Draft Show: Final Thoughts On 2018 & Looking Ahead

week October twenty. Yeah. I think we'll let Dane Brugler get to get working on this draft. This twenty nineteen draft mock drafts already done for drafteen. How about that. I'm not surprised. It's the worst article I do every year. Oh, I'm not gonna lie. Have a little fun with it. It's fine. Oh, it's stricted for clicks. Let's be honest, of course, it is that I learned this game. Aren't all mocks really for clicks at the end of the day, except for maybe the final one you put out on

draft Day. I mean, I do enjoy doing some of the mocks because it is interesting to It's a thought process. Okay, this team could consider this guy. I've heard this team considers this guy twenty nineteen. It's more of a hey, this is a watch list thirty two names. Keep these guys on your radar on chair defensive line for next year. Oh yeah, you have all four of the Clemson guys going. I do not have Bryant the one end, but I think that he enters the year is like a second

third at the chance to get into late one. Well that's the voice of our scouting buddy, Dane Brugler. Of course, David Helmet across the table from him. Ken Garrison Executive producing today. Yeah, we're gonna try and put a bow on this two thy and eighteen NFL Draft. The three days of coverage here on the on Dallas Cowboys dot Com and then with our partners on one oh five three. As always, the draft show is sponsored by Miller Lite,

and we appreciate all the fine work. And you blow a watch, right, Dave, you blow I'm below on the clock. Kelly only brought that up about twenty five percent as often as we were supposed. Yeah, my timing was that was not always very good, but the execution, the thought was good. You know what, folks, I want to make this show about you today if I could, and we'll get into it. You've kind of heard what we settled

about a lot of these guys. I don't have the official list of the Cowboys who they signed after the draft. I'm gonna get that, hopefully during the show, but and we can get into those guys a little bit. I'll maybe at the end of the show, I'll pick I'll pick Dane Brugler's brain on a couple of guys. I know. David Wells was a guy tight end I saw, and then Cam Kelly was a couple of San Diego State kids, and then to Quinton Osborne as a kid I watch from Oklahoma State that I can kind of talk about

a little bit. But I'll get the official list. We'll go through it. But I do want to make this show about you guys. If we could make sure you tweet us at the draft show, or make sure you hit David Hellman at his account Hellman d see and you know, if you have any questions. I also want to take some calls, you know. We that's something we really haven't done very much because we get in I

run out of time and that's on me. And but if you guys have some you know, some questions for Dane or Dave or myself or you know, want to know some things, give us a shout. KNT. Garrison will be happy to take the call. We're at eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. You'll see it on the top. I believe right corner or a left corner, one of those corners. But that's where we uh and can't. I want to just give you free rain. If somebody calls in, you just fire them through and

we'll get to it. But you want to start off of the call, right? Yeah? Why not? I mean yeah, I mean yeah, we've we've talked about we've talked about this draft and you know, we'll get into it some more. But I want to give people a chance, this one last time to interact with us in this way. So again, go ahead and shoot me a call. Tell me where they're, who they are, and where they're from. And by the way, folks,

everybody in this room is doing very very well. We appreciate you, always concerned, your concern thinking about us, But get your question, get going. We'll we'll get to many as these we can, So go ahead, can't all right? We got Joe in Pennsylvania. Joe, go ahead, it's up, Joe. Good. Good. Guys, Hey just wanted a comment, mainly to finish up. I just want to start out by thanking you, the three of you, for the outstanding job you've done over this season.

You know, Brian, the wisdom and experience you bring from being in the trenches, the passion you have for it just add so much to the show and just undergirds everything that you guys do together as a team. Dane, your current mindset on today's scouting professionalism, the way you carry yourself, that you're that calm kind of logical approach is just you guys are just such a credit to us being able to watch me. I don't watch anybody else just because I trust you. Guys. You're not for flair.

You're not trying to get you know, clicks, as far as you know, trying to trying to show boat things. You just are in the trench is doing what needs to be done. And Dave, the growth I've seen in you over the years, what you bring to that show, to bringing the team together. You bring the best out of Brian. You bring the best at a Dane and you make you make us feel like we're part of the show. So I just want to just tell you, guys how much I think I speak on behalf of

the entire crowd, the entire group that watches you. We thank you so much for all you've put into this. And just a final comment, a lot of people Dallas fans are concerned about well some of the picks and that all I have to say is look at the track record over the years. This front office I think has earned our trust and I think just give it a chance to play out and I think will be

pleasantly surprised. Thank you very much. Appreciate the call. Bade Joe, which one of us, Well, I have a brother Joe in Pennsylvania. Maybe maybe that was I feel like a million bucks right now. Very kind of okay. Uh, you know he's right about the track record for these guys. They seem to find a way to do things drafting wise. There. Well, you know, as we go through this a little bit, you know, I'm I'm with him on I left all my stats upstairs. What stats did you leave upstairs? The

stuff you're looking at, like the draft breakdowns and stuff. Yeah, everything I took the taste everything you gave me, everything I gave you the other night, and said, here, take this, you'll need it. What were you about to say? I was just kind of looking through the draft and I was wondering with what you guys saw, and you know, like the best pick. I'm not saying the best pick, worst pick or anything like that, but just as you went through the picks that they made, where did you

find that the value was. And you know, we we've kind of heard some things now now that since the drafts over. You know that last day it wasn't trying to trade for more, It was trying to trade up for Armstrong. They obviously felt pretty pretty strong about him. You know, we've we've heard about you know, what was going on with you know, Michael gallup at potentially could have been not there if they would have made this, if Seattle would have taken the third round pick for

you know, for the safety there. But kind of go through it in your mind and tell me where you felt like though, Uh, this team uh did a pretty good job of of of getting some value where they picked their picked their players. Well, I think the beauty of this is you could really point to several different points and the draft where they got value. And that's

there's no right or wrong answer here. Um Connor Williams, Michael Gallop into the fourth round with what they did with Armstrong and Schultz, Um, and then getting like a guy like Cedric Wilson late Mike White we loved. Yeah, you know Mike White. Yeah, I had a three to four on him, sure, three on him myself, so exactly we both thought that he was in consideration at the

top one hundred picks. So to get him where they did, Um, you know, I know what was the big thing we talked about going into this draft, how this team has so many needs. Sure, you know that's with me. The first round so unpredictable. They could go five six different positions and no one would bat an eye. It's you know, a lot of fans are upset, Well, we need to get a safety, we need to do interior defensive line. Well, when you look at it, we've been talking about how

there's so many needs. You weren't going to address every single need in this draft, you know, with a top four round pick. So considering what they did, considering who was on the board at the time, I think they did a heck of a job. That's a perfect setup for what I wanted to say, which I'll just keep harping on it, which I love a lot of the stuff they did, but it starts at the top. And that's even with a guy that was not like the

favorite of the three people in this room. You just said before the show you had Layton vander Esh ranked twenty six, So by that logic, you could argue it's a bit of a reach to take him where they did. You could argue that, and I mean you would agree with that. You probably wouldn't have drafted him if you were making the call. But again, you're not going to get a starter caliber player with every pick you make. You had to make sure you address that position with

as good of a player as possible. And to do that, a guy like Layton vander Esh, who can do a little bit of everything, could be your day one starter at Mike if you wanted him or needed him to be on top of a million other things. I thought it was, like I said, even they're not going to ever admit that it was a reach. Maybe it wasn't for them. Maybe they had him ranked fie. It was very it was obvious. They no, well, it's obvious that

they loved him. Yeah, they did, absolutely love because they were they were they had an opportunity to trade up for Derwin James and they didn't and they did and they didn't. And you remember there at the you know, the war room cam there when we did that. You know, they didn't flinch. It was one of those you know me, I'd be terrible. I was always terrible in a war room because I would get a little you could you could get you could tell by my my demeanor. Did

if it was something that bothered me. Yeah, you know if if somebody back in the day when you know, Ozzie was taking picks ahead of us and stuff, and you're kind of and you just kind of, you know, you you just like you look down and you close your eyes and you're just like, you know, you say, damned yourself like that and or throw the pin or whatever. But they were I think people or maybe faulting them

a little bit about the Vanderesh pick. They loved the Connor Williams pick right well, but they're faulting them for because they didn't go get Derwin Jane. And that's well, that's and Hey, I mean, if there's really if there's one thing I could criticize them for, it's not addressing safety. And then they were they tried, they tried to trade for all pro safety. They were up for it, really did. They were upfront and honest about it. After the draft too,

they're like, we didn't get it done. It didn't break that way, and they'll they'll have to figure a way out around that. But uh, my point being, even if they're not going to say it was a reach, maybe they don't think it was a reach, but even if it was a reach, by taking care of that, it opened you up to get better value down the line.

And not only that, but kind of going back to what we talked about last year, I feel way better about asking Layton vander Esh to be that guy than if they had waited until the third round to address linebacker. I think that's that's how you get in trouble. So I like that a lot. We talked a lot about how all the Cowboy had just lost that Week seventeen game, they'd have pick fifteen, pick sixteen, wherever it would Yeah, even if they had that pick, I think Layton Vanderesh

would have been the pick. Even with Derwin James on the board, I think Layton Vanders would have been a pick. He was the guy that they identified. They might have drafted over Tremy and Edmunds. Sure, I think that's very possible. I could have happened. So um, you know, I don't.

I don't want fans to have any remorse about that, because again, if they had the fifteen sixteenth pick Hick, if they trade it up, everyone had been like, oh they're going to get Derwin, get Derwin, they would have gone up to get Layton vandersh Yeah, that was the guy they identified early on. And yes I had him as twenty six on my board, but really I'd say between the picks, like on my board seventeen to thirty, it was so close. Ye mean, there was like the

same tier you were struggling for that. I was the same way because I had him as twenty eight on my board. I think I told you, but I had Connor Williams above him. Yeah, so you know, to me, the Cowboys off my top fifty got three players out of that. Every every pick they had, the first three picks were all second round picks on my board. If you're follow along on on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. I put out my board, so you know exactly where my

interests was on as far as that board. So yeah, I mean I think that the I think the execution again, I look at the draft, and I think Dane's got a great idea about not grading. You know, because I had a guy one time and I told the story a bunch. I had a scout one time in Philly tell me that that. You know, he said, you just had the worst draft in the history of the National Football League. I looked at him and I said, do you think you want to give that a couple of

years to three years? Because no, no, you had it well you know, three or four years later for the eight picks make the Pro Bowl. I mean, you know, and so you know, I just I think you have to be careful about that. I think when you look at the execution the plan, I think that's where you I think that's where you have to avou Did they do the things? Did they not get a safety? Yeah they didn't, But was the execution of the other picks

what you that is? I think if you listen to this show from January until now, yeah, I mean this year, but any year. Like, the number one thing I think it teaches you is that's that's just not a way you can look at the draft in the immediate aftermath. Like all all you can do is look at the players great amount, see what the value is, and appreciate the strategy. The strategy worked out really well. I think

they got really good value. That doesn't mean any of the picks are going to work out, but you I mean, it is what it is. That's the nature of the draft. Um, were you guys surprised they took nine picks, Yes, no, I think if there's one thing I feel, you know, I think we were right about a lot of our inklings about what they might try to do. Yeah, I was dead wrong about that. I thought that that was the one I missed on too. I feel like they

make at least two trade. Well they did make two trades, but I thought, you know, I thought they it would be higher up in the draft. I thought it would be a little more costly. I mean they didn't make a single trade with UH in terms of moving up or down to play. No, No, they didn't make a move. They gave it a sixth round picked to get an established player, whether he's established or not. At least you

have an idea what Tavon Austin could be. I mean, it was enough to move on from I mean, god, how many minutes did we spend hours probably talking about jumping from nineteen to twelve, fifty to thirty. But but that's the whole idea you've got, and you got to do that. You were I mean, I think the thing too is when you look at and you Dane, you even read your report about Ward Jihad Ward who who that's a Will McClay guy that yeah, yeah, when when when they coached in the Senior Bowl. When Will when

the Raiders offered him? That was a no brainer for Will. They you know, they had Austin already, so you know I had people kind of say, oh, well, you know, and even in the mail bag this morning day, we had a guy say, oh, camp body. Yeah, this is not this is not a camp body. This is a guy that will honestly come in and compete for a spot. But a guy that they thought enough of that they're

going to sacrificed. You know, Brandon's excuse me, Ryan Switzer and say okay, we'll take this gun because we like him better. Than Ryan Switzer the flip side of that coin. I mean again, I can appreciate the strategy. Who knows if it's gonna work out. I mean they they thought Benson Mayo was really going to be a big time sure lottery pick for them and didn't really, so we'll see. But he's got the traits they like he was. I think I think I heard they had a third round

grade on him in sixteen. Sure, so I mean, you get Tavon Austin. Like I said, I mean, I don't love the idea of sending Ryan Switzer away, but I see the logic and if it works out, then it it's not a heavy price to pay, and real quickly. We talked about um even the day before the draft, using your second, your third to move up to you know, thirty four, thirty five to get Courtland Sutton right who ended up going forty So they could have worked. Yeah.

So but now that we can look back, who would you rather have Connor Williams and Michael Gallup or Courtland sut Not even close? Yeah? See to me, Yeah, this is this is where this is where the Dame Burgler School of Patients pace off. Here. This is like Okay, stop wanting to trade all my picks, Brian, you know, don't let me go up, you know, but I total him with you on that because again, you look at and those are two players that I had in my

top fifty. And you need to remind somebody one day when you're in a war room that you know, when you get to be and you know, doing that the next spring, yeah, next spring, doing you you know, say, hey, listen to who do we really want here? Look at the big picture here, and I think if you're Dallas Cowboys, as much as I wanted him to go up and be aggressive and do things, stand right there and making picks was the right way to go. Shouts out to all my people who were convinced Jerry was going to

make a splash because the draft was in his building. Yeah, they had a really good draft, in my opinion, but nothing splashy about it, just making picks. Who's the one player, Dane that you know you look at this board and take We'll take Mike White out of it, because really he's the lottery pick, you know. I mean, hopefully he'll get some good work during the preseason and you kind of get a little bit more idea what he's like.

I just love the player though, But who's the guy that we're kind of not We're gonna we're gonna talk about right now, just to kind of give people and I do you think, Okay, this guy is gonna come in and and and we understand Vanderish and maybe Connor Williams, But who's the guy that you have that you say, hey, listen, watch this guy. Once he puts on a pro uniform, He's gonna be it. He could be a difference maker

for you there. Well, I think obviously Gallup, um I don't think it would surprise anybody if he became the best receiver on this roster by the end of his rookie year. I think that's possible. Um So, I think he's in that mix. But if we look at some of the Day three guys, if Jason Wynn does indeed retire, yeah, then Dalton Schultz, all of a sudden he gets thrust into the spotlight. You know, he's gonna be put into a mix with some other tight ends who have more experience.

But Schultz has better talent, and so at some point during this season the talent will win out. He will see the field and coming from that Stanford offense, he's well versus a blocker. Uh, he understands what us. Put his hand on the ground, play in line. You know, he's not the amazing athlete that you want as a receiver, but he can get open. He can go down the field.

So I think Dalton Schultz, you know, ready or not, might be thrust into a role where he's going to see plenty of action, plenty of snaps, and so we have to wait and see how the Jason Witten saga plays out. This is a question. This ties into a question I've gotten from a lot of people, you know, since we since I tweeted this morning. Yeah, by the way, we are taking your questions day, will grab him or you call remember eight eight eight eight five five two

two nine seven. We'd like to hear from you. You know, don't be shy about it. Pick up the foam, give us a shout or tweet a question at at Helm and DC there and we'll try and get that taken care of. And you know, I don't know how big of an impact he's going to have because he's got an All Pro ahead of him on the depth chart, but a lot of people are curious why Bo Scarborough was there in the seventh. I mean you had a fourth fifth on him, big, bigger, big name, big dude,

big program. It just I mean, I'm I was kind of surprisedly fell that far too, to be totally honest, Yeah, I am too. U How I mentioned when he was picked, this is a player with only two hundred eight career touches, so catch or carries and catches, so he wasn't utilized as kind of that feature back role. H. He has the size of a linebacker, and that's both that's a double edged sword. You know, it's good and bad. It's

good because he will run over defenders at times. Uh. He uses that forward lean where he can power and get you those inches in short yardage your goal line. But he's also a huge target, so defenders knows they know he's coming. There's no hiding behind offensive linemen. Um. And I need to see him for a guy that that's big. I need to see him get better as a blocker and pass protection that that was an issue for him at times. As a receiver. He's okay, So

there just doesn't have he doesn't have that dominant trait. Yeah, he looks great, doesn't always play up to that size on a consistent level that you want to see. So but here in the seventh round or on late rounds that you take a chance on a guy like that. Yeah, I keep talking about what widely from Iowa that I think he's signed with anybody. Yeah, he did Tennessee and put a forward by the way, went to Seattle. That's the out of my draft, and they I'm in for

a top thirty. There's a there's a team that knows something about defensive lineman. So catch an eye on that one. Um. But I think the thing with to me with Scarborough is Scarborough gonna be able to play special teams? You know how Scarbough gonna be able to be an active guy on the forty six. Everybody's like, oh, that's a great one to bring. But you know, how did how did Rod Smith make this team? Special team? Special teams?

Big guy, big guy special? Okay, if you're gonna be a big guy be special teams, I would think he can do it. Yeah. Well that's what I'm saying, though, I mean, you're you're you're talking about a guy. It's kind of been kind of nicked up some does he mean we see a big body, but do you see the toughness to be able to say, Okay, I'm gonna put this behind me. You know, I'm not gonna worry

about having to carry the ball anymore. I'm gonna I'm gonna try and be one of the best special teams players that I could be, you know, And I don't know if he necessarily if his game translates to a guy like Rod Smith developed because again, like you said, special teams, I don't know if I don't know if both Scarborough can be a guy that all of a sudden, is he going to be on the fifty three or someone're gonna beat him out because you know, Jerry Jones

even said it himself. To be the third back on this team, you got to find a way to play special teams. And I worry about Scarborough in that in that deep and he's I mean he's the fourth technically because you got a full back in Yeah, who plays who plays special teams? Yeah, you know, Ola Wally does line it. But the beauty don't think as good as Keith Smith was. But we'll see the beauty of that is that I mean, you tend to you first of all, you overvalue your own team's picks, right, and also he's

a very recognizable name given where he's coming from. I mean, if he doesn't make the fifty three, he seems like a practice squad, no brainer. Oh sure, that's fine. Sure. And the other thing about Scarborough is the injuries in the In my guide, I go back to high school. In high school, it reseeason ending injuries. Yeah. So it's just he's a guy that struggled as they healthy in the past, and uh, you know, it's a guy that didn't carry the ball a lot at Alabama and he

still was dinged up quite a bit. I just again, I look at if you if you want to talk about some things that I might have been might have been different. I mean, okay, I'll even throw you this one. I think the kid that William from LSU would have been a special teams guy. You don't have to you don't have to get me the top running back on my board. And see that's what I'm saying. I mean, you you're you're teams in Kansas City, by the way, right,

and there's another team that knows something about backs. They've taken a few LSU backs have something minutes something. I just kind of I look at I look at the situation, and I say, Okay, if you're give me a guy that's got a chance to make my team. I get Scarborough, I mean, he Freagan, he's a tank, I get it. But I'm trying to think, Okay, what's the best opportunity for him to make my team. Be a be a special teams guy, be a really good catcher out of

the backfield, and be an adequate pass block. One of the most refreshingly honest things that came out Saturday was after it was all over, Stephen Jones was like, we're gonna get a good look at him this summer because y'all know, Zeke's not going to play a lot. So yeah, he's gonna have he's gonna get to work. So we'll show what he can do and we'll see and we'll see if in fact, he can do all the things that we were talking about. Okay, well, we're gonna take

our first break when we come back. I think Dave's got some questions again. We're trying to question, yeah, and we're trying to encourage you to call too. If you can listen, If you're listening. If you're out there on periscope, you've tuned in. We do appreciate you guys doing that as well. Give us a shout. We'd like to hear your voice. Like to hear your question upfront. Don't be shy about it. We'll get your best answer, so you'll have the draft show presented by Miller Lte, So stay tuned.

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This is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Showboys. We are back here with the Draft Show from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian brought us, Dame Brugler, David Hellman, Kent Garrison as always executive producing. I did encourage folks to call in. I want to talk to you. I think we all want to talk to you. We've done a lot of talking ourselves this weekend, so we want to make sure that you have an opportunity to kind of

get your word in if you want to. So can't if you've got some calls, Yeah, let's go for it. I'll just throw the show to you and you can give it a go. We're gonna go to Josh at Mayport Navel. Go ahead, Josh, right, hey, Josh, all right? So I agree with the last caller, like, you guys are awesome. The way how you guys educate us is as the fans are unbelievable. Thank you very much. I personally, I'm excited about this draft. I think we did hell of a pics of great trades and I'm really excited

about it. So I just have a couple of questions for you guys. Sure go ahead in regards to the receiver, So I'm just I'm a bit torn here because I believe that all the receivers can create a unique asset to his team. So I'm just kind of confused on who's the odd man out. And as far as the draft and off season, how much more confident do you feel about the projective execution of our quarterback? And the last question that I have, I'm sorry that I have

a lot of questions about it. And the last question is um, now that we've dropped cornor Williams, do you believe that the best fob approach UM is more feasible now now that we have him now? So I'm no. Last year, I don't know, there was quite speculation about uh, some people didn't really agree with the best fob approach because it kind of hurt us as a tame. But now can we get away with that? And I'll just take your call off. Thanks Josh, appreciate you, sir, appreciate

you taking the time to call. Okay, I will David Hilmet give me the odd man out potentially or kind of line up what you see with that. That's really the beauty of it. And you know, I'm not gonna lie at y'all. I don't know. Yeah, I mean, but that's that's but that's the beauty of it. You look at it, you take him to training camp and figure it out. And in all honesty, I think there's so there are there eight right now there and okay, I think there's ten if you include like Katie Cannon Lancelot,

But go down the depth chart. Your guess is as good as mine. I think it's it's a really good bet that Alan Hearns is here because they gave him a pretty good decent amount of money and he also he feels a role that they don't really have in terms that he's probably the biggest bodied receiver on this team, uh and his versatile. So he's here. Michael Gallup is here because you spent the top one hundred pick on him. I mean, yeah, you don't cut third round picks. I

don't remember the last time that happened. And at least not in his rookie year. Um. Other than that, it's pretty wide open. I mean, um, I think I think you you could maybe add Terrence Williams to that mix, because again, it hurts the team to cut him. It actually would cost them four million dollars. They don't get any savings. But you could just rip that band aid

off if you were really convinced you wanted two. But I would guess he's probably safe, So you take those three could be a g though he could I mean, well, they they say that they think he's ready for the start of camp or they feel like he will be. We'll have to see. Uh. And then the thing with that too is if you're on pup at the start of camp, you have all of camp to get off of. Yeah, it's not like the regular season where there's a limit. So, uh,

those three stand out to me as pretty comfortable. Tavon Austin is on a one year deal and sixth round pick. That's not a big deal if you don't like him. Cedric Wilson is a seventh round pick or was it sixth sixth round pick? Um, that's nothing. Six round picks don't make the team all the time. Cole Beasley's on a one year deal. Deonte Thompson is on a vet minimum deal like that, there's there's only there's really only two or three of these guys that you're married to,

so you take him to camp and figure it out. Um, And that's why, honestly, you know, like I said, it kind of hurts to let go of Ryan Switzer before you got to see what he could do. But he kind of became redundant once you traded for Tavon Austin, So that's another guy that you don't have to keep who his odds of making the team are not great when you consider that's with that Beasley and Austin are now here, so it made sense to kind of try to clear up that room before you even get into

the process of practicing. So, um yeah, I'm really excited to see just competition. Take ten guys to camp and see who has the best month. And that's what Stephen Jones and Jason Garrett have been saying since February, and they were pretty true to it because there shouldn't be very many people in that room who were comfortable that they're going to have a job when the regular season gets here. I will give Noah Brown some credit. I

didn't even mention Brown. Noah Brown and Lancelor I'll give them some credit because in the in the captain's workouts or they've not missed a day. No, these guys kind of see the riding on the wall and they know they have to be in the absolute best shape. Okay, the question Another question was about I bet they keep six and put two on the practice squads. So take your pick, all right, And he asked about the execution of the quarterback. He meant, O line too, but go ahead,

but no, that's what I'm saying. I was going to get from the Connor Williams one too. Yeah, but no, the execution of the quarterback. What do you think better? Better execution from the quarterback this year? Kind of a things, you know, with maybe the stability with the offensive line. Yeah, we'll see the offense looks like without Whitton. Yeah that's if that's what's going to happen. I'll tell you where the offense is going to look different without Witton and

without Dez Bryant. Red zone. Yeah, it's gonna be a different team in the red zone. I mean, because the one thing Witton was very good at was his ability to play in the red zone, and then of course Dez Bryant with the fifty fifty ball. So yeah, that they're clearly going to look differently. I think that. I think I'm excited a healthier offensive line. Ezekiel Elliott, you know, being there full time, you hope that the the You hope that what you saw from rod Smith will help

the quarterback late too. As far as if you know he gets in there and gets goes, I think you got you know, all your receiving targets are gonna it's just gonna get open and I'll find you. And they're not worrying about getting the ball to anybody. We're not gonna have to go on talking Cowboys or the Break the week after a game and say, how come Dez isn't getting more targets or Dez is getting too many targets.

I mean, just get open and I'll find you. And on top of that, assuming he makes the team, I'm intrigued by what Tavon Austin can do in the sense that he's a more well rounded, lucky whitehead. I think he can do a lot of that type of stuff and do more than Lucky did. So I think that's another wrinkle that should really help that Connor Williams is your starter at left guard, don't you feel like he

should be? I think so. Yeah. But the best five thing is interesting because Okay, if Tyron does go down, yeah, I mean he Connor Wills could kick out the left tax. Yeah, absolutely, if you feel more comfortable with him doing that, or you know, then maybe move Lyle Collins the left guard, Cameron Fleming at right tap. I mean they've got options with if one of those guys goes down up front at the five. I mean, what if Travis Frederick goes down,

who's your center? Yeah, I think that we're gonna give Connor Williams snaps. And I mean he did work out. I mean you're absolutely right about that. He didn't work out for the Saints, you know, as as a center. So yeah, and and we've seen in some training camp practices. I remember watching Zach Martin the US take some snaps and stuff. So yeah, Connor Williams seemed like a pretty

good fit for that. So yeah, I kind of I would just seem like that Connor Williams is gonna be your start at left Martin Martin is going to be the backup there. You know, that's the best way forward, I think. And maybe Lyle Collins could be a better left guard. But yeah, if you spent the top and they said at the press conference that they see him as an interior O lineman. So there's telling you they spent a top fifty pick on a guard. Yeah, he should be good enough that the drop off isn't so

severe that they need to move Lyle. I guess. So I'm just plugging him right in and going, I got you, can't anything else anybody else? Yeah, we got Roman in Georgia. Roman, go ahead up. Hey, good afternoon, guys. I just want to echo what the previous two callers had had said about two guys doing such an awesome job calling in for a few years. Sure, it's the first time I've called in on the Draft show. Thank you. And I want to point out something. Two comments. One compliment for

David Hellman, a tiny Jim Yeah. Just you know, I want to say, over the last couple of years, what ton people might call I know you've referred to yourself as kind of a negative Nancy. I call that devil's advocate, and I agree with that two Collars ago where he said you bring out the best in Brian, I think the way you your brutal and I would call it

brutal honesty. Sure, and then Devil's Advocate that he plays, I think brings out the best in in Nick and Mickey and you, Brian, I think it adds so much to the show. So, David, you've done a great job the last few years. Thanks man, I really appreciate. My question is I know Mickey has brought out since Dezin's release, how many times has Nick NICKI brought up the point, well, now that Dez is gone, who's going to be that guy? The defenses say, you know, we've got to know where

he is on the field at all times. We're going to put our best guy on him, or they're going to double team him to stretch the defense, make them play honest so that they don't load seven or eight men in the box and say we dare you to beat us through the air because we're not really worried about it. And I know at the end of last year, Brian, how many times did you comment on Dez's game performance? Yes, the uncharacteristic I would say, um characteristic amount of drops,

even Beasley's. Even Beasley, who is normally mister reliable for the few catches that he gets throughout the year, has always been mister reliable. There was a lot of uncharacteristic drops throughout the course of the end of the season. I felt, Now, my question is is there any reason why, well, thank you, oh hey, losing there. I don't know. Maybe just Kenny. Maybe the defense say, you know what, we've got to know where he is because if we don't keep an eye on him, he's going to burn us.

Who won this wide receiver cord or do you feel has the potential to be that guy to keep the defenses from loading seven or eight men on the box and making and given Ezekiel a hard day? All Right, thank you very much, Roman, appreciate all your words. Seeing that a lot. And maybe I'm being too simplistic, but load the box. I want you to. I think they played against loaded box when they win thirteen games. They

did well. Honestly, the for this receiver core to work, you want a loaded box like you have first round picks all across your line and an all pro running back. That's what you want teams to do. You want him to load up and say throw against us, because that's how Cole Beasley winds up in single coverage, and that's how you get favorable matchups on the outside, is that they overcompensate to stop the run. And honestly, if Connor Williams is what he's supposed to be, this team should

be able to run again stack boxes. I'm gonna tell you there's two guys, and Dank correct me if I'm wrong. Well, I'll comment. Tell, Okay, talk about Michael Gallup and what you think about him as a route runner. I'm trying to find a guy on this team that will separate. You know that can be that guy? I know, I know that that Thompson I think he can separate. I mean,

I watch him play. I watched him motaate. But I want to I want to hear what you think about Michael Gallop because I think he's the one guy you got that really can't separate. Yeah, I think so too. And you know he's not going to blow you away from his size speed standpoint, and so he has to maximize his skill set and he does that. He's very detailed and what I love about when I watched him, every step has a purpose. You know, there's no waste that steps out there. If he's taking a jab at

the off the line, is trying to beat pressed. If he's trying to, you know, go twelve steps down the line before he makes his cuts. I mean, he knows exactly what he's doing, very calculated, but he's not. At the same time, he's not slow with what he's doing. He's not explosive, but he's not slow. So I really like him as a as a route runner. Very subtle with the way he uses tempo, the way he uses patients.

So a big fan of what he can do because again, not gonna blow you away from a size speed standpoint, but he's crafty and he works hard at his craft and I think that shows on tape, and I think it'll show as a rookie because we talk a lot about how wide receivers. That's a position that takes the longest transition historically for rookies because they're not used to facing you know, Jalen Ramsey and Patrick Peterson and these big cornerbacks press them, snap in, snap out, they're not

really used to that. But I think Michael Gallop he is experienced enough and he's polished enough where he's going to have his struggles as a rookie, but it won't be as pronounced as some of these other rookies. Yeah see, I think he man, you hit the nail on the head of this guy. This is to me that that's the one guy I was trying. Hey, give me a guy or two that can separate. Give me somebody that doesn't.

You know, Alan Hurns, I've said this song, I think and Herns is very similar Route Runners what you saw from Dez Bryant, right. I think he's you know, maybe has a little bit better experience as far as getting open and you know it does. We've seen some good, we've seen some bad. But you know, Hearns I think is you know I kind of always said, hey, he's the same guy Michael Gallop and Thompson to me, even

Cedric Wilson to a little bit of a point. You know, Cedric Wilson, if you watch him play at Boise, a lot across the field, a lot of like lines up wide right and then all of a sudden, is all the way across the field up in the you know, on a on a post a post pattern ball down the field to him. I think he's got some separation to him as well. But Gallup is the one. He's the one that you could say, Okay, that's the guy that can separate. That's the guy that's gonna make some plays.

That's the guy that's gonna present some problems, you know, once he gets going, because again he's gonna need some experience, but he has he has the ability to be a guy that can run some routes like that. I got a couple of points I want to hit. Do we need to take a break from Yeah, let's t take a break again. We'll take your calls too as we go along. Eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. When we came back, I promise that we'll

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is the downas Cowboys dot Com Draft shows. We are back here with the Draft Show from SWBC Mortgage Studios, presented by Miller Lite Ken Brian brought us Dame Burglar, David Hellman, Kick Garrison Executive producing Uh this broadcast. So, uh, Dave you said you had some Yeah, And I have one that I really want to get to because I think it's a very fair point from Kuran here on Twitter. Um. You know, I think we all feel really good about this draft. This has been you know, very positively looked

at um in our circles. But I think it's worth it to look at the downside. Which so the question is, you know, what, what are the Cowboys going to do? What can the Cowboys do about safety? And are you content with the next man up philosophy in the sense that, hey, I get it, the draft doesn't always work the way you want it to. You got to make some tough decisions, but they did not address a position that was looked at as a need going in. So how do you

feel about that? I think that to me, they have a lot of faith, a lot a lot of faith in what's going on with their current safety group, and I'm I'm curious, I'm curious what they would they would they feel like though that I'm trying to say this in a way, would you do you feel like if you needed a you got Woozy as a starter? Yeah?

At left corner? Right? That mean, isn't that I spent the last month and a half terrified that they were going to mess up a good thing with the O line now I'm terrified they're going to mess up a good thing with their secondary because they didn't get a safety. And that's basically Stephen and Jerry Jones said, you know, we really good about Xavier Woods, but we're we can look within this team if we have to, meaning that Byron Jones and Cheetah Woozier both have the flexibility to

play safety. And from the sounds of it, you know, when they go through these twelve or fifteen spring practices, if they don't like what they see, they could consider tinkering with the lineup, which I don't like. Yeah, and look, it wasn't it was a year ago right around this time when we were so stoked about Xavier Woods being Privas team. Yeah right, so you know, I know a little bit as worn off, but let's not forget what we thought of him coming out of college and what

he could be. So, you know what, I'm eager to see what he could be as a full time free safety, you know, giving him more consistent reps deposition. So while I mean that's kind of the half glass full approach, but you know it's I'm excited to see Xavier Woods and what he can do. I and I agree. I mean I've said this before, like I'm not trying to hate on the guy, I really, I mean he could be a really good player. But you don't see teams just not address something like and honestly, like we roll

our eyes so much. But even if they just wanted to bring in like a Robert Blanton, like a journeyman veteran who has some experience starting like right, they have three safeties on the roster right now, and usually you have like six going into a training camp. Do they this is gonna sound crazy, dude, you know, you look at you look at their situation. Dude, they put Jamille Showers. I mean it's okay. I mean he's there, you know, and then Huff you know, as as another guy. I'm

just talking about down the line guys. I know it's not starter type guys, but do you know do they want it? Do they want to fully give Xavier Woods a chance with he's gonna happen? Because I don't think they're gonna go but I don't think they're gonna go and get one of these guys like not now. Yeah, I don't know, but I'm not closing the door on that. And I mean again, when you said that and I and I mean, I said, you know, it just doesn't

seem like that it's the route that they want to go. No, no, it's absolutely not the route they want because this is this is when guys get signed. This is when guys like does Brian after the draft it was like, okay, well we need to get mine. And I said this, I mean, when did Rolando McLean join this team the year he was good June July? I mean like that, the um they've made ow justin Durant last year. I mean, it's in a spot of it's a spot of need. Um.

I just don't see them going that route though. After I don't think they want to, But maybe they're gonna look at what's going on with the OTAs and say, wow, we cannot That's exactly what we cannot play without one of these guys. Nobody that I can think of in the last five years has a bigger opportunity than Xavier Woods does these next two months. Because if he goes out at OTAs and blows him away and just looks like the guy, yeah, then he's the guy. And maybe

maybe they'll bring in somebody for depth. But otherwise, then I think they're going to find a way to bring some competition in here by August. That. I mean, that's just me trying to read between the lines. But it is curious that, like I said, you usually, even if it's just a vet minimum signing, you usually see this team do something to bolster the competition there, and they just have not done that. Did you do a report on a kid named Tyree Robertson from Oregon? Did you

see him? I did? Well. I actually, can we talk about cam Kelly first? Yeah, that's okay that I'm asking because cam Kelly. Okay, again, cam Kelly is rumored to be a guy who is is going to be signed as one of the undrafted and he kind of looks like a safety either way. Physically, he looks like a safety. Yeah. He played strong safety for for the Aztecs first few years, played that war position right before they moved him the corner as a senior. He is so physical to the

line of screen. Yeah, it's I'm saying puff aggressive. I mean I think it put up my report. He looks like he's trying to steal their lunch money. Yeah. The other way, Oh no, I had like a fifth, sixth round grade. Yeah, okay, fan of him and what he could do as a tackler. I don't know if he has the the quick twitch at the top of routes where he can stay with receivers and that kind of thing. But I mean, you got to see what he could do. Uh, if we might have something with m cam kelly, if

he could believe Um. But do you think but you said he played safety at San Diego State, right, Yes, first three years he played safety, and then he moved outside the corner, he played inside and the nickel, so they moved him around as kind of a versatile defensive back. Okay, and then I'm asking you about and again I didn't I hope I didn't put you on the spot about because it appears that a young man Tyree Robinson, the from Oregon who's more of a free se or safety

free state. I don't know where his he fits on your grand scheme of things. Yeah. No, I'm looking at my notes on Tyree Robinson played a lot of single high He looks small, Uh, doesn't anticipate in coverage, waits for the play to unfold before attack, plays on his heels and coverage. Yeah, ranks, low tackler, good hand, strength

of hook, and finish accurate strike zone. So it sounds like a I had him as more of a better run defender, bryan coverage guy, which I think this team has plenty of m But you know we'll see it because he did play a lot of free for Oregon. Yeah, okay, I'm just gotta that's just saying if he's a single high guy. If he's a single high guy, that makes a lot of sense for how they play their scheme. I did not I did not see him, So I was looking at his measurables. Uh you see the short

on tape. I got it from Oregon Pro Day six zoo two two two two one last reading for the year. Yeah, but but his times were four to five, four four five eight thirty seven a half vertical ten ten on the broad jump twenty shuttle was four three four sixty, shuttle was eleven fifty five three cone was seven one zero, So you know we'll see. But yeah, he was six two two h two is and his speed if you split it would be four or five six. So that

was a guy. It sound like he's the one guy that they are they're looking at as a potential potential free safety. And then and then Dane also brought up the fact that Cam Kelly and I don't disagree with you about the physicality of cam Kelly. I think that he's a I think he would be a guy that I immediately would put over there and say, Okay, you know, go go learn how to play safety, young man. Yeah, you know. And he played that war position for the Aztecas.

He was moved around a lot. Yeah, sure was, And so I think that gives you some optimism that he could potentially find a fit and you know he's gonna he's gonna bring on special teams. He's a physical, physical kid. He played quarterback in high school. Uh somewhere in Texas, I believe, so, Uh he's still relatively new to the position. Yeah, okay, David, I got a thought, Well, we've covered so much of it, but I would argue the forgotten man in this year's

draft class as a dude by the name of Chris Covington. Yeah. You went right up to your office after the draft, was I did, started watching tape of my guy here. So just give us a follow up on the Indiana linebacker. Yeah, you know what he's six two two forty five four seven eight is the speed. I think that the thing I liked. I thought he had some good reactions to the ball. He will come forward to deliver a blow. He plays along the line pretty square. He was aware

of his assignment, what was going on around him. He will he will show you a little burst out of his back pedal when he dropped in coverage and zone coverage. I saw a guy that would drive on the football. I like the way he moved. He didn't look jerky or hesitant or anything like that. He doesn't get hung up, you know, with stuff. I feel like I felt like he was a pretty good wrap up tackler. He could get outside because of his ability to make a tackle.

I like that. There are times though he gets caught on the wrong side of the ball. You will watch him, you know, with as good as his movement skill is, you will see like all of a sudden, he's like he's coming forward and he's like, oh no, I'm trapped, and he knows it, and that happens to him. I'm not gonna say quite a bit, but they're like once every three or four plays, you'll see him get caught

in the wrong spot. But is you know, and because his initial movement is to go to the ball and then it's like, oh, I shouldn't, I should be over on the other side. But he can close from the backside. I like the way he played with his hands. He has to be careful not to overrun the play too. That's another one of his issues. I'd like to see him redirect a little bit better. And it can be a little steps slow in coverage, but he worked through the trash. Okay that he was having a deal with

the watched Ohio State, Michigan State in Wisconsin. So some pretty good, you know, physical teams upfront, and he was physical right with him. It's probably gonna be a special teams guy for you. But again that the movement is not bad. Just worry a little bit about him getting caught on the wrong side of the play. There you go like that, Yeah, oh it sounds about right where

where you're drafting him. Well, I mean, he was the one guy that I did not have on my board and the red and I'll tell you this, I was going through all of Danes. I wanted to make sure I had every one of Dane's draft stable players. I had watched everyone of Danes draftable players. That's always a goal of mine. And he was there, and he was ranked. He was the last PFA right the first PA. He was the first PFA. So I didn't get if I'd have gone one more guy down, then I would have

I would have had him all next year. You gotta do the top five pfas and I guess, I guess, but it got me. Always get back. Always yeah, if you always, if you look at his draftable guys, you're gonna you're gonna have a pretty good board. Well, let me ask you what you know it's hard to do this like a will linebacker? Well, like what great would you have put on him? If you you know, oh, I thought where he I thought more? Probably would have

put him in the sixth round. If I look at the guys who were down there are those outside linebackers that were down on the bottom of the board. I had, like guys like Bellamy Left, I had sky More down there, I had who else I have that those are the only two guys that I had that were really that were worth it. But he would have been he would have been right down there in that range with those guys.

Question from Derek, which I feel really good. I feel like the tone of this show suggested that linebacker would be the pick at nineteen. We weren't necessarily always sure which one it would be, which leads me. I mean, Rashaun Evans from Alabama was taken twenty two, so it was right in that range of what we thought too. But what do you think they saw in Layton Vanderesh that prompted them to pick him over Evans? What's the one word I keep using with him. He's an as

sending player. He's getting better and better, and I think just the versatility he can play Mike, you play Sam could play well, could play any single one of those positions. That's key with with Evans, I think you worry a little bit about what is his position? Yeah, can you play all three positions interchangeably? Where with Vanderesh, I don't think you worry about that. I think you feel good

he can do it. And then just again, when you watch his tape chronologically from the start of the season to the end of the season, I just me speaking about when I was doing it. I became so much

more optimistic about him as a player. When you take everything into account, where he came from, his background, the fact that he was banged up as in two, sixteen, ten and seventeen his first real true starting reps, and then he just got better and better and better, And so that gives me a lot of optimism moving forward for him. And the fact that I don't even think he's close to his ceiling, like he still has a ways to go where he's going to get better and better.

I think the phrase he's only going to get better is overused and very often untrue, but with him, I do see him getting better and better as he sees more reps, he's more snaps. I'm very eager. If I'm a Cowboys fan, I am excited about lating Vanderesh. Think I think he hit the nail on the head. I think that there were more questions about where where to play Evans. I think they were thinking, Okay, is he is he? Really? Is he just a will? Can he be a Mike? I mean I think that I think

they liked the player. Obviously they brought him in, but I felt like with vander Esh, they they have an idea where they want to do with him, and maybe as an idea of what they want to do with Jalen Smith. Well, now, and that's okay, that's another question we got that ties into that. Yeah, and I mean we've talked about it, but whatever we're wrapping up. Just how do you see Layton being used here in his first year same as a mic linebacker, don't you? From

day one? I think he's got an excellent chance to be the starting mike. Yeah, I think there might be a little bit of a competition there. You know, him and Jalen are gonna get reps and you're gonna see it, and then all of a sudden, it's gonna turn into Jaalen's gonna start getting reps with Sam linebacker, you know, or maybe Layton Vanderis will get reps at s Sam linebacker. You don't you think it's as easy as just sailing saying Jalen will wind up at Sam though. I think that.

I think that if you look at the progression of him, I think the way he plays physically along the line, and the fact that they want to use him as a pass rusher, that's kind of his more better of a strength at his than it would be to be as a drop guy. So yeah, I kind of feel like that they'll say, Okay, we'll keep all our linebacker on the field, but we'll use one of them. You kick, you kick somebody inside, you kick, you know, or maybe

you take Crawford off the field. Yeah, you know, and you got one of those one of those rush guys depend on. Hey, you never know, Cony Ealy, one of these guys, you know, makes a team. Maybe the health of u Tappers better see what happens. But yeah, I kind of feel like that they'll take Jalen and make him a rush and not have to put him in a lot of drop situations. I think, even with the concerns about Jalen's health, and you know, we'll see how

quickly uh Layton vander esh adapts. Yeah, but this is as good as the Cowboys linebacker corps looked on paper, and well it was. It was a bad it was a bad situation though, but pre draft that was something that we've kind of felt like, that's a testament to the pick. I think. Yeah, and then I mean you add to it with Covington and Joe Thomas, I think is a solid free agent signing Damian Wilson. You know, if if they were going to try him to be

a starter. I think he would have shown that more by now, but it's still a good depth piece to have. And then you've got three. I mean, you have an all pro in one spot and then two highly athletic

players with huge upside filling the other two spots. I mean, even in twenty fourteen when Rolando had such a great year at MIKE, remember Sean Lee didn't play that whole year, right, So if all three of these guys can play and contribute at even a good level, let a lot, great, that's I mean, that's about as good as we've seen here. I think they're going to keep their eye to eye

on the waiver wires and stuff. I think they're gonna keep their eyes on other teams for cuts and stuff like that, idea to see kind of if there's a young guy there that they can camp. So, okay, we'll listen to We're running out of time here, but I do I want to take the last a few seconds that we have again to thank everybody out there for falling along with us. I kind of gave my scouting report about everything, my assessment. I do want to thank this guy to my right for all he's done. He

means a lot to our organization. M v P. Yeah, because of what he does. I say this and I pray this is the year. I don't want to lose this guy, but he deserves to scout in the National Football League. He's got a great eye for talent. He's a very calm individual. He's great to work with. He gives great opinions. And Dame Brugo, I can't thank you enough for all the things you've done for us to make this program better. It has to be part of

part of the team with you guys. It's been fun. Yeah, you know how many years is this for us now? For we started in fourteen, So yeah, this is our fifth draft. I thought it is our fifth d Yeah, so it's about time for you to go off and do something else. And David Helmet, I want to thank you. Like everybody's talked about, You've grown a lot with this role, as far as you know, making us have to think, making us have to answer questions, and having your own

opinions as well. So I appreciate that. I'm happy. I'll let me come on for the ride, because lord knows, I don't have five hundred scouting reports. We'll get you there one day. Kate Garrison also thank I want to thank him as well. And he's a he's got us on the road, a lot of places always hooked us up. Make sure the draft show was online. We appreciate all his contributions and also though Tokayden and Dave in the TV area. Thank you guys as well. Thank you brought us.

Thank you, thank you Miller Light as well. Okay, guys, well listen, that's the draft show for the twenty eighteen NFL Draft. We'll be back. We're gonna come back for open weeks, Halloween, Halloween weekend. Yeah this guy, Yeah exactly, We'll go. So make sure you're keep studying the tape, keep investigating. We'll keep educating if you guys, take care and again, thanks for everything you did for us. See

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