Draft Show: Combine Snubs; Top 5 By Position

Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Also joined back by David Hellman. Hey from a little vacation down in Uh, don't say it the Big Easy, Okay, that's fine. Thought he was on assignment. I he was on assignment until you kind of ratted him out for being in Mardi Gras. Is that me New York? Yeah, it was. It was Taylor. I listened to Taylor Radio. All right, Dad, I'm sorry about that, but nice to have you back. David. Thanks,

and we're gonna get into some draft coverage. Kent Garrison producing the show, Executive producing the show as he is always and we appreciate his efforts. Uh want to get into some things that I kind of take the show around a little bit. Uh you know, we've been talking about a lot of the top players and stuff like that. One at some point time getting the show maybe about the little some guys in the middle of the draft.

Maybe I also want to get in though. You know, Mayock put in his top five per position and I thought maybe we would dive into our top five as well. But uh, you know, we talk in talk about some top guys, but I want to get down, go through the board and talk about some guys maybe in the middle rounds of this draft. Everybody's very familiar with some of the top names, but let's let's give guys an

idea maybe in that. You know, because we've been seeing I know, the guys I've been working with with Jeff Kavanaugh, and and and Kevin Turner. You know you came in last night watch film when this Day was in there for part of the time. We're starting to see those fourth, fifth, sixth round type of players. So I need to put some names out there. Saw a very interesting defensive end from app State last night. Yes, we did, a lot

of people need to get on him. We'll put Dane and I give you guys credit because you guys are in here every night, grind in the film till wee hours of the night, putting the work in. And yeah, last night I did some work on Ronald Blair, Yeah, defensive end for app State. Did some work on him a couple of months ago, the two tapes that I had, I thought this a nice player, third round player. We watched him last night, the full cut up, including against

Clemson Clemson, right, not just FCS competition, and he was unblockable. Yeah, this is a player that wins the point of attack. He penetrates gaps, he used his length, his quickness, his effort is unrelenting. There's just so much to like about this player that you know, you look at the board and it's not a great pass rush group this Ye, that's that's kind of that. I like what the direction you're taking. So, you know, how early can we see

a player like this going that shows this type of potential. Now, obviously we need to do more work on him. Why is he at app State? Is that you know Georgia kid need to talk to uh, you know, some coaches, some teammates figure out a little bit more about him, dive more in, but just on talent. We're talking a second round player, absolutely, And I tell you what I was in pressing, And the point you make is Ronald Blair was doing it against the team playing for the

national championship this year. Yeah, I mean he was splitting blocks, beating blocks, getting captured in the edge, attacking plays to the outside. Effort was outstanding. He's a He's a six two and a half two hundred and seventy two pound player. He is the length though four yea, he is. He is a very interesting player. And so again that's we'll get into some of those names. So I'm glad you brought him up and you said he's a he was at Georgia. No, No, he's from Georgia, from Georgia, State

of Georgia. We were the first question that came into my mind. And this is something that I learned a long time ago, and that you always want to find out the story of the player. He always and I always ask where's this guy from? Where's he from? And I'm you know, this, this might be a case, guys

of just misrecruiting. This might be sure. The fact that you know and some people you know, Kevin Turner last night was talking about that, you know they have It was a specific major that he had at app State and he was interested and he's been a four year starter there. Right. Well, the best part about the draft process for me is finding out the journey that all of these kids take to get to this juncture because

it's it's there's snow flicks. No two are the same, you know, whether a kid was a five star coming up in high school or a no star, just that journey, you know, all the different wrinkles until they get to this point. Look at Carson Wentz, one of the best quarterbacks in this draft right playing at North Dakota State. Well why is that? Well, okay, well he heard his arm as junior year, didn't play quarterback, didn't play quarterback till the senior year. And so I mean, each each

kid has a journey, has a story exactly. And so for Ronald Blair, we're still figuring out the story. But the tape, yeah, the tape, the tape is very good. And again the Draft Show, our job is to investigate and then Dane educate And that's what we're gonna try and do for you here. And if you have the opportunity and you can get ahold of the Clemson game. Somehow app State versus Clemson this year. Uh check out number forty nine rushing for app ston't be able to

miss him. You won't. And I'll tell you what I thought. App State played well in that game too. They did. They got after they put a few guys on defrond they know they know that and whatn't know and whenn't surprise Avious they got after they got after Clemson. They've got a safety that's not bad, Doug Middleton. I mean a few guys that app State is FBS. Now are they climbed up? Yeah? They are, and they are their first year in the Sun Belt. They had a pretty

good season. I think they had nine wins something like that. So a good program. Nice job there. Okay, Uh, there's a couple of ways you could get a hold of us on this show. We do a thing, uh from Ed K. Hill that created a long time ago called Twitter on the twenty. I always appreciate his contribution to this show. There's a way also you can call us at eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. That'll be on the side of the screen right here.

We'll take some calls. Always interested in what you folks have to offer. Always interested in your opinion on what you have on players. Maybe have some questions for Dave and Dane and myself. I want to get into because we got the Combine on the horizon as well, and I want to get in Dane. On CBS Sports, the Combine list came out and yes, last night we were

going through some guys that snubs. Yeah, you know, and again as I'm looking at the I'm looking at the website here at CBS, Dane Burglar has it up, and I just want to go through, Dane a couple of those and maybe highlights some positions, maybe the two or three guys that you felt like. Again, the articles up for you to go and read, but maybe some guys that you felt like though really really did get snubbed. Yeah,

And every year we have these types of guys. I mean, they're three hundred and thirty two players invited to the Combine. There's two hundred and fifty five draft picks. So a lot of these guys that invited the Combine will not get drafted. But then you also factor in last year there were forty one players who were not invited to the Combine. Who were drafted, right, So I mean if he's page yeah, it's about sixteen percent. I believe it's

that's somebody can do the numbers. Well, it's one of those things where if with these players, even if you don't get that invite, the you know your journey's not over. You still have a great chance. And for this year, those players that did not receive an invite that stand out. We watched one of the players last night, j Tavis Brown out of Akron. Really he's undersized and there's nothing he can do about that's maxed out there, not gonna

get bigger. But he's fast. He plays the game with this speed that is consistent and also just it pops off the filmy his closing bursts, his pursuit speed um And so I think at worse with Tavis Brown, you're looking at a special teams type of guy. I don't know, it's gonna be tough for him to work his way into the starting lineup as as a linebacker due to his size. But I think at worse you're talking about

a special teams guy. There are not three hundred and thirty two players better than Javis Bryan No, I totally agree with you on that, and I was impressed you brought him up. You talk about Akron and again this guy you know the Bowl game. I mean he was all over the place, and you know, you talk about guys that had have the the instincts, the awareness you know, when you're short in your a little bit underside you

better he does. He's got the explosive but you better be smart, better compen better compensate, and that he can carry guys out of the backfield, he could take guys underneath, played the ball with off hand us all that. Again, he just slacks height, but he's gonna make every single tackle. Yeah, he's We've seen guys unless he's playing J. P. Ryan. Yeah, and then and then and then it's a little bit trouble. But you you talked to him about that. The Yeah,

I did talk to Ja Tavis about that. He told me Pe Ryan is the toughest player he's ever played. And we found stop him a couplet on film. But for the most part, he mean mean, he makes a nine out of ten tackle. Okay, who else you got there? Well, you know a guy that played locally here TCU, Aaron Green saw him with the senior Yeah, he had a good week at the Senior Bowl. And this is a player in space. He's gonna make you miss. I mean, but any type of contact he's going down. He's kind

of funny the way it is. He's kind of a runner and runner and then he makes it cut and then he kind of gets really small. And I thought he was, you know, a late round type of guy because he doesn't play with power, doesn't run with power, and in the NFL, you know, good luck. You know, he's not gonna give you much between the tackles, but he can catch the ball, right, So I thought, you know, maybe he's a third round role. He can, you know, carve out some type of shoulder block like a little

flipper guy. He's not really a square up and he's about two hundred pounds and he's not gonna get much bigger than I either. So um, he's a poor man's Abdullah. And oh, it's actually his best friend because he started his career in Nebraska. You you kind of liked that Duela last year though, when that kind of win of your guys, I remembered, and I mean, I know he climbed as it went. I just remember being surprised that he was as high of a pick as he was

second round pick. Right, we were talking about him as like a third round guy, like the fourth morning back I think in the second round. Oh, he's got those traits though loose played traits. Just out of curiosity, Did the Texas Tech kid get invited? Which one? UM? Washington? Here? Washington? I thought they were both surprisingly good immobile. I honestly, I would have said I thought Green was better. Though. Yeah, it's kind of surprising to me that Green didn't get

invited but Washington did. Yeah, I was surprised. I mean, I again, I Green's probably more of a late round guy, but there were running backs that we are invited that I think that Green's clearly better. So was a little bit surprised to see that. Um. And you know, remember, like I said, forty one players last year were drafted, so you never know what some of these players they could at the pro day or you know, like Green

had a chance at the Senior Bowl. Another Senior Bowl guy, jay Lee the Baylor White Really, yeah, that's what I was gonna get to. I was gonna get because I saw that as being a name that we're very familiar with from the Senior Bowl. I mean other than Braxton Miller, he was probably the best receiver at this your bowl, yeah, I mean besides him and Shepherd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shepherd was on the end right, you're yeah, you're right. But jay Lee he on the North squad. I mean he was.

He was terrific, making some pretty impressive catches and at Baylor his tapes okay, but at the Senior Bowl, I thought he really stepped up, used to size well and it expanded his catch radius and really impressed. So jay Lee, I know, I was looking forward to seeing what the combine to Seebody would run because he's a big, lumbering guy. Speed's not his uh not what he does best as

a receiver. But you know, if you could run a Ford but able to be very productive in the Senior Bowl setting when it came down to okay, you can't. They weren't playing a lot of man coverage. He was able to run some. And the questions we have about the Baylor kids, and I know, especially with Coleman, is these kids as route runners exactly? You know, I mean, is it is a lot to do with the scheme.

I mean, did they get production because of scheme? I thought Jay Lee showed well, though some other guys tell him going down to your list though as well. Uh kJ May was another kid we were talking about them from the Universe Minnesota. I thought he was kind of a little bit of a poor man's Duyne Harris, if you want to say, had a couple of tackles, right, I wrote about him. And then Paul McRoberts from Southeast

Missouri was another guy that was given. Lee and mc roberts with the two most productive receivers on the South team. And I think wide receiver had the most you know snubs this year because he also Daniel Braverman out of Western Michigan, a player who is perfect for the slot. I think he'll get drafted. And then Michael Thomas, not the Ohio State Michael Thomas, but the Southern miss Michael Thomas,

a really good player who he'll have his drops. He's very lean, but I think Michael Thomas has the skills to play at the NFL level. So I think Wide receiver had the most guys that stood out as players that should be at the combine or you know, at least deserved to get to that get to that stage and audition for NFL scouts. Yeah, every year, and that was an alarming number though I didn't realized the number was that. I mean it was last year's more than

what we usually see. I went back into the last few years and uh, you know last year was a little more than we usually see. But see, I mean I have it right here. Last year was a forty one, the year before it was thirty two. So um in thirty two is about twelve and a half percent of the total draft field. So you know we're still talking double digit percents of players. I mean when you talk up drafted, what two hundred and fifty six guys get

drafty Well, yeah, because the Patriots. So I mean you're talking like I mean last year was like once every five or six guys, and then the year before that's when every ten or twelve or so. I mean that's still a lot when you think about it. I mean absolutely, And I have a broken down here. Last year three in the fourth round, we're non combine invites, seven in the fifth round, sixteen in the sixth round, and then

fifteen in the seventh round. So on Day three, uh, you know, we saw a lot of these non combine guys come off the board even as early as a fourth round. Yeah, and the medical information so important to me. These are probably guys that did visit, probably one of the thirty visits you know that get to come in before the pre draft stuff, and you know you can to me, the combine is really about the medical and about the interview exactly so. And actually it raises and

what I think is an interesting question. Maybe you disagree. I just remember last year how many times we must have talked about well, when Gurley gets to the combine, that's when we'll know about his acl Is there anybody Miles Jack comes to mind? Maybe Jalen Smith also comes from who who? This year? Medical wise? Is a question that needs to be answered at the combine. Is there anybody that stands out? I think I think you hit

the two right, Yeah, are the two main ones. I think Jalen Smith will have to wait until probably March in April to know really more about him. Yeah, a few running backs stand out. Devontae Booker, he was not able to be at Senior boause of a knee right that really it prematurely ended his Utah career. So I think Devontae Booker, I want to see what's going on with the knee. Jonathan Williams Yarks running back. He was

limited at the Senior Bowl, wasn't a full participant. Uh, I want to see what he's able to do it. But you know, I get the question all the time about how how these invites happened to the combine. You know, how what's that process? You know when you were in an NFL uh you know, war room in front of the front office. How much input as a as a front office did you guys were able to give? You know, hey,

we want to see this guy. Yeah, we we didn't you know when my days again, I started back in in uh in nineteen ninety two working in college and then I went to the pro side of it. So when I came here, though, they were we were just starting to get involved with that, you know it really Dude bad was the one that was running the combine. And we would go with and the National Scouts, the National Scouting Combine and then blessed and then you would

have emerging You would have a meeting selection committee. A selection committee would come and say, Okay, these are the guys that we would like to submit and and and it was as a as a as a scouting unit. It wasn't as okay, the Green Bay Packers or the Dallas Cowboys. It was as a unit, we agree on

these players. Now, where are the players were different? On Okay, we would we had a high grade on this player, or we had a high grade and or we didn't have a high enough high enough grade on the other players. So yeah, it was kind of one of those things where it was a selection committee from both both scouting groups that were able to merge the list, to merge the players. Yeah, people that don't know, you know, National

and Blessed though the two big you know scouting. You know, they're they're made up of supplements to the supplements to what you have at your scouting right, they're the group that that actually submit the names, and I mean submit when you when you talk about that, uh, it's like, yeah, you could go to meetings in the spring and then you go to a meeting in the fall. A lot of the foundation were exactly they give you the names

and then it's your job. I think I think there's about twenty five teams that are are members of these two groups, not every team, but about twenty five or so. But yeah, and that's and then the selection committee they come up with the invite list. And this isn't like the Senior Bowl, where if a player is not able to participate in the Combine they call someone up. This list is final, right. Uh, you know they're not going to call anyone up because of injury or anything like that.

If they were not invited on this initial list. Uh, they're not gonna have any changes to him. Yeah, sure aren't. That's again that's Uh. I'm always interested though, And real quick though, talk about the Middle Tennessee. We know this. Uh, this team is a lot about safeties. Talk about the Middle Tennessee safety. He got snubbed in this uh, in this process as well. He did another Senior Bowl guy, Kevin Byrd. I was I thought, you know he was. I thought he's draft the Bowl. Uh, and so a

player I'd like to see at the Combine. Uh. He had an okay week in mobile. Um, you know, he had a tremendous career at at Middle Tennessee. A career leader in interceptions, career leader interception yards. Uh, he was

a playmaker. He had he had good tape. Alabama tape is good exactly exactly, So a player that I don't think stands out an you know, he's not the fastest, not the biggest, not the strongest, but he's able to be consistent because he I think he trusts what he sees and he reacts well, and he's he puts himself in the position to at least attempt to make a play. So I'm in the fifth round, yeah, and he still might go. Everything everything you said about the player I

totally agree with. And again I find it hard that they would not put a guy in, you know, fifth round type of a player that to do that based on the numbers we're getting from Dane, Like, there's gonna be some he's gonna get drafted, And I mean, you're wrong if honestly you look at it, and I know some of these teams they don't see Kevin Byard or you know, one of these other guys on the Combine list, and they're okay with it because you know, it's all right,

we'll hide him. Yeah, you know he's not gonna be on this big stage working out in front of all thirty two teams. We know will be at his pro day. We know we like the kid. We don't need to see him at the combine. You know, it's okay that he's not here. We maybe hide him a little bit. Maybe that's a few less teams that will consider drafting him. Okay, well, i'll tell you what. We're gonna take our first break

of the day and then come back. We're gonna answer a few Twitter questions for Twitter on the twenty and then I want to get into some of these players that we talked about, Like in mayok had his top five pier position. Maybe we go through some of those, maybe how we see that different. But also some guys though down in the middle of this board. So we will be right back from the SWBC mortgage studios in just a moment. Geico asks which is easier playing football

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salary for this weekly show. Um want to get into now staple that we've had for three years now again. I always give ed K. Hill credit for this one, Eddie, and I'll turn the show over to you Twitter. Twit help me. What do you got. Let's let's go quick so we can get okay. Um. Actually this is a really timely one from Arthur based on what Dane was saying right before the break. Uh more stock in take more seriously, I think I know the answer to this. But combine or Pro Day more important to you as

an evaluator, Well, I think it's they're different. With the combine, we see everyone on the same level playing field. You know. It's when when you go to different pro days and campuses you have to worry about you know, the wind, the track at the field surface, and there's so many of those things that variables they have to kind of factor into your times and different things like that. At

the combine, it's all uniform. It's all everyone's jumping at the at the same uh you know, same drill and same same every same height for the vertex, same management for the you know, it's all set up already for you. Exactly, so it's a little more consistent uniformed exactly. So I think, you know, for me, that's really beneficial because you can look at the combine numbers and you know, it's apples to apples compared to pro days, where you do have

to factor in some different things. I think a pro day is important though. If a kid doesn't do well at the combine with a top definitely, you know, so the way the way, and we're all veterans of this combine. We've seen them push and pull and do this. Players don't get any rest. It's a very difficult three or four days for them. And the fact that they can maybe run a better time at their school always gives me a little bit of psychological help. People are clearly

listening to us because we've talked about this. So Steve wants to know deepest position in this draft besides defensive tackle. Two positions I think stand out to me linebacker yep, and wide receiver. That's fair, and I think we've been spoiled the last two years with the wide receiver classes. Two years ago is amazing, last year is really good, and this year is really good as well. And we might only have one wide receiver draft at top twenty,

top twenty five this year Laquon Treadwell. But then the second round there's like seven or eight guys. You got to consider it your luck sorting that at right exactly. So I think wide receivers a pretty deep group. And why I think we could see Treadwell maybe slip to the teens because you know, if you don't keep that receiver in the first round, you're gonna have a lot

of options in the second round. So even if Treadwell doesn't go to the teens, I don't think it's Yeah, I think it's less about him, more about you can get a later. Cornerback is another one for me. Corner Cornerbacke And depending on exactly depending on if you like Hargraves and Alexander Shorter guys there they'll be the top guys. And then but you can look at Robertson Apple, Howard,

William Jackson, Mills candidate. I mean there's a list of guys that I'm just talking that we're second, third round type of guys. I think this thing goes down. I mean I've got a guy like, uh, you know, Harlan Miller. Yeah, I've got him like a fourth round He's a top one hundred, Yeah, top one hundred type of players, So there's some depth I think in the cornerback spot as well. I'm a little surprised at least to hear you say linebacker, because I mean, I'm like, we're fixated on Jack. Obviously

Smith is there, but he's hurt. And then maybe Darren Lee. I know you've got him pretty highly rated. But after oh yeah, wow, that's all. I totally forgot about Reggie. But yeah, I feel first round guy exactly like once you get past the elite guys that won't be there in the second round. I haven't heard a whole lot of talk about Deon Jones. I mean there's some guys that are like middle undersize to me, Jones brothers a coup with guys that are really good football players. But

where do you take him, right? I mean that to me, where do you feel comfortable? Day two? I think we're gonna see something. Joshua Perry from Ohio stage a lot. I think he's a three down player. He's just a Day two guy. Uh you know he mentioned brothers Dion Jones. I yeah, he's in that third round mix. Jordan Jenkins. Yeah, and that's where we need to separate the pass rushers from the off ball line. But I think of him more as a defensive end in mind seven pounds and

then you know, like like guy like Scooby. Right. You know, I'm not high him and I don't think you are either, but I think he's gonna end up going somewhere in the third round. So you know, I think these linebackers are It's not not the deepest group, but I think

you'll be able to find starters outside the first round. Okay, and well, which is now that's something I want to look into because if Jack isn't the guy, you still probably need lineback I mean, especially if you don't bring back another one that meaner to see at the combines. Antonio Morrison from Florida, a player who pops off the tape, but he's had some knee issues. I really want to see what the doctors say at the combine with his knees. Aaron wants to know for the Cowboys more important to

you and this is I mean, obviously it's February. Knows there's been no signings or cuts or anything. Defensive tackle or cornerback more important to you going into this draft, I think for this team. Yeah, I answered the question

on Twitter this morning. I think someone asked me just on the side, and I felt like that with the situation with Clayborne and then also potentially car Looming, Yeah, you know, and then it's really just Scandrick now, and then do you want to you're gonna play You're gonna play Jones at corner or you get to draft potentially draft Ramsey Danny and I seem to think that Ramsey would be a better safety, you know, you know, so I mean, but the Cowboys very well might think that

he's a corner. Excellent somebody asked me this too, just a very excellent chance to say this here, which I mean, the Cowboys don't have a draft board yet, you know, we are at all they Jalen. They might love Jalen Ramsey, they probably do, but there's no there's not gonna be

a draft board March or April. I had a scout and I walked into work the other day when that all that news came out about him being Ramsey being the top on their draft board, and the scout looked at me and says, when do we get a draft board. They don't do we do we have a draft board. Now. They don't pay that thing together until what a month before the draft exactly. Yeah. So ye, like for those of y'all thinking that there's just these names on a

board right now, it's way too early for that. Well, now, if Tony would have come out and said, and it's Tony Pauline right as he's in Tony's great Tony's he'd have come out and said, Ramsey's a top rated player they have. If he would have come out, and if he wouldn't use the word board, because board tells me you've already put your names up there, and he is the number one player in the stack, right, that's what

that's where. But I completely believe that he's the guy that they think them most highly of out of all I mean, I don't have a problem thinking that right now, he's there a top five player. Yeah, he's a top five you know. And you start talking again and I keep saying this, you know, we might think he's a safety, they might think he's a corner. There's a lot of teams. I say, three quarters of the teams want to keep

my corner. Yeah, I want to because they I've talked to some clubs that play the same schemes as the Cowboys, and they're selling him as a big, a big range corner. They want the next Richard Sherman. Yeah, that's what everyone wants anyway. Tell you what he's gonna Ramsey's gonna blow up the combo. I mean, this is a guy that could train for the Olympics if he wanted to, and a long jump and a few other drills. I think

he's gonna test really well. And for his size, I mean, Tony might be right when they set their board well and how boys will be lucky if he's there at for and he might not even be. He's gonna he's We don't talk about defensive backs as contenders for the number one overall pick. And I said this over the summer when I was I was working on him. I

took him flak for it. He's worthy at the number one overall pick because if you take what you want in a linebacker, a safety, in a corner, and you combine it in the one player I think you get, you have Jalen Rams. It's this why we like Miles Jack too, because of all the combinations of things playmaker, yeah, I mean well yeah, and the sheer variety of things he can do, right, I mean you're not you bill him as a linebacker, but he can handle like two

or three other roles. There's so many things. There's people will fight you on the fact of the lack of experience. People will fight you on that. Sure, they'll say twenty five games. Jim Moore, his coach, even said that. So, I mean that piece of the puzzle. I mean you have to factor it in somewhat. I mean, you know, it's just like Carson Wentzet the factor in that uh, you know, only a two year starter and most of

every start except for one was against FCS competition. As part of the puzzle that you have to you know, factor into these guys. It's it's it's what makes scouting, Uh, You're really enjoyable for us because it's you know, you have to pop the hood, figure out what's going on. I'm gonna take some time before we go to Indie and just write down some notes about what the storylines are right now, you know, and see how it changes. We have a great opportunity we would go to Indie.

We get to do our draft shows, every night to kind of wrap up today. But the fact that you get to sit down and we're gonna get to visit Oh yeah, you know, we get to visit with UH, with these UH, these linebackers and Blair and you know, you know, you can can get a little bit idea what kind of kids they are. One more thing about

talking about Jalen Ramsey and what position is he. I think that's one of the biggest thing with scouting UH is fit because a player can you know, be an NFL starter for one team and then struggle to act to starting lineup in another because this team understands how to use him while this other team doesn't. You know, dem Buchan and out of Washington State, I did not. I didn't know. I'm with you on that. I didn't have him in the first few rounds. Arizona takes the

first round and he's playing really well for them. About it, Yeah, the way they use him, they identify his strengths and they use them in that way. But if he goes to another team and they try to pigeonhole him as you know, a deep safety or you know whatever, he's not going to be a successful I think there's a lot of guys like this in this class and thought with Jeremy Cash and Suet Cravens, Miles Jack. I mean, you have to use them to their strengths to get

the most out of them. And for a guy like Miles Jack, that's not hard to figure out what his strengths are, but so much about the draft process and where they end up in their rookie years and how they progress his NFL pros. It's they're fit and how coaches use them. So uh, it's just it's something to watch with guys like Ramsey and Jack and see where they land and how that could project to you know, whether or not they have instant success in the NFL.

We want to keep going or okay, all right, I'll give you one, right, all right, I got too quick, quick quick Trevor. And you know, Elliott's the first round running back Trevor. Uh, he's got Booker, Collins, pro Sie and Dixon. We've talked before about the log jam at running back, kind of like y'all said with receiver. Yep,

how do you see that playing out? It's it's interesting because you know, different you talk to different people, they have different preferences for these second round guys, and we've seen in the last few years. Uh you know Bishop Sanky coming off the board. I think he was the first running back, you know, two years ago in that second round. Uh you know, just different teams like these,

different running backs and differi style, different styles exactly. Uh. You know, we look at this year with Derrick Henry, uh with he didn't mention Derrick Hendry, Right, No, Well, depending on who you talk to, he's must be following me on Twitter. He's either number thirty four or number eighty depending on who you ask. Yeah. So well we'll get into that. We'll talk about some of these backs coming up though, But I I I totally agree with you on the how you see these The wild card

guy to me is procise. Yeah, you know he hasn't. This is gonna sound funny because here I want to take a guy in Jack who hadn't played a lot of plays, and I'm gonna turn around, I'm looking at pro Sis. It's only Billy'd been a running back from one year yeah, and not even a year. Yeah. I mean he moved in the running back before yeah, and and so, but there's just something intriguing about him. Now,

I agree with the Dixons, the Bookers. I agree with that, but there's something very intriguing to me about Procis and what he could do for a team. He's a physical dude. I like him. Yeah, and he's a little too big at time six one, two twenty and he's a big target for defenders to hit. He's got something to him there, He's got he has that something that that to me

that Henry doesn't have. Yeah, that the go. He doesn't need an airport running, he doesn't need a runway out there DFW to get quickness and that second birth to go there you go. All right, I'm gonna try to keep this on track this one, Brian, I think don't know. This seems like a dumb question on the surface, but I don't think it is. Free agency hasn't happened yet. Obviously there's pieces of every team that are going to come together that aren't there right now. Mike wants to know,

how does that affect your draft strategy? I mean, for you know, for instance, let's let's say they signed two defensive ends in free agency. Your defensive end position still looks a lot better than than it does now. Does that affect your desire to take Bosa or you know, yeah and whoever. I mean psychologically it would. But if but you have to give these guys their due, you if both, if you owe it to yourself, whoever your top players are, if you great, great, great, the great

the position, put the board up. You've got some guys signed. People get tired of me saying this a learner from Ron Wolf there with the Packers. It just add another player, you know, if you feel good going to add another player, if Bosa is your best player, do you feel like long term, Maybe these free agents aren't the long term. Maybe they buy I'm fished for a couple of guys. Yeah, maybe it's not. Maybe it's a one. Maybe it's a

Jeremy Mincy. You know, if you go out and get if they go out and get the Miami Dolphin, they get that kid Vernon or somebody. Let's say they don't bottom fish. Let's say they get a real then it's a little bit different. But this team tends to bottom fish, that's true. And when they bottom fish, I'm not thinking, I'm thinking bridge players. They're in mind to have more caps face this year than they've had. Absolutely, we wrote about this morning the mailback. They lessen a million dollars

of dead money. It's unbelievable. They have got fishing on the mind. Yeah watch me, but you know to me Mincy the bridge player, right, it helps Bosa walk over the bridge to get into the job. Or Randy Gregory, I feel you. I think, I mean, we don't know what's gonna happen. They could free up a decent chunk if you go, if you go big time and you go out and spend money, and you go out and get one of those affect your draft you got and you go out get Miller. You got to get the

running back milk. Then all of a sudden, I'm like, you know what, I love pro Sie, but guys, she's gonna go play somewhere else. Ye sure, you know it's psychologically you up. Does that affect your board though? Like do you move pro Sie down your board? Put your board up? Put your board up? Okay? Good, yeah, all right, good, all right? Uh god, I want to get into I

want to get into. Uh like, say Mayok put out his top five per position, and I wanted us to talk about our top five per position, and uh, I'm sure we can you know, I know that you could go on and NFL dot com and look at his his list. But with our group, I want to talk about what we would have. And I'm just gonna go through and this position. Again. You can go and look at Mayo. There's some things that you know that I don't agree with him about, and that's fine. He probably

wouldn't agree with mine. But I want to put out our top five by position, and and Dane Um and Dave you can chime in. You've seen somebody, Yeah, yeah, well I'm gonna let y'all do the heavy lifting. Yeah, we're gonna but but but feel free, Dane, we talk about these wide receivers. Yeah, give me your top five wide receivers on your board right now. And then if we have a little time, then maybe a guy down the line that you're kind of you know, maybe you're

six or seventh or eighth guy Treadwells one. I think we both agree there. Uh, I think we disagree at number two right away. Corey Coleman to me, I I use some fun discrepancy here, not the biggest, but uh, the dude's explosive. And Corey Coleman, I know you watch him on tape and he's it's unchallenged routes. He's running basically four rountes. That's it, right, and so there's a projection there, but there's just too much skill level for me to believe that he uh, you know, you won't

be a big time player. I think Corey Coleman's the second one, second wide receiver. Michael Thomas is three. Yeah, Michael Thomas is two for me. Okay, he's three for me. So we are we're right there with him like first early, second, right, um, and then four I'm I'm know I'm ahead of I'm not ahead, but different than a lot of people. Farall Cooper from South Carolina's my number four wide receiver. I

see a Randall Cobb type. I think he can be an impact player for you in different ways that fifth spot. This is what I struggle with because this is we talked about wide receiver being a deep class. My fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth. I mean they're all very close, very close, and so you know we're talking about Rashad Higgins from Colorado State, Will Fuller, Dockson TCU, Sterling Shepherd, Braxton Miller, Tyler Boyd and these guys are all closely rated in that second round.

It's hard. I mean it's kind of like, you know, what kind of wide receiver do you want? In terms of you know, who's gonna be your fifth guy? Yeah, I would go. My order would be Treadwell Thomas at two. I love this description. I went Dockson at three. I went Kenny Lawler from cal as number four and Braxton Miller as number five. I'm gonna get you guys to like Lawler one day. Where do you have where you

have Corey Coleman. I don't have Corey Coleman. I don't like his I don't like ninth on here you got him as a third round? Great, Yeah, I don't like his. His lack of heights scares me about five nine and a half. Yeah, I mean you're not wrong. So again I just feel like though that to me a little bit bigger receiver. I know a lot of people like Coleman. That's just me, you know, But I wanted to get into that. Okay, let's talk about let's go with offensive

tackles here. I've skipped out well I shouldn't skip over the tight end, so I've only done four myself. But who is your who? Is your give me your just give me your tight ends and if you could real quick hunter, Henry, He's not gonna give you much as a blocker, but as a receiver, he's not gonna drop the ball. And he has rod acceler I agree with you on that. He's at two for me. Second round. Nick Vannette was my number two tight ends, better all around player and your Bowl guyner Bowl guy three. I

have Duarte us UCLA. Okay, you didn't play him at wide receiver. We watched him last night. I play wide receiver, plays slot. I've got him slide at at tight end. Okay, he's twenty five six two, and I think he's gonna get a little bigger. I think you can do some different things with them, so you know, put him in the backfield, do some different things. Duarte's and my number

three tight end Austin Hooper from Stanford a really vanilla guy. Yeah, but and sometimes that's what you need or you know, and talking fourth round, that's not a bad player. Fifth, fifth, and sixth are kind of very closely rated. Henry Krieger Kobel from Iowa, another senior Bowl guy, and then Tyler Higby from Western Kentucky should have been at the Senior Bowl, but an injury kept him mouth. The injury is really keeping him from being a lock top five tight enda

Geral Adams does nothing for you at all. I like him in the later rounds, but besides going down the scene, yeah, it doesn't give him much. Okay, offensive tackle obviously, Larry Tunsel number one. Who is the best player in this draft in my opinion, Ronnie Stanley is my number two. Taylor Taylor, Decker three, Decker two and Stanley three, and that's you won't be the only one. I think some teams around the league will have that as well. Different

very different players. Four of Conklin, Ryk and State is that your number five? And then number five Sean Coleman, Jason Spriggs, those two guys in that mix. Spriggs, I know he was voted the best offensive line with the Senior Bowl. He didn't impress me in mom No, you know, I think he has the body control the size that you want. He can kick slide, but you run right at him. You know, Sheldon Day showed that you can go right through him. It's kind of the opposite of

Jack Conklin. You you can maybe go around them, but you're not going through Jack Conklin. Right with Spriggs, You're not gonna go around him, but you can go through him. And so Spriggs I really worry about, you know, him translating to the pro game. I don't. I don't think he'll be able to start as a rookie. Um, so I think that hurts him. And then Sean Coleman, you know we know a story cancer survivor, right, but he's a from you from Texas A and m first round

feet everything else. Uh, you know, it's a question mark. So I've got him in the third round, but he's not my This is where this is where the switch is here. I think he I think he's a third round player, but he would be my number five guy though. Over Spriggs. Real quick, yeah, real quick. We're gonna take a break, and I mean you take a break. Let's come back. Yeah, let's come back, and then we'll pick this back up and hustle through some stuff and get

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the clock here at the Draft Show. Brian broad Us Dame Brugler, David Hellman, Kent Garrison, executive producers and you out there listening. We appreciate that we were getting into our top five. Mike may I put his five out. We're gonna put our five out. That's something that is you evaluate these players. You can't be afraid to do that. Uh, you know, be willing to do the work and uh

put it out there. And if everybody's willing to do the work, you should have some some good disagreements if you can with the h with the into the still in the offensive line here. Uh, guards is what we're looking at right now. Center guards. You can combo him if you want, or you can individual him if you want. Which one do you got? Let's do individual? Okay, Number one couldy white Hair. That's pretty clear cut for me

this year is Zach Martin. He's not quite as gift as his acc but uh that call left tackle moving inside to guard, he can start right away, So to me, that's not just stay right right. Yeah. Josh Garnett from Stanford, Um, you know he's he's kind of in that second round range right after Christian Westerman Arizona State needed to everybody needs to take a look at your Christian Western player,

A really good player. Uh really, the you watch Arizona State, that offensive line was not very good except for that left guard right Westerman is a good player. Denver Kirkland junior from Arkansas. I've got him in my top five. And then Joe Dahl from Washington State who had a pretty nice week at the Senior Bowl. Um, it's another college left tackle moving inside. I think he's in that mix. Yeah, last night you saw the kid from Boise though. Yeah,

any thoughts about him? Is he more of a I think he's a borderline top one hundred guy at late third, early fourth, and he's in the top ten, didn't quite make the top five, but he's always going to mess up his name, Ohiam Mabou something like that. Yeah, yeah, you're close. Your strength, it's not my strength. They're absolutely right about that though. And then also though, did you have Alex sanderd All from LSU He was number six for me? Um, I like him, don't love him. I

have got him in the third. Yeah, so don't love him, don't let what do you'll like about him? This is purely like, No, it's fine, You're you're on the draft show for four year player, three year starters playing right tackle in college. That's not good for me. I don't like that, and you don't want to plug him in time. Don't think he play guards? Oh? I mean he could play guard for sure, Um, but he you know, he just never inspired me with his play. Yeah. And obviously

you're talking about two different positions, right, he didn't. Actually I think he did spend some time at guard. He was a guard, yeah, but he never I mean this is not Lyle Collins. Obviously, like Collins was a top ten prospect. I know he never did anything. And I'm always down on the LSU guys. I'm with you too, but I get ever, except for Robertson, we'll get to that one. How about your centers. I think there's, uh, there's a good center class. I think it's a really

good class. I think all five of these guys could potentially start. Ryan Kelly from Alabama's number one fan of his. Yeah, I think he can be a top forty player. Uh. Draft pick Nick Martin number two. There you go there? Yea in that late second maybe early third round range guard or center. Third. I have Jack Allen Michigan State. Well you're preaching right, you're going right down my line. Good at fourth Max Turk from USC, I went to Missouri kid. He's my number five, okay, so we flip

them bow him evan, bam, bam. Gotta see one day I'm gonna get these names. Just it's okay, But then I don't get him right, just the oe does not. You wouldn't say bow him there you ever. I mean, it's always going to be like an a kind of sound always well actually except for Boeing, I guess yeah, there you go. That's smart old Yeah, I almost called you something else. Yeah, okay, we flipped the Missouri kid and and we flipped the USC kid fourth round range

for yeah, yeah, absolutely, okay. Quarterbacks, all right, now, okay, this is I'm curious to hear if you rather want to go running back, we do quarterbacks last no, no, no, no, no, I want to I want to hear this. Jared Goff is my number one, okay, and when my number two. But they're touching, I mean I think tags are touching. Golf is like nine overall in my board, Wentz is ten. Okay, So when when people ask on Twitter, we said when the tags are touched. And that's what we mean. You

could you could go either way right there. And so if golf comes off the board, and I'm not too upset because I know I can get wentz Um. Packson Lynch is my number three. I like Packson Lynch quite a bit. I just he's so it's such a projection there right, so young in quarterback years that in three, three to five years from now, Packison Lynch might be the best quarterback from this class. But it's such a projection that I'm going with the other two guys ahead

of them. Okay, and who was your four or five? Connor Cook and Hackenburgh. But I mean a lot of confidence in Connor Cook. Here he sounded. Did you hear how unhappy he grudgingly? I mean, because Connor Cook he can start in this league. But he just has a to me, has as such a low ceiling. Um. I don't see him being this. This impacts every time you watch tape and something with Connor Cook, you're watching someone

else playing, the ball goes flying over someone's head. I go, oh, we want we who were watching last night that defensive tackle? Thank you? We're watching an Indiana defensive tackle and they played State and like, Nope, there was no ball that hit a guy on the numbers ever ever, and that's why he never hit fifty nine percent completions. I mean, it's in his career. Just get him out of here.

I got Lynch, I've got golf, I got WinCE, I've got number three would be a Winch is three, four is Hackenburg, and five is Brandon Alec at the High Riser right there. I like, I like third and round grade on Brandon Allen. Yeah, okay, which, and I'm not just doing that because of See I went back and watched him and he was the best. There's something. There's something there there for those of y'all they're there there who are not watching the camera feed. It's weird, like

I think of us as being on camera. But I was listening to last week's show on my phone and it's weird like hearing it where it's just audio. Anyway, Brian's got this thing broken down by grade by round. Yeah, which, Okay, here's the curious thing. I mean, you've you've said before you think Cook is a first round pick, right. I think he could for a team like like the Texans, A plausible at least I hope so, and you, uh, Hackenburg maybe too right, you've said maybe, yeah maybe, If not,

he's going to go in the second round exact. So you've got the big three who are all probably top fifteen picks, and then your next guy's got a third round grade. Yeah. Do you think that that's true? Do you think that'll hold up? That's my board, that's what you think. That's my asking you. If you really think there won't be a I wouldn't put it on that paper if I didn't believe that was the case. That's this is your opinion. That's my board. But do you

think that Christian has gone? That's what I'm saying. Oh yeah, that's my crazy I just I just proved to you I don't window dress my board. That's true, but that's what I do. So you think that they're you think all these highly paid teams to that do this professionally their boards. If they do, they deserve to have a bad draft as soon as the second rounds over the first picking. That third round, I think we're gonna have five, maybe six quarterbacks off the board that is the top three.

This is terrifying to me. This is important. If you're talking about the Cowboys. But then again, I'm sitting you're doing radio with you too, I might not know what the hell I'm talking about. I mean we're saying we've all it takes is one team to like a cord

You no doubt about that. If you look at the Cardinals and you know they like a guy like Christian Hackenburg or Cardell Jones, a player we haven't talk about, I mean they like him the late second, we're gonna take him, all right, we gotta move along here, all right, Yeah, that's fast, all right. I mean that's my board. Cardel Jones and Connor Cook you got in the fourth round. They're both gonna be gone by pick. I don't care, Okay, I don't care, all right, I really don't care. It's

what I watched. Since I watched the tape I've got, I've got a four five on Hackenburg fourth fifth, So I mean that's when I would he didn't like Hackenburg scares the crap out of me. Yeah, talking about mediocre players that are gonna go in first teams, busting the drafts all the time. What if the Cowboys doing not? It's terrified that we don't want to four twelve was not fun to cover last year. I don't. Okay, running back, we've kind of talked about the running back, so just

go through the names. Yeah, Zeke clear Cut number one, I've got Derreck Henry two, I've got a second round. Really okay, okay, all right, that sounded mean. I'm sorry. I just I'm surprised by your surprise. He's just big, that's all he is. It's all he does for me. He doesn't have breakaway speed. He needs what he needs

five yards of space. He had a steam thank you Jeff Kavanov with the runaway long all of Like, yeah, he's got impressive stats and stuff because he got more carries as a college player than most pro running backs ever do like, go ahead and finish, Dame. No, I he's what he's coming off, like, he's legitimately coming off like what a four hundred carry season in college? And I mean, people who love analytics have to hate that. Sure, well he's already got stupid mileage on him for twenty

one Alabama. It's just hate for Alabama. For Alabama, then you must not like Kenneth Dixon because he was a four year starter and he's got fair I mean that's a fair point. But I with Derek Henry, I've seen him, you know, make himself small through holes. I've seen him, you know, have that breakaway speed, the second level runaway from linebackers. He has some quickness to him. He can't he's not he's not a big creator, but we've seen him do it here in spurts. To me, he can

catch um all the backfield. He can pass protect. I've got a second round grade on him, a solid second. I think that's where's gonna end up. Going tast two hundred and fifty pounds. He'd better be able to pass protect. He does. He does the tape. I mean, where do I have him? You have him in the late third round? Yeah, I mean, all right, that's okay. He makes some really good points, though you know what I'll say this tech.

I mean, and we've talked about this before. Second round is second round, but I feel a lot better about him at like sixty than thirty four. Yeah, not drafting that thirty four. I agree, And that's why you know it's hard always the second round. Wait a minute, now, you wouldn't take him with thirty four. Well, no, there's a big difference between thirty four. You know, yes, early second round, but every second round you're even whatever you're

about to say, you're wrong. There is a difference. I've got to say, Robert Blair or this guy Blair. But when you stop, I've got a second round grade on him. Yes, but when you stack up all your second round grade, yeah, altogether, Henry's not going to be the top second grade you have. He'll be towards the five Kenneth Dixon the second round, don't I you do? Yeah? Okay, go ahead. So what

are your top five? I got? I would Elliott, Yeah, Dixon, Booker, pro Scis, and Jordan Howard and with in with and with the runway leader. This is the sixth guy the UNA. I like it, no, because I'm with you on Jordan Howard. He's my number three, behind Zeke and Henry and then I Booker, Dixon and pro Sys. So I think we have the same type s or yea top six, just different order. Yeah, we'll see how that all plays out. Okay, let's go these defensive ends left and right defensive ends

got him number one, Bosa, mm hmmm, we're disagreeing. Off the top right, off the top, Oh, you got number one. I took Spence okay, as a pass rusher, sure, as an all around player. Give me Bosa all day, okay. And they're liable to take Bosa, and I have a problem with it. Spence. I like him as a pass rusher, but I just worry about you can run at him. I mean, you know, you can put put him in the game and he can't get to the quarterback. Oh, he can get to the quarterback if he's playing left end.

Let somebody else get to the quarterback. It's fine, Bosa can control the game. Oh wait a minute. Now, we're picking up just a left end at four. I think, like, I mean, obviously we're we're gonna need to talk about this Bosa guy, which I mean, I have no problem with him taking Bosa. I just think you're gonna get a really, you're gonna get a good player, not a great player. It's early, but don't you just kind of

think he's gonna be there? Oh? Sure he is. And and get ready when they hand that card we're gonna have We're gonna be our coverage. Get ready on Dallas Cowboys dot com. I actually I'm sorry, Dane will be one. Yes, I mean it's February is too early for predictions. But if Bosa is on the board, I will say it right. If bos is on the board of four, on the board of five. Actually, here's the thing. I don't disagree with you. I don't know that February is too early

for predictions. If you're days right, if you're if you're picking fourth. And that's kind of why I asked that question earlier. If they go out and get somebody in free agency, maybe then you're not talking about it. Changes to play Lawrence on the right side. If you have Lawrence over yeah, I don't think boss are primarily a left and I think he can do. I want guys that can play both, and I think Lawrence and Bosa can play both. What about Bosa backing up at tackle too.

He can do that jump inside. People talk all about sacks, and that's fine. You know, will both to be a double digit sack artist? I don't think so. But he's still it's all about impact. I got. I took a lot of grief for saying he's Greg Ellis because of the sack numbers he's better. But okay, look at no no, no, no no, no, But the sack numbers, look at what von Miller. Okay, very different players. Von Miller this year he had eighteen twenty sacks he had eleven. Yeah, oh,

I mean, sack numbers can be deceiving. Von Miller impacts the game each snap, but you know, we get focused on these sack numbers. At Bosa, he yes, he had five sacks. They look at his quarterback, hurries his tackles for a loss the tape. He's double and tripled teams. He impacts the game on every snap. And so give me a guy like that kicking side on third downs. I love Joey Bosa. That makes me feel a lot better because I'm I mean, and I'm sitting here thinking,

at least a good player. I listen to you too much is the problem, because I'm so he's a good player. If you're picking fourth, I want I want what I don't want, he and he and he wants he wants sex, and okay, if you get but if he can do the things he's saying, that's worth it. Who would you take other than Bosa at four? Well, I mean top

four players when you're looking at Ramsey, okay, Jack, okay, Bosa? Right, I mean Tonsil's my number one guy, but I'm not taking my four Okay, okay, well then eliminate, eliminate him, then eliminate for the count, eliminate Tonsil. Right, who would you be the most happy with that? Of those three you just now? I mean, if I'm sticking to my board to be Jack, my number two player, my top four players, now I'm excited day Jack Zo Now I'm happy about it. I can't argue with that. And actually

he made great points. I know that tread Will's still my guy. But the more we the more we look at this, and you've talked about it before, the more you realize like the quality of the players that are still gonna be there when they pick, It's hard to

justify a wide receiver there. I mean like you're gonna have a pick between probably at least two of those three guys, and then you throw in the mix that it's highly likely that either it's definitive that one of the two of Goff or Wentz will be there, So then you throw that into the mix. You's gotta hope Cleveland takes wins if because golf in play as as anti taking a quarterback at four, as I am, if Goff is there at four. I think that has to be the guy. But that's just how about those guys.

K Garrison or executive producer, gave me fifteen more minutes of this show, so let's let's good conversation. Sorry, we got, we got, and we'll do We'll get through this and take one or two calls at the end, but we got fifteen more minutes of the show and then we're gonna Wenna call it a day. So okay, I've got I got Spence Bosa, I've got Shack Lawson as number three. I put Ronald Blair at four and Kevin Dott at five. Shoot holes in my my deal. I've got Buckner listed

as a d end. Uh. You know he's gonna be different for every team. For some teams he'll be inside. I think he's probably best than three four. Yeah, that's that's kind of why I eliminated, I think exactly. So Buckner's on my defensive end board, Shack Lawson or Bosa Buckner. Uh, I've got Spence a linebacker, so he's it's a little different there. Uh. Your board is primarily reflecting a four three. I played a fourth three ski I played a fourth three Skime uh, Dodd and then Blair okay five, yeah,

Blair at five, Yeah, I love you good? All right? Six man, anybody taken a fi all more than he's he's good. He's just there's no distinguishing trait there. You know he's good. Just you watch this white hair maul him to the point where he had to move over, beat up on that right tackle. But yeah, okay, defensive tackles. We got the ones in the three in my scheme. Now this is we'll definitely disagree here, just because there's you know, you could ask five different general managers. You're

gonna get to five different orders. I don't think I don't think I'm disagree with you here, Okay, go ahead, shoot it. Number one, I've got Geron Reid. Yep, he disagrees with I disagree with the number two of Sheldon Rankins. I have n't was number two. I haven't been number two, okay. Three of Candici, I have him number one, okay, And he's a top ten talent, Robert him Dici. I like what you said about him last week, though, what's that he I don't trust him at all? Ye, yeah, it's

hard to he's top ten talent. But he's not one of the top ten football players, doesn't. Yeah, And so at some point he's worth it. What's that point? It's kind of like Randy Gregory last year. At some point he's worth it. But you know where's that? Do you be surprised if somebody took him in the top ten? Very surprise, top fifteen, very surprise? Really? Is so you're saying he pulls a Gregory and false to thirty four?

Is he the slider? Then? Is he the slider? I think back half a round one is where we're gonna say it's early and with a guy like this, it's it's delicate. We have to, you know, the combine be interesting. What do you got who gets picked for? Spence or old Man? All right, Spence apostaid old miss you did? It's okay. I think Spence is a little more cut and dry in terms of his issues. I mean he had so you think Spence goes before Kim d Yeah,

very strongly. That is an indictment on Robert Candici right there. Well, it's not just the off field, it's he can be great, but how much does he want to be great? And if even if you have to ask that question that's an issue. I watched three or four games of his tape with Brian and like, there's no denying his ability, but I just like, I don't, Yeah, you don't. I don't see it. Every in thirty three starts he had seven sacks, and I just got done saying how Saks

can be deceiving. But it shows on tape. I mean, the production does not match the ability. You talk about, and you talk about impacting the play on every snap, but I never saw that from me. You see flashes, yeah, but there's no consistency, and you just wonder how much he loves the game. But again, the talent is so great that that's why he's number one for you, he's number three for me. So if you just grade the tape, yeah, if you just grade the tape and don't know about

the person, he's not a number. He's not the he's not the like. It wouldn't be that. I think you said it though, and I'm just trying to clear it up. Though. He is a top ten talent, just not a top ten football player. I'm not. What scares me is what he said, and we need to figure this out. What about does he really love football? I don't think that.

That scares me a little that I hated me. I hate saying that about my scout came in and said, hey, Brian, I really don't think this guy loves That's like that would bother me a top. It's like box material for me. I don't want quotes. I don't want dudes who don't like football. That's terrible. Well, and it's some guys. Will you know he is some guys on this team. You know they they they it's a paycheck. Oh, you know every team in the league has guys. Exactly. It's fair.

But what's his value? And that's where you have to factor it in at some point the draft. He's worth it. But what's that point? Whould you have Billings? My number five four is a Shawan Robinson. Five is Billings at Billions at three? Okay, is Billings a guy that we might see at thirty four? I think? So you've been doing a little snooping around with scouts, haven't you. I mean, not these scouts, but scouts around these defense It comes

back to this defensive tackle class. I mean not everyone is as high on Billings as a short I think a lot. Yeah, and you know he ends up on the ground because of that. He the injury this year hurt him. I think a little bit um. But when you look at these defensive tackles, it's a it's a miss. It's different for every team. You look at the defensive tackle board in the late first round, early second round. That's why I'm not drafting defensive tackle top fifteen in

his draft. No, I'm gonna get one in the late first, early second, especially the Cowboys. You can come away if I come away with Bosa and Billings first two rounds. See, that's what I was going to ask, you build that defensive line, and I think that's entirely possible. Maybe not maybe not Billings, but a defense I think. I think anybody paired with Billings makes it. You know, the names he gave you, whether it's Jack, whether it's Treadwell, whether

it's you know, whoever it Bosa, whoever it is. I do not think you're I think you're pretty happy about that. I know it doesn't necessarily work this way, but I can't. Isn't it just hard for you to imagine them spending back to back like top fifty picks on defensive linemen, especially a defense team of Super Bowl. Just did it? Rod Marriage say, football teams, I said them, you know what if your board I think, I think what's going to happen at thirty four? That board's gonna point him

right that defensive tackle. I'm saying that right now in February. Defensive line. I think that's it. And upgrading the defensive line helps your corners, it helps everyone else on the defense. So absolutely, But who are your six through ten? Real quick? Because this defense down class really deep? Yeah? Who do you got six or ten? That's that's when you get into the Butlers, you get into Austin Johnson, you get into Reader Ridgeway as a guy. Robinson, I'm just naming

the guys. You're You're right about the depth. I don't think there's as many three techniques form my scheme, whereas I think there's I think there's You love when I talk about one time, it's the only thing you ever say. I love techniques, Malie Collins, Yeah, technique possibly in a third round, Yeah, Sheldon Sheldon Day. Rod Marinelli used him as a defensive in Yeah. That. I didn't see that one coming. Like Marinelli is gonna be like, no, no,

we don't need they're not at thirty four. We'll get the Notre Dame kid in the four round like that's and and then you're interviewing him and you're talking to him like this, he's a bargain hunter. That's I mean, Nick, how about how about some players. I'm just saying, we're lining them up for you. I agree with everything you're saying. All I'm saying is I just can't imagine them ending that I have a pick on a defensive tackle because they haven't done it. Ever. Where do you have Washington,

Adolphus Washington or ten? You don't like him as much? No, that it speaks to the depth of this defensive tackle group. He's one of my three techniques though. Yeah, I mean, I've got a solid two on him. But he's number ten on my list because there's guys like Vernon Butler, who's a late one, early two, number six on my list. So I and Ridgeway is in there. Malie Collins, DJ Reader, uh, Chris Jones from Mississippi State, interesting, Austin Johnson, Kenny Clark,

his defensive tacle classes were pretty okay. Linebackers all right, I've got Miles jack one there we go even if Jalen Smith was healthy, that's off of the draft show today. We'll see you next week. Even Jalen Smith is hell mouth on it, it's never gonna happen. Just okay for you. Is Jalen Smith healthy? Miles Jack still your one linebacker? Yeah? I mean when I watched him both, it was Jack and Smith right there again, Tax touch Yu Tauch. I've got Spence in that mix as well, and then Ragland

and Darren Lee my top five. Yeah, where I where I got it kind of messed up is with Jack Smith, Raglan, and then I had those two three four kind of outside. I think they're gonna they could babe say yeah fact roll and then uh Ka Korea from Poisey, Yeah, good player. Those are my two guys. I got to find a spot for them because I think they could play somewhere because I know they can rush the passer though too so kind of fact will be a nice tight end.

Tell me about Darren Lee though, because I need to do I need to do Darren Lee. He's interesting because he's a richer sophomore, came out uh you know, in high school is a quarterback and then Ohio State Game of scholarship. He was a scout team safety as a red shirt. They moved to the linebacker as a freshman in two and fourteen, and he's a big part of that national title Buckeye team in twenty fourteen. Uh took over for Ryan Shazier played a similar role for that

Buckeye defense at walk out linebacker. UH and he's still very young in linebacker years, but UH, the talent is outstanding. He's he's in that Ryan Shazier quant Alexander type of mold. So late first round is a good spot form. Okay, now let's get to the cornerbacks, which can I get Do you expect the Cowboys to uh or maybe look at defensive backs because I just there's an interesting trend here on your board, which is that that's my board,

But but you pick who to watch. Yeah, So, I mean you got some gaps here, you got some positions where you've looked at eight to ten guys, you got some I mean you looked at a lot of wide receivers, and then you've looked at every cornerback and safety in the draft. I mean, like, seriously, probably there's more I have to do. You've probably done thirty as opposed. I'm would tell you what how many I need? I need

to do some work on that top corner. You've looked at about six offensive tackles and you've looked at about thirty five defensive backs. It's just just the way the board did trying to tell me something. I don't feel like you're trying to do. You know, the drill what we do. Dane comes in, Katie Kims and Jeff comes in, and I let them pick a player. I think you have an idea though, No, okay, all right, I don't have an idea. Okay, I'm here doing the draft show

with you. Okay, you like Hargraves, don't you. I have a problem with me liking Hargraves. That's that's well, you're right, he remember on corner. Isn't he played small? You're right, you're right. And you know what? And and that when I when I talk about window dressing my board, and I had him. He was one of the first guys I did and I started, and every time I see him on tape now I go, Okay, he's my number one corner on the s board, and I need to

figure that out. And and and in February. I'm admitting right now that I that if you if of all the first round guys I have, there's eighteen names or so, he's the one I have the least amount of confidence

that I have him in the right spot. Right after the season ended, the players were cleaning out their lockers and I was talking to Orlando Scandrick about his rehab and stuff, and we were just kind of joking around for before I left, and I was he said some about getting him some help at cornerback, and I was like, yeah, Hargraves kid, and even maybe we'll get you some help in the backfield. And he says, I better not spend that high of a pick on a cornerback who's shorter

than five ten. Yeah, And I go, you're shorter than five ten And he goes, I was a fifth round pick. Yeah. That's a lot of general managers in the league that think the same way. Well, I, I, you know what, and that shame on me for growing up in a program in Green Bay that did that and that, and and I should know better. But if you ask me right now who the player I have the I have the boast trouble with where he and that and thank god, I got seventy something days to change up. I need

to figure that out well. And it makes it tough because Hargraves, you know, not the biggest guy, but he's tough, he's competitive, he's smart. You know, the term coach's son gets overused, but his dad's linebackers coach for Arkansas, and he grew up with the game. He grew up around it very just well ingrained in his mind how to play the cornerback position. So Hargraves is a good player, but he does play small at times. That shows up on tape quite a bit. So as a run defender,

end in coverage. Yeah, and I think that I think Mackenzie Alexander's another guy. Clemson It Clemson. You have to if you're looking at the you're looking at the top wonders. You're saying, whoa wait a minute, there's some guys in that second, third, fourth round that have some range that are taller, bigger, more physical type players. I have a feeling that we're going to see some change, you know, maybe somebody waits a little bit longer on those smaller course.

And that's I get asked all the time about Hardgraves at four for the Cowboys, and I'd keep saying, no, I don't like him in the top ten, you know, because of the size. That really worries me. I think he's a first round player though, So I don't disagree with you there. Yeah, okay, And so we get to go ahead and go through years if you would. I've got Alexander one, Hardgraves two, Eli Apple three, Kendall Fuller four,

and William Jackson five. Okay, I got Richard Robinson in there. Talent, Yes, yeah, I agree with you. And I know people are very scared about David May's wonderful alma mater who won't play football next year because we have budget problems. That's so much bold anyway. But anyway, I think I think if you, oh it's yourself, folks, to take a look at Richard Robinson, no, yeah, and just get an idea where he's it's very likely that Richard German effect. But I just love big. Did

you say you didn't say Xavier Howard? Did Xavier Howard? Did you? No? I did not heed my number six guy. Okay, I like him, keeping he's number five for me. Keep an eye on him, Baylor. Yeah, that's Okay, safety's real quick and then we and I'm gonna trying to take a couple of calls here before we finish out. Jalen Ramsey number one safety, Okay, Vaughn Bell, two, Cash, three,

and then Darien Thompson, Carl Joseph My four and five. Yeah, I went Ramsey, I went Vaughan Bell, I went Carl Joseph at three, I went Jeremy Cash at four and then kneel the safety from Florida at five is the ones I went. So it isn't Joseph is coming off. He just got hurt, didn't he. Yeah, Combine, we big for him, for him. Yeah again, here's a run hit, blow him up. Always around the ball, ball gravitates towards him. Really really wanted to see him at the Senior Bowl.

It's hard to get past the negative plays with him. That it's it's a little, it's a little. Yeah. You watch this highlight tape, yeah, first round pick. You watch the full tape and you see some of these negative plays. That's what we're I mean, I still have him in the third right because the positives are so good. I don't disagree with you, Okay, Uh, we said, thank you guys. I appreciate everybody chiming in on that. I hope everybody got a little bit of benefit out of that. Ken,

I promise you thanks for giving us fifteen minutes. And can I turned the show over you for a couple of calls a week finish. Yeah, our good friend Denny in Hawaii has been on hold the whole show. Holy, how's your time, Denny? Denny, Aloha? What we do for you? So? Um, I have I want the zy two down number four.

I don't care about you know, because I just think his impact will make the most of everybody, right, um, but um, I want to you know, I want to really sit down Marinelli and you know, really want to take read sure you know if he falls, if he falls to thirty four, because I think he can protect you know, Lee and whoever's a middle linebacker instead of you know, because because well I don't know what we're gonna do with Rolando McClean, but right like he can he can get the push and he can get the

pressure as a as a number one. And thank you so much, a lord, Danny, thank you so much. Appreciate that he likes right, Yeah, he's smart, then he's a good he knows Ezekiel is an impact player. He'll impact your team from day one. I can't disagree with anything that he said about the player. It's just when you talk about running back, you talked about value. It's tough because you're talking about the highest percentage of uh. You know, players that can get hurt. Just the guys that touch

the ball like that. It's so easy for them to get hurt. Now, Zeke doesn't have durability concerns from Ohio State. But you still just worry about investing such a high pick and a player that uh, you know, you could be gone on one player and you'd like read a lot too, don't you. I do. Yeah, And that's why if he's there at thirty four. Yeah, that card in run, that card in, we'll talk nicely. Doesn't have a huge radius of impact. But that's not much you want them for.

You want him. He will help help Crawford and I didn't help, no question about it. I can't got one more in yet, one more Sean and Nova Scotia. You got the last word, Sean, go ahead, great, thanks, I appreciate you taking my call. A couple. Brian, first off, who's your number eighteen player with the first round grade. And since it's a grating season and you guys did the job with the Cowboys, I think, Brian, you guys and the writers did a great job. But I think

you overvalued them. They weren't really a sea. They're more d's and ease. Yeah that's fair, No, that's fair. I totally, I totally agree with you. I looked at it. We gave I think we gave one player an F and that was Joseph randall right, who didn't even finish the year. That's uh, yeah, we were probably a little too nice. But hey see, I would think my eighteenth player, and

I brought it up earlier, would be hard Graves. Yeah, because that's where I have my biggest question right now is does he deserve on my board to be the in the first round? What about like your bottom three, they're obvious ones that stick out besides Hardgraves that you're you're kind of at the bottom of your of your first round board. Yeah, do you have a guy that you're surprised you have him as a first round I mean Decker? I think with Decker, because I don't I

have deckered Stanley flipped. Yeah, so Decker. No, I'm just gonna put that on record. I already told you that they'll Decker will get you'll get taken. He's not I mean, I'm not window dressed. I think he's a first round player. I'm not impressed. Okay, that's fine. That's another player I wish you would have thought the Senior Bowl. Yeah, absolutely, but yeah, so that's where I think Hargraves is my biggest Yeah, question mark right now, and I'll work on

Decker for you. Okay, we'll see. Well, listen, thank you so much, folks for calling in, thank you for the tweets, and thank you so much for allowing us to try and educate you as we begin this journey, or as we've already begun this journey. We've got a show next week from the SBbc Mortgage Studios, and then the following week we're at Indianapolis, and we'll have shows every day

from the Combine and Excited. We get there on Tuesday and finish up on a Sunday, So every day we're there, we're gonna try and have a draft show, so more opportunities for you to chime in and hopefully learn a little bit more about this NFL Draft. So for my buddies and my scouting partners for Dame Burglar, David Hellman, for Can't Carrison Executive us, I'm Brian. Thank you so much for joining us and we will see you next Friday at eleven am Central Time for the Draft Show.

Have a great day. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club