People think you go to bed one night without cancer and wake up the next day with it. And it doesn't work that way. I honestly don't think I knew health until after cancer. The doctors would tell my mom that me pooping once a month was normal because it was just my pattern. Think about everything you and I do for a living now. We worry if people are pooping once a day. Illness was normalized from literally the first days of my life. And so when I was starting my period at nine years old.
The earlier you start your period, the more cancer. By the time I was 11, I was on birth control pills to deal with the endometriosis and the polypsysticovarian syndrome. By the time I was 14, I had cervical dysplasia, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at 16, thyroid dysfunction at 16. By the time I was 18, I had been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome. It's summer before my sophomore year of college.
I'm shooting over to the doctor's office weekly saying, something's different, something's wrong. And they just kept writing more script. I know that something's wrong and that no one's listening. My roommate came home one day and found me unconscious and got me mobile enough to rush me to the emergency room, visiting ER doc, who came in, took one look at me and was like, wait a minute, something's really wrong here.
And finally said, we need more labs, we need more examination, we need some imaging. When he came back into the room, tears pouring down his face and starts by telling me that he has a daughter my age. So I am definitely mirroring back to him. And he says, I don't know exactly what kind it is yet, but you have cancer. I was in kidney failure, I was in liver failure, 100% what they found on the imaging, 100% bowel blockage. He told me you're too sick to even get a single dose of chemotherapy.
It's just everything is shut down. So with this shut it down further.
I'm excited to bring you my next guest. You're gonna know everything about cancer, even how to bring alternative into regular uh treatments, if you like, but we're gonna hear all about what's working, what's not, all the new science, metabolic health, and how that relates to cancer, the causes, because we align on toxicity as being a major cause. But you're gonna hear some new stuff too.
You're gonna wanna absolutely share this one because you know how many people are battling cancer and need to hear this information. Well, I'm here with the expert, Nasha Winters.
So good.
We have known each other for a long time.
Yeah. I was trying to think about that when I was driving here today. I thought, gosh, how long? You know, of course, I've known of you forever. And I had the honor of being part of one of your events. Oh my gosh, seven years ago, maybe longer. Yeah. Yeah. That was incredible. And I got to meet so many people from your tribe that have all become very big influences and friends and colleagues in my life as well.
You bring together some cool people. Yeah. And you know, I've been training doctors for years. You were at one of my big doctor events. And I'll tell you, I mean, we all still refer you a lot of people, you know, just because you know, we strongly believe in what you've uncovered, what you're doing. Uh, you know, bringing, I I said it in the intro piece, you know, oftentimes you're bringing the alternative stuff um with the standard of standard care. I don't know what do you call that?
Standard care of the thing. Well they call it standard of care. Standard of care. Okay, that's what I thought. Okay. But yeah, and I I think a lot of people um watching this are probably interested in that. A lot of people are saying, hey, I don't even want that standard of care. I just want to do this. Well, you're gonna get that some of those answers too. But you stay on top of like everything that's going on. That's why I have a lot of questions. Yeah. Thank you.
Good. Yeah, because I, you know, this is um you know, I just interviewed uh recently John Richardson uh about B-17.
Amazing, yeah.
I want to get some layout, AK layatrol, uhmygdala. So yeah, uh but anyways, you know, we can even throw down on that a little bit. But um there's so many questions, you know, that I have and I think other people have about some of these alternative, you know, alternatives. So I was gonna say medicines, but you know, I don't know if we can even call it that. But I want to start here. I you know, you didn't like me, uh you didn't choose this. Right. It chose you at age 19, maybe?
Yeah. So pain to purpose. You've you've got your purpose, you didn't choose it. It was given to you. Uh I believe God gave that to you very much because you have made such a difference. Oh, and uh but take us back to age 19. What the heck happened? Or or sooner for that matter, because causative factors can be years before.
Well, and I love that you say that because I think some people think you go to bed one night without cancer and wake up the next day with it. Yep. It doesn't work that way. And you know what's interesting, and especially I think where our resonance in our the way we view health, you know, and and health creation and disease prevention are very, very sympatico. Um, for me, I honestly don't think I knew health until after cancer.
So, an example, I was born in an era in 1971 when breastfeeding was no not happening. It was just Oh, really?
Okay, I didn't so breastfeeding wasn't in vogue that I was born in 1965. I breastfed. So but I didn't know that that I so I got lucky maybe. You did. You were in the way, you had a little run, a little longer runway. Okay, so in the 60s it was still breastfeeding, it's still the thing.
Yeah, towards the end. And it started to change.
And so, yeah.
You exactly. I mean, the year of my birth was also the year that um the Nixon administration, you know, waged war on cancer and started the NCI. Interesting. So kind of an interesting uh, you know, timing of things. My husband was born in 1969 and he uh was not he was uh the youngest of 10 children and the only one not breastfed. So that change was relatively towards the end of the 60s, moving into the 70s.
A lot of industries, pharma and big ag and big pharma were really picking up momentum in that time. And so I was born a time it was not vogue, and I was allergic to all of the formulas, and they finally settled on the least of the bad of them, which was soy formula.
And by the way, allergic is like it sounds like you were unlucky, but the fact was is your gut just wasn't mature, it was wide open. So these proteins, foreign proteins, cross over, and your body make it does what it should do, makes antibodies to it, protecting you. And now, unfortunately, you've developed a lifetime of allergies. I mean, absolutely as a child, you know. Yeah, you're probably so much better now, obviously.
Yeah, it takes well, and it still took, you know, it still takes a lot of work to take care of that. And so it's like I was I say these things to people so they understand that boy, Hattie, it really does matter what happens in those first two years of your development. Like if we have any control, we want to take advantage full advantage. And so for me, I didn't have that um that sort of foundation laid.
And I was so intolerant of all the things that it was like, well, let's use the least intolerant. And for me, it was and yeah, which is a hormone disruptor. Exactly. So explains why by the age, oh first of all, uh funny, well, not so funny, definitely not funny then. But the doctors would tell my mom that me pooping once a month was normal because it was just my pattern. Can you believe that? Can you believe that? I know.
I know, I know, and like can think about everything you and I do for a living now. Oh gosh, you know, we are like, we worry if people aren't pooping once a day. I know, right? It's like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gosh. I know. So that was like normalized. So illness was normalized from literally the first days of my life. And so when I was starting my period at nine years old, no one quite this is in 1980.
By the way, the earlier you start your period, the more cancer, earlier to death, really. I mean, all these problems that start. Yeah.
Yeah. By the time I was 11, I was on birth control pills to deal with the endometriosis and the polycystic ovarian syndrome.
I mean, by the way, you're singing a song that is very common now. But back then it wasn't as common, right? But now it is common. You know, we'll we'll talk about that. Okay, so go on.
And neither time was it normal. Yeah. Well, of course, a common does not make it normal. Exactly. But boy, it's so common now that this story we hear every day in our practices. But back then, no one did. And and it's just it's just fascinating. But by the time I was 14, I had cervical dysplasia, 16 again, um, rheumatoid juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at 16, thyroid dysfunction at 16.
Um, by the time I was 18, I had been diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome, which I mean, we understand like the layer cake. Yeah. All of those things had plenty of scripts behind them. But because I was young, I was uh, you know, head of my volleyball team, student body present, like outside to the world, I was healthy. Yeah. I thought it was healthy.
And that's happening to many people today. Yeah. I mean, every symptom you just said, every condition you just said is so common, it's almost normal. Yeah. And on the outside, everyone looks normal, but on the inside, you know, they're searching.
Exactly. And so add to that layer cake, which I would not really start to unpack until later, but um, you I know have spoken to the impact of trauma. And there's a concept known as the adverse childhood events. And there's even a a survey, an adverse childhood events score that's been um, you know, characterized in standard of care for the past 30, 40 years of knowing that uh it's a 10 questions asking about um particular exposures or experiences before the age of 18.
And the more of those experiences you've had, the higher your incidence of disease chronic.
Physical, chemical, emotional, yeah, trauma, trauma.
Exactly. And specifically on these 10 questions, they're asking about, you know, like your safety growing up and your resources growing up, whether it was support, financial, et cetera. Did you have someone in your family with addictions or incarceration?
So more emotional stuff. Definitely.
The adverse childhood events score is definitely more around um emotional stability. Okay, you know, and so just in some context to help understand the painting of the picture of now, you know, my physical health was trying was not in good shape. I was a 10 out of 10 on the ACE score. So here it is. Um it's summer before my sophomore year of college. I'm shooting, like shooting over to the doctor's office and the ER every like fo seemingly weekly, saying something's different, something's wrong.
And they just kept writing more scripts. Here's some anxiolytics, here's some antibiotics, here's some antifungals for the yeast infections we caused with that last round of antibiotics, just layer upon layer upon layer, and me getting more and more desperate and them starting to treat me like a histrionic, drug-seeking teenager. Right. And I I know that something's wrong and that no one's listening.
Gosh, you know, I just have to interject there because I always felt like when I was trying to get my life back, right? If someone would just listen to me, I would find my answer. Yeah. And I would go into doctors and I would know within moments if they were listening or not. Or if they were just not listening, that was just gonna be the same song and dance, next thing, next thing. And if they were listening, I had hope. Oh yeah. It's like because people don't listen.
Doctors don't listen, but I always felt the clues were there. Anyway, that was you looking for someone to listen, right?
Exactly. And again, it was a small town, so you kind of had the same group of people you're seeing. So you already have a impression or belief system about you when you walk in. My roommate found me at yeah, right. So they've got they're they're limiting your ability to find answers as well. And so my roommate came home one day and found me unconscious and got me uh mobile enough to rush me to the emergency room.
I ended up getting a different doctor, a visiting ER doc, who came in, took one look at me and was like, wait a minute, something's really wrong here. And now when you hear what really was going on, you wonder, you'll wonder, how in the world could anyone miss this? I get this question all the time. So he took one look at me and noticed this giant belly because everyone kept thinking maybe I had uh, you know, they were like, oh, maybe she's, you know, pregnant or has a ectopic.
I'm like, that couldn't possibly be happening right now. Like I was like, this is immaculate conception. That's not happening. It was like these crazy things going on. He looked at me, saw my belly, saw my the thinness of my legs and arms, the gauntness of my face, could hear my breathing, noticed my oxygen levels in the 70s, um, and finally said, we need more labs, we need more examination, we need some advantages.
I would have thought maybe you have a parasite.
Well, that's well, that's what people were like, oh, maybe that had you been camping. They were like checking for your Giardia. Um, what we ended up finding, he wasn't sure when he came back into the room after I was about eight hours into the ER visit at that time when he came back in, tears pouring down his face. Um, and starts by telling me that he has a daughter my age. So I am definitely mirroring back to him. And he says, I don't know exactly what kind it is yet, but you have cancer.
And it it's that shock because you've been like, oh, it's just my IBS really flaring or my polycystic ovarian flaring or my rheumatoid arthritis flaring or my, you know, endometriosis flaring, because that's what circle and cycle I'd been in for at that point, almost a decade. Actually a decade. So very, very interesting.
And he then oh, what was the telltale sign that tipped him off? Um he said I'd Because he could have thought that was endometriosis. He could have thought that was, you know, a lot of people.
He said the gauntness, he said the the cachexia, known as sarcopenia, extreme muscle wasting. Um he said my color was very wrong. Um, because I'd I was in kidney failure, I was in liver failure, 100% what they found on the imaging, 100% bowel blockage, um, which I'd already shown up for two weeks before that coming in saying nothing's going in and nothing's coming out. And they're just like, it's just your IBS flaring.
Here's some, here's some constipation medication, and you know, you know, again, normalizing it all. And I mean, I could have ruptured my whole colon with what was going on there. And he just saw that and did an exam and realized the belly was not fat, was not pregnancy, was not endometrosis. It was something known as ascites and specifically malignant ascites. So fluid buildup in parts where it shouldn't be in my abdomen.
And when he got when they got the imaging, they saw grapefruit sized tumor on my right ovary, they saw lesions all over my liver, lesions all throughout my pelvis, my lymph nodes and my groin were completely inflamed, um, fluid in my lungs, fluid around my heart, complete bulb. I mean, it was bad. You know, and as a doctor, now looking back, I know how bad that really was. They he told me, You're too sick to even get a single dose of chemotherapy. It's just everything is shut down.
So this will just shut it down further.
That was smart because a lot of doctors would have just put you right into the standard of care, as we said. Yeah.
Yeah. And he just they he just couldn't in good conscience do that. So he literally in the in that horrible moment, you know, get your fares in order and go home. And very confused, he's like, here's a second opinion, you know, here's a place to go. So um they made me comfortable that night, got me um drained a lot of the fluid.
Um I in fact, over the next several months, I would go back every few days to get that fluid drained um just to be comfortable because it was very uncomfortable, the amount of pressure that was putting it was adding to the pain. Now, did you think at that point that I'm probably gonna die? I thought at that point I was definitely going to die. And because I was not offered anything, and so I was pre-med, by the way. So I was someone who thought I'd be a doctor someday.
And suddenly I'm looking to the doctors to help me, and they can't offer anything. So I also felt part of my upgrade bringing was a lot of abandonment stuff, and suddenly I was in that same camp again. So interesting, prior to about two years before this diagnosis, I had actually taken, I had attempted taking my own life on two occasions. There just didn't seem like there was hope.
And so for me to even be the first person of my family to go to college to leave, I graduated high school and a week later I left not just my home, but my state and went as far away as possible to go to school all on student loans, working full-time to help me pay for my overhead, to do that, and just to try and create a new life, to save my life, to get out of the trauma and the toxins where I was. And so here it is. This happens for me.
And even though I'd really not known if I could ever really do it, something with this diagnosis lit a pilot light in me. And I didn't expect to fight it or battle it or somehow survive it. I simply wanted to understand it. And that's what sort of led to the steps that led to the next step, to the next step, to the next step, which brings us to where we are.
I believe God put that in your heart to like just to dig and understand it, knowing it would lead to where you are today. You've helped so many people. Uh gosh, I I have so many questions. I I you know, I do. I I just, you know, there's so many things. I always say it's a perfect storm. Oh, yeah. That it's never one thing. The soy, I agree with you, hormone disruptor on that. What what were some other things that you looking back would say that was part of this perfect storm?
Obviously, the abandonment, you mentioned that, right? I mean, the emotional stuff with cancer, big connection. You I've heard you teach on that. So what was it? And what was the abandonment?
And so so much. I I think that first of all, my mom had a stillborn before me. Okay. And everyone ignored her. Like everyone, like she's like, something's wrong, something's wrong, something's wrong, something's wrong. Everybody ignored in her ninth month of pregnancy. And so I think losing, you know, my sister, you know, that never came into this world, left a very traumatic wound in my mother. Who imagine then just a few months after that getting pregnant with me. Right.
I just imagine the state of her mind as she's gonna be able to do it.
She might have been pregnant, still post 100%.
At 78 years old, she's still in this. She's still like the trauma I see. Like I used to go with my mom as I was growing up, like every year as a little girl, to to my sister's grave. My mom was never given a place to grieve that. She found she tried to find her own way around it. So she metabolized that, and I'm certain to pass that through. And even her trauma. I mean, her father died when she was seven.
Um, so was raised, you know, as a single by her mom, a single mom, you know, with me and my father um extremely like very tr very charismatic, but very addicted, and had a lot of addiction history and came from his own wave of trauma. So both of them, I just heard Dr. Gabor Mate was at a conference and he said, you know, we marry the people who have the same amount of trauma as we do.
And that hit me like a lightning bolt and thinking about, you know, the things my husband and I processed over our 34 years this month together. Oh, yeah. Oh, thank you. And then thinking about what my mom would have been going through with my husband without the resources that I have with my husband, you know, and her family of origin prior to that and his as well. That was like a huge aha for me.
Yeah.
The other one is I grew up in an area on four like super fund sites. You look at Wichita, Kansas demographic, military bases, beach Boeing, Learjet, so all of that type of, you know, airlines.
And by the way, you can Google super funds sites in America. Yep. Because people are always asked that question. Because the the frequency of cancer of people growing up, you know, on around those hot spots, and that's what they are, toxic hot spots. The cancer rates go through the roof, right? So, you know, start there, right? You know, where is the nearest superfund uh superfund? I don't know why that rings off like it's wrong. I know, right? It's like what is that? Yeah, exactly.
But it's wild because in fact, when people hear me on a podcast or something about where I grew up, I get hundreds of messages about people saying, Oh, I'm from Wichita, or my mother was, or so and they had a weird cancer, and that you know, like everyone tells me these stories. So there was a lot of really oddball cancer processes.
The other thing is I also grew up in the UR when we moved from uh the I came from a long line of farmers, so outside of which I'd spend my summers on in Pratt and Sawyer and Medicine Lodge, Kansas, Coldwater, Kansas, on the farm. And I got a watch when we like let go of our gardens and also then sold off our property to big ag and started to have the big, you know, glyphosate in the big all the pesticides, glyphosate known to be cancer.
A lot of those have been banned because of the cancer. And yet, you know, glyphosate you're we're still being exposed to, and we know it's linked to cancer. Exactly. So okay, yeah. So the emotional trauma. Emotional trauma.
Toxic trauma beyond belief. And then poverty trauma. Poverty, like extreme, um, extreme poverty, just always that place of just that that leaves a residue of of insecurity of when is the next meal. I mean, there were so many times, I mean, there were periods of times we were homeless, and there were periods of times of of not having food.
I mean, my mom would buy bags and bags of you know, these huge, huge things of potatoes and huge things of onions, and we would live on fried potatoes and onions in corn oil. Dang.
Yeah, another one.
Yeah, and I when I was 13, I had to start working a full-time job just to help with rent. And so I worked at hot dog on a stick. So you talk about toxins. That was my square meal. My, you know, I worked there five days a week, and that was where I knew I'd get a square meal. And a square meal being a hot dog on a stick, cornbread dipped in and gluten, dipped in corn fried in corn oil. So I mean, how, of course, why didn't I have of course I had cancer. Exactly. Right?
It's like you when I tell it, it's like, geez, Louise, the perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect storm of it all. And the weird thing, all of it normalized. All of it normalized. And so by the time it shows, yeah.
But how with you're making that sound simpler. Okay. Yeah. So like how did that happen?
Exactly. Well, and here's the wild thing is it would still take me years to even understand oh, those food things I was eating or the environment that we lived in, or you know, like like because of poverty, we ha we would live in like roach infested places where we had to use a lot of pesticides or getting it tented. They were probably mold or moldy too on top of it all.
So you probably had mold in there. Exactly. Pesticides for the roaches.
Exactly. And then like I can remember the tenting when they tented for termites and we were too poor to get a hotel, so we had to stay there. Like that's illegal. Like my mom like snuck us in the back door.
When I hear the story, I don't know which one was the major player. Yeah. Because you had so many major players.
Such a stack. And it would still be many years. She talked about another element. So kind of we're starting to look at my terrain 10 here of all the things we're going through. Um, in 1996, I was one of the first people tested for BRCA because of my age of when I had cancer. And um that was also a place I have the BRCA genes. And so that is a gene, you know, a lot of people think of that as your like, that means you're gonna get cancer.
No, it's a methylation problem and it's a DNA repair problem. So now you guys have heard that I had a lot of DNA hits. And what was more miraculous is how long my body, with as little resources and support it was getting, how amazing it was to do as well as it did despite all of that. Yeah. Like now I can look back and she's incredible.
I know. Yeah. That's remarkable. I mean, honestly, I I would argue you have some uh a really good constitution to be able to tolerate that. Did your mom end up with cancer?
So my mom had her thyroid removed, breast lumps removed. She had an emergency hysterectomy at tw right after I was shortly after I was born, actually shortly after my brother was born, um, for toxic shock syndrome. And when they got in there, when they took out everything, they did a complete hysterectomy, they realized she had ovarian cancer, but it had a pure surgical resection. I didn't learn of that until about 10 years ago. Oh my gosh.
Because it didn't occur to her to tell, you know, to even talk about it. Well, they got it all, like the same thing with the thyroid, same thing with the breast slumps being removed. So on her side of the family, multiple breast cancers, uterine cancers, et cetera. There's so this is a weird story. There's not a single uterus left in my family of origin except for my own.
Wow. Yeah, that's amazing.
On my mom's line, yeah.
Yeah.
My dad died of cancer. A lot of people in his family died of cancer. Now his was very lifestyle driven. He ultimately died of cancers related to cirrhosis. Um, but those were the types of things that was like more created, you know, uh, you know, intentional, yeah, I guess, or unintentionally intentional. But those patterns, when I look at it, it's just incredible to me.
You know, and now I've got, and I'm the eldest of my cousins on my mom's side, and none of them have like they've all had hysterectomies years ago from polycystic ovarian syndrome and endometriosis.
Yeah, I know that's not gonna go well. I exactly, yeah, parts start coming out without getting to the cause. Exactly.
Exactly. So that's been the crazy part that made me get curious. And I get more curious every day when I run into another family member and you know, like hear what's going on with them, and like, you know, you might want to read this book or you might want to check this out. Um, because it's it's not that it's not just bad luck. It's not that, oh, this is just what happens, it's not just your gene.
We we all have genes of susceptibility, all of us do. Even certain cancers, even something you can line it up, right? It's uh but it's the combination of having the exposures, the causative factors, the emotional again, perfect storm. Three stressors come together, bam, you get what your genetic weakness is, you know, is exactly.
Yeah. You know, and it's funny because everyone, I mean, I can't I honestly can't think of a single case over tens of thousands of cases I've directly consulted on, or hundreds of thousands I've indirectly consulted on, um, that someone said didn't say, I was healthy until I got cancer. And I'm always just taken back by that because maybe it's three plus decades looking at all the data.
Yeah, all the information. Well, but again, they're coming from a paradigm of they were unlucky and a cancer showed up one day. Yeah. Right. You and I look at it and go, oh no, that was happening from the soy formula all the way through, right? Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. And even like even like what was happening in the womb and what was happening generationally above that that created patterns or propensities that are here. And so that's what I help people, because I hear this a lot. People sit there and go, Well, I eat well and I work out and I do this. It's like, golly, those are like the iceberg tip sticking out of the water. It's like, what is underneath? That's what I say all the time.
I know. That's where we're by the way, uh that iceberg starts filling in utero. You kind of made that point. You picked up your mother's, you know, postpartum depression, I'm sure, and what wasn't being given to you. Yeah. And then her toxins in utero. Uh I always talk about dra the Drash study where the the amount of mercury, silver fillings mom has, that mercury goes right into the baby. I mean, lead, the all the pesticides, I mean, all of it in you. You start soy formula.
I mean, all the Oh, and my oh she my mom's still so my mom's 78 years old. She must have the George Byrne gene because she still smokes like a chimney. But she used to say, Oh, I used to kick the ashtray off my belly in uter, in utero. And the doctors then were having her smoke to have a smaller baby. Oh my gosh.
Right?
Like you can't even make this down.
Okay. So we yeah. Yeah, smoke to have a smaller baby. Uh pooping once a month is normal. Here's what I want people to hear when we hear those things. Yeah. We think it's different today. Uh my point is that we're saying things and doing things and treating people with things that we're gonna look back 20, 30 years from now and go, oh my God, can you believe, yeah. Yeah, barbaric, right? For sure. So don't forget that. You know, say don't forget that.
Mark our words because it's all and that's actually kind of brings us up to even the way we treat cancer today. So to me, like it's so barbaric and so antiquated that we are are believing that we can poison a body back into health. Aaron Powell Yeah.
It's see, it just goes against a major premise that I run my life back by. It's like, yeah, you're not going to give someone a toxin. And people don't understand that's what chemo is, right? Trevor Burrus, Jr. And purpose belief. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Like when people say, hey, can I take your cell clear product while I'm getting chemo, I say no, because it's too good for your cells, meaning your doctor will have a problem with that because they're poisoning cells. Trevor Burrus, Exactly.
It's a purpose. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, exactly. So if we're making your cells healthy again, trying to make it it's going counterintuitive to the treatment you've chosen. You know, meaning like if you're going that route of poisoning cells, then you have to go that route of poisoning cells. You can't be doing things to make cells healthy. Right. It's like, you know, you could make it timing. Yeah, exactly. You can do that after.
But the point is, is people don't realize that you know that's what's happening, right? We're either burning tissue or we're poisoning tissue, and that's the treatment.
Aaron Powell And even that, I mean, in the last I mean, gosh, we've known all along. I mean, Madame Curie is a very good example, who was the inventor of radiation, right? And so um it I uh just an absolutely amazing story of this woman, this brilliant scientist who ends up dying from, you know, basically leukemia from all of her years of working with radiation, with radium.
Um, and that has been our main, you know, surgery was our main treatment of choice for cancer for millennia because cancer's always been. It's not it's a new, but you know, around, you know, the 1800s, it was about one in 250 cases. And I may be misquoting that a little bit, so forgive me, please have some grace there for the listening folks. Um, but by the time I left medical school, it was closer to one in 20. And that was in the late 90s. And then by the time we got to today, it's one in two.
So more cancer despite having more tools to treat it. And so we had surgery and then we had radiation after Madame Curie's work, and then it wasn't really until after World War II that we introduced chemotherapy. And chemotherapy, folks, was a direct result. It was leftover ammunition, leftover biologic warfare from World War II was repurposed into pharmaceuticals to treat cancer. That's where we got our first drugs to treat cancer as a chemotherapy.
And over 80% of the chemotherapies utilized up until the last few years or so were derived from plant extracts. So, for instance, taxanes. So taxol, abraxane, these drugs came from the Pacific U tree. All right. And the uh vincotoxins, which are used in a lot of cancers today, came from the periwinkle plant.
And um, many of these uh, you know, there's just plenty that come from a variety of plants that in their whole plant compound, they're toxic, they're usually the toxic herbs, but they have kind of a built-in protector. So you could take that toxic herb, but you'll poop it up or shoot or throw it up if you hit the over-toxic dose. But when we synthesize it in a lab, we take away that built-in modulating mechanism and just make it purely toxic. Okay. Totally wreaking havoc on the system.
And so that was introduced. And so by the time 1971 and the waging war came along, we hadn't made much input. And here's the thing is I think everyone, you read a headline and you would think we are winning this war at different times.
Absolutely. I mean, people would. People would think, yeah, well, thank God, because of all the sophistication, right? All the amazing drugs that have been developed, um, right, and the with all the different ways of targeting these genes, right? I mean, there's so many things today. I mean, it it sounds like that's not true.
Well, let's give an example. Uh, I'm trying to think here. I think it was 2022 this study came out, and it was evaluating, I believe, from 2011 until 2019. So it was over a relatively 17, 18 year period, you know, or seven, eight-year period. It was looking at the 96 drugs that were introduced to the cancer world. And they looked at they could they clumped all the cancer types, all the stages into one sort of bucket, if you will.
They looked at all of those drugs and they evaluated what was the overall survival rate that these drugs offered. Have a guess of what that was? And these are our blockbusters. These are our we spent billions of dollars of getting them. You know, it's a it costs about $120 million to even get a drug started in research, like just even get it approved to go into research.
So we're talking about survival rates from the the drug.
Yeah, survival rates from the drug itself.
Yeah. So I mean, you would think to convince people to take it, you'd think it would be at least 70% survival rates. Yeah.
Like a huge survival rate, and even like time frame, like thinking, well, this is gonna buy me time, even if it doesn't cure me. Right. A lot of people will look for that, what they call a progression free survival or an overall survival. The average, so some a little better, some a little worse. 2.4 months.
2.4 months, that's all.
How much more it gets you.
Yeah. And by the way, it's a miserable 2.4 months.
It is definitely not qualifying your parallelities. Oh, immediately the least of your problems. Yeah, exactly. I mean, people are a lot of these newer therapeutics target agents are very, very, very, very dis uncomfortable.
So what about s survival rates? Like what what about or success rates? Now, that can be deceiving too because so my mother-in-law, right? I said she was doing this treatment and you know, they made it sound like it was 95, 98 percent survival rates because of this, right? And I'm like, okay. So then I I read into it and I'm like, well, Joyce, that that's in five years. Yeah. I said, I asked the doctor when you go in, well, where are these women now?
And he's like, his exact words were, well, they're all dead.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, hold on a second. Uh you know, I thought that was 95% survival. No. No, no, that was five years.
And actually survival rate. Response rate is really what they're telling you. Response and response could is qualified as any amount of extension of life, or any amount of tumor reduction on imaging, or any amount of tumor marker reduction. And that's considered that's response.
So again, so when the average person reads what the the doctor gives them, here is because that you know, someone will say the right thing, like, well, do you have some research on this drug of its success? Oh, yeah, here. And they read, oh, well, it's 95%. And it's like and having the ability to dig deeper and go, oh, wait a minute, wait a minute. Yeah. That was tumor shrinkage and you know, has nothing to do with where they are 10 years later.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Well, and I can't even tell you how many ASCO conferences. And ASCO is like the Super Bowl of standard of care oncologists, right? It's like what it's this giant, massive meeting. And they've got small ASCO meetings throughout the year, too. But this one's like the big annual event. Tens of that, like 20,000 doctors, come to this. And you see them up there talking about, oh, the patient had a 100% response rate, meaning that tumor went completely away.
And then you dig a little deeper and they were still dead within two and a half months. Right. And so here's like you died without the tumor, and they p congratulate themselves, pat themselves on the back. And so what's really weird today is we have so normalized and minimized that we make major headlines and we do huge celebrations if a patient lives 2.5 months beyond their expiration date because of a drug. That's how little we've moved the dial. So we call that a success.
Our bar has gotten lower and lower and lower. We've gotten sicker and sicker and sicker, younger and younger and younger. Absolutely. So yeah.
And child, I don't know if you know the numbers on it, but childhood cancers, I mean, it was uh I mean, it was you never even heard uh, you know, in your circle anyway, of childhood cancers. Now today it's constant. Yeah.
And it's, you know, we actually got into utilizing chemotherapy at Dana Farber in the 1950s because of childhood cancer. There was a lot actually happening, well, a lot in our minds of childhood cancer happening at that time.
Um, a lot of people were suspecting it was secondary to other toxins that were in the environment, like DET, you know, DET and other things that we took off the market later, things like, you know, there was just certain pharmaceuticals and things we were using then that we didn't have the research. And we had a lot of childhood cancers then. And Dana Farber really almost eradicated that when they started bringing in the chemotherapy.
So there were certain cancer types, certain chemo uh leukemias, certain lymphomas, and testicular cancer were and continue to be really the only ones with a good response rate. And response is the operative word here, not overall survival rate to chemotherapy. And yet virtually all the others have less than a two to three percent response rate to the chemotherapy. But we don't have anything else to offer, so we keep pushing this down down the So why why those cancers?
What you you said testicular, um testicular and the blood cancers and leukemia. So I I've looked at a lot of different um data on this. I don't even know if they know for sure.
But one of one of the theories that has actually come out more in the last 20 or so years from people like people in the longevity studies world like Vulture Longo and others, people in the metabolic oncology world like Tom Seafried and others is that one of the things that happens are those those chemo regimens for those particular cancer types are so, so like napalm to the field, so intense.
They create so much nausea, so much vomiting that that Walter Longo and others have actually uh thought that perhaps fasting bingo. That is exactly it, that it's actually putting people into a mi a fasting mimicking space. And it's that that may in and of itself be what the the real win is.
And I I want to push into fasting. Yeah. I know Volter's work, I know you know Thomas Seyfried's work, right? And um and I know that there's certain cancers that respond really well to fasting, others maybe not. So we'll we'll talk about that. But okay, so is there any of these treatments? Because you said there's a few cancers, the blood cancers, testicular cancer that seems to do okay. Lance Armstrong, right, was one, right?
You know, he had testicular cancer seems to do good with chemo, the rest not so much. Um are there any other treatments that seem like you would say to somebody, yeah, do it.
I mean, I think uh when we have uh not necessarily that it treats the cancer itself, but it can be very, very helpful in quality of life and long and longevity of life, is when somebody has bone metastasis, especially when there's a threat to uh the bone breaking, that you can have some pretty big problems there, spot radiation. Very, very helpful. Okay, it takes the pain away immediately. It weirdly creates kind of like a like a spackle on the bone to help prevent any further bone mets there.
And it can buy time for the patient to find other means around that. So that's a place that works. There's certain tumor types where some very spot focal radiation when there's very small lesions, ablative therapies, be it radioablation, be it cryoablation, be it heat ablation therapy. Freezing them, heating them, yeah, or just nucleum.
Yeah. But again, I would argue you still have to ask why the body as an immune system allowed it. Yeah.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Like you can debulk the tumor enough to then say, let's go after let's get detective work on now.
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah. So that's where, like where I said in the beginning, where you're you bring your work in, you would say to someone, do this while we're doing this. Yes. Meaning, you know, minimize, help the body get rid of the you know, the size of the tumor. Uh so yeah, so some of these um radiations work. What about radiation for breast uh breast tumors, things of that sort? Trevor Burrus, Jr.
Wait, how do you I mean there's actually just been a study or two that have come out just this past year saying, please stop. You know, like just because I can't even tell you. In fact, I lost uh she be has become a dear friend and actually someone very instrumental in even helping set up our nonprofit and raise grants for patients to get access to this type of care.
We just lost her this week, not to cancer, but to side effects of her initial diagnosis in 2011 for her stage one breast cancer that was over-treated for, you know, they did a they did a they did the biopsy, they did a lumpectomy, they then followed up with massive amounts of radiation, which fried her brachial plexus. She spent the last 14 years basically disabled.
Yeah, that's the nerves that run down your arm and give you total function.
Exactly. So, like just a just a weak arm, the discomfort, the pain of this, it created so much problem that she ultimately, when she had the cancer recur, when she started working with me um eight years ago, stage four everywhere. I mean, we're talking, it came back with a vengeance. So here's a woman, stage one, who a few years and now like crippled, and then a few years later, it's back with a vengeance. She did everything that Standard of Care asked her to do.
So when she came back to me, she was like, I am never doing that again. But it was so big and so bad that we we could do a lot in trying to slow things down, but we needed to really address her liver and her brain quickly because that's where it had taken up a lot of residence. So we did get her to a center that could do what's known as metronomic chemotherapy based on her tissue genomics, her molecular markers. So we could really personalize and target.
Instead of giving her 100% of the dose, we gave her 10% of the dose. We stacked it with um hyperbaric oxygen, we stacked it with fasting and therapeutic ketosis. We got her 100% back into remission.
So there's another example of taking the standard of care with a lot of these strategies, like you know, the metabolic strategies that we're gonna talk about.
So then she spent the next year still dealing with this. What was bothering her the most of this was not the cancer, but the treatment that she had for it. And that's ultimately what ended up it finally she created such a lymph angio, like this uh lymphedema in her blood vessels, which created some acute situations that when she started to come in, she would get we'd get her into remission and then she'd kind of go back to the way things were.
She was such my she was such the student for you know herself, but also a teacher for me. And that she would, you know, you can never return to the environment in which you got sick. And she would default to that uh old way of being on this planet. Each time. And we'd get shorter and shorter progression, like shorter and shorter windows of her holding back the tide. But it would come back and we'd go through the motions again to say, You can't keep going back to this.
And we'd get lucky and get her stable again. And this last one, when I saw her this summer, she was in actually a really good place. But she just sort of was like tired of all the treatments and wanted to take a break and was getting ready to finally go and do this very heroic surgery for her neck, but on her imaging, found some disease burden, not much, and was talked into doing a pretty aggressive treatment that blew up all of that inflammation.
And you know, I just got an email from the doctor like she died in the hospital exactly in the worst possible way. It's amazing.
They talk people into these things out of fear. They use fear tactics to do it. And, you know, it's almost more stressful to have to deal with your family that thinks that's the because everyone wants to say, Well, we did everything we could have done. Like everything you could have done was poison. It's like everything you could have done is why they died. Everything you could have done so we can say that is like barbaric. Right. And you know, 30 years from now, we're gonna know it's barbaric.
Right now we think it's the greatest treatment in the world. It's amazing to me that it hasn't already been understood as for its barbaric nature. I mean, we've made a little shift since we've moved a bit more into the into the immunology world and to using immunotherapies. Yeah, so yeah.
So let's talk about immunotherapies. You mentioned genomics. Yeah. These are touted now, you know, as a much better way. Are they specific? Yeah, okay. I mean, but what are the numbers saying?
Well, the numbers say that the immune therapies w have over an 80% adverse event. That's huge numbers. That's huge. Yeah. And that 20% have a very good response to therapy. And yet that is the best we got right now.
The best right there.
Yeah.
I mean, that's if you have all the money in the world.
Yep.
I mean, and you got that you're gonna get that's the best.
Well, and in fact, it's fun, it's interesting. You know, um, a lot of people have been watching Dr. Um uh Patrick Soon Xiang, who's known as the billionaire doctor. He was the uh uh creator developer of a braxane, which is a derivative of the taxol drug, which is a particular liposomal delivery of that. He also owns the LA Times, I think he owns a sports team as well.
2014 um is when I first heard about him when he was on 60 Minutes, and I really loved his message because he was talking about how we should stop calling it breast cancer or prostate cancer. We should call it like the pat like more of a mechanism or a pathway or a pattern because you could have breast cancers that actually look like a colon cancer or a colon cancer that can look like an ovarian cancer.
Like we've got he he was making the recommendation then of let's stop classifying it in the tissue that it shows up in, because that's not very helpful. Because then people are like, well, what do you do for breast cancer? Yeah, yeah. Well, then we get very pigeonholed, right? And so I really loved that message and and appreciated that he was trying to change the narrative. And then he came full circle in the last, you know, in his work and research.
He got really excited about immune therapies and has developed a protocol that was on. He was, I my gosh, he's been like Joe Rogan, he's been on, you know, 60 Minutes again. He's been on all these news shows. He was interviewed by Tar Tucker Carlson and by Rachel Mad Maddow, like all, so it was like non-political, non-bias of him saying, I've got a better answer. And in that, it's still like a million-dollar treatment for people.
So unless you have the resources, you don't get to somebody like this. But I'm actually working with a client right now who got in to see him. He has very well resourced. And I'm looking at this treatment that they're planning for him. And I'm like, Well, do you have the target? Do you have the PD1, which is a checkpoint inhibitor target? Like, does the patient exhibit this receptor that could utilize that drug combination? And he's like, Well, I don't know, they've never tested me.
Well, you're probably like, really? I mean, like, how can you I'm like and then when he sends the message off to the the famous team, they're like, Oh, you know, that that may be the if you have it or not, we're still gonna do it because it's still better than nothing. I'm like, Jesus. Excuse me. I'm like, we could do much better than that, right? How is that possible? This person's getting ready to, and this person's only a stage two process, not even a stage four.
I'm like, I don't even know if you need that treatment. Like, have you tried all the other things? When I look at the 16 pharmaceuticals he's on, no one's asked him about the collection of blood pressure medication, diabetes medication, you know, uh uh erectile dysfunction medication, which the number which is caused by his blood pressure medication.
Yeah, no, no, exactly. The number one cause of death is still medication. Exactly. I mean, it's like so we're talking about cancer. Well, no, but when you add in an all, I believe it is number one. Right, right.
So that's where I thought, golly, no one's asked him about his life. What's happened, you know, what what led, what is the terrain under which this cancer expressed? And so that's where luckily he's taking a pause. He's stepping out, he was supposed to do the treatment this week, and he's like, I'm I'm gonna request those tests now. They were great about it. They're running them. Their plan is still to move forward no matter what the results are.
But now that I've educated him and empowered him, we've already gotten in two weeks, he's off half those medications. Most of them we just stopped cold turkey because they were redundant or not necessary. And now he, and luckily his GP is working because I'm I'm just making the this, you know, I'm just educating him and empowering his clinician to help make those choices with him.
And he, even the patient was saying to me, I have this doctor for this, I have this doctor for this, I have this doctor for this. They're all saying, Go talk to this doctor if you want me to deal with this and go talk to this doctor. And I'm like, so I'm like the bird's eye view, helping him get to know his own terrain, helping him understand, and also potentially saving the man a million dollars. Because guess what?
When we get his blood sugar dialed in on two blood pressure blood sugar medications, his fasting glucose is still over 120. Oh my gosh.
I mean, you want to talk about feeding cancer cells, right? That is the prime fuel source. Yeah. I mean, it's that's what it loves. I mean, just putting it in the perfect environment to drive those cells.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Terrible. Yeah. Yeah. And he's going to do a million-dollar treatment.
It's going to fall flat.
Yeah.
You know, at least, at least flat in the majority of the cases. And so, though I believe Dr. Patrick Soon Chong is onto something very much, and I think he's absolutely pushing against the narrative, he's still in the the knee-jerk of everyone should get this treatment, instead of some people will do well with this treatment based on their terrain. Yeah. And that's where, you know, we've come from.
And I think, you know, we've spent the last 111 years in this experiment of cancer as a somatic mutation, a genetic mutation. In 1914, we started claiming it to be that.
Right.
And boy had he, so just an interesting, you know, historical perspective for your listeners, you know, 2000 or uh 1914, Theodore Bovary kind of qualifies this concept of the somatic mutation theory of cancer, aka the genetic mutation theory. Yeah. It's interesting because there's other theories. There's wound healing theory from Virchow and others along, you know, from that had led to that. Because no one, I mean, cancer had always been around.
But we didn't, we just didn't really know what it was a cause of.
Yeah, we just thought you were unlucky. Uh, you just got it and it was the humors, you know, back in the way, like the you know, the way back in the day.
Yeah. But now we're starting to get some of the technologies. We're starting to get things like microscopes and different things to start to look at the cells and understand biology at the time and and those components. Well, he was kind of people were interested until this other kind of quirky, controversial character by the name of Dr. Otto Warburg came along in 19, in the 1920s, early 1920s, and said, wait a minute, the genetics are a downstream effect. They're not the starting point.
And he was noticing in the microscopes and whatnot that the mitochondria, these organs within our cells, these little organelles, um, look different and behave differently in cancer tissue versus healthy tissue. And that became the um, you know, the metabolic or the mitochondrial theory of cancer. And that actually, he even won a Nobel Prize for it. But that actually was the popular theory until we reached the 1950s. Yeah. Until a woman found the DNA.
We were closer to the actual what was really going wrong in the 1920s than we are today. Okay, so now in the 50s, you know, okay.
Woman discovers uh the helix, two men take credit for it, Watson and Crick, the double helix. Off and running. Exactly. We went jumping right back into the frying pan of the DNA. And we really expected, including in 1971 when the war on cancer was, you know, declared, um, when we in the 1980s and we started to map the genome, we kept thinking certainly we're going to find our answer. And we got nowhere.
And the craziest part is long before, so in the 50s and 60s, we started doing nuclear cell transfer studies. And so what that means. Yeah, I'm like, you're like, huh? So in our cells, we have organs, little organelles. And we have, you know, the mitochondria, we've got, you know, the the side, like the reticular aspirin, you know, like all these different things. But the big one, the biggest one is the nuclei. All right. And that is what houses all of our DNA information.
So they would put the nucleus of that in another cell.
Exactly. They would take the nucleus of a cancer cell and replace the nucleus of a healthy cell. And that cell wouldn't get cancer. Exactly. And they would do it again and again and again until it can be. And again, and we've known this since the 50s. And in the 1980s, a woman by the name of Dr. Amina Bissell started doing research, um, still ignored today, despite her still being one of the most famous cancer researchers 40-some years later.
She was showing that she could take cancer cells and put them in different petri dishes and say, guys, it's not the cell that's the problem. It's the medium that seems to be making a difference. So she coined the concept of the extracellular matrix. She has this. Meaning outside the cell. Yes. Like, what is it swimming in? What are those cells swimming in? Um what information is it getting? Exactly. And some in that it started to resurrect this sort of hidden.
I mean, part of why we lost interest in Warburg's work is he was controversial in World War II. He was a a Jewish scientist who stayed in Germany when all of his colleagues were either murdered or left.
They must have kept him around because the high-ups thought they needed them.
Well, Hitler had massive fear of cancer. There you go. And the book, um, Sam Apple does the most brilliant book about this whole history. So you can understand why he and his brilliant work fell out of favor, despite him not being wrong, which was more around the controversies of the times, um, which but um Sam Apple's book, Ravenous, really goes into Dr. Warburg's history. So you start to understand the context and why it was fully discarded.
And so Dr. Mina Bissell kind of started making people think about maybe it's not the genetics, maybe there's something more. And then in the you know, 1990s and into the early 2000s, people like Tom Seafried and others started saying, let's go back and let's revisit. We also have new technologies like the seahorse, which is a uh tool to look at mitochondrial respiration and start to look at it in different ways and build on and refine what Dr. Warburg was finding.
Buried, buried, buried, buried, buried. Yet when I got diagnosed in 1991 and there was no Dr. Google, there were no influencers, there were no books really outside of a few like Gersen fought, you know, the the the original Gersen, you know, his book was one of the ones I ran across. And it's funny because we've misinterpreted all of his work today, how Gersen is done today is not the Gersen that it originated from. So pretty interesting to be. Trevor Burrus, Jr.
By the way, a lot of Otto Warburg's work is misinterpreted too. Everyone thinks, oh, it's it's a you know, an acid body causes cancer. It's like, no, no. He was talking about you know the mitochondria going through a very primitive glycolysis creating lactic acid just happened to be the byproduct, but he didn't think that was the cause. Exactly. That just means like firemen are these guys in red suits are around fires, doesn't mean they're causing the fires.
And I love that because we do. We have a lot of what I call internet cancer care from people saying, oh, if you just eat an alkaline diet, you'll be fine. First of all, you can't do that really without hardcore pharmaceuticals to completely change. And we actually went down that road like 20 years ago using hardcore pharmaceuticals to see if we could strongly alkalinize the body. And we killed people. Yeah, we killed people straight out of it. Yeah, exactly.
I mean, being alkaline always is a kiss of death, right? Just being acid always is a kiss of death. Your body goes like this.
And cycles and different tissues needed to be in different things. So, you know, those are the pieces. So that's what was so fascinating, is this started coming back. And weirdly, and I love that you know, you appreciate this because prior to my diagnosis, I grew up in a very, very, very conservative state and conservative environment of religion that did not resonate and what didn't have coherence for me.
So I was actually pretty I would I would call myself probably an atheist at the time of my diagnosis. And it was actually because of my diagnosis that I found like my faith again, right? Like in this really powerful way. And so, not a surprise that the first book after they tell me you're gonna die, and then I get the second opinion, like you're gonna die. Um, you know, and of course I'm getting drunk. I mean, I was it was I was sick.
I mean, I I really did think I was I had weeks, months to live. And they did too, right? So, but I went to the library and I ran across this book by a complete unknown of the time, couldn't even pronounce his name, Deep Pak Chopra. Oh yeah.
Right.
I mean, so crazy to think about this. And a book called Quantum Healing. And that's when I sat down, or I sat down and read that book in two hours on the floor of my little library in the fall of 1991. And it was like, it just made me hungry to get, I was curious, like this is the answer. Using the microfiche and the Dewey Decimal system in my little library in my college. I remember microfiche.
I used to use microfiche.
That's when I started running across the work of Mina Bissell. That's when I started running across the work of Otto Warburg. That resonated with me more because this is long before I knew about my Brockogene, all these other pieces. I didn't even know about my mom's cancer history. I didn't know any of these things. I'm in my own research. That's when I ran digging in. I'm digging.
And one of the people I learned about early on in those first few months was a man by the name of Dr. Robert Ader, who was the man who coined the concept of psycho neuroimmunology. Today's modern version includes the neuroendocrine neuroimmunology into this pattern too, which then led me down the rabbit hole of a of a woman named Candace Purt, who wrote a book. Um, it hadn't come out then, but I was reading her research. Her book would later be a book called Molecules of Emotion.
And then that book, or that her research led me into this molecular biologist work of the times, whose book would not come out until 2011. So this is 1992. Yeah. I start running across the work of this guy named Bruce Lipton. Yeah. Biology of belief. Oh, right. Which did not come out to 2011. So look at all of these angels. I say it still gets me so emotional that showed up for me. I would be dead had I gone down any other pathway.
And so one of the first things that happened, people were like, What did you do first? Well, the first thing I did was I couldn't eat for two and a half months. I had a massive bowel blockage.
Yeah. Complete. So you fasted by force.
Yeah. Which completely like helped dry up the ascetes. It would come back less and less frequent, less and less amount. Weirdly, I reversed my cachexia with fasting because I wasn't living on all the ultra-processed food.
Well, you know, it's funny as people say, well, I can't fast I'm underweight. I'm like, well, actually, I can't tell you how many people couldn't gain weight, couldn't get muscle back on, and via fasting, they they do. Right. Yeah.
It's like I set in motion other, you know, pathways that kicked in and became metabolically flexible and metabolically resilient again. And so between that and then I also took a two-year family fast. I it was a time when it was easy to block your number. Family fast, meaning like, you know, not seeing them. I left all of my family of origin. Very far. I know a lot of people or a partnerectomy or a drawback to me. You know, those were the things that were happening for me.
And then the third one is in that first two weeks after my diagnosis, I was kind of in my effort phase of, well, I'm gonna be dead. I've not experienced anything in life. And so I decided I was gonna um try mushrooms, which this is 1991.
Way ahead of the time.
So I didn't even tell this story until mushrooms.
It was just a joyride. It was nothing as far as therapeutic goes.
No, there was no, no, nothing. And I don't even know how I accidentally stumbled upon that. But what was even more weird is I accidentally took a heroic dose, which I did not know. Because when they told me you eat them, I thought I ate the was supposed to eat the whole baggie.
Yeah, I had a heroic mushroom story. Yeah, unknowing, unknowing to me. I was a I was in Jamaica and um I was in Mrs. Brown's famous mushroom umlet place. It's still there today. So I ate my whole I was hungry and I ate the whole thing, and then I I was very hungry. My girlfriend was paranoid of the mushrooms. I was just hungry. I ate half of hers and I drank the tea. Well, let's just say they were peeling me off the floor that night.
Yeah. So I'm wondering, did I wonder if I got any therapeutic benefit out of that? I don't know. But anyway, brain-derived neurofactory. For sure. I did.
Change your life. You know, and that's where I didn't even talk about this part of my story until Michael Pollins' book, Change Your Mind, you know, How to Change Your Mind came out because it was still very I started having patients go into the clinical trials at Harvard in 2011. You had to all be hospice eligible, less than six months to live, no more standard of care, all of them facing their mortality going into this.
I had 11 patients who went through that trial, all but one are here, and that one died two years ago. So I know, which I can now look back. I didn't recognize it at the time. But I think because of the place I was in of not believing there was another way, for me, it opened up potential. The mushroom trip. Yeah.
Yeah. So the mushroom trip allows you to go into that subconscious, right? It's like, so you you're saying it's you were able to see things that you weren't during it, like how like during your I'm gonna call it a trip. Okay. Um it was a trip. Okay, yeah. Yeah. Mine was too, and again, accidentally. But um, and then after or or both?
Um definitely d during, and here's funny, um, the person who was with me who became like my guide, because I went with a small group of friends, um, and they were friends, they were acquaintances, they weren't even friends. They didn't know what was going on because no, I had I was very private about what was happening with me. And the person who ended up helping me through it because it was a rough ride.
It was very I mean, I I did go through my death and I did go through a rebirth in a very, very powerful way. And the person who was stayed with me was like my sitter and got me through it, is the person who I'm now married to.
Oh, wow. That's uh wow, that's that's yeah, I'd like to see that backstory. So because your subconscious is open. So, you know, he's whispering in your ear, you will love me. You love me, you're so attracted to me. You you want nothing more than me. Yeah, oh yeah. I know what he was up to anyway. All right, but what's it moved out for good. It did.
And you know, it's interesting. So there was so my husband Steve, my friend Sean, my friend Belly, my roommate Chad, who um here's the weird thing going through the time. This is a very interesting backstory. So I was going through cancer diagnosis. My roommate Chad was going through AIDS diagnosis. Neither, no people, so he was a gay man at a time when it was not safe to be gay, nor was it a safe time to talk about AIDS in 1991. Um, I had cancer.
We both were basically helping each other through and protecting each other's secret because they had a lot of shame and a lot of uh a lot of taboo around them, right? And so he was there that night. He's no longer with us. He he died a few years after that from AIDS. My friend Belly, who um I knew Sean and Steve and Belly from we all worked in restaurants together, so we all waited tables together and worked there. Belly died a few years after that from stomach cancer.
How ironic that everybody called Chris Belly for all those years. Sean, who was there that night, his wife became a patient of mine many, many years ago, and she just died a year ago, August, from um, she was given like three months to live as well and managed six, I think, six years with stage four breast cancer. Um, and did not, it was not a failure. She had the most amazing life journey and she healed into her dying process.
And so so strange that of those five, and my the man who became my guide and now my husband, what was so wild when I finally told Steve shortly after that experience what I was going through, he wasn't scared off. I mean, what 22-year-old decides to fall in love with a 19-year-old dying woman? Yeah, yeah. But when he was six, His brother was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer, given three months to live.
And Steve always says this, you know, they gave him three months, he gave him the finger, and he went to Mexico. And he lived 24 years with terminal uh pancreatic cancer.
Wow.
That's and so for Steve, he's like, Wow, he's already he'd had an experience that said, you can do this differently. And so again, talk about a gift of someone showing up. So the accidental mushrooms, the accidental fasting, the decision, the choice to stay away from the toxic family environment that contributed to this process and having the one person who was my had my back who was not afraid of it.
Man.
Yeah. So that like full circle when you said, yeah, it's just kind of just, you know, went away. I mean, all of that, I mean, that is that is some God-sized stories. Seriously. Yeah. I mean, to think outside any other way, come on. I know. I mean, God had his hand in it. Every step of the way. Yeah. Every step of the way. And again, I look at how many people you've been able to help, just like myself, pain to purpose, right?
I would never have been able to help the people that I've helped if I didn't go through it myself. You can't even understand it to the level you need to understand it. Can't have the empathy, you can't any of it without going through it.
Trevor Burrus You can't really stand in it with somebody without having that experience. Trevor Burrus, Jr. No.
Yeah. The only reason I can even say the things I say is because the authority that I have, you know, the victory God gave me in it. And that's you. You have such great authority when you speak it because you've been through it. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I like I I've heard parts of your story, but never to that depth. Well, thanks for allowing space. Trevor Burrus, Jr. I mean, with you know, with all those absolute miracles, I'll call them what they are. I mean, those were some serious miracles.
Wow. Okay. So you know, now, when would you have said I'm cured? Like when would you have said because that's a scary thing, right? Because, you know, especially in the cancer world, because you know these things come back, they come back differently. Uh it's like so when would you have said, okay, I feel like now I'm fully victorious? Aaron Powell So there's a two-part to this. Okay.
So the first part is I would say never.
That's a good place.
Yeah.
I mean, meaning that's a good place because you'll never, ever, ever. My biggest fear is going back, by the way, right? You know. So that is my biggest fear. I still have PTSD because, you know, it's like I don't want to ever go back. I can't ever, I'd rather die than go back. Um so that puts you in a place to I live my life very healthy. People are saying you're you're so disciplined. I'm like, no, no. Yeah, you've been where we were, you did, yeah. A little different. It's not discipline.
Yeah.
Well, and for me, like cure means it's gone and it's never gonna be there again. But the reality is we all, all of us have cancer all the time. Yeah, that's right. There's no such thing as a cure from it. It's about there's cancer cells in us right now. Exactly. And how do you then like live with it, like make peace with it, have a a resonance with it? How do you have a sympatico with it? Because it's not a an enemy, right? To be waged war on.
It's it's you and it's an extension of you and how it is expressing is a messenger to you and an opportunity for you. And so I wouldn't say cured. And standard of care in their terminology would likely not say I'm cured. Because there are still things that would make them say they can say cured. Exactly. Yeah, there's that.
When it's not exactly.
So there's that, but there is this place. So my secrecy around it, this is the second part. Like I said, we, you know, even with in college with my roommate and all those pieces, it was like no one. I had one professor know know because I passed out in his classroom pain and he had to call an ambulance. And then basically the ambulance driver had picked me up before and was saying to my professor, Oh, this is what's going on.
And he knew I basically held him to like to the feet to the fire of like, please don't ever share this story. I had one clinician in my community that still knew that I was working with directly. I mean, obviously, people who diagnosed me, they didn't want anything to do with me. When I was still alive, they're like, Well, there's nothing. They no one knew what to do when I was still here. You know?
And then years later, when I got to medical school, one I had one doctor who had the whole truth of my story. Like I had it very contained. Maybe five, six people knew what was going on with me. Some people, like, there would be mentions, like a little, so I think people thought, oh, a little skin cancer or something. Like, if they heard I had cancer, they would make assumptions and it was like cancer light. I don't know what that means, but they would say that. So here it is.
It's about 2010 or 11. This man that I'd loved his book and his work, and it had been very influential in my practice, um, by a man, Dr. David Survey Schreiber, um, wrote a book called Anti-Cancer. And before that, his work, he was a psychiatrist from from uh France, who was the psychiatrist who brought the research and made it uh kind of mainstream that fish oil was far more effective than antidepressants for treating depression. He was part of that movement that started a different dialogue.
But ironically, in his medical school training and through all this, is when they were practicing scans on each other and their brain scan practice, is when he learned he had a glioblastoma. This man had had three different recurrences and surgical resections for, yet was living because on average with treatment, 18 months is as good as it gets for a glioblastoma. It is considered a death sentence across the board. So he was a miracle.
And when he then later wrote the book anti-cancer, he became like a world renowned. He started traveling, he really brought conversation to integrative oncology to the forefront. And it was such an inspiration to read his work about food matters, diet matters, lifestyle matters. He was a maverick in that, right? And so it was so beautiful. It was in around, I can't remember exactly the year, somewhere between 2009 and 11, he died. And his book, Not the Last Goodbye, came out.
And it was that he ended up dying eventually, 17 years after his first diagnosis of glioblastoma, he died of very tumor that he was initially diagnosed with. And he didn't want this book published until after he died. And his biggest fear, and it still gives me chills when I say this, was that he knew that the moment he died, everyone would say, see, it didn't work. Right, right.
But I had that same like reading that book, it was I suddenly realized that I haven't quite believed this process for myself. And I'm so afraid if I speak to it, yeah, that it will all go away. And it was that book that gave me the permission to start to talk about it a little bit with my patients. And it was that moment where I had tried not to see, I tried so hard not to work with cancer my first week in private practice in 2000. This man rolled in in a wheelchair, his wife brought him in.
You tried, but it was your call, like I years, so yeah, so nine, 10 years, like I but I still had like tons. I had a huge family practice, but I also had tons and tons of local people from my tiny town, Durango, Colorado, finding out that, well, this person lived much longer under her care, and this person, and so suddenly all the cancer patients from Durango were coming to see me, living far longer, you know, doing better, coming into recovery. And I kept still trying to deflect it.
That book like brought me out of the closet. And when I started to share that story in 2012, I got brought on to a stage in Denver at a Colorado ovarian cancer symposium. There were three doctors that boycotted the event because they were allowing a naturopath to talk. My talk, they made me repeat it three times because it was like panels in three different rooms happening simultaneously, but nobody wanted to go to the other panels. They all wanted to come hear me.
Because you have to remember the statistics, at least at that time, where there were 24,000 women a year diagnosed with this disease and over 17,000 dying of it. So they were resourceful and scrappy and saying, I need to find hope. It makes me emotional just thinking about it. And here it is, I'm surrounded by all these clinicians, all these patients who wanted to find hope. My they recorded my event, it crashed their website. But that put me on the map.
Yeah.
On the ovarian cancer map, as much as I never wanted to be on that map. And people started coming to me from all over the world to Durango, Colorado, which is about as hard as it gets to get to. Like trains, planes, and automobiles to get there. Yeah, yeah. And I started to really step in to what I came here to do.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
Wow. That is awesome. So living your life today with a full knowing that, hey, you know, it's like I, you know, I'm practicing what I preach, and you know, it's like there's cancer cells in us right now. And as, you know, as long as I continue to do what I do, we'll keep them at bay. I, you know, I agree. I you we could any any of us could have a perfect storm tomorrow. And look at the amount of toxins that as best as we do, we're still exposed to.
Yeah. You know, we're drinking water out of glass bottles in a glass, of course, but it came out of a glass bottle. And, you know, I the lights that we're under we can't um change oftentimes, right? Right. The amount of EMF, moldy buildings oftentimes, even you know, no, we're very conscious about our homes. The amount of toxins in food that we still get, even if it's labeled sometimes organic. I mean, the point is that there's still so much that we're exposed to. Yeah.
Well, it's you know, a very piece on the risk and the exposure. You know, a lot of people we talked about this move movement from somatic mutation genetic theory to metabolic mitochondrial theory of cancer. And in fact, in 2024, Nature published an article saying it's, you know, it's time to put the nail in the coffin of somatic mutation. This really is a mitochondrial metabolic disease. So I feel like a huge victory to be had 111 years later, you know, of here we are, finally full circle.
Yet we're still preaching the old way. Yeah. You know, we're still not quite, hasn't quite been adopted until the old until the old dies.
Most doctors still believe that. Yeah.
Yeah. But here's what's interesting. I want people to understand something about the mitochondria, because you just, you just set me up for this perfectly, which is we uh think about the mitochondria from like our sixth grade biology of the mighty mitochondria makes ATP. Yeah. It does that, but it does that by doing three major things. Number one, job, it receives input. Yeah. It's a receiver of input. Cellular surveillance.
Yes. So it's taking everything water, light, sound, emotions, toxins, nutrients, everything. It takes it all in. That's its big job. So imagine, so just kind of a quick side from, you know, let's say 11,000 years ago, up before 11,000 years ago, we were all hunter-gatherers. We were all kind of on the even playing field of what we were being exposed to, right? It was very simple.
Your local, regional, seasonal exposures, you know, the physical output to live, just to live, to survive, all kind of very, very few stimuli into the system, very, very primal of what we were doing. Then about 11,000 years ago, we decided to throw some seeds in the ground and move into the Neolithic farming era, which that happened through the whole Fertile Crescent, kind of like the Mediterranean region.
And what was interesting about that is that was the first time we evolved into a new genetics, which was the HLA gene, human leukocyte antigen gene. That's when people like you and I started getting our genetics of autoimmunity and um vulnerability to molds, vulnerability to viruses, vulnerability to grains, to gluten in particular. That didn't arise until then. So it's like, oh, here's some new input. And that completely changed us from that new input.
Fast forward, the next big change didn't happen until about 18, mid-1800s, when we started into the Industrial Revolution, moving into how we started to mill grain, sugar, and flour, and it started to show up everywhere. And now we started getting into move into the latter part of the year, started moving to shipping and refrigeration. And suddenly we can all be exposed to a lot more things we were never exposed to. Yeah. Exactly. So more input.
People like Dot Pottinger and Dr. Um Weston A. Price started sounding the alarm saying, we're getting sicker, folks, something's changing. Yeah, yeah. That was then. Those poor guys are flipping in their grades. Yeah, what's going on? And then we really didn't have another big, big change until World War II. We alluded to this earlier, leftover hammer. Chemical revolution. Exactly. Let's go to big pharma, let's go to big ag big changes.
And then by the in that time, if you ever saw the movie The Graduate, we never had plastics until then. But we can all remember in the movie The Graduate, plastics, invest in plastics. That's our future. Well, God is it ever. Yeah. Right? We didn't quite understand its impact.
Or in the 1940s, when we started putting every single woman, basically from the mid-1940s until the early 1960s, on some form of DES to help prevent it, just like was given out like candy because we thought we were doing women a favor by preventing miscarriage. And so we started doing that, which then the fallout of that is just been generational. So it's like, and then we never had hormones until the 1960s.
We started like, women are a former fragmented shell of themselves when they go into menopause, some guy who was getting paid by big pharma. Here you go. And like the it just kept going. And then Dr. Huber, my one of my mentors, um, emerettis from Purdue in the late 60s started whistling, blowing the whistle on this research being done in a lab around this chemical called glyphosate. He's still alive, he's in his 90s, he's coming to my conference in a couple of weeks, um, in his 90s.
Still, he's at his life, by the way. Uh attempts on his life happened multiple times over his career. Um, you know, glyphosate is now, as you said, ubiquitous in our environment. It is in our rainwater, it's everywhere. Big change. And then another big kabam is what happened in the last five years. And the last five years of bringing an experimental, um, not a vaccine, an experimental micro RNA into the play, into the swimming. I was gonna ask you about it. Yeah.
Because now we have turbo cancer.
We do, and turbo cancer is, you know, we all were hearing murmurings of this, but because I train so many clinicians all over the world, we have a HIPAA compliant forum where we can communicate without being shut down. So I have over 1,200 clinicians in 46 countries. So it's not my thoughts. It's not, you know, just a USA issue. We're talking to clinicians from nature paths to MDs to DOs to conventional oncologists. We have PhDs, we've got them all in this room.
We're collecting all of our data and we're seeing the same things. And what we have been learning is we've now, just like the HLA new gene, we now have these immunosubtypes coming to light, these IgG4s, which are um immunoglobulin subtypes that are now being turned on and staying on. That's the problem. Yeah. The infection brings it up and it goes blip and then goes back out. The injection makes it go blip, hang out longer, and then maybe go out, unless you're a long hauler.
But multiple injections and boosters stay on.
Yeah.
But when you just go, if your listeners just go and take a look, go through the PubMed data of IgG4 and cancer, you will you'll your sphincter will clench. The other thing it's done, and we know now, is there's this concept called the P-I-K3CA genetic like um molecule for cancer. It's a big drink cancer driver, known for some time, even before COVID, that it is a driver of about 70% of cancers.
And it's in the same pathway as mTOR, insulin growth factor, so very metabolic in nature, the spike protein just turns that, amplifies that messenger. Wow. Big time. Right. So now you, if you aren't taking a metabolic approach to your cancer, if you are not heading that off at the past, you will not change the outcome. And then the third big one that we know, and there's even more, but this is these are the big, big three. We now know the spike protein.
And so now you've heard me talk about the importance of mitochondria, sits on complex one of our mitochondrial pathways of energy production. So not only is that a problem for cancer, that's a problem for life.
Yeah.
Life absolutely. So the input of information has changed drastically over human humanity's time. And so I want those were that's the number one thing that the mitochondria does is it's that cellular um surveillance. Surveillance. So we've had so now I've given you very clear examples of what didn't exist and now does that has changed us forever. Yep. The second job is to translate that data, right? And so if you're if your Google translates working well, maybe it can make sense of it.
But there's even jammed signals there, thanks to things like the EMS and whatnot or other toxins that are blunting the translational effect. And then the third job of the mitochondria is to communicate back out, signal back out.
Absolutely.
So you can imagine that there are vulnerabilities along any one of those three pathways. So it's no wonder to people like you and I that we are sicker than ever. And so a good example is that when I left medical school, we all knew that cancer was a disease of the aged. I would speak at conferences in the early 2000s and say to a room of 500 people, how many in here have experienced cancer firsthand, you know, or someone very near and dear to you?
Maybe 10, 20% of the room would raise their hand. I have to ask the question differently.
Yeah, you have to ask the opposite. Exactly.
And I get that same number. It's completely flipped. The other thing when I left school, the average age was 68. The average age of cancer diagnosis was 68. Today the average age is 48. So we put people like, why are we getting younger and younger cancers? We think, so then there was a great study that came out. They're like, well, maybe it's a genetic thing. I'm like, are we seriously having that conversation?
But think about now that you understand all the input and the mitochondria, why we're getting cancer younger and younger is because our mitochondria are older and older earlier and earlier. Of course. So we're aging our mitochondria faster than we can adapt to and keep up with. And instead of having youth on our side, which we could get away with eating crappy and doing all the things and staying up all night and all the things all of us, you know, did, you don't have that grace anymore.
Let me tell you something. The mitochondria is the most sensitive to these toxins. Other Warburg, back to him, right? He realized at one point that it was a toxin that affected a single fat in the mitochondria. And it's like he realized when that fat started oxidizing, it would start to go into this primitive cascade of how it made energy. And it was like he realized this is somehow certain toxins are doing this. And um, anyways, I was just brilliant. But again, we pushed that work to the side.
Now here we are going, oh, the mitochondria is the problem. You know, I'm working with a group out of Europe, a huge group. Um, this whole topic of the spike proteins and you know what what's happened concerns me greatly. It should. Trevor Burrus, Jr. They they found three, and there's been 17 different studies, and they're very well funded, but um three categories that they're seeing, right?
And it's not like you m doesn't necessarily move from one to the next, but there's the category of mitochondrial damage in the sense that it's called dysautonomia, where the mitochondria thinks it's going to dangerous. And so it people are there and they're in this disautonomious state. What does that mean? Fatigue, thyroid conditions, adrenal problems, just don't they're they're common as I just haven't felt the same since COVID, right?
Um and by the way, they find people that went through COVID hard and vaccinated group, they're both subject to that. And then the second group is the one that they move into mast cell activation. Yes. All these autoimmune conditions. Hypersensitivity. Absolutely, yeah, hypersensitivity. And again, the heart conditions can go across all of this. And then the third are these turbo cancers. You know, so it's like that's what's happening. And it's happening more now than it was even a year ago.
It's like this escalation of heart attacks, strokes, uh, autoimmune, you know, all of it. And now turbocancers, um, you know, this dysautonomia. I I'm scared for society, I am.
Well, and this is why I'm so grateful for colleagues like you and the communities you educate and empower, for me and the communities I educate and empower, the people I get to meet like us out there of the communities, you know, because we're all kind of doing our part and we're starting to find each other and link arms. Yep. And so coming back to, and you talked about NASHA, are you cured? I'm gonna share something very vulnerable for me. And that I never I never got the vaccine.
In fact, my husband and I partially moved to Mexico to avoid that because I travel so much for work. I was not going to, I I I couldn't get out in and out of the US without it. So it's easier for me to get and out of Mexico with just doing a test before and after. So that was our home base. I knew my medical history, I knew my autoimmune history, I knew my LHLA status, I knew all the things that I was not going to take and experimental anything because I know how sensitive I am to everything.
I've always, my whole life. If I'd been a canary in the coal mine. So I'm like, I'm not wanna be a canary this time. But even with that, what would happen every time I got on an airplane? Every single time, I would get sick. Yeah. Something weird. It was like, what's happening? Yeah. Never take. Now I did end up with COVID on three different occasions, most recent one being this last April. Um, fair like I wouldn't have even known outside of the one the first time I had it.
My pain, what happened is all of my symptoms localized to my right ovary.
Wow.
That's when I was exactly. And that was in 20, um, that was in uh 2020. And I had definitely what I would call, because I wouldn't call it a recurrence because I would never say I was always completely intermission, but I had a flair. And I had the tools, I knew what to do. And it was like, that was interesting. This is well before we started hearing all these things and putting some pieces together. And I'm like, I didn't even take the injection, and I had a very minimal infection.
Whoa, that's when I started getting nervous, right? The second time I had it, I got to do that one pretty good, except for then I ended up with stuff for the very first time in my lungs. So in April of 2023, I went to do a pre-nuvo and for the first time I saw stuff happening in my lungs. And I was like, Whoa. Well, I'd been carrying a lot of grief. I'd been carrying a lot of grief. What was happening in the world, what was happening in my patients, what was happening in my daughter's office.
Exactly. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And so I worked on that in April this year. I got COVID again right before I had hit the road for six weeks. Now, luckily this time it didn't flare as cancer, but it flared as like I started having all these weird other symptoms, like these new patterns. And so I'm like, I'm realizing even when you're doing the best you can, so I have to actually take 2026 off traveling to see if I can get myself fortified enough.
Cause I was pretty much on an airplane weekly or at least several times a month for the past five years. And I like I know I can't keep doing it that way. I have to fortify more. And I have to go back to the drawing board with all my colleagues and people like you who are figuring out like how because I started bringing in all my hacks and tools. I have a few, like molecular hydrogen, molecular hydrogen tablets work really well for me.
These, these um proteolytic enzyme patterns, these, you know, high, high, high dose, high dose melatonin. Like I can do a lot, you know, for myself and get through things really quickly. But I also know I just have to avoid being exposed.
This group, you're right. And uh when I go on airplanes, I get this mucus in the back of my nasal pathway, right? Near the criboform plate, unfortunately. And I used to think it was from the mask. And then I realized, oh my gosh, it's not. It's shedding. I'm I'm picking up spike proteins. It's like and they're building up. You know, that group is finding these spike proteins in the mucous membranes, senescent cells, which is scary because that can lead to cancer and other problems.
Uh and so in specific tissues, obviously some heart tissue, et cetera. But again, as you point out, the mitochondria. So that that's the scary part. And they're the first group to have a test. This test is measuring actual spike protein, um, not the antibodies. Good. And it won't be in the U.S. for about a year. Okay. They are afraid because it is a test you can tell if someone was vaccinated or not, because there's two spike protein, a double proline.
I know exactly.
Yeah, and then the regular one. So the people will have them and have the regular one not. And so you know, then the studies are more studies are going to start to what is the vaccinated group not necessarily.
So they're afraid they're gonna be shut down when they get started.
Exactly.
So well, just so you know, I will send everyone, myself included, to Europe to get these tests. Yeah, no, exactly.
Right now you can get it in Germany and Italy and a few other places.
But probably know who the group is and carry out.
And uh so but it was, you know, in our group, um, because we're the first test group in the US, my doctor group, and um it was pretty interesting. Uh people who traveled a lot had higher spike protein. Um no one in our group had super high levels like so oftentimes in the the public, you would have probably because you guys were a little more educated and prepared. Yeah, no, no doubt. But it's like you could tell who traveled a lot, right?
Like I had a higher level in the group, in the group, not again in society. But and then so they've discovered some very unique ways of getting rid of it that are not being talked about yet. Oh, good. And so that's going to come up. Uh-huh. Good. And um, they have a lot of studies behind it. But everyone's going to need to do these spike protein detoxes.
Yeah. And I I can tell you too, the um a lot of people talk about the natokinase, but in their study, they the natokinase broke up the spike protein too much and created more cytokine reactions.
That's what I was experiencing for myself.
Yeah. And you have to use it with a lot of good binders and chelators, et cetera. Um, they just kind of said don't use it anymore, right? But I'm like, well, there might be a way. But anyway, bottom line is that this is a big problem. It is a global problem. This is a global problem. Yeah. And it's only getting worse, not better. And we're not being told the people that are sick because of it. They're just being pushed on.
And you and I, I mean, we cannot even have this conversation in our social media um platforms for we will be deplatformed.
Yeah, no, I know. It's it's that's a again, I we've come a long way. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, i if you even mention certain things, you'd be shut down, right? So we've come a long way. But we are still afraid. We still have to be smart. Drug companies still pull a lot of weight, and this is a cash cow. I mean, this is a big deal. So we have to be really careful.
I'd love to bring my network into yours to to be part of this solution creation and test case.
Yeah, we might be able to make that happen. Yeah. For the sake of time, because I had so many things I wanted to talk about. Apologies. No, no, you and I could go on. We said that. We'll just do a part two. Okay. I I feel like dang it. Okay. So but let's quickly talk about it. Fasting. Good for every cancer, some cancers. Um, you know, I'm a big proponent of fasting, but I'm also realized that it's not for every cancer.
And even then, the the fact of like what if it's not, you you don't really have a cancer type that it's n that it's bad for. You just have to be in the end of one with the patient to see if is this creating more stress in the body? Yeah. And so things like heart rate variabilities, our blood tests, you know, the the just monitoring ketemojos and CGMs can help us know are we getting a pushback?
Because here's the thing is if you can suppress the insulin, but then you're boosting cortisol, you're still feeding that insulin glucose and IgF pathway, which could go into that PI3KC pathway and whatnot. So we, it's not a black and white, it's let's look at the data and see what the feedback is on that pretty readily. But I would say like everybody could handle every single day a 13-hour fast. Like I think that's just like the huge.
And then a couple times a week, a 16, 18 hour, and once a week a 24 hour. And my patients that are going through cancer, I really encourage them. This is even Walter Longo's work and Seafried's work, um, you know, a three to five day water fast a month during cancer, cancer treatment, and for upwards of six months after. But what's so funny is most of my patients say, I'm gonna keep doing it. You know, I'm gonna keep doing that piece.
And it's it just helps reset the microbiome, reset the blood, the bone marrow, uh, potentiate the therapy, um, help them become more metabolically flexible so they can shift in and out of fat and um sugar burning as needed. And then their own body gets to be wise of doing it in a way that doesn't cur create too much stress. And that it's like their bodies go, okay, I hit day three and I don't need to go to five, or I hit day five and I feel like I could go to ten.
You know, there's it's gonna mix and match in there. But ideally, at the very least, I think fasting for every single patient going through chemo is a must. Yeah, no matter that.
I mean, you know, because it makes the bad cells more vulnerable, good cells better. It's like it's like a Trojan horse.
No, okay.
So the part of fasting and deep ketosis, if you will, right? Low carb, higher, higher good fats, um because cancer cells love sugar, right? So we're minimizing its food. However, Thomas Seyfried and others showed that it can shift over to burn uh individual amino acid glutamine, right? Exactly. So if you're you can go into that catabolic state and it could feed itself, gluconeogenesis, even, right?
So is that probably when you are saying this the fast could be too much stress, they could be losing too much muscle and not getting into a fat burning mode? You know, because I teach people how to utilize looking at their ketones to make sure their ketones are rising, the glucose is dropping. Exactly. Some people don't enter that. They're very toxic, they can't enter that. But we should see glucose dropping and ketones rising as a sign that the body's not going gluconeogenesis. Exactly.
That's exactly. And and that's why we look at a GKI, which is that index, the comparison of that. And so just so your listeners know, uh, the average American, and this is likely for any westernized environment, the average GKI, glucose to ketone index is 25 to 30. So we the only way we can prevent all chronic illness, prevent this isn't even treatment, is to get it under five. Yeah. So that just shows you how far off the res we are with us. Way off. Way off.
Way off.
And when we get into the cancer treatment, I like to keep my patients.
And by the way, just to say what that number is glucose and ketone ratio.
I believe I'm trying to remember the equation. I think it's glucose divided by ketone bodies, or maybe vice versa, equals a per you know, uh, uh, uh, a you know, this number that you want under one of the things I always can say is to know you're if you're in max autophagy is a one-to-one ratio.
Yeah, but you have to take glucose and divide it by 18 to get the same millimeter.
That's what I was missing is that was like a missing one of the numbers in the equation there. But this is what's so great is that you said like as long as ketones are high and glucose is low, you're in a nice state. But if you're both ketone high, glucose high, that's a problem. Yeah. Or if you're ketone high and glucose is not budging that much, it's okay, but it's not budging much. That could be showing gluconeogenesis. That could just be showing that you're stressing the body more.
And then there's ways around that.
I mean, you know, Volter taught teaches a partial fast where you're feeding some. Yeah, like a 500 calorie. And a lot of those people do better with that, you know, and some people do great with pure water fast, right? But you know the numbers. You can go to uh keto mojo and get one of these glucose monitors, keto monitors, and be able to do that. Okay, sake of time. Yep. Uh there's let's see, there's so many different things right now. Oh, I mentioned uh B17, aka amygdala, layotrill.
Um, you know, have you used it? Is there do you give it a thumbs up?
Would you like to so gosh, I mean, this has been one of the first ones I ran across back in 1991. I was reading about and people like Ralph Moss, who's become a good friend of mine. He he's one who worked at Sloan Kettering and you know was like supposed to be writing a diss about it. And when he started doing his research, realized. Wait a minute, some's here. So he then, you know, wanted to have his information printed and they basically fired him.
And that set Ralph Moss off on his entire path of who he is today of being such a uh, you know, looking for answers in the oncology space. But that being said, as long as I've been at this for over 30 some years, I have seen I've seen patients take all the apricot kernels and all the things and do all the injections of it and the oral of it. And I gotta say, as much as I want it to work, I don't see it do much clinically, which is weird. Um, I have seen toxicity. I have seen people overdo it.
I do not recommend people eat the apricot kernels. I've seen people go into cyanide poisoning. That's not good. Um, especially if they're more if they've got a layer cake. My guess is what was working in the earlier years of Laetrol was because we didn't have as much toxic burden as we have today. Interesting. Yeah. So I think that maybe why I don't see the act of the world.
Yeah, because there's all these people out there that it got them well, right? Yeah.
But where I'm not sure. But I'm not in the space of being able to utilize it. No. And so all of my integrative oncology like rock stars, they haven't seen it either. We have these conversations, but there is a couple of places where I do think it has utility in the IV form in blood cancers. It seems to have its highest utility. So for those leukemias, lymphomas, maybe multiple myelomas, I've seen some pretty interesting um outcomes and data there. So to me, it has a time and a place.
Um, but you also need to work someone who knows what they're doing with it because cyanide is no joke.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What about okay, vitamin C, right? High levels of vitamin C. And then I there's ozone treatments too. What about these things?
So IVC, my gosh, Dr. Hugh Reardon, um, his clinic in Wichita, Kansas, started doing the early research because you know, he picked up on the work of um uh oh, for Pete's sake, I just can't believe I lost his name just now. Ubline is polling. Okay. The big guy's like, wow, the big name there, uh, who was doing in all the orthomolecular docs. He they, you know, he started picking up on their work and started applying this in IV forum in Wichita, Kansas, back in the 70s or 80s.
In fact, they're getting ready to have in the 70s because they're getting ready to have their 50th anniversary in November, which I'll be attending that conference along with a lot of other people from around the world who've utilized IV vitamin C. It has had dozens and dozens of clinical trials in major academic institutions, University of Nebraska, University of Kansas, others. It has like one of our, like we know this does something.
Um, it induces something called feroptosis, which you only didn't even have a word for until 2011. We're now understanding that it helps us harness the power of iron, excess iron storage in the body and turn it into a smart bomb and directly go after um the cancer cells. Our healthy cells have the ability to degrade and like work with and interface healthfully with vitamin C, whereas cancer cells don't have the same, you know, enzymes in their cell walls. So they get broken up with it.
So it has massive utility and there's so much misunderstanding. Conventional oncologists tell people you can't do IV C, it's an antioxidant. It will disrupt or abort your response to chemo or radiation, which just tells me they did not pass their redox chemistry courses. Yeah. So high dose IV vitamin C is very pro-oxidative. It is, yeah. And will be potentiated with things like radiation, chemotherapy, hyperbaric oxygen. So it is a powerful stinking tool to use as a pro-oxidant therapy.
Okay. And that brings up other oxidant therapies, uh hyperbaric, um, just ozone therapies, which give off uh singlets.
Photodynamic therapy, sonodynamic therapy, even high therapeutic ketosis creates a lot of reactive oxygen species. So here's the crazy part. This is where Dr. Siefried's talked about this, and what I train my doctors in is our standard of care approach, and frankly, most alternative or integrative oncologies, oncologists are really good at high oxidative therapies. And they don't understand that there is a time to push.
Yes.
And a time to pause.
Yeah, absolutely.
And most people, even if they're doing all the things that are in the middle of the year.
By the way, that's the way I teach detox. Push, push, pause. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Because that it's that is an elegant, yeah, nuanced art of medicine that you have to really be paying attention. And this is the place that even natural therapies can be too overwhelming to the body.
A thousand percent. Yeah. It's, you know, it really there's an a science and an art to this, just like detox, and that's the way I teach it. It's like there's a science and an art, right? It's like there's certain things in the science part we follow, but the art is being able to watch your body and go and look at the hormitic effect and say, too much stress. We need to back down. Exactly.
Exactly.
And this, even to the point of like the question about you mentioned earlier about glutamine and some of the other like methionine and lysine and you know, um, there, or excuse me, arginine, there's a few different amino acids that get concerning that the body can take up those amino acids and feed the cancer, or things like uh certain fats, um, fatty acid um ox, you know, oxidase or any of these things could be taken up by the cancer cells, or even uh um too much of the uh you know, the apopto,
too much of the clean out of the body can be taken up, the debris can be taken up by the cancer cells. If you push anything too hard, it will have a workaround. And so watching for that before it's a problem, anticipating that and changing course before you overdo the fasting, overdo the glutamine um depletion through like the drugs, or overdo methionine restriction. Because guess what happens? If you glutamine restrict with the pharmaceuticals, you die. Yeah. Right?
That's why the 2DGs and these drugs have not made it out as much as they have because they're very, very toxic. So you know how to work with it.
They created a drug because it's like, oh, the body uh cancer cells can use glutamine. All right, let's starve the sugar and the glutamine. People die.
And that's why your doc that's where Dr. Seifert started to know, oh, you got to pulse this. Yeah. And that's why like intermittent fasting, because when you intermittent fast, you're not giving it any amino acids. You're not giving it. But if you overfast, you start to break down your muscles to give more amino acids. But it's amazing how to do that.
I'm like, well, yeah, exactly. It's uh yeah, there's a a lot there, right? There's a lot there. Yeah. So you know, two and a half months uh if we do standard of care. Um what are your stats?
So I've had to be very careful with saying these out loud. But because we have data, because we have thousand, you know, well over a thousand doctors collecting this data in hundred, you know, an average of 250 patients a year for each of these, we now have a lot of data. And we're actually getting ready to take our data platform live this year. And eventually in the not so distant future, we'll be publishing on our findings.
But when you take all, let's just use a really good example, because we've been collecting this data for a very long time, just kind of high level, but now we're getting into the nitty-gritty. If you took all stage four cancer patients today, you put them in a bucket and you said how many are alive in five years, what's the percentage that are still here from standard of care? Depending on the research you look at, it's somewhere from five to eleven percent.
So that's their statistic with everything they can throw at it. My statistic is between depending on the way we look at it, 67 to 76 percent. Okay, I'm going to you, right? Right? Yeah, so how do people find you? Yeah. So they find me through you can there are multiple ways, but you the price simplest is just start with um drnasha.com, dr-n-a-s-h a dot com. Drnasha.com. Because it'll take you down all of the other. Is it D R Yeah, D R N A S H A, no dot, no full out of the thing.
So D R yeah.
And so that's a starting point because you can get into our newsletter, you can find about our data platform, you can find out about our product line, you can find out about our education platforms for doctors, allied teleprofessionals, advocates, and lay people. You can find out about our nonprofit, which is where we do our research and also where we do our patient grants.
You can find out about the conference we are hosting, which I know it's it's the season, but it's also available virtually on the 10th and the 11th in Tucson, Arizona, Metabolic Health Day, the best of the best in metabolic health, environmental medicine, regenerative agriculture, and mental health coming under one roof. That's awesome. Amazing human beings.
So I'm telling people to have watch parties because you can all get together, your friends, your family, your patients together and learn if you can't be there in person. Um, and so it there's a lot of ways. And what I'm excited about is I keep connecting with my colleagues like you that help me feel hopeful because it's always been tough, but these last few years have been a little scarier. Right.
And I'm so appreciative to know that like you just got my heart so aflutter with what you're doing out of Europe right now. I want to talk offline a much more about that too, eventually. But yeah, there's a lot of work still to be done.
Yeah, there is. Yeah. The there's so much that just COVID brought, let alone all the toxicants that we're exposed to. And like you said, it's amazing we're able to, you know, have not, you know, it seems like all of us would have cancer, but thank God the body heals itself, right? Thank God God designed us to be able to do that. Exactly.
Like resilience is our nature. Gosh, yeah. If we just get out our darn darn way.
Yeah. So it's true.
Yeah.
Yeah. Thank you so much. You've changed so many lives. Yeah. Thank you for all the conferences that you've spoken at, mine included, you know, and just the education that you do. So grateful that you're even today. Finder online. Absolutely. What a blessing, right? What a blessing to uh have answers and to have hope. And again, you lead it because the victory God gave you. Your authority not comes from your years of study, your authority comes from the victory God gave you.
So um, yeah, share this video. Always like and share. Uh, people need to hear this message and visit her website because you're going, I I know we didn't get to all of it, but it's all there. Yeah. Yeah. In the conference. Absolutely. So find it on her website. Thank you again. Thank you.
Really grateful. Thank you all.