Draft Show: Bucky Brooks Joins The Show

As we are glad to bring you all the coverage for the Senior Bowl here this season alongside the great David Hellman and our special guest today, mister Bucky Brooks. I'm Kyle Yeoman's and Bucky. Welcome to the table and welcome aboard, sir. We are decited to talk some draft with a former NFL player, former NFL scouting now with the NFL Network and Fox. You're you're all over the place. You have your your hand in almost every cookie jar, but one of the big cookie jars is the NFL Draft,

and I know you're just as excited as we are. Yeah, I am excited. I'm excited. You guys do a great job, so I'm excited to just kind of be a part of it, and it's gonna be fun to kind of dive into this Senior Bowl. And also some Cowboys talk as well. I know you and I on the car ride over here, we're even talking a little bit of the Dallas Cowboys and we'll hit plenty of those twitter on the twenty coming up in just a little bit.

And then also we're gonna look through your blueprint to have a successful franchise in the NFL, building through the draft, and we'll hit that up in our final segment, and that's gonna be cool to look at and see exactly where the Cowboys stand in terms of those needs and those different blueprints that will will look at as well. But wanted to start off with the Senior Bowl and with it in mobile and Dave and I've been running around.

We've been on opposite sides of the stadium and different It's always a hectic week man, different tasks at hand, but all of us kind of having some of these same players stick out to us and some of these same guys kind of impressed us over the course of the week. So starting off with the general look of the week, who stood out to you overall, and we'll start with you, Buck, I think the best player that has been in the building has been Javonn. Ken Law

from South Carolina. I think when you look at a big man six six three ten who is able to kind of dominate and control the point of attack, you have to like those things in a league where it's becoming more important than ever to be able to dominate at the line of scrimmage. Ken Law has shown that when you look at his length, you look at his side,

you look at his versatility. I think sometimes when you look at the South Carolina tape you see him play over the center, but down here, when he's been able to play over guards, over tackles and kind of envisioning him being a piece of a three four defense, you can see where he could be a dominant force. To me, he has been one of the most impressive, if not

demo impressive player down here. I think that's really It's an interesting dichotomy too, because it goes to show, you know, it's only two or three practices and it came out this morning. Ken Law's done for the week anyway, so two practices, but it goes on to make a huge difference in the evaluation because I think, and I don't mean to knock any of these guys, but I think the other really dominant storyline is the guys who didn't participate.

You know, it was almost unprecedented how many guys were flagged at the beginning of the week. Brandon Hyuk, Christian Fulton pulled out, you know, the day that everybody got doutomobile. So I think you probably came down here with five or six first round caliber guys, maybe a little bit more. But a lot of those guys aren't doing anything. And I think Ken Law benefits from the fact that he

was out there being evaluated by all the scouts. Yeah, you do benefit when you show up because now you get an opportunity to kind of make a first impression. So the way that this would typically go, area scouts have seen him, whoever was responsible for the Southeast, they've seen him, but the director may not have seen him. Digitiman and you certainly may not have gone into South Carolina and done the school call. And then all the other scouts and then the coaches are just becoming a

part of the process. So this is their first impression. And so if you show up and show out very very early in the Senior Bowl. You now kind of have this favorable impression that you left on guys. So then when you go back into draft meetings, you have these people that are advocating for you, just based off

that quick snapshot, what's this week like for area scouts? Like, I mean, if that's your area, You've known about Javon ken Law for a long time, but you mentioned you know, the GM is looking at him this week, like maybe these guys are like crossing their fingers like, yeah, man, make me look smart this week. You know, there's a lot of that, like you kind of on egshells a

little bit. For the guys that you really really like, you you want to see them kind of play to the level that you believe that they played at when you went in on the school call. And so while you're here, you're looking at those guys and you're trying to kind of keep a clean slate in terms of like, look, sometimes when you go into fall, your grade may not necessarily reflect how they perform here, and so you're trying

to see do they perform to that level? Do they perform better than the level was I off a little bit when I saw him? Meaning maybe I graded him too high based on what he's done. These All Star games shouldn't hurt the prospect, but what it should do is force you to either confirm your original opinion or to make you go back and watch the take to make sure that you get them right. I actually heard a really I overheard a really great line in the

press box yesterday watching practice. Somebody was like, Oh, I don't even look at the roster during the week because I don't want the guys. I like, you know, I don't want to be hunting for the guys. I like, like, I just write the numbers down and go from there and cross check later because I don't want to be biased in what I'm wanting. And there's something too that, like there's something to confirmation bias, like kind of seeing what you want to see when it comes to it.

And I think was always interesting about the entire evaluation process. Even when you get to All Star games, you and I can sit side by side and we can watch a player performer, we can have two completely different opinions and takes, and so it's one of those things where

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But what you're trying to do here is trying to take the players that you see working in a pro system and imagine what those players would look like in ust system because the most important part of the process is fit in scheme. How does this player fit in the scheme that we run, because that's when you see players really

elevated because their perfect fits in the scheme well. And that kind of translates back to Mike McCarthy and what he said earlier in his tenure, right after he got hired, saying, hey, we're not really looking at schemes right now. And even Stephen Jones echoed that the other day when he talked to the media saying, Hey, we're gonna look at getting the best guys. We're gonna look at getting some talented guys to put on the scown Boys roster, whether it

be through the draft or be through free agency. But as a scout, and we continue talking about the scouting side of things, how tough is that to say, hey, we don't necessarily have that system fit, but we're going for talent overall, even though talent in fit kind of go hand in hand. They go hand in hand. So there are two ways that you can approach it. From

the personnel standpoint. There's the way that we talked about where fit in scheme, where the general manager or whoever's in charge, they kind of said, Okay, here are the players that we like, here's the profile, the length, the traits, here's the system that we play. We need these kind of guys to fit how we play. Then the other thing is, hey, bring me the talent and we will fit the system around what they do. So go and

get the most talented players. Go get really good football players who are productive, who are performers, don't worry about the traits, so to speak, and then we will take them. We will get them on on campus, and then once we figure out what they do well, we will slowly begin to build a system around them. There are two

different ways to do it. It really depends on the best way for your coach and what he's most comfortable doing, which I'm you know, we talked about it earlier this week, like I'm dying to know what that's gonna look like, because like we had, you know, under Rod Marinelli seven years of doing this, we kind of we had the blueprint. We're like, Okay, he's gonna go after this style of

pass rusher doesn't like to spend big resources on nose tackles. Uh, you know, you got to have this arm length to play cornerback in his system, all that type of stuff, And we're kind of starting from scratch, which we talked to Will McClay yesterday. He really doesn't like to like give out too much. Unfortunately. By the one thing I did notice, and I think Will has done two or three interviews since the season ended, he mentioned, you know,

bulking up in the interior. He's mentioned that a couple of times across a couple of different interviews. So again, like starting to piece it together, maybe Mike McCarthy wants to get a little bit beefier. You know, Rod's kind of known for those undersized defensive tackles. But as we go along, I'm dying to know, you know, what are these archetypes that you're looking for, because I mean, they don't want to admit it, but at some point you

are right, I mean you're not. I think the best way that you can do is just track the history of the de coordinator. So if you track the history of Mike Nolan, Mike Nolan typically has been a three four defensive guy. When you have a three to four, your guys on the inside like your nose tackling. You're they still called defense vans, but are really defensive backs. They're bigger, they're longer. They have to be able to

two gap. In most of those three four systems, your outside rushers, your outside players can be fast and explosive. One gap may need to be a dropper to other guy as a primary pass rusher. But it's a little different when they just talk about wanting to be bigger. For Rod and Marinellie's system, he wanted to be able to one gap penetrate like the guy who is kind of like the goal standard for interior attackers for him

would be a Warren Sap. So when you go all the way back and think about how Warren Sapp played, it was quickness off the ball, quick penetration, being able to be on the other side of the line of scrimmage with your athleticism. Well, now when you're moving potentially to a three four system, is can I occupy two blockers? So now my linebackers become two stars. Can my linebackers

run and chase? And so you will see the bulk of the team up front change because linebackers typically will get beef here because they may have to take on more blockers than they're normally used to. Your interior guys have to occupy two blockers, so you need a little more size and growth to be able to kind of hold the point, and so it will change. It'd be interesting to see how quickly you can change that defensive

line up. Well, I know we've talked about before Jalen Smith as a linebacker kind of plays better going downhill, and I might fit better into that system the way that he could. Then. Now, like you said, he might have to bulk up a little bit to shed off

some of those tacklers. But you mentioned the beef in terms of this draft, there's plenty of it to go around in the middle of the middle of the defensive line you talk about, I mean, just divine kin Law already a Cowboys fans starting to kind of fall in love a little bit with kin Law. However, the last time that the Cowboys took a defensive tackle in the draft nineteen ninety one, Yeah, Russell Men Maryland. So it's been quite a while since the Cowboys have actually gone

to interior defensive lineman in the first round. Of a draft. However, there are some guys kind of later in the pack, later in the draft that you could potentially look to to fill that role. Another one that might be here is Neville Gallimore. What did you see out of the Oklahoma defensive tackle this week and did he impress you at all in the middle of that d line. You know, I really liked him coming into the game when you watched him middle Oklahoma. I think you liked his athleticism.

I think you liked the way that he was able to penetrate very very light. You're talking about a Canadian born player, a guy who really was a basketball player into a very very late stage in terms of playing football. So when you look at his footwork, his athleticism, his movement skills, you definitely like that. In terms of being kind of like a stacking ship, like an old school guy, he's not necessarily that, but at Oklahoma you see him play and make plays what we call from tackle tackle.

His ability to pursue from the backside is something that is a little unique for a defensive tackle. So I really like him and I think he is going to be a guy maybe not in that first round conversation, but in the second round you can kind of see where he kind of fits in. I think one of the things that stuck out to me this week was the way that he used his hands. I mean, some of those one on one drills he just had just big,

meaty hands. First off, I mean, those things are those things pack a punch in its own, But just the way that he was able to kind of finish and get off the ball, I think was it was definitely something to look forward to. And something that really stood out to me was something that I didn't see on film.

And you saw the lateral ability on film, and that's where really what I saw note wise, But I think this week the hands were really and I think the most important thing when you when you're looking at those guys up front, and you heard him even on the practice field hands inside. Friz Shermer, who was decordinated for a Green Bay a long time ago when I was playing there, he always talked about guys have to play

with their hands first. So when you're looking at a defensive lineman, do they get their hands up and off and can they get inside because whoever gets inside first controls the down. And so when I look at Gallimore Gallimore does have the ability to put his hands inside. He does have the ability to kind of stack and ship and kind of move. And then with the lateral quickness, you're talking about a guy who certainly can be an into your run stuffer. Which okay, Gallimore, but I love

it when experts make me feel smart. Which we didn't prompt you into this. But all day yesterday I'm watching this number fifty five from North Carolina, Jason Jason Strowbridge, and I'm sitting there debating with myself. I'm like, Okay, this guy is killing people. But am I just watching him because like he's got this Carolina blue helmet, Carolina blue, you know, cleats just jumping off the field. But I thought he looked really impressive. He had great hands, he

had great quickness. I was impressed that it seemed like in addition to being able to overpower people, he was able to get around him. Like he looked like he had pass rush moves. Then we come down and film our post practice hit with you, and that's who you wanted to talk about too, So give me let me he's a Chapel Hill guy, I am. So. The funny thing is when you watched him doing a regular season. I don't know if anyone could predict he played more outside.

You can see it. They were okay on defense, not necessarily dominant. But right now you talk about six five five, two hundred and ninety pounds, the limp that you see his ability to play with his hands. It's really important because if you can play with your hands from a technical standpoint, regardless of size, you always have an opportunity to win. And what you see with him is because he's able to play with his hands, he plays on the other side of the line of scrammers. He quickly

disengages and gets into plays. And then when you combine hand skills with a high revend motor, then you become you begin to get a disruptive player. And we're begin to see flashes of him disrupt things in nine on seven and team drill. So the very very promising I think when you talk about day two, what you're looking at, you're looking at a guy with traits who has the toughness and the motor to be a guy that can play down in and down out. And he certainly has

shown that. Man. With the prospects of Gallimore and then Strowbridge potentially being Day two guys. There's a lot of options for the Cowboys even if they wanted to go secondary in that first round. I know a lot of Cowboys fans are already set on your guy from LSU, Grant Delpit, and you mentioned some of the guys that weren't there over the course of the week, Ashton Davis

Christian Fulton. Those are two guys that I know Cowboys fans really want to get a good look at throughout the Senior Bowl, and now they'll get their chance down the road. Another guy that I know I wanted to look at was lek A Foe two. Yeah, I'm Leaky Foe two. That's another that first one, but he was inactive over the course. He still stayed in a jersey and was walking around on the sidelines. But a big guy out of Utah on that defensive line that I

really wanted to look at as well. Yeah, the thing that you talked about, like when you talk about lak A six five, three thirty five pounds and so as you're envisioning this Cowboys defense, potentially change height and length is really important. And it's important because those interior defenders are now being asked to occupy double team blocks at the point of attack, and so you need to have the length to be able to stab one off while you're holding the other. Can you throw your hip in

the gap and do those things? And so it's the combination of the long arms with the size that allows them to stay because if they can occupy two blockers, now you have LV and Jenny Smith being able to run and chase freely. That's when the big place happened on defense, which and that's was going to bring that up when you mentioned Mike Nolan. Is you know Mike McCarthy said last week and he was not very firm on this commitment, but it sounds like they want to

have four down lineman at least for this year. Even still with the resources that you've sunk into those linebackers, it only makes sense that you want to free them up. It seemed like they had problems with that this year, and I'd be willing to beat a decent chunk of that is the lack of bulk they had in front of them. Yeah, So now the thing about the three four and the fourth three is all semantics like Mike Nolan can take that defense and he can basically make

a four three play like a three four. Like one of those defensive ends will be called a leo or a lion or elephant or whatever you want to call it, and he'll in essence be the fourth outside linebacker and the other guys would be your other traditional linebackers, and then they'll play like an over or over front, and they'll move those guys up and down the line to kind of get some advantages so those guys can stay off and run in chase, and so as they begin

to tinker with it regards of whether it's a four three or three four paper, they will align to players in a position where Jalen Smith and Vanda esh are able to run and chase. Because when you really look at their team, the speed from those two linebackers are probably the best asset of the defense at the second level.

They can run and chase, and when they're playing at their best man, they create a lot of chaos and have you want to freedom up to do what they do and be able to fly around the football and make some plays, force some turnovers, which, of course, like as we've seen in the past, it's been a little bit of a buggaboo for the Boys slightly, just a

slight buggaboo to force the turnovers. Well, we're just underway here in the Draft show from Mobile, Alabama, and we've got plenty more to get to Twitter on the twenty coming up next day with us on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. I'm Jay noba Check, former tight end for the Dallas Cowboys. Back in the day, I was the guy who always got the tough yards and that's why I run with

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based on GWS one score. September twenty nineteen. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show and no your hosts, David Hellman and Kyle Yeoman's Welcome back to the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show live from Mobile, Alabama, as always presented by Miller Light, David Hellman, Bucky Brooks, I'm Kyle Yeoman, and guys Twitter. On the twenty one of our favorite sections. Absolutely got a pause for the little

bit of that drop in the middle of there. I know that's going to be in there like last week. I don't want to talk right back over that. But we're getting there. Yeah, Yeah, we're getting there. We'll get it right at some point. However, one of our favorite segments just because we get to hear from the fans and here directly the questions that they have for us.

And we'll start things off with our boy Matt, who's always been very active with us on Twitter, asking us do you see more guys going the Nick Bosa route? Of course, Bosa and his forty nine ers going into the going into the Super Bowl and here in a couple of weeks and not playing their final year and then simply training for the NFL. Or is this something that he just could do because his brother was already in the NFL. Kind of an interesting discussion going back

and forth. Well, it's interesting discussion. But he didn't start out the season saying that he was going to train. He's suffering an injury, and then he made a decision, a business decision, rather than try and fight to come back. I'm gonna just start working on training, make sure I get really healthy so I can show scouts an evaluate because I think we have seen some of that trend where guys are beginning to kind of way the fortunes way that kind of the future over whether they should

play with their team. We've seen more guys sit out Bowl games more than ever. So as we see more guys do that, and as the public becomes increasingly more comfortable with guys doing that, I think we will see some guys begin to kind of sit out if they suffer an injury. Yeah, I think the injury is the big thing, and honestly, it seems a little overblown to me. Yeah, Bosa was dealing with a pretty severe injury. He tried to gut it through a couple of weeks realize it

probably wasn't the best idea. Leonard Fournette is another famous example, but he was I mean, he was hindered by an ankle injury for most of that season, and most of those guys that have done that are I mean, it was only what three weeks ago. Alabama is absolutely loaded with draft talent, and the vast majority of those guys played in a non playoff bowl game. Yeah, and I

think I think that's I think that's interesting. So some of it will speak to the competitiveness of the individual and the bond and the connection that he has with the team in the university, and how he feels like he should kind of uphold his end of the obligation. But I can't fall guys from making business decisions. However, I think most scouts would tell you that they would preferred to see guys kind of play it to the end.

How much does that also kind of play a factor into the coaching staff in the colleges, in the programs down there? I mean Nick Saban, of course, you know what he brings to the table in terms of the connections and the knowledge that he's able to share with his players. Maybe is that a reason why they continue to compete even in the bowl games like this Interest Bowl. Yeah, I mean I think it may have something to do

with that. I mean, obviously you always want to get a good word of recommendation, and I think because Nick Saban carries so much clout and cass when it comes to his word and reputation in NFL circles, certainly you want to leave on the right note. But I think each player has to make an individual decision to see

what is best for them. But even sitting out doesn't necessarily guarantee that they're going to what they think they're going to get when it comes to draft A And that was going to be my next question was what's a negative side of that? I know, the positives or you avoid injury, you're able to train and get your body ready for the war that the NFL does have

coming up, But what are the negative signs of that? Well, I mean football is a developmental game and you only get better by getting reps, and you have to play to become a better player. It's not like basketball where you can just kind of sit in a silo in the gym and kind of work on your game without competition.

Football you need competition to kind of hone your skills, and so the negative side would be you kind of stunt some of your development by not playing, and you can't simulate what takes on what takes place on the football field and training workouts, like you just can't do it. We've seen guys like, I mean, we saw Zeke like Zeke be awade and come back like it's just not the same when you train on you know, you have to play football to become a really good football player.

And that's why I mean between between the not only that, like you need the reps, practice and games, and then the story line that it becomes, whether it's media, whether it's you know, I mean everybody that interviews you at the combine, all through the process is going to want to know about that. I think the vast majority of guys just won't think it's worth it, Like you said, unless there's an injury concern. Yeah, if there's an injury concern,

yes you can see it. But in terms of hey, I'm just I'm gonna play my first two years and I'm gonna sit up my third geen go into the draft, I just don't know how that work. And I also like when you're away, you allow other people to potentially jump to the front of the line, like we won't, we won't have this conversation. But let's just think about to a tongue about Loa and how he was the presumptive number one pick at quarterback. Well, he kind of falls apart because he has an injury. He kind of

phades the black. Joe Burrow continues to play, and the lasting image that we have is Joe Burrow. So that's a really great point. Yeah, that's what happened. It was even as recently as September, it was a foregone conclusion that too was the number one pick in the draft. Yeah, so you leave the door crack for others to having performances that kind of change in way the opinion of scouts, and so sometimes you want to finish it all the way out so everyone knows exactly who you are and

where you deserved a stack. That is interesting you think about. Of course, Miami at the beginning of the year was probably the team that had the lowest or probably the highest chance to get that number one pair was gonna go number one to Miami, And now Joe Burrows going number one to Cincinnati and two one might go number

five to Miami. Absolutely, you never know, but definitely an interesting conversation because there's so many different ways you could go about entering the NFL and entering the draft, whether it's you want to sit out, you want to play all the way through, and the competitiveness definitely does play quite the factor. Now, wanted to ask you this question, and this comes from our boy Preston Dabs on Twitter.

Mister Dabs asked, he said, is Derek Brown so much better than Javon kin Law that he is worth the price of a trade up? And he put in parentheses say a first and a third to trade up to try and get and this is specifically for the Cowboys to try and trade up from seventeen to get Derek Brown out of Auburn six five, twenty five pound DT. I like Derek Brown, but I wouldn't trade up to

get him, not if Javin ken Law is there. I think when you make those moves to trade up, there has to be such a divide between the people at the top and the others that you know that there's a significant drop off. I don't know if there's a significant enough drop off between Derek Brown and Javin ken Law to prompt me to make that move. I think both are talented. I think Derek Brown is a very special player. But I think if us right, Javin McKinley

could could be the same thing. So I think it comes to looking at both guys, evaluating their physical trade and how they were using a production and right now, I would say that they're closer graded than the separation the big divide you have graded higher. Oh, I would say Derek Brown is a better prospect, a better player.

A couple other points too, is I don't know that that trade would get that done one and three to get you from seventeen to maybe as high as three, yeah, or I think I saw Daniel Jeremiah had him rated above Joe Burrow in terms of just a purer prospect. Yeah, so you're talking about certainly a top five pick, maybe top two or three. I don't think that trade gets it done. First of all. The other thing is, I

know the Cowboys need a D tackle. It's very rare to see a D tackle that's worth that type of resource. I mean, you think about even in Dominican Sue Nick Fairley. I can go down the list of amazing defensive tackles and those guys have you know, Sue has had an amazing career, But did he transform the Detroit Lions into

the franchise that they wanted to be when they drafted him. Yeah, I mean that's a very very interesting point when we think about the defensive tackle position, Like it's look the way teams are building the teams you have to have two pass rushes that most would tell you they would rather have someone on the outside and one person on the inside because into your pass rush really disrupts the

rhythm of the quarterback. However, it's hard to find guys that can be double digit set guys on the interior. And as much as I love guys that can stop the run and plug and do all those things, they don't impact the game like someone exactly get double digit secks. So unless it's a special pass rusher on the inside,

it's not really worth making that move. Which is ironic because like the one guy that's been able to do that as Aaron Donald, and he was drafted thirteenth, which is down toward the Cowboys range, right, And and that's the thing and the thing about like the Aaron Donald comparison is when you looked at Aaron Donald during his time at pitt high number of tacles for loss, high

numbers of sacks. When you saw him come down here, dominated the entire week, and so even with all of that dominance that he displayed, he still was taking more in the middle. It's the first kind of crazy in retrospect, like he was like his whole resume just screamed to draft me, and people were still like, I don't know, but you know the bigger thing, And I think the league has kind of changed a little bit since then.

The high thing, like it was hard for sure. I mean, we didn't have a lot of evidence of six one, six two into your players being able to dominate to the level where it merited a high pick. Now he has since kind of paid the way for other guys to do it. But until you're kind of the pioneer or the trailblazer, it's hard for us to get on board. I remember when we were here in twenty fourteen, a lot of people compared him to me because he's like

so short for an interior defensive line. I was like, I don't think he's that short, but well, you got to think about the different needs also for the Cowboys overall, I mean secondary. In Will mcclason yesterday, you can't have a good secondary without a good line. You can't have a good line without a good secondary. Right now, I think you have some pieces that you could go out and find a free agency the plug holes on the line, as opposed to the talent really needs to come from

the draft if you're looking secondary. With the amount of contracts the Cowboys have to pay out, they need to be hitting on multiple draft picks to compensate for that. Like, you need to be getting production from young, cheap players, and you're not doing that if you're trading picks away.

So it would have to be a heck of a deal for me to want to do something like It's an interesting point that you're bringing up, because once the money is doled out, and let's just imagine they're gonna pay the quarterback, and once you pay Dak Prescott and he gets like the big money, let's just say it's

in the thirty thirty to thirty range. U Now, the way that you build your team it has to become more on drafting, and so if you commit your resources to the offense, meaning high price quarterback, high price running back, and maybe high price receiver. Well, now on defense, the only people that you can pay is one pass rusher and then the other guys have to be draft and develop guys, guys that are home grown guys that you get on a cheap contract for four years, and then

maybe you can earmark a handful of things. But this year is very, very important because retooling the secondary and those things like you really got to knock it out depart when it comes to draft. Now you got to be able to hit on those draft picks. And around eighty million in cap space for the Cowboys heading into the free agency market and you're gonna have to look there. But this is another question to ask and kind of interesting to think about. But what is a surprise position?

This comes from Kyle on Twitter. What is a surprise position that you could see the Cowboys drafting at pick seventy? You know, it's funny because all the needs are kind of all over the place, Like ideally you talk about like safety being one d line. We've talked about cornerback to me is one that could be in place because you have to take a decision on whether I would take a young corner or resigned Byron Jones. Then on the other side is what are they doing at wide

receiver because wide receiver is the main one. Even if a Mary Cooper is resigned, does that mean that Ryndal Cop comes back? How does that work? I think wide receiver could be the position that you kind of see with Mike McCarthy coming in and being an offense I'm on the head coach and wanted to get the offense up and going. And if you commit big money to the quarterback, everything initially has to be on making sure that he's comfortable. I think wide receiver is a position

that should think about. It absolutely is, and that I mean every year I drive the train of like I I mean, you know, your defense doesn't have to be that great if you can score forty points a game. And this is such a loaded receiver class that I'm like, So I'm so intrigued by the idea of like a Henry Ruggs at seventeen. You know, I might depended in a mock draft. So yeah, it's fun to think about that. But at the same time, this receiver class is so

freaking it. It's so deep. So I've said on record that I don't know if I would spend the first round pick on a wide receiver. However, if I'm an take one, I want to get a polished one. I want to get it right now because I feel like the window for the Cowboys is kind of imminent, like, yeah, you have Zeke in the middle of a big deal. You have Dak that's going to be on the front end deal, Like you kind of want to get it going,

so I don't want to have time. And typically the round designations kind of speak to how long did it take for a player to develop. If I can get a first round player that can come right off the college field and onto the pro field and be able to dominate, I'm more to get one of those guys. If you were asking me for a surprise, okay, because like, no position on defense would shock me. Maybe maybe linebacker, I guess, because they'd have Layton vander esh and Jalen Smith.

Nobody on defense would shock me because they have needs all over the defense. If I was looking for a shock, i'd probably say offensive tackle because this is this is a pretty steep and stacked tackle class, right Like we're talking about five or six first round tackles. I'm looking at Jedrick Willis, I'm looking at Tristan Worf's who. Maybe he's a guard, but he played tackle in college. The

Georgia guy, what's his name, Andrew Thomas. Yeah, um, all of that makes sense for the Cowboys range Tyrn Smith. I mean, he's still a hell of a player. He's still he's still a player, but right now it's still a little more reputation than performance. Like he hasn't been the dominant player that we saw yea four or five years for sure. I think he's sore. As he's a very good tackle, he is not the like godlike tackle

that he was four or five years ago. The line as a whole is not the line that we saw four or five years ago. And so if if you're going to the kind of money that you've committed to Zeke and eventually Dak, that offensive line has to be a fortress. And so taking an offensive tackle, uh certainly could be one. The name that's kind of like getting the buzz when you talk to scouts. McCay Beckton, big

athletic guy. There's a video float on Twitter with him playing basketball where you can see his athleticism dunking in those things. He's going to be in that conversation where people are talking about, hey, whether he goes and so he may go higher than expect it. But at seventeen, there's going to be an offensive lineman that's sitting there that is a blue chip player. And remember years ago when they took Sam Martin, everyone was like what are

they doing? But it actually was a key building block for that team becoming a division champion. Was at sixteen. Yeah, oh, it's right in that range, which it's the age old debate is like, yeah, they need a safety, Yeah, they need a d tackle. Are you going to force that pick because you need it? Or you know last year or what they say it was a blinking light Like if he got a blinking light tackle, do you pull that trigger? I, like I said, I'd be pretty shocked

because Tyrant's got gas in the tank. They just signed Lyle Collins for the you know, for the long term. Yeah, you think about it. I mean they could use a swing tackle. This guy could kind of ease in with the idea of being Tyrant's successor. It's not the worst idea I've ever No, it's not. It's not the worst idea, and also like you would like to make those moves a year too early rather than a year too late.

If we talk about Tyron and some of the injury history, you would like to have that that successor already into building being developed to be the next one, as opposed to, Hey, he goes down and then the next year you have to go looking for an offensive tack. You never want to go to the grocery store hunger. And with that being said, do you talk about maybe the fact that it is a year too late in a couple of these areas. You want to make that pick a little

bit earlier for some areas. But I mean, if you look at safety and you look at maybe interior defensive lineman, it might be a year too late. Overall. Yeah, it might be a year too It might be a year too late. I think it depends on how you envisioned that guy playing the safety in this defense. What does it What does it mean? Do you need to have a dominant dude in the middle of your defense or can you get away with m kind of a pedestrian safety that's a guy that's more of a traffic cop.

When you think about the safeties in this class. Zavian McKinney is a guy that is more near the line of scrimmage, in the box, blixing and doing those things, not necessarily a true cover guy. And I think, like you go back to Cowboys, Lord, if you think about how Roy Williams played in his prime when he was down in the box, McKinney's kind of more in that, like Grant Delpit is more of your float, play over

the top, do things like that. The biggest issue that you have with Delpit over McKinney is delpest mistackles this year were significant and alarming and can you fix that? Yeah, you know, like those things because his tape from September and October is scary, not in a good way, No, no, no, it's scary, and so can can you fix the tackling issue? And a lot of debt will be on the coaches after they talk to him and after they get a field for him. Is it a want to thing or

a technique thing? Like That's what you have to determine because in the middle of the field you can't have guys missed out because those places certain touchdowns and going back to wide receivers just really quickly before we take our next break, Cowboys have had five first round picks that have been wide receivers over the course of their franchise. Their best pick probably Michael Irvin in nineteen eighty eight,

but their most recent pick was Dez Bryant. And those guys average pretty good players and two really good guys an average throughout those five picks six years with Dallas two hundred and seventy eight receptions on average and over forty six hundred yards. So, I mean, you're getting a good guy at seventeen if you're able to pick at least historically a reiver. Amari's gonna be here for twenty twenty one way or the other, whether it's by tag

or extension. Michael Gallup really came on last year. It looks like a young star. They can both play everywhere. If you're drafting a receiver at seventeen, he's going to be able to do everything too. I mean, Jerry Judy can do whatever you want him too. And Jerry Judy's the one that on the outside he may slide because like when you look at him compared to some of the other guys, the other guys look like freak shows in terms of their speed and the way they look.

But I'm telling you the best and most pro ready wide receiver is Jerry Judy. He can run all the routes. Haven't seen him since high school, having watched him at Alabama. Like, he's very, very unique in his ability to kind of get in and out of breaks, and so he followed behind Amari Cooper. The coaches there use a similar blueprint in terms of getting him ready. I think he is a ready made guy that you can drop into any offense and he can have all kinds of success if

he's sitting there. You talk about the blinking light, Yeah, he's the blinking light that you have to proceed through, which I mean, it's not like a huge need. But if you told me they wound up with that, I'd be I'm sure Dak Prescott would be happy, pretty excited about one guy that kind of stuck out to me as a late round guy here in the Senior Bowl, Antonio Ganey Golden from Liberty. He looked, he looked pretty good.

So maybe a guy that the Cowboys could look at round three, round four, if he's there at that point there, Like I we already said it, but like there's gonna be good receivers on the board, like all through this. So this this the great thing about this draft is like, I think you can take two. I don't think you're you're limited to say, oh, we're gonna feel the need

with one. I think you can double up. And if you go back and you look at Mike McCarthy's history in Green Bay, even though he wasn't in control of the draft, they always would double up and take some of those late round guys and developed him. And the one thing that he is really good at is taking guys day two and lore and being able to get them on the field. That was kind of the model in Green Bay when he was there. I think he

kind of understands how to fit those guys into the offense. Yeah, and definitely interesting to look at as a surprise first round pick at seventeen. So that's gonna do it for Twitter on the twenty here from Mobile. When we come back, we'll wrap things up. We're gonna keep talking with Bucky Brooks and get you ready for the final day of the Senior Bowl here from Alabama. We'll be back at a moment here on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. Eighteen sixty five.

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Restrictions apply. Find a participating eyecare professional by visiting slor usa dot com. See more, Do more. So you're shopping, and that's when you see it. I old twenty three Doctor Pepper stack from top to bottom as far as the eye can see. The phrase two going to be true comes to mind. Yet there it is a rich, delicious doctor Pepper paradise. Wait, did did that can of doctor Pepper just open itself for you? They all are

as if to say, so nice to treat you. And even though it feels weird to talk to we, can you pick one up and say, it's so nice to be treated doctor Pepper, so nice to treat you. This is the dasy dot com Draft Show, and no your hosts David Hellman and Kyle Yeoman's final segment here from Mobile Alabama. The twenty twenty Reese's Senior Bowl of Allas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show talking with Bucky Brooks, former

NFL player and NFL scout from the NFL Network. And then we've got David Hellman and myself, Kyle Yeoman's and guys. We've we've talked about some of these Twitter questions. We've talked about the Cowboys needs and some of the guys that stuck out to us in those needs for the Senior Bowl. But Bucky, I want to go back to something that maybe doesn't relate directly to the Senior Bowl. However, you can fill some of those needs with the players

that are involved here. But you've come up with a blueprint, and in this blueprints it surrounds how to build a successful and championship franchise in the NFL. First, just kind of explain this blueprint in what it consists of. So when you think about building a championship roster, when you guys talk to Will McClay, they'll talk about their scouting system. A lot of times, the top guys on the board

are called blues, blue chip players or whatever. So most championship teams are comprised of ten to twelve blue chip players, guys that rank within the top five top ten in the league. At their position, and so as you're building an ideal roster, you need to have a nice cord that has about twelve of those guys in there in those positions. You're talking about a quarterback, three offensive playmakers.

They can be running backs, tied in white receivers, any combination of three, three solid offensive linemen that play at a high level. You need two pass rushers, and you need three defensive playmakers, whether it's linebackers, safeties, corners, you need a combination of three. If you have those twelve players on your roster, you have an opportunity to go. And we think about this year's Super Bowl when we tallied up the San Francisco forty nine US. San Francisco

had like fifteen dudes. They got, they got more than they had, They had enough players. I mean, the cup ran over. And then even when you look at like some of those teams, like Kansas City is able to go, but they don't quite have everything, but the quarterback is so good that it makes up for it. So it's ideal to have twelve, but you can get away with

like ten or eleven. But man, if you get twelve, it pretty much guarantees that you can be in the final four and you can have a chance to play in the in the final Well, let's piece this together for the Cowboys. Yeah, raises the question about how far away the Cowboys. Let's see exactly how far the Cowboys are from from having that that blueprint kind of stand out. So quarterback, would we consider Dak Prescott that guy? Yeah, because I think I think you can put him in

that mix. I think he's played at a high level um to be able to do it. It doesn't necessarily mean when we're making that blueprint that the quarterback has to necessarily carry the squad, right, but when he has the things around him, can he play at a high level. We've seen him do that. Okay, So Ezekiel Elliott, offensive playmaker, Chang. Yeah, you've got Amari Cooper, Chack Chang. Now who would be the third Would it be a Randall Cob, Michael Gallup.

I'm not gonna throw Jason Witten's name in there, not not anymore, not anymore anymore. So that would be the thing. Can Michael Gallup be a guy that can be the consider third weapon or do they need to go out and get another tight end or another playmaker? But somewhere there. I think you could say that maybe I love that is lacking. I love that you used consistency, because I mean Gallup had an eleven hundred yards season. He really, I mean he came on, but was not that consistent playmaker.

He left plays on the field, notably against Philadelphia that might have gotten the Cowboys into the playoffs. Well, he wasn't a one B to Amar's one end on as enough basis two and that's what you need. So if you think about Zeke being the guy that you can count, obviously he played to that level. But now your two weapons of Maria Cooper has to play at that level consistently, and then you have to have someone else because typically if they take a Mariy Cooper where you want to

be able to know that the other guy can do damage. Which, to answer your question, yes, they need to find a tight end. And I like during the break I realized, you know, we didn't really talk about that as an option at seventeen, probably because there isn't one. It is not it's not very top heavy tight end class. Right, There isn't a top heavy, but a thing once you get into the second round, there's some intriguing options. And um, look,

Harrison Bryan, we've really talked about him. I talked about down here, the Dayton tight end. Yes he is. He is catching some eyes for anc has certainly come in and he's done some really good thing. Adam Troutman out of Dayton. If you're listening on good luck finding his tape. He played it. He played it Dayton. But ht no. But like and you know, a lot like Kyle Dugger, who we also talked about last night, you know, coming from a program like I mean, I know Dayton basketball,

I didn't know they had a football program. And but he he has looked like he belongs out here. He does definitely doesn't look like a fish out of wall. He doesn't look like a fish out of wood. And when you talk to some people, there's some people that believe he might be the best one when it all comes down to it at the end of the process, that Adam Troutman may be the first tight end. So look, he's certainly done himself well by performing as the senior Bob.

But yeah, there's some tight ends. I don't know if there's one. Where we talked about the seventeen second round, you do it, but regardless, it has to be a priority, like finding a tight end has to be a priority. And we don't know what's gonna happen with Whitton. Maybe he comes back. I kind of doubt it, but I just keep saying, like, even if he does, they gotta they gotta address the future. You talk about doing it a year two early, verse too late. It's been too

late for a couple of years. Yeah. Well, and you made the point about Troutman being a fish out of water, no pun intended, But that's good. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, Steven Sullivan from Elis, you looked good this week. I think Bryson Hopkins is a solid option. He needs to pick up the blocking of Sullivan, which again we talk about like how things are going to change under Mike McCarthy. Sullivan's a big slot like he I mean, it's sure, it's it's not really accurate to

even call him a tight end. Forty five and he's got massive hand. That's like an instant no for the Jason Garrett Cowboys, right, But maybe Mike McCarthy sees differently. I mean, you know, they had Jimmy Graham for the longest time, like they don't always ask they're tight end to do as much of that well rounded stuff. So I'm intrigued by the options that might be available to them because of this change and coaching staff. Yeah, they've

they've done a few different things. When he was in Green Bay, at one point they had not only Jimmy Graham, but they had Lance Kendricks. Yeah, you know, then they had someone else who could be the traditional blocking tight end. I think what you want to do is you want to be able to have options so you can balance

up the defense and attack them and very different ways. Well, the point that I was making was even with some of the guys that are at the Senior Bowls, some of the guys that are here in Mobile, there are late round tight end options. Sure it doesn't have to be at seventeen, but you can find a playmaker and find one of those gems that could end up being

a starting tight end this year or in the future. Yeah, I think that's the big thing I think, and talking about the formula, like the Cowboys certainly need to address, like finding one other piece to the puzzle when it comes to the perimeter. Can they find someone that can be a difference maker impact player. Imagine if they had a guy that could impact the game, like Philadelphia Zach Ert, someone in the middle decking each other where you you have to begin to think about can we double team him.

That's how you kind of have to put that standard. We need guys that demand a double team because if you get that to mean, someone else is going to benefit. When you look at the two teams in the Super Bowl, George Kittle, Travis Kells sretty good players, pretty solid tight end, neither one of which was the first round pick. I'll have you, I'll remind you so like that, Yeah, let's stick with the offense. Three offensive lineman Lyle Collins is

in the mix. Now where do we put the rest of the offensive line because in the past it was check mark, Yeah, Smith, check Mark Frederick, check mark all over that offensive line. I'm interested for your you know, I want to see what you have to think. We're we're in the bubble, like we're we're yeah exactly, which I still think of the I mean I still think of Tyron Smith, Travis Frederick, and Zach Martin. Like that's check marks for me. Like I think I think Martin

would be a check mark. Are I think I think Martin and Frederick are more check Marston Tyrone Smith at the point. Okay, I worry about Tyrone Smith a little bit in terms of like the durability and injury history, and there have been some games where he just hasn't looked the same and obviously injuries do that. Um, I still believe obviously we still have cited three offensive lineman. The offensive line is good. It wasn't. It's not as

great as it once was. I think we get um kind of lured into thinking that the offensive line is what it was two or three years ago, and it's just not that. And so Dad has kind of impacted the ability to kind of dominate on offense. So what would we do, We would say, Martin, I still I think it's still still I think that so offensive line taking care of quarterbacks, taking care of an offensive three

offensive playmakers. Tight end is probably the one spot on when he won one other spot, and you need Michael Gallup to continue to build. Yeah, so offense, we've got one player to look at in terms of filling those draft needs. Now, let's get to the defense out a little bit of a different story. Starting with the pass rush, We've got d Law in the Pass Rush. Where else

do we go here? I don't know, man, because it's kind of hard to count on Robert Quinn being a guy that can do it, Like he's he's an older guy. If anything, he's he's a descending player, like he's not going to play science him as well. Yeah. So so then as you looking at their front, like who else, um are guys that you scare? Who else is available to to think about? That's that's you're You're done. I mean, I mean, you know, no shade intended to Malie Collins,

He's been fine, He's deaf. I mean, he's not what you're describing. And on top of that, he doesn't have a contract right now anyway. Yeah. So, and I mean when you get through that, and that's I mean, that's the problem is right now it's DeMarcus Lawrence and Tumbleweeds. Yeah and so and so so Now where does that

where does that guy come from? So now when we're thinking about retooling and redoing this thing, I mean, do they even go all the way outside and find an edge player because we kind of talked about interior players when we talked about uh Ken Law and Derek Brown and all those guys. But is there an edge player that can come in and give them what they want, that that can give them to kind of sack production double digit sacks off the edge that can play You

would know, you would know better than me. But like my, you know, diving into this draft class, I'm not convinced the value is there, at least not in the first round. Yeah. No, it's tough. So you're talking about Ajum being in that consideration, but like, I don't know, like seventeen, he can kind of be there. Uh, but I don't And and I'm

not trying to dog the guy. He doesn't strike me as like that right end that's just gonna zip around And he's kind yeah, yeah, he's kind of like he's kind of what I call I think I've wrote done in my nose. He's a worker bee, you know what I'm saying. Like, he's a worker bee. He plays hard, he kind of gives you some production. Maybe he can give you up to ten sex, but I don't think he's the guy that's going to give you look ten

twelve consistently. Um, there's Calavan chasing from LSU. Who's who's interesting? I wonder how light he is compared to what they would want on the edges, because he's kind of like you're talking about twenty five fifty pounds, Like, are you moving around? He has speed, he has first step quickness, he has all that stuff where he can play off games and stunts. But can he give you that consist in production off the edge. He's intriguing. I just don't know until we kind of get a feel for what

Mike Nolan wants on defense. That's it's hard to plug him intore. I went to LSU, so I think the world of Caleban. But if the Cowboys are interested in him, that says something very specific to me, because like he really strikes you as more of a three four guy, yeah, and as as opposed to this big down lineman that's

going to do that type of work. And if the Cowboys are interested in him, I just think it sends a signal about what they might be looking for for the future of their full scale shift in terms of what they're looking looking for whatever. There's a kid that is another classman that came out, Curtis Weaver from Boise State. But once again we talked about these are these edge rushers that are these three four types to kind of stand up sixty three twenty sixty five pounds. He broke

the Mountain West record in sacks. He had thirty four in a three year career. Cowboys love their boysy guys. Yeah, excellent first step, quickness, does a great job getting off to his and you're right, like because they've had success Tymark Crawford and some of the other guys like those guys have come from there and play with LVEE. So he certainly is a guy that could be in that conversation. But I do wonder and two we kind of get a true feel for what they want to do on

the defensive side. It's gonna make it hard. And then I wanted to pull up the kid from Penn State. Well, I'm talking about Weaver had thirteen and a half sacks's junior season and to go along with the thirty four that he had in his first three years or three

years starter at Boise State. I mean, he's got a got quite a bit the resume to work with that that that is definitely a name though, Man, I don't want to Jader Grossmato, Yeah, Jada Grossmatos, And I think I think the thing with him, like he's long ranging, I wrote in my nose he kind of reminds me of Jason Pierre Paul. Like Jason Pierre Paul when he first came out of South Florida, he was long, he was still trying to figure it out. But he has

some traits that are intriguing. His first dep quitting is his length. His ability to play with his hands. Uh, could be intriguing. But once again, until we get a real feel for what Mike Nolan and those guys want to take and let the cat out the bag, then we can begin to project. Okay, here's where these guys fit, and here's where they fit on the board where the Cowboys can get them. Would you be selling high on both of those guys? I mean it kind of seems

like the consensus has been kind of back in first round. Yeah, so I think back in first round. So then what you have to do is you have to make a decision if you're Cowboys. Okay, I'm sitting there seventeen, how much do we love the guy? Do we want to get cute and play around the board and drop down into the twenties where people to talk about the value is right? Or do we just like him and we're just gonna roll the dice whether the outside noise says

that he's a good fit for us and not. That's interesting to look at it because there is an option at seventeen to trade back and stay within the first round. And if you're able to stay within the first round, you could pick up a second or that's a round pick.

And with the amount of options and holes that the Cowboys need to fill on defense, well then and so when you think about the trade back scenario, what you want to do is you want to envision, Okay, if we move back into the twenties, are there multiple players that we would take at twenty five or at twenty seven. And so we talked about the various needs. So we talked about safety, We talked about wide receiver. We've talked

about somewhere along the defensive front. As we know, if they get stuck there a million wide receiver, so they always could fall back into take a wide receiver. If we really look at where the safeties will be graded, the safeties will probably come in and the twenties where the grades are all said and done. So I think there are multiple scenarios where the Cowboys could honestly look

and say, look at seventeen, we could fall back. Let's not fall all the way out the first round, but let's fall back and we will get a player that we like, and we may also get an additional two or three in terms of day two picks, where we can find another player like the tied end, like another corner or something that can kind of help us do what we want to do. Man's that's fun to think about the trade scenarios. Give me, give me all the pass.

Lets try and load up a little bit here. So we we've determined that we have the one pass rushing piece, yeah, and we need an yeah, preferably two more. Honestly, yeah, you would like to have two more. But let's go with three playmakers on defense to round out this this blueprint for a championship team. Three players on defense. Who do we got? Now? Who you could check that off? Well? I think the linebackers. I think it has to be

Smith and LVU. Like obviously Lu you worry about the net concern and can come back if he comes back, I mean, he proved in this rookie season, like when when he and Smith were playing at a high level, like Dallas's defense was dominant. And so those are the two playmakers that I would check in. I don't know who that guy is in the back end. Like for all of the things people would talk about Byron Jones, I don't know if he played to that level where you could put him in that conversation as like a

top five quest. I would argue this year that he did not. You know, and then as safety, we we we've talked about the struggles at safety, and so it tells you that one other piece is needed, one of the secondary piece is needed, and whether that's at corner, whether that's at safety, UM, it has to be addressed for this team to kind of complete it. It's an

interesting conversation. I feel, I feel dumb saying, and Jalen Smith is at the Pro Bowl right now, but I think most people would agree he took a step back in his second season as a starter. Yeah, well third technically, but and it sounds weird to say, but I think if Mike Nolan can get and he's a linebacker specialist, if he can get a more consistent level of play out of him. The word playmaker's funny for Byron because

I think he's a great corner. He does not make plays, and yeah, and their interception, and there's something too that like it depends on what you really want at the position. He's a Catholic like great athlete, great size, great speed, great leaping ability. But then ball skills come into it um as you know, because you guys kind of frowned upon the low number of turnovers that have he kind of existed of late. The teams they win, they win

to turnover about him. They dominate turnovers. And now there's some randomness to creating turnovers. But one thing that typically happens, if you want to create turnovers, you have to get guys who have a proven trek record of snagging the ball all in the back end. So when you go and you look at their college stats, do they have double digit interceptions, do they have multiple seasons of significant

number of interceptions? Do they have the guys that have baseball in their background so they can judge balls, and then the total team speed. Faster teams typically produce takeaways because they run to the ball. When you get a number of hats on the ball, the ball tends to fall out and then people pick it up and so turnovers will be an emphasis, and I know they have to find the right kind of players that can create those.

So looking at the blueprint from Bucky Brooks himself, what are the needs tight end, defensive line, secondary, no big surprise, safety, safety, cornerback, tight end, d tackle, defensive end. Yeah, let's get that. Let's do that trade back and make this thing easier on ourselves. Let's just cover all of our bases. But Bucky, we do want to thank you so much for joining us. It's been a ton of fun talking some draft with you. We look forward to speaking with you in the future

as well. Thank you so much over the course of the draft process. Good luck and safe travels back to the West Coast. It'll be fun talking to you, man. That was good. It was fun. It was fun chopping out what you guys about the Cowboys and Senior Bowl in the draft. Yeah. Man, And we'll be back with Jeff Cavanaugh and Kevin Turner next week Thursday at eleven o'clock. We'll dive into what we saw during the Senior Bowl. We're also going to start diving into some of the

guys who were not here in Mobile, Alabama. As we continue to lead you up to the twenty twenty NFL Draft to start and look ahead to the combine, which is kind of interesting as well. I mean the fact that the combine is right around the corner butt for Bucky Brooks, for Dave Hellman and the rest of our crew. Here from Mobile, Alabama, I'm Kyle Yeoman, signing off for the Draft Show. We'll see you next week here on

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