Draft Show: 1 Week 'Til Draft Day

brought us here with Dane Brugler. David Hellman will join us here in a little bit and he's doing some TV work. Dane, Nice to have you back with us today, special episode, Today a special guest, special guest, and I'm gonna introduce the special guests. And he's really a man that really doesn't need an introduction, but he deserves that honor. Uh.

You know, he's a Hall of Fame voter. He's one of the most respected to writers covering the National Football League, and he's a pillar of how the NFL Draft is now consumed by fans through the media and uh and really and one of the most important things. He's one of the major reasons why DeMarcus Ware was drafted to the Dallas Cowboys. You could check out all his fine work with really one of my favorite sites because the interviews and stuff they do. The Talk of Fame Network,

it's Rick Goslin. Rick, welcome to the Draft show pleasure. Yeah, Steam company here. Yeah, well, no, we really do appreciate you being here. And you know, and I you know, and I've my my experienced Dane, I know that you've you've been working, you know, through this draft. My experience with Rick goes all the way back into the early nineties as one of the first when I was working with the Green Bay Packers. You know, it was his top one hundred that we use to conduct our own

mock drafts. We didn't use our own boards, we use this man's sports one of the most connected writers, and I would be I would be proud to scout with him, you know, any day. The connections that he has and the eye that he has for players at thirty thirteen. Yeah, and there's always always make this joke about Dane talks about his mock drafts and the goal was always to beat you. And he said he got the T shirt

one year for taking you down. I think it's like two thousand and nine, one of those years, I mean before I really started getting into this. I mean that was that was a prize possession that I beat. The Goose T shirt it's an extra ard, so I can never wear it, but I still have it at home. Okay. In a twenty eleven draft, it's my last mock draft. Yeah, and I was the only guy in America had all those quarterbacks up high, right. We didn't give out any

T shirts. That yeah, T shirts, that's yeah, ponder, yeah exactly. But it's it's such an honor to have you here, Rick, and and and I want I have to get you to tell the story, you know, as we get started here. And I mentioned it in the introduction of you about the Marcus ware. And I also want to get into this take. We're gonna have you like our normal day. I do want to pick Rick's brain about He's got a you know, his his list of guys, and he's learning these players like we are. I want to get

his take on this. I want to also talk about two a little bit, the media and the draft. You know, when who to trust who not to trust, not specifically names, but when when do you start figuring out like, Okay, these guys, this is what I need to believe in because we play a big role in that. I think we influence people in the direction that the draft might go. And you know, and I learned it firsthand last year with my talk thought about Joey Bosa. You know, I

was very critical of Joey Bosa. I think I've influenced No, I don't think. I know I influenced a lot of Dallas Cowboy fans not to really fall in love with Joey Bosa, you know, Whereas on the other hand, you were very positive about Joey Bosa and you're like, well, Brian, you need to think about So I want to get into that about how our influence in the draft. But I do want to get into some of these players.

We're gonna do some Twitter on the twenty two. I want fans to have the opportunity to ask you guys some questions about the draft coming up, and then I could say the final segment we're not going to do tell me more. But again, I want to get into just some more thoughts about players, specifically where you might think that some of these guys that we've got some risers,

we've got some guys that are falling. I heard today the Tackle Bowls from Utah a lot of people going south on him because of some of the off the field stuff and all that. So I just need to kind of think that through. But before we really get started, though, Rick, I want you to tell the fans out there the story of how and I also set up the story. Rick, like I say, one of the most outstanding draft guys.

He's got all these these general managers and coaches and owners, people that talk to him and give him inside He's tremendous a protecting his sources though, but giving you reasons why they will or will not take guys. But my experience with Rick was with the Marcus Ware in the two thousand and five draft, and we had we had sewn Merriman and De Marcus Ware as a tie really on our board with a grade of one. Oh and Bill Parcels wanted was looking at Merriman. He really, really,

he was battling the scouts on Merriman. And but I want to I had a conversation with you the night before the draft, and really the Merriman Ware decision did not come down until Rick talked to Jerry Jones the next morning, so kind of tell the story. I set up the story, but talk about how that all came about the night before the draft, when you were actually sitting in New York City waiting on the draft, and I was I was always going to New York City to cover the draft, and my final mock came out

in the morning of the draft. So I'd get to New York about eleven o'clock and then I would spend the next five hours doing my final mock. I always did three mocks. The first was based on my board, second was based on Team Mead, and the only month that matter was the last one right where all the good stuff went in. So I'd spend five or six hours and making a couple of final calls, and then i'd have people about six o'clock. People figured out that's what I had it done, and I get calls from

gms and coaches, they will give me your mock. Yeah. And I would talk to a lot of GMS and coaches on Friday, on the night before the direct right and tell them there was always something I did. I know. I know his time was very precious and I felt always privileged to be able to talk to you. It might be at one in the morning, but we were talking. Yeah, and I had I called Jerry on it because I knew they were looking at these two guys. And I said,

let me, let me read you this. And I when I do my reports, my studies and these players, I'll talk to maybe twenty five people, be they scouts, coaches, personal doctors, GM's, head coaches, whatever, and they would give me comments and I would keep track of all the comments, taking notes as you're going along. And okay, so Jerry, let me read you these two things. And I read him DeMarcus Ware, and I read him Sean Merrin and Merriman and these were each each guy had twenty twenty

five comments. And basically the point is, if you draft Marcus Ware, he will become a Pro Bowl player and he'll be a good citizen for the next ten years. Right. If you draft Sean Merriman, he'll be a Pro Bowl player. But the first time he's a Pro Bowl player, you got a problem. Yeah, because he's going to go. He thinks he's better than he is, right, And he and I, you know, kind of hashed that thing out, and what I'm told that kind of been bold in him. No,

that didn't. Kind of that got it done because the next day Parcels was brought in with Stephen and that's when the decision was made. We didn't know which way that Jerry was going to go. And the last conversation he had was with Rick Goslin that night, the night before and they met with Parcels and we were all sitting in the draft room waiting for the draft to

kick off. We had the eleventh pick that to start the day, and and you knew right then and there something was going to happen because Bill got called out of the draft meeting or out of the war room into a side office to talk about this, and Jerry came back with smiles. Stephen came back with smiles. Bill Parcels did not come back with a smile. And then Jerry made the announcement that we're gonna go with We're

going with where? And I guarantee it. The last conversation he had was with Rick gos and I said that before and I believe it was that meeting. And this is where we talk about how the media can sway and you know, and let me ask you guys, this though is too and I after I make the statement, though, I really I believe in my heart that the reason why he the Marcus ware was here was because of Ricksmas,

you know. And that just shows you though, with somebody that connected to the draft, to general managers, to coaches, you know, people decision makers, the information was credible, yes, right, Yeah that I never watched any tape. I didn't. I was a writer, I wasn't a scout, right, So what I did was talk to the people that do watch tape, right, that do make the decisions, and they give me and that they know that I'm I was great at protecting my sources, absolutely, and it was a given take often.

You know, when I was doing my my my position board, I'll call up a receiver coach, I says, okay, here's my top fifteen, and we go through and eat to move that guy, that guy down. They knew they would get as much as I take there, right, They would said, why do you have him as your tenth wide receiver? Yeah? And that would And I know I'm responsible in a lot of builds for players that were taken. Yeah, deep snappers, wide receivers based on information I've had. I had teams

during the Hey day. They called me when they were on the clock. Yeah, what do you have And you're sitting in New York, You're sitting at the at the Radio City Music Hall. What do you take your calls? Is there anything on this guy that we should know about? Yeah, and I've had you know, but but the information was credible.

It wasn't my opinion. It was like Dane said, a lot of people consider me the thirty third team, right because I was the only guy in the league that was talking to all thirty two teams, right, and everybody everybody trusted you. Yeah. Yeah, so they use me as as a resource. This is this is the consensus board. You know, you have your board, the Patriots have there as cool sad, there's this is the consensus board. Yeah, you know it's and I talk about using his top

one hundred. I'll never forget like guys like Jerry Jerry Junior walking in with his top one hundred and looking at our board and then looking at and looking at our board and looking at his top one hundred, and then the conversation would be, well, Goose has got him here. Goose has got him here, and you know, and everyone would get bent out of shape but me because I

understood that Goose probably had it right. Yeah, you know, that's the thing that I was always kind of you know, but we would use his top one hundred as our mock because you never wanted to use your own board. Because you could set it up. You could say, okay, well let's manipulate it so our guys fall to us. You take his top one hundred, then you had a way of saying it. I used to pass out there. I used to pass out his top one hundred with

the team needs, with everybody's team needs. And like Walter, Julia, if okay, Walter, you're the NFC North, You've got every time Green Bay, Detroit, Chicago, and then and they pick you get you pick a player for them. But we're going off his board. We're going off his top one hundred, and we're going off the team needs that we had. So that's great information. I mean, when it comes to

the draft, information is power. Yeah, and that type of information having an understanding of how you know, because these teams obviously know these players, but having an understanding of how other teams view players helps, yeah, evaluation and to the value, where do you take them? Who might be available? For you. So yeah, it's I'll give you another I'll give you another example. Welcome David Hellman TV TV work today.

I was actually late to the show because I was doing a seven round mock on one of our TV show. We'll get into your seven round mock that because we can do that. I made I made a call on that war draft in oh five because of him, Because of Rick Goslins, what he told me about what Minnesota and Cincinnati were gonna do ahead of me. This the thought, hey, they potentially could be because Bill Parcels, they were looking at looking at we were looking at Marcus Spears yeah

at twenty and Bill wanted Marcus Spears man. Man, he wanted Marcus Spears at eleven. Yeah, And so all of a sudden it was like, okay, well let's figure out how to get Marcus Spears here. And Bill and Jerry, Jerry looked at me and goes, is there anybody that could take a defensive end? Before twenty and I had had a conversation with Rick about potentially some teams because I wanted to know. My job was to know. He says,

you got to watch Cincinnati and you gotta watch Minnesota. Yeah, and with some just some gut not not fearing where my information was coming from. I said, worry about Cincinnati and Minnesota. Sure enough, they took David Pollock at Cincinnati, they took Erasmus James at Minnesota. Right, that man right there made me look pretty damn good. Yeah, you know, because he had an idea. That's what you talk about.

And I want to get into that though. Do teams Do teams use the media though in the right way? Do you think? Do you think or does is it now where it's about being teams use the media in a wrong way where they try and and maybe take a Todd McShay this way, or take a Dane Brugler this way, or take a Brian Broadest this way. Do you think the media now it is it about using the media the right way? Or do you think they're

used as detours? It goes both ways. And I think that's where you have to trust the evaluator and who's communicating the info, because out of all the information I hear, I probably talk publicly about ten percent of it. Yeah, just because I worry about you know, that doesn't really sound true, or you know, and whether and where you're getting the information from um, you know, agents and different teams. You know, I talked about how Trubisky is possible at three. Yeah, well,

i'll tell you what. I'm doing some research and you threw that out there very early. And that's a that's a that's a well, a nugget, and that's a nugget right from one place. And then I checked with a scout that I trust, and he said, that's what we're expecting. Yeah, And okay, well I trust. I mean, that's a scout. That's what he's told me. The pass has panned out, so I have no I feel okay putting that out there now. It might not turn out to be right.

But I the information that I know personally that I can speak of that I put out there. I only put out what I think is credible. I don't just throw whatever out there where I can't say the same for a lot of people in this, you know, in the draft business. Yeah, that's that's why they're called the mock drafts. Yeah. The people that are drafting are talking. You know, the people that are putting the mock drafts are telling you what they think. It's not what the

teams are thinking. Yeah. Again, that's why they're called mock drafts. But you can, i mean follow along with draft Twitter and you can kind of parse that out between who is relaying credible information and the what do I want to say, the frequency with which you put that stuff out. I think, you know, I'm trusting it way more from somebody who like every Maybe it doesn't happen all the time, but whenever you say it, it it pans out as opposed to people who are just throwing stuff left and right,

which you see around this time of year. Right, you're gonna hit on one of those things, and so you know, you can remind people of how you hit on that one thing, but it's the all the things you got wrong.

And really, this to me, this final week is probably the time I dislike the most about the draft process because there is so much misinformation out there, and you know, I'm not sure that many people guard the information, you know, like like Rick, and you know, I mean, some people, like we said, just kind of throw whatever they hear out there, and a lot of it's just not credible and a lot of it's misinformation and what teams want out there, and so it's a it's a week that

we're gonna hear a lot of noise, and you just have to kind of weed through the you know, you have to have your BS meter up. Yeah, understand what's what's credible and what's not. But that's this is smoke week. This is there's a lot of smoke out there. But this is what I was doing, the mocks and the boards and next I never read anybody. I avoided all mock drafts, avoid all top parts because what I knew

what I had was credible. I didn't want to be swayed by something that was incredible, so I didn't look at it, Bucks Bomb or anybody else until after the draft see what they had going. Yeah, I think, to me, though, that that that's I think we're we're to me, the initial thoughts that people have about these players that we're hearing are the right ones. And then it's the closer we get to the draft, then it becomes harder and harder and harder to really believe what people are saying.

I woke up this morning to reports that Josh Dobbs is going to be a round Picks, So just yeah, it's kind of it reminds it's like when your favorite band becomes really popular and like everybody in the world's talking about him, you know, like when you've known it all along, we were talking about this in December and January. Right now you just kind of got a deal with this five days of craziness. It's not I mean it's fun though. Well I think it mentioned it, you know,

a couple months ago. But if there was one player in this draft, he would be compared to Dak Prescott, you know, the next Dak Prescott. I thought it'd be Dabbs, I thought, and I think that's your initial thought about him, the Tennessee quarterback, right, I mean I think he's I mean, you like love the physical skills, uh, you know, the intelligence. I mean you meet with him for five minutes and you love him. Yeah, he's a kid, that's the NASA guy,

right right, I mean the aerospace aerodynamics. But when you talk about when you watch the film and accuracy, the decision making, it's all over the ball flight not good, right, And so it's I would have a tough time seeing him go in the in the first round, but I do think someone will, you know, take a chance roll the dice in the third which is still higher than I think and what do you think of the Colorado quarterback Cifo. Uh, he's gutsie see a lot of Kaepernick

with you know, just the play style, kind of a slinger. Yeah, I mean he is, he's got a good enough arm. Uh. I don't know that he had the senior year that he needed to have. You know, people will forget that Davis Webb was almost at Colorado. Uh, you know they graduate transfer from Texas Tech, was close to going to Colorado, last second change goes to cal But it kind of tells you what they thought of their quarterback situation at Colorado. But Cifo had had the senior season he needed, he

hasn't been able to stay healthy him. He's a tough son of a gun. I watched that Michigan game and he got he got about broke him in half, and he kept trying to play. To his credit and he's a big reason why Colorado had had such a great season this year after last decade in the basement. So uh, he's say Mike McIntyre's job. Yeah, he really did them in that those corners. He fits one of my favorite profiles when I was looking at quarterbacks. Give me a

four year starter that through thirteen sixteen hundred passes. Those giant guys generally make it in this league. You know, some of them, you know, become Carson Palmer, some of them become good south backus. But if the guy's a four year starter in a Power five conference and he st the scene, everything in college game is thrown at him, he's generally gonna have a chance to be successful the next level. So then Trubisky then would not be on

your radar one year guy. That concerns me. See that happened with Ryan Leaf, and I go all the way. I going back to Ryan Leaf had a tremendous senior season at Washington State in ninety eight, and so you're trying to compare him in Manning. And I remember because because Sean Payton at the time we were working with Philly. Sean was like Adam and like, no, not Manny, take Manning. If you're gonna take a guy, take Manning. The other guy is just a one year guy. And here's Sean.

He's a young young coach at the time, and he was absolutely right. Well to that point, there's only been two quarterbacks strapped in the first round in the since nineteen seventy with only one year of starting experience at the college level. That's Cam Newton, who obviously had some juco experience, right, and then Mark Sanchez who at the one year at USC and came out and was at the top five pick. But it doesn't happen often. I mean,

so there's something too that this is this. I talked to Seth Latruelle, the North Texas coach who was the offensive quarter North guy. He loved Trubisky, but they had a kid there who was setting the school records for touchdownd production market. Mark was more of an option type guy with legs and this guy they would have had changed to change the offense to go with Trubisky. But he absolutely loved Trubisky. But just the one years that's

tough for me overcome. You find, like when you talk to people though, that gives some pause when you when you visit with you know, if you have a chance to visit with quarterback coaches or or offensive coordinators, does that get does that scare them or do they just nah? The talents there, the talents too too good to pass up here. I mean just kind of like I said, it's just a small sample size. Of first round quarterbacks

that have had only one season of story. Yeah, you said, just two guys, right, So it's something we don't see a lot and so I think there are a lot of I think a lot of teams. They're obviously it's not ideal, No one thinks it's ideal. But how do you measure that? You know, how do you factor that into his value? About how early you'd you know, be willing to take him because you watch him and he doesn't have a fatal flaw in his traits, at least

in my opinion. You know, he might not be elite and he doesn't have that huge ceiling, but I think he could be Andy Dalton plus, you know, with what he brings, but he doesn't have the resume that ideally you want a quarterback you're considering top ten like and like I said, I think he's going top ten. Uh, you know, whether it's at three to Chicago, we see a trade up Jets at six, Buffalo at ten, whatever, But I do think Trubisky will be a top ten pick.

That's interesting because I'm kind of I wonder in circles if coaches are more scared of Trubisky or more scared of the kid at tech. Yeah, with his with with you know, Mahomes, with things being all over the place technique wise, I mean, which one you got to gamble on? You gonna gamble on the one year guy or you're gonna gamble on the guy who's been a starter but man, his technique and you know year. Those two compared a lot because like Trubisky, but were first round guys one.

But yeah, you're right, And it's really interesting because you think of Trubisky as like a surefire top ten whereas Mahomes is like a twenty to thirty two. So I like I I don't think about them even in the same conversation that often. But it is interesting, and honestly I feel crazy saying this, but like I think I'd feel better about drafting Mahomes than Trubisky. I mean, well, you're going with a better upside, better upside and the less valuable pick because I don't have to take Mahomes

in the top ten. Well, depends how you talk to the Mahomes talk is that's the rails, that's fair about what about the crazy quarterback Rick? What about the guy that has the technique that's all over the place. I mean that you you're really not sure what we mean. You see you see production, but you're like, man, can I can he can that translate into I mean, I think there's some things about Trubisky. You're right, he seems very polished in the way he plays, only played thirteen games.

Mahomes is just Mahomes reminds me of far in the way the balls going him, or Cutler or any one of those guys. You want to say, is the crazy wing it around guys? You know? I mean, I just wonder what teams Unfortunately, when you draft the guy, you got to play the guy. Yeah. Carson Palmer was a four year starter through for fifteen hundred passes. Philip Rivers four year starter through for six yard pass Yeah. Both of those guys didn't play. They didn't start a game.

They threw a fewer than ten passes in the rookie years. That's what you really need. But when you draft a guy in today's NFL, if you take your biscuit three, he's your opening day starter and you can't have to live with all the mistakes. And that the problem a guy with your biscuits, he hasn't seen everything in college game can throw at him? Right, watch less when you dial it up ten times to get with these NFL

device coordinator. Let me ask you something in didn't he we're talking about quarterbacks, this is incredible, but the one position, Yeah, don't. But I think it's an interesting conversation. And I know we're got to get to Twitter on the twenty here a little bit, just but I want to finish this one then, would you? But you talk about everything the college game is thrown at him? How about Watson in? Because you look at the production, we all we all agree.

I don't know about Rick. I know I know this would be me. If I'm watching I'm watching the Alabama game, I'm watching it, I'm watching him. I'm watching the two Alabama games. I'm watching Ohio State games. I'm watching those games with guys I think to play damn good defense that got first round talent playing defense across from him. If he's moving the ball on those cats. When you've got a guy like you know, when you have a guy like Nick Saban over there, we're twirling the defense.

See to me, That's where I look at that and say, Okay, this guy has a chance to have success. If I was making the call for a team that like it's Watson and then everybody else is like significantly and I don't care about the mechanics or any of that. Like, he's a winner. He's got that Dak Prescott type of like magnetic leadership, personality, charisma, whatever you want to call it. He's done it against the best repeatedly. He took a program that had had trouble getting over the hump and

put them on the mountaintop. Like, I'll take all of that over whatever he needs to work on in terms of like reading the field and stuff, that's where I would start. That's who I wouldn't want leading my team. Can't dispute the resume. I mean, he's he's a winner. There's nothing, there's nothing you can say about that. My biggest issue with Watson is Kenny consistently went from the pocket and in the NFL you have to do that, and I don't think we saw that enough or at

least on a consistent level at Clemson. And look, I think Deshaun Watson at some point in the first round. Yes, I would draft him. I have him behind Traubisky and Kaiser for me personally, but I get everything you said is right. I mean, nothing you said was get my boy Watson up there to your team in Berea with the offensive line they just invested in. Pick him twelve, get him a running back like he'll be fine. Let me ask you the reason I'm glad we're having this

quarterback conversation Cowboys. If the Cowboys are interested in trading back, we all agree that there has to be probably a there has to be a quarterback on the board that's somebody like it couldn't make sense. Yeah, is that the easiest route for the Cowboys to get a trade back situation? Right? Or a tackle? I thought offensive tackle too, I thought, but the quarterback would be the number one backs or

went spur trades. Okay, the quarterbacks we talked about, Is there a chance that one of those guys is there at twenty eight to get somebody to drive up to take that Pickfterbacks are always over draft. Yeah, exactly surprised. I mean, so you're saying they're gonna have to probably sit if you don't see a quarterback going, I mean, you don't see a quarterback getting I think there'll be three quarterbacks and go. I think quarter quarterbacks are like that.

Twenty eleven drafts. Jake Locker wasn't a first round pick. He was eight pick the draft. If he hadn't have a quarterback. You can't stop looking at See. I'm trying to figure out a way that Dallas can die, that they need to die. Who's picking before Dallas right now? Kansas sit at twenty seven exactly, and I think that's to me. Course, he's a wild card. He is, and I think that's kind of maybe a I think he's that Kansas city at twenty seven. It might be a

floor for some of these quarterbacks. If my homes would reach that point, I think that would make some sense. Same thing with Watson. So I think there are three quarterbacks that will go ahead of pick twenty eight. I think I think Reid would say some uh yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think John Dorsey, he was with the Packers, he's no, no, you're right, rector of Scout. He's a nut. I got your you gotta worry about. I think the Giants are consideration twenty three and uh and I'm just

in at twenty five. He's been parading quarterbacks. See, I was just again, I'm glad we had this conversation because now, I think the listeners have an idea. If you think three, you're gonna go, there's a possibility Dallas is going to be set to sit there at twenty eight. Nobody would have dreamed that Teddy Bridgewater would fall as far as he did. I don't. I mean most people, your best quarterback, Yeah, somebody, somebody will be there. Whether I would guess Kaiser or Mahomes,

I bet you one of those two. If I like, I'm Kaiser drive that train, it's possible. I think he's more likely in a second. But just based on what we're hearing, I think that if I had to do my final MOK right now, I say Trabisky's top ten. Right now, I'm leaning towards Watson at thirteen Arizona. I think they really like him, and I think I think

he's a teen's gay. Yeah, like I would feel better with Watson at fifteen that I would risk get three or yeah, yeah, And I think, okay, I like that, And I think we have Mahomes somewhere at twenty three at the Giant Giant there's that minefield when he's seven to Casey, I don't think he gets past that. So and then at twenty eight, you have to worry about. Okay, who's the next team that would want a quarterback? New Orleans at thirty two? Yeah, so could a team how

about if Cleveland doesn't take win at twelve? Could Cleveland or San Francisco or See, That's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get us a spot to dive, and I'm trying to think. I think it has to be a quarterback there. I would think that if four quarterbacks go, there's gonna be a better group of defensive players sitting there. Yeah, I'm the Cowboys. I want all those quarterbacks to go. I want four good players. Okay, you're taking the approach,

you're gonna sit. You're not interested. I want I want the best defensive player. I got you, Pass Rusher, I got you. It's a fair point. All right, Good enough, Thank you guys. That conversation. We're gonna take a break. We come back. We're gonna get into a little Twitter. On the twenty stay two, with unlimited data from AT and T, you can stream your favorite direct TV content

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talk about the draft. The upcoming draft A week from today. A couple of things need to also get into ken if we can get a shot here as always, Dame Burglar has the Beast. You have about another week to get a copy of this. This is all you think, this is really this in our Star magazine are the only two things I think you really need going into this draft coverage that we're going to have for you next week the three days. So Dan kind of talk to folks without how they can get the Beast. It's

check me out on Twitter at dp Brugler. I have a link pin at the top and it's an automatic PDF download. Some people, uh and a lot of people love printed out themselves and buying it and they have it, yeah, right in front of them as a resource on draft. And that's what you need to look at it as as a resource. So you know, even after the first second round, six seventh round, when you know you don't you know, you don't know these guys that are drafted, just turn to the page in the in the in

the Beast. Hopefully it gives you everything you know absolutely in the name pronunciation, yeah, the whole, all the all the birthday president yea, all combine information to all the combine numbers right there, I can verify that this is also too. Uh, Dallas Cowboys dot comis is our star magazine. Uh, shop Cowboys, you can get this guy too. We can send it out to you. Uh. It's a great way again. Stories in there. Dane Burglar helped us with it with

some comparisons. There's like one hundred and ten players of written reports and then there's also some player comparisons, some stories. Things you need to know. But if you have the Beast and then our Star magazine here, you will be completely ready to go. Okay, David, I always encourage folks. One of my favorite sections, our favorite things we do it is called Twitter on the Twitter and uh, we encourage everybody fire in their questions for the panel and

we'll do our best answer. Question. Yeah, we got some good ones. Goose previewing this as smoke Week because that's the type of stuff that we're starting to heart. What I didn't Wow, I wouldn't even talk about that. But yes, thank you, Brian. Um, I'm not even gonna touch that. Alan, Alan, you get away with it. Alan wants to know what the likelihood is we're starting to hear these types of things what's the likelihood that Derek Barnett falls into the

Cowboys range? Okay, I feel like you're starting to hear people that well Man, people don't love him as much as maybe you think maybe Charles Harris goes ahead of Derek Barnett. Well, I think that's possible. Yeah, but I still don't think that he falls outside of the top twenty. I mean, what by range do you mean possible trade up? He actually Alan said twenty eight. I don't think that's doable, but maybe maybe twenty if he gets around twenty two,

twenty three, twenty four. Yeah, I mean I don't think it. I don't think it'll happen. But the fact that Barnett has not worked out well, um, and I think that was expected. He's not expected to be a big tester, a great tester. But I mean thirty three sacks in the SEC and he broke record. Yeah, I mean the pass rush savvy that he brings. I just have a hard time believing he falls out of top twenty. Rick, what's your experience about these defensive ends. Yes, Russias don't

slide exactly when the run starts. If if Thomas goes high and that run starts, they're gonna go quickly. There have been In two thousand and eleven there were thirteen front seven pass right type players that went yeah, and then one year and uh three, three, ten, thirteen, fifteen, sixteen, twenty six, twenty eight. I mean there could be seven pass rushers gone yeah before the Cowboys going o'clock, and then do you take the eighth pass rusher? He's take

a third corner. Yeah, that's that's gonna be. That's that's how a cornerback winds up on this team at twenty eight. Well, I'll tell you what though, that maybe, like Rick was talking about, we've we've all mentioned what you know, t J Watt a bunch here, and maybe if the guy slides, we have to check on the health of Tack McKinley. You know, I'm kind of hearing some whispers that he might start on pup no guarantee or season. Yeah, no season.

It no guarantee that he will even be for the training camp or be the first six games of the season. So are you gonna go ahead if if he slides, are you gonna go ahead and take that and say, Okay, we got him for the year. But he's only going to play ten games. And that's why I think we need to talk more about Tis Bowser. UHC Houston. Yeah, Dane with the segue, smile on your face, love it. I just love natural transitions. Because we're getting here, We're

getting into crunch time. Yeah, And Jacob wants to know who do you think the Cowboys value more on their board, Kevin King or Tias Bowser warnerback from Washington or Thias Bowser the defensive end from Houston. Good question. Um, pass rush is King, obviously, it's well you said King, not just get Ron King anyway, Yeah, aside from quarterback, is the most important position on your roster, and so I guess it depends on you know, how much do you

love Bowser? Because I think we both agree Bowsers more of a second round guy. I think so. Um, but when you watch him at Houston US an outside linebacker in that three or fourth scheme, you know he was basically a Ferrari that they kept in the garage. Yeah. They did not let him get after the quarterback. They did not let him on a consistent, consistent basis he had dropped put him in the flat. I mean, just

really kind of a disservice to him. But at sixty three two hundred forty seven pounds, it's a four to sixth athlete. It just don't make guys like that because that can move. I mean, there's a good chance bowsers off the board at that point. But if he's available at twenty eight, I don't know. What do you think, Kevin King? Who? Yeah, I would think that King. But Rick, let me ask you this question. You talked about those defensive ends in your history of the draft. You know,

and you've watched this football team. You were there for all the games. Yeah, obvious problem here in the corner or star defensive end. You don't take a pass rusher there. You're not going to get anywhere near the quality at sixty. I'm gonna pass rusher. You're going to get a good cornerback at sixty. But if you pass on a pass rusher at twenty eight, there may be another seven or eight that go before you go on a clock. And now you're talking in the back of the second round.

We want the eighteenth best pass rushing his draft. Yeah, I think you can get a good quality of corner. You can probably get a good corner third round. Yeah, I think to your point, my my board that we put on for one oh five three, I think we had seventeen right ends one rounds one through seven, and then had twenty six corners rounds one through So to your point, you know, you probably want to draft that defensive end first and then turn around and try and

grab the corner second. I just don't like projects like and don't like projects of Bowser. Yeah, like he doesn't. He doesn't wow me. And I know you're picking at twenty eight, but he hasn't wow me as like a ready maid. I don't think he's not. He's he's a guy that you know, yeah right, yeah, and that's I don't. I love the idea of Kevin King just I think he's ready to go. I think he's ready to step right in there so real quick. On the Cowboys board,

you think they would go, I lean pass rush. I do, and I think that that if coach Marin only lash about those fair that's a loud voice. That's a good nugget right to push the needle strongly pass rush. I mean, I think they would do pass rush. But I'd rather have the better corner than they Okay, better to be able to cover for six seconds. I'll tell you what. I'm gonna go opposite of you guys. I'm gonna go opposite. I think they would value King more than Bowser. Okay,

that's just me. King will be a higher player in the board. Yeah, that's what I'm that's what I'm thinking. If there's stack, if there's stack, I think that King will have a higher grade. But you're right, Mary Delly carries a big stick. Is it not window dressing your board to be like, well, we pass rush as King and we need it. So let's take this guy that he's not as good as Kevin King. I'll just say that and like, right now, ready made. This guy's as good.

This guy is about that. He's about as following the board as you can right here. I know, I know my colleague here, as Rick pointed out, who you know, if if you really want an impact pass rusher, who are you gonna get in a second round and you have to you don't know that's fair. I like what you guys are saying. I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take It's a crappy situation to put yourself in if you don't get that pass rusher at twenty eight. But are the pass rushers on this team good enough that

a corner would help them? I guess that's where we have our opinions. But yeah, what they believe that this coaching staff, which way do they believe about the current personnel on the roster. Yeah, that's knowing your team. Don't make that mistake. We talked about that yesterday on on the Cowboys break. If you can't evaluate your own team, you might you can't draft and say it's the pass rush on this team is mediocre. But you're being kind. I mean they had thirty six. I think they finished

one one sack ahead of the Giants. They finished thirteenth in the league. Um, just segway there for you. Well, actually, no, not really, because he's we're not talking about pass rush here, John says. Um, other than Lattimore, who I think most people would agree will be long gone, which corner would be the most likely for you to get at twenty eight? Because we can talk all day about Kevin King, I'm

not convinced to leaven be there. No, I think he's I think after you get past Lattimore, there's two through ten you're guessing. I think there's gonna be a different order depending on what team you talk to, based on what scheme they want. Um, I think Marlon Humphrey will be high for some teams and lower for others. And so I could see him, you know, being there at about tankerusly that's another guy. Yeah, I think that's that's

to me, that's too high. He's a guy a second round he no, no, I understand, but but but but I believe based on scheme, based on schemes, somebody, somebody who's a press man scheme could say we value tankerously more than we value Tabor. Question, you know where I would take Tabor? You know, tabs, tabors in play for me, Tabor is definitely in play. And I know the pre show, Rick and we were talking about you know, you even made up the point Hayward four six one, you know

Pro Bowl corner. You know they had four six one speed coming out. I believe Vanderbilt, all right, yeah, Vanderbilt. Yeah, but again he was a second round pick because of that. Yeah, Abe will be a second round pick because of that. Malcolm Butler South or West Alabama. Yeah, he was a four six two yea Pro Day, Yeah, undrafted, So yeah, it's there are examples of corners that have run poorly. But again, one of the other reasons I kind of moved tabored down and why I think he'll be in

the second round is the interview process. It did. Yeah, you're hurting him more on the interview process and the four six one speed combination of both. I mean it's I think that it's I think he was protected by that Florida scheme, protected by some of those other players on that defense. Um, and so I do have some questions about you know, because he thrives on and he's not a technique speed guy. He thrives on instincts and you know, it just kind of the feel of the game.

And you can get burned in the NFL if you're a corner and that's what you rely on. So I like Tabor just uh, twenty eight. It is a little rich for me, but this team might disagree. The less you have of a pass rush, the more speed you needed corner. Right. Absolutely, here's a segue for you going back to the pass round show. This is something that we we've talked a lot about twenty eight, but this is not something we've talked about. Question from a real

quick Tabor at sixty. I would be surprised, but I don't think it's it's not impossible. You don't think it's you think it's possible. I think it is possible, but I would be surprised. I mean, I think it's more likely he goes somewhere top fifty mid second round. Okay, it's okay. It's a long wait to sixty. That's that's the thing I keep coming back to. Three Turkey sandwich is right there. Fifteen guys that we love are going to come off the board, like between forty and sixty. Yeah.

I think the second round is gonna be incredibly fun. Oh, I think I think it's going to be applied. Let me let me a really am question because I'm sorry it pertains to that. Okay, you're good, I promise you all right, you're in a friend of the show. Jonah, Hello, Jonah. More likely that they trade back from twenty eight or trade up from sixty, and we've seen them do that.

We've talked about the DeMarcus Lawrence trade before. Maybe you don't get your pass rusher at twenty eight and so maybe you use draft cat to get up to forty four or something. And get a better pass. Yeah. It's just told me I need to sit there at sixty and maybe get a guy. Huh. You tell me. It depends on who's who's who's dropping, who's you might have your your radar radar. I think if you can find a way to move up, uh, you know, six seven spots and give up your fourth rounder, yeah, then that's

something you consider. I mean you don't. I don't want to give up that third rounder. I think that's an NFL starter this year. Yeah, but if you can, they've done it before though, two right two is the third Yeah, yeah, I'm just for my personal opinion, I'm I'm not trading that third rounder. Uh. If I can move up you know, six seven, eight spots and give up a fourth for the right player, I should be considered. Would be reluctant to trade up this Yeah, I think you need there

are too many needs if you're one player away. I think he looks strong at trading up with. This team has too many needs and that fourth rounder last year was Dak Prescott. If I can, if I can interest you whole look at that. If I can interest you and going back and getting a four. You guys in from twenty eight, like, yeah, back, going back, it will four entice you to go back. That's not enough. I'm trading out of the first round. I want to than a four. I want a third. Yeah, I think it'd

been give you more than that. Yes, if you're moving back, okay, I'm talking about it. If you're a small, I'm a small. I went I'm going to Cleveland. I told you I was going to Cleveland, and I'm not going to jail. Hey, Sashi Brown, you've got twelve freaking picks. Give me a third rounder. I don't care if it's fair or not that you guys are billing for a four. No, I'm not giving up the fifth year option for that. Let's look at Cleveland. Cleveland's got thirty three and fifty two

and sixty five and sixty five. I want sixty five sixty five. I don't know if they give that up to move up. How many spots you're moving down trying to get I'm going down five spots, So go to Cleveland. Thirty three. What's after sixty five? Do you have that? They're picks? Yeah, one oh eight, No, give me sixty five if you want my first round. I don't think that that's the first pick in the third round. Maybe

and maybe maybe they wouldn't. But if you, I mean, let's the first pick in the third round, got sixty five, I'll tell you what pick he wants. He wants one oh eight? Is that the first pick in this and then start the second day or third day? Those first ten picks the second day? What about? Oh that's the third day? Yeah? About one to wait and get your five? Okay, you don't have a five, right, yeah, you need a five? Maybe?

I mean it is it's the first pick, and so you're gonna take it's four and five and take is four to five. Yeah, you can you take one to eight and forty five one forty five if I can get one to weight, because I think you can turn around and trade one to weight, Yeah, and get a couple, get a couple of fours. That's when I play hardball and I say, yeah, I know you're overpaying, but we like you might not get How much fun is that to start the third day with a high pick. Yeah?

That glorious. Y'all stack your board? What y'all are whimps like steam higher? No? No, I've just dream higher. I just want I just want a high pick to start the third day on a third day. Oh start. I love the third day. I used to get calls in New York from games. Give me the ten, give me the next ten players, give you the next ten players. That's and then you see trade going on. Oh you see me, because those guys are first day pick. Let

me tell you what I've seen. Guys call and offer next year's two to get one of those early fourth round picks. Okay, but you know, I mean I'll give you next years too, And I've seen no. No, we'n stand here and pick a guy before we get too far? Is this a completely unreasonable expectation, though? I mean, okay, let's say they don't get their pass rusher at twenty eight, and then Carl Lawson it's you know, he's there at like forty he's there for some reason, he's there forty six.

Or the guy Brandon Graham, your favorite player, Taco Charlton is sliding unexpectedly. I mean, you don't. Maybe they give up. That's justin tuck, you give you give up ninety two to go get a guy who can be either a starter or a serious contributor on your defensive line. I think they would do that. Would you give up a third round pick if I assured you that I could get Justin Tuck, if I could get a player similar to Justin Tuck, if you can't give me that insurance? Since, secondly,

I think I have fun with me Rick. I think I think they need three starters in the first d rounds. I think they would prefer that, but I think they would. I think they could sell Jerry and say, we've covered our bases, We've signed these guys were not totally screwed

at any position. Let's go, or they got more, let's go, let's go get our eight sack a year, right, ind who can help the Marcus Lawrence and and they'll I mean maybe you'll disagree, but they'll sell it to us as like we got two big time impact players that are two biggest positions of need. So what if we had to get rid of our third Like I can see that with crystal clarity. I'm not saying it will happen, but it wouldn't surprise me at all. Nothing would surprised

me out of this draft room. Yeah wait a minute, now, but you remember last year that it's a fair point almost trading up for Paxton Lynch and that ended. Jerry hates as much as you love it and I love it, Jerry hates just standing there and right. Oh no, no, no, Jarry can't still do it. Trust me. I sat there with him when we didn't have a first round pick

for two straight years. I thought he literally I didn't want to stand next to because I thought he was gonna grab somebody's throat and just start because we gave up. It was the we gave up the first year for the Joey Galloway trade. It was eighteenth overall. Then we did so great that it became the next pick was the seventh pick overall. And I really that's why we just want to Joey Galloway trade. We gave two ones. Yeah,

back to back years. What yeah, that eat exactly. That's why I'm sitting here doing radio with you right now. What exactly? Charm? Oh me? Oh boy? But well, thank you very much. You get one more question? Yeah we can. I mean we're running up on time, but I mean I'm okay with one more question. Um, I'm trying to get the fans question, all right. I also want to real quick when you look up a question. I want to encourage it. If you're out there, you want to call.

You know, these guys don't bite eight eight eight eight five five two two ninety seven. I mean light Kent Garrison up. And you know, if you have a question for Dane, Rick, David myself, just feel free to call in. We'll try and finish the show out with some calls if we can't get them. But eight eight eight eight five five two two nine seven. It's on the screen right there, calls if you can. Just in the interest of playing the Devil's advocate it Nick's and we've talked

about this before, but it's been a while. I think we've been zeroed in on defense for a long time. I feel like, but Nick wants to know three offensive players at twenty eight that you either wouldn't or couldn't pass on for one reason or another. And I know we both said we would pass on Joeku. This morning, Yeah, we had a mail bag where, you know, somebody asked about it, Joku the tight end from Miami and would you pass on a tight end? Okay, we'll throw out

a tight in there. Well, okay, thro throw out a wide receiver. Well, Corey did all the ankle is Corey Davis is another one. Ross is another one. Ross the wide receiver from Washington. Tell you it's talking to teams. He John Ross is a butt player. Oh he's awesome. But I like that player. He's so fast, he's gonna he's a dynamic weapon. But I mean he the injuries, the medicals, the fact that he's just undersized to begin with. That's something that he could go top ten. He can

go nine to Cincinnati. I wouldn't be surprised. He could fall out of the first round and be surprised. He's also return guy, yeah, which which is an undervalued trait on the people. Do you want him taking those hits all set up in a minute, you know, extra hits in a first round pick. It's rocket ismail, Yeah, that's fair. I don't think they would use a first round pick in the return game. Like people bring that up about a Dory Jackson. See Dorry Jackson, that's the that's it. Yeah,

Dorry Jackson, that's the that's the thing. Everybody talks about him at twenty eight. Would you do it with the Dorry Jackson? Would you pick him to be the third fourth corner and be your return gay. But going back to the original question with offense, I think Corey Davis in that ankle. It's kind of in limbo right now. We haven't seen him work out. Probably won't be able to work out. See hers slide a little bit too, don't they if the if somehow he's still available at

twenty eight? Okay, go to the trainers, go to the medical staff. What's the bag? What's going on? Tell me is this a long term issue? Yeah, we're gonna be okay if they tell me it's okay. I'm not hesitating. You you turn in the car and you take Corey Davis. Yeah, you figure out me. You could talk me into Davis, Howard and Samuel I love Howard. I love him. I don't think the first round ten years from now. M. Greg Olson and Bill Polly silly thinks he's Jason Winton.

Bill Poyd's a Hall of Fame GM. He's a very think high floor player. You know, he's you have your favorite idea, what you're getting, do me a favor. We hear about the high floor, high ceiling and all that stuff. Explain exactly what that is to like Finn Layman's terms with the folks out there. If if we say a player is a high floor guy, what does that mean? To me? It means, you know what you're getting where

he is right now as a player. Uh, projects that that's kind of his floor, that's you know, what he's going to be at the next level. That's what he is. He is what he is right now. Not all high four players have high ceilings, you know. It's kind of that that we talk about. We throw around words like upside and potential. Not every prospect has that. Not every

prospect gets markedly better at the pro level. Some guys are near their peak in terms of being finished products, and so being a high floor player is not necessarily a bad thing, right because you know you're already a darn good player. I think Jamal Adams LSUC, Yeah, there you go. I think he's a high floor player, right. I mean he's got a ceiling too though. Yeah, he does the ceiling. But I do think that you're more excited about his floor than you are about his ceiling. Yeah.

To me, that it's still going to get him draft at top ten. So you know it's upside and potential. Uh, you know, there's no forty yard dash that can measure that, right, it's something that it's feel, it's scouting, and that's where the scouts earned their money. Yeah, I love a high floor way more than a high like potential scares the crap out of me. You want a ready made guy, right, I want a ready made guy, especially at twenty eights

risk reward. That's the name of the draft. Maybe, what would you say, Malik McDowell, Michigan State goes Spartans over there, Rick Goslin, Malik McDowell, tell us a little bit about Malik McDowell because as an alum of Michigan State, you know, you guys have had a hell of a run and then last year not so good. Thoughts on Malie McDowell though, he takes plays off. Yeah, and I think when when they were competing for national titles and balls, he was

dominating player. But when that team went in the tank last year, So you worry about that, huh? He did too. Yeah, I think there's no question about it. In the first round. Concerned, but he'll go in the first round. Yeah, he's a good looking guy. You watched him early in the season and Notre Dame and somebody's Indiana. Oh my gosh, he's a good time player. I would argue he's a top five talent in his class. He's that that high floor or is he is? He is what he is? Oh?

I mean I don't the floor is what you don't know? Yeah, I mean because he could, you know, once he gets some NFL coaching and you know, who knows what he could end up. And he's only twenty years old. Sure, we have to remember we're talking about twenty year old A lot of mcdal doesn't turn twenty one till the summer, so he's still very young. Thomas both are twenty, right, who's that Thomas from Stanford? Sama Thomas? Yeah, I think

he is. Judicius Schuster doesn't turn twenty one until November. Yeah, he's the youngest guy in the draft. Yeah, Curtis Samuel's only twenty rum So I think there's like eleven guys that are who twenty years old when they're drafted. Can McDowell play You're all important, right end, I think you play anywhere on that. I do think he could play anywhere. I mean, what do you think about him? Was a pass rusher, He can be dominant, he can do whatever

he wants. You play en tackle. If he wants to right, if he wants to six, I would I would like him if I got JJ Watt in my locker room. Yeah. If he's coming in and you're expecting him to be one of the leaders, if he can come in under a water one of the elite players, I think he'd be a much better player. But if he comes in as the star, then you've got problem. Let me ask you at twenty eight he's available, what do you think

pass up? Maybe we're not talking enough about that, and I mean and he by the way, we've got it. By the way, we've got draft shows next week to Tuesday and Wednesday leading up to the draft, so we'll get into some more that stuff. He's a guy we'd need to talk about. Malik McDowell from Michigan State can't. I'm gonna ask you. I know, we got just about three minutes. Is there anybody that called in and wants to visit me? Do have a caller? Lee in Atlanta? Lee?

Go ahead, you're on the draft show. Hey guys, what are you doing? Good? Thanks? Three quick points? Matt, you stole my thunder on the leak. I'll tell you what if I'm going to give coach Rod an attitude issue. I'm not giving him Tabor. I'm giving him a leak because he would be up the leak, you know what, all day every day. So if he is there, please go get that guy. My question about that is, is Ben Mala, David Irving or Demontree more better than the

sixth or seventh pass rusher and this draft? And then my other question is, I know Jordan Lewis is short, but if you watched Tabor play against Michigan in the Bowl game last year, he got torched. I'm sorry. The year before, he got absolutely destroyed. If you watched the tape, just watch Jordan Lewis on tape. He is going to make some coach, defensive secondary coach extremely extremely happy. Thanks guys,

I'll head out. Thank you appreciate the call. Sounding like a man who lives in Michigan because he got a Michigan state question in there, and he's got a Michigan question in there too. Maybe so when he said he's from Atlanta, yeah, that's down there. They're doing good things. I was super high. Like the only reason that I'm not thinking about Jordan Lewis anymore is because of the DV stuff. That's scared me off, because I mean, he was great at the Senior Bowl. I thought he was

really impressive. I liked him and just I'm a big Dan Lewis. You are a fan of his, Yeah, I think he's short, but he has decent arm length and you want, yeah, his film's great. Is any of that cleared up? I mean, do we know what's going on that we've heard? Yeah, we need to dig on that a little bit further, something that teams will have to kind of do a little bit overtime to figure out what's going on. That's that's a non starter for me.

These defensive ends he mentioned, you know, in these defensive ends better than say like uh say like Rivers, you know, I think from Youngstown or Basham from from Ohio. That's kind of the logic I've been using during this whole draft process is when you're talking about the back end of the round. I'm not I'm never trying to sell anybody that the guys here are all pros, but are is the guy you get at sixty gonna be better

than the guys that are already here. If you were drafting in twelfth and you could get Derek Barnett, it would be a different story. But I wonder if the talent level here is, if not better than, at least just as good as whatever you're going to get at the back end of the round. But the draft is all but drafting hope. You're hoping, you're and that's I mean you drafted, you're giving your fans hope. You would be hoping that one of these guys can blossom into

something much better, right. I think it's expectations, you know, for the rookie season, and then down the line. I think there's five rookies ever who have had double digit sacks in a season. Yeah, I mean it's it's not a very high number, it's you know, these guys are ya, it's one of the early ones. I remember the least favorite player ever, Joey Bosa. Yeah, and so at sixty

I was wrong about Joey Bosa. I'm just gonnadmit that at sixty you're not going to get a player I don't think, in my opinion, that's going to instantly or quickly become the best pass rusher on your team. But at twenty eight, I think it's possible, depending on who's there. I mean, j you had JJ walt to this, to this roster, and I think that you know from jan what I'm sorry? Yeah, I'm like, whoa if you had t J wat to the roster. Uh, he might not be the guy from day one, but maybe midway through

the season he might merge as your top pass rusher. Yeah. Tho's Big ten kids. You gotta like them. Oh sure, yeah, plenty of talent in that least. It's plenty of talent in the Big ten. Rick, thank you so much for joining us today. That's all we have time for the draft show today. Again, I want to thank Rick Goslin for coming in and spending some stories, giving us some philosophy. I always appreciate. He's one of my dear friends and I always uh used him as a great resource this

time a year. He's one of the guys you can absolutely believe in his in his work. I want to also thank Dame Brugler At, David Hellman and Kent Garrison for the executive producing. Uh. We're gonna be on next Tuesday and Wednesday draft shows coming for nothing on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and then we've got three days of draft coverage Thursday, Friday, Saturday on Dallas Cowboys to every time, every pick, every so be along with us for that. Okay, for all

my friends here, let's been a draft show. Take care of. We'll see you next week. M