think DoD's a future pro bowler, but in a second round you're looking for solid starters, and that's

what he can be. You play on my left end, and you played Bosa at left end too. Yeah, so in your scenario, you're drafting two left end spences and then you got so you'd have Gregory and d Law play right. Yeah, I would do cornerback or uh bits at Mayawa. There's only Oh yeah, I forgot. I forgot about him. Yeah. I mean that's the thing, and that's why I said cornerback. I'm not saying the defensive line. I think double I think they could double dip at

I think they could double dip at defensive line. Yeah, and that makes sense. I don't think they double dip. And you said corner though, right. The thing the thing that they draft Ramsey though, it's it's Ramsey's gonna play corner. Yeah. And I mean, and then you could probably and yeah and another guy. Yeah. I just when you look at the D line, I'm not saying any of them are studs, but most of them have long term futures here. Most of them are under contract. You got bodies? What you

got nothing at corner? Actually mailback question? Yeah, that was a mailback. We got Scandrick and maybe Byron. That's fair. Uh. Yeah, So that's what's thinking. Okay, Greg wants to know if the verse three picks go Tonsil, Jack Ramsey, tons So Jack Ramsey, that's all all the quarterbacks are on the board. What are you doing? I'm going Bosa. I mean, that's my top three players in this draft are Tunsil, Jack Ramsey. That's exactly how it's been since January for me. And

I'm not changing. My number four player in this draft is Joey Bosa. And so that's the that's direction I'm going. You're taking a quarterback taking a quarterback? I Well, I'll tell you what I can. I can make an argument for Elliott. I can make it all right, because he's my second best player on the quarterback. He's taken. Well, he knew I love a Lynch. Okay, I don't love it, and I've been against it all year, But if if Goff was there for I think I'd probably pull the trigger,

especially because they've done nothing to address QB two. So we think, we think though they could take a quarterback probability fifty fifty or better, they take a quarterback over Zeke. If it's between a quarterback and Zeke, I think they'd take the quarterback, honestly, assuming they love one of them, which they gotta love at least one of the three. I don't how do we know. I mean, I don't know how he could have any good feeling about that, because I can brought him all in. Yeah, I can

make a strong case for both ways. I mean, you need a quarterback Hackenburg at thirty four. Heck no, I don't want him. A cook I would take, Yeah, I don't know if i'd take him that early. If you've got your choice of quarterbacks and you got the situation they've got it running back, they're gonna they will take if all three of them are there, I feel like they would take one. I really kind of do at four over Zeke. I love Zekete, best player. I love

Zeke to death. I I just don't believe they'll take him at four. I don't care what happens. I agree, I don't believe they'll take him at four, even if it's a night sitting there in the look good, Yeah, he look good. He looked like he just wanted to put on a uniform and go and play for them. They'll take him at six, they take him at eight, they take him at ten. They will not take him at four. I just don't believe it. I agree, So

I yeah, question by the quarter music. Question one more and then we gotta go okay, um okay, y'all are gonna hate me. I actually saved this one for last because I know we'd get to it. Josh wants an update on how you feel about Cardel Jones. The question it is for me. It is for me. I didn't actually think we'd get to this question. But whatever Cardinal Jones, it really bothers me that they didn't even bring him in.

I mean, they brought in six quarterbacks when you and all of you don't like right, I mean, I don't like him as much as I like twelve gage. Let me tell you this, and and when we do the show again next year, we'll we'll say. Duly noted on Cardlo Jones, he does have the strongest arm, but talking to some scouts, I honestly seeing it, reading it, doing it. I still I still love him. I'm gonna ride with him, but I have yet to find somebody who's really got

a positive opinion of what he could be. Yeah, I was staying Homer here. I'm good. Cardel Jones is fine, I mean physically sure, brings everything you want. Man Brandon Allen or Cardinal Jones. Brandon Allen easy, I mean Cardil Jones. A Does it mean anything to y'all that the kid has played in eleven games compared to like the Hackenburgs and Allen's of the world, who have played in forty years. Every bid is concerning, and he played three full years

at pick senator from Florida. Duly noted, Yeah, I do have Cardel Jones ahead of PRIs set, so I would take him there. But Cardel Jones is my number nine quarterback in this draft. There you go. If Cardel Jones goes into a situation where nobody's accounting on him for anything for two or three years, I think he could be pretty much. I'd love to see him go to an Arizona. You know, sit behind Carson Palmer. He used to play in the eight in the It's the It's

Oregon's Quartern Adams. He's got to be better. He's got to be better than Logan Thomas. All right, Logan Thomas was a pretty high draft pick. All right, I got you. All right, Thank you very much for all the Twitter questions. We will return to the Draft show in the STBBC Mortgage studios. We're gonna tell you play game called Tell

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outstanding ticket selection is unmatched. You can trust the official travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, and with us you'll travel like a pro. Visit starsports tours dot com to book your travel packages. Today is the Dallas Cowboys dot com drafts. Yeah, I want to thank the folks from Star Sports Tours. Make sure you give him a call. Come see David Hellman in Pittsburgh or one of those places next year. I can't wait to go to Pittsburgh. Happy to do there. He will be or Green Bay

or New York. Yeah, come see us. We'd love to have you here. Star Sports Tours can do. Yeah, twenty days to the NFL Draft. Uh, we're gonna talk a little bit of we want to take calls eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. We're gonna do or tell me more. But I do want to take some calls. So if you're out there, this will be an opportunity for you to get on board. And I will let you know that when we do so. So Dave tell me more. All right, we got how many?

We we're gonna do? Three? All right, free guys, We're gonna start off because I've been putting this off, but Dallas day is a great day to do it. Shout out to my Red Raiders. Tell me more about Jachem Grant Jachem Grant, Guy. I wish I would have got a Combine invite or ante to one of these All Star games just to see him more, because he's such an electric athlete. I mean at school, David, my school, he killed l It's trying to tackle smoke. I mean,

that's the type of ball carrier is so moke. The one thing I worry about is he didn't return punts in college, and so if he's going to make it in the NFL, he needs to be able to be an impact return man. We know we could do on kick returns, but the kick return is devalued in the NFL these days, so it's more about the punt return. And Kenny add that, you know, versatility to you know,

his toolbox be more valuable. So if he can do that and win that job in training camp, you know, I think he could be a better version of a Lucky Whitehead. Yeah. I really enjoyed watching him play at tape. The tape is the tape is electric, you know, and and uh, you know they do a good job of getting him the football, getting him in space, and allowing him to make those types of plays. You're absolutely right, exactly and when he when he you know, and that's

in this game. I mean you've said it before. How does a guy play in space? When you when you watch when you know, when you watch tape, how does a guy play in space? And he is one of those guys that's special with the football in his hands. So yeah, god, he's my size. Yeah he's five five, Yeah, he's that. I'm like five five five six. Yeah. But if you don't run four three one, you know what's he that's faster or faster? He's from the area. Yeah, if he doesn't get drafted, I like the odds that

he takes a call from Derek Dooley. There is a priority for we'll see. I mean he's but he's special with the ball in his hands in space. Um, small school special. We've maybe mentioned this guy. Tell me more about Montana's Tyrone Holmes. I know you and uh Katie were pretty high on him a week or two. A great, good player, Yeah he is. He he's the FCS defensive player of the year. Um, somehow got snubbed for a combine invite. And this is a player that last year

at eighteen sacks twenty two tackles for loss. Um He's really good at staying low off the snap, driving his hands and converting that first step into power, and so he can put guys on their heels and really disrupt what's going on in the pocket. You watched him against North Dakota State. Yeah, you know, he takes down Carson Wentz a couple of different times. Yeah, at least gets some spooked in the pockets. So to me, I've got him somewhere in the mid rounds. I think he's a

you know, could be a valuable pass rusher as a rookie. Yeah. Where do you have him? Right? Yeah, I'm with you on that. I had him in the like four five. There's my round of my I have all my my undersize guys in the fourth and fifth round. I'm really in the fourth round when you talk about let me see who I got there, like Nicholas o'chee, Holmes, Perkins, all my kind of my undersized guys all there in

the fourth round. But this kid in danger, right. You can watch he went up in weight class though a little bit because he was at an All Star game, so you see him kind of getting a little bit. But against North Dakota State, Wentz is trying to stand in the pocket and this guy screaming off his left left side right there and harassing him the whole day.

So yeah, the boat or just doesn't que never quit on draft, like on Friday or Saturday, Saturday afternoon, the Cowboys are gonna draft a kid from app State and Montana and like Joe and Flower Mounds just gonna be pissed, But our listeners are gonna be pumped. Like, yeah, they're gonna know Joe. Start listening another small school special. You might have heard of this guy thanks to our buddy Mike Mayock. Tell me more about Akron's j Tavis Brown.

We've talked about him quite a bit on here. I mean he was my number one combine snub and so I remember we talked about him back then. Yeah, mayok now put him in his top five. That's a little tire draft a little bit linebacker the linebackers. Yeah, did he split him up inside outside? No, he just put him. He put him in there. It's one of the linebackers. Hey, that's great. I mean he's he moves faster than you know,

most linebackers are supposed to move. The problem is he's the size of a safety, and so how does he fit. I think at worse you're talking about a guy that can be a special team's ace. But that type of speed and the way he hits, the way he closes his outstanding. So at worse you're getting a special teams guy's going to show up day in day out. But where does he fit on defense? I thought about play him as a will linebacker and just letting him run.

I mean, that's his best that's that's when you trust him as a starter. I don't see that well. I mean this is where Mayott gets a little crazy. He does all that work up to a point and then all of a sudden he starts listening to guys and it messes his board. But uh yeah, but he's this kid's an outstanding player. I don't know if he's one of the top five linebackers in this this draft class. But Dane's right about the ability to run, to go to chase, to get to the football wrap up. You

actually seen him playing coverage. He'll carry her out and for a short guy knows how to play off hand. So you know, what's his size? What is his size? Five ten five? I believe, Yeah, you're all right, about that was in your book. And so we're the guys we just talked about are the most likely non combined guys he get draft at first? You know Jativa's round, Uh, Tyron Home. I think Kevin Byard from Middle Tennessee safety. Yeah, these are non combined guys who have a chance to

be the first guys drafted that weren't at the combine. Okay, throw me one more, Um, tell me more about Bennett Okacha, cornerback ut San Antonio, Oklahoma transfer. Yeah. I kind of like this guy. Yeah, I like him. I don't he doesn't have the necessary speed that I'm looking for a corner right. I think he plays the ball well. I think he has ball skills. Um, you see the ball awareness that that's off the charts. Yeah. Um. Can he make up for false steps? Yeah? And that's what I

worry about with him. I think he's gonna get kind of uh you know, blown by at the line of scrange by some of these NFL wide receivers if he gets put on an island. But he has some talent to work with. When you're talking the later rounds, it might be a guy or you know, take a chance on five eleven and four or five five. Yeah, and the key, what Dane says, is transfer from Oka home that so he so, Yeah, one time he was playing big time football and I just was looking down on

my notes, So I did I saw the range. I did see some ketchup speed positioning routes. He turns his head to find the ball. But the burst. You know, there was some some positive traits about him. I understand what Dane is talking about though, being on an island and all that, but but the whole thing with Oklahoma, some positive traits make him a guy like Dane says that you could see a little bit later in a draft round. What great deal have on him? I had

him in the sixth I gave him PFA. He's my first PFA among the corners, so I was borderline seventh or a PFA. So I'm close there with you. Yeah. One thing with him when you're talking corners, I think something that translates his passes defended, you know, sacks with pass rogers, tackles with linebackers. The thing that translates more than anything I think is passes defended with with corners.

And he he had thirty passes defended the last three years and thirty one starts, and so that's a good number. It is a good number. I like. I like hearing PFA about local guys because it gives the cowboys a great shot at and you know what good shot that he's out there working right now on at and T's at the stadium and being a part of that. Okay, Dave, thanks so much for tell me more. I always appreciate that. Hope we educated everybody a little bit on that. All right, kid, Kerrison, Yo,

welcome to the program. Thank you, sir. All Right, we're gonna take some calls here now the last ten minutes of the show. We need you to line them up. We're all doing well here in the studio and be nice to kn't so can't take it away. Kleotis in Pennsylvania. You're on the Draft show, all right, I know you guys are good. I'm good, so let's jump right in. Thank you. Well, i'd like to hear from each of you your best case scenarios for the first two rounds,

assuming they stay put. No trading, okay, not what you think they're doing in the war room with the twenty eighth, but what you personally like to accomplish, and if you could have give a brief reason as to why you think they'll fit and really quick, I'll kick off. My first two guy at the top of my draft board is Miles Jack. Okay, I think you're playing as Sam h you play him at the nickel you take uh um McClane off the field during nickel packages, right, um?

And at number two, since they did sign um, well, what's his name? The Jack? The other Jack Crawford? Yeah, Um, back, I'll switch out to Dan instead of d tackle and I'll take either Emmanuel Ogba or Kevin Dott whoever's there. Okay, thank you very much, appreciate the call. Solid got him too. Let's for this exercise, let's assume Miles Jack's healthy. Yeah, and if that's the case, I'm gonna go Miles Jack at four. Um, you know for all the reasons. Uh you know that was just said. The number two A

couple of different directions you could go here. I'm gonna say, say Xavian Howard Baylor'd like to see him Jack and Howard Dave you got a thought on this one? Yeah, Well, I'm this is what I want, right, not what they're gonna do. Yeah, sign me up for Zeke at for hate on Haters. Uh, and I actually um, I would say, you know, I would say, like Corey Coleman, I don't think he'll be there. Uh. Actually I like I like

Xavien Howard. Two. I mocked him as our as my second round guy in our magazine mock, so I'll sign me up for for Xavian as well. And two I also like Miles Jack At One. For me, I'm caught between taking Dixon from Louisiana Tech the running back, and potentially taking Vaughan Bell, the safety from Ohio State, so Joseph might be in there in that mix. Two, I will say that I like Dixon bet or so for me, I'll go Jack and Dixon as my two guys that

I would take. Uh in as the best case scenario, I would say, as a quick caveat, I don't legitimately believe they would take Zeke best case scenario for them, I would oh, no, it's too we would take But yeah, I would say, I would say Ramsey, I think they would take him, and that would Ramsey. He could have said Bosa he could you know, there could have been a lot of Yeah, we could have set a lot of different things. I mean, we could have said should be ze all. I can't Bob in New Jersey. Go ahead,

how you guys don't great? My favorite player is Buckner, and I was wondering how you think he would hold up that left defensive end and then move Lawrence over to the right side. Okay, thank you very much for the call. That's kind of what that's that's the plan. That'd be the scenario if they do add Buckner and it's not worse. I mean, that's not a bad option. Um. I'm not a huge Buckner fan. At four, I like him better than a three to four bos is a

better player than Buckner at four? I think, so, yeah, can you kick Buckner to end to tackle? Not all the time, but that's yeah, that's what he's I mean, I thought about him being like a one. I mean, he he sounds like a more talented David Irving in terms of size and skill set. That's kind of yeah, it's just better body control and better just overall. As athletic says him, Clias Campbell like, and that's what you're looking like with the great three four defensive end right

head up five and gap. It's really easy to write him off because he doesn't fit the scheme, and they let us talk to him. But I mean they did bring him in here. They brought him in for sure he did, so sure he did. He wouldn't be here if there was And we talked him at the combine two about he says, hey, four three teams, we're talking about him inside. So all right, ken't Seth and san Antonio Seth? Yes? Yes, um So, I heard a report today that the Cowboys have acquired about the number one

overall pick. If it is true and they do pull the trigger to move up to number one, who do you think it would be? Thanks taking my call on ahead, listen, I don't know that's next year's one going to somebody. But we talked about I mean, if you just play the chart, if you play their chart, it's next year's one. If they're willing to give the pick away, there's no way. Yeah, you're not giving up next year's one to move up three spots. Does not happening not happen on their chart,

It would say, dude, I don't care. I know, and I know you don't play the chart, not in a top ten because you know, especially this year the top ten, kind us strong pick him somebody at one. Let's say, let's say pick them somebody at one. If they're going up to one, it has to be for a quarterbacks debate. It has to be. They're not drafting Tonsil at one. They don't mean they don't need him, right? What else

are they going to do there? And Jalen Rams is a very nice player, but not worth giving away next year's one. Considering you could be sitting there at four and maybe get Jayalen if they are positively enamored with wins or golf or in some weird universe Lynch, that would have to be what they You would go for the court, you'd make the move, only get the quarterback if you're if you're the Cowboys and you like Wentz

quite a bit. Okay, does it scare you that the Eagles are maybe talking the Titans to move up the number one? Is? That could give you extra incentives? Let me let me let me tell you this, do it? I am I get rid of your future draft picks to draft a quarterbacks? Your opinion? Oh no, my opinion. If I'm a Cowboy fan, go get Winch, go get it, go go. If it doesn't makes drafts if it takes you, you don't have a two and you're going and you're

giving next year's one. But I'm saying, if you're this team and you like but if you like Wins, okay, if yeah, if you're looking at him at four and saying, hey, we'd really like it if Winz falls to four, If Wentz is there at four, we're gonna take him. Does it worry you a little bit that the Eagles are looking at him possibly trading up. Does that give you extra incentive to possibly move up? No? I don't think so. I don't think. I don't believe that they like any

of these quarterbacks that much. Yeah, the fact that they brought six of them in I think tells you that too. Oh yeah, I agree that they're they're they're throwing a big wide net and they're gonna try and grab one. But go get Wins and keep Zeke out of the NF So it's a good question, though, I mean, it doesn't. It doesn't if they're If it'sn't, if it's for true to go get Wins. I can me personally looking at how we've had them graded, right, I'm okay with that

you're taking my third quarterback off the board. Go forth? Probably no, I know you would, But say this team is set at okay. You know, if I say, we're gonna take Wins if he's there at four. If he's not, we'll go We're okay, go in a different direction. But if Winz is there at four, we're going to take it. If they say that wins is their best quarterback and they then they and they let the Eagles trade on him,

I'm sure we'll hear about that. Yeah, I'm sure we'll hear about that would be the only way they'd be trading up right. I think I heard a room and as a rumor, unsubstantiated, but maybe Fletcher Cox would like play a role in some kind of trade to get up there. You do almost have to, because I mean, hey, without a second round pick, get rid of your best defender and a bunch of draft picks to go get Carson Wentz. Go for it. Yah, yeah, go all day. Yeah take if you take, hey take, yeah, take Fletcher

Cox out out of this division. I'm off that. All right? We got time for one more kit? Yeah, Norman in silver spring, go ahead, Hi, guys, think for taking a call Um. Last week, you guys were discussing wide receivers, and I don't think you've talked too much about Perlin's Shepherd. Okay, I wanted to get your thoughts on him. Do you think he's a possibility at thirty four? If not, do you think he could maybe fall to sixty seven? Also?

Do you view him primarily as a spot receiver? You know a lot of people do, but I think you can maybe play maybe playing the Alps side. I'm curious to see how you guys talking about him regarding that, and if you think he's just a spot receiver, that's having Cole Beasley possibly preclude the Cowboys from from really considered him. Okay, thanks great call appreciate that. I almost

instead of Zavian Howard, I almost said Sterling Ship. Yeah, I always Coleman, Thomas, Shepherd, Fuller, kind of those names in the second round. I don't know how you have Shepherd's my number five. It's funny, Shepherd when we started this whole process, he started as my number nine receiver. And the more I watch, more I watch, he just kept climbing. Yeah. Braxon Miller got so much love with the Senior Bowl. Yeah, remind Mellins from last year. Yeah, anyway,

it's the Harden nothing. No, I'm with you. He I got him in the second round. I think that if you'd start talking at thirty four, I don't think he gets to sixty seven, anything can happen. I don't see I don't see him get the sixty seven. And I think he's better than just a slot receiver. I agree, because yeah, yeah, because he has the one trade he has is his elusiveness. Yeah, he could, because he could. He could fly across the field. You could put him

on the move, get him vertical. I've seen him make vertical plays. You can get him inside. You could bring him down and run him on the arrows and drags and stuff like that. Inside across. He can be depressed, he could be out. I think of him the same way I think of Derrick Henry, which is, don't love it at thirty four. Won't be there at sixty seven. He won't be there at sixty seven though. Good job, all right, Hey, thank you guys so much. Yeah, thanks

everybody out there for falling along with us seven dollars. Yeah, this cost the same as a water Burger combo meal. That's right. Go check him out and it also that'd last you for way longer. Star Magazine also too, will be coming out here pretty soon, so all great scouting tools. Okay for my buddies, Dave Burglar, David Hillman, Executive producer Ken Garrison, As we say goodbye twenty days until the

NFL Draft. When we come back, will be two short weeks away from that, so we'll see you next time on the from the sw DC Mortgage Studios