Draft Show: Combine Winners & Losers; D-Law's Trade Value

here at the Star in Frisco. After a very successful combine in Indianapolis, we're all back here to talk about it as the big Boys guy, says Brian brought us here with David Hellman, Dane Brugler, Kent Garrison, executive producing guys. Another combine in the books. Time for the Draft show to put a bow on it. I also want to tease something else. You need a little Twitter on the twenty, sure, because I always want to do that, definitely, But I'm also going to ask you, guys, how we're gonna trade

an impact player in the National Football League. We're gonna go through that and impact player in the National Football League who could that be? Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna try and talk about the pros and cons of maybe trying to move a guy. I don't know. I don't know, Like I don't go back and don't talk much about it, Dave, No, No No, I just I don't go back through the archives and listen the way Brian does. Like Brian goes

back and re listens to all of our shows. Every show. Um, I would bet my life that we have a show like this every every single year where Brian's like, let's do something crazy. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, Well, I've got my guys in the room and we're gonna figure this thing out. We'll figure it out. We're gonna figure it out. I've got I've got some pros, I've got some cons. But we're gonna we're gonna see if it's worth it to

you out there to move a particular player. With that being said, though, I do want to put a bow on this combine Dane Brugler, and I want to start with you because you are on this from the word go. Now you've done a great job of always covering the combine. I appreciate your efforts, the talents, the ability you have. So when you tell me combine winners and combined losers, I pay attention. And that's a guy, it's a twenty

seven year veteran in the National Football League. So with that, tell me some guys that caught your eye that you you know, you study the tape, you understand this league. Who are some guys that helped themselves in this combine? And what I like to do is have three categories leaving and combine winners, losers, and shoot, I need to go back to the tape. Yeah, and there were plenty

of guys in each category this year. The winners, I think we start with Montest Sweat, who okay, tape check production only Josh Allen has more sacks the last two years from Kentucky than Montest Sweat. So production, check, testing, double check, highlight bold. I mean, he blew up the combine with what he did four four one and the forty yard dash, and look, the forty is great. I care about the ten yards split, the three cone and that's where he blew it up. In the ten yards split.

That's comparable to Antonio Brown, Jalen Ramsey. Uh, the seven flat and the three cones a great time. So Montes Sweat went from a mid first round pick too. I'd be shocked if he gets out of the top eight picks. So all of a sudden, now in mock drafts, David Hellman, Yeah, this name is gonna be pushed up the board, isn't it. Well, he already got that push at the Senior Bowl, which but you know, we've proud of him for going to do with the Senior Bowl stuff too. Yeah. Absolutely, he's

been a good been a good rise for him. He's killing this whole thing. And there's always a guy that succeeds at the Senior Bowl who kind of falls back down to where he should be. Right, this is not that guy. Yeah, he's uh, he's yeah, I mean and yeah, I mean I think we've known, you know, since January that he would be a first round pick. I wasn't convinced he would be a top ten pick. But sure as hell, looks like we're not falling in love with a guy just because he's worked out. Well, the tape

is good for this guy, right, What did Dan just say? Yeah? No, absolutely, no, I'm I didn't mean to come out you No, No, that's the draft show. That's what you do, you come after you. I'm gearing up for our conversation about to be intact. But back in December, I did a top fifty board. I did a preseason board and then I updated it in December. Monthest what was top ten on that board. So there you go. Not a big surprise that he's been but he did make himself some money,

so he qualifies as a winner. How do you think he did on the interviews? Well, and that is a big question for him because he spent he spent two years at Michigan State right in the doghouse, right, he was a tight end back then he was young. I heard positive things in the Senior Bowl how he did, and then I did not hear anything specifically about the combine. But I think we're trending away from that discussion when

it comes to Montest Sweat. So no, Charlie Castley, I'm gonna scar trying to say my job now, maybe with a different pass rusher, but not with monthest Sweat. I think, okay, there all right, A couple of winners go to the greatest rivalry in sports, Michigan. Ohiuse State from Michigan. I think Rashaun Garry had all the buzz in terms of the Michigan defenders, but it was David Long the corner

who really impressed. Four four five and the forty solid time, the three cone six four five, that's a silly time going back to the last two decades, it's the fourth best ever at any position, So that's pretty good. And this is a guy who he did well in the positional stuffs. His hips, his movements and reverse looked really smooth. So I think David Long helped himself. He's a guy on tape who doesn't have a lot of action. Yeah, plays physical, sometimes too physical, a lot of man coverage

in a Don Brown defense. But I thought, you know, teams are question okay because he played a lot of outside right and he moving in nickel, hold up in space. I think he answered those concerns with how he worked out. Boy a good looking group of guys on David Hillman. You see how tall all those cats were, Yeah, all

moving around out there. Yeah. Well, And going back to the rivalry Michigan Ohio State, Paris Campbell for Campbell, and it really comes down and not just Paris Campbell, the all three Ohio state receivers were blazing in the forty Johnny Dixon was the four fors, Terry McLaurin was four

three five, and then Paris mccampbell four three one. And the big thing with Campbell is he looked really good in the downfield routes he did, drill he did and everything you watched it Ohio State generally underneath, horizontal he was in. He was in that Percy Harvin roule that each back he was a lot of underneath stuff, a lot of comebacks, a lot of cross there's a lot of jet sweeps, bubbles, tunnel screens, those kinds of things. So to see him down the field tracking the football, uh,

looked really smooth in his routes. That's a big step for him. I'm working on a mock draft right now. It'll be out on Monday, Paris. Campbell is going to be in that first round, which, okay, I'm glad I've been out of pet and we didn't have many first round receivers. Now we're talking about it at all. Where we've been debating this whole time. Mock draft though, Right,

how do you feel about these guys? Yeah? No, but in back in Indie I said I didn't feel like a lot of people were talking about this guy, right, Yeah, yeah, I didn't think first round though, Like that's when you're that very interesting to hear. Yeah, and you're he's your six foot you're over two hundred pounds. I good length here, this type caliber of athlete because he was forty in the ver really good times across the board. And a big thing for him was he came back for a

senior year at Ohio State and really improved catching the football. Yeah, ninety receptions, we see he set the Ohio State record single season record when it was only the fifth receiver at Ohio State history to go over a thousand yards in a year in a season. But more but productive catching the football just as a finisher. Uh, you know, he really improved his catch rate. Now, a big part of that is a lot of easy throws one, Yeah, the quarterback did the heck with job getting to the ball.

That's also a big factor. Sure, so you know he's gonna have some drops, but he improved his drop rate tremendously from his junior year to his senior year. Everything you're saying about this guy is why he would interest me for the Cowboys because he could fill all the roles that they are potentially losing. So it's a bummer to hear you boost his draft stock. Are people looking at him. We talk about with Thomas from the Saints. Are people looking at these Ohio State receivers and say, no,

who's the next guy? Well? I think that you know that asking probably too much there, different style of player, different style. Yeah, but but Ohio State receiver? No, Well, I mean he's like that's not maybe not maybe, I mean not the most I know Thomas came on. I feel like Thomas came on late. He did he see his best year he had like eight hundred yards receiving.

So what Ohio State is one of those programs where like they're just churning out such a silly amount of talent that like their their college production isn't necessarily in you know, indicative of anything. It just means they couldn't beat out the other five star on the field. And it's funny. It's a good point teaser for the mock

draft on Monday. I have him going to the Raiders at twenty seven, so we can compare them right there, Cooper, Yeah, going forward to how those two work out, because yeah, fast we were we had Kyle Martin on from the Raiders. Oh yeah, how he did a good job. He did a nice job. You'd appreciate that because we had him on him talking about the Raiders and you know what they're picking, and he was you know, he was. We

were all, you know, Dane. The thing that Dane wanted to see was them to draft a receiver at twenty seven so he can compare. Sure, what you have with Amari Cooper with with that'd be fun a receiver that they have. Okay, you're continued winners here. If we're sticking with the receivers, we have to see Miles Boykin. Uh. And now I think that was a shock to me. He always also qualifies for they go back to the tape. Yeah,

he gets in two categories. You're right. So for a guy that's six four two twenty yeah, runs a four four two. Uh, jumps were outstanding, the three Colne was outsanding. Short line too. He plays athletic, Yeah, but he doesn't play to that speed. That's what it's funny because he doesn't. He doesn't run with his pads like that. Right. He's a fast guy, right, and he'll he'll make some impressive catches where he's making you know, his body control, his

adjustments to the football. You know, you can tell he's athletic. On tape. Quarterback situation proved there too as well, but Notre Dame. That's true. It didn't have great production led the team in receiving, but Miles boy Can definitely a player to go back to the tape, but he helped himself. He turned some heads with how he performed. Okay, we add of winners. Are we still? I think two guys

in the offensive line Andre Dillard from Washington State. I think Andre Dillard and we talked about this going back to the Senior Bowl. How you know he was the top senior offensive lineman. But okay, where exactly is his value? Is he a first round high first round picks, a late first round pick, early second round pick? Performed pretty

well at the Senior Bowl. Then he goes to the combine and at three hundred and fifteen pounds and again this is the one workout that I got to see him person, right, and yeah, you were in the stadium that day. He just he looks he moved differently everybody else on the on the on the field. Yeah, he David, He's never on the ground. I mean, I ask you a guy, when you when you watch when you watch, yeah, when you watch him mean the body, control of the balance,

the footwork. He doesn't play stressed at all. It reminds me a lot of back into the thirteen. I remember being on in the stands watching Luke Jokel. Was talked about it at the top pick that year. Yeah, and then Eric Fisher and Luke Joker were going like back to back, back to back. Yeah. I remember leaving Lucas Oil Stadium that day thinking, and I tweeted it that day, Eric Fisher's going number one, Like he's a much better athlete, much better mover than Luke Jokel. And that's how it

turned out happening. Andre Dillard I left. When I left Lucas Oil Stadium, I came to you guys and said, this guy's going to talk you definitely. You definitely did. We talked about it one of those shows in Indie. But what's interesting to me is, uh, you know, he's coming out of Washington State, which you know, these the Mike Leak Leak Mike Leach offense is like NFL types are decrying that offense is like the death of good

offensive line play like that. You know, people credit those college schemes for why it's so hard to find good offensive line play in the NFL, where you're telling me the best guy in this year's draft might be coming out of a program, it makes it more difficult, no question. Because in case, I talked to Jalen Jolks at the Combine Oregon defense and I asked, okay, who was the toughest offensive tackle you faced? And you know, he said a few names and an insay Dillard. I said, okay,

well what about Dillard? And he said, well, it really wasn't a challenge because the ball is up and gone before I can't even you know, do anything. So and the Pac twelve has a really cool award called the Morris Trophy, which the offensive lineman the players vote on who the best defensive lineman is in the conference, and vice versa, defensive lineman vote on the best offensive lineman. And Caleb McGarry won the award Washington offensive tackle over

Andre Dillard. And I think a big part of that is you just you don't get really get a chance to see Dillard show what he can do on a consistent basis because the balls up and gone so quickly. Yeah, how about the losers, you know, and and and you know what I mean, they're working out and stuff like. I mean losers kind of a strong strong word. But the guys that you know that we're kind of looking

at that maybe didn't help themselves as much. I think it starts with Chipolite, and that's who I was kind of alluding to earlier by the pass rusher who didn't help himself. First of all, he's weighed in sixteen pounds heavier than he was listed at at Florida two hundred and fifty eight pounds. The workouts he ran at four eight, which is if you watch him on film, you see a guy that's instant speed. He can bend, he can get after the quarterback for eight. He doesn't see. He

doesn't play like that. He plays much faster, thirty two inches in the vert and then you know he exited with a hamstring injury. I put that hamstring in. Maybe maybe a hurt, hurt pride a little bit, Maybe maybe a text from an agent saying stop, get out of here, Yeah, get out of here. I actually this though, I remember sugs Arizona State Cults Ravens, possible Hall of Famer. Yeah, but I'm saying, you know, four nine. Yeah, at Arizona State, we kept trying to go and getting him faster. He

never could run fast than thirty eight year a dash. Yeah, yeah, the thirty yard. I couldn't stand at thirty eight and getting fast enough. But that's what I'm saying, though. It's a guy that's super super talented, but maybe not going to be able to run as well, more so than just the testing is okay, well, why aren't you in better shape? Why aren't you going back? It's not important

to you kind of a thing. There were character concerns, and you know, I'm always hesitant to talk about character stuff when I don't have a concrete example, like I can't say this guy was arrested or this or that. I don't have a concrete example. But at my report on Jachi Polite I put in, their scouts are really worried about his maturity and his character. And I received a lot of feedbacks. And his teammates speak kylie of him. He's never got any trouble. The coaches say good things

about him at Florida, Like, what is it? I can't tell you. I just know I've been told by scouts there's character concerns. Okay, we go to the combine and I heard from multiple scouts which said train wreck temperamental. Yeah, he did not perform well during the interview process at the Combine, and it matches up with what I heard all season long and again working on this first round. Mok,

he's not in there. Yeah, so he definitely And there's a lot of people that had him going to Green Bay at twelve, I believe was kind of even even our colleague Kevin Turner was like, how do I get this guy at twelve? You know, Packer fan himself, but well, now that's you know, sitting here Paris Campbell. All of a sudden, You're like, you're telling me, I can't hope that he falls to the Cowboys. How far down does this push Chai Polite? Good question, I don't know. And

all it takes his one team? You know, I could see a team like Seattle taking him at twenty one. About my baals, especially given the value of the positions, Yeah, Seattle is a very good, good call for talented play. You know this. Absolutely, they're gonna give you every Carroll chance and so okay, they'll meet with Polite at the let's say he improves his times at the pro Day, they'll get him on the grass at Florida Ben Griffin

Hill Stadium whatever they call it Hill Griffin. You take him to dinner, Yeah, okay, you take him to dinner. Maybe he performs better in terms of his character, in terms of the way he presents himself. All of a sudden, you're feeling a little bit better. So he could still go in the first because all it takes his one team. But man, I don't know Seattle picks at twenty one and see them trade down to like twenty six and still draft him. Well, they are low one draft picks.

They went out of that pick, no question. And I think they also haven't picked in their original slot in like six years. Yeah, they just don't do that. They're not fans of that. No one saw him taking a shot penny in the first round last year, so Seattle definitely that was a surprise. When we were all a draft day when that was rolling on, we all like, whoa what how about somebody else? You get Draymond Jones from Ohio State. Now we watch him one tape. The

foundation of his game is quickness. It is it's the ability to be slippery through gaps and create disruption in the backfield. Two eighty one pounds and the testing times were below average. So that was really surprising to see for a former basketball player. A guy that flashes on tape, you better have good testing times, right, and he didn't have it. So Draymond Jones is gonna be a tough

one to figure out. Plays really tall he does. I struggles. Yeah, when you watch him play, David, it's it's one of those things where and the first thing he does is just right up out of a stand, I mean just straight up and then you're watching then. But I thought, you know, when you when you talked about him, Dane, I did kind of see a little bit of a

slippery player, right, you know. But but when you're right, when you're when your guy that you're talking about as an undertackle or three technique, you know, and you don't you don't play with that you're testing numbers don't show that has a weird number to see on a d Linemann. Yeah, it's a strange. It is a very strange six that's down all round at least. Yeah, well it's better than any number they mean, it's like a number five ye that I hate the single Well, look at look at

number two, right, number one. Who is that? Because he's yeah, he's flashed. When you watch Ohio State tape. That number two shows up a lot when we do our October episode. Yeah, you know during the bye week and be talking about Chase Young. Yeah, we'll see who goes higher, Nick Bosa this year or Chase Young next year. Yeah, so anybody else you got on there? I mean, I think we have to talk about DK met half and I don't know what where he fits in terms of the categories.

Probably the you know, need to go back to the tape because look, we knew he was gonna run fast. I don't think anybody expected four three three at two hundred and twenty eight pounds. The guy's a freak. But the three cone in his short shuttle were looked like he was running the SEC indoor Championship when he came blowing down that line. Yeah, but what about the three cone though, No, No, that's what Dane pointed that out. Dane was very quick to say, listen, I can tell

you this guy can run really fast straight. I don't know about change of direction, and I don't think it's gonna be good because you see it on tape. He did do it's it's a struggle. He is stiff, there's no question about that. Scares the Bejesus out of me, if I'm being honest. But okay, it's just he still has well myth scares you because of that treadwell, doesn't it. Yeah, he still has a tremendous big play potential, right, there's no question with what he can do vertically, take the

top off at defense. Uh, just a big physical size. But he's not a natural pass catcher. He's not a savvy route runner, and he is a stiff athlete. Like those three things are going to work against him, and I think it makes it really tough to figure out his ceiling and his value in the draft because I think he has no question is upside, no question is big play potential. But where do you draft that? Where do you what is he going to be in the NFL?

What's his comparison? He's not Josh Gordon. Yeah, like Josh Gordon was a much more fluid rounte runner. Fluid is the best comparison for this guy, a Ted version of Ted Gain, except he's fifty pounds bigger and yeah four inches taller, you know, like again still playing example, and that's I think dk Metcoff can have a productive career. But I don't think just because he ran a four three three, I don't think he's worth a tope. We fall in love with the picture of a guy that

looks like you could strike matches on him. Well, sure, yeah, you know that. I mean, you fall in love with that. But then but then in your in your mind, in the scout's mind, the scouts thinking it's too big. Do you think he's still a first round pick than yeah, No, I don't think he gets out of the top twenty. I think he could go top time. That boy he just talked like he wasn't going to be the top twenty. But it's teams are going to focus on what he

can do, not what he can't do. And you don't think teams are concerned with like you are about the lack of change of the change of direction. I think so, I definitely do. But I think they're going to focus on the four three three, the power, the size, and say, mister Davis still alive with the Raiders. They might, but yeah, yeah, but I think there's a The Raiders earned that reputation because most of those picks were bad picks like Darius Hayward Bay not a similar player. Could this guy be

the biggest bus factor in the first round. I'm I'm asking, I'm asking two names. Terrified of this guy? High risk, high reward? Yeah, boom or bust. I think rare Shawn Gary's in that conversation. Don't say that I love Gary. I think that DK Metcalf's in that conversation. Sure, yeah, I think that he would be uh, he would fit that. So this guy makes me happy. The Cowboys don't have a first round pick because you think they would take this guy. No, they wouldn't, but not not because of

any of that. They just why do you need a wide receiver in the first round. I mean, you're gonna bank on the big play potential. You're gonna focus on what he can do and how special it is, and you know you're gonna hope for the best. This is my this is my drop of twenty nine crap. You boys are in the office. Your boys are Your team has been struggling the last couple of years. You're both are general managers. Your team has been struggling the last couple of years. You're kind of on the hot seat.

A little bit. Are you taking this guy Metcalf? Yeah, there is a point in the first round where I would take him. Yes, I would not take him top ten though, Okay, say, okay, you're Tampa, you're my guy at Tampa. You're kind of you're kind of already have a guy that runs straight. I'm just saying, though, you're you're your GM that's on a hot seat. Yeah, you know, you're your your your existence to be able to pay your lake house off as means you have to have

a good draft. I guess what, fifty percent of first round draft picks probably don't work out. So, yes, this might gout. This guy might have higher bus potential, but he has higher boom potential too. Wow, So at some point in now I'm not taking him top ten, but it's a lot more palatable after pick twenty. But like, if I'm the Titans at nineteen and I'm looking for every way to help Marcus Mariota, I thought, that's like a pretty good guy with Davis a few years ago.

He really he's been okay, coming on, he's healthy, he's on the field, he's been I'm saying, Okay, that's what I'm saying. I'm looking for that big play potential. And if I'm a team like the Titans where I'm trying to help out my quarterback, that would interest me. Does he help your quarterback? Yes? I think he does. Okay, I knew I could get you to say it. He's

a first round pick. It's just I think we need to temper expectations with Oh, he's definitely top ten now or you know he's he's going to be a big riser. I mean, he's what we thought he was going in. Really's fast, but really stiff. He's a late round, first round pick for me. All Right, thank you for your winners and losers. I was agreeing with you until you got to that last one. Hey, that's if we agreed on everything. That's gonna be fun. Be fun. Okay, when

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Doctor Pepper, the one you crave. Thanks everyone is at Ko, co founder of the Draft Show, and it's time for Twitter on the twin Twitter. Oh man, take it away, tiny j That's good stuff right there. That is well done, Ed Caho, great job. Production value gets better on the show every week every week though, and again thank you for Ed. He is the founder of this show, but

thank him for that. And thanks to Kick Garrison for being as creative as he is with two with all the graphics and stuff like that that we come up with. Dane List you know guys, Yeah, Eddie, all right, all right, No, I'm gonna get right into it. Yeah. I'm actually really relieved that Dan didn't bring this guy up because a lot of people were asking about him after the combine. Mitchell wants to know does the tape match the athletic

traits for Kansas State running back Alex Barnes. It's funny if you ask just a general college football fan who led the Big twelve in rushing last year, how many would say David Montgomery. It's a good guest here for the Oklahoma kid. Do we one of the Oklahoma's tray sermon one of those guys? Uh? But it was this kid Barnes from Kansas State, like thirteen hundred rushing yards. He's a bigger guy. He's physical. He is not afraid

to drop his pads and run over you. They just there were in a lot of open field runs on his tape, so it was hard to see necessarily that athleticism. But he has some burst to him. Uh, you know, he gets through the whole quickly. I didn't expect those numbers. And it's funny he uh, talking to people that he was training with his he had like a thirty eight and a half in a vert talking to people that he's training with, he never got better than thirty five.

They're in training and he got thirty eight and a half at the combine. So adrenaline man, great good, I mean yeah great for hid scared he must have had five oreos instead of four like one of Williams that morning. But so good for him. He tested well. I don't he also qualifies as a guy. You're going back to watch the tape just to see if you know, you do see a little bit more of that athleticism on the field. But he definitely helped himself. Well, you're right

about that. The running stuff, even though they have you know, a guy in a tackle you have to look at that. You know, you preach act to guard your center, you know, wherever you want to project him. Yeah, they just did not have a lot of space to run, right, I mean they were. There are a lot of times where he's just running into a wall and you know, getting what he can. So good for him for having the

workout that he did. Finishing up from the first segment, CJ wants to know if Chichai Polite fell to fifty eight, do you take that risk? And it's easy to dismiss this because it's hard to imagine him falling that far. And I know they're different positions, but I would have I would have said the exact same thing about guys last year. Yeah, and there he was at fifty nine, So there's gonna be somebody's gonna slide and you're ready and the interest of that, how would you feel about that?

And that's an interesting comparison because it's it's different than like Randy Gregory, right, you know, Randy Gregory fell, which as far as I'm aware, we we still don't know what guys did that scared so many people off, right, and I think it was more just the people he rolled with, you know, background, that kind of thing, just it scared some teams away. And with Polite, it's just, you know, he's anything but polite. It's kind of he's

the maturity, the just way he handles himself. But you know, can you trust him? You know? Yeah, if you can't trust a player, you can't draft the player. So you have to have some level of trust there. And if this team can find that with him, then sure, roll the dice at fifty eight and take him. But that all low enough cost that you would do it. I have to trust the player. I don't care it's seventh round. I need to trust the player. Yeah, you guys are

talking right in my wheelhouse right now. Well, you know Brian will do it. Yes, damn right, I'll do it. And you don't even love the player. I have a second, real great on the play. But he likes him a lot more at fifty eighth than he would absolutely like twenty five. Absolutely I do. And you know, and again that's just I'm looking on ability and stuff like that. But if if if guys like Dane Brugler and other scouts are telling me brought us you need to go

back and look at this guy. You need to go back and look at this You need to go back and look at this guy. Okay, I don't have the advantage in Dan's right, We don't have the advantage of knowing all the off field stuff about him. I mean, I wish I could go talk to the equipment manager about this kid. I absolutely do. But if you're telling me I have a chance to draft this guy at fifty eight as you would do, Dave, come on, bring him on, let's go. I mean this, This team drafted

Randy Gregory at sixty and he had more. Clearly, his baggage was a little bit more to deal with than all that. So right, yeah, well, and taking that chance with Randy Gregory is why this team's and a little bit of a hole. Right, Yeah, Oh, you're absolutely right, both negotiating with the Marcus Lawrence and trying to fill that other defensive I'll never forget that. The last thing that Jason Garrett said to him is you know, yeah, I'm not gonna have to worry about jam No, coach,

You're not gonna have to worry about me. It sounded very convincing at the time. Yeah, and he won't be the won't be the last. Trust me on that. Marcus says, would you rather have Renell Wren or Kalen Saunders to fensive tackles? We've talked a lot about. Oh, that's funny because I was trying to mess with that right now. Well, I was working on this mock, and it's only a first round mock, but I include the Cowboys and the Saints in there because they don't have a first round pick,

and you haven't taken Ran. Didn't you take the Saunders? You had Ran a couple of weeks ago, Yeah, I want because I think he gives you kind of that interchangeable He could play the three, he could play the nose, he could help you out both spots. Really good athlete. You love the makeup, you love just you don't love the and you know, we know Will McClay traditionally doesn't

like the smaller school guys. But this is the type of player where I hope you can overlook the dcal and the helmet, the level of competition, you look at the traits, You look at the player and say I want him on my team. So Kaylin Saunders for me, I think would be an excellent pick at fifty eight. It's an interesting that's an interesting thought exercise because I mean, they've been so good at drafting that I trust that they would do that if they were put in that situation.

But they really haven't though. I mean you could, you know, late and vander Esch, you can throw that out there if you want to, but I don't. Boise States not on that level. Boise States as good as a Nonpower

five program can be. So I would be curious to see if that, you know, if that was the guy, would they do it, because they really have avoided those types of players in the last four or five, especially like like the question asks compared to an Arizona State right a player, absolutely, a guy who played right pack twelve offensive lineman. Why am I just thinking give me n because you play the Arizona State. No, I just think he's a better player. Herm Edwards coached him up. Yeah,

I mean there's some there's some rawness to rin. But man, to me, there looks like if you you could, you could hit on this guy. This guy, this guy. I mean, I see a guy he's this guy's got so much natural ability to play. The raw traits are for sure, Yeah, you know, a little tall out of his dance, But man, I mean he's got some power to him. You know, talking with our Saudi buddy Dave, how'd that go? Our Saudi scout overseas? He's he's on Wren. He I've got him.

I've got him watching the big fan. Yeah, big fan of Wren. So absolutely, Okay, Um, this is this is confirming my own personal bias. But I really enjoyed this question from just for This Dane. Why is Hollywood Brown Marquis Brown not another John Ross? Well? First, A really good question well, first, let's look at John Ross. What why has John Ross been a bust up to this point? Injuries it's a big part of it, right yeah. Um, And you know with Brown, he stayed healthy up until

the end of his career at Oklahoma. Unfortunately with the Liz Frank but a one hundred and sixty six pounds has to worry you. He scares the crap out of it, and as it should. Um, But I don't know, can he Why can't he beat de Shawn Jackson instead of

John Ross? I don't know. Yeah, he could go, you know, And you're right, I don't think there's really a clear reason to say he's this or that, because we don't know until he gets the NFL and you know, shows that he can use that speed to equal production at the NFL level. Until we see that, you know, it's unproven. But I don't know. I mean, I get the concern with John Ross. But okay, say say the say the

Bengals drafted John Ross in the early second round. We're not talking about John Ross that much because it's just unfortunately it didn't work out. But you know, in the early second round it's a big difference in top ten and we're not talking about Hollywood as a top ten pick. We're talking about him probably in the early second round. So if i'm I'm I've been more than willing to

roll the dice at that point. If I'm talking about pick you know, thirty nine instead of nine overall that is I mean, and yeah, I feel way better if you're telling me pick forty two, that's fine. It's where you're talking about him, is like pick twenty one where I'm right. I think Jackson is an excellent comparison, by the way. I think it makes perfect sense. And not just the speed, the size, but DeShawn Jackson's such a natural tracker of the football, oh gosh, yeah, the deep throw,

And that's that's what Hollywood does. He is you see him his ball judgment when the ball is in flight, whether you know he understands how to slow his route or speed up, you know, whatever he needs to do. He gets underneath the football, completes the catch and finishes. So I think the Deshaan Jackson Hollywood Brown comparisons are just that they're almost clones. People on periscope want to know what we think about a mina who I keep asking about him to me everyby time I had asked

me about how is he possibly fifty eight? And I'm like, well, that's a little rich for me. Yeah, I think so too. Yeah at all. I want to say, y'all pegged him kind of in the fourth round. Yeah, that's kind of where I have him. You know. So if you're thinking about a minute, if you're trying to think about a replacement or guys are gonna draft, I don't think a mena who at two or three is really a great option. I think if you're talking about it more in the

fourth round, yeah, i'd give that a bet. I would give that more credence. It's early in the process, so you know, we don't have a firm grasp on how the Cowboys feel about all that type of stuff, But I don't get the impression that they love him. In What position would he play here? I think he's a left defensive end myself. I know some teams are looking at him as a three as a three tech. Yeah, So it's just you know, I don't think he has a set position in the pros, and I don't know.

I think he's a solid roll guy, but I don't think he's a three down starter. I don't think he's going to give him much passionish value. Love the length, you know, I think there's things that coming tape. Yeah, sure, but you know we're talking. We're talking about yeah, fourth round or not a second round? Right there you go. Thanks for the question of periscope. By the way, I appreciate that Dane already. Dane just gave this away with his most recent monch. But that's okay, because Sean wants

to know. Can each of you tell us who your guy would be at fifty eight right now? Just give me a guy. Don't think too hard. You're going Kaylen Saunders Dane is Yeah for Kylen Saunders. N we're now Reren, Yeah Ren? Okay, O're a pass rusher. Well, I think I think there's a better shot of me having a better defensive tackle there at fifty eighth than a than than a pass rusher. Let's say DeAndre Walker. Okay, let me ask you this, Okay, call your maybe how close

is that going to be? The TCU N Yeah, I'm sorry about that. Day's Did his combine change your opinion at all? I love his tape, I agree, but I'm asking did his combine worry you at all because his three colne was really really bad? Does that concern you at all? Does that you know you're just trusting the tape and trusting the tape there? Okay, you know I love the guys like Walker Georgia. I think, is I

wish Ferguson. There's no way Ferguson makes it to me Louisiana Tech by the way, to Ferguson make it to me at fifty eight, that would be pretty surprising. Can I still get Okay? I think that there's gonna be better defensive tackles. Then there you know what's gonna happen with Tillary. The scouts hate him, don't they? Something's wrong with him? When you say when you say Hillary, everybody kind of goes uh. He posted ah, he posted a photo coming off his shoulder curtainery. He does not look

like a like. He looks light. He looks like an offensive tack that much like. He does not And that's what he was in height or when he went to Notre Dame. Does not have a ton of bulk. No, he doesn't. I don't know. Hillary is a guy that again, all it takes is one team to gamble on the talent. But yeah, teams, there's a lot of teams. You just don't let me ask you this, y'all shout about that.

Would you take? Okay, if you think about wide receivers, which those wide receivers would you take at fifty eight? If you had to have been saying devo for months? Is Samuel too rich? I cant him in the third? You're basically in the third. You're five picks away from the third. You're not wrong, You're not wrong, which, well, okay, Dan, you think about that, which you've mocked him here before. Do you still you know, a month and a half later,

do you still feel okay about Jonathan Abram at fifty eight? Oh? Yeah, I think John than Abram go in the first I would yeah, yeah, I would take him. I might love John then Abram. You don't want to buy into the Danes talking about how mature he is and all that, married as a kid. Yeah he is. You don't want to You don't want to buy into the smoke screens completely. But my confidence that the Cowboys are going to invest in safety and free agency is at an all time low. Oh,

there's no question. So Abram can play in the box and let Xavier Woods play free and let's go. I love the competitive nat. Just throw on the watch the egg bowl, you know, throw on the tape. How close do you have him in Rap Rap Washington? Sorry, I have well, I have an adderly one like top free safety and then RAP two and then Abram. I think both those guys are they're they're fairly close. I like Rap a lot. I do too. Both those guys are top fifty. If you gave me a choice between Rap

and Abraham taking Rap, how how similar are they? Rap is the better athlete, a much better athlete, and he's just he's so dang smart. But Abram is a wood layer. Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's what I want. He especially, I mean, Woods can play free safety, so I want sure that guy. That's I mean. I think that Rap can do that too, just not on the same level. I think he's where he gets the edge is his instincts and his ability to cover ground. I mean, he

could do just a little bit of everything. He's really good in like every area, just not great in any area. So you know there's value in that. Um With Abram, you do worry about him and holding him in coverage, you know, can he play man to man It gets a tight end. Yeah, when he's coming downhill, when he's blitz and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean watching on special teams. I mean he's a headhunter. He takes guys and decletes them. So I love the energy, love the competitiveness. Um,

bring him on. Are you talking about rap I'm talking about I'll fight for rap here. Yeah, No, exactly. I mean this guy. This guy plays in coverage, he plays all over the formation. He could time blitzes. I mean, I mean, he's not afraid to stick his nose in the action. He's a form tackler. I mean reacts quick. I mean these are all notes I'm saying angles to the football. He doesn't miss tackle. This guy's a tough player. He is. I mean that's I mean, he plays in

your line. That kind of talks to what you're asking about, Dave. If you could play woods the back, let's play wrap up front. I mean I played wrap up front. That's sounds like a really kind of cool deal, regardless of who it is. Like, that's what I would think that they would do with any safety that they draft. Yeah. Yeah, and you think about all the secondary guys that Washington has pumped out Jimmy Lake. Their defensive coordinator said, this

guy's the smartest guy I ever coached. I like it, Dave. I'm gonna have to quit there because I have yet time. Yeah, yeah, we gotta get We got into some because I gotta trade a guy. Okay, when we come back, Broadest is gonna try and blow your mind. Stay tuned. If you're like me and you love I mean, if you have a right thing, then cutting the court is scary. But then I found out I could switch to direct TV

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USA dot com. That's USA dot Com. Terms and conditions apply. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com draped you Cowboys. We're back here in the SWBC mortgage studios. Brian brought us Dame Burglar, David Helmet, K. Garrison, Executive Producing. We want to thank our folks at Miller Life for always hanging out with us after a long day of scout and grab your Miller Life. Do you some good? All right, boys, I'm gonna try and trade a football player today. But

you got what what are you thinking? Brian? I wonder who might you possibly be trying to get rid of? Well, again, we're trying to do some We're all about investigating educate here. So again I need to look at all possibilities. I'm looking at the possibility that I cannot sign the Marcus Lawrence to a long term extension. Okay, I'm looking at forty four days now until the NFL Draft. Can't do it or don't want to do it. I can't. I'm

having trouble getting it done. But I'm running out of days. Okay, I'm gonna try and take these forty four days and I'm gonna try and sign him. But we need to come up with a plan in case we can't sign him, in case it just turns into something that you know what, it is not going to get done. We're too far apart. Again, this is all about radio and stuff like that. These guys are working hard every day. I'm sure both sides

are doing the best it can. But for our little group here, we're in a little bit of a bind and I need to figure it out. Is it would be worth our trouble to try and trade this guy? Can't we can, Dane, as you as my director or player personnel. Can I Can you find me a guy? You know? Can you find me a guy, Dave, I'm gonna need you to help me make this trade, though,

I'll do my best. I'm gonna under protest. Yes, I'm gonna go to a team that has one hundred and eight million dollars and actually a hundred and six million dollars in cap space right now, Dane, you know the general manager very very well, and mister Ballot mister ball Yeah. And so with that being said, Indianapolis currently holds the twenty sixth pick in this draft. They currently also hold

pick thirty four and pick fifty nine in the second round. Okay, I'm kind of thinking this might be a possibility for me to trade him to a team that a has the cap space and be he has picks that I might like to partake in. I'd love to have number twenty six. I'd really love to have number thirty four. I would really like to have number fifty nine. To be honest, too, I don't think I could get all three.

But we need to make a determination. Do we take twenty six and fifty nine and just go with it, or do we take twenty six and try and get thirty four out of these guys? Or do we just look at thirty four and fifty nine. There's also there's something else you want to consider too, And you know

we talked about this before the show. Are you going up like, are you making this deal with the It's not like you've got a draft a defensive end to replace tank because you lose arguably your best player, certainly one of your best three players, and you're basically out of pass rushers. If you do this, are you doing the trade simply to have a haul of picks to replenish your team, or are you doing it with the notion like, if we're getting rid of this guy, we

have to draft another. We're gonna try and parlay this. And I know people on periscope are saying, why not go the Jets. I'm trying to send him to a place where I know the defensive coordinator knows the player well. Plus you're to facilitate the trade. I'm trying to make this as easy although as possible. The Jets are going to be running a four or three under Greg Williams. That's right. It's worth keeping in mind. It is worth keeping and for this sake, for this exercise, I'm gonna

look at I'm gonna look at it. I'm looking at the Colts just because the familiarity with the player, with the defensive coordinator exactly Mattie Eberflows is a great point. Also because you have a team with a lot of cap room, right, you have a team with a general manager who is not afraid to think outside the box. That's exactly not afraid to take chances. That's exactly right. And you have a team with the Colts that has multiple picks in the first two rounds. That's success. The

Jets don't have. I say, yeah, the Jets for the same car. Second round pick the Jets. The Jets pick at three, they don't pick again until sixty eight, which is in the third round, and then ninety three. So thank you, I appreciate you. On periscope of jetting value from the cults as far higher. I picked the team and I thought that would be the easiest to try and facilitation it is realistic, Okay, Dave. Yeah, Colts want to offer me twenty six and fifty nine, do I

need to fight for that thirty four? Because if I get twenty six and fifty nine, I'm looking at I'm looking about at one hundred and I'm looking at ten ten on my numbers, which would put me right around in the fifteenth pick of the each draft. Fortunately for us, this just happened. Yeah, this, I mean this trade, A very similar trade just happened when Oakland sent Khalil Mack to Chicago. Yeah, Oakland got back. They got back two firsts, which isn't very nice, and I mean there were some

there's a third involved in a sixth. But the meat, the meat of this thing was that Oakland sent this year's first and next year's first to the Bears, and the Bears sent back next year's second. Right, So in it's I mean, so really we'll see how the picks line up. But Oakland, they gave up two first and they get back a second, So I think that mitigates

it a lot. So basically, the point I'm trying to make is I think it's unrealistic with that, with that format in mind, I think it's unrealistic that you could expect to get twenty six and thirty four for anybody, because I think the world of DeMarcus Lawrence, I think Khalil Mack's a little bit better of a player. Yeah, so if you can't get twenty six and thirty four for Mac, it's unrealistic for me to think you could get that for tank Am I crazy. And to get

value is all only what a team's willing to pay. True, So you know, it doesn't matter. If you want to use the Mac deal as a kind of a starting point, that's great, but it doesn't really matter, right, It's not like you're locked into that because that's the way that trade went. And there might be one team that's really seriously considering a trade, So you have to kind of work around their parameters. And I think you have to try to get a third pick, maybe it's a third

rounder next year. Yeah, you know, I think you have to try and get that third pick. But you know, if you're not gonna get twenty six and thirty four, if it's gonna be twenty six to fifty nine. Then you try to get that third pick. I will, Okay, what about this? So would you rather let's say you can get twenty six and fifty nine, did you rather send Tank to Indy for twenty six and fifty nine

or would you rather go after that third pick? But you have to chip in a pick as well, whether it's this year or next year, like let's say to the Jets or to the Colts. So you get twenty six fifty nine and twenty six fifty nine and a fourth, but then you send Tank and next year's third. I mean, does that mean I think I'd rather just have the two picks and send the player. I would rather I would? I think I would rather have the two picks and

the players. Because if you, if you can, okay, say they're not interested in giving us thirty four, you know that. I mean, we're gonna try, yeah, But say they come back with fifty nine, so we need to parlay. Then we could parlay twenty six fifty eight our own and fifty nine, and that will give us thirteen. That will give us thirteen thirty on the points, thirteen thirty on the on the chart, get you the top ten at ten? Ten?

This is okay, This is Brian's real genius slash madness is He's trying to do this deal and then quickly turn around and turn that into a deal to get into the top ten. I am, I'm trying. I'm trying that. I'm trying like hell, though, I'm trying to try like hell if I don't care if now my my again, I have to be aggressive here to try and make this because all right, Dane, I'm trusting you now because you're my director. Can I get and you've always told

me this, and you're absolutely right. I'm not trading for a position. I'm trading for a player at ten. If I could pull this trade off, if I could pull this trade off at ten, can I get a player that can help me at defensive end this year? I think that you can probably get Brian Burns, who is a flexible, bendy ed rusher, a lot of athleticism. Okay, you're gonna have some hiccups versus the run Florida State. Yes, I'm giving up a guy. I'm giving up a guy

that can play the run. Yeah, And I'm giving up a guy that could play that it can rush the pair giving up a guy that can do everything. If you're trading up to number ten, I think the two pass rushers you're looking at are Burns and Cleveland Farrell from Clumbs. Okay, but both has clearly gone. Yes, Gary is clearly gone, and then most likely and then Sweat as well. Right and okay, So you're trading up for

a defensive end. That's it can't no other position, right, That's and that's kind of my That's why I said that is Obviously trading to Marcus Lawrence screws you in terms of being able to rush. That's that's what I'm john. John Gruden can probably tell you all about that. Yeah, I don't know how many times he said after losses last year, like we just can't get to the court. I wonder why I want to feel good for all

my effort, but I'm trying to do here. I think you're probably screwing yourself if you do this and like locking yourself into trying to immediately replace him. Obviously that's what you would prefer, but how often does a draft board really fall that way? Are you saying? Then, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna try, and if you're gonna do this, you better be willing to just make the most of what you get out of it instead of just saying Montez sweater bust. Because if that doesn't

work out, then you're up ass creek. Okay, So with not okay, thinking of that, not replace them? Then I go for the tight end. I trade for Hackinson to see my guy, I go in a different direction. Okay, who do you got? I think that this team would love to add at Oliver to the defensive line. Oh I think you would be the perfect Rod Marinelli. Okay, technique that put a smile on my face. There to get your interior pressure, I mean you're losing outside pressure

on the edges. Okay, at ten, I can get him, for sure, right, not for sure, but probably probably more likely than what if? What if I can only what if I can only get to fourteen? What if I can't get if I can't pull this thing together? I can we get to fourteen? I can only take I can only take my I've had Oliver going fourteen right now to the Falcons at number fourteen. So if you've

got twenty six thirty four and fifty eight all. I'm sorry if you've got twenty six, fifty eight and fifty nine all at your disposal, Yeah, you ought to be able to get up there if you're if you're determined, i'd think so, if you're determined enough, do you know why? Why am I? Why are you scared? Now? Not? Not at all? Okay, not at all. I'm intrigued by what he just said. I mean, I still rather have Tank,

but I whether pass a little bit. Maybe I was told this, but I think this team really leaks at Oliver and if they have a chance to get him. This team hasn't had a true badass undertackle in the entire time that Rod Marine Orphan, the coach. It's about the orphans. They were optimistic about Henry Melton, that didn't really work out. MALIEK. Collins had a pretty nice rookie season doing it. Uh, but they haven't had that guy,

yeah the whole time he's been here. So that is uh, Yeah, that's interesting and okay, but you're still as fun as that sounds, You're still putting him on a line that no longer has the mark. Your no question currently does not have Randy Gregor. You're gonna you're to do some patchwork. Yeah, your ends are gonna be Dorance Armstrong and Crawford Crawford. Yeah, I mean maybe you signed Dion Jordans, Maybe you sign you know, maybe can you can you get Dante Fowler

for That's what I'm saying. Can you get Dante Fowler for a year? Oh so so so yeah, that made me. That made me like, Okay, So when when Brian pitched this segment, I was like, shut up, we're not I don't want to do this. Yeah. No, that was good. I like that. So so the likelihood, the likelihood what you just told me is my director is that, hey boss, we can go get a defensive tackle. I can't assure

you the defensive end end. That's fair. Yeah, I would rather have Oliver than any of the two defensive ends you talked to when you said birds. That's well, that's and that's why again, that's why you can't pigeonhole yourself into that, because basically, if we're doing that deal for an end and it's anybody but Bosa or Sweat, I don't want to do it. And that seems really unlikely. But I like that honestly, even with even with Jason Witten. I wouldn't be as excited, but like I mean, I

could do Hockinson too. I could do that for Hockinson. I wouldn't be as excited about it, but it would make sense. Yeah, who who would Who would help us more? Oh? Right now? The Hawkerson or Oliver, especially if you don't have a freaking all pro left end. Yeah, you'd have to say Oliver in terms of this year at least so so Cowboy fans. If you're looking at this, it shouldn't be for the defensive end like I was trying to get. It should be for the defensive tackle. Okay,

or Tidy? Get an impact player. You're going to get a player. Yes, it's at Oliver who you're going to get. That's a bebbe on the table. Yeah. Let me ask you this. You love getting rid of our picks. You don't want us to have picks. Me and Dane like having picks. Would you do this deal and more than likely stand pat and have twenty six, fifty eight and fifty nine to just get three chances to you know, hit a home run. You're just about you're getting rid

of tank. You're not worrying in the short term, you know, Okay, you get a journey. Let's say, could you get you could get maybe IRV Smith with that twenty six? Couldn't you? Or could you get fanned? Could you get? How close is that going to be? Can we move up? When it? Can we move up? But we got a compensed story? Four? What about Earth? Yeah, IRV, I think we'll be there. Yeah,

I think you could get Earth. Okay, so you could theoretically, well all right, I don't want to throw out specific names, but let's just okay, you get rid of to Marcus Lawrence. Yeah. Again, purely this is spitballing. You sighed Vinny Curry to like an affordable deal to come on and play it for you. Then you add IRV Smith, Jonathan Abram and uh your

boy Kaylen Saunders. So you hit three big positions of need with three picks, and your defensive in spot's definitely not as good, but at least you don't have a pissed off all pro who's not at OTAs. So who would you rather have? IRV Smith, Jonathan Abrahm, Kaitlyn Saunders or at Oliver. Uh? That's tough. That is that's really tough. Is you know what you know what I'm gonna say, Give me the three players. WHOA, that's not that's not what I expect. Give me the three players. Give me

the three I think I give me them. Give me more chances, because like, even as good as the Cowboys are drafting, they're probably not going to be provo all. They're not all three gonna be provole. Give me. I'm okay, I'm okay with Smith. I'm trusting you on on a Abram because I've seen the work of him. Saunders, Okay, you know you hit your three better, but you know, yeah, but you hit him, you hit all three. You made it. You You took an all pro, a top probably a

top five defensive player in this league. Would you say, top ten at least pass top fifteen, yeah, top yeah, top five pass rush for three players that you know, and the financial flexibility to go sign your other players. Okay, oh good point. All right, Well, with all that in mine, would you rather have all that or DeMarcus Lawrence? Give me Lawrence. I'm not I'm gonna figure out a way to keep my on my team. I think I think

I agree. Okay, So so when we get close to actual draft day and again we're gonna we're gonna do our best to keep lawns. To reiterate, to reiterate my point is. I mean, that's all great, but this team's trying to take the next step, or that's what they tell us, and you're not doing that by shipping DeMarcus Lawrence. You're just not not in the short term. All right, guys, that's fun, good idea. Appreciate you guys to stuff. That's a draft show for another week. We'll be back next week.

We continue to investigate and educate for my buddies. Dave Burglar, David Hellman, Kate Garsign, Brian brought us. We'll see you next week with more as we get closer to our date in Tennessee. You guys, take care