Draft Show: Combine Reunion

self serving everywhere else, it's just Tuesday. We are not live, but guys, we are back at the Indianapolis Convention Center. It's been a long time coming, not just because we're back at the NFL Combine here on the Draft Show, but we are back with our friend Dame Brugler, Draft Show alum, Draft Show originator. I think a lot of people excited to see on the show man. Welcome back. Oh, it feels so good. It feels right. You know, we didn't get the combine last year, so it feels good

to be back in Indianapolis. Feels good to be be back with you guys. Uh, we got plenty to talk about, so I'm excited. It is like it's like a warm hug took a year off. Everybody feeling a little bit better about that first bite into that riverby at Saint Almo's. I mean, it's yeah, it's it's good. That's good cocktail. It just clears your sciences of everything that doesn't matter

except for the draft. I mean, and that's the thing is you talk about it's been a year in between, but think about how all that has changed in that year. I mean, last time we were here, we were talking to Joe Burrow at the podium, and now Joe Burrow has been to a Super Bowl. Crazy. I mean, there's a lot of things that have gone on since then. Last time we were here there was a fresh powdered snow on the ground while we were walking around Indianapolis.

It's been like mid forties. So we've gotten lucky in that regard this this time around. But things have changed over the last couple of years in a number of different ways. I almost feel like I've been through a time warp, like I lived. I lived those two years, but I've just I'm not convinced that it ever actually happened. At least you don't want to convince yourself that it happened. Got so excited about Dane, I forgot to mention I'm

David Hellman. I think you know that, joined by my buddy Kyle Yeoman's Jeff and Brian taking the week off because they're slackers. They didn't want to come up to Indianapolis. They definitely wanted to come up to Indianapo. You're right, well, easy money, sending our love to them, but I'm very happy to trade them in for Dane. So, Dane, I just want to I want to set the stage with you that it's kind of an awkward thing. We're at the combine. We're excited to be here here on Tuesday morning.

We still haven't actually done a whole lot, you know. Steven Stephen Jones talked yesterday to Cowboys media. There's some Cowboys news that maybe we can get too later. But in terms of the draft, no interviews yet, no testing. So I just I kind of want to set the stage with you since we haven't checked in with you this year about the storylines about maybe the guys that have the most to gain, or the narratives that can kind of shape this draft class the most. Because I

do think it's Kyle brought up Joe Burrow. We don't have that guy, like, we don't have that guy that dominates the draft talk the way we did with Joe or with Kyler Murray. I mean, we're basically talking about edge rushers and offensive tackles, and so how do you how do you think this week might shape that? I think the main storyline is exactly that, the fact that we don't have that obvious storyline. It's just a very

different draft. And every draft class has its own identity, you know, its own It's usually driven by the quarterbacks. This year, the quarterback after five in the top fifteen last year, this quarterback class. You know, it's it's just all over the place, and you know, you're looking for the high floor guy and Kenny Pikett. You're looking for the guy that five years from now hopefully is that top fifteen quarterback in the NFL. And like a Malik

Willis or Matt Corrall. It's hard to have conviction about any of these quarterbacks, it really is. And I don't know that we're going to get any real information here that's going to help us. You know, Matt corral the one quarterback that wasn't at the Senior Bowl, not working out, still working his way back from that ankle injury from the ball game. So quarterbacks, I'm not sure that this week's gonna change all that much based on what we know. So it's going to remain kind of a tough position

to sort out. But some other positions will will I think it'll be important context here, the receivers, the corners, the stop watch positions. You know, I want to see how some of these pass rushers move, and you know, so the three cone and short shuttle drills. To me, I don't know how you guys feel. There's one position that, above all is the deepest and the best position in this draft, and that's pass rusher ed rushers. To me,

it is by far the deepest position. And so you know, I was doing my pre combined rankings last night, putting that all together, and I'm going through and I'm like, okay, well, how many pass rushers in the top one hundred. I do my top ten. I'm like, now there's more, all right, top fifteen, there's more top twenty, And I'm still leaving guys out that I'm like, man, he Beach should be in the top one hundred so pass rushers this week. I'm excited to see him see how these guys test.

My guy, Trevon Walker from Georgia, want to see if he lives up to the hype I've been putting on his name. So it's gonna be a fun week that hopefully adds context to these evaluations we've been working on.

I'm glad you brought up edge rusher because having those conversations around the draft class and kind of looking at these rankings back and forth, it feels like one of the only positions that's complete this year because you do have that high, top heavy talent pool like a Cavon Thibodeau out of Oregon, the Aidan Hutchinson's of the world out of Michigan, and then even after that you've got

late first round guys. You have a complete board off of your edge rushers around that it really doesn't feel like there's not a whole lot of positions elsewhere because you can talk about quarterbacks. You mentioned there's not going to be that high end, high profile quarterback at the top of this draft. So with all of that being said, where does this rank from a draft class? Excitement for you because I mean, with me, I'm looking at edge rusher,

maybe wide receiver just because it's deep. Again, not really the top heavy guys at that position. But I really don't get as excited about this draft just based off of the fact of the top heavy star power, right, But there's a lot of ways you can make your team better because of how deep it is in a couple areas, no doubt. And yeah, this is not relative to past years. This is not a great year to

be picking top fifteen. It's just not a top heavy draft. Now, you're still gonna get good players there, but relative to past years, we're missing those blue chippers at the top. But that doesn't mean that it's not a good draft. And so I've heard so many people characterize as a bad draft or a down draft, and it's just that's just not true because when you see the value, there's Pro bowlers in this draft, future Pro bowlers, and you

just go find them, go go go get them. And so yeah, I think pass rusher, I think I think your point is valid. Pass rusher at every stage of the draft, you feel like it's a it's a good position, where you can't really say that about every other position. Wide receiver. To me, there's six receivers in the top twenty five this year. But then you know, it takes a little bit, there's a little of a lull, you know, later on corner I really like the corners in the

first round. I think we could see three in the top fifteen and then but then there's a little bit of a lull before we get to some other levels of the cornerback position. So I think, I think what you said is fair pass rusher. The only position that you point to and say, okay, it's deep at the top or strong at the top, deep in the middle, and then it'll stretch out so you still feel like you're getting good players well into day three. Let me ask you this, and it's what I find so fascinating

about this class. And I know, I mean you you have your own grades and your own process and your own confidence every year. But the recurring talking point on this class is like, outside of maybe eight prospects at the top right, it's like set your own board, you know, And is that more fun or more stressful as somebody who does this all year round, who wants to be as right as possible, This seems like it could be a stressful class where you know you gotta stack these tackles.

You got to figure out how you feel about all these addreshers in corner. It just seems like we talk about this all the time. A guy could go to the Cowboys at twenty four that somebody else has graded in the top ten or vice versa, Like maybe the Cowboys draft a guy at twenty four that everybody else is like you picked him in the first round. Like it just seems more so than any year. It kind of seems like this is a year where everybody is

fending for themselves. Yeah. Absolutely, I think it speaks to you have you have to have confidence in what you what what you see. You know, there's a reason why you gave this player a a second round grade and then oh see him in the first round and other mocks and things like that, and it's well, okay, well why do you have him the second And you have

to have confidence in what you're doing. Um, there are certain players where you know, I think you can come around on or like you other people, you you don't don't just take what everyone else says. I mean to me, like, just from speaking from my experience, I've got you know, my my short list of people that I trust what they say, and I'll take what they say and take it to heart and listen and try tore it out. But yeah, it's just it's just one of those drafts.

And to me that makes it fun because I use the baseball analogy all the time. Like, if you expect me to hit a thousand percent on you know these players, you're gonna be disappointed, just like if you expect Mike Trout to you know, hit about a thousand. And I'm not trying to compare myself to mat Mike Trout in anyway. Hey, you're the Mic Trout of the draft. I'll take that. But again, if you're a baseball player and you got on base four times out of ten, you're doing a

heck of a job. And so you know, it's not the same quite the same, But you know you're gonna miss on some of these guys and that's fine. Um, but that's what I love about the Draft Guide, or you know why, being able to put all my opinions

out there on hundreds and hundreds of players. Um, you know, I put a lot of confidence in that, and it served me well to this point and I really like what you said about there's gonna be a lot of prospects in this draft where people are gonna come around on them, because I feel like this draft more than others. I'm looking at my board and I'm like, Okay, I'm confid and where I have this guy, But maybe I

need to go back and watch him again. We were talking about a couple of prospects even before we went on air, about how, hey, maybe I need to go back and watch this guy because somebody else an example, the sky More wide receiver out of you were gonna try and say that you were going to say for the third, but let's just get out of the way because he's the only player Jeff Kavanaugh wants to talk about. Dude, he's so let's just put it to everybody for hearing

for now. What do you think about sky Moore? I think he's the heag of a player, um I think, And he might think he's gonna surprise people that this week he's not a burner, but don't be surprised heroes in the low four force. Uh like that That's what I was told. So, um, I what I love most about him, and I think he'll also be one of the I love the Gauntlet drill. I think he'll be one of the best performers in the Gauntlet drill because he's so good with those quick hitters of slants, catching

the ball away from his body. Um, he's so tough squares up the catch point. Um uh there's I mean, I don't know when you list the reasons not to like him, it's like you're kind of like nitpicking more so than like a fatal flaw with this guy. So I don't think he's a slot only but I do think he is projects best in the slot where he can do the most damage. So in my opinion, yeah, I see a top top sixty, top seventy five guy in this drafting. He's my ninth receiver in my rankings.

So that makes me feel a little bit better because I was talking to Dave earlier and I said I had him seventeen, which is really low. Like I'm looking at some of these guys in front of him that I really like more than him. But you're talking about fatal flaw. I agree with you. I don't have a

fatal flaw with him. And if I'm nitpicking at his cons like you said, I thought he was a slot only guy, and he may be moving forward, but if he's able to show some versatility and if he runs in the four fours, that could potentially change my thought process too, because at least looking at him, he plays fast, he doesn't play exceptionally fast, and if he comes out and runs in the low four fours, then I might

have something there to look at. Something we always talk about these players is understanding their journey where they came from. He wasn't a receiver in high school. Here's a quarterback and cornerback, so you know there was an adjustment period for him, and that I feel. I still think there's upside there. I still think he's learning how to be a more polished receiver and he's gonna get better and better.

So um yeah, I think with sky Moore, you feel really good about the player you have now, but you feel even better about what he's going to be two years, three years from now. And as long as we're at this, let me tell you something about my buddy Jeff Kavanaugh. Like when when he gets excited about something, you know, caution goes out, Caution goes to the wind. That's why we waited until Jeff's not on the show. Yeah, and then we have Dane Brooke, I think to talk to this. Yeah, Dane,

Dane Will Dane shot him down and pretty quicker. You shot Jeff down. You kind of killed his dream. I give Jeff credit because he when he sees a guy he likes, he's not afraid, he buys in and he honestly I would rather make Jeff stand on the table and be wrong or rather than Dan. I think Dane gave a very similar scouting report as Jeff. Dane is just a rational human being, whereas Jeff is just all

excitement all the time. Right, You're exactly right. I wanted to hit on this too because and I'm curious, I'm not I'm I'm asking this more than stating it. It feels to me like the testing pool is going to be a little bit disappointing here, just in the sense, you know, at the top of my mind, obviously because of who I am as a person. Derek Stingley is not going to work out this week. Um, I saw it.

You mentioned Drake London might not work out. It seems like we're going to be missing some sex appeal and Evan Neil I believe isn't going to do anything at this combine, right, So top tackle for a lot of a lot of people. Do you do you feel like it's less than most years or am I exaggerating? I think it happens every year where and most of these guys are injurily. If Derek Stingley working his way back from the foot injury, not quite ready, Drake London working

his way back from injury, not quite ready. Jeremy Ruckert Ohio State tight end foot injury at the Senior Bowl, not quite ready. So we have that every year. Um with this year, I think we still will have some like the wide receivers and corners. I think we're gonna have a lot of a lot of guys test really well. Chris Olive from Ohio State. I don't think people understand how fast this guy is. Uh ten eight guy in

high school in one hundred meters, He's gonna blaze. Um, you know, I think Baylor, Baylor brought a track team. It's crazy with Baylor the athletes they have most some of them are on the defensive side of the football as well. With Barns the corner, He's he's my vote for the fastest forty this week. Should be in the four threes. Wow, maybe gets lower than that. Even um JT. Woods the safety. He can fly a very fast linear athlete, So those guys will test really well. Treill Bernard the

linebacker from Baylor. Taekwon Thornton the wide receiver, so Baylor mentioned Jalen Petrie in there as well. Yeah, and I hope he runs well. I don't know they's gonna run well. I don't think that that's necessarily his strength as a player, But I think he'll be okay. I think he'll do well for himself. And he's to me he's in the top fifty mix as one of the better safeties this year. But you know, I don't I don't know that it's

necessarily that much different than past years. I think that you with no Evan Neil, it's an opportunity for Ricky stay Tackle to say, hey, this is why I belong number one. I put him at number one of my mock draft, and wow, uh hey, I don't obviously the Jaguars and I don't think they have any idea who they're taking number one, but uh, you know, it's a chance this week to show what he can do in this show that he's, you know, not just one of

the top players, he is a top player. It's ironic because drafting Jamar Chase clearly worked out for the Bengal But the Jags situation at one reminds me of the Bengals last year, where I'm like, just just draft to tackle, please, please protect, please protect that long haired quarterback taking any more damage. It's exactly right you want to find. And that's one of the things I want to talk to Dan about too, is where you have those tackles ranked.

You talked about a quantu, but we've talked about Charles Cross at Neil Cross being from Mississippi State, Neil of course from Alabama. But then you've got a quantu who really seems like he's jumping up draft boards as just I've heard the word nasty thrown around with him, and his tape certainly stands up to the billing there as well. But is that where you see kind of what we were talking about with edge rusher early, those top heavy players that could certainly make an immediate impact at the

top of this draft, maybe in those top fifteen players. Yeah, and with a quantu, he's just He's so explosive at contact in the run game, it's really a sight to behold. Um, and he's a better athlete. Thank people give him credit for Uh in a lot. I mean, he's never been called small in his life, but in a lot of ways, he's kind of a smaller McKay Beckton with the way he moves out there. And uh, you know, I wrote my report how you watch his tape and and there's

more pancakes than iham. I mean, it's just he he finishes to the ground and he does not apologize for it. And that's the type of guy you want to coach. And I think he's got the most refined player in the world. No, but he he showed this year, at least in my mind, he proved he could play tackle. He could stay on the outside, but he could also

move inside play guard. So when you have his combination of all the traits that he offers, with the explosiveness, the power, and the fact that you think he's only going to get better as he develops it and gets more experience, I'm all in on a quando. I like to think if you're not if you're not aware, Dane is going to spend this entire week doing draft interviews.

Probably I just imagine you standing in your mirror at home working on your draft analogies more pancakes than I bringing a track team to the comment sitting here, coming ready with the word play, and I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna probably use that on the blitz or something down the road. That's the finest form of flattery, my friend,

real quick before we take this break. That So, from what I'm hearing from you, and especially without without a quarterback who is, it's probably not going to change a whole lot with what happens with them this week. From what I'm hearing with you is it sounds like there's anywhere from like ten to fifteen guys that could really jump onto the radar in terms of like big time

first round prospects when this week is over. Whether it's an Aquanu jumping up as as a favor to be number one, or whether it's a cornerback or a receiver who maybe we're not talking about as much as we should kind of. Alave is a perfect example, Like this whole time, we've been talking about him as like a fringe first round guy. If he does the right stuff this week, he could completely change that narrative. You think

that's fair to say. I think the way we need to look at this draft is there's gonna be very little consensus, and so like in our minds, you know, because I'm with you, I'm I'm seeing Olave as a late more of a late one. Don't be surprised if a team thinks he's one of the best receivers in this draft and would take him top you know fifteen.

You know, I just when you They're just not going to be very much consensus, and so I think, you know, we have to have an open mind, all the viewers and readers have to have an open mind, all the fans because even though I think we're doing a nice job of setting the stage and you guys do a great job every week on the Draft show of setting the stage of what this draft is, still keeping an open mind because there's going to be more or less consensus this year that I think in most years. So

the combine will help influence that as well. Based off of how that these guys work out and how they run. We don't get to see the interviews, but how Cavon Thibodeaux interviews is going to play a part and where he's drafted. You know, like it's he's trying to figure out how to say this, but you know, like he's when teams interview him there, they'll have a seat for him and then they'll pull up another seat for his ego, and you know, it's just that's just how it is.

And so he has to sell himself and say, hey, I'm I'm passionate about being the best football player I could be And he needs to sell himself and worry about the other all the other stuff and other times. So you know, it's going to be important for for Thibodeau to have a good week on the field, but even more so any interviews and how he performs that that could shake whether he goes two overall or ten overall.

It's a fantastic segue for a question we've got in the second segment, So we will go ahead and take this break and get to y'all's questions in the second segment with Dan Burglar. We will be right back after this. At Smoothie King, we are blending goodness to fuel your grayness. Every blind is crafted to help you achieve your health and fitness goals. Smootie King uses only whole fruits and

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and talk XS and o's with me. Mickey Spagnola, the official travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, will take care of all your travel needs. Visit Cowboys travel dot com. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Welcome back to the Draft Show. Here from the Indianapolis Convention Center. I'm joined by Kyle Yeomans and Dane Brugler. We don't have all the funny sound effects, so I'm just gonna

say it. Dane Twitter on the twenty man. You're ready Twitter Twitter Twitter on the Twitter and Brian's not here, so we can get to some questions. We can actually maybe ten a lot of questions. So, like I said at the end of the last segment, it's the last question I wrote down from Ernie. You already said cave on Thibodeau. We can talk a little bit more about him, but he was curious about prospects who could use really good interviews this week at the combine. Obviously we don't

get to see that. Maybe some of these teams will release them later after they draft a guy, but until then we don't know. But just in terms of guys who have questions, whether it's character, whether it's football habits, whatever. Some guys that jump out to you that need to impress in the interview rooms, Well, I think you start with the quarterbacks because you obviously that's that's it's quarterbacks

an intangible position. So you have to understand what's their mental development, what's their mental capacity, Where are they when you put them on the white board and get a better sense for how they can read a defense, what they see pre snap post snap, What were their responsibilities in college, like, uh, you know, college offenses. The number one goal for a college offense is not to prepare you for the NFL. It's to win games, and so

they're going to make it as simplistic as possible. And so there's a lot of these quarterbacks just weren't asked to do things that you're gonna be asked to do in the NFL. That doesn't mean you can't do it, just means they weren't asked too. So I think that'll be big for a lot of these quarterbacks, especially you look at Malik Willis coming from that scheme with you free, um, Matt Carroll with Lane Kiffin, a very an offense that's designed around uh, set throws where you don't have to

make a ton of progression reads. And so that'll be big for these quarterbacks. Um. You know. I I think for a lot of these players, it's maybe understand Ark getting a better sense for you know, why the production wasn't better, Uh de marven le Al from A and M like, Okay, you've got the trades, you got the skills, you know, why weren't you more of an impact player? Uh? You know, and kind of challenge him a little bit on that, you know, Derek Stingley that that's gonna be

a big one. M I know, you guys have talked extensively about Stingley, and you know, is he and alpha? Is he can he come in and be at number one? And is it more than just durability questions? Does he have that it factor to be worthy of a top pick um And so, you know, I think that, Uh, A lot of these players are coming in and you know, we see what's on film. Uh, we see their talent,

and that's maybe the easiest part of the process. The second, you know, the other part of the process is understanding who they are as people. Do they fit with your culture, do they fit with what you're trying to build? Are they good human beings? Off the field? A lot of these guys just they don't fit what you're looking for. And so after an interview, you're not talking to a scout.

He told me that they cross off more names from their list based off of interviews that did not go the well the way they thought, compared to anything that happens on the field this week. So, you know, bad forties and things like that. They cross off more names because of the interviews than anything else, because they realize, Okay, this guy's just not a fit for what we're trying to build in our in our building. It sounds like the world's most public job fair of all time, because

I mean that's what it is. It's it's performance based, sure, but there's an interview aspect and there's that personality side to it. And one of the names that I thought of first was Jordan Davis too out of Georgia, defensive tackle. Maybe in that conversation about his production and his collegian scheme. Is he able to play three downs in the NFL? Is he able to make a lengthy impact drive to

drive for an interior of a defensive line. That's something that I would ask throughout as a scout because I want to know if he's going to make an impact not only on first and second down, but can he get it done on third down as well and continue to stop the run the way that he does whenever he's out on the field period. It's funny because it's definitely the world's most public job fair, But the irony is some of the most important information never sees the

light of the light of day. Yeah, between the medicals, which again I think we everybody agrees, is the really the reason why we're here, absolutely, and then the interviews and maybe the best of the best of draft media might uncover a few of these things. Maurice Hearst comes

to mind, sitting right here. Yeah, I think I think we were doing a showy Brian wanted to draft Maurice Hearst in the first round and we find out he's got an irregular heartbeat on the show, and I think I think Brian just shut down for the rest of the day. But but like, maybe two or three of those things will come out, And meanwhile, every team, I'll

never forget. I'm not going to say the guy's name, but like the Cowboys people told me after the fact, they were like, yeah, we know you love that guy. We were never going to draft him because of something that was wrong with him. And I'm just like, wow, I wish I had known that in February. But I understand why you don't yet comblicize that information for a reason. But it goes back to the intimacy of these conversations

and the importance of them as well. I mean, that's why the convention center is as big as it is here in India's because they have all these rooms and you have all these interactions that are crucial to who is ultimately going to end up on your roster. So we're not interested in getting too deep into the Cowboys weeds. But Stephen Jones, interviewed with Cowboys media yesterday, was pretty

noncommittal about A Mari Cooper's history with the team. So Mario asked, if A Maria Cooper's not here, what is the likelihood of drafting a receiver in the first three rounds? I think we would all agree that if that's the case, it's fairly likely. Yeah, it's likely. So I'm going to skip that part of it, But I'm curious to hear from you, Dane. We can do a little bit on the first round, guys. I feel like we've covered a

lot a lot of that. But if the Cowboys find themselves needing a receiver that badly, what about some Day two options that intrigue you for them? I don't think this is sorry, this is assuming Amari's not on the team. So what type of receiver you think they go after? Do you think they want a pure outside guy? Do you think they'd be open to a slot in that situation?

I guess I guess they could go in any direction. Really, yeah, because if you're not bringing back Amari, there's a chance to try and maybe try to lock up Michael Galla. Wilson could come back. So let's say I would probably say outside receiver would most likely be the biggest replacement for him. Maybe given that CD can play in the slot, I would assume you'd be looking at it outside, right, Okay, and that's once we get to day two. We're getting

the guys with question marks. Uh, you know, the George Pickens of the world, you know from Georgia, who is kind of the offensive version of Derek Sting. You know, he had that great freshman year and then things kind of tailed off from there. So the medicals gonna be big for George Pickens this week. I don't know if we're going to see him work out or not, because he's had the ACL last spring. I don't know if he feels one hundred percent just yet, so that'll be

important to watch. John Metchi from Alabama, who I mean, you want to hear Nick Saban gush, which he doesn't do a ton, but you want to hear him gush. Ask him about John Metchi and he calls him the epitome of a wide receiver when you talk about the toughness, the route running, the intangibles. John Metchi, how did she chance to go in the first round? But then he added the ACL and so you know this, this franchise has not been scared to draft guys coming off injury.

I was about to say so, yeah, second round baby right by John Metchi in the second round. Yeah, that would absolutely be a possible fit. A guy that could play inside or outside. Not I don't think he has like that elite skill where average size, average speed, but he's just a he's already a professional with how he operates and plays the position. Um David Bell from producing that mix. Um, he's kind of like a maybe a poor man's Michael Pittman, you know, like non explosive but

just solid down the field. Christian Watson from North Dakota State. Uh, he's still really raw as a route runner, but he's got athleticism. He's still figuring out how good he can be like those justin Ross from Clemson. This is a big, big week from him. Uh, you know, he looked like a future top ten pick after that College football playoff is freshman year and then things kind of tailed off and so teams are trying to figure him out this week.

So there's some interesting options on Day two at receiver. So I'm gonna pair that with a question from Cowboy Rattler of the of that crop Day two guys, is there a guy that stands out to you as a route runner? Well? I think John Metchi definitely, um and we need to talk about John or Jalen Tolbert from South Alabama, but he's in that mix two. But in terms of a route runner, I have to say Metchi.

I think he'd be the the more most polished of the group, and in just understanding how to attack leverage, how to manipulate coverages, how to work the chemistry with your quarterback, and be on time, on schedule with everything you're doing out there. Metchie has that. Again, if he's available for you in the second round, it's really because of that injury and nothing else. So I think Metchi would stand out as a guy that brings that polish as a route runner that maybe you don't usually see

at that point in the draft. I really like Metchi and at that spot, I mean, like you said, second round, if he's there fifty six, I'm gushing at the fact that he could potentially be available, of course if Amark Cooper Mark Cooper is not a part of the team. However, I just want to play Devil's advocate here. He had some problem with bald skills to a certain extent. I mean, that wasn't the strong part of his game, but separation, route running, his ability to find himself into space, where

all things that he did very very well. How much are you worried about the fact that he hasn't necessarily shown that elite ball skills that some of the other guys that would be considered first round receivers maybe second round receivers have in this class. Yeah, and you know, he had a share of drops, but I think his drop rate overall, considering the amount of targets he had,

is okay. It's not like an alarming number, and so even though he did have some drops, it's not something that I think it would really stop me from drafting him. Is he a guy that consistently plays bigger than he is not necessarily not compared to like a Drake London or some of these other guys who you know, play above the rim and are able to expand their catch

radius and crazy ways, he's not that guy. But and again, I think that's what it goes back to, maybe not having that elite trait, but just being solid across the board. And I think there's something to be said about that consistency, going back to your point about just being comfortable with a lack of consensus. Would it surprise you at all?

I actually goes in the first round, that would surprise me, just because I think there's six receivers in that top twenty five in my opinion, and so if he goes ahead of one of those six, that would surprise me. Um. And then if we had more than six, I think that would surprise me. UM. So, especially with the a cl we're not gonna be able to see him work out. UM.

I think you know, Kyle's point is is valid. He had I always worry about guys that had more drops than touchdowns over the career, and Met she's one of those guys. One more drop in his career compared to touchdowns. Um, And that's that's not ideal. So I would be surprised if we saw him sneaking to that first Who are those six wide receivers? I'm just curious, uh, for me, it's Garrett Wilson at one. He's my clear cut top guy. Wow.

Traylon Burkes to Drake London three, Jamison Williams four, and Williams would be higher if not for the AC I mean just that that speed. We were robbed of not being able to see him this week at the combine. He doing more like two tilligence on him. He comes from my track family, his entire family track athletes. So apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. There uh

five of Lava six. John Dotson to me, all six of those guys belonging to top twenty five picks, and probably all six probably won't go out of high so a team picking twenty seven to thirty five will get good value there. Nice. I love. I love forward thinking questions from people that are trying to problem solve. So Wayne and Johnny both ask similar questions about different players. They're looking for j Ron Curse if j Ron Curse isn't able to be retained in free agency. So Wayne

wants to know. And I think it's interesting because I think of both of these guys more as cover safeties than box safeties. Dax Hill out of Michigan and obvious and Quon Brisker out of state. And again I think of those guys more as coverage guys, but they both want to know, like, are those guys capable of thriving in more of a box sort of linebacker hybrid type of role. See. I think if you're keeping Dax Hill in the box, I think you're just you're not doing him.

You're doing him a disservice. You know, his athleticism, his versatility, that's why you drafted Daxil. Because if you're drafting Jack Hill, you're doing it in the first round. So you know, I think if you're gonna get a guy like that, you want him to play the nickel. You want to play over the slot receiver. You want to play more of a split safety where he's gonna cover half the field. You want him showing off that athleticism because Dax Hil is gonna tear it up this week. He's gonna have

outstanding numbers. And that athleticism is why you draft Dack Hill in the first round. So you know, I if you're gonna draft them just to play on the box, I think you're maybe doing them a disservice and you might as well, wait and draft a different safety at a different point in the draft. Brisker, I think is more of that box guy that he played a lot

of box at Penn State. Um, you know, the mistackles piled up for him this year, but he's also injured and so that's that's something with him that you're trying to figure out, is you know how much did the injuries cause the mistackles? But jico On Brisker should be another top tester this week at the safety position. Okay, as long as we're with DBS, and I am interested in this. You mentioned cornerbacks maybe improving their stock this week.

I feel like Sting, Sauce Gardner, and Andrew Booth are like really the only three that I hear about is in terms of first rounders. Wow, you didn't mention my number one corner Oh God, who am I forgive him? From Florida? Oh McDuffie from Washington. We talked about, We talked about my I'm gonna say it again, my apologies to Washington because I feel like they deserve so much more credit for franking out DBS there out West and

we will ball in the league every year. We can talk about DBU later and whether or not the Ben Rouge or up in the Pacific Northwest. I got nothing to say, but okay, so Chris want Chris wants to know first of all, and his question is mainly like, is cornerback a realistic scenario for the Cowboys? How does the fact that Calvin Joseph and Nashan Wright are sitting there on the depth chart? How does it play into that? On top of whether or not you think it's a

good idea. Maybe, yeah, let's just kick around some names, because I don't think any of us think Gardner and Stingley are going to be there at twenty four, but maybe some guys who would be. Yeah, and maybe and Andrew Booth makes it to you at a Clemson who's a really exciting player just still getting better and better. Um, I want to hear from you guys, just with the corner the current depth chart, the cornerback position. They invested

two corners in the top three rounds last year. You saw a little bit of them up and down, and so what's the feeling in the building of those two guys going into next season? Go first, I'll follow up. I'll start with me like it terrifies me. It's a chart the situation right now, because like on paper, you're like, we spent two top one hundred picks on this position. Yeah, and on top of that, we have an all pro now,

so we're sure you're set there. Anthony Brown and Jordan Lewis were absolutely good enough that I'm not worried about getting rid of them. But you got to start thinking about the future. Anthony Brown, now in the last year of his extension, probably not going to do that again. And I think I think, I think the Cowboys are optimistic that the arrow is pointing up, particularly on Kelvin Joseph. But is it enough that if that guy's sitting there, you go away from it. I don't think so. I

definitely don't think so. And that's my thing too, is Kelvin Joseph could could come in, be that slot guy in the future, could play in the slot, could play outside. Who knows, maybe that Anthony Brown Jordan Lewis role. He can kind of fill in whoever's not on the field. We can't see him do it this year. That's my that's my point. That's kind of what I'm getting to, is the fact that he was expected to be a heavy part of the rotation later in the season and

he never got there. Now, does that mean he's not going to be there in twenty twenty two? Not necessarily. I think there's still a chance that he sees a heavy amount of snap work and is able to show some versatility in his game at the cornerback spot as

soon as the year kicks off later in the fall. However, if there is a there at either twenty four or at fifty six that you fall in love with, that doesn't mean you shouldn't take him just because you have four guys right now that you feel have the opportunity to play significant number of snaps for you. Do you think twenty four like what McDuffie's Well, you have him as your CB one, So I mean did The name to watch is gonna be Kyler Gordon, McDuffie's teammate at Washington.

Kyler Gordon's gonna just have a ridiculous week and he's got a fascinating background. He was kung fu and a dance champion growing up. Wow, that translated at the football field, the basketball court forum in high school. And then he goes to Washington and it is up and down a start, Like, I don't know that he has the most natural instincts, but when you talk about a guy that with size and his athleticism and you know, can make plays on the ball when it's in his area. He's the toughness.

He will lay out guys. So when you put that all together, it's like, yeah, he doesn't maybe have those elite instincts, but he's got what you can't teach with the movements and he's you know, he's a physical, competitive kid. So I think Kyler Gordon, if he tests like we expect him to test pencilman the first round, he's going to go that high. So there's a lot to work

with Kyler Gordon. This is this is what this is what you miss with not having Dane, because like we can watch the tape and tell you what we think, but Dane's like, yeah, this guy's a black belt, that's true. Kung fu martial arts. Yeah, that's what he was. His mom was a kind of like a gymnastics teacher, so got him into all these different things and he was mister Spotlight at like nine years old all these dance competitions. So I'll tell you what that flexibility and quickness that

that translated. And just to back up your point, Dave, is the fact that I'm looking at what Dane is looking at on his laptop right now. There is nothing here that says anything about a dance background or a taekwondo machine, Like I have to go pull up scouting reports just to talk about players, whereas Dane just has it off the top. It's pretty like Dana, I'm shocked at everywhere the Beast. I assume you don't have a release date, but I'm guessing like beginning of April, first

week of April is always the goal. And so Kyle, you mentioned how it's March already and I'm kind of sweating right now thinking about that. Um, but yeah, yeah, we'll get it done somehow somewhere. As he's the Beast, it's the best, It's the best draft guy that exists. You're doing a disservice if you don't get it. Keep an eye out for that, all right, Rich. I love this.

I love the way people get scarred by picks U. Rich wants to know more about David A. Jabo and the fact that in the Michigan Oh yeah, yeah, you know where I'm going. I don't even have to say this. I am Taco. I don't know you did more. Sorry, it's okay, don't scout the helmet. Uh. You know, David Dajabo and Taco Charlton of very little in common except they played in ann arbor Um Ojabo and we can talk about guy's gonna impress it the combine. He went

to high school with Jason Oway. Oh, Dafeway, who's the first round pick of the Ravens last year, ran off four three seven at the forty in the forty at Pence's pro day last year. Oh, just ridiculous. David Jabo will tell you that he used to beat away in hundred meter dashes in high school. So he's gonna light it up this week and you see it on the field. Now. Do you have to hide him a little bit in

there as a rundefender, Yeah, you do. He's still figuring out how to set the edge and be a functional run defender, especially at his size. But if you want a guy that can get after the quarterback, he finished second in the Big Ten this year in sacks. And who do you finish behind? Just hi Adan Hutchinson his teammates, So you know he can do a lot of things for you as a pash rusher, and he's been playing

football for five years, still growing, still learning. I mean, we're talking about him, and I'm not sure we need to because he's not made at twenty four wow, So no way is there any question mark around him. Just the fact that, like you mentioned, his teammate Aidan Hutchinson drew so much of that attention, drew so much of the looks from opposing teams in the Big Ten to where maybe it did allow for a job out to kind of see a free release at different times throughout

his film. I mean, he still has to beat his blocker. I mean, did he see you know, fewer double teams in Hutchinson. Yeah, but he's supposed to beat this guy and he did consistently. So I mean that that is something I think is fair to point out, but it is not something that would stop me from drafting. I mean, I think when you look at the pass rushers this year,

a lot of split opinions about how you rank these guys. Hutchinson, Thibodeaux, Travan Walker for me is up there, um, and then you throw Jabos in there, and then Jermaine Johnson and then if you want to throw Karloftis in there as well. So that's six guys that should all be in that top twenty conversation. I get real excited when you mentioned like six guys, and because I think you've said it about four different positions at this point, and I'm like, well,

they can't all go, they can't all go. Dan will be here at twenty four. All right. One one more from my buddy Randall. A lot of people worried about the Cowboys offensive line, and rightfully so, um he wants to know. And we've I mean, we've beaten the first round prospects into the ground at this point. But if they were to double dip at the position, can you imagine a way that that would look like maybe a first rounder and then again on Day two or what

have you? Sure? And I think nothing should be off limits when we talk about offensive line and the Cowboys don't want to go tackle makes sense? Guard? Okay, upgrade at center. I think that's something that should be on the table and something they need to consider. So uh yeah, I no team is set on the offensive line, not a single team in the NFL. And so if you double dip in the first three rounds on the offensive line.

Not only does that make sense, but it's smart. Um, you know, it's it's especially when you think about the Cowboys and the identity they want to have on offense. You need you need to give your quarterback help, You need to give your running game help, and I think that this draft is set up to do that. When you look at the offensive line in the first round. If they there's there's at least a scenario where no interior offensive linement is off the board before the Cowboys pick,

which would be I think a great situation. If that's a direction want to go. If they want to go at Tyler Lennard Baum at center, if they want to go to Kenyan Green from a and m Zion Johnson, I think is in that mix as well. But if they also want to wait until second or third round, I think the position stretches. I love Luke Fortner from Kentucky or Cole Strange from Chattanooga two centers in the third round. I think those guys will be starting in

the NFL. You know, Tyler Smith from Tulsa is a really intriguing player because he's one of the youngest players in the draft. He's got a really interesting mix of power explosions. His fundamentals just need rebuilt from the bottom up, and so he's not ready to play right away. But what you're thinking about what he could be down the line, Tyler Smith's easy to get excited about. Bringing up Tyler Smith from Tulsa. Keep keep an eye on that name just in the future. Keep keep an eye on that name.

I think that's something that could possibly come up again. I love how thorough y'all are, like. I think I wrote down a list of names I want to get to in the third segment. I think we've covered half of them into this segment. So why don't we go ahead and take that second break and we'll get into that in a little bit more detailed. To round this up, we'll be right back. Football season is almost over, and that means tax season is here. With it comes taxiety.

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Va dot gov. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft Show wrapping up this first episode of Combine week. On the Draft Show, it's gonna be hectic. There's a lot of moving parts, there's a lot of schedules. But I think we're gonna have Dane with us for all three shows this week. I'm excited about that. Yes, showing out the cash to get a Dane on here because spare no expense for the best analyst in the game. I

agree completely. So I laughed at the time at the end of the last segment because I wrote down a list of names, Like when I prep for the show, I'm always like, who are we not talking about? That? We should be that fans want to hear about that people are talking about, and I really think Tyler Smith, that Tulsa offensive tackle, he's like right at the top of that list. So can we just expand on that

a little bit? Who he is as a prospect. He's one of the youngest players in this draft, redster sophomore, came out early, and there's gonna be a lot of split opinion on him from evaluator to evaluator because so much of his his draft grade is based on a projection what he's going to be down the road. Because when you look at the foundational traits that you want an offensive lineman, size checks that box, movement, skills checks that box play, strength there, physical brand of football is there.

It's just the fundamentals need a lot of work. The he's just incredibly raw, and so when is it be able to help your football team. That's why I would be surprised if you went in the first round, just because I don't know that he's necessarily going to help you right away. That's it's kind of a draft and developed type of player, and that's hard to take in the first round. But you know, we've seen the worst

offensive lineman go in the first round. You know Isaiah Wilson, you know the Titans took in the first round two years ago. Well, if that's the case, then maybe that one. But my point is is that Tyler Smith, I think is you're more oftenistic about him than you were about Isaiah Wilson. So the offensive line is such a starved position around the league that guys like this don't last very long. So maybe he sneaks into that top forty mix.

But again we're talking about a guy that needs a lot of work before he's you know, the guy that you expect him to be. No, no surprise on this. I mean, Dane's got the guy peg to a certain extent, and the reason why is because you look at the youth, but you also look at the aggression. I mean, he is one of the most aggressive, heavy hitting big guards in all of college football. Sixteen penalties this year. He's as fans don't want to hear, something phenomenal, six foot six,

three hundred and thirty pounds. Of course, we'll see what he's weighed at this week. He did not go to the Senior Bowl because, of course, he's twenty one years old by the time the draft he's actually not twenty one yet. Still, he will be twenty one when the draft comes around for like twenty five days prior to

the first round. But he's one of those guys that I think Dallas has their eye on in that second round because, like you said, because of the unpolishedness, because the reason why he maybe has those penalties is because there are some ways that he can grow in his game. But if he's able to grow in his game, he

wouldn't just be a starter this year. He'd be a starter in the future if maybe they move on from Connor Williams at that spot, if there's something that they could upgrade there, but they don't necessarily want to spend that high in the first round. If he's at fifty six and he's the selection, don't be surprised and also be happy about that because I think that's something that could really benefit this football team and especially the rotation

and the offensive line moving forward. He mentioned his aggression, and that's that's the strength and the weakness. You love to see it, You love to see the way he plays, but at the same time, it leads to chaotic timing and you go have a tallencl right and it's sixteen penalties this year, like that's that's that's an issue. Obviously, he needs to grow and mature and I will he reach that point hopefully, but again there's more of a projection with him, which is why we're probably looking at

more of a second round pick. Yep. It sounds weird to say about an offensive line that struggled as much as this one day in the second half of the year, but if there's a unit that could take a guy who needs a year to sit and develop, it's probably this one still, yeah, because I mean, you still have starters available at every position, and honestly, how often do second round picks come in and beat the difference between

you win. You're losing a division, right you know, Like it's just you have to frame it that way when you're talking about, you know, who's gonna especially in the second first round maybe a little different discussion, but second third round, it's a long term investment more so than who's gonna, you know, fill that need right away that we have Kelvin Joseph an example that we saw earlier in the show and what we've seen this past year. And then you ask the question of earlier how could

the double dip happen. Maybe if you take a Tyler Linderbaum who falls to you at twenty four, if that's even possible, then you turn around you want to upgrade the guard spot as well and just completely redo your offensive line. That could be a way to do it. Sticking with offensive line, senior Bowl guy that I feel like we didn't give just attention to Bernard Ryman Sentman the Austrian. First of all, the story just an amazing backstory.

He was a wide receiver, came over to the United States, moves a tight end, goes to Central Michigan tight end his first few years, and not only did he make the tight end to tackle transition, he did it in the midst of a pandemic. So it's just a really rare thing hin with him. Not the longest player, doesn't have the widest range, but he's doubt at the point of attack for a guy that has not been playing the position very long, he understands how to best use

his body posture and the technique. And so yeah, Bernard Raymond, I think he's somewhere in that late first round and absolutely should be on the radar for the Cowboys at twenty four. See that's see twenty four. I that actually surprised me. I thought you would say something of fifty

six to the third round. The fact that you said, I mean, really, I don't think he's is another one of those things of ceiling in terms of looking at guys in the way that they could based on their backstory, the way that they can improve because they're so raw at the position at the moment. Yes, but I really don't think that Raymond is is. I mean, he is raw, but not to the extent that I would it would hesitate me from throwing him out there from day one.

I think he can handle it. I mean, I think because he is a little bit older guy, and I think he is one of the most genuine people I've ever talked with my life. Like he's just a really smart guy who understands where he needs to get better, what his strengths are. And I think that self evaluation at self awareness goes a long way with young players, and so I think he's going to be a really solid pro early in his career. I swear to God, the entire Georgia defense is going to get drafted. It's

not that pretty close. It's that. But a guy that I don't think we've really talked about is uh the third of these Georgia linebackers. Kway Walker. In this instance, Oh, he might be the I think you should be the second drafted of these Georgia linebackers, behind the Kobe d in front of Channing Tindall. Uh quay Walker. He looks like a defensive I mean he's like sixty three and a half two fifty and I bet you runs in the mid four fives this week. He's gonna tear it up.

One year starter. He's got that inside outside versatility, He's got the experience doing both. Outstanding athlete. There's a lot to like about kway Walker in the second round. I don't know that he makes it to the Cowboys second round pick, but if he does, if you're looking for a linebacker, kway Walker would be the dude. He's my third linebacker as well. I mean I have Dean, then Lloyd, there's a little bit of a gap there and then

you've got kway Walker sitting there. I agree. I think he could bring that pass rusher mentality if if he is able to get there to fifty six. But I don't think that's gonna happen. I always I always geek out about like the thirty three to seventy five pick range, but because they're all great players, but they slipped especially No, it feels even, it feels even deeper this year. Absolutely, Uh,

it's sixty players deeper. You're gonna be geeking wake wake me up when the first round's over, Like I'll figure that, Like that's fine. Just don't worry about thurday night. I'll

show up Friday. You mentioned you mentioned him earlier in the show, but I'd like to talk a little bit more about Justin Ross because I do remember him looking like he was going to set the world that that that the playoffs with the year Slimson receiver for the year clumpson one national title, Thank Trevor Lawrences freshman year. Justin Ross, uh freshman receiver Notre Dame in Alabama. Those two games. He went over three hundred yards combined in those in those two games with a couple of just

ridiculous highlight reel grabs. He just okay, pencilman the top ten a couple of years from now, but had the next surgery and then he missed this the he had season ending foot surgery this year. He was cleared to work out this week. So what type what type of athlete we're talking about post injuries? Post two pretty serious injuries, UM, and the medicals be obviously important for him. So justin Ross is kind of the I don't know quite what

to do with him like that. That's the type of player that could have the most fluctuation based off the combine because you're getting them clinfoe and you're seeing just what type of athlete is he post injury? Uh So this this receiver position on day two, he could maybe make a jump if he you know, hits the boxes he needs to hit here in Indianapolis, where do you

have him right now? He's like thirteen UM back end at my top one hundred, you know, just like behind guys like Pickens and David Bell, and so it's kind of like you just park them there and you kind of figure out as the process goes on to where you put him, because it's is a talented dude. He might have the biggest catch radius of any receiver in this draft. Uh. He's just really remarkable with the adjustment

skills in his length. But again, coming back from those two major injuries and just not sure what type of what type of player he is. The combine will be big for him. Is there a chance that with him? Of course, with him being on the field, he's always played really well. I mean even this year, even with the injuries, he had forty six receptions five hundred fourteen yards town Yeah, like like quarterback situation really hurt him

this yet clumps him, didn't help him out at all. Absolutely, if if everything checks out, everything looks good from the combine, is there a chance he skyrockets up to the top of back maybe top seven eight conversation In terms of receivers, I know there's probably six guys that you feel really good about right now. However, I mean seven and eight I feel like isn't out of the ordinary with a ross guy. I think, going back to what we talked

about before, how there won't be a consensus. There will be teams that see the injury history and just say, you know, no thanks, But there will be some teams that, you know, if the medical info comes back, hey two thumbs up, we think you know, we shouldn't shouldn't affect him long term, then there will be some more teams that have a little more appetite for risk that say, okay, second round, we'll roll the dice on a high, high

end talent like that with his upside. So I don't think there'd be a consensus, but yeah, would not shock me at all if we have see a team maybe draft him earlier than we think, if he's able to hit those marks this week in Indie, I would give anything to just see like ten different teams receiver boards. Oh yeah, what the differences look like. Yeah, well, and we've remember too because there's different types of receivers, different positions, you know, X, y z H. Do you do different things?

Team's value after the catch more soil than route. I mean, it's it's all over the place. So uh yeah, that's that's a great point. That is going to do it for one episode of the draft show amazing and we like, nothing's even happened yet, So if this is what we can do with nothing having happened, I'm excited for the rest of the week. Thrilled to be back with Dane Brugler. Thank y'all so much, great listening. We will be bill be back Wednesday and Thursday time TVD. Sorry about that.

We're doing what we can, but we appreciate it. For Dan and Kyle, I'm Dave. We will see y'all next time. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.