Draft Show: Better Know A QB

Somebody is always gonna think your trash worse from Liberty quarterback Malik Willis, that is that is what is on my mind here day two of the NFL Combine, Day two of the Draft Show. Welcome in, everybody. I am Dave Hellman, your host. I am joined once again by Kyle Yeoman's and the incomparable Dane Brugler from the Athletic Fellow Us. You're not trash, somebody thinks I am. Though that's the beauty of it. Somewhere there's always somebody out there.

No one at this table thinks that. I appreciate that. I agree with that. Somebody at home listening to this is like, you know what, Dave, You're right, absolutely, Tad oh oh Man. You don't have to jump right in don't. Don't look at that. But yeah, see, but nobody thinks about day that way. There's no way. Yeah, there's there's some there's somebody. There's plenty for me, I know that. But somebody back at Mount Union is just like that Brugler guy. Yeah, oh yeah, for sure we will name names.

They exist. That got way off the rails, way faster than I meant to. But so two thoughts. All right, we're once again here. I mean, you don't need me to set the stage, but I will. We're at the Indianapolis Convention Center again. The combine is slowly but surely sort of cranking into life. That's the frustration of this is like, as the combine has become a bigger and bigger deal, they've actually pushed the workouts into the weekend and as a result, we're here just we're just desperate

to see some sort of anything on field activity. In lieu of that, we did we did start to talk to prospects today. The wide receivers talk to the media, the quarterbacks talk to the media. Malik Willis with my favorite quote of the year to this point. I think it's very wise from a guy that is going to have his game picked apart for the next three months until he's finally drafted. I guess two months at this point.

But yeah, so as we sort of sit here and wait for more action to develop, what do you make of of what we saw today? And we can start with the quarterbacks if y'all want to. Again, the most enigmatic class I can remember in a long time. Yeah, I don't. I don't know that there was anything groundbreaking from these quarterbacks today. You know, Kenny Pickett from Pitt, unsurprisingly was the most polished I thought in terms of the interviews and commanding the room and that type of thing.

You know, fifth year senior, he's been around sound, he knows the drill, very comfortable with everything. But and that's not to say these other quarterbacks weren't. I thought they handled themselves. Well. Uh. You know, I give Carson Strong a lot of credit for being as upfront as he is about the knee things like that. You know, he doesn't hide from it, and that's something that I respect him for. That now that that could end up affecting where he's drafted, but um, you know, I give him

credit for being you know, very open about it. You know, Desmond Ritter all these quarterbacks, I thought they did well. Nothing really stood out to me anything for you. I'm kind of along the same lines Carson Strong and the way that the knee has kind of been a red flag on him throughout this draft process. He's one of those guys, depending on who you talk to, is one of those mid range quarterbacks that could take a jump whether or not he's he's healthy and what the medicals

end up showing throughout the week here in Indianapolis. And like you said, he was upfront. He said it. He said, my knee's not gonna fall off. I'm good to go. I've been cleared. I'm gonna do all the testing I'm gonna go through all of this throughout the week in order to show that I am good to go. He played without a brace in Mobile during the Senior Bowl. He thought that was a big step moving into what is now the draft process. And he feels like he's

put it out there. And it's funny you mentioned the Malik Willis quote about everybody thinks you're trash. He had another one that I thought was really funny. Somebody, sorry, not everybody. You're right, I'm I'm speaking from my fall

in love with that young man. I'm starting. Yeah, I think he's a great guy, and I have a past relationship just from the play by play side of things with Malik and I I've liked him from a couple of years ago at that point, and uh, he said another thing later on, somebody asked him if he's the top quarterback in the draft. He goes, I certainly think I'm the top quarterback in the draft, but I'm not the guy's making the decisions, and I hate that for me.

He was. He was very upfright. He's like, I hate that for myself, the fact that I'm not the one making the decisions. But I think it's a very heady quarterback class. And you saw today with the media interviews, there's a lot of smarts, a lot of football IQ amongst this class. It's due the on field traits match

the IQ. I think you're gonna have a lot of smart guys in the class, but maybe they're just not the athletic freak shows that you've seen and maybe some of the classes of old Dan, You're a perfect person to ask about this because I think something that jumped out to me. Kenny Pickett talked about talking to Peyton Manning about going back to school obviously paid off tremendously for him, acc Player of the Year, Heisman candidate, and played his way into the first round of the draft. Yeah.

I'll be very honest, I don't remember that really even being a conversation, like ironically reminds me of Joe Burrow a little bit because it go back to twenty eighteen. We were thinking about Joe as like maybe like a third round pick or worse, and played his way to number one overall. What was your opinion of Kenny Pickett before he came back for twenty twenty one. I liked him quite a bit. I had a relatively speaking, I

thought he was, you know, fourth fifth round. I thought he was a guy that's gonna be a career backup in the league. So I did like him. But to see this type of improvement for him as a senior and I talked. I spent some time with his offensive coordinator, Mark Whipple um during the season to get a better sense for Okay, what changed, what's different about Kenny Pickett this year? And Mark Whipple who who spend some time in the NFL as a quarterback coach, so he's got

some interesting experience there. He basically just boiled it down to that you can't put any type of timeline on terms of experience, Like just having that extra year gave just things started to click for him in terms of seeing things quicker, understanding what the defense is trying to do. I thought the offensive line played much better for Pitt this year, so he had a little bit of extra time to operate from the pocket. I think, you know brought up Joe Burrow in the difference that he made

from his junior year to his senior year. Kenny Pickett it not is drastic, but similar in terms of the improvements that he made. You just can't put a price on experience and what that means, especially for a quarterback, because the more you see, the quicker you can eliminate things, the quicker you understand where you need to go with the football. And I think with Kenny Pickett, things really clicked for him. Now, what's his ceiling as a player,

That's the big question. I think he has clearly the highest floor of any draft or any quarterback in this draft. But is he the type of guy that can lead you to the playoffs? Is he the type of guy that can lead you to, you know, and beyond Super Bowl. I don't know. And I just find it very hard to have any conviction in any of these quarterbacks this year in terms of them ever becoming a top fifteen

quarterback in the NFL. And if you're going to draft a quarterback in the first round, you better believe that, you know, at some point during his rookie contract he will become a top fifteen quarterback in the NFL. And I just don't know how you could have any confidence in these guys and say that. And so if I'm the Cowboys, I'm feeling pretty darn good that I've got Dak Prescott in my quarterback. This is not the not the offseason to need a quarterback, it really is. It's

a blessing in the guys. We were talking to some of the reporters around the league earlier about that as well. It's like, oh, this is nice. We're getting to listen to the quarterbacks. But we don't necessarily have to scout these quarterbacks as much as we would on a normal occasion. It's been that way, of course, for quite some time. But a lot of people would look at Kinney Picket and of course he's benefiting from a weaker quarterback class.

But I'm looking at my list from last year. I had him as a top ten quarterback before I knew he was going to go back to college. So he's always been at the top of that list. I'm sure it's probably been that way. You said you liked him before he elected to return as well, So he has some of those traits that a starting quarterback in the NFL could certainly have. It goes back to what I was saying earlier. He's a smart player. He has the confidence,

he has the experience. Does he have the physical traits to match with all of that that can allow him to have the top fifteen caliber career by the time he's done with the rookie deal. Because I agree with Dane and wholeheartedly, I don't see a quarterba back in this draft. Maybe with the exception, and if there's two exceptions, it would be pick it. It would probably be Malik Willis. That can maybe be in that conversation, but sure, that's fine.

I would throw him maybe on the edge there. I like Willis and pick it better in my opinion, but I would still throw at least I'll just to say, because he's my third, I'll throw three quarterbacks in there, and even then I still think they're borderline top fifteen at best. So it does provide for an interesting thought process with a premium position being so low throughout the

entire draft class. That is absolutely terrifying when you think about it, because, like the nature of the position, two or three of these guys will get drafted in the first round, right, and you're telling me that you have no confidence that any of them can be in the upper echelon starting quarterback. Yeah, and that's me, you know what, I'm not sure of course, but but just but I think most somebody with you. Yeah, I think it speaks

to you know, all the different ice cream flavors. You know, it's you're gonna teams are gonna look at these quarterbacks differently and what they offer. One team will look at Kenny Pickett and say, you know what, he's gonna help us compete. He's gonna help us compete for eight, nine, ten wins every single year, and we'll take that compared to what we have right now. While another team will look at that and say, I don't know that's quite

good enough for us. You know, you look at this team like the Steelers who have had a Hall of Fame caliber quarterback for how many years? Now? Is Kenny Picktt good enough for what they would want to upgrade the quarterback position or do they think pick It is good enough? So each each team that needs a quarterback is gonna look at this class differently. Not everyone's gonna be on on board with waiting for Malik will because he Malik Willis really shouldn't see the NFL field as

a rookie. He's just not ready, or team's gonna be ready to let them sit and wait. A lot of teams won't be that patient, other teams might be. So it's teams are gonna look at these quarterbacks differently and have wildly different opinions, just like a lot of us. Do you have a class in the past that you could compare this quarterback group too, that that where it's kind of that same sort of mentality. Yeah, it was the worst quarterback class that I've ever covered was twenty thirteen.

That was the EJ Manual. You know, you know he was a first round bus but it's not his fault. He shouldn't have been taken in the first round to begin with. But that's Matt Barkley, Ryan Nass of Gino Smith and those are, like, you know, the top quarterbacks that year. So this quarterback class is better than that to step up from that. But man, does it look like a huge step down compared to what we saw last year with five quarterbacks in the top fifteen. Uh

you know a guy like Trevor Lawrence and everything he offers. Uh, you know, Zach Wilson and Justin Fields and Trey Lance and so yeah, it's just a it's a tough quarterback class to really get excited about. But you know what, quarterback desperation is a real thing throughout this league. And that's why I'm putting the over under at ten when we see the first quarterback drafted. Yeah, which and that you know you can you can roll your eyes up all all you want about it if you're a cowboy fan.

I'm still fascinated by this quarterback conversation because I'm obsessed with pushing players down the board. You want as many as you can, and so, okay, so you put it at ten like over under ten. And we did this exercise on a show a few weeks ago where I basically I forced the guys to give me their players that they feel like our locks to go before the Cowboys pick, Like you don't even think about it. And I think we we came up with two. I think

we didn't name the quarterbacks right too? Wow? Okay, that's the number we came up with, wasn't it with two players? Two? Two quarters? Yes? Sorry? Yeah, I think I think the final players I thought. I was like, there's probably ten names we put out. I think the final list of players was twelve if I remember, but it was, but I think it was ten with two quarterbacks? Is the point?

And so how do you feel about that? And if you had to guess, can you And I know you can't, but I'm asking you anyway, can you envision landing spots for some of these guys? And if so, how many? Yeah. I think That's why I put the over under at ten is because I think when you look at the team's picking the first nine picks, you've got Carolina at six, Denver at nine, two possible spots for a quarterback, and then Washington at eleven. Washington has been, you know, trying

to figure out the quarterback position for a lot of years. Now, what do they feel good enough at one of these quarterbacks to go that direction at eleven. Maybe I think that's maybe the most likely spot where we see a quarterback off the board. But I think there's a good chance we only see one quarterback in the top twenty three picks. I really do. I don't. I don't know that. You know, maybe we do. You know, the Steelers obviously that's the direction they could go if they love one

of these one of these quarterbacks. But so let's just okay, let's plan it out. We've got um Let's just say the first quarterback comes off the board at eleven. Okay, that's Washington, Yep. Let's say they go Kenny Pickin. Let's say they go the high floor. They figure he's an upgrade over what we have right now. You know, we'll ll die some that. Uh. Let's say next quarterback Steelers Malik Willis. Uh, because I don't, I don't know that. You know, the Saints are interesting spot with you know,

new coaching staff. Uh, you know what, Jameis Winson's a free agent. What what direction do they go with a with really really a brand new, you know, kind of face to that that what they are as an identity as a team. Are they really going to throw a first round pick at a at a quarterback this year? It's possible, but I don't know that they will. Pittsburgh's interesting. I don't think Philadelphia goes quarterback. Um So, New Orleans or the or the Steelers look like the next likely

bet for a quarterback. And let's say it's Malik Willis um So, I guess saying two quarterbacks off the board in the first twenty three picks. I think that's a fair uh projection at this point. That still doesn't make me feel any better. That makes me feel like eleven is most likely, and even that's not a lock sure for it to be a quarterback. And then I was thinking the same thing New Orleans. It depends on whether

or not they want Jamis Instant back in. That's that locker room, because I don't think they would go back through the Taysom Hill experiment again. Might Payton not there? I think that I think we can probably call it. I think we can call that a day. I agree,

and so that's probably just as likely as Pittsburgh. But either neither one of those are really intriguing to pick before twenty three See I disagree, Just be like, you know how every like you know how you like kind of fall in love with an idea during you falling in love with an idea. I love the idea of Pittsburgh taking a quarterback, and preferably Willis for me. Dan just said probably shouldn't play. The Steelers have the foundation

to where he doesn't need to play. I'm not saying Mason Rudolph is good and Dwayne Haskins certainly not for that matter, but like they have guys in house that can handle it. They've got a nasty defense, like they got to the playoffs this year with Ben Roethlisberger just shot putting the ball, took a running back at twenty four last year, So right, I think they have the opportunity.

The bigger question might beat you. They have to move up up to get their quarterback and stay put at twenty and you know say, yeah, we feel good our guy will be there. Do they risk that? Do they feel like they need to go up and get them? Um? You know we've seen the Steelers when they really want a player, they will go up again with Troy Paulamalu Devins, We've seen them do it before. So Uh. That to me, that might be the bigger question with the Steelers and

their quarterback target in this draft. They don't have a ton of draft capital. They've got a first, second, third, and a fourth comp and then they don't pick again until the seventh. So if they're gonna do it, they're gonna have to use their future and wage their future

against it. Yeah, And I think it's also worth noting that I don't know that it's going to cost as much as year to trade up because teams are gonna be so willing to get out of there, you know, like if if all you're offering is um, you know. So like when the when the Steelers we've love to get Devin Bush, I think they only gave up a second round pick. I think that's all it took, is you know, obviously they swapped first rounds and then an

extra an extra two. In this year's draft to move up seven eight spots, it might only take a third to get to do it. When in past drafts to go up and get a quarterback, it takes a lot, But in this draft, where teams are gonna be more willing to get out of there pick up because we know the strength of this draft is second, third round. Even in the fourth round, where you're gonna get quality depth, you might be okay with moving back seven eight spots

in the first round. Still feel like you're gonna get a good player and who you want while picking up a third round pick. I like that idea. Let me ask you this, and anytime you pick in the back half, you're always going to get questions about trading up. Just people are always going to do and that's fine, I

get it. It's intriguing. Do you think do you think a team like the Cowboys would be more likely to trade up because it could be cheaper this year, or more likely to not do that because you look at it and say, well, who are we going up for? If you're thinking that's an interesting conversation? Is no question. If you're trading up in this draft, you better love that person. I mean, you better be scared out of your wits that he's not going to make it to

you and have that type of conviction about him. And is there that type of player like that in this draft and the Cowboys in this draft. It's so fascinating because we'll see what happens the next you know, month, with wide receiver. You know what happens at tight end? What happened several of these key positions that we know our potential needs on this roster that hopefully we have a better idea a month, month and a half of

what how they have planned to attack that position moving forward. Um. You know, because if one of these receivers that they just fall in love with and they see a guy that hey can be the difference maker, go get him. Got the twinkle in his well, No, I'm hey, Dane already brought up my failed love affair with a big bodied sec West receiver. I'm just get Trailing Burns. Look, I already was developing a draft crush on Trailing Burke's.

But when I found out that he hunts boars with a knife, yea, if you didn't, Kyle, you told me so, tell tell the listeners. Yeah, he doesn't just hunt boars or hogs. H He goes, was a knife hunts them so and he said, it's go go look at the interview. It's online, it's somewhere. He doesn't shoot them from afar. He liked combat. Yeah, he like tries to deceive it and then sneak up on it and just put it in a chokehold ultimately, and and I mean it's pretty

pretty primal. He grew up in terrifying, you know, just central Arkansas. Just that's that's that's what they did. I think the Jones family is big into boar hunting, so I like maybe it's connection and for all the next for all of the you know, people love to make a big deal about the Jones family going to Arkansas, like Felix Jones is the only bad pick they've ever

spent on that programs. I'm just saying, which as long as we're doing this, we'll go to break in a minute, because we do have a lot of Twitter questions to get too. But he's your wide receiver too, Yes, what what makes him so? I think when you talk about six two and a half sixty three two hundred twenty five pounds, um, guys that are that size and move like that, because he's gonna run high, four four slow, four fives um. Yes, he sees a pretty good conference right.

I've heard that nobody in the SEC had more explosive place more plays of twenty plus yards than him last year at twenty twenty one. So he is a big play igniter. He's got the speed to run away from guys. He's gonna separate down the field. Not the most refined receiver, but uh, you know, just getting him the ball, get the ball in his hands and let him let him

do stuff physically, He's impressive. I've been calling him a before the Deebo Samuel's comps became like all the rage over the last everybody NFL right now in October, I was calling this guy the linebacker size Deebo Samuel UM and so I think that's what he is. You just find ways to get him the ball. And this morning during his interview, he said that he mimics. He used the word mimic, mimics his game after Deebo Samuel Um. So that physicality, that toughness, the play strength, I think

he brings a lot out of that. Plus he's a blazer. He can run really fast at six three twenty five to twenty eight. So the if I'm in a war room and I need to sell trailing Burkes to the rest of the room, it's not gonna be hard. If you have to sell it nobody else is watching tape, would be my guess. Yeah, all right, I think we did a pretty good job, considering still nothing has happened at the NFL Combine. Now I want to trade up and get in front of Philadelphia and go get Tyler Linderbaum.

Dane talked me into it. I'm miss, I'm captain. Trade up? Now, you want to trade up to the guy? I want to go get get me in front of Philadelphia. Let's let's make a deal with the Browns at thirteen. Let's figure it out. I've got Cleveland across the table. I'm gonna make a call. I haven't all right. Well, now we'll save that. We can do this. We can do this. We can do this. In the third segment, what happens until then, we've got Twitter questions. We will do that

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talk xs and os with me. Mickey Spagnola, the official travel partner of the Dallas Cowboys, will take care of all your travel needs. Visit Cowboys travel dot com is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Welcome back to the Draft Show. It is Wednesday, March the second. It is the second segment of the show. You know what that means. We'd like to get our listeners involved. Twitter on the twenty Twitter Twitter, Twitter on the twenty You do, you do pretty good job with that, just trying to follow

Jeff's lee. Honestly, that's what I try and do. So talking about the depth of the draft, Dane, you said this in the first segment, second third, maybe even fourth round, and you you did. You talked about the depth of the pass rusher position yesterday. If that's if that's where you want to go with this, we can, but Troy would like to know about a position or positions in this draft where you feel like you can get a

better than expected player on Day three, like maybe fourth round. Honestly, I think of like Jabriel Cox comes to mind, a guy that we absolutely didn't expect to be there on Day three. Any positions with depth like that, where we're sitting there like, oh my god, like four of my five top names on Saturday are are still available and I didn't think they would be. I think it starts

with pass rusher. I mean, that's that's the deepest position this year, and so there's a good chance that a player you grade as a top one hundred pick in this draft is still there in the fourth round because there's just there's only so many spots for these guys, and a few of them will get pushed down. A guy like Josh Pascal from Kentucky six three, two seventy, really good run defender all day. In most drafts, he's a third round pick, and this draft might be a

fourth round pick. I think linebacker shapes up that way. You mentioned JR bo Cox. I mean it could be a similar thing this year where a linebacker like U, say, Troy Anderson from Montana State. You know, maybe he falls to the fourth round. He's he's a raw player, but when you look at the athletic traits and what he's going to grow into, gets you excited about what he could be. I have heard his name a ton and he's first of all, the backstory is great. I mean

he growing up in Montana. He was class valuedatorian, won a state title in three different sports. You know that do everything guy in high school, goes to Montana State, started at quarterback, started at running back. He ranks top ten in the school's all time history and rushing yards.

Moves the lineback, He's set the school record for single season rushing touchdowns as a sophomore twenty one, moves a linebacker and becomes a full time linebacker for just really the past two years or for he missed last year with the an injury. So but he has two years of experience as a full time linebacker. And you know, just don't make many guys that are sixty three and

a half to fifty that run like he does. And I thought he got better and better with the more defensive snaps he saw, So another guy that's raw and I'm not sure he's an instant contributor for you, but again, an investment where you feel like you're buying low and getting a guy that's gonna blossom for you throughout your time in your program. Yeah. I mean, coaches love those six three, six four guys two and thirty pounds because they can translate it whether it's on offense or defense.

That just sounds like a special team's ace. I mean Troy and if he's not contributing as a starting linebacker at some point in his career, he may be your best special teams player throughout his career. At the same time, maybe c J. Goodwins stuff like that. I was curious. I want to hear about the safety position because I see that as one of those where there's gonna be

some really good players. Sterling Weatherford's up there for me, Cam Taylor, Brett Kirby, Joseph Leon O'Neil junior from any and m These are guys that I think could potentially fall into that third, fourth, fifth round that once again it's a deep class. Maybe it's got those those top heavy guys like Kyle Hamilton, Dax Hill and company. But there's that gap and then you can find some real value later on as well. Yeah, I think that that's fair. I think there are six safeties at the top that

are kind of the top guys who you're six. Kyle Hamilton's at the top, Dax Hills right behind him. I think those two are the top guys. Petrie Lewis seen from Georgia, Brisker, Brian Cook. That next year would be those four guys, and then you know, I really like Kirby Joseph as a possible third rounder. Keep the name Nick Cross from Maryland on the radar. He's gonna absolutely kill it this week at the combine those testing numbers.

Teams are going to really buy into those. Nick Cross is going to be a winner from this week and be a guy that you know, we're talked at talking more and more about a possible third round pery on the Athletic on Monday morning. H J. T. Woods from Baylor. Um, you know yesterday how Baylor brought up track team here. He's one of those guys. I mean, he's maybe a little undersize compared to what most safeties are just body type wise, a little slender, but he could absolutely fly

and he makes plays um. Roan McKinley from Oregon, a local kid from Carrollton, Uh, played at heburn. Uh. You know, he's a guy that's gonna get dinged because he's not fast and he's not big. But I think when you when you look at his cover awareness, you look at the way he can make plays in the ball. It's six picks this year, so he can find the ball. Um, But he's gonna take a little bit of a hit

because he doesn't have those elite physical traits. I don't think he's going to run this week because probably not gonna run great. Yeah, So you know, Ron McKinley would be one of those guys once we get out of Day one and two in early day three, maybe a guy you take a look at. Speaking of Day three selections, I liked this question from a Mead a lot. He would like you to compare Josh Ball Cowboys fourth round pick,

red shirt. Really didn't see much of him this year, So still not sure what you have, But how would he compare in this tackle class? You know, I think that's obviously with him. There's you know, uh, off field factors and all that, so you know, taking all that out of a not into account here, you know, this is a tackle class that I think it's one of the stronger positions. I think, you know, edge rushers at the top, and then I think receiver, linebacker, tackle might

be my next three. So it's a it's a pretty deep tackle group. I think he'd be somewhere after you list your top ten tackles and then he could be somewhere right after that. So in that eleven to fifteen range in terms of the top tackles this year. Um, I think that he had so much ability with the way he moves, uh that I think that's what you bet on. You you bet on those movement skills that you know he can mirror in space, he can he can hold up verse speed, but also you know, drop

his anchor when he needs to do versus power. UM. So I'm you know, we don't know what what what what we have with him. So I think that you know, hopefully that there's more clarity moving forward. But I don't like him as a player last year in last year's class. Trying to look at where I had him last year in that class, but I would probably put him around I like Braxton Jones at a Southern Utah as as a guy kind of right in that middle group. I think he would probably fit in behind him in that

in that category. But still another guy who's a developmental player who I mean, of course we've already seen him need a red shirt, but he could still turn into a depth piece. I don't think he's ever gonna have starting caliber players, so i'd probably still say right around fifth round, six round class. I think this is a better tackle class from a depth perspective than last year's.

Another guy in this class who I think is very comparable as Kellen Dash from Arizona Stage, who doesn't have the length that you want, but you talk about foot quickness that that very similar to Ball from last year. And Dish is a he's a local kid. He's from somewhere in the DFW area. He's from Byron Nelson Trophy Club. Right right right, there's twenty nine different cities in the DFW. I got you if you can't. I appreciate that various

stewe point from Matt Uh. You know, Matt Zeke Elliott's future starts to get murky after the twenty twenty two season, Tony Pollard is entering a contract year. With that in mind, he would like some names of maybe some mid to late round running backs, kind of like Tony was back in twenty nineteen, to keep an eye on. This is a pretty good running back class. Um, if you need one of those guys. Uh. I don't think we're gonna

have a first round running back this year. Uh. And then there's a few guys that should go on Day two, but the value will be on Day three. And it depends on you know, what type of back you're looking for. If you're looking for a guy that can maybe be a bell cow for you for you know, a guy that can take those carries, maybe what they envisioned when they drafted a bow Scarborough. You know that type of guy. Abram Smith from Baylor. I think he was hoping you

would say that name. Tremendous seasons. Yes, he moved over from linebacker to running back. I think he's he's only his His his arrow continues to point up what he did as a senior into what he did a senior Bowl. M I won't be a top tester here, but I think I'll hold his own. So I think he fits

in that mold I agree with you completely. He was a running back in high school, had kind of played both ways, and then was recruited as a running back, made the full time switch to linebacker, where he actually was very successful as a linebacker as a junior, one of the top linebackers in the Big twelve. On of course that Baylor defense that has been so vaulted over the last couple of years. And then they said, you know what, we like what you could do with the

ball in your hands. And then he comes out and just casually puts up sixteen hundred yards in his only real full time season as the starting running back. And he had a split backfield to a certain extent with Tristan Edner. What he did he pull the opposite of Jalen Hurd Then, yeah, right, yeah, a little bit Baylor guys. Yeah, but he's he just wanted to get on the field. He talked about moving him the linebacker and he said, it's it's gonna get me on the field, and I'll

do it. As soon as Dane was talking about like eating up carries and that Bruisers was sort of tailback, he was the first one that comes to mind Appleen Kid, Kyle and I talked about this in Mobile. I was really I impressed. Is maybe strong, but I would I liked what I saw from Rashad White, the Arizona State guy in Mobile. For as big as he is, I just thought he had he had impressive burst for a

bigger running back. In my opinion, he does. The key for him will be catching the ball out of the backfield and being that you know that third down guy who you know can do different things for you and move them outside the out of the backfield. And um, I'll be honest, I don't I worry about him as an inside runner Like I just I'm not sure that it's he showed enough for me in terms of the vision and the patience and the tempo to consistently give you that. So I do worry about. Okay, a Defensei's

Rashad White out there. They know what's coming. They know, Okay, Flare route, you know the Wheel route, that the Texas route, you know they're gonna they're gonna. Really that that's what he does best, and so I think he needs to expand what he does really well. I needs to expand that a little bit just so keeps defenses guessing when he's on the field. What about Davante Price out of FIU.

I don't really know exactly how I feel about him, because he's again another tall, lanky, bigger running back and he's got some burst to it as well. Looks like he could really kind of play that Tony Pollard role, except he's bigger than Tony and a buy a couple of inches. What do you think about him and his ability out of the backfield? Could he potentially play a role like that? Yeah? I mean I think he's watching him on the FIU tape. I don't I don't necessarily

face it defense that he really challenged lenge him. You know, I could really tell you, uh, you know, just how good he is. Um, I dive for a bigger back. I expected more mistackles. I just didn't see enough of that for a guy that's that size. But he's got speed once he gets in the open field, he can scoop. So um, I think he's he's another guy in a day three range where uh you know, he'd be in

a shortlist of guys. He'd be looking at Kade and I wonder if this is a coincidence because of who he wants to know about He said, Kate Dotton has reportedly been linked to the Cowboys, which I like it. I mean, I take all of that stuff with so many grains of salt at the combine because everys have been linked to the Cowboys too. And on top of the I mean, is it a formal interview? Is it informal? Did they did they grab him in the hallway and say, hey,

we think you're a good player. I mean, there's no way to know, but he wants to know about Kate Dotton, his skill set, tight end out of Washington. For those of y'all that are not flier, uh, just sort of thumb thumb nail him for Kaide. I think one of the reasons this Washington coaching staff was fired is because

they didn't get the ball enough to Kadoton. Simply put, the offense was a knee mick this year for the Huskies, and the Kadoton was their best player, the best player on offense, and they could not get him the football. Part of that was scheme, part of it was inability of the quarterback to do it. So uh that and it just he had his foot injury towards the end of the year, and that foot injury kept him out

of Senior Bowl. It's going to keep him from working out here at the Combine only major injuries ever had and unfortunately it's it's kind of holding him back a little bit. But I think he's a top five tight end in this class. Uh, he might be the best all around tight end in terms of what he gives you as a receiver and as a blocker. Um, there's just a lot to like about Kadoton who he is right now and who he is is what are you

going to grow into? So because he has that injury, maybe a get him a little bit later than you then you thought you might. So if if a team might the Cowboys want to go tight end and say the late third round, and Kate Oughton would be an outstanding pick in my opinion. Where do you have him compared to Widemeyer from Texas A and M. Because I agree with you in terms of they're the most complete. I think Otton's more complete, but Widemeyer maybe has a

higher ceiling. Is there any kind of big difference between those two for you? I think so. I like Kate Outen a lot more than like Widemeyer. Um. I mean I shouldn't say that because they are. Oughton's like five on my tight end rankings, Widemeyer six, so you know they're okay, they're close. But in my opinion, like Oughton, I would feel really good taking on day two, where with Widemeyer, I don't. I think he's a Day three guy. Just my opinion. I think the top five tight ends

this year are kind of set. In my opinion, I think it's not in the order. I'm still a little we're trying to figure out. But Trey McBride, Greg Dulsik, Jeremy Ruckert, Isaiah Likely Kate Oughten. To me, those are the top five tight ends this year. It's just you get to figure out what's the correct order, what's the correct project action in terms of where you should be

drafting these guys. They're different with what they offer. Um, but Aughton, if you're looking for that, like Jarwin Dalton Schultz, I think Oughton fits a lot with what this team could be looking for. Alfredo wants us to put our GM hats on. He says, what would you you, not anybody else, not the Jacksonville Jaguars, what would you do at number one overall? With that Jacksonville pick. Oh uh, that's well. Aidan Hudginson's my top player on my on

my board, so I'd be disingenuous if I didn't say him. Um, but you know, the Jaguars have invested a lot in the pass rush position in the first round or you know, in recent years, So it would be it would come down to Adane Hudson and Ikey Aquanu. For me, Uh, Ikey's my number two player, my top offensive lineman. I think that he's uh really really good right now and he's getting better and better, so uh, you know, it's uh, it would be come down to one of those two

players if I want to get better pass rusher. Wanted to upgrade my offensive line either Adan Hutchinson a Quandu. For me, it's funny because I'm looking at the edge rushers. I think Tibodeau's in that conversation for me as well. I kind of want to know more about him off the field and kind of how the interviews go this week based off of what Dane was talking about yesterday, But just for this exercise, I would throw Tibidau in

that conversation. I see my like a more or a less poor Man's Miles Garrett is kind of what I look at with Cavon Thibadeau, and then I also see Joey Bosa whenever I'm looking at aida Aidan Hutchinson. So I like their potentials there. I like Aquanu for the Jags, though, I'm honestly with him because I want to protect Trevor Lawrence.

I want to find a way to really build into the future with him, and I think it starts by building an offensive line up front and maybe trying to find something on the defensive side of the football, either later in the draft or through free agency, because they have some money to play around there. In free agency, maybe that's where they add veteran talent on the defensive side. But build a young, cheap offensive line with a guy like a Quantu who's gonna come out and play nasty

for you and protect your quarterback at all costs. I hope you got your Aquanu at number one bets in early because uh, you're feeling confident about that. Well, yeah, now you can say in my I've only done two month draft. One was in December, one was m January. My second one, I had a Quantu at number one overall and an hour after the MOK draft went up, his odds to go number one went from like a thousand and one to about twenty five to one to

kind of impact this great kingmaker. I mean, unfortunately, I love like I love questions like that because you want to try to create a difference of opinion. And that's what I was about to say, Like, I just think it's kind of it's kind of boring this year because it's an edge rusher or a tackle. I don't know who else it could be for a team that just drapped to Trevor Lawrence. Yep, So I would and you know, Dane, I'm such a coward, Like I'm not going to sit

here and be like, it's gotta be this guy. But like I would take Evan Neil or Aquanu whichever one you feel better about, don't really care what your preference is, or Hutchinson or Thibodeau. I would say I would. I feel way more comfortable with Hutchinson just based on what I know right now, I will say they're both great. Pairing Josh Allen with either one of those guys sounds very very fun. Sure, But man, how could you do again?

Like we talked about yesterday, and there's some irony there because the Bengals didn't draft a tackle and got to the Super Bowl. But why wouldn't you invest in what you do best right now, which is having Trevor Lawrence like keep that guy on his feet. That is your clearest path to success. Well there's not a Jamar Chase for Jacksonville the draft either, So there's there's a conversation. You look at you like, you just look at the big names, the sexy names, any of the corners enticier

at all? You're Boystingley. If this was February of twenty twenty, I'd be standing on the table Force saying if you flip his twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one seasons, you just flip him. He goes number one. Absolutely. Yeah, No, I think I remember doing the Draft show that year and being like we're talking about Christian Fulton and it's like, yeah, but the guy coming down the lines of like top five. But I don't. I don't feel comfortable with that right now,

not based on what the last two years have been. Like. Same thing with again Thibodeaux. There's stuff to figure out there. Um who else, I mean all the there's not a receiver that fits that mold. Kyle Hamilton. What was the last time a receiver even went number one overall? Keisha? Yeah, yeah, that's the last time. And I'm no, yeah, there's not There's not a guy. You could make the argument that Kyle Hamilton's the best player in the draft, the best

talent in the draft. And is that just positional value? Do you have? Well? Yeah, do you have the guts to take a safety number one overall? I mean the last safety that went top two overall was back in like nineteen ninety one when Belichick drafted Eric Turner. Do you see all? So it just doesn't happen all of them. And as long as we're doing the LSU thing, the last safe like Jamal Adams win top five and that has not really panned out the way that you would

prefer for anybody. Get confused. When I see mock drafts of the Jets taken a safety at four, I was like, they didn't really kind of learn that lesson our value just doesn't match up with what they'd like to do, which again, like it's a cliche, but the cornerstone positions, you know, Jags don't need a quarterback. There's not a cornerback that I'm sold on doing that like being worthy of number one overall. Now you're looking at edge and tackle.

There it is, and I would rather have a tackle if I just spent a number one overall pick on Trevor Lawrence. Mario wants to know, is it is it possible for the Cowboys to get wiped out? Like? Can you envision that? Yeah, at twenty four, I'd be surprised, just because I think, you know, like the difference between pick fifteen and fifty, there's just not that much difference. And so you're telling me that they can't find a player that they like in that range that they would

feel feel good about there. Now, obviously you have your wish list, you have who you really want, and could they get wiped out of their top options? Sure, I think that's that's possible. You know, linder Bomb's gone, all the pass rushers are gone. Um, you know, say Kenyan Greene's gone. Um. I think that is semi realistic. But there's I think there's gonna be someone that they're gonna feel comfortable with um at that point in the draft, and you know they're they're gonna get and and you

know what what what draft was? It was it thirteen when they drafted Travis Frederick. Yeah, they kind of you know that that whole you know, weren't sure what they were gonna go, and they traded back and they still you know, obviously it worked out. Okay, UM, I think with this this group, they're they're gonna find someone they liked there. I would be very surprised if they couldn't find a player that they didn't think very highly of

UM at that point in the draft. Now, I think I'm with you because even when you look at it and we talked through the ten names that we feel like are there, if you wanted to stretch that to fifteen that are locks to go in front of twenty four, I still see ten other names. So even with the fifteen guys that you think are going to be out of your reach, there's another ten fifteen guys that you still feel great about taking at twenty four. And it's

different for every conversation you have. Some people will like the fact that Zion Zion Johnson could potentially be there twenty four. Others might not like it. But depending on what this coaching staff does, there's going to be people in the room pounding on the table for somebody that's at twenty four because they liked those prospects. I'm not falling for this banana and the tailpipe in twenty twenty two. Because we stress out about it every year and more

often than not it works out pretty well. I mean, ironically, they got wiped away from their cornerbacks last year. Yeah, so, I mean that did happen, but those were elite quarterbacks corners, and then they still had two names. They still wound up with a choice of two guys that were named All proses rookies. Yeah, yeah, it worked out all right. One last one from our buddy Connor, friend of the show,

Sam Williams, old Miss Edge Rusher. He wants he's got some off the field issues, kind of talk about who he is as a prospect and where would he be without like, how how highly would you rate him without the off field and how will that affect his dress. We talked about contacts and how important it is with these guys understanding where they're from. And he was a basketball guy growing up, that was his focus. Um, and

he goes to high school, UM and is a football player. Uh, you know, guy in some trouble in high school, had a transfer a senior year, has to go to Juco Route because he's not he you know, doesn't have the

grades for football, didn't have the pedigree either. Really Uh, just as a relatively new football player who was again always a basketball player in most of his life, goes to Juco Route, does really really well, then goes to Old Miss. Ran into some trouble there, but he was cleared to stay on the field, and this past year he was really productive All SEC player. Uh. There's a little bit of stiffness in his rush, but he's got acceleration. Uh,

he can make plays verse to run. As long if you're comfortable with the person, you're comfortable with his background and everything that went on behind the scenes, you're gonna feel comfortable drafting this guy somewhere on day two. And I think you're gonna get a pass rusher that you're gonna make as part of your rotation right away, and then a guy that eventually you think can starve for you down the road. He was added to the Senior Bowl week late right he was he was at NFLPA Collegibowl,

that's right. Then injuries he got added late to to the roster for the Senior Bowl. Ye had a pretty good week too. Would you on the field, would you imagine and I mean beauties in the eye of the beholder, right like you can't predict what all thirty two teams are gonna think, But would you guess that that his his his past is enough to push him into day three, probably just because um, you know, uh, it was something

that he was cleared pretty quickly. But still, you know, more teams dig and you know he had an incident in high school then involved a knife like a pocket knife, and you know that kicked out of school for that. I think that it's possible, very possible that he's still around in the fourth, fifth round. But I still think there's a good chance there will be at least one team that is you know it is okay with everything and just wants to buy low on the passworks. Potential.

Wonderful batch of questions. We appreciate it. We will be right back after this break to wrap up this Wednesday show. Be right back. Football season is almost over and that means tax season is here. With it comes taxiety. Filing taxes can be stressful if you choose the wrong partner. Don't let taxiety take over this tax season. Liberty Tax will help you get your largest possible refund or your money back. With more than twelve thousand tax professionals nationwide,

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dot gov. This is that Dallas Cowboys dot com Draft show. Wrapping up Wednesday's episode of the Draft show, I'm Dave Hellman, joined by Kyle Yeomans and Dane Brugler of The Athletic. We will have one more show for y'all on Thursday, which ironic, Well, I mean, I'm nothing if not transparent. We still won't have seen any damn drills by tomorrow. I mean to be going on while we record. Yeah, actually, there are, there are some drills. There's a potential for

another guest there too. Oh oh, Kyle, can you tell? Can you tell? Kyle's hosted things in the past. I've learned from the talent coaches the tease is a powerful thing. I have heard whispers on the wind that sprinkles. Cowboys Executive vice president of Personnel Will McClay might be joining us excited about that. It's could be great. Will is always very good with his time after the draft. If he actually sits down with us during Combine week and

gives us a segment, that would be pretty amazing. I think it'd be great. And by the way, it should be up by the time this is posted. But we got a chance to sit down with Stephen Jones and talk about a couple of things about Talk Combine. I try, like I try to keep the Cowboys weeds off of this show. But that was a draft interview for sure. For sure, we got into into some prospect talk, into some drill talk. So that'll be on the site. Yeah,

depending on when you're listening to this, it's probably already there. Yeah, it probably is so, but yeah, keep tune for that. In the meantime, Kyle, you speaking of tease, do you tease this in the first segment? Not on purpose, but I did. Why on earth would you want to trade up in this draft? Well, because of kind of what we were talking about earlier. If you're telling me that you can get up nine spots in the draft, I'm looking at thirteen. I know that's eleven. It is a

massive jump. That is a big jump. If you can tell me you can maybe move in front of the Eagles either at their nineteenth pick, I would get in front of them. Yeah, if you can get in front of them at nineteen, or you can get in front of them at fifteen and ensure that you get your top prospect on the board, depending on how much they like them. I like Tyler Linderbaum enough to go and do that. I don't know if they do. That's the thing is the Cowboys. Are they willing to do that?

I also don't want to give up fifty six in order to do that. I don't want to give up that second round pick. I told you two weeks ago. Don't give me that work. You're gonna jump nine spots in the first round and hold onto your second round pick. That's tough. Maybe if it's that cheap, then yeah, let's talk about it. I don't think the nine would happen. I think it would be eleven, not eleven, excuse me,

seventeen eighteen. Maybe in there somewhere if you wanted to trade with New Orleans, if they wanted to trade back and maybe get a better view of the land for a quarterback. Seventeen. Maybe the Chargers don't necessarily want to make their pick there and they want to trade back a little bit more. I don't usually feel comfortable speaking for Dane, but I'm just Dane. He's looking at me. Give me the pick, Stane, Right, what is it gonna take. It would have to be one of like my top

six players. One of those guys would have to fall, you know, and for me to have to make that type of move, Yeah, I'm not making that move for Linderbaum. I'm not making that move for Do I have to give up fifty six in order to make it happen if you're talking about eleven spots, yeah, yeah, see, I don't want to do that. Then I'm okay with that. The chart, the chart kind of goes out the window in the first round a little bit. I mean, you

can still, especially it's based on the prospect pool. You can exactly like you you dictate the terms when you're talking about the first round. That's like those trades get out of whack All Giants and Bears last year whenever they were at eleven behind the Cowboys to go up and get justin fields, that was a massive number. It's not going to take that massive number to go up seven spots eight spots again this year because there's not that high quarterback pool that you have to pull from.

As long as we're doing this and Dane, I would love your inputs. I mean, I'll be honest. We've we've talked about Tyler Linderbaum a lot and we will keep doing it. And that's gonna happen. That's fine. But I feel myself coming around on this thought process, like I almost feel like we're making a bigger deal of Tyler Bottish than we need to because like I look, I look at it, Tyler Bottish, fourth round pick. He's been fine.

He definitely he's got some stuff to work on. Definitely, the interior of this offensive line was a weak point. Sure was he so bad that that should be like the where Waldo situation, especially when you consider left guard was equally a problem and oh, by the way, they don't really have one right now. Connor Williams is a free agent. Connor McGovern replaced him in the lineup and quickly got yanked again. Doesn't inspire a ton of confidence

in me. And so, like, when I'm thinking about these names that you fixate on in the first round, I start to lean toward Kenyon Green as a more intriguing option, because if you play Tyler Beatish between the best guard in football and a first round pick, he might look at hell of a lot better. That's that's fair, absolutely, And I personally I'd rather go after, say a Luke Fortner in the third round and have him compete for that job. Fortner is going to give you center guard versatility.

He's gonna help you upgrade the offensive line. But I think your point is valid. Where you upgrade that other guard spot and all of a sudden Tyler beatis, you know, all of a sudden his play goes up as well his performance. So that's that's very fair. I think it's fair to look at this and say, okay, well, let's look at last year, the first how many picks for the Cowboys were defensive five or six. I believe that's rare and unprecedented. Right this year, it could be the opposite.

It really could be. We could see the first five picks for the Cowboys being offensive. This is going to be an offensive heavy draft, and offensive line, tight end, probably receiver. Those three positions it's it's gonna be, you know, make up three of the first probably four picks the Cowboys make, in my opinion. So let me get this straight. So you're not saying go away from offensive line in the first You're saying potentially pulled Kenyon Green up to

the Tyler linderbomb sort of scenario there. Yeah, And I want to be if Tyler Linderbaum was their pick, I would be happy with that. Sure, no problem at all. I just again, we've got four months of airtime to

fill and only so much we can say. And I just kind of I get the sense that, like he's the default, people become fixated on him to the point where I'm like, well, hang on now, like there are other ways we can improve this without just obsessing over improving a center where you have a young starter who's not been great but also not been awful. Well. I think you bring up great points because right now you look at the contract situation, Beyotish is on the team.

Your starter at left guard is not on the team at the moment, that's Connor Williams. I mean, would you rather, would you rather go, like you know, training camp is wrapping up in early September, late August. Would you rather Tyler Beyotish as your starting center or Connor mcgovernors your starting left guard? What would you prefer? I think I would probably still go with Tyler Beyotish as a starting center. Agree.

I agree. The only thing that throws a wrench into that conversation is if they're willing to move Lyle Collins to left guard. But we're getting the thought process that that's not going to happen. We kind of regardless, we get the inkling here from getting to you know, the beauty of the combine, we have to go out and talk to talk. I don't get the feeling that that

is in the cards. I don't think so either. And if that's done in the cards, then I think I'm more on board with the green pick than a lender Bomb pick. I mean not more so. I think both are great players. And they're right there with each other. But I would be more enticed by the green pick or trying to upgrade that guard spot rather because either way you're looking at it as a quarterback behind it. In that interior pressure. That was an absolute problem on

the back half of the schedule this season. And he of course had this shoulder, he had the cav he had the angle, he has had all these injuries. You got to protect Dak Prescott, and in order to do that, you're going to have to upgrade one of those two positions early in this draft, before really you even look at some other spots. Dan, you're so intuitive. Again, we get we get to come out here and we talk

to people. Somebody was joking with us yesterday, were like, yeah, talk talk up how we need defenders, talk up how we're going defense heavy. Again, don't let anybody. Let's not put it out there that we're hunting offense, which maybe that's maybe it's extreme to say they're hunting offense, but when you think about the potential issues at receiver, not even potential, no matter what happens with a Marii Cooper,

they got holes to fill there. Tight end is a problem spot for this team interior offensive line, and then even down the line. You can throw running back in there as well as rusher and wide receiver are not out of the question in the first two rounds either. A chance. This team wants to be explosive on offense, and you know, we saw flashes of that throughout the season, but in order to be more consistently explosive, they have work to do. And it starts at on the offensive line,

starts with uh, you know, targets on the outside. Um, there's there's a different directions they could go. Tight End is gonna look different. The tight end ut charts gonna look very different next year. So this is a tight end draft where I would feel very comfortable waiting until the fourth round of Draft one. I mean that that's kind of what they did with Dalton Schultz. I mean you're kind of, you know, maybe go that direction again with targeting one of these guys in the fourth round,

feeling good about who you're getting at that point. So yeah, this is ah, this is gonna be an offensive heavy draft. I think the Cowboys real quick before we get out of here, Jeff Kavanaugh is not here to do it. So I'll speak for him. But can you sell me on a trade down? Like how attractive does that? How attractive does that look to you? Given this talent pool. Yeah, and I think obviously it's tough when you're talking about picking twenty four. You don't know how the first twenty

three picks go. You don't know who's on the board for you. But if someone's offering you, say, a package of Day two picks, that that's awfully appealing. But it's gonna sting a little bit to move out of the first round if that's what if a team's moved up to get a quarterback or um, you know, I think I would love to trade back a few spots and still stay in the first round, still have my first round pick, and then pick up an extra Day two pick.

To me, that would be an ideal scenario because again, I don't think you're getting wiped out there at twenty four. I just want I just want Day two picks, that's all I want. That sounds fun. You stack them up, you sifties picks. I mean that. Yeah, I don't know about well, we'll finish it with where we started it. Yeah, LaQuan Treadwell, I don't know. I don't know, if I I don't know, if I actually want to be making those decisions. Hey, that'll do it for day two of

the Draft Show. We got one more, hopefully joined by Will McClay. We'll see about that. We will check in with y'all tomorrow. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you next time. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.