Draft Show: A Lot Has Changed

before you know it. But the Draft Show continues on here on talking cal or excuse me, on the Traft Show presented by Miller like Gladger with us and well the intro was Brian brought us up at the beginning as always, talking about oh they took him one of my favorite clips ever. Brian, thank you for giving that radio gold for Cede Lamb whenever they selected CD Lamb. He's also got the gold in terms of the polo

he's got on. He's got that Miller light swag with the Draft Show logo with the background, Dave's rocking the varsity jacket, David Helmont with us as always, and then we've got Bucky Brooks in the house coming from CALLI on the West Coast streaming in live. That's the kind of insight you get here on the Draft Show is the fact that you've got over fifty years combined between these three covering the NFL Draft, and no matter where they are in the world, there's still a part of

the Draft Show. But boys, how we doing this week? There's been a lot that's changed since the last time we talked, Brian. I think the Cowboys went from what could have been the fourth overall pick, they're now sitting at eleven and a chance to still win the division. They're three and one since the Draft Show started, and I think that has to credit what Derek Ingleton did

and starting the Draft Show back up. Well, yeah, absolutely, And you know that was one of those things when you you know, you look at the order of the draft at one time, you're you're sitting in the forehole and you're looking at this board in a completely different light. And then you put some wins together and you have a chance to win the division and now you're sitting in somewhere near the middle of the board. And then

if you win and get in, you're now moving down further. So, yeah, the right the dynamics of how the scouts even look at it. You know, they're thinking, Okay, we're evaluating these players, and now we're evaluating these players, and now we're evaluating these players. So yeah, it's a it's a it's a journey throughout. But you know, good for the Cowboys, good

for the fans, the opportunity to play in the playoffs. Said, wherever they land in the draft order, you know, we'll be there to talk about it to every step of the way. What do you think about this, Bucky, Because I mean even from the last time we talk, the Jets have won two straight games and the Jaguars have locked up that top overall picks. Things continuously change in the NFL, as I know we all have been aware of, but I mean even more so over the last couple

of weeks. Yeah, I think what you see is the competitiveness of the league. And despite what we on the outside talk about when it comes to draft picks and positioning, players and coaches are trying to win each and every week. And we've seen that play out, and I think the excitement that is building in Dallas, obviously it's about a team that appears to be playing against best football going

down the stretch. And it's really a bit of a blessing in the skies because now the draft positioning, we're probably better aligned with what the needs are. And I don't think you will have some of those tough conversations that were existing before when the Cowboys were positioned in the top five and we were talking about quarterbacks and all that other stuff. Dave you agree with that, I'm choosing to believe now I'm choosing to believe. Kyle. I'll tell you this is our doing. Like you said, we

are responsible for this. You know, the players and coaches on the team looked at our site and they're like, holy crap, they're already talking about the draft. We gotta do something about this and lo and behold. Yeah, honestly, it sounds counter intuitive because obviously, if you care about the draft, you want the best pick possible, and you know, maybe maybe being in the top five could have presented

you in a situation where you can trade down. But I feel way, I know people are gonna say I'm blowing smoke, but like, I feel way less stressed out about picking between ten and sixteen than I do. I'm I'm serious. Brian who are you Who are you gonna pick with that top five pick? Who are you gonna take? Oh we'll find is somebody to pick. Yeah, well we'll find you know what, your quarterback situation hasn't resolved by any means. Stop stop it, stop it. Oh no, you're

quite it's not it's not. And you know, and I don't know people, and you know you've you know, yeah, Bucky's right, This thing is now more line. You could have taken one of those offensive linemen up there, but you know that the quarterback was in play. You know that that the tight end who was a freak athlete was in play. I mean, there's a lot of things to a lot of directions should go. I look at it is this way though. I'm happy they're winning. I'm

happy they're having an opportunity for the division title. But I'm also thinking about what could I have done picking at the top of every single round and maybe moving some things around in order to help my team. That's the selfish scouted me, thinking about am I closer to the Packers and the Saints and those people, or do I need to get help to try and do that? And picking high in every one of those spots at least affords me that opportunity. I believe, Hey, and those things,

those things are not mutually exclusive. Like you can want the Cowboys to win and still be disappointed. You're absolutely right, Like, I'm not that disappointed using a top ten pick. I'm very disappointed about not having pick thirty five, thirty six, or pick sixty five, like those picks at the top of the second, third, and fourth round. That's what gets

me excited. And you know, it's it's exciting what the team is doing, but it's it's a little bit of a bummer to know that, you know, those picks are probably going to be more like six. Just just real quick, guys. I mean, we saw last week the Cowboys play the Eagles, and it looks like the Eagles have the same problems

that you have. You know that you look at their defense and the secondary and now you're thinking, well, Philadelphia is gonna be picking against ahead of us all day, you know, And that's and that's you know, when you start you start thinking about Okay, and you could say it about I guess all the teams, but especially a

team within your division. You see bad secondary play there, what's the one thing the Cowboys are clearly going to have to address their secondary Philadelphia could be just picking one player off every time, you know, on defense, and you know that's that's that That to me is what stressful, Dave, when I have to walk that mind field of my division opponents picking ahead of me, knowing that they've got

just as many issues on defense as I do. The thing is, then, brand what you gotta do is you gotta scout the scouts and how confident are you that they can pick the right guys? And so it's looking at them and saying, Okay, they have a need like we have a need, but their track records suggested they can't pick the right guy. We're not going to be

picking from maybe the same lot. And so I think it's a situation where you probably feel better about the team winning because I think it was probably more important from a cultural standpoint that Mike McCarthy could fix the issues, because if you lose the belief of the players in the locker room, I don't really know what twenty twenty one would it look like if this team fell apart

going down the stretch. And I think you look at the Philadelphia with their loss, they fall to sixth, and they jump to six rather in the draft, so they're gonna be picking above you, like Brian said, throughout the rest of the draft. But outside of maybe those early later round picks like the thirty five thirty six slide, and then maybe then then the third round, fourth round,

so on. Outside of the disappointment of not picking that high in each round, it's also the options that you have early on already have ten picks, You could have had thirteen or fourteen if you wanted to trade out of the top five to try and land back to where you're ultimately going to be right here at this moment. But I kind of want to weld what both Brian and Dave were talking about a moment ago and what

Bucky said in his opening statement. But with all the uncertainty right now of what Dallas where they could be picking, I mean, they could lose this week and they're still going to be in the top ten, or you could win this week and not win the division. You're right

in the middle of the teens. And then if you win the division, of course you're nineteen are up in terms of the draft position, But what positions are out there that you feel most comfortable about Bucky In terms of drafting in the first round, do you think there is a position that's out there that you feel more comfortable picking than others. I think offensive tackles, I feel really comfortable picking them. Where the Cowboys could be positioned

anywhere from eleven to nineteen or so. I think cornerbacks. Depending on what style corner you're looking for, I think you probably could feel good about maybe making a run there. I am really iffy on the pass rushers this year. I know there are a lot of names that would be thrown out there, like Greg Russo from Miami or whatever. I just don't know. I don't feel that as comfortable

with those guys. But I do feel really good about offensive tackles, cornerbacks, and I would even throw tight ends, even though I think everyone in Dallas would lose their mind if they took another offensive player, particularly a pass catching But I mean there's something to building strength on strength. Brian, Yeah,

I feel I agree with Bucky. You know, the more that I've dived into what's going on, you know, And I'll be honest with I watched a kid last night from Wake Forest, this Carlos Basham the defensive end, and I'm thinking, like, Okay, why is he a guy at the bottom, near the bottom of the board when we're talking about potential first round guys. Hey six four, two hundred seventy four, two hundred and seventy five pounds, And

I'm thinking, well, why isn't he not up there? Because Bucky's right, These defensive ends, man, there's so many questions about and there's so many different body types and there's so many levels of production. But you know, to me, it looks very strong with the with these offensive tackles. I think this quarterback group, we've kind of talked about him and what we think about them. I'm interested in

these corners as well. You know, Bucky's right, depending on what kind of guy, uh that you wanted at cornerback, you know, you could you know. I was watching the Kid from from Georgia the other day, and you know, and I was just I was just kind of sitting there in my and my mind thinking like, Okay, well, you know this Tyson Campbell, and I'm thinking, Okay, he looks good as a press corner. He's physical, Okay, can he play in this style? The Cowboys going to switch

their their their their their scheme. You know, everybody's got a little bit different fit. But man, you've got all those former NFL players, sons that are playing these positions at corner and the secondary and stuff. Sorting those guys out. It's going to be a group, and I think you're going to be able to choose the type of guy that you want that best fits your scheme. So I do love what I see at the cornerback spot. I

don't like what I'm seeing at defensive end. And I hadn't yet seen a defensive tackle that I really love with to be honest with you, hey, Brian, real quick, just in case you aren't aware, Carlos Basham is the cousin of your buddy Terrell Basham, who you love so much. Here you go go, there you go. And he looks the part. He physically when he plays that single digit that nine was eighteen last year, but he looks the part. And but man, it's always sorting out these defensive ends.

And maybe with the Cowboys, maybe with the emergence of Randy Gregory, maybe you know, pair him with Lawrence. Maybe that's something that's not so much oppressing you. We haven't seen Bradley and I yet, maybe he comes in and plays well, but I feel better about what I'm seeing with these cornerbacks going forward here. If you're a Dallas Cowboys fan and that's the direction you want to go, that's you took the words right out of my mouth, Brian,

because that's that's what I was trying to say. I like, I get it you want to have a higher pick, but I feel personally, let's say the Cowboys picked between ten and nineteen, I feel so much better about drafting Patrick Certan, Caleb Farley, j C. Horne, who you mentioned is the son of Joe Horn. And then I would maybe even I haven't watched him full disclosure, but just knowing that Ohio State is DBU, I would throw Sean Wade in there as well as maybe a guy who

you feel decent about in that range. Just knowing the caliber of cornerback that they are that they typically put out, I feel way better about drafting any of those guys in that range than if they had been at five or six or something like that. And then I would just throw in Brian, I know you luck, I know you love Kyle Pitts. I went and I went back and looked at this. I mean, he seems to be special.

I'm not guaranteeing that he's gonna be there, But if you are a Kyle Pitts fan, I don't think picking at eleven or twelve rules that possibility out. Only four tight ends have been taken in the top ten in the last twenty years. UM T. J. Hockinson a few years ago, UM, Eric Ebron, thank you, Bucky Vernon Davis, and uh and it's a North Carolina guy. That's why I remember that. There you go, There you go. And UM, I believe the fourth one was Kellen Winslow all the

way back in like two thousand and four. So it doesn't happen that often. So it's it's at least plausible to think Kyle Pitts could be there for you at like the eleventh, twelfth, or thirteenth pick. So I don't think it changes the topic of conversation all that much. To be honest with you, if you want to hear me scream like when Ceedee Lamb got picked, I will give you an absolute another sound bite for your show next year. If Kyle Pitts is the guy that's taken,

they took him. Yeah, to your to your point, though, you know, I think there's maybe a couple it. Maybe I think that that Farley will be gone. But you're right certain those these Kendrick, I mean, those guys are I think that's kind of in that group of that where you're talking about eleven, twelve, thirteen. That's if you hold that that spot, you can very well be picking nineteen now and we're looking at a whole different group

of players there. I will say Kyle Pitts will play his final collegiate football game at AT and T Stadium in Arlington coming up tomorrow. So just so you know, Kyle Pitts is going to get an early tour of the place because Florida is playing Oklahoma in the Cotton Ball. I don't know if he's opted out yet or not. I haven't actually looked at that. But also I was gonna say, I think I think might out. That's annoying. Take that point away. Then all these guys are opting out,

which I don't. It's funny. So now here's the thing, Uh, Dave, your guy Boogie Bashan is minute to go to the Senior Bowl, so we might get a chance to see him in the postseason, and we talk about the cluster that we could have with all the pass rushes, whatever, it might be a chance for him to kind of separate himself from the others. Six five, two hundred and seventy five pounds. And I agree with what Brian was talking about in terms of looking the party. My goodness,

I mean, he's a frill. He's a total freak. Yeah. He he looks the part in that uniform, an old krusty scout guy here when he sees somebody look and when he's down into stance and you're like, oh, okay, I see what's going on here. But yeah, that you know, that's I'm looking for those guys as you continue to fall down this draft board, and again, good for them, there's gonna be players. It's a it's a totally different look.

You know, you got to evaluate all these guys. But now you start to say, at nineteen, where's the possibilities, what direction, what corners, what linebackers? You know, this team needs help, they need defensive help. But you know, again, that's that's my focus right now, is to find which one of these guys is the best fit for this

football team. Well, and that's another great point, because there's gonna be a lot of people listening to this and listening to our show throughout the offseason and rolling their eyes at the possibility of drafting an offensive player in the first round. But this was a question that I know, Bucky, or excuse me, Brian, you actually brought this up in

our group message. But I want to know from an old krusty scout like yourself, like you said that your words, not mine, just want to throw that out there, but from someone from somebody who's been in a room like that. Is there such thing as a momentum draft? I mean, last year we saw that the wide receivers were the position to be had, and the Cowboys had the best one fall to them, arguably the best one fall to them,

and ceede Lamb at seventeen. You ultimately ended up with a really nice draft that found defensive starters later on. But is that the same kind of mindset? Is there such thing as momentum whenever it comes to a war room and it comes to draft picks, even if they might not be your number one need at the time. Oh,

I absolutely believe in momentum and a draft. I feel like that there's times where teams have reached for players or they went out a sequence of how they really saw a player and maybe their gut feeling on the board. As they put a player up there there was a split vote in the room. Somebody had to make a decision. That's our guy. Half the scouts are hating it, half the scouts are loving it. You know, you want a

consensus the best you can, and I do. I think the Cowboys had great momentum in their draft last year. I mean, and they'll tell you about Diggs. They had a first you know, they had grades on Digs where if they got wiped out at seventeen, they could have taken him there. So all of a sudden, you have ceedee lamp. Okay, everybody's jacked about the pick. Now you make the next pick. It's Digs. Wow, we just got a player, you know that we had a really high

grade on. So I think that you could you could get a little rhythm in a draft and it starts coming to you and that the board appears a little bit clearer to you. So I absolutely believe in that, and I think that sometimes you could take a player and it throws off that rhythm of how you're picking and you're reaching, and did we do the right thing? Is there questions? I think the Cowboys were in a great rhythm last year when they were drafting their board.

You know, Brian to pick it back on that point. I believe that's why you have to vet everything out. And we talk about the BA board. We have the horizontal board where guys are broken down by position, but then also the vertical board, and whether you have one hundred and twenty five or one hundred and fifty prospects on that board, if you stay true to it and the grades are like consistent, I think what you do

is you just pick it off as it comes. And so if you talk about Digs having a first round grade because maybe he was there eighteenth best prospect on the board, that is what you should do. You shouldn't

go out of turn trying to pick a guy. And that's where you have to be really really mindful of need, because sometimes in reaching for that need, you end up taking a bad player and two three years later we're having to go back and fish in the same pond because we really didn't get it that was worthy of being selected at this spot. See I will say that

isn't that bucky. I think that's exactly why I don't believe that momentum exists, with all due respect to Brian, because this all it resets every time you pick, Like every time you pick, you've got to wait for the other thirty one teams to pick, and then it all resets. Like case in point twenty sixteen, everybody's high five and about Zeke Elliott, it like everybody's excited. I don't think there would anybody that was like two upset about passing on EmSee you get to the next round and you

get wiped out. They lost Kevin Dodd and Emmanuel Ogba, like back to back, right in front of them, and they kind of had to scramble. And I think the Jalen pick worked out better than a lot of people thought, but it still probably wasn't what they wanted to do. And then the next year you got a lot of people that don't love Taco Charlton that picks not beloved across the board. But then the next day comes and you have two really solid defensive backs fall to you.

I Jordan Lewis felt like a steel at the time. Again not talking about the way their careers panned out, but the way the pick was received at the time and the thought process, you came out of Friday of that draft feeling really good about restocking your secondary, even though a lot of people weren't in love with the first round pick. So I just think, I think all of these picks are unique unto themselves because of all

the circumstances. Well, you just mentioned you just mentioned the players that are probably not going to be here, but

did you have them for two or three years. I'm just talking about the rhythm of the draft in the way because like Bucky's right, there's sometimes teams will reach on players and it throws them off and they're all of a sudden, it's like, you know, I remember this in a in a draft with Bill Parcels when we took to Marcus ware and like Parcels wanted Sean Merriman and you know, and and we were adamant about where where or where, and all of a sudden, it's like,

you know, we take, we take, we take where Parcels is picked. But the momentum carried us to like, okay, let's focus on Marcus Spears, Let's focus on the next guy. And we were we were working our way that but it was it was, it was it was having that plan and executing the plan and the momentum going forward where you know, Parcels was pissed and we didn't care. You know, we were focused on we were focused on

our guy. And then all of a sudden we drew Parcels back into the draft because oh wait, Spears is there, and he's like, Jerry goes Brian, tell me who's going to take defensive ends in front of us? I said, Cincinnati, Minnesota. You know, those teams took two defensive ends, but they didn't take Spears. And then then the next I mean, it just was I believe in the wave of that, the feeling of the room, that's the that's the momentum

I'm drawing from it. Yeah, you get the players are different, You're right, But the feeling you get as like, hey, we're nailing this thing. We're working, we're we're working the board, we're working the phones, we're doing everything we can. And at the end of the day, you sit back, can you look at your board to go, damn, we had

a good day. You know, that's momentum to me. Yeah, I think Dave, what Brian is really alluding to is there are certain years and I think every general manager, every scout would tell you some years, man, you really feel like you got it nailed in terms of your grades and what the players are and where you are in terms of draft position that you're saying, and we're sitting at nineteen, here's the cluster players that are gonna be available to us. We have grades that justify these

guys being taken at that spot. And when it falls that where you're like, man, that's a great job of us knowing exactly what we want and having the guys graded appropriately. And I think when you do that and you have those things lined up, you do walk away feeling like, Okay, we got our guy. Now let's go and focus on the next Here where we are, we're thirty six. Here are the guys that are available in

thirty six. And when that board opens up and you have two or three of your choices, that's when you have the momentum. I think what you're alluding to in terms of it not being there, there is something to that, because the thing that is crippling is when you're looking at the board, you're two picks away and there's no one available that you really feel good about at that spot. No one has grated guys that are at that level.

But you know that your your resigns to taking someone because you have to take someone at that pick and you can't necessarily trade out. Yeah. I think that's a and that's a fair point the thing. But momentum could also be restored by man, you could see ten picks before they get to you. You're like, man, they're they're taking our guys off one at a time. Here, let's work these phones. Let's see. You know, Dallas made a Dallas made a blow the hatch move with Travis Frederick

to go to eighteen to thirty. You know, they left a second round pick basically on the table to get out of there. That to me is that's a panic. Momentum is finding a way to say, Okay, we're in trouble here, boys, let's let's see what we could get. If we could get a two out of this, let's go. You know. So, I think there's there's certain levels of that, But you know, I just feel like though when the room feels it, when the room feels it in those

tags are coming off the right way. That's the momentum that helps you in those three days of drafting these players. And hopefully there will be momentum in the draft coming up in April, because there certainly was in twenty twenty, and I think you could potentially see that again coming up and depending it doesn't matter where they are. It could be top ten, it could be late teens. If the Cowboys could find a momentum and find that rhythm with the scatting department. We saw it last year when

they were picking at seventeen. When we come back though here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, it's time for some twitter on the twenty How does this draft class compare to last year's and is it head and shoulders below the twenty twenty class. We'll talk about it next when we come back. There's nothing as unique as our eyes, which is why SLOR pioneers ways to

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for you for details. This is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Second segment Here at the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Glad you're with us on Dallas Cowboys dot Com streaming coast to coast and around the world. This episode five of the twenty twenty one Draft Show. And we're gonna talk about that twenty one draft class.

Brian brought us David Hellman, We've got Bucky Brooks, I'm Kyle Yeomans and guys say it's time now for some Twitter on the twenty Twitter on the twittery little delay, but we got it. There we go, Chris Beam putting in work back there in the back. He's got a lot of buttons to push throughout the day. Let's start things off with Matt Johnson. And Matt Johnson comes out and he says, who are you looking to snap's a bad player for the Cowboys. I just say the former Cowboys.

He's a bad player. That was a bad pick. I don't think that was a bad momentum. No momentum on that pick. The unicorn himself. Oh, Matt Johnson, I do not know if that was him, and if it is, we apologize unfortunately. But were you looking to stag at pick nine eleven if Dallas does not make the playoffs? And who are you looking to take if it's nineteen through twenty four if they do make the playoffs? And how much of a gap is there between picks nine

through eleven or nineteen through twenty four? And we'll start with Bucky on this one. You know, it's funny because I think, just giving the issues at cornerback, I think you have to take a cornerback if it's available, because I think the coverage can really impact the way the Cowboys play. We just went through the list of names.

Caleb Farley is going to be in conversation. I think J. C. Horne would be in conversation in past or ten could potentially be a guy that we talk about a lot of It really though, depends on what happens with the coaching staff afterwards. If Mike Lowden is retained, then that's

a different style cornerback that we're looking at. We're looking at someone who can play like treyvon Dix, who is comfortable playing off, who has vision and can make breaks and make plays and those things and so and feeling great about the cornerback class in terms of what could be available. Where the guy Boys pick, I am fine. I just think as a matter of who is the defensive coordinator and what do they want going forward to

play that position? Dave, Yeah, I agree with Bucky completely there. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm so, I'll go for it. Yeah, I agree. I agree with Yeah, I agree with Bucky there. You know, and we need to if you're the Cowboys, you need to determine does Mike Nolan stay. I think that makes a lot of difference there. I do think like one of the guys I really like is Asante Samuel's son. I think he's a he's at a Florida State. The thing about him is he's short, you know, but man,

the feat, the ability to stay with guys. You know, Clemson went after him a little bit. He's going to compete, you know, but I think he's got all the skills. He's just short. You know. Sean Wade is a guy that you've kind of watched him in Ohio State. He plays in the slot, he plays outside, he doesn't always start, he's not always on the field. You know, there there's gonna be some questions you're gonna want to take the guy that absolutely you know, and and and Horn at

South Carolina makes a lot of sense for me. I just think there's you know, there's there's going to be levels of guys that you're kind of really like saying, Okay, what can they do? What is their skill level? You know, how will they play in our scheme? The names are gonna be there. I'll give you an example two of I absolutely in love with the linebacker from from Missouri. Uh, Nick Bolton, Okay, Nick Bolton, Yeah, Nick Bolton's a he's a He's a six foot guy, you know, but you

watch him, and he makes just as many plays. I mean, when you watch him play, he makes just as many plays as Micah Parsons does. It's just their physically look different. But that's the kind of guy with you know, with with Bolton, you know Will, if they look at a linebacker, could he be that guy that's a shorter guy, but man, he's super super productive. And you know, that's probably the types of players you're looking at right there, the ones

that Bucky and I've mentioned to you. Not surprisingly, I think it could be. I think it could be eerily similar to the conversation that we had last year. And it's so early to be trying to peg names specifically. But you know, the Cowboys, obviously they got super lucky with the CD Lamb situation if they hadn't drafted Lamb. Now you're talking about maybe taking Trayvon Diggs, who they got in the second round. Obviously Calvan Chason is the

other guy. Now you're talking about guys that you hope, you know, more so than being great college players, you're talking about guys that you hope can grow into that and that you know Bucky. Bucky said in the first segment, like I'm not in love with this edge rusher class. No, but but but you know, some edge rushers are gonna get taken in the first round, so I know, I know, Kyle. We have a question about the Miami edge rushers, so

we can get to that. But maybe if you're picking at fifteen sixteen nineteen, maybe you're talking about a guy like a Gregory Rousseau or Jalen Phillips out of Miami or Carlos Fashim, because I mean, those are those are the types of guys that are available when you're picking.

There are typically and not universally obviously because you've got Ceede Lamb, but you have to at least embrace the possibility that you're taking a guy who you're hoping can develop into a better player than what he was in college. I liked that a lot, and we're gonna get to that Miami question here in a little bit. But I wanted to go to the guy that Brian was talking about in Asante Samuel five ten, one hundred and eighty

four pounds out of Florida State. I mean, the notes that I had on his film was he gets his hand on the football. I mean it seems like he just finds a way to be in the right spot. He's got good movement, good goes to both sides of the formation. And then also nine PBUs in each of the last two seasons, and that was a season this year that he opted out of the final month of the regular season for Florida State. So this is a guy who, once again we kind of talk about the

traits versus the production. He's a production guy and he's been there, whereas the traits haven't necessarily been there. But it also kind of depends on the type of corner that you're looking at there. Brian, Yeah, this kid, I mean when you talk these some of these corners are coming in and Bucky talked about this a couple of shows ago. There's some of these corners that were converted wide receivers. And you know, this kid, Samuel, he from

the crib to the field. He was born to play a cornerback, you know, and you know, his dad was one of the most competitive guys i'd ever you know, we talk about Antoine Winfield and what he's done, and you know his son and all that. This kid's got the same kind of makeup as his old man. And I the quickness the footwork, the way he gets at the way he plays with his eyes, the way he doesn't let eyes get away from him. The only thing

is he's short. He is he's going to measure five ten and I'm sorry, but you watch him play, He's got some special traits to him. And I think that people will ding him because of his his height. But if you watch the tape, you'll be impressed by him, you know. Brian, I think you bring up a couple of points. One we always talk about in the scouting industry the family business, and sometimes when we talk about bloodlines, is this the family business? Is this what this family does?

And so when you talk about Asante Samuel Junior going from the carib to the field and his dad being such a prolific player in terms of the way that he played with instincts and awareness and those things, you wonder was he able to pass those things down? Cale you pointed out production and how it matters, and I think it's really important that as we continue to have these conversations about the cornerbacks and others, that we understand

the different types of production. If we're going to continue to play a zone scheme where Mike Nolans pot really an emphasis on turnovers, then we have to check the background and see does this guy have a long history of getting his hands on the ball and turning it over because of not. It's kind of like the Brian Jones conversation Byan Jones is a terrific man cover guy, but you can't expect guys who always have their back to the ball to also get a bunch of interceptions.

And so you see PBUs as opposed to interceptions. And so as we become to narrow the focus in terms of fit and scheme, finding the right corners who have the production that really fits what this scheme wants to bear. So let's let's go from corner to ad drusher because I think that's where even in this conversation Bucky, you're gonna see traits versus production. And this is a question for Bluff City Cowboys on Twitter, and they tweeted and said,

who is the better defensive end from Miami? Greg Russo? Who is? I guess? Throughout the season has been tapped as a top fifteen prospect but opted out of twenty twenty, which gave way to Jaylen Phillips, who had a fantastic twenty twenty has really shown up here in this season. He at the time, and then his question said, I personally like Phillips a lot more. We'll start with Dave on this one because you brought it up initially, but then we'll go to Bucky and Brian will close this

out on this. But I like Phillips more as well if based off of what I had seen. I know Jeff Cavanaugh would agree with that as well. But what do you think about these guys? I actually I spent my morning with watching Phillips, so thank you for the heads up that we were going to talk about him. I mean, just from from just from what I saw, and this shouldn't be surprising for you know, a rising college player who's really had one season in the spotlight. I didn't see a lot of power, but I was

impressed by his speed and his footwork. You know, it didn't seem like he got a lot of push if the tackle got his hands on him, but he's got the speed to get around him, he's got the moves to get inside of him. I liked what I saw. And then the big for me, which we've talked about this a few times, already this year on the show. I you know, Russeau hasn't played. Rousseau played last year. He didn't. He hasn't put any stuff on tape this season.

And I'm tempted to lean toward Phillips just because he's got games on tape that I can look at and say, this is what this guy did in October and November. And I mean that sounds harsh to Rousseau, I suppose, but he doesn't have that. So that's kind of where my head's at. Yeah, I think it's a valid point. I will say this about Rousseau because when you dig in Russeau's background, Russeau was a wide receiver who has

made the switch to being a defensive end. And he talked about Manny Diaz and those guys town that laying out of vision for how he was going to develop. And so a season ago you saw him get double digit sacks, you saw him kind of put it together without even really knowing what he's doing. And having a conversation with him earlier, he had talked about learning moves

and trying to figure out how to sequence that. Now, to your point, Dave, we haven't seen it out in real time, so we don't know how much he has improved, but our will say, and scouting your coaching staff, if you have a teacher at that defensive end, that that D line coach position, and he is able to say, Okay, I like what he is. I like the length, I like to speed in explosiveness, and if I can give him a tool or two, he can be a high

end rusher. I would lean a little more towards Rousseau because I believe his athleticism is going to be off the charts when we see him at the combine. Yeah, there's no question about this, And this is a lesson you need to be learned. They both were number fifteen, So be careful what tape you're trying to dig up because you might be watching they're both one six five and one six seven and they kind of look the same day, so you've got to be careful about that.

But you know, I leaned towards Phillips. I do understand, and talking to some folks down at Miami, they do swear by Rousseau. They mean they feel like that that he has got the best upside of the two and uh, but I I tend just watch him and maybe it's because of you know, seeing it this year or seeing

it you know live, you know, or not live. But you know, currently I just feel like that there's a there's just a better I have a better feel for Phillips's game, the way he's able to close, the way he's able to get his hands on blockers, the way he's able to control. This guy's got some foot quickness to him. You know. I always saw one play where I felt like that he was in really bad shape

and it resulted in a touchdown. But other than that, the guy could change directions, he could get back on plays. You know, he doesn't play like a tall guy. He plays like a guy that's you know, is a is a is a compact guy. But he's got that movement, that quickness to him and stuff. But man, this this

is where I struggled. These Miami guys. I struggled. These are two, as they say the scouting word world, these are two boom or busp project or not projects or prospects, you know, because you could hit big on either one of these guys, or then it could be a whole nother situation where you're looking at yourself and like, man, the vision we had for those guys doesn't match how they play in the NFL. I love the link from Rousseau. I mean six to seven uses his wingspan really well.

The one thing about Jalen Phillips, there's a couple of things on him. Actually, One, he struggled with some ankle and wrist injuries in the past that forced him to miss over half of his potential games. Also, not to mention, he almost retired from football with these injury issues before he transferred from UCLA. He ended up going from UCLA to Miami couldn't play in twenty nineteen because of the eligibility. That's when Rousseau shine and then when Phillips came in

and Rousseau opted out, it allowed Phillips to shine. So there's that back and forth. Really kind of a cool story. Whenever you talk about the comeback from Phillips, the the potential from Gregory Rousseau. I think this is gonna be a back and forth conversation we're gonna have really until Draft A honestly, and maybe even after depending on where

these two guys go. But this is something that I was kind of on early on and wanted to get you guys involved with in talking about because this is something that I struggled with too, Brian, I don't know which one I like more, and I think it changes every couple of days. But we're gonna have to step aside.

We're going a little bit long here. When we come back, we'll talk about the early makeup of this class and kind of some more about the trait versus potential aspect of some of the top prospects in the twenty twenty one draft class. When we return here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show, We're back in a tasty treat that's sweeping airwaves and taste buds. It's new Doctor Pepper and cream Soda. Let's take a listen, Doctor cream Soda. Is he a newcombone that's music to my ears? Okay,

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and nationwide. Switch to AT and T five G. It's not complicated. Five G requires compatible plant may not be in your area see att dot com slash five G for you for details. Is the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Final couple seconds here of the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show not gonna waste any time because I'm going to try and get this question in there.

We're gonna save a lot of what we had planned today for the next show at these guys, because I really want to kind of give some time to talk about the measurables and how really that kind of plays into finding the perfect kind of draft prospect. These guys could potentially be on as soon as Tuesday, depending on the Cowboys playoff abilities coming up this weekend, So lots of TBD with the draft show. But before we close things out, Christian asked, compare this upcoming draft class to

last year's class. How do they stack up against each other? And it seems like more of a strong offensive class than a defensive class. Brian, what do you think about that? You know, he's absolutely right the question. I mean, every of the top fifty guys that I've watched so far, it's a very offensive heavy draft. These quarterbacks will are going to anchor this thing, and then you got to

figure out these offensive tackles. These receivers. I think that you're gonna you're gonna couple of running backs in there. We're talking about questions at defensive end. We're talking about questions and defensive tackle. There's some questions. It's a little bit at safety corner. I mean, it's clearly an offensive draft at least early until you figure out these other

defensive guys. Yeah, Bryan hit a nail on the head, like it's very offensive heavy, and I think what we've seen is we're just seeing the trickle up all these guys in high school playing offense and kind of going up in the defensive guys are kind of the leftovers of the cast offs, and so with this draft class, I think we're strong at cornerback, but really that's really the strongest position because the questions at pass rusher are plenty.

You don't have a dominant defensive talker assists at the top of the boards. Linebackers are just kind of men, and so I think you kind of have to load upon your offensive guys and then you have to have a very clear vision for what you want defensively to find the guys that fit that and are drafted at the right place, so your expectations aren't out of line

with what their ability is. If you it's actually kind of funny, like if you just look at the positional breakdown, I feel like the strength at least at the top of this draft look kind of similar to last year.

Like you're talking about maybe four quarterbacks that go in the first round, maybe a fifth, but like four that you feel pretty confident about, a lot of pass catchers that you're excited about, whether it's Chase Smith, will throw Kyle Pitts in there because he's basically a receiver anyway.

And then you know, if there's a defensive strength in this draft, you know, last year they had Chase Young, which that's a huge difference, but other than that, you would probably say cornerback is the strength defensively, and then you got a whole bunch of offensive tackles that you feel really good about. I think the talent level last year looks more impressive to me right now, But I think a big part of that is also we haven't gotten to see some of the absolute best players from

this class play. I mean, how much different would we feel about this class if Gregory Rousseau had played a whole season, or you know, if Jamar Chase had played, or you know, any number of these really talented guys that opted to sit out. I think we'd probably be a little bit more excited if we had ten eleven

games of Caleb Farley tape. So I'm not ready to say that it's drastically worse than last year, but I do think it's funny that, you know, the strengths are kind of similar when you just look at it in terms of position. That perception is everything, and right now, the perception is off of twenty nineteen tape for a lot of these top prospects in twenty twenty, it's still kind of up in the air. That's a really good point, Dave, and I think that's something we might have to bring

back up in a different edition of the show. But that is going to do it for us today here on the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. Thanks to everybody tuning in, whether you're listening live or you're listening on the podcast, Dad, be sure to join these guys either next Tuesday or two tuesdays from now. It'll be interesting to see depending on the Cowboys making the playoffs, because if the Cowboys do not make the playoffs or they are eliminated. Will have two draft shows starting next week.

This group will be on Tuesdays, then Kate, Jeff Cavanaugh and Dave Brugler will be on Thursday. Lots of fun still to be had as there's one hundred and twenty days till the NFL Draft. But for Chris Beam, for Brian broad Us for Bucky Brooks, and David Hellman up Kyle Yomen saying so long, thanks for listening to the Dallas Cowboys dot Com Draft Show. This has been a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club