Draft Show: Combine Review; Zeke At Pick 4?

all things in NFL Draft. We're getting closer, Dane, you know how many days to the draft? It's like fifty five something like that. It's fifty some odd days. Yeah, how about that? It's March kind of crazy. Brian brought us here with Dame Bruegler from CBS Sports and Dallas Cowboys dot Com and David Hellman from Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Kent Garrison, Executive Producer, like to welcome everybody to our show today. A couple of different ways. You could get

a hold of us on Twitter. We take questions. That's our route, that's our choice at the Draft Show. If you have a question for the show, that's the best way to get involved. When we get to the twenty mark, Dave Hellman will take over the show and he will answer all those questions. We also take calls, as you notice on the right side of your screen eight eight

eight eight five five two two nine seven. That would be another way that we can get your opinion or whether you agree with us, disagree with us, or just fire general comment at us. Guys. We did just get back from the Combine and we kind of tied some things up when it was over were on when we

were done there on Saturday. But just Dane, I just want to maybe get a thought or two about the combine we all talk about, for the medical for the information or anything else stand out at the combine for you, so much information comes at you. Now a week later, we're trying to figure out all the data. What does it mean? How do we apply it? Uh? You know, do players live up to expectations? Did something fall short

the medical information you mentioned? That's really you know, we mentioned this time after time, but that's the main reason for the combine, That's why I was created, and really that's the numerous uno reason why NFL teams are so focused on the Combine is the medical information and Jalen Smith, we talked about him unfortunate. It is unfortunate. Miles Jack another unfortunate. It is it's uh, you hate it for these talented players and Miles Jack. We don't know as

much as we know about Jalen Smith. Miles Jack is a more wait and see type of type of guy, type of injury right now. But I feel like we I don't think there were any big surprises up the combine in terms of players maybe performing better than we thought. I think, you know, through all the tape study and all the draft shows we've done talked about these players right Senior Bowl. You know, I think we had a good grasp on all of them. I don't think any

one truly surprised us. But nonetheless a lot of good info here and it definitely need to go back to the tape on some of these players. Yeah, but we also talked about here on the draft show as well, these wide receivers. Everybody was making a big deal about the lack of say, time speed, right, you know, I felt like all along apparently the slowest yeah average time

in eleven years. As we've gone along here, we felt like that, you know, we've kind of again talked about that there's these receivers, you got to figure them out. They're kind of all lumped together and can they break away from each other. We feel like there's maybe a couple of guys treadwill being on the top, depending on who you like. The second guy, you know, Michael Thomas, guys like that. So you know, it was it was

not a surprise to me to see that group. I know, everybody who was watching on TV's like, oh there, and you know Mayak and those guys making a big deal about it. But when you watch the tape of these guys that there's not that with the exception of uh, you know, listen be and then also with full Fuller, you know, these guys really don't run. And I'll tell you why. Another receiver who really impressed me is Josh

Doson there you go. I mean, he we liked him on tape and it's not like it was a big surprise, but he tested much better than I thought he would. Uh you know at six two two two ran four or five flat forty one in vertical. Uh, I mean he really tested well. So I think Josh Doxson only helped himself I mean he's he was already you know, probably in that top five conversation in terms of wide receivers in his class. I think he only solidified it. And you know he has a strong case to go

in that back half around one. Okay, I was gonna ask you this question. Said that back in Indian You guys scoffed at me for whatever. Never mean to scoffed at you. What about Dodson? We scoffed at you. Oh, I'm Fuller. I'm were high on Fuller. Okay, guys are high on Fuller. Yeah, no, No, we understand Tyler. We expected to run um, you know, in the four threes or yea, because that's his game and that's his game.

And he's interesting because it's you know, he doesn't need to be a volume catcher to make an impact on a game. I mean, he can have three catches and have one hundred and twenty yards and maybe a touchdown and you know that's a quality day for him. His value in the draft is interesting to try and figure out because he isn't going to be a possession guy. He's gonna be a big play, home run threat, sure type of guy, and you can absolutely use those types.

But is he uh? Is he that much better than say, like a Terrence Williams. Yeah. I was going to ask you that question, and David Hellman, you're our Dallas cowboy expert, and he's a terrifying comparison. No, but but do you know, does this does this offense and we're talking about the Cowboys here, does this offense need a guy like a Fuller, a guy that can take the top off a defense with that ability. Does this team lack speed at the

wide receiver position? And would you consider Fuller at you know, thirty four if he was there? It's an interesting question. Yeah, I mean yes, I think this offense does lack speed. I mean, you look around. Dez is not Deaz because he's a burner, right, Terrence is fast, but he's not I mean, he's not Antonio Brown. I know he ran a slow forty at the combine. It's ironic that I say that, but he's I mean, he's not that guy

that's going to scare scare the cornerback. And then you look around and you don't have that among any of your other guys. Certainly not Darren McFadden, Certainly not Cole Beasley. Maybe Lucky Whitehead, but we have not seen him utilized in that way. And then you factor in the part where Terrence Williams is entering a contract year, and you know, I don't feel great about signing him to any type of big money deal after that. So yeah, I think wide receivers in need for this team. Thirty four is

where you kind of scare me a little bit. I just think there's so I scared you, h. I think there's needs that are bigger and that. And you know, people have been tweeting me for the last week or so that I was so high on Laquon Treadwell where you were when we started this. For the record, I still am. He's still probably my favorite just in terms of he's my favorite player in this draft, maybe in terms of guys to watch and stuff like that. But you look around at what this team needs and and

what I think they need to solidify going forward. I can't convince myself that wide receiver is a big enough need at thirty four, let alone four, which is why I've kind of cooled on Treadwell. Picture paint a picture for will Fuller for the for the fans out there, he's so outstanding at finding the ball in flight. He has that second burst, that secondary burst down field that corners a lot of these corners can't match, and so

he's able to create that separation down the field. And while he is a little more body catcher than you want, he his tiny hands, he is sable. He tracks the ball really well, and so u he has he has terrific value. I think he's probably gonna end up somewhere in the top thirty five picks. So I think it

is possible he's there at thirty. Yes, But and we we've talked about it with these wide receivers, and you know, the biggest reason not to take a Laquon Treadwell top ten is because of these this clump of receivers in the second round. You know that Josh, you know you could find a Josh Docks and a Will Fuller. Uh, there's a host of these guys in the second round that can come in and contribute. And not that they're better than Lakwan Treadwell. Treadwell is the best in this class,

but there's not a huge drop off. You can go to another position top ten, find your receiver second round. That's same thing with defensive tackle. This year, I think defensive tackle and wide receiver. That sweet spot is going to be, you know, on the twenty five to forty five range. That's when you're going to be able to you know, find that guy. And that's right where the Cowboys are, right in the middle. So I don't you know, they don't need to take a wide receiver at four.

They can get that guy in the second round if that's a direction they want to go. I'll go back to my earlier point, which is, and you know, you can never predict these things. It's the same argument we have with quarterbacks every week, every day. Really, if Dez Bryant is healthy, Terrence Williams is more than good enough to be the number two options on this team. It's you know, we found out last year that he's not going to be your number one guy. He's not reliable.

He hasn't been reliable over his entire career. Here, I think, I mean statistics back that up. But if you're assuming Dez is gonna play thirteen or more games, I think Terence is totally fine. And like you said, he's entering a contract year, absolutely, so you do have to prepare for and you do you do? And that's I'm actually I'm looking at the list right now. Go to Dane's boy,

like I know he loves him. If they wanted to draft Pharaoh Cooper sure in the third round or you know, I don't think he falls to the force, but maybe he does. I'm way more willing to take a shot. And I just looked this up to Martavis Bryant, who I love of, who has excelled as the guy behind Antonio Brown in Pittsburgh. He's pick one eight team sure, So I mean, obviously you have to hit on these picks. You know, it's not a give. It's not a give.

That discussion was about the speed, you know what I'm saying. That's what I mean. I mean, Terry Williams, you would only you would look at you would look at Fuller at thirty four because of the speed, because you know, as you go through all the players you named or and their own writer out or nice players. But I'm trying to think of how do you make this team

better with speed? And it's really that's what just with will Fuller, I don't care, I mean don't speed is great and Fuller as a burner, I don't care that much about just one off nine routes speed like Devin Smith last year. Uh it's his name, right, the guy that Jeff Uman Smith. I just I just want a guy who's consistently when the defense is the bracketing days, he has to consistently be able to win. That's all

I want. I don't care. I mean if he's a burner, right, if you don't agree with what we're saying or what I'm trying to ask him about the speed. This is something Nick Eatman has had, you know, he brings it up. He's brought it up every year that I've worked here, is that they haven't had that guy who can just completely take the top off a defense. But I'm not

convinced that you need it. I just need a guy who can win his one on one matchups when Dez is busy, and I think a value of having a receiver that can take a top off a defense it really stretch out that defense is because it's not most cases, it's not going to be one on one coverage. You know, all defenses aren't going to just allow the corner to play one on one with a threat like Will Fuller. They're going to draw a safety towards that side of the field and helps. And that's what I'm saying with

these a legit deep threat. I mean, there's a lot of speedy guys, but not all of them are legit deep threats like will Fuller. Is right, Adding a player like Will Fuller will help stretch out the defense open things up, and so I think just that's just a threat of him going deep could really help the offense. And I don't mean to suggest that I don't like

will Fuller. I like them, you do, um. I'm just saying, and you know, thinking back to twenty fourteen when this offense was so successful, the big play is I don't really know that they're I mean, obviously big plays are great, but I don't really know that that's their blueprint anyway. They want to control the ball, they want to control the clock. Is Will Fuller top five wide receiver in this class for you? Yeah? He is? Okay, he is, and I I you know what, and I y'all's rank.

I know you had Coleman too, Yeah right, yeah, Lakwan tried well and Corey colemaner still one two for me, and you have docks in two. Yeah, I have docks in there. I have Michael Thomas in there too as well, and then Lawler and Fuller were my guys. Yeah, that's I mean, I'm right there, Treadwell, Coleman, and I want two Josh Dockson is my number three, Thomas, my number four Cooper to my number five Fuller numbers. So there's people that will probably take docs and over over Michael

Thomas in Ohio State. Yeah, and it's flavor, you know. I think they're closely rated. Yeah, I mean, and that's what y'all were talking. I mean, this whole clump right here. I speaking of help himself, Sterling Shepard helped himself. Oh yeah, and he's helped himself since the end of the season at the Senior Bowl which here there and at the combine. He's yeah, and he can help you in the slot. I think he can play on the outside. Is he

best in the slot? Probably with a shorter area quickness, and I mean, just good luck try a slot or a nickel corner trying to cover him in the slot. But I think he can also play on the outside, which you make of all these the cornerbacks in the workout, you know, that's a position a lot of people have focused on it. It depends on you know, Hargraves measured taller than what we thought thought he was a five nine guy. I think he was five ten four. Yeah, and does it I mean, does it? Does it change

you watching the film? Of course, he feel like that he plays a little small at times. He does. He came in really honestly, size wise and speedwise. He came in what I thought I thought right around five ten and a half, right around four to five, and he was just right around those those times. So William Jackson to me, is that that's why I was going to go to Yeah, he's he really kind of opened some eyes a little bit more. Yeah, And it's not that

he came out of nowhere. He was viewed as a solid second round pick, maybe even an early second round pick, especially for the teams that value size at that position. But for him to go out and run a four three seven is outstanding. Yeah, that long striding speed, he's so good at playing the ball with his back to the ball. He has that innate ability, which is you need that in the NFL to play cornerback. So William Jackson definitely helped himself. I think he's has a good chance,

a good argument to go late first round. Okay here, especially when you look at the teams that are picking back there that prefer those longer corners seattles, and Green Bay's Kansas City Pittsburgh would be a good spot. So I think he's gonna end up somewhere in that back half of round. A lot of mock drafts have Eli Apple from Ohio State going to Pittsburgh. Though, is this the well, could we see a flip you're talking about guys, maybe that Jackson instead of Apple. I don't, I don't.

I think Apple helped himself, so I don't think he might not be there for the Steelers with that pick. So you see him going up, you see him being up Apple. So he's only a red shirt sophomore. He's so young, he still has so much he has to learn. But you just look at the traits and he's a future. Teams think he's a future number one corner in this league. And so I think there's a good chances he's off

the board somewhere in the top twenty five picks. I mean, the traits are impressive, but i've you know, I haven't watched anywhere near as much as y'all. But I have watched tape on Eli Apple and I didn't come away completely blown away by any means, which the fact that he's a red shirt sophomore helps explain that a lot. I was gonna say. I would be fascinated to see what the narrative was on Jackson. If he had participated in the Senior Bowl. He was one of those late scratches,

you know. If he'd gone out there and had a dominant week of practices, maybe we'd be talking about him in the mid first round. Six oh one two two oh nine four three eight. Who does just read? Oh god, if you're reading William Jackson. But six oh one two two o nine four three eight was his speed hand timed talking about corner? Yeah? Who already talking about Jalen Ramsey. I should have guessed. I was gonna say, I was thinking he's a safety for me, So I wasn't thinking

of him. I think a lot of teams. No, I'm just safety, Brian, No, he's he's a safety to us, A lot of safety in my world. Okay, it's a safety in your world. What if these guys here looking him as a corner Oh, I think a lot of teams are. Yeah, because when you're when you're on that size and speed, you know, you can play on the outside. Yeah, They're gonna keep you out there. There's more value there.

So I get it. I understand it. But if the long, if the long, rumored, not substantiated release of Brandon Carr comes to pass, you might need him to play corner. Yeah. So I think I think this team right here is looking ahead him at corner. I think there are a lot of teams And you just said the words. You just said the words Seattle. You know, these teams had play that that scheme Seattle, Atlanta. He wants for Seattle.

So no, but I'm just saying that the teams, you know, Yeah, you know San Diegan, san Diego, san Diego, if san Diego, it would be interesting to see what san Diego sees him ass Yeah, if they you know, because they're in a situation with with Wettell being gone, do they seem as the safety you could pare them with Verret Well, and that's I think San Diego and Dallas are both in similar situations where without a doubt they they're probably

going defense. Yes, could take which is which what helps the defense more the pass rush, yeah, or the back at the back end and in the secondary. You know what's going to help that defense more. And so I think that they're both teams that I could see going either way. Whether that's a Bosa or a Buckner right or a Ramsey and a help in the second or

you can make a strong case for either. See that's why I think their defensive board in San Diego will be very similar to what this defensive board is here. They're still in a three four right, Yeah they are. And that's why I think Buckner probably but they but but but Buckner. They mentioned Buckner's he when we had a chance, it's to interview him. Four three teams are looking at him playing inside. You guys kept the Buckner

hype alive at the combine. I tried to squash it, and you guys know, I no, initially, I I when when when mel Kiper put him in the mock draft the Dallas and made I had a scout come up to me and say, when did we start taking three four defensive ins here? Said that on like three draft shows in our own now. Yeah, but and that's what that's what he does best. You know, and that's so I get it. But he can also play I didn't you play outside? Yeah? And if in a fourth three

I can play inside, you can play the one. You can do a lot of things for you. I think diversatility obviously is a high selling points. Watching Garnett block him last night at Stamford a little bit playing a good battle. That was a good battle well for Garnett. Oh yeah, I was surprised. Kind of a big thick guy, you know, he handled the quickness pretty well. Okay, uh any other cornerbacks so that we needed to visit about the safeties. Any safeties though, jump out at you. Uh,

you know. As unfortunate Vaughan Bell couldn't run. His interview was very weird. He admitted he was being he was lazy a lot of times. Yeah, that was strange. Was strange. And then he didn't run because of a hammy. So hopefully he's able to run out of House States pro day. Miles Killerbrew didn't run as well as a lot of people thought. Um, and that was kind of what you know. The people that like Momas was another one. Thompson excuse me was another one, right, Yeah, he had an illness too,

so hopefully that explains it. But Miles Killerber, if you don't like what you see on tape, then you're kind of all just wait till the combine. He's gonna test really well. Yeah I thought he would, but he didn't test as well as I thought. Um, but he still weighed in impressively. TJ. Green from Clemson his safety, the other guy, not Jr. On curse. TJ. Greene, former wide receiver,

moved to safety. He ran in the four threes. That's only going to help him for teams looking for a developmental safety who I thought was a Day three pick. But after that speed, teams are gonna be taking them more of a look at him as a top one hundred guy. How about Powell from Ohio State six h two six two eleven. He ran He ran fourth. If you look at the speed, if you split it the way I've taught all my life, he is roughly like a four four eight type of a guy. Ran better

than a lot of corners. Um. And we've talked about him. His tape is one of the most boring tapes. It's terrible to watch. It's just it's there's nothing, there's no action, it's just kind of he's there. He's not an enforcer, he's not necessarily that rangy guy that plays on both sidelines, but he's still a valuable piece of that defense. And with these testing numbers that suggests that he might be a better pro than college flower. Okay, when we were

going to take our first break. When we get back, we'll do a little twitter on the twenty, but I want to real quick get into well, maybe we'll do it after twenty the twenty. I want to talk about the running back situations. We have some questions about it. We can use that. You want to talk about it before, I want to talk about it after after the break,

Well you don't want to know. We're gonnat twitter on the twenty and hopefully get some running back questions there because I want to get in Some interesting stuff has come out Lewis Riddick. We've all kind of talked about where Zeke fits in all this. I want to get your thoughts on that. So we'll be right back with

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Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Cowboys Back here in the Draft Show from the SWBC Mortgage Studios. Brian Broadest, Dame Burglar, David Hellman, Kent Garrison, Executive Producer. Thanks everybody to joining us here today. Have you noticed We've got to some new camera angles and things like that, working in some

new graphics and inserts and stuff. I think I'm staying there. Yeah, So thanks to everybody that works so hard on that to get all that together for you guys, We really do appreciate you being out there and supporting the Draft Show. Thanks to Ed K. Hill for creating this segment some three years ago. It's known as Twitter on the twy Twitter on the Twitter with that, Dave Hellman, I will turn it over to you, and let's let's begin. All right,

let's go rap fire. Got it. Michael wants to know how does this year's top ten stack up to last year's for you? I mean, if if the Cowboys had the fourth pick last year, well, Maury Cooper was the first or the fourth pick last year? Yeah, I mean you look at last year's draft. I think the quarterbacks were better with Winston Mariotte at the top. You look at the wide receivers with Cooper and White, um, two really good talents there, and then you had Girly at

number ten. So in a lot of ways it's similar. You know, you have a Zeke this year and unfortunate when you get to see him because of ACL but I think he's gonna come back strong. Um, you know, I I think there are some comparisons. I think you can you see impact guys last year. I think you see impact guys this year, not necessarily the generational talents, but guys that can potentially make Pro Bowls. Yeah, I agree.

I think the interesting pick would have been girly if Fouler, I know he went to at three, but you know there were some guys there, the two quarterbacks of course, if one would have the slit Tea and Cooper though the wide receiver was outstanding. So yeah, I like a I I think I would. I would align more with

the talent last year than the talent this year. As far as having a top five pick, I have this weird feeling like this is going to be remembered as kind of a weak draft, which is unfortunate for You're gonna make it what it is. Well, sure, you know, you know, and I hate when I hate when scouts say that, because you got to go out and find players. They're they're a Pro Bowl player, Absolutely find them. So you just do, Bobby, And I've asked you this before, Brian,

Bobby wants to know where you think. And you know, usually you're talking fourteen to twenty first round grades eighteen. Where do you think the first here talent stops in this draft? Well? I have eighteen first round. That's why I'm at right now. So that's you know, you know, the people ask me about elite. I never used the word like elite. You know, and I mean I try to use where I used the word to describe the ability that that Greg Hardy, but in a draft I

try not to so much. But I have eighteen first round names, Stain, I don't know how many you have, is well. And I just released my second top fifty board today and to me, the top five guys are my top tier, right, and that's tonsil at one jacket two, so you can break it down that way. Yeah, three, I have Ramsey Bosos my number four, and then Zeke number five. I think those five guys are just a

little bit better than the rest. And then my second tier I've got guys like Treadwell, Buckner, Sheldon Rankins, the two quarterbacks, Golf and Wentz, Ronnie Stanley, Darren Lee. I think that second tier is more like a dozen guys, fifteen guys. But that top tier for me, it just does top five. Yeah, that's that's that's fair to say. I mean, to me even more recent to stand in there and make a pick, right exactly. I just feel like, you know, training back, when you get into the second tier,

you listed a bunch of nice players. Sure, no doubt you know, potential starters, potential starters, guys that could have really nice careers. But you know, when you start talking about Zeke, you start talking about Ramsey and Tonsil and guys like that. You know, Bosa. Did you say Bosa was one? Yeah? See, So that's for you know, for you that it's worth standing in there and making a pick. And one thing about trading back. I am not moving

back unless there's another first round pick involved. And not just I mean you're moving back for another first round pick, but I'm talking about a future first round pick, especially if well, unless I'm moving like three or four spots. But say like the Rams, you know, I get that question a lot on Twitter moving back to fifteen plus their two second rounders. I'm to move back ten plus spots. I need at least a future first rounder to do that to get out of the top five this year.

Oh man, that's that's you know what, that's that's an interesting thought. I just don't think that you can hold somebody up depending on mean, how bad, how bad they're. They're honestly overpaying with the two ones. I mean, see me with the with the two two. Yeah, But when you're in a position like that, you hold sure, you know, Yeah, you do. You hold the cards. You're a right and

I'm not holding my breath that it's going to happen. Right, But if that's the only way I'm moving out, I'm not gonna Two twos are nice, but give me a future first rounder in order to do that? What if? So what if I said that they would give you one of their seconds and next year's first would you take that over two seconds in this year's draft? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, especially for a team like the Rams. So I don't

expect to be a playoff team. That's interesting because that you would say, okay, we'll take take well, we'll take I mean you're talking about it you I mean, sorry, Rams, but maybe first half of the next year's first round, first sixteen picks, you know, or first twelve if or first twenty if they don't make the playoffs. Yeah. So so you're talking about having pick fourteen and then turn around in fifteen years give me fifteen, pick fifteen, your

own thirty four forty three likely, and then next year's one. Yeah, which could be high? Do that? Do that a heartbeat? Yeah? Hope? Which is there or another impact guy? So you would you would? That would be an interesting way of looking at it. I think people always think about, give me the picks right now, let me do some damage in this trap. But this guy has traded back and uh, you know, trading and picked up a one from that.

We've seen desperate teams move up and you know, give away picks just because they they want to win right away. They need to make an impact. And the Rams they want a quarterback and never say I mean yeah more so than their guy has to be there to order to make that work. They need a quarterback. But let me ask you this, So could they sit there with what you know right now? You just put two quarterbacks in the middle of this draft. That's why not hold

my breath, you know. But if they get spooked that, you know, a team like the Eagles are going to move up, possibly into that top seven. The Niners they're at seven, possibly taking a quarterback. You know, say Carson Wentz comes off the board. Jared Goff is the next guy that these teams want. They get spooked about him not lasting very long. They look for a trade partner. You never know, it could be four. I bet it

would be the Cowboys that would spook them. Let's say wins goes to the Cowboys draft golf at four, then you're talking about really only having one of those big three talents left and he's got to fall ten more spots. But obviously the Cowboys would have their guy has to be there. Yeah, and maybe this is a deal that you work out beforehand. This is a decent segue from Daniel, And it's gonna come down to preference. Really there's no universal answer, But is there an order of the top

three picks that would really make you want to trade back? Like, is there a way that you don't have a guy there that you want or is that virtually impossible at four? Let's I mean, let's paid to scenario where this would be a perfect example of like where Tounsil falls to

four and you really don't want to do that. I don't, and I don't think Tonsil will be if Dallas cowboy, if he's there at for um, I don't know what you think think about this, So I'm trying to think of it, because who would tend to see take other than Tonsil, Ramsey, Ramsey. I think, say they go tackle in free agency, I Ramseys, Okay, Sages Ramsey, and then it goes wins and then I think it would have

to be. The thing is I think now San Diego takes I don't know how they wouldn't pass on Tonsil unless they have some bad medical stuff or you know, yeah, the shoulder, right. I thinkin of that started to be talked about a little bit. Bosa would have to go in the top three to really force the Cowboys into wanting to do something like that. And I don't think he will go top three. That's just my Maybe somebody

want to come up for Tunsil. That might be that that might that might be more of an avenue than one of these quarterbacks. I think there's a bigger gap between Tunsil and Stanley than people There's there's a real big gap. I mean people talk about him being similar. I don't think Conklin's the second best tackle on this draft. There you go, but Baltimore picks six. They could probably use the left tackle, right, Yeah, they just let their guy go. Well night have Eugene Monroe that they signed,

but he can't stay healthy. They have to think about, you know, the future. Teams always will they always look at these offensive tackles that would I could jack Conklin's the second best tackle on this draft, that would be I love it. Tounsil falling to four would be like, well, Leonard Williams falling to five or six whatever he fell to last exact, and that's what we talk about. Tunsil's not gonna fall. Leonard Williams fell to six last year. I thought, by far, or easily, the best player in

the draft last year. Yeah, it just you know, sometimes that happens. And you look at the Redskins picking number five last year, they were I think they made their minds up. They were taking Brandon Shuff. Yeah, so Leonard Williams fell to them, but they were like, you know what, we were taking the offensive lineman. That's who we've been planning on taking guard. I have it on good authority that that pick would have been Lyle Collins in a different universe, m if in fact, if in fact he

hadn't had any red flags. Yeah, isn't that fascinating? It is? Anyway, um Andre has a real draft nerd question for y'all. He wants to know if Malik Collins is a one or three tech, and he's a three penetrating three, that's his best. He's He's got a wrestling background, very quick off the ball. I love the way you could attack gaps, getting and get into the backfield and do some damage. He's got him picked. He's he's a three tech project him for me a third rounder. I got him in

the third. Yeah, I think that's Uh, these defensive tackle class once that initial you know the fifteen, the fifty, you know all those defense tackles are gonna come off the board. Then you have that that next tier where in the third round guys like Malik Jackson or MILIEK Collins and uh Hashan Hassan Ridgeway, these these Washington some good Constellation prizes. If you don't get that defensive tackle early, there's some still some good defensive talent. Uh, that's gonna

be in the third round quickly. Did can DJ hurt himself or help himself? Yeah? That hurt bizarre like people I gotta I was looking at him at thirty four. I got a question about that. We talked about it at the combine. I I'm starting to think that's not even like far fetched, Like I think he'll I think he'll be there, He'll be in that range. I have him going to Denver right now at thirty one. That's right there. So yeah, I think he's gonna be right

there in that conversations. The interview process is really what's what it's all about for him. I mean, it just seems so strange the way that all he rows people the wrong way. He's got the off field stuff, the way he I mean, the whole hell he threw tons. Yeah, so that whole thing. Teams already knew that. It's not like he outed tonsl to teams. Teams knew what was going on in that room. So that's not a big thing. But just that he would be so open about that

information to the media. You're just you're not thinking, is no? And that's that's exactly he's not thinking. So what else when you give him money, millions of dollars and he's going to be out away from the facility, is he going to be thinking? Can you trust him? And at some point, just like Randy Gregory, he's worth it. You know, he's worth the risk. You know you're going to roll the dice on these guys. For Kimdici, where is that point where he's worth it? Is it thirty four? Is

it maybe further than that? Like Gregory was, It's a fascinating case. He's a three technique though it sounds like to me that this team has invested a lot of money and a guy playing three technique give me one. I hate to say this because we get so much Baylor talk around here, but give me Billings. That's Billings would be very interesting here. I feel I think that would be phenomenal. He would you would rather somebody other

than Billings, wouldn't you know? I like Billings? But I do think, yeah, there are better defensive tackles in this class. I mean, I have, uh what billions of my number five defensive tackle? Okay, Sheldon Rankins to me, is the top guy? Give me? Is he your number one? Is he your first? One technique? No? I like him better than three? Oh no, no, no, no, no, I'm talking about Billings. Billings Now, I like drawn read the top

one technique. So if read, if Reid was, if if it came down to read or Billings at thirty four, I'm taking read. It's taking read, and then I think there's an interesting conversation between Vernon Butler and Andrew Billings. But who you would like better? There? I think? I mean, I do like Vernon Butler, Dan Turner will tell you he's a big butler fan. I said Billings just the head.

But yeah, I said this last year, and I'm gonna say it like it's it's just dumb if they don't come out of these first four or so picks without a defensive tackle to add well, especially what you've seen with Nick had Neighbor. It was a bridge one year. Now it's been a two year. I like Nick Haden and I don't care. I don't mind if they bring him back. But like, this draft is deep. You can probably get a pretty damn good tackle at sixty seven,

let alone third. No, I don't disagree with you, but I don't trust that they're gonna be One more question, okay, Dan, Dan says, and this is gonna be something that free agency is gonna is gonna have a say in. But Dallas needs a tight end. Okay, I don't think that's surprising. No, he wants to know about Vanette or just in general, your thoughts at where and who this team could look at tight end? Very ordinary tight end class. It's very blah.

It's hard to get too excited about these guys. But with that said, there is talent um, you know, I don't We're not gonna have a first round tight end this year. I don't believe Hunter Henry get to the first round. I just I can't see it. But Nick Vanette in the third round, fourth round? What about? What about your guy Higbee? I like him, I just I think the medicals are going to kill him. I think he's he's a big athletic kid who can catch the ball and stretch a scene. But I don't think he did.

The medicals were. What's the scary thing there? The Hooper kid ran really really well from Stanford. He did. He kind of a vanilla players tell I tested a lot better than his tape. Sure you know on tape he doesn't doesn't value at all. He's solid. I mean he's a fourth round guy to me. Yeah, I like the Iowa player Krieger Kobel right this year. And then if you're looking for a blocker, you know he's not going to give you as much in the in the passing game,

but as a blocker, he's someone that brings value. David Morgan at US Texas and Antonio right in the later rounds. I think that would make a lot of sense. Yeah, it's what's interesting about these to me about these tight ends, and you said, there's if you look at and I'm not one of the big the metrics guy, I'm not really big. I'm trying to learn about that because I'm fascinating because a lot of people ask questions, but they will tell you the earlier in the draft you drafted

tight end, the better chance you have for success. Even though here the Cowboys don't tell that to the Cowboys, right, the Cowboys took one at two, but it first rounds, second round tight ends tend to have more success or more hit factor as opposed to if you get them in the later rounds, like when they drafted Jeff Swain. That that that they say that the metrics people tell you, hey, if you're gonna go for tight end, go early better than late. So that's the kind of the dynamic that

they're into. Okay, we're gonna take our final break, and when we get back, I want to get into the running back question about Zeke and the possibility of the Dallas Cowboys taking him or anybody else for that matter. So you're listening to the Draft show, stay tuned. We'll be right back at Dallas Cowboys. Star Magazine brings you behind the scenes coverage, within depth, player stories, entertaining columns, a pull out poster, and of course you're Dallas Cowboys Chili.

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Ken Garrison, Executive Producer. Want to get into a lot of talk this week about the possibility of teams looking at looking at Ezekiel Elliott and especially this football team. Lewis Riddick came out and put the coal to the fire a little bit about the possibilities a little bit right, Yeah, and Lewis is a you know, former personnel guys talking about Eagles. He's lived this, uh you know, he's had his ups and down since we've all had in this league.

But an interesting thought about when people sit down and watch the tape of Ezekiel Elliott and talk to him and and why he should be considered a top five player on a lot of people's sports, but also consideration to be select in the top five, And I wanted

to know your guy's thoughts on that. I think, I mean, it's not like this is breaking, is we you know, we've been talking about Zeke right since we started how how specially is and what I think it is is a lot of these top ten guys, top twelve to fifteen guys. As teams dive in more and more and coaches get involved, they're starting to see more warts and so it's not that Zeke is necessarily rising as it is.

You know, teams are becoming more comfortable drafting running back that high because he is such a safe pick in terms of the talent. I mean, his weaknesses they're you're nitpicking. I mean, he just doesn't have those glaring weaknesses, those negatives to his game that would preclude you. Besides the fact that he just plays running back, and this factor in this isn't a great running back class, factor in that this top ten doesn't have the you know, generational talents.

There's some good talent in his top ten, but not the elite guys. And it's easy to see why a team the top ten is going to consider Zeke Elliott and I do think he goes somewhere top twelve. I don't know where it's. I think it's gonna be like last year with the Rams, a team that you know, the Rams never came up last year and we talked about Todd Gurley, you know, And I think it's going

to be like that this year. Zeke's going to go to a team that maybe doesn't have that glaring hole at running back, but at some point he's just too good to pass up. You Okay with the say having Zeke for five years and then moving on to another guy, you know that at that premium of a pick. When we started this, I you know, I love you well, I loved I loved Zeke from the beginning. He's right up there with Well. I mean, I'm biased toward the

explosive offensive playmakers. But you know, I used to you know, trade back to nine, ten, eleven and then take him because that sounds more appealing. And now again, for the most part, I'm not blown away by the guys at the top of this draft. I mean, in general terms, I think you look at it. Yeah, I mean I just looked this up. Amari Cooper was the fourth pick last year. He's on a four year deal worth twenty

two million. So you're talking about paying Zeke five point five mill, which is more than you probably want to pay a running back, But isn't that much in the grand scheme of things. You got him under team control for five years. And yeah, Stephen Jones talked about this at the combine too. When you're picking this high in the draft, you want to eight to ten year cornerstone type of player. Running back is a little different, which

he even said, but like, who cares. If you've got Ezekiel Elliott for five years guaranteeing you, you know, barring no injuries or freak circumstances, pro Bowl type production the next five years, why isn't that worth a top five pick? Well, I think we both, all three of us agree He's one of the top five players in this draft, no doubt. But the better question right now is does would this

team take him at four? And I mean, knowing what they how they viewed the running back position, how it's gone the past few years, all the picks and money they've invested in the offensive line, would they take a running back at four. I have my doubts that they would. I don't really believe that they would even need to be able to run the football. I mean, that's true, but you know, you talk about Darren McFadden proving what this line is capable of. You talk about the Dixons

and Henry's of the world. Who are there for you in the second and third round? I'm forgetting somebody who's pretty damn good booker on Collins, and there's there's a lot of these, you know. And then I mean there's the free age. There's a free agent market too. I mean, seven days from now, who's a question who knows will be on this team? It's a question. The names always gets thrown out there like a littlemar Miller. I mean, you just said the numbers of what you're gonna pay.

The reason the reason that Lamar Miller gets thrown around a lot. It's because he's young, he's got relatively low mileage on him. Um, but you're still you'd have to give him more than what you're giving Zeke. Sure, he's three to four years older than Zeke. He's got he's got four years worth of NFL mileage on him. And overall, I don't I mean, you would would see better. You sound like to me that you would enter that scenario. You would rather go for a young always. I would

always rather have the young guy. And even I mean even at a top five pick, that contract isn't going to come back to bite you in the way that a big free agent contract could. He scares you the least, doesn't he? Right of the guys. You know, my favorite player in this draft is well documented. It's Miles Jack. But now I'm sweating a March fifteenth workout in Westwood, right, you know, my, my, my, my, my whole being, and I could be sweating. You know, I want him, whether

it's here or somewhere else. I want him to go and play and have a great career. But it's come down to, like, you know, there's there's hit that questions about him there's questions about with Joey Bosa, you know, the off the field stuff. Let's not act like that. Joey Bosa, Noah Spence weren't like hanging out together and doing things together and you know all those things. There's there's some things that people are going to have to

dig in on Joey Bosa. There's the position flexibility question of Ramsey. Where do you play him? Where where is he If you play him at one, well you could probably say, well, if he's not very good, we'll move him to the other one. Well, that's what I was saying about. You know, there's a lot of talent in this class, but in terms of questions that you have about him, Zeke is the one that you just you're

not worried about. You're not. I mean the biggest concern you have is what he said after the Michigan State game about calling out his coaches in the play which we watched the tape. He was right, Has anybody disagree with what? And he he was an immature moment. I mean he's known as the team guy. Yeah, exactly, He's known as the ultimate team Just watches blocking and tell me that he's not a team guy. I mean just that's who he is and so one immature moment is

not going to define him. It reminds me of the quarterback debate, which I mean I've been you know, nobody really feels one hundred percent sure about any of these quarterbacks. Are you're going to take a quarterback that you have seventy five percent confidence in at four over a guy that you have ninety percent confidence in? And I mean I'm sitting yeah, would ideally want to take a running

back at four? Not really? But if I feel ninety five percent sure that Zeke is going to be a beast, and I don't feel that good about anybody else, why the hell not? You know, well, that brings up another discussion about you know, like with Joey Bosa, people talking about how he's already near a ceiling. Since when did that become a negative? You know, if you have a better idea of what you're getting with the Joey Bosa, that's appealing to me because I don't have as much projection,

it's a little it's less ready board. Yeah, exactly. He can come in right now and help my team, and I know what I'm getting where with another pass Rusher. Maybe, Um, it's more of a projection. Could he be better down the road, Yeah, but it's more of a projection, So I don't know that for a fact. So with guys like Zeke and Bosa, who are ready to come in from day one, I have a great idea who they're

going to be as pros. That's very appealing. So there's no defensive player that you would take Elliott over that's currently on this board, right, I mean in that for number four, Well, you know, I'm gonna stick to my top fifty, my top five tonsils number one, Jack was number two, right Ramsey three, right, Bosa four, and then Zeke five. Okay, so you're you're locked into three defensive guys. I think those three aren't assimilar. If any one of those guys were on the board for you at four,

you would take them over taken. Yes, how about the names he just gave you behind? I mean, if they take Joey Bosa, I'm fine with it. If they take Jalen Ramsey, I'm better than fine. I mean, that's great. He's a versatile guy. I mean, I think he could be a solid player at either position. But I'm sitting here thinking and I know the draft is about five years in the future, it's not so much about twenty sixteen.

But assuming nothing crazy happens, if the Cowboys drafted his Ekil Elliott, I'd feel comfortable putting money on him being offensive rookie of the year. Yeah. I mean, and he's gonna help you control the clock. He's a threat to run for a thousand yards. He's gonna help there. And McFadden stay healthy, he can block block, Yeah, all this good stuff. And you know, we saw what DeMarco Murray did for this offense in twenty fourteen in terms of

ball control, clock control. That's the way Jason Garrett wants to play. Then I look over, I thought Byron Jones had a great rookie year. What really really tangible impact did he make? Though? True? And I mean, is it fair to expect more from Jalen Ramsey? Is it fair to expect more from Joey Bosa than what you got from DeMarcus Lawrence, which is no regular season sacks or Randy Gregory for that matter, regular season sacks. I mean,

somebody did the math on this. I'm not going to take credit for it, but somebody out on Twitter came up with the fantastic stat that average rookie sack production in the NFL is two and a half or three. Yeah. Yeah, so that was you're telling me that I could have eleven twelve hundred rushing yards and rookie Pro Bowl candidate if if verse that, and I know, I mean, Moosa becomes what but McFadden gives you ele one hundred rushing

hards It doesn't issue. Yeah he does. But but I mean, if I mean, anybody listening to this podcast is probably well aware of McFadden's deficiencies, which you saw last year. I mean, Ezekiel Elliot it made it healthwise, he made it through he did which was an upset. Can you count on that? Can you count on that? Again? You can't how many r I would say McFadden probably have

four or five runs that were touchdowns. If he's got Ezekiel Elliott's legs and speed, that's fascinating because yards, I believe, as much as they've invested in this offensive line, yeah, they don't need to invest a top five resource into a running back, but Zeke is just so appealing. If they did, though, and I and all of this stuff I just said, I don't really believe at the end of the day that they would take him at four,

but it certainly is interesting to think about. And what if what if you took what if he took Zeke at at four and you turn around and draft and drafted Prescott in the third? Now, how and and that's the and that and now you're talking about you got a runner, a receiver, and a young offensive line. How does that help Dak Prescott transition into being the future quarterback of the Dallas Cowboys or Cardel Jones? Okay, well I kidding, I know, yea, but how does that? Let's go,

let's do it. Yes, better, hope the defense stops somebody, because that's the way if you're adding these offensive players, that's great. But better I mean, that's I mean, And that's let me ask you this though, Would you feel better about Would you feel better about draft and Zeke if Randy Gregory did get three sacks and didn't have this suspension hanging over his head? Yeah, for sure that you might not lean towards taken Bosa. You know that you might you say, well, you know what, we feel

good about what's going on over here. If you're drafting Bosa. I hope it's not because of a knee jerk reaction to Randy Gregor anyway. I mean, there's there's more to their need on the defensive line than just the fact that Randy Gregory's a slappy and the no the no sacks thing doesn't worry, but it's more the I just don't know if we can trust him off the field.

I mean, this is he's gonna miss the first four games and then what happens, and it's kind of like a job might play twelve games and then he's he's got a problem. Yeah, you know, you just can't. You just don't know. It's so easy for these guys to slip up. It's hard to trust them. Okay, I look forward to revisiting this when free agency has settled a

little bit. I'd say there's gonna be there's gonna be three or four guys that are not currently in the conversation that will be members of this team in the next two weeks, and then another you know, Lance dunbar Um, James Hannah, Jack Crawford. Maybe these guys are not in the conversation anymore, maybe they're somewhere else in the league. So Okay, I don't know. It's it's gonna be interesting to talk. I'm on board because I'm with you guys. I'm on with the production. I'm on with the fact

that minimize my risk. But give me, give me that guy that I think could be a difference maker. I think and I wasn't even old enough to really and truly remember this, which is gonna make a lot of people upset. But I mean, I think about how easily successful Emmett Smith was when he first came into the league, and how I mean it was almost effortless because of the pieces that were in place around offensive blind quarterback.

Who's like fever, Who's going to be happier about Ezekiel Elliott being in his backfield than Tony Romo for these last two to four years of his career depending on two to four. I like a straight whatever it is that he actually winds up playing one game to four years. Jerry, Jerry thinks he'll be here for six more years. You think he'll be here for two. Somebody thinks he's going to have break his neck on the snap of the next seas going to take a day by day Thanks coach,

appreciate it. All right, Well that's a good discussion. All right, Hey, Ken, I'm gonna turn the program over you because I'm looking and we have about five minutes left in the show and I want to get some callers in. So if you got it lined up again the numbers eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. Again, we're all doing well. Get your question right, your question. I want to get us to as many calls as I can and give everybody an opportunity to chime in. So

can't you gotta go ahead? Yeah, Bradley and DC go ahead. Hey guys, thanks again. So this may be being nitpicky, but as far as the quarterback conversation goes with wins and Golf, I think that Wentz may be overdrafted because he does have the measurables. But looking at Golf, I think he has a better feel for the game. And when I say still, I like the way he climbs

the pocket better. And what I noticed with Wentz is whenever pressure comes, he seems to kind of run out or kind of get he gets flustered when pressure comes. And I like the way that Wentz moves in a elevator in a smart area. I mean of golf moves in a smart area. So if y'all get to speak on that, that'd be great. And Brian, thanks, plea's taking my questions on what squitter. I appreciate it, no problem, man,

thanks for getting back at me on that's pretty accurate snapshot. Yeah, he's doing his work right, I mean, that's there are times definitely we watch Wentz on tape, he feels the ghosts, he hears the noise, and he prematurely gets out of the pocket, uses his legs. So he knows he's athletic and he can move around, and so he takes advantage of that. But a lot of times you'd love to

see him stick in the pocket. Maybe go be a little quicker going from one to two to three in his reads, where golf is already at an advanced level in terms of seeing the field at natural feel for his progressions and he feels pressure a lot better. So it makes it tough because whence absolutely he wins in the measurable department. I mean, you take the decal off the helmet and Wentz is everything you want in a quarterback in terms of just the way he looks and

the ball comes off his hand. But is golf just a little bit better and turn of the mental process and the way he uses his feet, and will that be able to make him an overall better quarterback in the NFL? Golf takes a beating and you could watch. We watched him on tape the other night. We were watching the cow U. Yeah, they're running back and all

of a sudden, he's throwing the ball. He's standing there and he's ripping it down the middle and he's taking a guy's hitting him in the chest, left tackle, right tackle. They're all bad. So yeah, he's he offensive. No favorite wins is coming from a program that won a national title in five straight seasons, and golf was the quarterback of a one and eleven team. Would they go like

eight and five this year? That it was a huge jump, all right, Kim, Yeah, Sam and san Antonio Sam, Hey, guys, I first want to say, um, as far as a lost feelings about Joey Boss, I'm definitely afraid that the Cowboy's gonna pick him. I do not want of him. I would take I would even take learning punsel if he was there. I mean, I know he's raided very highly in that amount of New Povision for US. I would take uh heck, I would take running back out at home Ohio State. I do not want Joey Bosa.

I think he's gonna be reready solid and nothing more. And at that at that position, I want to see somebody who's catalytic, who was special, and I mean to me, he had what he had several first and second round talent guys along that front seven and I don't think that he's gonna be able to go and be you know, a let's say DeMarcus Ware type or whatever. But he's just he's just not. I do not want Joey Bosa at all at number four. I wouldn't even want him

at fourteen. I'm being honest with you, but honestly, I will love I'm in love with Jay Ramley, Miles jack But if I was wondering what you guys thought about it, um, I'd love to see Chicaboys get Ramsey at four, assuming he was even making there, and then go back in the second round and try to get William Jackson and double down and really turn that that position into all strength and they want to get your starts. Y'all have a great day, fellas. Right, thanks. I appreciate that. I

feel like I'm guilty of killing Bosa. It's all your fault. I was gonna I mean, I feel like and I didn't mean to kill I just it was my opinion. If we're in a bit of a Joey Bosa echo chamber, yeah, like that's kind of and you know it's my opinion. Dane likes him a lot, and Dane could absolutely be right about the player, and you know, it happens. And I compared him to Greg Ellis. I compared Himcgreg Ellis on the production on the six to eight sacks and and and and unfair or not, that's what I saw.

And if people, if Sam and those guys, everybody's doing their own work and they're trying to find out, Hey, he goes, you know, watching these games, that's okay. I feel like that I'm responsible for killing the guy. I didn't mean to kill the guy. I just pointed out what I see. But I think I'm online with him though one of the main things can be good but not great, one of the main issues, I think. And caller kind of said that he doesn't think he's gonna

be DeMarcus Ware. Nobody is, but yeah, he shouldn't be compared to it. I shouldn't be compared to him. But a lot of people think, Okay, it's a fourth overall pick, so I'm gonna you know, they translate the fourth overall pick too future hall of famer, you know, But that's just not always the case. I mean, this draft doesn't have those generational guys that are going to be able to come in and you know, make that type of impact that de Marcus Ware did, So he shouldn't be

compared to the DeMarcus Ware. But I don't know, I don't. To me, I see it on the tape. I see a guy that the techniques there. I mean, he doesn't need to be an elite speed guy to win. I mean his testing numbers were very good and the three cone in short shuttle was the only two or the main two drills I care about for the pass rusher position. So to me, nothing has changed. I think both. I understand maybe if you think he's a six to eight sack guy, totally get that. I'm not convinced he's going

to be a double digit sack guy. But I don't think he need to be a double digit sack guy. Had to impact the pocket. And you know, like I said, von Miller had eleven sacks last year. See, yeah, you don't need to be a double digit sac guy to impact the pocket consistently. Yeah. I just I worry about Chris Long. I worry about I worry about the guy that plays and gets war down in week you know, week fourteen, you're you're fighting for a playoff spot, and all of a sudden, he's not. I saw Chris Long

do that this year. I saw looks great a week one. By week fourteen, he's wore down, thirty years old now, but the same he's the same type of player a lot of Similarly, Chris Long had some pretty damn good years when he was That's what I'm saying. And and if he if he you know, if he has a career like that, that's fine. But I'm just saying, though, to me, I'm trying to think about I want that. I want that difference maker. And I think and I think he's gonna be a really good football player. I'm

not gonna say he's gonna be great. I think he's gonna be a good football It would be one thing if if this was the Jaguars sorry for throwing that out though, but well, uh, this is a team that hasn't been top five in twenty seven years, and from the fans perspective, I just think they want something that's going to move the needle a little bit more. And I apologize to you. You could be right about Boss. I would accept it if I'm wrong. I think we all,

I mean me included, we all like Ramsey better. So yeah, if Sam wants Ramsey, Yeah, all right, listen, that's all the time we have today for the Draft Show. I want to specially thank Scott Purcell and Dave Urns and Blake Silverthorne for kind of setting all this up for us. I want to thank Dane Burglar, David Hellman, and Ken Garrison. I want to thank you everybody out there for your tweets, for your calls. Bradley, Sam, we appreciate you, guys. We'll

be back next week. We'll dive into some more, we'll be a little bit closer to this draft. If you have the opportunity to sit down and look at these players, formulate your own opinion and go from there. So for my crew here, we'll see you next time on the Draft Show.