Draft Show: Dan Quinn's Impact on the Draft

After a national championship win for the Alabama Crimson Tide last night. It's already sparked some debate behind the scenes here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, but now we've taken into the forefront, we'll talk about that national championship game. There's plenty to get to about the Cowboys draft process. Because well there's a new defensive coordinator

in town. We're gonna talk about that as well. Brian brought us Bucky Brooks, David Hellman, I'm Kyle Yeoman's glad you're all with us here on this Tuesday morning Draft show, one of two this week. Of course, Thursday at ten o'clock will be back as well. But well, Dave, I know you're upset because Nick Saban and Alabama ended up winning a national championship, But are you upset about the Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator coaching higher? Because I feel like

that's a little bit more. Is that good enough to make you feel better about the whole situation? I honestly, I'm not even upset, Like at this point, if you don't, I mean you're just numb, you know, being upset at Alabama winning and national titles, like being upset about the sunrising, like what are you gonna do? So, no, that's fine, and yeah, I mean I'm I'm not gonna go as far as to say like I'm elated, but I like to hire. I think it makes a lot of sense

I said yesterday. If you read the tea leaves of what Jerry and Stephen Jones have been saying for about the last month and a half, this checks a lot of their boxes because it's it's very obvious that they've regretted trying to do too much during a pandemic overhauling the defensive scheme. It was just too much for them to handle during you know, a year where you don't have an offseason or a training camp, at least not a true training camp, and so they basically just reversed

course back to what they were familiar with. And maybe that'll rub some people the wrong way, but you know, as at its best, those defenses under Chris Richard and Rod Marinelli were not bad, and so I understand the appeal of trying to get back to what's familiar with for them. Brian, do you agree with the hire of Dan Quinn. I mean, this is a new defensive coordinator that'll change things up from where Mike Nolan was, but I also kind of want to think about what it

would change from a draft standpoint. Yeah, you know, I do like to hire you. What I appreciate about the front offices, and we've grown accustomed to the cowboys dragging their feet when they need to make a decision. And what I was worried about with so many coaches, you know, so many teams needing head coaches, they've got to build staffs.

If you're if you're a coach that's interviewing for a head coaching job, you know, the one thing the question they're going to ask you is, Okay, who do you have on your staff, who do you have lined up? You know, and if these coaches are all saying the same names, and then all of a sudden they start taking these jobs, and then the best coordinators go with other programs. You know, the Cowboys have always been a team that's just been so slow to make adjustments that way.

Talking to folks around the league, I have friends in Atlanta that that that think the world of Dan Quinn. They say the problem really with the Falcons over the years is they've had an offensive a different offensive coordinator every year. So just with Dan, you know, the things with the defense and what he could do, how he can teach. I think that's I think that's really the most important thing right now, is that how you know,

how is he going to teach? You know, that's the thing that you know that this team really really lacked coming out of the box. They didn't do a very good job of handling the pandemic, the zoom call, stuff like that, and it wasn't until the very end. So I'm positive about the way the Cowboys moved. I'm positive about what I'm hearing about Dan Quinn as a teacher, and I think like they're going forward though the Cowboys

made the right decision. You know, Brian, let me thinking back on your comment about doing Quinn like, I love the move because I felt like the scheme that it had previously with Rod Marinelli and Christmashard was the right scheme for the way the Cowboys wanted to play. Like, if you think about your defense has to complement your offense, and if your offense is high powered, then your defense

doesn't necessarily have to be the dominating group. It can be the bend, but don't break and be the one that can sit back and play coverage and just try and keep the explosive plays from happening. Now with dan Quinn, dan Quinn as an outstanding teacher, I think what they do is they've always done a really good job of getting young guys onto the field early. You will hear him talk about a couple of things. You're him talking

about urgent athletes. The kind of guys that they want on their defense will be explosive, instinctive, they'll be twitchy, and he won't necessarily worry as much about some of the size components that some coaches can get hung up on. The other thing that you were here a quality and I don't know how much Mike McCarthy will let them do it. They have a thing in Atlanta that they did called the Plan D program that was their developmental

program for all their young guys. They required all of their young guys to stay after practice for ten minutes every day and their coaches would work with them on an extra individual period over time. If you think about those ten minutes over the course of the season, it wasn't a coincidence that in Atlanta their young guys were able to play weeks ten through sixteen and seventeen because

they had done all that preparation time. So hopefully it will allow some of the younger players to develop and actually get the attention that they need to go forward to be able to be contributors. Yeah, that's a great point, Buck. Yet, I think this is a program that Tom Demtrof his days in England. You know, Bill Belichick had coaches there, the assistance to the assistance they were working with their practice squad guys, the young players getting those extra reps

for him. So that's a it's a heck of a plan. And in this day and age, you're right, you have to go play with your young guys. Well, imagine what that kind of at least extra coaching and that teaching could have done for a guy like treyvon Dix or maybe a Reggie Robinson a year ago. I mean, just that extra attention might have been enough to push them

a little bit more so over the edge. And sure, we're gonna talk about a lot of these draft picks and things like that into the future with Dan Quinn, and he's gonna he's gonna have probably the majority of this draft going toward his defense because of the needs

that are there for the Dallas Cowboys. But how much does the hiring change the overall needs in the scheme of this defense, Bucky, Because I feel like whenever it came to Mike Nolan, he was looking for the taller, bigger corners that were that were athletic, they weren't necessarily twitchy. He wanted physicality on the edge. Where does things like

that kind of switch for Quinn. Well, now, because of the scheme, the cover three scheme, the most important piece of the puzzle, I think in the back end are the safeties. You cannot run a single high defense without two A plus safeties. One of those guys can be down in the box that can be a banger. He needs to be active. He needs to be able to like the more that he can do, the better, meaning if he can blits off the edge and can play and run support, if he can cover tight ends, that's great.

Your centefield safety has to be a dude, and the priority has to be able to get someone who can be the ornament on the top of the Christmas tree, meaning he's a centefield player who can get from numbers to numbers. He has plenty of range, and he's a playmaker. And so I would think that the position that's been annoyed for years in Dallas. They have to invest in a safety, whether that is in the draft, that is

in free agency. The safety has to be a high level player, Dave, that sounds like music to our ears as a part of the Cowboys who haven't necessarily valued the safety spot over the last two decades or decade, I guess at least. But what do you think about where the guys at the current moment on the Cowboys fit and is it's still a huge need to go get a safety that could be an a plus player.

You know, it's funny and that goes back to my point about you know, in a way, maybe this is a little bit of a knee jerk higher that sounds like a mean thing to say. Like I said, I think it's I think it's a good hire. I think

dan Quinn's a good coach. But I don't think you can underestimate the current situation on why you would make this higher, because you know, you look at the Cowboys right now, you look at how they underperformed, You look at their cap situation, which is not it's going to be a mess with what they have to deal with with Dak Prescott. This higher just basically allows them to go back to what they were already doing. Like the foundations of this defense were built around guys that can

play in this scheme. And so now you think, like, Okay, we don't have to worry about Demark Lawrence doing something new. We don't have to worry about the safety's being asked to do something that they don't know how to do. People probably don't want to hear this, but maybe this

even allows you to try to reclaim Jalen Smith. You know, you know dan Quinn, he's been famous for years for having something that they call a LEO role, which is basically like a sam linebacker designated pass rusher hybrid role. Bruce Irvan did it for a long time in Seattle. It's something I could imagine Jalen doing under Dan Quinn.

So when you think about the fact that first of all, the Cowboys don't like to spend big, and second of all, they don't have any money this year to spend big even if they wanted to, it makes sense that they want to switch back to a scheme where they can just plug what they already have in and there's at least a realistic hope for better results. Now having said that, yeah, safety is still obviously a huge need. It's been a huge need on this defense forever. I don't know how

they address it. They're not going to spend big on him one in free agency, I think we all know that. And then there's not a guy that you feel like, as far as I know, there's not a safety that I feel amazing about taking in the top ten of this draft. Maybe in the second round, maybe, but you know, there's a there's not a Jamal Adams in this draft class. So that's going to be interesting to see how they do that. But yeah, I mean, a talent at the

end of the day is everything. Dan Quinn, you know, he got the Falcon's job off the strength of the Legion of Boom and however good he might be as a defensive coordinator, it really helps when you have three Hall of Fame caliber players in your secondary. So it's it's absolutely something they need to look at. I just I don't know how quickly they can do it. Sorry, yeah, and no, no problem, David. I think you made excellent points there, and Bucky you could also address this along

with me too. Is from a scout's perspective, you know, all year long, you've been studying a certain type of player and now you have to flip. But you least you've done this before, so you know, I think that that to me, it's the key he year is going to be how quickly everybody can adjust back. It's like, Okay, some of these maybe these hybrid players that we were looking at might not fit. Oh we're looking for a bunch of just stand up guys. Okay, we don't need

stand up guys anymore. Okay, this is let's go back. So as a scout, you have to flip your mind to maybe some players that you gave grades maybe for somebody else. Now they come back into your mix, and so Will's gonna have to get with dan quickly. They're gonna have to get their defensive line position done. Are they going to make other changes at linebacker? Are they going to make changes in the secondary with the coach?

So you know, with those coaches. So yeah, as quickly as they could get this goal, and it will help the scouts who are sitting at home right now trying to figure out, Okay, I get a new coach here, now I got to adjust how I look at these players. It's funny, Brian, because here's the thing about Dan Quinn, and I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but when dan Quinn in twenty nineteen, he took over calling the defense in Atlanta, he was the head coach defensive coordinating

and he did it for half a season. Then he handed it off to Rahee Morris because he was having a tough time doing it. The most important coach will be the secondary coach, and so they will have to make a decision. Are the guys that are currently there good enough to do what they want to do with dan Quinn calling it because that secondary coach has to

fix all the other stuff. Because Dan would be great upfront, and sometimes when you have a guy that is a who's done his work as a D line coach, they can they can dominate the front seven, but you need someone to be able to fix the back in the LEO role. I think that would go to Randy Gregory. I think part of the reason why this move was made is how can we salvage the pieces of the postle that we already have. Randy Gregory can play leo.

The last time we really looked at Jayles Smith and l V playing in a high level it was in this defense. So could did he convince Mike McCarthy I can get those guys to play at a high level because I'm gonna take away some of the thinking. They're just want to run and chase. And the final thing is he has success in Atlanta taking converted corners and putting a safety demante because he from San Diego State was a high level corner with a bunch of ball

skills that they moved to safety. Brian Poole was another guy that they played corner that they moved to safety. So they may look at a guy like a Reggie Robinson and say, well, maybe we can fit him in at safety because he does have some ball skills and it may be easy for him just to be a numbers to numbers play in the middle of the field.

Do you know if there's another guy who, maybe even a veteran that is up for contract renewal, like a Jordan Lewis or maybe a Cheetah Alusier, that dan Quinn might look at and say, hey, I want him back, but I don't want him as a corner. I want him to be as a safety, to kind of go into that transfer mode like that Bucky. You know, I don't know if those guys will do it. I mean, like Lewis is interesting because of the Nickel presence and

because he did a variety of different roles. I don't know, Like I don't know what Cheeto doesn't necessarily strike me as that guy. But I think it all comes down to money and price point and valuing what can you salve which because Cheeto and those guys played on the Christians Chard and that system and the system is very very similar, maybe as salvageable in that aspect, I do wonder.

I also wonder and like, I know no one wants to hear this, but I do wonder about the Earl Thomas conversation coming down the pipe because of the previous relationship down the road, Like if you're gonna get someone who is down and out, if any time, this would be the time, just because maybe the coach's relationship with Earl, and Earl is at a level of maybe desperation when it comes to trying to get back into the league. Oh, I've heard it already on Twitter. People are gonna say, Bucky.

I think people want to hear that, like they absolutely want to hear that. I think it's the media that doesn't necessarily want to hear it. Of the coaching stuff that doesn't necessarily want to hear it. But did Earl Thomas in this time off get help? That's the question, I mean, you know, and I hate, I hate to be the guy that always says, well, why isn't someone

else offered him? Why hasn't There's a lot of scale, there's a lot of skeletons there, there's a lot of things that you know that Earl Thomas has to be able. When Bucky talked about checking all the boxes and stuff, there are things that Earl Thomas has to go back and now that his career has stopped, they go back and say, Okay, did I correct this? Did I correct this? There's plenty of people and Bucky It knows this better than anybody. Scouts will love to talk, but just don't

use my name. Don't use my name here. I'm gonna tell you something. Don't use my name. There are plenty of Scouts front office people talking about Earl Thomas and some of the issues he had. If he's got those things behind him, then that makes a whole heck of a lot of sense to go and get a guy like that. Now, Brian, whatever it came to dan Quinn in this hiring process, I mean it took a virtual interview at first, and then he flew in and talked with Mike McCartney. But in order for this to work,

there had to be buy in on both. The Cowboys had to look at dan Quinn and say, yes, you're the right guy to fix our defense, and dan Quinn had to look at the Cowboys specifically and see their personnel and say I'm good enough to fix this defense. So Bran, I want to hear if you were in dan Quinn's shoes. What would be your elevator pitch on how to shore up a defensive side of the football that struggled so much in twenty twenty. Yeah, that's you know.

I mean, Bucky made a really really good point about your level of defense with with your offense the way it currently is. You know, Rod Marianelli, Christi Shardon had this team last year or two years ago, I guess now eleventh in the league in scoring defense. This defense just needs to be middle of the pack, you know. I mean, but you know, Dan, if you're gonna sell, you've got to sell all those players that we've been talking about. You've got to sell Donovan Wilson. Hey, I

could do this with him as his safety. You've got to sell. You know, he's talking about Jalen Smith and Jerry's eyes all of a sudden line up. But everybody else is like going, oh no, like that. You know you got to sell. Okay, Hey, I saw what you did with Randy Gregory or I like this, this is what we can do. Hey, I think with you know what, we want to play run defense right here. We could use DeMarcus Lords. I could have some pass rush stuff

with him. You just got to sell the fixes. You've got to sell the fixes, and you've got to say, hey, but if you can help me with the draft, if you can help me with the draft, this is what I could use. I could use this type of defensives. I could use this three technique, I could use this one technique. I need this type of safety, I need this type of corner. So you just sell the idea. Now,

let me. I'll say this about dan Quinn. There were whispers about dan Quinn Matt Patricia like early in December, like the first month of December, I mean right right around the first to sue the calendar flipped. They were already starting to look at defensive coordinators out there. So this to me was this wasn't one of those oh, let's knee jerk higher. This was like, wait a minute, we probably are going to have to do something here

at the end of the day. And so they were already looking at things that dan Quinn could do to help this defense. But like I said, his cell is how do you take the current players and bring them up to another another level, and how do you get the defense not to be thirty first in the league, but be fifty and maybe be top twelve when it comes to scoring defense, that's what he's going to have to sell and evidently he did that to the Jones. Brian.

I think the other thing. I think this is an admission that culturally something was wrong on that side of the ball, and I don't think they could admit it and say, hey, let's bring Rod, Mary Nelly and Chris Rashard back because we now admit that we have messed up in terms of letting things slip. But dan Quinn comes from the same thing. And what you're going to see is when we get to the practice fielding and we finally see these guys, you can hear about the

brotherhood and you goes hear a level of accountability. You can hear him talk about running to the ball and playing together and we're gonna make it simple. So now everything is about your effort and energy and all of those things. I think this higher was about that. Also will say this, I think Mike McCarthy may realize as the head coach, someone has to be the heavy and on this staff there wasn't anybody that could be the heavy when it's going awry and be like, hey, you

know what we're not doing this in those meetings. Dan Quinn can play the heavy even though he is super positive that head coach pedigree. I think his leadership will be invaluable because if Mike McCarthy wants to be the CEO, somebody has to be the barker. I would think that he would be the guy that is barking at the team when necessary. Dave anything to add on that, No,

I think Brian's absolutely right. And actually it was it was just last year or yeah, I mean twenty nineteen they were eleventh and scoring and they were fifth the year before that with a very similar level of talent. And like I said, not you know, when I say when I called it a knee jerk reaction, I don't mean to hire dan Quinn. Like I'm sure that they did their due diligence. Obviously, dan Quinn has been unemployed since October, and they've known they were going to move

on from Mike Nolan at least since early December. But when I say knee jerk, I just basically mean I think the front office sat down and they were like, what is our quickest path back to having a respectable defense? And I think this was it, you know, going back to what they already know with an experienced coordinator and a similar amount of you know, this basically the same talent that they had two seasons ago. This is the fastest course back to having a better defense. That's kind

of the way I feel about it. And I've said they saw on a couple of shows already. But I'm glad that nobody is learning on the job at this point. And I'm glad that you've done that experiment on the offensive side of football with Callen Moore and you've had a younger coordinator come up and kind of learn on the job as a part of the Dallas Cowboys. I'm glad you didn't do that with a defensive coordinator at least at the same time and have it both ways.

And you talk about being the heavy Bucky that was initially my first thought was, Hey, this is a guy who can come in and be that right hand man and be that second enforcer for Mike McCarthy on this coaching staff. I don't think Mike Nolan did that, or at least the players respected him enough to do that. So I think Dan Quinn brings that extra level of maturity and experience that, Hey, I've been to the mountaintop. I've been in one Super Bowls. That's a coordinator. I've

been to a Super Bowl as a head coach. I've done it on multiple occasions in multiple spots. That means I can do it again here and hopefully that's ultimately

ends up being the case. I think it also signals that all the conversation that we're here on the outside about Dak Prescott, I think the conversation is Dak Prescott is coming back, because I think when you make this move for the defense to be like this, it's saying that our offense is going to be a top five offense because the quarterback is coming back, not because we're

gonna break in a new or a different quarterback. I think if you look at that, I think that conversation had to be had to be had if they want to get up and running, or they prayed that Dan Quinn has a top five defense and Jameis Winston can lead him in the Promised Land. Mac Jones at ten, Hey, he's gonna day Bucky. Let's get those trade charts out. What do we gotta do to get up to five? We were sitting in the four hole. Everybody wanted to

start winning games again. Not me, I'm sorry, just fine there in the Zach Wilson everybody oh man, oh that's that took a turned out of nowhere. I love it, Brian, all right. When we come back Twitter on the twenty, is there a single position from the Dallas Cowboys that could be marked completely off of the draft board? I don't think so, but we're gonna talk about ones that maybe could be when we come back on the other side of the break here on the Dallas Cowboys dot

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as always for some Twitter. There we go Chris Beam as always, and we've got a bevvy of questions today, some really really good ones. We're gonna start things off with our pal Roman, and Roman says when judging first round corners, any consideration of who pairs be best with treyvon Diggs in terms of matchup options, for example, Digson's or Tan Combo would seem like a lack of wheels guy who can keep up with the burner types is kind of what he was saying. So basically, who do

you want to pair with Treyvon Digson. Does that go into specific consideration from a scouts perspective in front of front office perspective? Brian, whenever you're looking at making a pick at ten at the cornerback spot, yeah, I think you have to evaluate who you were. You know, who your roster is and the type of makeup, and you know you have to determine dan Quinn's gonna come in and say, you know, hey, I've got this type of corner that can that can is capable of traveling. I've

got a slot corner. I've got a guy that you know, I might have to hide a little bit here, but yeah. But I think what you do is you just you put those guys on the board and you evaluate the best you can with the traits that the coaches have asked you, Hey, I need this type of a player, and you know, the whole idea is to get as many of those guys as you can, so to basically say, hey, we're going to just because Diggs can't do this and the slot can't do this, We're got to go get

this kind of guy. I think if you start to think about that way, you have a disjointed group in the secondary and I, but I think you want guys. If everybody tends to have the same skill, you know, then I feel like though that you can make more of the matchup things that you want to do. So I wouldn't just say, Okay, we're going to do this because we have Diggs or this slot. I think they do it because hey, this guy could play. This guy could play, and this guy could play, and they're all

within our group of what we think the trade should be. Yeah, Brian, it's funny because I dug into my trusty little whenever I poured this out. Just know, I'm digging into the notes. I'm reading what I wrote down about Caleb Farley. I don't think it changes the draft board at all. Like right now at the top, I think like Caleb Farley pass or ten. The second I think all those guys fit. Farley is interesting just because if you look at dan Quinn in the system, they normally don't have burners on

the outside. Typically their thing is length ball skills because they're gonna press and bail and they're gonna run out of there and do those things or whatever. And so I think you do want to look at the tan. I mean you would like to have someone in the stable that can run around and do the slot stuff and maybe match up with a speed guy. But I think the big thing is you have to be a great tackle and you have to have some length so you can walk up and put your hands on people.

I think that is going to be their calling card. And you know, we'll see. Because Al Harris is in the secondary, maybe Al Harris can take those guys and to teach him how to press and do some of that stuff that he used to do in green Back. Yeah, they took the Atlanta took the you know, everybody, depending on what you thought about the Clemson corner last year. I mean, Atlanta was on that kid the whole time.

I mean people, yeah, people, they I mean they got him. Yeah, they had him way up on the board and you know as one of their I mean I remember dealing with those guys and I'm like, well, what did you like? And there, you know everything, because I was trying to think I had like two or three guys that I would have taken ahead and I and I was wondering. But to your point, Bucky, that's what they're saying. The traits that they looked at like Okay, this kid can

do this. He could run, he could play press, he could turn, you know all those things. So yeah, they were they took a different style of corner than maybe most people really thought about taking last year. Do you think that you mentioned Bucky a moment ago about the length I mean Caleb Barley six two hundred pounds and maybe even a little bit less than that whenever the

way ends come around. But do you think the link there is enough to get Dan Quinn excited at ten enough to maybe say, hey, he does fit into this system as kind of a bigger, longer corner even though he does have all the measurables. Well, I mean, I mean, certainly that is there. But the one thing Atlanta was so different in Seattle, so you're trying to figure out which one he is because Seattle never invested, never invested in corners. They would find their guys down the line

and they would develop them. Some of that is they Pete Carroll's a dB guy as a head coach, and so he takes a fancy in developing those guys. They put a lot of time and energy into developing in them. Dan invested in corners at the top of the board, and so I would think that he would probably want a more refined product, and so maybe Farley in certain and those guys, Jacon warn and those guys would fall

into that conversation because of the length. The length is important, not only because of the press part of it, but because down the field, when you're playing these wide receivers in the fifty fifty balls, can they knock the balls away when you have to make these contested plays And so that plays a part of it. But you know, it'll be interesting. But I do think you'll see the six foot plus corners. I think that would be very very much in vogue for the Cowboys going forward. My

dream of ASANTI Samuel Junior has died. Yeah, yeah, you might be in trouble done that. Yeah, And you don't think they could They could get him later and then develop them into it. Oh, he's gonna go somewhere, but they're they're not gonna be able to get back around to him. I don't think they are. I mean, Bucky's right, this guy's gonna take He's gonna take tall. This is Look at all the tall corners in this draft. The

guy's over six foot. Jasey Horne from South Carolina. Look at every one of those guys six feet bigger, long armed guys. I think that's the direction that the Cowboys are gonna go. I feel like that's that's a pretty good standpoint. Now, moving on into our second question, Richmond asked that I want to start with Dave on this one. Is there any position that the Cowboys should not spend a pick on? He's gonna he excludes fullback, kicker, and punter in the twenty twenty one draft. And if there

is a position, why would it be that position? I'll cheat a little bit. I mean, I'll say premium pick, because if you're talking about the entire draft, I mean, you can draft whoever the hell you want to once you get down to the six and seventh rounds. I mean they did it with Ben d Nucci last year, Like no nobody had heard of Ben da Nucci. Like we we hadn't even heard of Ben da Nucci and

Burglar only. Yeah, seriously, So I do literally do whatever you want once you get to the six and seventh rounds. But it's fine. I mean, you know it's ironic because I was one of the big Team forty brigger guys last year. But unless you're Brian. I'll make this concession for Brian. Unless you're forced into a situation where Kyle Pitts is the only pick that makes sense. This team doesn't have any business drafting a pass catcher with a

premium pick first, second, or third round. I don't know how you justify that with you know, Amari Cooper, Ceedee Lamb was your first round pick last year, you still have a year of Michael Gallop, Blake Jarwin is under contract for three more years and is coming back. Dalton Schultz emerged as a reliable guy. I just don't know how you do that unless you're really forced into a situation where you don't have another choice, and I'll be you know, we don't like the window dress the board.

If Kyle Pitts is clearly that much better than everybody, then you should probably take him. But if you can, you gotta find a way to avoid that, whether it's training down or you know, airing toward defense. I just I don't know how you do that this year. I think if they make an offensive pick, guys, I think it.

If the guy's there, it's gonna be Slater, the offensive tackle from Northwestern that's who I think if if you know, if they're going to look at these defensive guys hard and you know, now with Dan involved, I mean, I'll see a guy that I the Ojulari from Georgia, and I know they've got a couple defensive ends and stuff

like that. But if there's somebody that's sitting like at fifteen then has a chance to maybe be at ten, I would I would take a look at that type of a player there more than Pay or one of those other guys. But to me, if they go offense, if they go offense, again, my dreams of Pits I think are gone. But I think that it would be

I think Slater would be that guy. I just that that it just makes too much sense for them to If they got if they got stuck and they said, okay, just take the best player on the board, Slater is going to be the best player on the board. I didn't. I didn't say you can't draft offense. I just said, no, no, no, I know. But I'm saying if they take an offensive guy, if they take an offensive guy, I think it's you know, now, hell, they might take a quarterback, but you know, if that

quarterback's there or so you know, you never know. It's funny because the guy's name who's now going to be back in play. And I know it's gonna drive JC crazy. But I would not be surprised as if Gregory Rousseau becomes a topic of interest only because this is he's the same guy who saw something in Vic Beasley High and Vic Beasley and those they have similar traits in terms of the length and all the other stuff. So Bucky Beasley was not very good though. Yeah, he wasn't

anything special, which killing everybody's vibe right now. No, no, no, no, no, no, here here, here's why I'm gonna say the Gregor Russo and the Vic Beasley thing. Vic Beasley when he's coming out of clips and I wanted to say he had thirty four or thirty five sacks he was up there with von Miller and then the one year in Atlanta

when they popped when he had fifteen and a half. Yeah, a bunch of forced fumbles and all that other stuff like traits, and he is a D line guy, and you can never ignore the fact that he is a D line guy and he's going to see he's gonna see flashes he's gonna be captivated by flashes that we may be like, ah, that's a throwaway, but the d line coach is gonna be like, man, I know I can get him to do X, Y and Z. I see this developmental potential. So I'm just saying it opens

up some other stuff. You are opens up. You are making me. You're giving me some Rod Marinelli flashbacks, and I'm not loving it right now. Hey, By the way, I can't wait to see that thirty for thirty on Rod in the draft and how you remember you remember the way Rod used to walk into the war room like every fricking pick, because somehow, like I'm just imagining that all over again, like Dan just walking in there like yeah, we're taking the arts crossed, like pointing at

the board, you know, kind of give it the hand gestures. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. I get. It's party to do. It's party to do. That's the fun part. It's fun part the coach when the coaches come in, Bucky, how many times you sit in the war room and the coaches walk in and you just want to just like you just want to kind of throw in your mouth. You just gotta oh, you know, something bad's about to happen,

something bad's about up here. And the coaches ring their top ten, their top ten at a position, and you're like, who what best? Don't order? I don't like it. I don't like it that I like this guy, like this guy. We're going We're going straight back into twenty seventeen, just like we thought we would, right, everybody, all right? Well, next question comes from Jeff Rice, and this is interesting

for all those aggy listeners out there. I know there's a couple of them listening for sure, But do you think Kelln maund would be a good developmental quarterback behind Dak Prescott maybe in the middle rounds of that draft? Do you see any of the same traits as dad? Brian will start with you really don't, really, don't, you know? I just you know, I feel like though, to me, Kelln Mound was a guy, and I and Dave and I sat at Kyle Field and watched the seven overtime

game and why you gotta bring that up? And I was amazed. I was like, man, this guy's making throw after throw after throw, and then all of a sudden he has another year where And I thought that Jimbo and you know it. Give Texas A and M a lot of credit for the record, the games they won, going to get a Bowl game victory like they did,

I just don't see it with Kellen Mond. I just don't see the processing, you know, I see the size and things like that, but just overall, how you play the you know, how you read, how do you react. I just think there's just too much there to have to deal with. So I would, I would. I would focus on some some other guys. If you were talking about backup developmental guys, Kellen Mond would not be one of my guys that I would choose. Yeah, I would,

I would. I would concur I would agree that the biggest surprise for me, it's dangerous, bucky, because I usually suck at evaluating quarterbacks. But the biggest surprise for me is seeing the success that Texas and M had with him as a starting quarterback. I never would imagine that this would have been a top ten, almost of top five team with him at quarterback. He did some really good things there, But I don't think. I don't see any of the similar characteristics. I don't think he's a

tough or physical runner. I think he's okay as a passer and playmaker in that regard. But I don't see any of the stuff that I saw at Mississippi State with Dak. I don't see Kellamnt having any of those trades. This rule of thumb will probably bite me. That's like, it's definitely not universal. But if I'm going to invest something significant in a quarterback, I need to see him lift his team, Like do you know he needs to be the reason why they win or you know, he

needs to be the only thing going. You know, you know Dak, those Mississippi State teams, you know, Mississippi State puts a lot more talent in the NFL than they used to, but they're still not Alabama and Dak. Anybody, right, nobody, but yeah, but Dak lifted them to highs that they went ever on. Even you know, card L Jones, who did not have a great NFL career, still you know, he took over the College Football playoff when he got

his opportunity. And you know, I said the same thing about Daniel Jones is like, if Daniel Jones is worth a top ten pick, I should have seen more from him at Duke. Even at Duke. I know Duke doesn't have any talent, but if you're worth a top ten pick, you should be capable of lifting duke to a high that they weren't capable of. And I never once saw that from Kellen Mond at A and M. Did you

think Patrick Mahomes took Texas Tech to New Heights? Patrick Mahomes didn't take them to new heights, But holy crap, was he amazing every time he got on the field. I mean, they were routinely scoring sixty seventy points as terrible the Tech. The Tech basketball team is a top four, a top you know, final four team. Every year, they don't score as many points as Mahomes had to at Tech. It was a it was crazy watching him play because every week he was he knew he had to throw

five or six touchdowns every week. He knew that, you know, And I think that there's some places that these quarterbacks end up. It's unfortunate for them because they are you see. Yeah, the reason why the team even has a chance is because of him, and that I think that's what Holmes, you know, yeah, what did with that with that program, And that's kind of my and all credit to A and M. They won eight games in a row. You know,

they might finish number two in the final polls. They had a great season, but nobody, nobody on A and M's schedule was like, watch out, we got mom this week. I don't know about this, Like there has to be some wild factor to the quarterback, like you talked about Pat Mahomes. He was the hardest evaluation for me because I've never seen I've never seen a sandlot player go to the league and have success where they refined their game or whatever. With Kellen Matt, I don't know if

I ever watching. Look, they played Carolina in the Orange Bowl and Carolina was depleted, and I didn't come away from the game game being like, wow, Kelly Man was the best player on the field. Like I was, like, they got good running backs, they're real fast on defense, stuff like that. But I didn't see enough wild or

whole type plays. And I think the way the game is going, your quarterback better be able to deliver some stuff because your offensive line can't block these guys that are upfront, and so he has to be able to make some wild plays once twice three times a game to be able to sustain the offense. So maybe that question wasn't for the Aggies. Maybe it was against the Aggies or for everybody who doesn't like the Aggies. I

guess I bet, I bet most Aggie fans agree with that. Yes, if I yes, definitely have friends that would agree with that. I think overall, Now, final questions, we're running out of time for this segment. But our h asked what's easier to get in round one versus Round two and round three? Cornerback, offensive tackle, defensive tackle. Where did those kind of fit

into those three slots. I'm gonna be biased. I'm gonna say it's always easy to find corners because I think depending on the system that you play or whatever, you can manufacture a corner. I think offensive tackles you need to take them early. Okay, Yeah, I think Buckie's absolutely right.

It depends. I mean, some of these corners are probably initially were looked at his probably fifth round guys on a lot of boards when these scouts went out, you know, and started their process and now, uh, you know, for example, I'm thinking about the kid, you know, Tyson Campbell from from Georgia, probably a fourth round guy that might have elevated himself as up into the thing job from Alabama, I mean, there's some guys that are kind of that

you look at and you're thinking, well, man, they started at this level, now they're up. I just think that the corner spot is a little bit of a deeper thing. Molden is another kid from Washington. You know, there's there's quarners on these It's going to be on this board that you know, if you miss in that first round, you know you get the second, the third round. I think that position is going to run a little bit

deeper for you to be able to grab. If you you're talking about and we've seen a draft with the last couple of years, offensive tackles have actually been pretty good. You know, this looks like another class. It has that same kind of thing. So I'm I'm but I'm with Bucky. I think I could I could wait on corners, grant those offensive lineman first when you can. I was about this. I mean, I don't know if I don't think this class is as good as last year's with Worfs and

Beckton and those guys. But you know, everybody's been so focused on penet Sewell and Rashaan Slater. I know, you know, Christian Derrisau out of good. Yeah, but then shoot the Alabama guy Alex Leatherwood looks like he looks like a beast too. It's supposed to be a top fifteen pick last year before you returned back to Alabama. This looks like another class where you know, and we know how, we know how valuable the position is, and we know

how hard it is to find good ones. It's a lot like quarterback where I think, you know, maybe if they're not even purely the best players on the board, you can talk me into thinking, you know, three to five of these guys go in the top twenty for sure. Man, I think there's gonna be a run on I think winning doubt. You take an offensive offensive tackle, and the way the game is going, you can't even separate a

right tackle and left tackle. Both guys need to be able to dance on the on the perimeter because teams are flipping what they're doing with their pass rushes and putting them on that side. To take advantage of it, I think you have to be able to protect on the edges and put the running game and all those things. So I think Dolphins tackles are very, very valuable. Yeah, whenever you look at Chase Young on the other side of the division that you're going to have to go

up against for the next couple of years. Yeah, I don't. I hope I'm not butchering this kid's name. But you talk about tackles. I watched the kid that Ikenburg from Notre Dame uh and then the tackle Leah Mikelberg. I

think I'm saying it right. If not, don't, but I'll tell you this, though, there's some there's some guys that you talk the kid at Texas, I think there's some tackles in this saying Dave's right, It's not probably the level that we saw last year, but man, there's some kids that could play, and you know, you plug them

in and they'll they'll be just fine. Though the way you there's there's so many of these kids now that they're in this passing past mode, pass mode, pass mode, and then all of a sudden you watch the block and stuff and they're like, man, they get it, you know, and then when they watch him in the run game, they finish. So you know, it's it's a pretty good

group to evaluate right now. Yeah, Samuel Cosme's up there in the first round conversation the kid out of Texas, like you said, Brian, And then about Leam Eikenberg, got his name right, He's a senior Bowl guy. And there's another Senior Bowl guy. I'm really excited to look at Dylan Redunds. It might be his name. He's out of North Dakota State, and I mean, I think he's going to be something interesting, one of those kind of FCS products that might be talked about in the early couple

of rounds. So there's a couple of guys that are going to be a mobile at the offensive tackle spot that are very intriguing. Okay, so we're gonna take this second and step aside. When we come back. Who up there stock? Last night? Out of the almost called it the BCS National Championship Game. I'm going back to two thousand and eight, Who up there stock yesterday in the College Football Playoff National Championship Game? And did it change your mind on the way to look at receivers in

this trap? We'll be right back here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. We're batting in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and Cream soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor peppe and Cream Soda. Is he a newcombo? Let's music to my ears? Okay, Doctor Pepper time prays music to my ears and mouth new Doctor pepper and Cream Soda? A delis just do There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR pioneers wigs to make lenses as

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See att dot com Slash five G for you for details. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show? Back here On episode eight of the twenty twenty one edition of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, Kyle Yeoman's with you.

Brian brought us Bucky Brooks and David Hellman, wrapping up another fun episode and just after the college football wrapped up another crazy season, probably the most unforgettable season of college football that we will all experience, and hopefully it's the last time we have to deal with COVID nineteen as a college football playoff season. But Alabama comes out on top. They dominate their way to a national championship.

First Wall to wall, number one ranked team in the history of the UH the College Football Playoff rankings, and they go from Week one until the final week of the year and the dot waiver. They were number one the entire way. But based on kind of some of the conversations that we had last week, gentlemen, and we kind of talked about it a little bit on this show.

We really previewed the game on the Thursday show. But who up their stock because there were scouts or even looking at what Dave Bluegler said last week, he said that scouts do put these big games into consideration because it's the big stage, it's against the best competition. There's a lot that goes into it. But I want to know who last night Bucky raised their stock from either side of the football Alabama or Ohio State. Well, I mean, I think it's easy. DeVante Smith put on He put

on an absolute show. And I think the thing that you like about him is he's an outstanding route runner. He has great hands, he does a great job of creating separation. I think what Sark was able to do was he was able to when the coaches look at it. He was able to give them a blueprint for the imagination that you can use in a creativity that you can use to really get him open. My biggest thing has been his size and how are you going to help him kind of deal with some of the physicality

and stuff that he'll face when lining up. But the way that they used him last night, I think you helped himself. You know, even though he went off the game with an injury, the fact that he can do that, and I made the point on Twitter, the fact that he can return punts. Some of the questions about toughness and courage they go away because the punk return thing solves that and eliminates that for a lot of scouts

and coaches. The fake jet motion that they ran with him in the first or second quarter was disgusting, Like that was that was so much fun? Um No, that's my biggest So two names jump out to me. One is obviously DeVante Smith, and I'm devastated because, you know, maybe at the start of the night, I was like, oh, maybe DeVante Smith falls to ten and the Cowboys can use him as trade bait. He ain't fallen to tend yea. He played on the he played on his home field

for the draft. He played last night, he was one of my way. Yeah, I mean, Miami makes a lot of sense. Philadelphia makes a lot of sense unfortunately. So that's the big one. And then I think we talked about him at the top, but Christian Barmore was all over the damn place and in a draft that doesn't have a premier defensive tackle. If he wasn't a first

round pick before last night, I think he definitely is now. Yeah, you know, I'm going to take a little bit of a different approach, and you know, I the quarterback position. I was laughing that I don't evaluate very well. But I may not hit on a couple here lately. I was right about Josh Allen. I'm patting myself on the back because I'm usually wrong, but as you should. Yeah, but I'll tell you this though, Matt Jones in a big time game, and you know, Ohio State didn't have

their big time defense. I mean there was some struggles there with it, but the way he commanded the offense, the way he ran it, the way, you know, other than the sack and the fumble and stuff like that, the way he was able to bounce back. I think that you know, maybe if you had some question is about him going in last night, he answered, I mean that the touch, the accuracy. Yeah, he plays with great players. He has a nice offensive line. But you know, you've

got to make those throws. You've got to be able to read make the throws half touch body type wise, he looks like a nineteen seventies quarterback. You know what I'm saying. He's not what we're used to see him. But I think as far as a guy helping himself with how he played and how he handled the big stage, I think some people are going to consider him on the back end of the draft, possibly at the end

of the first round of this draft. So and then also to the tackle, you know, with Leatherwood, I you know, you watch him, He's just got such balance. He's a big guy. He moves easily. You know, again when you start talking about these offensive tackles, and you know, coming out last year, you know he probably been right in the mix. But I think he's even inched himself up the board a little bit more. Depending on who you like. You like the Virginia Tech kid, you know, you like Northwestern?

Who do you really like, I think he's kind of put himself in the conversation with the toughness he's shown, the athletic ability and the size that he played with last night. You know, it's interesting, Brian, I'm gonna mention this. I thought maybe one of you guys mentioned Naja Harris. Yeah, I think I think Naja Harris the last few games, I think he has helped himself more than anybody else,

and not just because of the running ability. He is an outstanding pass catcher, like and he can run rouse and so if we're talking about a position that people don't necessarily like to invest in, I'm all about investing in a big guy that can run inside and also make things happen in the passing game. I think for me, he has separated himself from Travis Etienne and some of the other running backs that people have talked about being

first round picks. What popped him as well, Bucky. I like his size too, I mean six two two thirty compared to Aten who is five ten two ten, and the fact that he can run as well as he can, the way he makes a man messy. He I mean, even last night, you look at the way that he just had tacklers bounce off of him or just cut back inside. The one play where he was kind of out in the flats and he caught the ball, kind of bobbled a little bit, and then he took it

back in and then dove into the end zone. I was impressed by that, and that athleticism is there from Naja Harris to the point where I was. I mean, I was really impressed with what he brought to the table. Now, one thing I did meant or didn't notice just a second ago, is the fact that all of the names outside of Barmore were on the offensive side of the football. Was there anybody that hurt their stock last night defensively? One that comes to mind. One name that comes to

mind might have been Sean Wade. But also, I mean, you look at Dylan Moses, the linebacker from Alabama. I wasn't necessarily impressed with what he brought to the table last night. Curtan, he played well, but overall, I mean, it was kind of a whole home night from Patrick Certan. But anybody that sticks out from a defensive standpoint, I wonder if teams are gonna look at Wade as a safety, you know, I mean, I was just you know, when you talk about how do you handle things off the line,

you know, how do you yourself in position? I mean, the guy had a lot of questions about him coming into the game, and man, you saw not that Alabama receivers are an easy cover by any means. You know, a waddle was compromised last night. He did the best he could to play. But I mean, you look at Wade. I wonder, I really wonder. I was proud to see him, like early in the game come up make a play down on the goal line where he read it, got up there, got a tackle for loss, and I thought, man,

maybe he is a safety. Maybe he's not a cornerback here. But I saw some problems there with some of the separation and how he played on the line. It kind of made me feel like, Okay, I feel like I evaluated this guy right going in that I don't have him as one of those surefire, top flight guys. If someone takes him, I think they're gonna make him a safety myself, safety or nickel. I think he has to

play in the slot. I think the reason why he's more effective in the slot is you rarely faced the vertical threats in the slot like that, and you always have the event energy being able to play to your help either safety in the post or someone over the middle of the field. I think one, don't call out DeVante Smith for say that's where I want and then let DeVante Smith go for two fifteen and in the first half like that is a bad look, Like that

is something that they might know. So I'm like, yeah, I'm mad at him for not evaluating himself and knowing that you don't want to take on that matchup like that. I got one, and so to two thoughts. Thinking about the linebackers. I was not very high on Dylan Moses going into this game. He's the name that you know, he's probably the biggest name among defenders in this game, maybe a top fifteen pick, and last year, I mean in his defense, you know, he's coming off a major

knee injury. I think he was quoted earlier this season is saying he doesn't feel all the way right, and I feel bad for him, But like just watching him, I don't see it. I don't see the instincts and I don't see the athleticism that would make me want to draft him very highly on the opposite side. I knew the name going into this game, but I didn't know a ton about Baron Browning for Ohio State, and

I thought I thought he played a great game. Obviously he had the strip sack on mac Jones, but also just all night, I felt like he was crashing down setting the edge. He forced Nagie Harris to cut back half a dozen times when he didn't want to, just redirecting plays and just generally seem to be in position to make tackles. That's That's what I'm looking for, is like, I don't want to spend a top ten pick on a linebacker, but if you tell me I could get

Baron Browning in the second round, let's go. I don't know if that's realistic, but I got excited thinking about the possibility. The one thing you know how to know about those Alabama linebackers, when you get through their complete medical history to help, you would swear they're my age, you know. And that's tough. Man. It's tough on those kids because they're in so many collisions during the season and they get so banged up. But yeah, I mean,

I do like what you're saying about Browning. I thought that you know, he was the one guy defensively in Ohio State was they didn't they didn't get they didn't show up. I mean they got, not that they didn't show up, but they just did not have the horses to run that race. And Browning at least gave him a chance. And some of those some of those plays, I like Browning a lot. I mean, first off, I've seen him play since he was in high school, the

Pride of Kennadale High School over near Fort Worth. But I like what he brings to the table in terms of a speed perspective and somebody who could, like you said, read an offense. And that's what I saw last night, Dave. I was right there with you and the fact that he had it and Dylan Moses didn't and that was kind of the big question for me. Okay, So final couple questions here before we wrap things up. How does this wide receiver class compare to that one of last year?

And with Smith and even Waddle if he's healthy and back ready to go, which we assume he will be. But you've got Jamar Chase, you've got Bateman, you've got Marshall Junior out of LU. Compared to the guys like Cdlam, Justin Jefferson, Jerry Judy, and Ruggs that we're out of last year's class, Bucky, do you think that this class has any chance to stand up to the one from a year ago? Yeah, I think. I think the classes that we'll see going forward will always be loaded with

pass catchers. I think what we've seen is we've seen the impact that seven on seven has had. We're getting a more polished version of wide receivers in the NFL

now more than ever. And the other thing that has happened with the stuff that's happened in the lower ranks, we're seeing better athletes at wide receiver and lesser athletes at dB because the top three or four athletes the high school coaches taking them and putting them at wide receiver, and so the guys who are left at dB are athletes four or five and six, And so that's the thing that we have to consider. But Yeah, the athletes

are outstanding. They're coming in ready to play, and I think this class would be like the last class where not only in the first round, but in the second, third round we'll see guys that pop in and have immediate impact. Yeah, when I'm looking forward to seeing is the old crusties. Will they kill Will they kill Smith because of the weight? Will they kill because of the lack of bulk? And will they fall in love with cha?

Chase has become a kind of a forgotten guy in these wide receiver thoughts, and going into the season, that was your top guy and now all of a sudden you've got guys that have played during the season, Waddle and Smith and those guys, and you know, now, could Chase make up that ground? I hope that people don't forget? But man, you look at him physically, you know, Crusty's love though that look they love what you know that that looks like a wide receiver? You know? But will

Smith be able to maintain that level? The tape is tremendous, But will Crusty say, man, but he's only one hundred and seventy pounds. He's one hundred and seventy pounds, you know that. I just wonder if that I would if if there's a real gap or or now are we on an even playing field with these two guys in a world where Tyree Hill is doing what he's doing? Yeah, I don't I don't think Jamar Chase is gonna sorry, not Jamar Chase. DeVante Smith is gonna fall too far.

And it turns out sitting out might have been a great decision on Jamar's part. I just I don't you know, who knows what his stock would look like if he had played the whole season on that LSU team. Marshall wasn't terrible. We talked about more, wasn't yeah, yeah, but Marshall does the only think LSU had, Yeah, but catching ten eleven balls every time. He also was like, after like seven or eight games, he was like, you know what, enough of this. I don't want to do this anymore.

But no, I mean this, this receiver class is gross in a good way. Like I'm I'm looking at the list right now, like you get ten or eleven or twelve names deep, like Elijah Moore out of Old miss Yeah, hell, hell of a player, Tyland Wallace at Oklahoma State, awesome wide receiver, and that you know, I don't even to know what to do with Cadarius Tony. He's I mean, somebody's well exactly, somebody's gonna draft him. Him and him and Rondel Moore out of Purdue are gonna get drafted

on athleticism alone, or what a watch too. I'll tell you this, it's gonna be It's gonna be exciting for sure. And keep an eye a bateman from Minnesota too, that's another. Don't forget, don't forget, don't forget a barbershot baman. Absolutely, And that's why I think. You know, we always talk about running backs and not investing in a first round

running back. Brian knows in Green Bay, we didn't draft wide receivers in the first round because you always can find the guy in the second and third round, and you just rated off a list of ten guys. Why would I really invest in a first round wide receiver when I knew I can find someone at the top of the second round that can give me maybe comfortable value. Yeah, unless it's Smith from Alabama. Then you invest in and

you don't get fired. You don't have to do the draft show or Kyle Bits figure it out and working with it from there. Getting a pass catcher in the top ten, that's fine too. I just can't wait till for our future. Dallas Cowboy former North Texas alum Jayalen Gardens picked in the fifth round by the Dallas Cowboys and he ends up going for a thousand yards next year. That's my that's my one pipe dream for the Cowboys overall. Now, don't that's gonna do it? For us here on the

Dallas Cowboys dot dot Com Draft Show. I'm dropping the mic on you, Dave, final time or excuse me not the final time. When we come back on Thursday, ten am, it'll be Dame Bruegler, It'll be Jeff Kavanaugh and Katie Kevin Turner there as well, So be sure to join us on Thursday at ten am is of course the start time for the Draft Show. But for Brian brought us, for David Hellman, and for Bucky Brooks, I'm Kyle Yoman saying so long. Appreciate you join us here on the

Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.