Draft Show: Early Word

You can't get rid of me. Brian brought us here for the Draft show with my scouting buddy, Jeff Kavanaugh, David Hellman, and Kyle Yeomans are at the Senior Bowl. Jeffrey, you planned out opening the show like that, didn't you. Yeah, the gum on the shoes. I might the gum on your shoe. You can't get rid of me. You try to peel me off, it gets worse, you said, at home all morning and you're like on the shoe. Ah. Man, good to have you in studio today. Man, appreciate you.

We're here. We are here, and it's fun to be back as always. It's fun to be at the start. It's fun to be able to be in the studios again where we've hosted drafts here before. The Draft show is such a part of what we do every year, and Jeff and I we have our own show Monday through Friday, two to seven on one oh five three The Fan the g Bag Nation, and this is our opportunity to talk draft and we really really do appreciate that. We appreciate Derek Eagleton and the Jones family for allowing

us to do this. Jeff, you know this show is sponsored by somebody though, Sponsorpy our good friends at Miller Light. That's the Miller Light. That's your one of your favorite beers. I know that's the only beer of the Dallas Cowboys. That's right, Jeff, So it is Miller time. Okay. As we start to get into this a little bit more, I've noticed following you on Twitter and by the way, what is it, jac one oh five three? Follow that man right there? You're starting to look at some offensive lineman,

aren't you. Yeah. I don't appreciate you telling people that though, because you know I hate offensive lineman. Do you hate offensive lineman more than quarterbacks? No? I hate quarterbacks the most, but offensive linemen actually have come around on it. But for so long this team didn't need them, so I would just wait till kind of the end. Yep. And then this year I'm kind of thinking, hey, you know, if I could upgrade at center or if you know, I've got a whole at left guard at the moment.

So I'm actually watching offensive lineman and I'm ashamed of it. Yeah. And as you folks know, again, we're a full service show. You we do have a lot of Dallas Cowboys ties. But we'll talk about offensive lineman, We'll talk about linebackers, we'll talk about corners. We you know, if you're a fan of another team. If you're a fan of the

Cincinnati Bengals, congratulations. You're a fan of Los Angeles Rams, congratulations here team your Rams guy doesn't want a draft, so you probably aren't gonna be watching our show too much, correct, But you do a good job with your homegrown guys. As far as for the Dallas Cowboys, are you watching offensive lineman because you feel like that's the direction that

this team needs to address first? Or do you kind of see at twenty four this thing being wide open where it can be the best available player, which they've done the last couple of years. Oh, I think it'll be wide open. But I think that there is a chance that one of these offensive lineman is the best player available, which is the ideal part. Now, Like on

my YouTube page, I've already begun mock drafts. Yeah so, um, but if you want YouTube dot com slash, Jeff con if you go, if you want way too many mock drafts to where you'll eventually hate mock drafts, that's where

you want to be. But I do I think, Um, Like this morning, I did a video where I think I gave eleven names and it's spanned across a lot of different positions where I'm like, look, there are going to be You're gonna let the twenty three picks in front of you decide which one of these guys you're going to take. But I could probably give you the

Cowboys pick. I just need eleven names. Yeah No, And you know what more, I'm diving into this draft, Jeff, and man, I am further along than I've been in ages. You know, I just I you know, when you get down, when you're drafting towards the bottom of the board, you have to have an aggressive approach on this. And I

know you've taken aggressive approach. I'm coming after you. Now I know exactly that, But I really do feel like if you're one of those teams picking down there at say twenty one, twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, I think there's gonna be some good players that fall to you. I really really do. I don't think this is one of those things where you're going to look up and you're gonna go, oh damn, they know, I don't want that guy. You know, You're gonna let the teams in

front of you do what they do. And when you get to twenty four, one or two of the names that we talk about wanting at twenty four is going to be staring in the face. That's what's gonna happen. Yeah, Like I said, I think you have to keep been open mind about this thing. And I'm I'm totally on board of what they've been doing here the last couple of years with it's saying, you know, whether it's a Ceedee Lamb or you know, Michael Parsons, whoever, you know,

they determine who that best. I think they've done a really nice job on that. But you know, and I mentioned the offensive lineman because I saw you tweet last night about Zion Johnson from Boston College. It's my guy. And I was going through the questions for Twitter on the twenty today and I'll just start with this. When that Roe asked, he goes, is Zion Johnson or reach at twenty four? Okay? So to me, the answer is no,

he's not. Okay. It's funny because we don't do the draft three hundred and sixty five days a year, right, So like you could look at where Dane Brugler has him or somebody else or all these different simulators, and I feel like, yes, he'll always be there at twenty four. Yeah, And maybe that means I'm a stupid head. But watching Zion Johnson last night, this is Boston College Senior Bowl. Measurements here are six oz two six He's just under

sixty three three hundred fourteen pounds. His arms are almost thirty four inches long, so he's built exactly like a guard. My theory un scouting players is and if you're out there and you enjoy watching and learning the draft is type your words your way. Don't try to sound like sure what you think you're supposed to sound like. Absolutely, So, Like when I'm watching an offensive lineman. What I want to know is can he pass protect or not? And why can he run block or not? And why yeah?

And does he look lost? Right? Bam? We just handled it. Pass block, run block awareness right down. What you see. Zion Johnson at Boston College was left tackle in twenty twenty. He has a left guard in twenty twenty one. Yeah, he allowed three hurries in three hundred and sixty four pass snaps. And the thing that jumped out at me is he is one of the best sustainers yeah that I've seen. Yea. And by that we mean word it's a run play and I'm coming off the ball and

I'm locking up with this defensive tackle. Yea. And even a lot of really really good offensive lineman can't always sustain because there's a really good player trying to get rid of you, trying to get to the ball. And when Zion Johnson locks on, he's on. He's great at sustaining. He's not overwhelmingly powerful, yeah, but he's got plenty of anchor. He stays connected to the guy he's blocking so well

in the run game. Flexibility, functional, but not stand out as an athlete, just really steady, really good player, very aware pass protector. Zion Johnson Boston College to me is an option at twenty four. Yeah, I totally agree with you on that. We both have talked about Kenyon Green though as from Texas, A and M that would be the ultimate if you were looking for a To me, I don't have Zion Johnson as a first round player.

I put him as a cheater grade. Yeah. I had him more as the second round type of a player of my own only guard right now that I have as Kenyon Green as a first round guy. And you know, and I've looked at h Kennard from Kentucky as well. I've looked at a kid named Sean Ryan from UCLA. I've looked at a kid names uh Salar Salier from Georgia US as another guy. But these are guys that are all below what I've seen from Kenyon Green. Okay, So if you if you, that kind of takes care

of that though. With you know, we feel like that a Green would be the guy would be the best pick at that spot if available. I think Green would Kenyan Green, they and M guard would be a really really good pick if he makes it to twenty four night and I think Zion Johnson would be one of the names where if it's if you couldn't get one of the guys that you were like, yeah, yeah, you would go, oh that's fine, Yeah, yeah, I'll take that left guard. Yeah and go you were you were last

night too. You were watching some wide receivers and you mentioned one, and again, we're trying to keep a broad thing here because we don't know what's going to happen with the Cowboys and their wide receiver room and stuff like that. You watched Chris o Lovey last night and I was always super superhesed a wide receiver from Ohio State. I mean, you know there's two receivers there you have to catch from Ohio State. Tell me about Chris' lobby, because I have him as the last guy for me

in that in that first round. As far as the wide receivers go, I don't think I'll great a love as a first rounder. I think him as a two. Okay, I like him a lot because I love route runners, right, and I think Chris Olove is probably one of the best route runners in the country. Right. He was able to be incredibly successful as a deep threat at Ohio State. But I don't know that he's a burner, right, He's not physically intimidating with the ball after the catch. He's

just a very smooth, polished, good receiver. So like, what is that in the NFL? Probably somebody's good number two receiver, right. I see a guy who knows how to set up defensive backs. He gets to their blind spot. He's really good at changing tempos and his routes to throw you off. Useful in the screen game, yeah, because he can kind of stop and go, but he's not going to run through tackles. Smooth, smooth, smooth. Yea great feet and ball tracking. Yeah,

I totally like I said, I think that you. I think you've got the player, Nail. I think there's some other things that I kind of like a little bit better. I like how he plays in those small areas and stuff like that. You know, here's a guy attention to detail. He's not just getting one foot down, he's getting two feet down. You watched by Okay, we mentioned here that

you and I are hosting here in studio. Let's go to Mobile, Alabama, and again I wanted to get your thoughts and those two players that you looked at and I really like what you say. Let's go to the mobile and our guy, David Hellman from Dallas Cowboys dot COM's on the scene. David, Good morning, sir, Good morning, buddy. Good to hear your voice hosting the Draft show like the old day. Well, I appreciate that. Okay, set the scene for us from being on the ground immobile right now.

What do you expect to happen today in some of your adventures, Brian, tell me, tell me if this sounds familiar. I know you missed this. I missed this a lot, Dave, I do it. It's the first day of senior bowld practices, which obviously means we get our first look at these guys, but from my standpoint, it's also bird dog day. Yeah. I actually I had the good fortune I've never had to work less hard to run into Will McClay in

my life. He was like in the first place I went last night, and I was kind of talking to him, getting getting the lay of the land about where the cowboys are going to be, what they're going to be doing. It's it's I mean, it's always exciting, but it's even more exciting because this is the first like non COVID year at the new facility with all of the new bells and whistles that they have at South Alabama. The

Senior Bowls not at Latin People's Stadium anymore. So I think, you know, even people that have done this for like decades kind of don't know what to expect with this new format. So as soon as I get off the phone with y'all, I'm going to head out there and try to find Will and Stephen, maybe see if they'll talk to me about draft stuff and Cowboys stuff, and

hopefully find some time to watch some of these players. Dave, the Cowboys have a great history of drafting Senior Bowl players and so this, to me, is one of those opportunities. Is it because they're seeing these guys live and with NFL coaching? Do you think there's a reason why they have this history with the Senior Bowl. I've actually we've we've talked to Will about that before. If you've listened to the show for a while, Yeah, I think it's the chance to see these guys go against the best.

I mean, these are the best senior players. A lot of these guys are going to get drafted and without fail. We talked about this last week. The Senior Bowl has done such a good job of upping the talent level, like there's going to be some NFL studs at these practices, and particularly obviously, like you're very small schools, but even Tony Pollard comes to mind. Bill talked about him in twenty nineteen. Will was enamored with Tony Pollard, and so

obviously Memphis is a good program. But you come here to Mobile and you're going against guys from the best of the best, the Alabamas of the world, and showing what you can do. I think Will told us he told us the story about how Tony got walloped. I don't remember. I think it was a run play, I guess, and he came back and nailed the guy that hit him on the next play with the block, and like

stuff like that stands out to evaluators. So yeah, they're going to be watching, and I think stuff like that matters when you have a chance to stack up and actually do football things against other good football players. I mean, the results speak for themselves. They've drafted eleven of these guys in the last four years, I think, I mean they leaned toward those guys in tiebreaker situations and Dave.

You know that Brian's gonna judge you if you're out there just doing your job and trying to get stuff from Steven and will he wants you scouting the players? Is there position groups that you are most tempted to check out? My favorite it's and I really did enjoy it because I Brian's enthusiasm for the draft is contagious. But like every year, I'm out here trying to keep an eye on Stephen, trying to figure out of Jerry's here. You know, there's other reporters that cover the Cowboys that

are trying to get those guys. So you've always got to be mindful. And Brian and Dane are just sitting next to each other just like could not care less about that. They're like, oh, look at the hip on this corner out of Ohio's great, and I'm just like, yeah, guys, that's awesome. And as soon as Steven's done talking to the media, I'll be right there with you. But I will get yelled at if I don't pay attention to this.

So That's what I'm in for today. But yeah, like I said, especially, I would like to think so the first practice starts at eleven thirty and the second one, I think starts at two thirty something like that. I would like to think I'll be free to watch the second practice. Um, I mean, it's always easy to it's always easy to watch wide receivers in situations like this,

it's just very easy to stand out. But I'm gonna try my best to have my have my eyes on the lineman just because both both lines feel like areas that the Cowboys would want to focus on, and it seems like there's some good talent here, So I'm gonna try to have an eye ou No, And you're absolutely right, Dave. And again yeah Daney, and I only looked down at you just a little bit, not all the time. We just just a little bit. But uh yeah, you mentioned

that the two sets the line. It's the offensive line with guys, you know, with Penny and uh you know, and we mentioned Zion Johnson and Kennard and guys like that from the offensive side. But then you look at the defensive side with Jamay Johnson from Florida State, Camp Thomas from South San Diego State, Locan Hall from Houston, h Mathis from Alabama. It seems like that these one on one drills. If you're gonna focus on something like some of this one on one, nine on seven, that's

how you picked up. You know, you picked up with Zach Martin and guys like that in those and those one on one drills and stuff. Did you I heard y'all talking about Zion when I was waiting for y'all to patch me in. Did y'all see the measurements yesterday? Did y'all see Trevor Pennings measurements? I've seen Trevor Penning live, so I'd imagine it was tall, somewhat heavy and long arms. My man has a eighty four inch wingspan. Who's got

thirty four in six eight arms? Yeah? Well yeah, And but I'll tell you what, And there's actually some this will be some good tape for him because he's men among boys at Northern Iowa. Now when he plays against Iowa State, there's a little bit a step up in weight class for him. But I'm interested in what you think about him as as a tackle a prospect as well. And that's I mean, it's funny. Could you can sit here as a as a cowboy fan and be like, why are we talking about a guy from Northern Iowa.

Like Cowboys aren't They're not going to draft that guy, which I would be tempted to agree with you. But again, the Senior Bowl could be a great equalizer here. I mean, this is the type of guy that stands to make a lot of money if he can come out here and you know, shove around some some FBS Power five type of guys. So that's what makes this stuff really fun.

I definitely I want to have a close eye on him, um, just to again this is I've already seen him mocked as a guy in the Cowboys range of the first round, and a good week here could totally solidify that. Dave, what do you make about the whole thing with picket in the hands and all that stuff? Is that are we just making too much about something about nothing? Really? This old thing? So if I so he's double jointed and that affects the measurement, Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah?

And the thumbs all jump jammed out there forward and he puts it closer to the pinky, And how you've got a hand that's going to measure at three and a quarter inches. Yeah, he's gonna I mean, look, every we do this every year, Like every year we freak out about something that seems so silly. But all I'm saying is like, isn't it a thing that Jared Goff kind of struggles when it's went like wet and rainy and snowy, Like that is a thing, right, I don't

know David Joe Burrow has tiny hands, so about that. Yeah, I mean Jeff Jeff defended Golf at the at the Combine. If you remember Dave, he stooped at the podium, and every time Golf said something, He's like, yeah, tell him, tell him, tell him there. Man. He didn't know how many hype man hair receptions he had and I told him, help him. Hype man over hype man over here at the Combine. I think it was. I think it was former Chief's offensive tackle Mitchell Schwartz is a really good

Twitter follow if you don't follow him. He was he I think he said it perfectly yesterday. He was like, yeah, that stuff matters, but just go watch his tape and see how it affects his play. Like the measurement doesn't matter. Just watch him play. Ye, see if it affects him. And yeah, I've leaned towards that I mean, yeah, Joe Burrow does not have big hands and it doesn't seem to affect him. But and I know we bring this

up a lot, but i'll'll keep doing it. Brian, we talked about this the other day, Like, the most amazing thing we've ever seen is that Aaron Rodgers didn't drop that ball when Jeffie sacked him in the playoffs. Fire, That is amazing. You're right about that minimum not holding onto that ball with small hand, dude, I mean not at all, not at all saying it doesn't completely not matter, right, just like everything during draft season, it kind of David,

Thank you so much for your time, man. Good hunting out there. Keep an eye on Jerry Stephen and net crew, but then make sure you're watching like Rutger and McBride the tight ends too, that they're in the Senior Bowl as well. All right, do that for me. I'm I'm excited, fellas. Next time we talk, I'm gonna have so many notes on so many guys. Well, appreciate that again, good David, and take care of yourself, right, thank guys. All right,

that's David Hellman of Dallas Cowboys dot Com. We'll go to our first break and we'll come back with some Twitter on the twenty next. At Smoothie King, we are blending goodness to fuel your grayness. Every blind is crafted to help you achieve your health and fitness goals. Sweetie King uses only whole fruits and organic veggies. You'll never find sugary syrups or artificial flavors, colors or preservatives, and unlike some other smoothie places, there are zero grams of

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and Kyle Yeomans are at the Senior bowlmobile ALBAM. In the second half of the show, we will give Kyle Yeomans a call and see what's on his mind. But Jeff, before we get going, here for Twitter on the twenty, Liberty Tax is the proud partner of the Dallas Cowboys. Schedule an appointment today at Liberty tax dot com backslash Cowboys getting to be tax season here pretty quick, so make sure Liberty Tax will get your business there. Okay, Beemer,

Let's go to some Twitter on the twenty. Twitter on the twenty, Hey, hey, this is where we take your questions about out the draft for the panel. Jeffrey and I'll do our very best to handle those questions. They say, good ones today, We've got a couple of them. Jeff got a couple of them. Dan Rodgers wants to know Dean at twenty four. He would love but is there a second round linebacker? And he mentioned Clark from LSU. Have you looked at any linebackers or anything like I

have seen Devin Lloyd, Nakobe Dean, and Channing Tindall. So no, I cannot help you with second round linebackers yet, and unlike some people in our industry, yeah, I will not lie to your face and say I've watched seven thousand guys. I'm up to about thirty and I'm getting three or four done a night. Okay, so I can't help you. Yeah, Okay, Well I'll talk about Clark then from LSU. And you know, to me because he mentioned Clark, and this is a guy that's a physical player, I think he'd actually be

a great fit. He's six three, he's two hundred and forty five pounds. This is a sideline to side line player if you're into that stuff. The Cowboys seem like they're wanting to draft some bigger linebackers. So Clark, Damon Clark from LSU would be a guy that I would look at. I don't see him used much in pass coverage, but what he is like, he is a downhill player.

There's a lot of violence to his game. I have this guy in the second round as a because I like the way and I'm not just saying because an LSU guy. But you don't see this guy get caught up in trash and bodies and a large guy. He moves so well, so easily. He was a leader on the defense that really needed one. LSU didn't have a lot of things that they really can hang their hat on. But this, this guy, I could see all this physicality

that he plays with carrying over to the NFL. I'll also throw you another name of a guy, Chad Mama ying Wyoming. Yeah, and and with Chad, this is another one of those guys. He's sick two, he's two hundred and thirty six pounds. I have him more of a third round guy, but this is a relentless guy. Just when you think this guy might be out of the play, he finds a way to make a play. He has

a nose for the ball. He's not gonna wow you with this athletic ability, and there's but there's some sneakiness to his game as an outstanding wrap up tackler, super productive for the Wyoming Cowboys, disruptive as a blitzer. I know you always talk about guys Jeff that can really really rush cover. He can, and that's what I'm saying. He could read his keys really well and gets the ball really quickly. So kind of like a couple of

guys to keep an eye on there if Dean. In fact, we all agree that Dean would be Uh, what did you you said you watched Lloyd from Utah? What did you do? What did you do? You you like? I prefer Dean. Prefer Dean. Okay, I like them both. I think they're both going to be picked in the first round and I both deserving of that. Yeah. I just I think that Nikobe Dean is a super charge ed Nick Bolton. Yeah, and we loved Nick Bolton last year, right, and it makes a bunch of plays for Kansas City.

So it's a guy who's not real big, yeah, but he's super smart. He process as fast as hell, he puts teammates in the right spot. And then, in Dean's case, he's also an incredible athlete who blitz is really well. I love Nikobe Dean. I like Devin Lloyd. Yeah, he's the bigger guy. He also had a bunch of backfield production. He could cover tight ends for you. I think Devin Lloyd is probably the better cover linebacker and Dean is probably the better attacking linebacker. Yeah, okay, I you know what.

I I love them both, and I think you've got I think you've got Lloyd, right, I think if you were going for the bigger guy man, I was watching again, I was watching. I was watching the offensive tackle at Georgia last night, and uh no, I was watching who was it? It was? I was watching somebody, but it was George. I was watching, watching Brian. I was trying to think of who I was a sawyer, Yeah, I was, but I was watching. Something came up on George's defense.

Dean like made every single tackle. I mean, it just it was one of those things where I kept seeing I don't know, I was watching something and that was like, Yeah, my favorite thing about na Kobe Dean is he makes every single tackle. Yeah, and usually he has to run around a teammate to do it because he reacts so much quicker and then just in his way, so he has to go around another I think I was watching

somebody at Michigan and it it just showed up. But okay, Johnny Condrad, I think I said that right, Johnny khan Rand He asked with Dan Quinn, stay in, is Dan going to influence a defensive pick in the first round or you think this thing is going to go BPA at either position? The wild card there is that dan Quinn's not the only one with a big voice, right right. All the coaches in this organization tend to have a

big voice. So like, I don't think dan Quinn is going to be in the room strong arm in it and say no, my guy. But will dan Quinn have an influence on what they think of players and what they're looking for in their players. Absolutely so. I think if you're thinking about defensive backs with dan Quinn here, think about length, think about probably not small guys, probably

long arms. When you're thinking about linebackers and dan Quinn's here, think about flying, think about rallying, think about forty times. I think dan Quinn wants guys who are long in the secondary and fast underneath. So he'll have influence in that way if you're trying to figure out who the Cowboys may be targeting length in the secondary, speed underneath. Is there a side of you that with dan that and you talk about with the with the way you just said things, and we just had a tweet ask

us about Jordan Davis, the tackle. I know we mentioned him. Are you are you interested in taking a two down player at twenty four or? I mean, because to me and and we have another question about Somebody asked me about Trade Davis on Twitter. Asked me about Matthis from Alabama, and to me, Matthis is more of a guy that would play I think every down as opposed to just Davis being a two down player. Do you think he

would be? Yeah, this is going to be an interesting defensive tackle class because I think so many teams and if I had a team, I would prioritize the ever living stuff out of finding interior guys who can pressure the quarterback. And in this class, I don't really have one that I love in the first round, like de Marvin Leeale at Texas A and m has the physical traits to do it, but I haven't seen him consistently do it. Jordan Davis is three hundred and sixty pounds

and he is what he is. He's a mountain. He's not gonna move. I think there is a lot of value and being able to stop the run with fewer numbers and drop a bunch of dudes into coverage. We're seeing that a lot in the NFL. Yeah, and Jordan Davis could be a big part of that for a team if he has picked in the first round. Understand it, but I think I would prioritize pass rush so much that if you don't add to my team in either pass rush or coverage, it would be hard for me

to get excited about the first round pick. So let's say the Cowboys picked Jordan Davis. My official stance would be probably would have gone a different direction there. Now, once we get that out of the way, are you excited that Jordan Davis is on your team? Absolutely? Yeah, but I would probably rather pick somebody who affects passing down. Yeah. I totally agree with you. And this is why you know, Phildarian think math is from Alabama. Have you a chance

to see him at all? Or I watched him before the title game, so I have a very little idea. Yeah, okay, Well to me, okay, here's a guy that's six hundred sixty four three twenty and really super stout at the point of attack, and much like Davis, you know, hard guy to move and stuff like that. But I see that initial quick move, that surge. It's him into the blocker quickly you could disengage. He's powerful. I just see

a better pass rusher. And maybe that's where if you're saying, oh, well, Davis is a he's gonna push the pocket and he's gonna be disrupted that way. Great. I kind of see matthis as a guy that's big, can play the run, can push the pocket, but also can disengage and get get to another spot. Is what. So if you were if you were telling me that I could have my choice between one or the other, I think I would take Matthis over Davis in this case, and I don't.

I would just wait till the second round and see what's there. Yeah, I agree with because I'm throwing the name Davante Wyatt, Jordan Davis's teammate. Yeah, he's what three ten and twelve pounds, incredible get off just not the down end down out, you know, dominating the point and getting a ton of pressures, but he shows you some of the things that you want from a pass rusher. Yeah. I just kind of feel like that to me, the second round is more so for that position than maybe

the first round. I would trade number twenty four and my second round pick if you promised me that a year from now I can have Georgia's sophomore defensive tackle Jawen Carter. You're learning of eight years of doing this number eighty eight at Georgia. It's gonna be a top ten pick next year. He is a monster at detail.

You've learned something that I learned way way back in nineteen ninety two when I first started watching, like Florida State in Miami play and you're supposed to be watching a defensive end from Florida State, and then all of a sudden, you're watching a defensive tackle that's a freshman or a sophomore. Yeah, and you're like, you made all the plays. I used to go, Hey, I go, hey, U Dorsey, who's that guy? Oh, don't worry about him. He's only a sophomore. Yeah, I'm like, worry about him

next year. Oh yeah, So that was always the way it was. Okay, Cowboy Chuck, He asked, is it too early to really to address the left tackle spot for the Cowboys? I feel like people have been asking this question for at least the last two years. It's so hard because are you getting to the point where it would make sense too? Yeah, But if the guy that you pick to do it can't start for you at say left guard, then if Tyrn's here unhealthy, your first

round pick is gonna watch football. Yeah, And not just this year. He would watch football forever and until Tyrant has hurt or gone. So, like, I understand that you want to solidify that and a lot of people want to know what's next. And you know, Tyran's generally speaking gonna miss some games. But if you're invested in a first round pick, you better be able to play guard because otherwise, if Tyran plays seventeen, you're going to have

your first round pick watch seventeen games. Yeah, I man, I think last year was my year of trying to get a guy that could play guard and then if I had to move him to tackle, but I knew I would potentially have like a a Pro Bowl type guard until my tackle was ready. Kenyon Green maybe he played left tackle, right tackle, left guard, right guard. I didn't watch a left tackle game of his, but I'm watched him play guard, and I watched him play right tackle,

and the dude can play. Do you feel like that Kenyan Green is a guy that he's a guard, he's a card, he's a guard, he has a guard. I can play with him a tackle and get by. He's a guards, an NFL guard. That's what I'm saying, though, Is it more important to have the guard as it is to have the tackle right today, yes, today, because

you want to win the Super Bowl next year. That's your goal, right right right, And for every Cowboy fans like they're not gonna win or whatever, your goal is to go in and left guard is where currently you have nothing unless you're moving somebody right now, there's nothing there McGovern. That's kind of what's there. You need a left guard, left tackle. You would like a guy to make you feel better for in case a guy misses games. Left guard, you need a guy. Yeah, would you rather

how about this one? Would you rather have the center Linda Bomb or have a guy that could play guard end tackle? I like Tyler linder Bomb way too much. So my answer is Linderbomb. I think he's Jason Kelsey. Okay, he's gonna play in a bunch of Pro Bowls. I think he's gonna be an All Pro U. We've talked about this. Yeah, I think Tyler Linderbaum is a stud, stud stud. Is he better than any tackle that you could pick or any uh? Is that so valuable? Yeah?

That I think right. If you had to say what order would you pick offensive linemen in this draft, I'd probably go Evan Neil I, Linder bamb and then either Charles Cross yeah, Penning, Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of I think I think he got I mean, I I like Cross the best out of that. And then you know, Quan Wu. I think that's the one that I think that's the one. He might be the first one taken. When it's all moves humans like you're not supposed to

be able to do, right, that is the most powerful dude. Ye, you're absolutely right. You're just still now, You're absolutely right. But we know the cowboys, I kind of feel going to the top. Yeah, exactly. I mean, if you have to dress the offensive line, I think there's some options there. Okay, Matt Corner wants to know. And I don't think you've looked at any tight ends, right yo, sir, I do not believe him. Okay, Matt Corner, he asked me. Then I picked the question. He has sawn Ohio State one

catch a ball. When I was watching the receivers last night, Jeremy Rucker is the guy's name is the tight end and I kind of feel like though that he was asking if Rucker was a third or second or third round guy. I kind of have him more in them in that third round range. But do you think that there's a group of tight I do? I do, I do. And I'm going to give you a guy that you

need to keep an eye on. There's a kid named Kadeton out of Washington, and he was banged up a little bit this season and he got the COVID and he missed a couple of games that way. But when you watch him play, this is a super productive weapon. And then this kid can actually block, and so I'm kind of interested tight end. No, No, this kid can

actually block. But this guy's a weapon. And they line him up all over the place and he'll run routes from all these spots and he'll stick his nose in there. Like I talked about, he's a fit position blocker. He gets movement with his feet and the way he does it, I kind of felt like he was better in line than on the wing. When he was on the move. I didn't think he was as good a blocker when they asked him to do the come inside, do a

lot of stuff. When he had to go face up and hit somebody in the you know, block him head up, he was. He was good. He's tough after catch, he catches the ball in his hands. I didn't see the one time where he missed the ball. I'm watching Michigan, watching UCLA. He's not missing the ball. This guy. I mean, he's flexible in the way he plays. So keep an eye on if this team. Kay dot and I'll talk about Jeremy Rucker, the gentleman. You saw it from Ohio State.

I think by the way that I think that Jalen Widemeyer, the Texas A and M tight end, is the first tight end in the draft, and then you've got all these other guys underneath. But the thing with Rucker that I saw is another confident hands catcher. But he's not really fleet of foot, you know. I kind of thought that, you know, he gets old. You ever write the word lumbering. I never wrote that down. I wrote would not call him fleet of foot, but I did say he managed

to get open. I thought he was a good finisher when the ball was near him, efficient run after catch, but you know, nothing for nothing that would make me feel like It's kind of like the guys you're watching now for the Cowboys. You know, when you watch them play, it's like, oh, they catch the ball, they get up the field, but not the most fleet of foot, not

the most fleet of foot at all. So but I think, to be honest with you, Jeff, I think there's I think there's four or five tight ends that I've seen already that if you're a Dallas Cowboy fan and you're interested, you're saying, oh, we're gonna Tray McBride's. Another guy mentioned him to Hellman, that's a Colorado State guy. Those guys can just come in and compete with Jarwin and McEwen and go. They might be even, they might even beat like if you're talking like third and fourth round guys

with what you did with Schultz. Guys are the same thing to me, and maybe a little bit Schultz while to get going though you know it, Schultz wasn't too happy with me because I reminded people that it took him time to get going. Yeah you know, I mean it took him what three years to be a productive NFL tight end. So you're you're you're do you think the Cowboys just don't even need to Okay, let me ask you this. I hate tight ends, Brian. I would

just play another receiver. But right now, like you have Jarwin under contract, and I think Jarwin and Schultz and whoever else, like Spider Man meme, they're just time you you're me. Yeah, if if you just just keep Jarwin unless you need to save money and lose him too, but just Jarwin's your tight end. Bringing another guy if they like mckewan, great, and and see what happens if you want to use a mid round okay, t end Oh yeah, I had another question then, and I didn't

pull it because it was a quarterback question. Fourth round tight end, fourth round quarterback, because you're tight end, because I think, and you know, this team kind of bucks this trend. And Tom Brady just retired as a sixth round pick. But for the most part, I need to go back and get those notes. By the way, for the most part, if you're drafting a fourth round quarterback, you're lighting a pick on fire. They're you know, the potential payoff, I guess to teams is kind of worth it.

But what dak undrafted Romo Tom Brady in the sixth Outside of that, they know or to pick quarterbacks. Quarterbacks get picked in the first round or back in the day if they were small or something, maybe in the second I think fourth round you might find an NFL starter at tight end, the odds of finding a starting quarterback or I guess what would your goal be to see if you can find a back up. That's what I'm saying, what happens. That's so I was just kind

of thinking, yeah, I don't hate that. I guess it's such a big lottery ticket if you know, if you don't if you don't like tight ends. I'm just saying, if you were a general manager of a team and you're not a big fan of take in a third or fourth round tight end, I'm trying to gauge, would you take a quarterback at that spot instead of taking a tight end that you think it's like, ah, I

might hit on this tight end. Yeah, I wouldn't hate it, because I mean, even you know, fourth round, your odds of hitting on anything or probably below fifty percent quarterback, it's gonna be way lower, but the potential payoff is way higher. So we're just doing gambling, playing gambling odds. When you look at your board right now, of the players you've you've looked at so far, let me get it. And I know you really like the center. I know

you like green I know you have some guys. Is there somebody that we're we haven't been talking about that You're like, listen, man, this guy might not be a first round guy, but I would hit him in the second if if you could get it. That kind of guy. Yeah, one of those guys like your favorite player that's not a first round player, or if you just looked at all first round players. No, I've looked at guys that aren't first round players, but then the ones who aren't

first round players kind of jump out. I'll tell you, I don't think you could get him with the Cowboys second round pick. Hell, maybe he does sneak into the first round. I really like Jiquon Brisker, the Penn State safety. Yeah, and it depends what happens at safety, right, Yeah, you think about like I thought Taylor Rapp was a good prospect. I thought one Thornhill was a good prospect, and they go like in the fifties and sixties, If that happened

to Jaquon Brisker at Penn State, I'm in. I just think he's such a steady, good player that's versatile, physical, can cover all those different things. I like him. Daxton Hill, the Michigan safety is probably going earlier than that. So would you take him in twenty four? You could one of my last resorts. Yeah, yeah, is he if you get wiped out guy? Yeah, he and I would probably take Zion Johnson. Yes, I wiped out guy ahead of Daxton Hill. Yeah, but I think those are the sort

of Michigan safety, right Daxton Hill, Yeah, Michigan safety. And he's interesting because, first of all, he can fly. And if the team runs three wide receivers are more he plays the nickel. If they run two, he plays safety. So you get versatility you gotta do. They can fly, that's not afraid to be physical, that can cover. Daxton Hill is a good player. When I first saw Daxton Hill, I thought he was Dallas's pick at twenty four. Yeah, when I first watched him, and that's when, I mean,

he was really early in my evaluation. But I think you got him. Name. Is there anybody else that you're kind of you kind of really like that maybe that you could get because you did a good job with the Deebo Samuels and getting guys early on radars, I'm gonna end up loving a bunch of wide receivers. I'm sure, and I bet second and third round is a place where the Cowboys will be interested. So I'll find them right now. I've just watched Olave and Garrett Wilson Ohio State.

I've watched Jamison Williams and John Metchi at Alabama. What about MITCHI Where where does he fit? So I would be getting ready for the title game? Yeah, and so I watched a little bit of him. But I like John Metchi. I think the guys who have a nice ability to sort of chop their feet, make good breaks, run nice routes. He's got some moves after the catch. It's a tough runner. Uh, we'll see. I think John

Metchi's probably a second or third rounder. And as I get through these wide receivers, I'll put them in order and we're gonna find one. We'll have a pizza party guy. Yeah, there'll be a pizza party wide receiver. Do you see the depth at wide receiver that you've seen in the past or you just kind of like, I don't know about all. I don't know yet. Guys, right, Yeah, the

top guys are injured. You got and like I've watched four guys, three of them are probably gonna be top fifty picks right, plus the Arkansas guys gonna be a top fifty pick. So like it seems like I'm not blown away by the top of the draft. Like Jameson Williams is a good player, Garrett Wilson is a good player. I don't know that either one is ever going to be an NFL number one. I know they're gonna help. I know they're gonna help a football team. But I'm not blown away at the top. But I feel like

there might be a whole bunch of really good receivers. Yeah, you know what, I'm gonna tell you a guy that I'm kind of falling in love with. And he happens to be a defensive end. And you know this is you know when you start to George Karloftis I love Carloft? Oh? Is that him? I know, I think it's probably too earlier. Keep an eye on this. Germaine Johnson at a Florida State. I watched him last night. What do you think. I think that he's got a really good defensive end body,

like what two sixty six four or whatever? Yeah, right now? And he um he's so hand dependent, but he's good at it. Yeah, like whether it's run game or pass Yeah. I don't see a bunch of like snatch offensive linemen to throw him right, I see a lot of yeah, fight right, beat him right, go. Yeah. And that's his outside pass rush. That's his to get free in the run game. It's kind of Peter Powder Beach hands go

you got him. I'm glad you watched him. I really am, because I think you described it perfect with the way that the hands and stuff like that. But you mentioned karloftis if he's there at twenty fools pinball just pop, Yeah, that's per due. I mean these defensive ends, I think there's some really some good ones. I like what I like what I've seen with with these defensive ends so far. Okay, we will take our final break and then we will get Kyle Yeoman's from Dallas Cowboys on dot com on

the show as well. He's at the Senior Bowl. We'll get his thoughts. We'll do that. Next football season is almost over, and that means tax season is here. With it comes taxiety. Filing taxes can be stressful if you choose the wrong partner. Don't let taxiety take over this tax season. Liberty tax will help you get your largest possible refund or your money back. With more than twelve thousand tax professionals nationwide, help is always around the corner.

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Choose VA for the benefits you've earned. Visit Choose dot Va dot gov to learn more. That's Choose dot Va dot gov. Is that Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show? All right, welcome back to the Draft Show. Brian brought us here along with Jeff and all um. Jeff, did you know for our next crawfish spoil that we're gonna have that we can go get rowdy. Can we get rowdy? Not? Yeah, we can get not us being rowdy, go pick him up. That we could get rowdy, but you can invite rowdy.

You can bite rowdy to your next event for birthday parties, corporate events, to special deliveries and more. Rowdy brings games, entertainment, photo opportunities for all occasions. Visit Dallas Cowboys dot com slash Rowdy to book your appearance today with Rowdy. If you do that, let me know I might come over just to see what Rowdy's doing at your house whatever

you bring him to. Over the years, I've known the book Rowdy to like, go with me to a theme park, you know, get on the roller coaster with him, sing Rowdy, Yeah, hang out with her. I'll tell you what. It's funny. I've known over the years the guys have played Rowdy and they're all like, really fun guys. Yeah, I knew one of them, kind of it, kind of crazy. They they got a little crazy side to them. Sometimes Rowdy goes hard. He does go hard, all right. Speaking of

going hard, let's go to Mobile, Alabama. Call Omens joins the program. Kyle, Welcome to the Draft Show again. How are things in Mobile for you? You know it's great, but it's just not the same without you guys here. I wish you guys were a part of this, just as as I know you guys would love to be out here as well. Well. You know the thing about an in studio guy, Jeff. Jeff doesn't. Jeff doesn't like the conditions sometimes because Jeff will under dress for you know,

like the event. So I think when I went to the Senior Bowl, I slept on Machoda's floor. So you know, I'm good with I'm good with being in studio and going home. You know that's fine. Well, here's here's the thing that you would love right now is and you guys know as well as anybody, braving the elements is usually a part of the Senior Bowl. We just arrived to the stadium. There's barely any wind, it's partly cloudy,

and it's sixty five degrees. So oh yeah, oh no, you'll you'll have some good days there at the Senior Bowl. Good days, okay, as long as the rain stays off a little bit. Yeah, yeah, no, you're right about that. The rains day way rain for sure, all right, Kyle. We talked to Hellman earlier. He had a kind of a plan for like watching Jerry, and I think you

guys are probably going to let him handle that. You're keeping an eye on the players, particular position, Is there a particular player, Is there somebody you're trying to kind of get an idea of like, Okay, I'm gonna get eyes on him and see if size matches what I'm seeing on tape. Yeah, it kind of goes back. And I heard Hellman's call early on, and when you guys were mentioning Trevor Pinning and some of those those measurement deals, that was kind of where I was headed as well.

But I would say offensive defensive line is certainly going to be the focal point because just kind of how we talked about last week in our preview of everything, that's gonna be really the biggest mindset I think for Cowboys fans as they want to improve, they want to get more physical in the trenches, whether it's stopping the run or blocking for the run on offense. So that's

kind of where I'm gonna have my eyes today. And it was also funny you guys were talking about Tony Pollard and kind of going back to his senior bowld days and how he stuck out to Will McClay and such. I just have a gut feeling, and I know Jeff

is gonna love this. I have a gut feeling that there's gonna be a wide receiver prospect that starts to catch eyes of Cowboys fans throughout the week, and that we kind of look at as, oh, maybe this guy out of Memphis, Calvin austin the third or a Khalil Shakier out of Boise State and Alec Pierce out of Cincinnati, like just random guy is gonna come up in these one on ones against these these top level dbs and then it's gonna show out and actually really rise up

draft board. So I know, I kind of pushed away the possibility a couple of weeks ago in our first draft show of drafting wide receiver early on. I don't think it's still a first round conversation, but second and third round wide receivers I think are going to be a hot commodity, and I think a couple of those are here in Mobile. Nobody ever still let me have fun, Like all I want to do. I just want to pick a receiver every year, and this year everybody's contracts

are up, so we might pick two of them. We're going to find a pizza party. Guy, do you have anybody like you mentioned the measurements and all that yesterday, and I saw it going up and down the timeline and people being like, oh, my goodness, look at these physical specimens. Is there anything about that that sort of jumped out at you jumped off the page, you went, Oh,

probably need to see that guy. I mean, other than the Kinney Pickett story, because I was even on the fan last night with the nosebleed seats some of your toe workers and they asked me that same question. And I hadn't even seen the measurements of Kenny Pickett and the double joint at thumb and that kind of stuff at that point, so that one definitely sticks out. Nothing else really was there from me that really kind was on the table as a hell man, that's something that

I need to kind of look at. I'm more of just looking at the football and looking at the tape and guys on the field this week and how they kind of match up against really good competition and scouting them, and then kind of going back and looking at the measurements because I kind of combined the Senior Bowl and then of course the combine later on as those of

official measurements back and forth. So I really am I'm excited to just kind of get out of here finally back boots on the ground again for the first time since twenty twenty and get to see a lot of these prospects go one on one. Kyle, some of the fan base wants you to find him a quarterback down there, So is that what you're up to. I don't know if I'm gonna find the Cowboys a quarterback, but there

are a couple of good ones down here. It's I mean, fact of the matter is, this isn't a strong quarterback class we've been used to. It's really not. I like Kenny Pickett as kind of the top guy in that category, and maybe a guy who could go in the middle of the first round, but you're not going to see a run on quarterbacks until maybe the end of the first end of the second I mentioned this on the radio last night as well. But Malik willis out of

how to liftee. I got to see him live. I called a game of his or you're in the regular season. He doesn't have an offensive line, yeah, or at least he didn't at Liberty. But he has a strong arm, he has mobility, he has decision making. Sometimes sometimes he kind of pressed the issue because of the lack of an offensive line and the lack of time to throw. I want to see him go up behind a five man front of a stud offensive line and really see what he can do in some of these team drills

throughout the week. I think he, along with Sam Howe, the quarterback out of North Carolina, if they have a good week, they could potentially move into that first round conversation with a Picket and maybe a Matt Corral and guys like that, because I think that quarterback spot in that position group is just so wide open right now. Do you think the thing with Willis's I mean the measurements a lot of these quarterbacks were under six one.

That doesn't bother scouts anymore, doesn't. I mean we're in a day and age where you could be five nine, five ten whatever, they'll still get drafted right at high, high level. Yeah, it kind of goes back to that that Kyler Murray conversation that we've always had, and I know we've had for the last couple of years. Is it kind of opened the door and said, hey, there's there's a chance for shorter quarterbacks to still have success. That that old mindset is kind of gone out the window.

But even even then, I still think there is a legitimate worry with that kind of thing because you have to make adjustments. The Cardinals had to make adjustments whenever they drafted Kyler Murray with their offensive front, they had to find a way to make him successful. So there's

a couple of dominoes that need to fall in. Yet Willis is right on that threshold of kind of being a little bit undersized but also still a strong arm and a talented player at the same time, So I don't know if there will be a big mindset with it. I mean, even Sam Howell was just barely over Aylo too, so he was barely over that six foot realm as well.

So you've got a couple of smaller quarterbacks, so it'll be interesting to see how they stand up against some of those those taller guys that have gone in years past, because they just don't have that this year. Kyle, thanks so much for hanging out with us. Good hunting at the Senior Bowl and you guys enjoy it and we'll see when you get back to first Goo. Okay, Yeah, thanks guys, look forward to Senil next week. All right, Kyle Yeoman's he was on our show on the Draft

Show from Immobile. It's so we talk about quarterbacks. Tom Brady retiring today as we broadcast here. Yeah, you want to hear my two favorite tweets on the subject, Go ahead, This is from Fox twenty nine and Philly. Tom Brady, known for dropping a pass in Super Bowl fifty two and failing to shake Nick Fole's hand, has announced his retirement from the NFL. There you go, And there was another one in New York that did the same bit,

only even better. Tom Brady, who lost two Super Bowls to the Giants during his legendary twenty two year NFL career, retires those of those two media outlets that was that's crazy local TV people in Philly and the Giants. What are we to come? Okay, just take shots on the way. Take yourself back if you were in And I know the story about how Tom Brady got drafted, and it was it was he looked like me with his shirt off. Yeah it was, you know, tom Brady, not physically impressed.

I need to go back and get all my draft notes now about him from the days of the Cowboys. But I remember, I remember the story about there was Scott Peeley was the running the draft for the Patriots at the time, and he goes in and he tells Dick raybin the quarterback coach. He said, hey, listen, I'm about to draft you a guy here in the sixth round. You know who do you have an idea of anybody

you want? You know, somebody to work with. And Dick Raybine at the time goes, there's this kid at Michigan named Brady, and he goes, if you want, if you really want to draft me somebody I'd love to work with, please pick Tom Brady, and so so guy Scott Pioli. Scott Pioli then went and said, okay, we'll hand that card in and higo pick one ninety nine. Tom Brady gets picked in the sixth round, but it was Dick Raybine, who's the coach, and he passed away after Brady's second

Super Bowl. I believe he passed away, but he was the guy. And you talk about how fate changes in a draft, or how things change in a draft to where all of a sudden like hey, we're here, we're looking for trades. Who do you want? Yeah, And that just goes to show you too. Just don't throw away a pick, No, you know, don't just throw away a pick while you want more darts. Yeah, just don't you know, take us sometimes sometimes an organization. Absolutely, it does. It does.

Just think about Scott Pioli saying, Okay, we'll take your guy and and and you look at now and you know, twenty some odd years later you see what you have. Yeah, like the commissioner saying one of the greatest career blah blah blah. You know all that stuff. So it just shows you the draft. If you're sitting there in the first round, the sixth round of the seventh round, again, it might matter a lot. Don't throw away picks. It might matter. Don't throw away picks. Jeffrey, thanks for joining

missus today. As I appreciate yep, as we as we say goodbye here, uh Thursday, we'll have to see about our show because again hellman Kyle traveling. If you're following the weather here in Texas, we might get cold. It might get really really cold, it might get really really nasty. We'll see what if, in fact we can get to the facility in order to have a show. But kind

of to get a tractor at that'd be great. I'd love a ride anything to talk about the draft, but figured but kind of keep an eye on, keep an eye on what's going on. We'll make announcements about the show and all that stuff like that. So as we leave here today, I want to thank Chris Beam, our executive producer. I want to thank William Boykin's upstairs for getting us on the air of the way he does too. I especially want to thank Derek Eagleton for allowing us

to do this every week. And then I also want to thank ed K. Hill for his idea about the Draft show so long ago. So for all my colleagues, all my friends, it's Brian Brouns. Thanks for hanging out with us at the Draft Show and we will talk to you again soon. Take care. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.