Draft Show: Combined Efforts

the Draft Show for y'all. Like the Big Voice said, I am David Hellman. I'm joined as usual by Kyle Yeoman's Brian brought us Jeff Kavanaugh. Morning fellows. How are we doing? Doing well? Doing well? Thank you. I gotta be honest, Brian, I'm I mean, I'm happy about the news with the Combine that we're going to get to, but I'm a little disappointed because I thought I might be able to get a rant out of you today with everything that was going on with basically a threatened

boycott of the activities at the Combine. I know how near and dear all of that is to your heart, and I just I thought you might have some fire to spit at us today if we thought the combine wasn't going to happen the way it normally does. No, I think that I've come to realization though, that we're all going to go to Tallahassee in Gainesville and Baton Rouge in Los Angeles. We're still going to do that after the combine. The most important thing about that combine

is those medicals. And I need to know if I'm putting those tags on that board, that those players are healthy enough for me to take. So my rant about that, But then again, you're talking to a guy then nineteen ninety three was sitting there and wondering why they would ever put this on TV. You know, why would people really care about that? And now the league is having to agent demands because they're not wanting to tank their ratings.

Yeah no, And you know I understand it's the NFL has done a tremendous job of not giving us any days off. You know, they've made this a year round job, which we're all grateful to have. But if they started messing with that, the agents had come out, you'd got the rant for me about the medicals. If they would have said we're boycotting the medicals too. Now you would have got the rant fair enough, which, like I said,

I'm a little bit disappointed to not hear it. But just in case, in case you haven't been following this story, the NFL Combine is set the start in Indianapolis basically a week from today. I think the players get there

on Monday, the twenty eighth. But there was a bubble rule in place for COVID concerns, and the league had all of these restrictions, and the players and their agents were basically like, wait a second, Like you're you're going to screw us over, Like we're not going to have access to our trainers, were going to be locked in our hotel rooms all day. And they basically said, we're not going to participate in any of these drills if

you don't change the rules. And I think another big thing on it was weren't they going to clump a bunch of the skills and the power drills together? What they were doing binge and running and all some of that. Some of that hasn't changed. Jad hasn't changed. No, And I think that to me though, And it's funny because when this was all going down. I reached out to somebody that the Cowboys about Dallas Day, and I reached out about the thirty visits because I was curious, you know.

And the word is they're still going to have Dallas Day this year, which they hadn't had because of the COVID situations, and they were worried about that maybe the thirty the thirty visit thing. I said, thirty days, thirty visit thing that they have, that maybe they would have to add more players to that that the league would

give them more opportunities to meet with guys. But then the league came out and said, hell, no, well we'll do all this other things to kind of make sure that we have it and took it took all of thirty six hours, Jeff, for the league to reverse course on that people were going to show up. Oh, I think they would have showed up to Brian's point, and that's there was one major agency that announced last week where they were like, yeah, if they don't change this stuff,

like our players aren't coming. And I think that is your real catalyst where it's just like, look, we're not going to do it, because look at the combine, the medicals are the most important. But if I'm gonna go out there and run a short shuttle and a forty and do these jumps and I don't feel like the environment is conducive to me doing it, well I'm not doing it. Yep. We've lived at that before though, because I could lose millions of dollars. Yeah, yeah, with bad runs.

But we've lived with that before. We've lived with they weren't going to this time. No, we've lived with We've lived with the guys not working out. Like I said, we're all going to get in our cars and planes and stuff and head for all these schools, you know. And what's what I'll tell you what though, is also something that you know, the the NFL has proven that if you don't play football in a year, we'll still draft you. You know. That's that, That's that's reality. Damn.

I mean that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying, absolutely every single one of them. And there's there's a time where I wouldn't have believed that, And now the league has said, you know what, Fine, we had this COVID thing, we didn't have all the access to information, we didn't have all the medicals. We still put together a draft board, and we still drafted and a lot of guys had success doing this. The medical parts the most scary thing to me because you've got players now

that won't run a forty. I mean, there's plenty of guys that you these these tops, some of these top quarterbacks whatever, they're not going to run. They're just not gonna do it. And you know, and it used to be that I was starved for numbers. It's really not the numbers anymore to me. It's more about now the it's more about the film, the medical and how these guys are going to fit into my to my program, which if you're if you're new to this or if

you don't follow the combine closely. Brian's brought up the medicals a few times, which a big, a huge part of this. It's a huge when the guys so downtown Indianapolis has three or four medical centers, hospitals, and the NFL has made it into a science. Actually, our dear buddy Chris Hall, the director of college Scouting, still does I believe, Yes, he has been in since nineteen ninety

two when I was working in. Yeah, he's been working with that and so all three hundred of these players are two ninety whatever the number is check in and they get MRIs and X rays and get stuff that you've had surgery looked at, and all of that goes out to the league so that you have a complete medical picture on each guy that's participating. That the drills obviously go on TV, but we all agree that that's

the most important information coming out of this. Yeah. The thing about it is is these these teams are broken up into pods of doctors and you have the trainers and the doctors, so you might have five to seven doctors per pod, So these kids aren't doing thirty two individual you know, medical evaluations. Now. The great thing about the medical evalue at the combine is again the doctor's all working together, the team's all working together, sharing information,

grades and stuff like that. It really is well done, well put together by the trainers and how they do that. But this is the first time that you get to see these kids, because there used to be a time in the early nineties when I started, where you were able to ask for the medical records of these players

and you got that from the trainers. Now with hippolass, no, you know, getting that stuff so the first time that you know anything good or bad about a kid's neck, knee, shoulder, arm, wrist, lungs, whatever is at the combine. That's where a lot of things are discovered. That some of these kids play with a lot of ailments. But you got to know if there's something that is going to keep us from drafting this kid, you have to know that. Well, there's also

like the networking aspect outside of it. When they were bubbling up, the medicals were still going to be a part of that, right, It wasn't necessarily a question other than maybe the guys that Jeff was talking about. But there's that networking side between the teams going out to dinner kind of getting they build a player inside as much as they get to see the medal. The fifteen minute the fifteen minute interview is a is a great

tool for you know, getting to know these kids. You know, the better tool is bringing kids on campus here and getting to know them. That's the thing. I think that that's the thing. I think we get the best evaluation of the kid. Which, let me ask you, so this is where my brain goes and we've we've all been to the combine. It's one of our favorite events of the year, and so the NFL basically caved and gave into these changes. So it's going to go off the

way it usually does this year. But it makes me wonder and I think it's an interesting thought because obviously the NFL is clearly interested in the monetization of the combine, like the drills are televised. We've talked for years about the potential to move it to Los Angeles or maybe here. Dallas has been linked to it a lot. But do you feel like a shift away from the importance of

the combine is happening again? Like guys have opted out and it hasn't hurt them of seasons, let alone offseason stuff. Everybody's got a prote You just said that, and it just seems like going along with the idea that you know, players are willing to sit out of their bowl game, players are willing to sit out of the end of the season in this like trend of player empowerment. Do you see a future where like the combines not as

important as it has been for all these years. I think it's definitely possible because we have advances in what you can get information wise anyway, right, like we watch the tape and you're like, all right, that guy's fast, Okay, that guy's quick. Oh okay, that guy's bendy. But now you have I think some teams will view it as things that translate better anyway, Like I don't need your forty time because I have your GPS speed in pads while playing football. I know you're the fastest guy on

the field because we're tracking all of you. You are fast, so I could see it. I think there'll always be value in just knowing how healthy people are and trying to get to know them, which even that part's hard. Yeah, because you're coached players before they get to the combine to sit down with Brian Broadus or the Jaguars or whoever. Like they're coached on how to present themselves and powers

like a job. It's a big job interviews. Yeah, And so you're like, your goal is how healthy is he and is he going to bust his butt to be the best player you possibly can? And you don't know if you're gonna get those answers unless like the college coaches are honest with you and they're your buddies, Like, yeah, I could see the combine either being modified big time or it won't No, no, I take it all back. It will not go away in the league. Won't let it go. It makes too much money. Yeah, it makes

too much money. Yeah, that's why. That's why the bubble's gone, because the league wants to televise their combine and have everybody there. Well, I know for a fact that when you start to like I'll give an example. We talked about Derek Stingley the other day from LSU and the questions you might want to ask Derek Stingley and talking to people at LSU about them about him is and there's questions about Ed Ingram to the Guard as well.

And but with Stingley, the words you're starting to hear is if you if you had if you expect him to be the alpha male of the group, He's not going to be that guy. He's going to need a big brother. He's going to need somebody to help him along. An example that I was given was if Minnesota were to draft him and Patrick Peterson were still at Minnesota,

that would be the ideal situation. But those are the kinds of questions you want to ask Stingley if you're getting information from sources at LSU that are telling you these things about this player, then you want to ask those questions and see how he reacts. And that's where it's important. You know, LSU will tell you he didn't quit, he was legitimately hurt, but they'll also tell you, like you know, this is guy's not an alpha male. He's just not. He's one of those guys that the learning

curve would be a leader and all that. Those are kinds of questions I'd want to ask. To Jeff's point, that's important to me. It's important that I figure out how bad his foot is with that list Frank injury and is it something that I'm always going to have to deal with or and once I get that taken care of, then I want to ask him these questions that I've learned about when I've talked to people at

LSU about him. Just to play Devil's advocate, though, I mean, you can ask him all that stuff if you bring him to you. You know That's what I'm saying, though, But I'd like to know. Maybe maybe it's one of those things where maybe the answers he gives me at the combine, like, man, I don't I don't like this kid's demeanor enough. You know, Sauce Gardener, to me at

Cincinnati came off as a better guy. He's a healthier You know, if you're up there looking at a cornerback at the top of the draft, the reason you're talking to Derek Stanley is because you have a pick to go get him. You know, that's where so if you're looking for a corner. I'm trying to separate, separate these two guys because I know on everybody's board, those touches, those tags are touching. I'm trying to get, Okay, what's the difference between the two. What's making one guy tick?

What's making one guy's health not be as good? You know, those are the kinds of questions I think at the combine. To me, those are the benefits I could do without the workout. I really can. Yeah, I mean, the only thing the workout provides me is like the old krusty scout I am, is that in nineteen ninety two, I can compare numbers to twenty twenty two to nineteen ninety two, and then I have that data. That's the only thing that that's the only thing that that would work, that

would bother people who are really into those numbers. Do you think it's valuable at all that the combine at least gives you excuse me, sorry, the combine at least gives you a baseline, right, absolutely, you know, maybe the field the baseline is the tape, the baselines. Oh you're talking about the numbers. Yeah, like I mean, maybe it's a slow track. But all these we joke about it. Every year. All these guys head off to their pro days and shave to tenths of a second off, no question,

no question, because they roll out of their starts. You know, Mark Gorshack's not there like blowing the whistle and stopping them and all that. And these kids have rested, haven't been pushed and pulled. You know, they're more comfortable in that environment. Running down hill it Ohio State. You know, when you're sitting down their time and at the end you're like, man, that guy looks like he's elevated and

he's coming downhill at you. Those are good times. But she tike them, you know, like I say, the old we're starting to lose, like Lucas oil is different. When we used to go to OURCA Dome or the Hoosier Dome, different track, different facility, different turf and all those things. So the numbers probably don't mean as much as they once did. I just wonder, and I mean, Jeff, you're totally right. I mean, as long as the combine makes money,

it'll be a thing. But like I just think, and you tell me, Brian if you agree with me, like you've been doing this since the early nineties, Like, players just have more power than they ever have. I do, they do. They have a lot more power. And you know there was a time when damon have a first round pick and get to talk to Michael Vick. You know. I mean, now a player would like, you don't have a first round pick, Bro, I'm not talking to you that kind of thing. You know, it's changed a lot.

The agents have a lot of power in this thing too. You know, these players, the Players Association, you know JC Treder and those guys. I mean they come out and say, hey, these guys don't have a voice yet, you know they don't. But players, you know, like I say, these players, we're gonna look at him, We're gonna draft him, We're gonna we're gonna scout him and draft him. But like last year,

we learned. You know, if you can watch film from two years ago and determine how great of a player Michael Parsons was going to be, more power to you, man. That's if that's all you need. All you needs to tape and all you need the ability to evaluate and does he fit in your scheme and can you do other things with him? All the other stuff is just kind of like whatever, you know, the guy could play, he can play. I just think I don't. I think we're in for some sort of shift here over the

next few years. Like that's just the overarching feeling that I get. And I think it's an involuntary thing that was started by the twenty twenty pandemic. I mean it started with the fact that you got COVID. Yep. It started with the fact that you had that combine in twenty twenty. You had it all go normal as the plan, and then immediately the pro days were nixed, the visits

were nixed. All of that goes away, and then the next year you had the pro or you had the combine or nope, combine, but you had all the pro days, so you got to see out of those two classes, which one matters more and if you ask some of these scouts, you ask some of the team other than the medicals at the combine, you really feel like the informational gathering that you once got from the combine you

could get anywhere else along the way. And Jeff made a great point with the GPS and the technology that has advanced in this game, and that's going to only continue to get better and better. It is. It's wild. It's a huge thing these scouting departments in these front offices could use to Some will say that the Cowboys have actually drafted better in the chaos. Yeah, you know, if you think about it, their board picks, their board has been better. When you when you think there's chaos,

just go with your board, you know. That's how you kind of look at those things. Is there going to be chaos this year? I don't know. Without a bunch of quarterbacks, top rated quarterbacks and really not a sure number one, I don't think there will be informational chaos. No, No, But they'll be. They'll be. They'll be, guys, because you have teams to have multiple picks. Yeah, and then we'll look to you know, we'll teams look to go up. We'll teams look to you know, you know, with a

stand there and make picks. You know. I think that's where when you have teams that are holding a lot of cards ahead of you, you're kind of at the mercy of those teams. I think that's where other teams are having to deal with right now. Last thought, the Combine will stick around for a while because Dave, as you know, as a man who has spent a good portion of his career trying to hide in the weeds and see if you can spot people talking to people

as part of your job, I do do that. Yeah, the Combines about all the combine stuff, but it's also about the incredibly rich people at the very top of the NFL getting together and drinking beer and eating steaks. It is almos. They want to hang out with their friends. It matters, It matters to the establishment, and that means it won't go away. That's a very good point. All right, we got into the nuts. We got it. We speaking of the weeds. We got into the weeds of combine talk.

We're going to talk about some prospects that we're going to watch the Combine in the third segment, but before that, we've got your questions coming up at Twitter on the twenty We will be right back to do that. At Smoothie King, we are blending goodness to fuel your grayness. Every blind is crafted to help you achieve your health and fitness goals. Sweete King uses only whole fruits and

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is tax season, Isn't it is yet? Yeah, I'm I'm behind on that. Love me some taxes. I feel like that quitting quitting your job doesn't mean you don't have to file taxes just for whatever that's wor Yeah. I pretty sure I'm a payin this year too. So if anybody out there's got some extra money laying around, I'm gonna need to give it to the government. So just be able to look out for me online and give me your money. There you go. Yeah, be on YouTube.

Welcome back to the Draft Show. You know the drill by Now it's the second segment, which means Twitter on the Twitter, and as usual, we've got a lot of good ones. Jeff, I feel like I want you to answer. I mean you can all answer this obviously, but I'm gonna start with you because be no Ron wants to know skymore. If Tyler Linder bamb Oh and jay Ron Green were both available, would you take Nakobe Dean over them? Kenyan Green? Sorry, oh gee, my Jayron curse was on

your station this morning. I got confused. I'm sorry, it's not my great interview. By the way, I guess it is still my station, and yes, it is still your station for a few more days. Basically a classic. In a classic debate over available guys, like what do you value more between those offensive linemen or Nacoby Dean? All right, coming in hot here, m linder bomb one, I would take the center number one, Kenyon Green number two, Nakobe Dean number three. Nakobe Dean might be as good or

better than the other two at their jobs. But man, people are not gonna like to hear this. Because Michael Parsons has been so good. I'm taking an offensive lineman that I love over all, linebacker that I love all day, every day, Oh all day every day. Does that mean that you would still take Slater over Parsons. I refuse to answer that question. It's a push. It doesn't matter, just you couldn't go wrong. But Parsons is different because

Parsons is more than a linebacker exactly. Nakobe Dean is not going to line up at defensive end and get you and have the highest pass rush win rate in the NFL. Not gonna happen. Michael Parsons is a freak show. Nakobe Dean is an awesome linebacker, and I'd love him at twenty four. But if you told me that you have a great center prospect and a great guard prospect, I'm going the center, the guard, then the linebacker. It's the same argument that we had last year. At least

we're consistent and the way we're talking about it. But yeah, it's exactly right. And Brian said this on multiple occasions. If you could have told me going into that draft that Michael Parsons was going to be what Michael Parsons was this year and the way that he was able to be utilized in a versatility standpoint, then you can talk about taking him over Rashawn's later because you're taking an edge rusher at that point. However, I'm right there

with Jeff. I'm the exact order. Linderbaum Green, then Nakobe Dean. But this also brings up a question for me. I was watching Devin again yesterday out of Utah linebacker. Does he go before Nakobe Dean? He will on some boards because he's six three. I think so too. I would bet on Nakobe Dean as the player over Devin Lloyd. But I would bet on Devin Lloyd being drafted before Nakobe d I agree with you. I have him one two or I have Dean one, I have Lloyd two.

But I could see Lloyd going quicker in front of that, and then maybe you get a conversation about that later on. You agree with that assessment, Brian, those three players, Linderbaum, Dean Green for me, so you go Dan over, Yeah, why because I feel like there's some second round guards that are capable players. And the thing about it is, I think there's some capable second round linebackers too, some guys that you could plug in and play. I mean,

we've mentioned Harris, we mentioned Clark. You know, those are the types of guys that you're you're probably being a looking at right there. But I you know me personally, like I say, I think there's things with Green. You know, to me, I still hold hope. I still hold hope if I don't get my guard, that they'll come to the realization that they need to move Lyle Collins. That's my hope and that's my protection. And I don't have a really good answer at linebacker right now for you.

I don't. That's why I have to go grab Dean. Sure, And but the interesting thing about what we've just did with that exercise. Two of the three guys at physical limitations with like lack of size and height, but are

really really good football players. Yeah. So, I mean that's probably why you're sitting there looking in and potentially at twenty four, because if they were a little bit bigger, a little bit more taller, if they were Lloyd's size or height, then we probably wouldn't be talking about Dean at twenty four. This is an open ended question from Drew. You can take it whatever direction you want. Stop twenty twenty two draft picks that you feel would get more

out of Micah Parsons. Oh, defensive tackles George Davis Jones at Yukon Federian Mathis Alabama. I figured defensive tackles would be the answer. Yeah. Is there is there another spot? Is there another position? Yeah? That's because Parsons could go rush the passer. That's that's what I would say. I mean, you talk about the defensive tackles and stuff like that, But where where Michael Parsons absolutely wreck your game? Is

this a pass rusher? You know? So to me, if I if I knew that I had somebody that I could put in his spot that could run and tackle like he does. And while I put him down, you know, say he doesn't get to the quarterback, but the ball gets out and now I got na Kobe Dean running at football to make a play. Absolutely, that's a that's the that's the route you need to go. This defense would be fun as hell if Michael Parsons and the

Kobe Dean and Jabril Cox all played for it. And I'm saying, you got guys that can cover, and you got guys that can run, and you got guys that finish. God, nobody would get seven yards down the field now, just be a straight wall across the way. I wouldn't I wouldn't bet on it. Yeah, Kyle wants to know if you were to draft Tyler, why did you just say as I could have just asked here? Didn't even think about that. I'm sad I'm not the host, Kyle not Yeoman's. Yeah,

why are you tweeting me? Bro? You got my phone number? Kyle not Yeoman's wants to know if you were to draft Tyler Linderbaum, what do you do with Tyler Beatis? Could he play guard? Or do you just all of a sudden have a very quality backup center. You have a backup center there. Yeah, I don't. I don't answer, is you don't care? Yeah, Like he's on the roster and that's cool. Yeah, I'll be there for another two years.

You know, you're always figured out. The one thing that's happened with this offensive line, and we all saw it with our own eyes, that was a problem last year. They didn't block well enough, they didn't protect well enough. You know, whether that's them, the line coach, whoever. They need to upgrade a couple of spots, and they might be a little trouble at left tackle on age and health. The right guard we talk about all pro and maybe there's a little bit of slippage going on there north

of thirty. Yeah, and then you know with the right accle, you know, I mean there was some slippage going on there as well. He didn't he missed a bunch of games because he got suspended, you know. So yeah, I mean the questions you have, you know, you should you shouldn't be afraid to replace anybody over there. You know, if you're looking at that thing and being honest with yourself, you didn't run the ball, you didn't protect it affected the way you moved the football, affected the way the

play caller called the game. You know, couldn't go to some things he probably wanted to because he couldn't get the you know, they couldn't run the football. So yeah, don't worry about anybody's feelings on that offensive line. You need to figure that thing out. And just from a pure roster building standpoint in numbers game, look over the last two seasons twenty twenty, you had Joe Looney and

Tyler Beiottish. This past year you had Tyler Biottish and insert name here, it was either Connor Williams or Josh McGovern. Connor McGovern, I mean there was really nobody there, Yeah, Farniac, I mean you felt better about your center situation when you had two guys there. So if you wanted to keep Tyler Beottish around, replace him, but don't don't feel like you have to deal him. Just have him there,

have him as a quality backup. We've already seen the revolving door of an offensive line the last two years as well, speaking to Brian's point, and having somebody there that has that starting experience is going to be valuable moving forward, especially if they're on a rookie deal, which Tyler Beiottish will be for two more years. I say, I say it all the time, but people are so afraid of having depth because they feel like they're not

making the most of an opportunity. I would just I'll take the depth, like ninety nine times out apecially upfront. Dogs lead the way. We've talked about all of these players. Awg Ordo just just the animal. Dogs lead the way. Georgia guy, No, no, that makes sense here, Washington. I think the Twitter abbey was actually a like a beagle. I think he just likes dogs. Okay, um or she or she we've talked about all these players, but he

or she wants us to sort them out. All safeties Daxton Hill out of Michigan, chick On Brisker out of Penn State, Lewis Seene out of Georgia, Jalen Petrie out of Baylor, stack him for me, somebody, it was almost in order. Mine would be Daxton Hill, as a guy who is a borderline first round sort of player at Michigan, he would be Well, I guess Petrie's not big either. I was gonna say he's the small one. Of this group. But he's also the one that, holy cow, can he

fly and can play Nicol can play safety. Whatever Brisker is, Jiquan Brisker at Penn State is a dude that I really like while acknowledging, like I'm watching him and I'm like, is he an elite athlete? No? Is he? Like whatever you're looking for? Is the elite trade? I'm like no, It's like, what's he bad at? No? So like, okay, okay,

that's a starting NFL safety. So I would go Daxton Hill, then Jaquon Brisker, then Jalen Petrie, then Lewis Scene, the Georgia's Safety, and I think all of them are picked in the first sixty picks. He's absolutely right the order he had absolutely right, nailed it. Oh what's up now? Anybody want peace? Yeah? Damn, who, Kyle? You gonna argue with that? I was. I was hoping we were gonna have a fight. A question. I've got Hill, Brisker, Scene, Petree.

But they're all touching tags. It's literally two through five for me. You think they all go top sixty. I would think he's right about so maybe Brisker doesn't because he's an old man, like I think he's twenty three and he's a red shirt except twenty three by drafting. Okay, except if you're Terrence Newman, who they told us was too old and he played like twenty years. Good point, Brian. I just so, have you watched more Hamilton yet? Do you still hate him? Okay? Cool? I mean, well, you

just he's probably not. He's getting picked in the top ten, right, So you have Kyle Hamilton as a likely top ten and then these guys all start going somewhere between like twenty five and forty. Yeah, I think so, and they're all gone by sixty. I've said this a couple of times in this show. I thought that that Dax Hill was the Cowboys pick at twenty four. That's before I really got into the draft. I mean I was. He

was one of the first safeties. Him and Hill were the first two, and I kind of thought, Okay, this guy fits the profile of what you want in a safety. He can cover on the outside, he can blitz, you know, he could play down in the box, he could play back. I just thought a versatility. I thought of Dan Quinn. You know, this is really kind of with not knowing maybe thinking that dan Quinn was going to take the

Denver Broncos job. But I kind of felt like that, if you know, if they got to carry over, if there's some of the similar coaches, that maybe they would use Dax Hill as that type of players. So, yeah, I think where you're talking about right around twenty four on back as when we're gonna start seeing these guys

come off the board. Do you think the fact that Jay wren Curson, at least he was on your station earlier today talking about a potential return with dan Quinn coming back, if he's back, does that affect anything at all to I think that. To me, it's about players and number money. This guy didn't make money. You know, you can't sit there and say I'm gonna be loyal. Now. Randy Gregory will tell you that he's loyal to Jerry and Stephen in the family for what they've done to him.

But how loyal are you? Twelve million dollars a year loyal? Thirteen million dollars a year loyal? How loyal? But if someone offers him sixteen eighteen million dollars, yeah, you gotta go do what you gotta do. So to say that dan Quinn being here helps, sure, but these guys have got to go out and make money that they don't have. They have a very limited opportunity to do that. Jeron Curse has the potential to get a signing bonus this spring that is larger than all of his career earnings

over the last like six years. What is his market value like one point five or something like that? Not anymore? I would say, I would say I bet the two year, ten million dollars deal the totality of his deal. Yeah, yeah, five or three for fifteen I was I was thinking something like three for fifteen, three for eighteen. I could see that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean talk a sixth round pick who signed a one million dollars deal last year. Like in the world of the NFL, he has not

made a ton of money. Yeah, but if you when you study all the top fifty free agents and stuff going places and stuff, he's not ever in that mix the top five. Think he's probably he's played like a guy that deserves to be paid because he had played this year for the last three years, he would be

in everybody's top fifties. I just think the world doesn't realize it because he's never been there like he was never a starter, and I do have that year consistently they talk about you for Pro Bowls and your market's huge. I think he was probably an alternate for the Pro Bowl if I had to guess. So, Yeah, to your point, um, I do think sometimes you overvalue the guys that you watched all year and you're like, oh, like, he was amazing. It's a tough position though. Yeah, he didn't play as

a true safety. He played really all over and the fact that he created turnovers was tackling. Well, you know, was really a leader out there. I mean, there's a lot of a lot of really positive things you can talk about him, because I think coming out of Clemson, I know I didn't think all that. I didn't think he could cover and be all that that he has. I don't think you need to apologize because the league thought that too. He was a sixth round pick at the end of the day. Ye, Javier Brian, I made

sure you had watched him. Javier wants to know about Leo Chanal, the Wisconsin linebacker. Yeah, this guy's a throwbacks linebacker in the way he plays. He's six two, he's two fifty two. We were talking about last week. The guys that potentially could be that Mike linebacker. This guy's it. He's a physical guy. He's a downhill player. He's always attacking the line of scrimmage. He makes his share of plays just right at or behind the line of scrimmage. In the way he plays, he can finish when he

gets around the ball, he's gonna wrap up. He's gonna make sure tackles most every single time. I love the way he works through traffic. You know, he does things usually to engage. It's usually quick to get rid of the blocker and then get to the ball. The burst is there. He's got the ability to get on the quarterback quickly rushing from that linebacker position. So I don't see much of coverage with this guy because I think it's all underneath stuff. For him, it's kind of drops,

sit in a zone and then react that way. So I felt like he was better when he could try and attack the pocket. The effort, the motor all that's great. So you know, if you like a player that's got instincts, awareness, is super physical, and he's the type of guy. Again, I kind of see him as a mic linebacker only because I really don't know how much you can really really play him in coverage. By the way, Chanelle Chanelle, Sorry, I knew I didn't have that. Now I got you.

I'll get it. I'll get it. Remember that's my role. Jeff told me that. I think I think twenty years ago he'd have been drafted a lot higher than he's gonna get drafted. Yeah, it's a different game. Yeah, big strong, forward playing man, I will say, So he's got out. So you you just described like a fourth round player. I having the third third, Okay, yeah, I'll actually have Walker from Georgia Tyndale from Georgia ahead of him as

my inside linebacker. Guys just out of curiosity and we all, I mean, one of the things you hear first when you start talking about the draft is scout the player, not the helmet. But is there a balance there where you and obviously you're not going to draft Leo'shanelle in the first round, but you look at it and you say, Okay,

a Wisconsin linebacker. He's probably pretty smart and tenacious and gets to the football, you know, like you just you kind of that's their m and you're like, yeah, these guys know how to produce like quality NFL linebackers, Like is there something to be said for that? Or is

that dangerous? I think that you know, to me, when there are certain positions and certain teams that you didn't want, You never wanted to Penn State running back, there was a time there where you didn't want a Mississippi State defensive tackle anymore. Yeah, but ye, that's what I'm saying. Sometimes the narrative changes on these players. But I think what happens with Wisconsin, and they've done a much better

job because their team's better. There was a time when Wisconsin before Barry Alvarez wasn't great in football, and they were always lucky to have one or two guys that were really really good, that were tough and hard nose and all that. That's kind of always been the mo about their team. They just had better players. Now they've they've gotten better as you know, as again through the Barry Alvarez era and stuff, they've they've found a way

to scout better guys. And I think when you watched when you watch Wisconsin and you watch this kid play, you appreciate how tough he is. But Jeff's right, he probably goes higher, you know, ten twelve years ago because of what he is. He's a mic linebacker. That's really all he is. But if you want a tough one, that's a good one to have. You can still make a living doing that. Absolutely, ask Anthony Hitchins. Ye probably

better cover guy Anthony Hitchins. Yeah, I mean Anthony Hitchins has had a long and productive career as a fourth round pick. Clearly he's figured our guys. Chanel views the forward pass as a trick play. Wait, what is happening? I thought we were going to meet up and smash each other another. What would you do? From Christian? He wants you to debate. I don't think your answer is going to be be on this one. I think it's gonna be a because A is George karloftis and B

is Zion Johnson. Oh, I just think. I mean, we went over this last weekend window dress. Your board and my board would tell you that's Zion Johnson there, and that's George Karloftas there, and that's a tie. Ladies and gentleman. Literally even see, I think you tell me if I'm crazy. I like Zion Johnson. I think more than a lot of people do. I think that he is going to be a step in starter at guard and I think

he's going to be really, really good forever. I just don't get the impression, mainly because of the position that he plays. I think Karloftis doesn't hang around that long. Well, here's the thing, here's the thing, mister Hellman, Okay, tell me. Hutchinson goes before him, Thibodeau goes before him. Those are top ten guys. Crayvon Walker goes in the top fifteen. Everybody's saying, Jermaine Johnson after the Senior Bowl, could he go before Karloftis. Maybe David Ojabo. A lot of people

are telling me, will go before George Karloftus. There is a chance that Karloftus is like the sixth or seventh edge off the board fair that can't make twenty four. Now it can, No, it definitely can. And like I'm not, I'm not like, oh, just forget about it. It's it ain't gonna happen. I just I lean toward thinking he won't be there. I don't know, Brian, what do you think I kind of have? I would take Karloftis over a matter of fact, I have ed Ingram over Scion Johnson.

Oh on my guardboard. That's sexy, is what I do. And I know people are gonna say it's an LSU deal, It's really not. It's it's a it's a situation where ridiculous and I'm just looking at better football players, is what I'm looking at. Jeff get out and they see. That's the thing about it is that you know, absolutely you got that, no problem. The I think the thing I think the thing was on Johnson. I think people were pumping air in him. I really do. I think there.

I think he's a good player. I think if you're you're thinking about him coming in plug and play and all that, I think he's going to struggle there. I don't think there's any nasty, real nastiness to his game. And I think that's the biggest, biggest problem I have with him is I don't see a great finisher with this guy. I watch ed Ingram play and some of these other guards. There's finished there. There's guys getting into their blocks, second level blocks, you know, knocking guys on

the ground. You know, stuff like that, good pass set, knee bend, power, strength, all those things. I just think I think everybody has pumped a lot of Aaron Zion Johnson myself. That's just and enjoy the Pro Bowls. If your team takes Zion Johnson, be happy. He's going to start at left guard for you. He's going to make the Pro Bowl in his second or third year, and you're gonna be really happy. So you're gonna be thrilled. I think Johnson's a good player. Did you did what? Okay?

So let me ask him a real quick question here. So how close do you have him in Green? Green? Is a real life first round kind of guy. Zion I have in the one two cheater great area where it's like pick him in the twenties. Okay, So you have carlottas in the one two cheater great area too. Yeah, I think I have a true first on Carlotta. I haven't been the first round too. Sezily put him as

as the winner of that. I think it's a great question because it goes back to what your needs are at twenty four and if that, I mean, that was what the scenario was, right, who would you take? I mean there's a chance that you would want to lean guard kind of like what we were saying earlier. If something were to pop up that way. But I think Carloptus in that scenario is the much further advanced, more lethal player. So I would take him ten times out of ten. Add at Ingram and Zion Johnson to the

I just say you need to talk White. I just say you need to take a look at at Ingram. Yeah, I really really do, because to me, to me would have a nice Senior Bowl. No, I mean, that's what I'm saying. This guy, this guy is he you know, he's one of those guys that, to me, I watch a powerful guy. I watch a guy that plays with technique as a good bass you know all that when you watch. The biggest problem that Zion Johnson has is when his head goes down. He's a terrible football player,

and that happens to him quite a bit. So to me, I'm I'm kind of I'm you know, when you can talk about the Pro Bowls and all those things. Yeah, maybe maybe you're gonna be right about that. I'm bet and you're gonna be wrong. What's a good bet. I'll bet against at Ingram too, and I'll bet whatever you want because if we all these players will win way more than we lose. Yeah, I got one more that I really like from Eric uh It's Cowboys Draft one oh one that they have not really drafted small school

prospects in Will mcclay's tenure. I think Reggie Robinson out of Tulsa and all the Boise guys are really the closest that they've gotten. I guess Tristan Hill. Neither one of those are really small school guys. You're still Outain West Conference, right, thank you? So with that in mind, is there a small school guy and if you want to if you want to do group of five, that's fine, but you can go FCS whatever you want. People are talking about Pinning the tackle from Northern Iowa, first name

that comes to my mind. Yeah, I mean I would draft that guy without hesitation. And Raymond from Ramon Raymond from the kid the tackle from the European fella. Yeah, I mean Central Central Michigan. Yeah. Jalan Tilbert, wide receiver, South Obama. Yeah. Nicholas Zachel Fordham offensive tackle as a developmental prospect Fordham Foredom. See that, I start I start to get scared when I hear Fordham. I don't know,

he's not like a first or second round guy. Sure, he's a guy you could take later in the draft didn't feel pretty good about, and they saw him at the Senior Bowl. So if it kind of goes back to the conversation we had previewing the Senior Bowl, is if they're going to take a small school guy, most likely they've seen him up close and personal, either immobile at the combine with a potential interview there or during

Dallas day of one of the visits. If they do it, I would bet it would be a Senior Bowl play exactly. I don't know if I've mentioned him I have, I don't. I doubt y'all have watched Dominique Robinson out of Miami, Ohio. Oh, I did, I really. I was really impressed by what he did in mobiles. That's like a guy that's sort of like hanging around on the on the periphery of my radar. He tore up my North Texas mean Green in the bowl game. I saw it a close in person.

Tolbert's a good aim by the way for that wide receivers spile Bam. Yeah, he seemed like he really turned a lot of heads. Now he sure did. He's gonna I mean I think that, you know again, don't don't pay attention to speed, pay attention to the plays he makes down the field because he's gonna lack he's gonna lack some speed. But the guy does separate, I mean's and he catches every ball thrown this direction. So it's a good name, all right. That does it for Twitter

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United dot Dallas Cowboys dot com today. That so, that sale is starting on Thursday and only lasting over the weekend, So take note. So get here United dot Dallas Cowboys dot com. You heard it here first. Okay, so we spent the first segment of this show talking about how weird and different the combine might be. But let's just operate in a world where everyone's going to do all of the fun stuff and give us football related things

to watch. I would love to just get a shortlist from y'all about guys you're excited to see or guys you're curious to see. You know, we talk about whether it's, oh, this guy needs to have a great three cone, or maybe he's not going to have such a great three cone, whatever it might be. I would just like to hear some names that you're interested in seeing, assuming everybody works out this week. I'm kind of interested in these cornerbacks

just because I think they're all pretty close. I think Gardner, Stingley, McDuffie are all pretty close in the way they play. You could throw McCrary in there, elam Booth. I mean, this is a good list of cornerback acts. I'm interested to see how they all interact with each other. I'm interested in seeing the movement. I'm interested in seeing the numbers that they get out of that stuff with the

shuttles and things that kind of tells me something. The three cone stuff, the short shuttle things that you know, those those are those are always very interesting to me. But I do think it's a pretty close group. I think that these um I think these edge rushers need to separate themselves too. And what I have a feeling that Jobo is probably going to work out the best,

but he's probably the rost of all the group. So and Jeff has told me, because he's seeing Karloftis work out with his own eyes or move around, that maybe it's not going to be great. And I wonder if the narrative coming out of India is going to be this guy stiff and he can't do this, can't do that? Is there aj epanessa potential with Karloftus because remember I mean around this time, I just bring him up because he had a terrible combine. Yep, it's fair because of that.

And I don't think Karlofta is going to have a great combine, but I think i'm tape. They're infinitely different. Epinessa was what two eighty five super long, like that was his game. Karloftas plays like he's a really good athlete. Yeah, like he's just in there, just banging through. So if he goes out and he tests poorly, it's gonna knock him more so than maybe even in Epinessa. I guess it.

I guess in theory it could um. But he's just one of those dudes that karl offts to me his tape is too good to knock him out of the first round. It's just it's too good. But we could come out of the combine and people but oh, he's a quote bad athlete. He's uh not long, he doesn't have long arms. He's a bad athlete. Holy cow, we can't pick that in the first round. I will, it's

about I will. Yeah, one of those situations where you're like, sure, pushing please, sitting down the boar, see what's gonna happen too? And it is with these defensive tackles. If Jordan Davis ends up running like a four nine four or wrote something like that, I've heard it's possible. See that's what

I'm saying, and all of a sudden knocks. That's where one day, you know, one day we're all gonna be sitting there and we'll be doing a draft show and we're gonna get those numbers and the yeah, you ran four nine four or four nine eight something like that, and you're gonna go at that weight and it's gonna and it's gonna again. We're gonna just shoot a bunch of air or the people will shoot a bunch of air into well. Man, he's not gonna be there at

twenty four. He's gonna and then we'll start the Vita Vea comparisons and all that stuff like that, and it's not the same player. So I think you have to be kind of mindful of really what these guys are. If you have the opportunity to study these guys, however you do it, hook or crook. You know, just take a look and kind of know when this guy plays, that's what he is. You know. If he runs really really well or he doesn't run really well, really well,

don't kill them for that. Just trust your eyes on that tape that you saw a really really good football player or you didn't see a good football player at the combine. I'm interested in seeing the men from Michigan name Central Michigan. Well three of them from the univers the University of Wolverines. Hail to the victors. I played sky Moore again. Well yeah, always sky More. Yes, I'm more Skymore, ye sky Listen. If this team ended up with ed Ingram and Skymore would be and Clips would

throw so many pizza parties. Okay, I got I got a tomahawk chop riding on this thing because he knows I paid a tomahawk chop before for stupidity. Bet I didn't. I didn't take this question for Twitter on the twenty, but somebody asked about Somebody asked who the pizza party player is? It's Skymore. Write that down. I already forgot what school we going to, Western Michigan, Western Mission one of the two seconds. Well, yeah, and set them in

from Michigan. Then I started naming us Guy Moore's colleague. My memory has to be it's almost in real time. Things fade away in real time. Can I can I ask a question? Can you sort these wide receivers out at the combine or is it going to be a problem. Is Wilson gonna Is Wilson gonna solidify himself as the number one guy for the wide receiver crook? Could you

want a bold prediction on that? I think if all the guys do all the things that it would be more likely Garrett Wilson has people raising eyebrows skeptically than going, oh really, I bet he runs in the four fives. He might. I don't think he's I don't think he's real life NFL wide receiver fast. I think he's good and explosive and accelerates. I knew I could can on you he's real life fast. Tell me if this is a hot take, like I Traylan Burks might out run

Grett will he will? There's there's a couple of receivers that are going to outrun him. He sees one. I think sky Moore will outrun him. I think there's a ton of guys. You've seen Burkes in person, right? Is he two hundred and twenty five pounds? Um? He might be now when when you saw him first he was two forty one. It's none of your businessess, Listen, when seasons end and you go to show up for your training. But but you're showing up for your training. I mean

you and I do radio every day about Luca. That was very delicately, said Jeffrey, very delicately. Yeah. I think he showed up to his training with some training to Okay, let me ask him that he'll go from running like a four to six to four the last month and this month receiver? Man, could Burkes come out of this thing being the number one receiver? I think for some people, because I think that he will Steve Samuel training, that's what they're talking about three two twenty five ish, and

I think he can get into the four fours. Uh. And you like, I don't even know his comp Like it's something between Debo A. J. Brown and DK Metcalf. Something must think. I know something is crazy? You know you're good with that? Is it? Is it a hot take? If I think receiver is very very high on the list of positions where I basically don't care what you do at the combine, like I want to see, like if you're assue running like a four to nine, I

don't care. Okay, within reason, Yeah, Like I care less about quarterbacks myself at the even the throwing side of Yes, maybe I do. And I didn't say receiver was the only position I don't care about. I just do. I care least about her. I actually linebacker and running back fair because they don't have direct opponents in football, you so take those positions anyways. Well kind of. But also like a wide receiver, is it relevant if you're faster or not than the guy who's literally standing right in

front of you to cover you? Of course it is. For a running back, is it relevant if you're faster than pick a player on the defense? No, not at all in any way, shape or form. Because I don't have a direct opponent that I have to run past. I just think the tape should tell me everything I need to know about what a receiver can and can't do, Like can you get behind the cornerback? Can you get create separate quarterbacks in the same way? Yeah? Because to me,

the quarterbacks. You're at the mercy of who you're throwing the ball too. If your last name starts with a B, then you're likely throwing with a B and C depending on who those receivers are. Sometimes, yeah, exactly. Sometimes you get a run of really good receivers you get to throw the balls too. And then other times you're throwing the balls to guys that you're like, why is this guy here? Why is this guy here? It's kind of a thing. So all of a sudden you don't look

as good because the route's not as good. The balls there, you get a drop, and all of a sudden you're like, mad, he is that a drop because of the receivers? That a drop because of a bad throw? And by the way, the pro day at the at the school, that does nothing for me either. Wow. Just let me watch the tape of a quarterback. Let me watch every single throw, and I could tell you generally if the guy's going to be a good player. I wanted to follow up

with you about what you said about the cornerbacks. The prevailing logic right now seems to be that it's Sauce Gardener out of Cincinnati and Derek Stingley out of LSU. Don't forget our kids at Washington. Let me finish the damn point. So again, the prevailing logic is that there's like a line and then you go Trent mcduffey, I don't know if there's a line. You answered my question for me, so yeah. I wanted to ask, do you think mcduffey has a real chance to kind of climb

into that? Absolutely? Do Yeah. If you I mean, you sound like you think he's already there. I think he's already there. I mean, he's one of my If you talk about the three guys, to me, it's Gardner, Stingley, McDuffie. Those are my three guys. Wouldn't be surprised if McDuffie were picked for Stingley. I wouldn't be surprised at all, just because I think teams are gonna have enough questions.

I think Stingley and McDuffie's tape is good enough and recent enough that you're like, hey, what do we think about picking one we trust more. I'm biased, obviously I'm biased, but I think Stingley's one of the more interesting prospects in the first round because I could see him going forth or twenty fourth, Like, neither one of those would shock me. I don't think he gets really past probably fourteen or so myself. There's that run where the you know,

maybe the Eagles or somebody like that. They've got teams, you know, they've got the multiple picks just to to talent of a player. Now, if you again, you you if you're worried about the non alpha male and you're worried about maybe a potential with the foot problems, you know, those are the types of things you're gonna have to deal with. Do you think he runs in Indie? He's not ready. He's only running straight ahead right now from what I heard, he's not ready to run. Yeah, he's

not really ready to run. That's kind of a bummer. He ran a four to three in a high school combine and he'll run an l shoe and he'll go really fast. Yes, that's my fair. My man would have been top three. I think he would have been top five sure if he had been able to go pro

after twenty nineteen. The other name, just by the way that we saw at the Senior Bowl that I think is going to run a really quick uh forty of going back to wide receivers, even though I know you said you don't care about wide receivers at the combine. But Calvin Austin, the third out of Memphis, little slot receiver, that dude's gonna fly in Indy. He may be the quickest out of the bunch or tiny guys Dale Robinson. Oh yeah, sky Moore will fly those that those could

be the top three or four guys gonna fly. And that's my guy. You don't think so if he's gonna fly, and that's I think he's gonna fly. Are we setting ourselves up for four twos? Baby? No, sir, I'm setting myself up for forty times. Do not define football players. Sky Moore's badass because he has lightning quick feet in his hell after the balls and his tapes really good. I mean, I just just kind of think he's a slot player myself. Damn right he is. Where does Cooper

Cup play? Is that a problem? Is that a problem? Not a problem? You want Cooper Cup to line up outside him? Asually? I know I don't hate Cooper. That was the one guy, that's one guy on this show that like Cooper Cup. My god, are you doing I'm not only guy I can't pick him too hot. I didn't say the Cooper Cup was a slot only guy is well, I didn't say that. You did what he is? Well, he plays outside too, Yeah, is he a slot only

he's a backstack in the slot motion through the backfield. Yes, I think he could probably play out there if they wanted him. Let's see, he's just really good in the slot. It's just a good football player. No, I'm laugh I'm just laughing because I'm imagining Saturday of draft weekend. Whatever.

I don't know that not all the picks are finalized, but like whenever the Cowboys pick in the fourth round, like they won't pick sky More and then Jeff, you'd got bad news for you, bro the third round whatever, getting picked in the thirties. I just like watching Jeff get indignant when his pet cats slide. Damn right, it's a favorite was slide or Darius Washington last year? Hey listen, he couldn't help to use five sous five eight. I was at least fair about that when I was like, look,

I love him. There's no chance he gets drafted on the first two days because he's dying. He didn't get drafted at all, Right, No, he didn't, but he made the fifty three. But he did. There's nothing worse than work in a draft for three days and they go, well, who's your best available? And you said the same guy for the last two and a half hours yesterday, steal him going ask Dane, He'll tell you. I'm not talking trash about sky More. I want to be clear about that.

Where are you? No? I just called him a fourth rounder just now. I mean he did say that. What's what is I'm looking at him like what Dane, Dane, our buddy Dane Brugler had him like in the he had him in the top one hundred, right, yeah, but where he had him is wrong? Yeah, eighty five or so I had it pulled up. Um, I remembering that wrong? But he's wrong, just like Brian probably is going to say that he's wrong. He has ed Ingram eightieth and

that's wrong. Right, No, what, no, it's not wrong? Than you can't no, no, no, no, no, no, don't check this out. Skymore is seventy nine, Okay, Ingram is eighty Okay, Dan Dane has missed at Ingram then, okay, that's what draft me. I'm sorry, that's wrong. I mean you would draft at Ingram And did you say you would draft him twenty fourth or second round? Okay? Yeah, top top fifty, okay, top fifty. So he said over Zion, jo, I don't have Zion. I don't have Johnson the first rounds, right,

that's right, that's my thing, all right. I mean I could ask y'all for more names. Well, we've got another show to do Thursday, Ryan Tim, Oh god, that was actually pretty good. We do this show too early in the morning for me to be able to keep up with you some films. All right, we're done, we're signing off the show. We can talk more combine on Thursday. I hope this was as informative for you as it was entertaining for us. I don't know. Thanks for joining me, guys,

this this was the draft show. That's Jeff. We'll talk to y'all next time. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. Shout