Hi, I'm Micah and I'm Chris and this is the Dota Box podcast. What's up man? Man, I don't know about you, but this week has been something else. Yes it has. This is actually take two of the episodes because it was wild. They didn't want to record before. I don't know what it was. So we recorded a whole episode yesterday and when we went to edit it, it just wasn't editing. So maybe that's our cue to do a different episode. You know what? Somebody was telling us it's not good enough
and we have to do more. No, I'm joking. So this time around, we were just going to talk about what we were talking about in the old fashioned Dota, but we kind of limited it yesterday since we were doing the normal show. We're just going to talk about the whole thing. We're going to talk about pre-COVID going into COVID, what 2020 was like for us and kind of some of those crazy times that happened. So Chris, 2020 was pretty nuts. Even 2019, like leading into 2020 was
pretty crazy, huh? I will tell you, hands down, 2019 was the worst year of my life. Like I can easily say 2019 was the worst year of my life. Oh yeah? Do you want to digress? Are we going to do Dota Box? Oh yeah. We have to digress, man. I mean, really and truly, that's kind of like, I guess when my marriage started falling apart, like I was working two jobs and my, I'm going to try not to like bash my ex-wife because that's not classy, but my ex-wife was like cheating on me.
And like in that year, being my ex-wife got divorced, I lost my job, right? I was forced to resign because of my divorce. My car died, like all my friends moved away. Like it was, it was just a really bad year. So 2020, when I got into 2020, 2019 was so bad that 2020 actually wasn't that bad. Well, you know what's, we have to talk about this too. And maybe, maybe this is the purpose of this episode. I don't think it is. We'll still talk about 2020. But we haven't told our listeners. We
actually had a hiatus of friendship for a few years. I wouldn't say. Do you want to tell them why? I mean, I'm going to be the first to admit it. I will admit it on the podcast. I will take responsibility on owning 90% of the... Oh, I wouldn't say 90%. I'll fight you on 90%. I'm going to fight you on 90%. I will say, I don't know. You know, you know, we're going to call it 50-50 because there was some stupid stuff going on on my end. You know, okay, you know what, man?
Maybe, which, which stories do we need? Which direction do we need to go with this podcast? Because it's like, we could go either way and it's going to take up the whole time. Well, we're just flowing with, let's just talk about why we... Yeah, screw it. Yeah. Why we took a hiatus. And I'll give you some, let me give you some backstory. Okay. So, I have my ex-wife, which I was dating at the time. Again, I will try to be classy, but she was
very... She did not like Micah and she's very controlling. Controlling. Yep. Very controlling of who I hung out with. So, anytime I would hang out with Micah, it was, like, it would always cause friction between me and my ex-wife. And so, it was, it was nuts. And both Micah and I, we were, we were kind of in different, we were in different places in life. Places. We were still living at the same house together, but I was going to school working full-time
and working an overnight job, which I didn't tell Micah about. And then Micah was in his, I would say it was your first real... Bonafide relationship. Like, I had had other relationships, but this was the one that is like, oh yeah, you think you're going to marry that person? You think you would love and all that stuff, right? So, it was a little different. And not to bash this person too much, but she was not exactly
great as well and really didn't get along with Chris. So, it was like, there was already some tension because, you know, my girl didn't like him and you know how that goes, man. Like, there's definitely that, you know, there's already problems there, right? Like, you can't have your girl and your best friend not getting along. Like, that'll work.
Which I'm so thankful that all four of us now get along. Like, my wife and Micah's, or yeah, my wife and Micah's wife get along and like, I get along with Micah's wife and Micah gets along with Micah. Like, we all, all four of us just have the best of time together. But like he said, his, his girlfriend did not like me and my girlfriend did not like him. And so, you know, when you're in a young relationship, all you want to do is spend time with your girlfriend. Like, no fault
of your own. Right. And so, I just remember there were some, like, just kind of some things going on, like in my personal life that was crazy. And also too, we were both living with Micah's parental units. And so, living at that house was very stressful because you, you were always questioned anytime you were going somewhere or anytime you were coming home. And it was just not a fun place
to live at all. Any, anytime, anytime, any place. And what we're talking about with like the questions, and they might not sound like too much, but it's just like, oh, you know, they'll see like a cup or something. And they'll be like, oh, so you went out to eat, whatever. It's like, so the food that's here is not good enough, huh? It's like, so you had to go out to eat. It's like, well, it's not that. Like, me and Chris just want to go get some like roses or whatever. And, you know,
I remember there was one like Burger King, right? Like, Burger King had that two for five deal. So we're like, okay, let's go get some Whoppers. We come back and it's like, oh, the food's not good enough for you here and all this other stuff. And it was always like, you always got, I don't know. It was all, it was, that's a whole nother episode. We have to do a whole nother just talking episode about that too. Multiple episodes to explain that whole situation.
Yep. We should for sure. So we are both working at Boot Corral and Micah's girlfriend at the time actually worked at Boot Corral. And I don't know if I want to share this part on the podcast yet, but there were some things that I was doing that was not great. And I thought, and I was talking with Micah about it. And I thought that Micah like shared those things with his, with his girlfriend and she went like kind of, I don't know if she went blabbing around or what, but I was like,
No, she definitely did. Yeah, she definitely, she definitely did go around. She was, she was a Gossiper. Okay. So she, she liked to gossip and that whole, you know, from what you've heard about Boot Corral, if you've heard our episodes before and what we've talked about, it was a very gossipy place in the first place. So a lot of times people would get bits of gossip and they would just go around, right? And, you know, without going into too much details, what was going on,
it's hard because my girlfriend came to those conclusions on her own. Like it wasn't anything that I had told, it just happened to be that coincidental, she came to it on her own because of what she was seeing. And she even asked me about it. I denied, denied, denied. She's like, Oh, you just cover it for your friend. Like it's, it's got to be going on. And so you're in that bad position because it's like, no, I didn't tell, but what's Chris naturally going to think when,
when my girl's out there blabbing to everybody, right? Like my ex-girlfriend's out there blabbing everybody and saying like, Oh, this is what's going on. And she just happened to hit it and exactly what was going on, you know, the things that I was involved in it all kind of like, it all kind of blew up. And my, you know, my ex-girlfriend or ex-wife girlfriend, she found out about it. Like she, she broke up with me for a little bit. And like, I, that was the time of
my life that I was like walking away from God and stuff. And so I was just like, you know what, like I'm, I'm just going to 100% like just, I don't know, just kind of, I think I just tried to get rid of everything in my life and shut everybody out, which was, it was just kind of like a
self-protection mode. But before that, I actually got an apartment and moved out on my own because this was the point and you heard us talk about it before where, where Michael was working at the airport and he wasn't home at all because he was staying at his girlfriend's house because she lived right by the airport. And he was basically like becoming the man of the family and like taking care of all of them. And so like, I hardly ever saw him. So we were already kind of like
drifting apart, I guess you would say. Yeah, I would say that. And not just that, Chris talking about going to, so you've heard of us talking about Fat Cat. If you've heard of some of that episode about that character, you know, as much as we liked him, he also caused part of it because he was a pot stirrer. Like he liked to just stir the pot for fun and he liked to just, that's just the kind of guy he was. And Chris would, you know, they had classes and it was in this junior
college that was about 30 minutes away. And so they were carpooled together. Like sometimes, you know, they would go in one person's vehicle or the other. And so I didn't find about this later, but apparently he was telling Chris all sorts of stuff about like, yeah, you know, like I said, this, this and this about you. And you know, there was also some other things. It was believable for you at the time, because whenever I would hang out with Fat Cat too, we'll talk about this too.
Whenever I would hang out with him, it wasn't very good. Like I didn't treat Chris very well. I'll say that that that attributed to it as well. That kind of like, it always kind of threw me off because it was like, when me and you like hung out one on one together, like we were fine. But like whenever Micah got around like Fat Cat and everything, it was, it was one of those things like he, like I was the butt of all the jokes. And most of the butt of the jokes was like about how
quote unquote whipped I was by my ex girlfriend, which I mean, was true at the time. And I just remember like they came in my room and I'm not going to tell them what they did. But yeah, but they like, and like, we talked about it when they took the tailgate off my truck. Right. And that would put all the trash in your, put all the trash. Yeah. Put all the trash in the bed of my truck. Like I wasn't mad about that. It was like, that had been just a culmination of
like everything. And then like when I was on the phone with my ex girlfriend, they would like do stuff to get me in more trouble. And so it was just kind of like a, bro, like what are you doing? And so Fat Cat definitely would stir the pot. And he'd be like, oh yeah, Micah said this about you and like, it was basically like crap talking about the other one whenever Fat Cat was around. And it was just us one on one. And so it, it was not good. Yeah. It definitely put a strain there.
And so what ended up happening, I guess we kind of, kind of got there. So, you know, everything kind of blew up for Chris, right? And that's actually when, you know, I was working at the airport. So I was no longer at boot corral anymore. And, you know, we were, we were still talking and still friends pretty strained. But I remember going to see him because I had heard that he had just been hired to be the assistant manager over at boot corral.
And so like I had some shopping I needed to do. I think I needed a pair of work boots or something. And I, you know, we all worked on commission. So it's like, okay, he's a manager, like, let me, let me go over there and, you know, get him some money, right? Like, you know, that sort of thing, right? Help, help a friend out. So I go in there and like, of course, I still know everybody. And the first thing, I don't know what we call them, do we call them stream bean or what the,
what the heck do we call stream? All stream bean comes up there and he's like, he's like, oh, your friends in there quitting. And I'm like, do what? And it's like, yeah, he's back there quitting right now. And yeah, apparently Chris was in the back room and he was, he was full on quitting. And like, I waited for a while, but I had to go to work. So like, I had to leave. But I was, I was so confused. I was like, man, he's like quitting his job and everything else. Like, I didn't know
what was going on, bro. Yeah. And to be honest, bro, deputy Porcars ratted me out because I talked to him about potentially like quitting and wasn't sure whether or not I was going to stay. And yeah, bro. And then he, and then deputy Porcars, I guess, told everybody. And so I got back to the, to the main manager. And I remember I literally sat in that office for an hour and the main manager
was telling me was like, you know what? You're making a dumb mistake. And if Jesus was here right now, like he'd smack you in the face and tell you that you're an idiot for quitting and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. A retail job. Yeah. A retail job, man. And so I remember, I remember like, he went to go to the bathroom because I felt bad because he was definitely using that manipulation and guilt. And he was like, well, he's like, I guess I'm going to have to stay here and miss
time with my family because you're quitting tonight and all these other people. And so like that made me feel bad. I remember he got up to go to the bathroom. And I remember like, I very clearly heard the Lord say like, what are you still doing sitting here? Like, it's time to quit. It's time to get out of here. Like, you should, you're, you're sitting here way too long. And I was just like, yeah, you're right guys. So I told him peace out. And yeah, people tried to reach out to me, man.
And like, I was just kind of shutting everybody out at that time just because I was dealing with a lot of like personal issues and like a lot of personal pain. And so, and so yeah, man, like, I don't know, bro. I don't know why I just kind of, I felt bad because I just kind of like ghosted Mike. I felt, I felt bad. Yeah. But it was, you know, it was a crazy time. And again, we hardly ever saw each other. And, you know, there was already some hurtful comments made. We had been
in some fights, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't a good situation at all. And once we got to that point, the next time was the last time I saw you before we reconnected later on. And some things had happened. And so his ex-wife, who was then his girlfriend, they actually split up for a little bit at the time. And so like, when I heard that, of course, I had to had to see how he was doing. So he had moved out to his apartment, you know, and by, you know, this point, I wanted to see what
was going on. And bro, I remember that was one of the, it was hard because it was one of like the saddest times I remember, but it was also one of the, like, I was like worried for you, but like, we were still in the out. So it was kind of weird. But I just remember walking in there. And it was, you got to think it was an apartment. He had been in there for a few months. And there was like nothing, bro. I remember there was like a TV on the floor. There was like a small couch.
Wasn't it like a small couch? It was a futon. It was a futon. And I remember it was like, okay, you had the TV on the floor. And I just remember he was like, yeah, the only real thing that I have for fun that I do is he had like this little basketball goal. And he had like a Nerf gun where he would like, there's a place in town where you can get ice cream in the baseball hat, like a little baseball hat. And so he had all these baseball hats hanging on the wall. And
he's like, I like to like shoot those. So we like sat there and we shot those. And the only other thing I remember about that, besides like shooting those things off the wall, was being like, yeah, you want to go to academy with me, I'm going to buy a punching bag. And I just remember you being like, what in the heck do you spend your money on? I remember you were just like, I said that to you. Yeah, you were like, I remember you were like, I, you spend the money on some
stupid stuff. And because it was like a $200 punching bag or something. And to be fair, I did spend my money on some really stupid stuff. Well, you had the money that just blow, you know, yeah, pretty much. But I was just like, yeah, I'm going to go buy this punching bag. And I just remember like, that was one of our last conversations was just like, what do you spend your money on? Like, it was almost that Michael Scott to Dwight Trude's like, I don't
understand what you spend your money on. But, but yeah, like we left after that. And like after that, I didn't I didn't hear from them. Yeah, it was a, it was hard man. And because I actually like, I know it's bad, but I like blocked your parental units and everything. I remember getting a text from a number. And it was like, you don't have to do this. You don't have to, you know, go on this alone and I just remember texting new number who it is. And let me go back. He responded
with this is James. And I was like, Oh, okay, well, all right, cool deal. And you know what's bad? Like the people from boot crowd tried to get me to come back because they made me think that I got this girl pregnant, which I didn't. And so they like, yeah, they like, they like lied to me and lied to me and told me. And what was wild was the person that my neighbor that was downstairs was a member from boot corral. And she actually had that girl like living with her for a while.
And I was like, well, if that actually happened, like why didn't they come knock on my door? I don't ever remember anybody knocking on my door trying to tell me that anything happened. And I was just like, yeah, yeah, it was just some, it was some crazy times, man. They tried to get him back. And it was, it was crazy because like, I'm hearing all this like second hand and you're just like, is you don't know if any of it's true. It was some crazy times, man. But yeah, we didn't,
we didn't talk until how many years was that? I didn't, I've never counted it up. It was five years, five years. So we went five years. And so fast forward to kind of what we were talking about with pre COVID and things like that. I started working in IT, you know, fast forward working in IT. And I get this really good opportunity back up in Lubbock. And I'm like, okay, yeah, like I'm going to go take this opportunity. So I actually moved up there on
January the first of 2021 or 2020, sorry, not 2021. Jeez 2020. And when I moved up there, I was staying with somebody until I can, you know, get on my feet and get a house and to rent and whatnot. And so I was staying with them. And I remember it's like, okay, I got to go on the grocery run because you know, you got to get your basics. Like I think I needed like a toothbrush and some other things, right? So I went to the grocery store and it happened to be the grocery
store Chris was working at. And I really wasn't expecting it, man. But he you walked up to me, like he just walked up to me just real kind of like, Hey, how's it going? And man, it was just, it was interesting because it was like, seeing somebody I never thought I was ever going to see again. Right? Like it was just like, Oh, dang man, like, and granted, I had this sounds kind of stalkerish of me. But like, I would periodically just like run a Google search on Chris, right?
And just see what was happening. And saw that he had, you know, one I had seen that his, his dad had passed away at one point. And then the other thing I had also seen was that he was going through a divorce, like at the time. And so like, I knew that was going on. And so, you know, I don't know. It was, it was very interesting. I didn't know what to expect. Like, when I was first talking to you. Yeah. Did you, whenever you first talked to me, I'm what I was wondering,
it was like, man, because here's the thing. I actually saw you before I came and went up to you, like you came in and you walked around. And I remember just being like, Oh yeah, like, man, this is awkward. I don't know if I should say anything to him. But I just remember being like, I just remember being like, No, like, you should definitely go say something to him. Like, you, like don't be a coward. And, you know, don't, don't just, you know, you need to go say some stuff to
him. And I like, I knew I had messed up and everything. And I was like, man, I don't even know how he's going to react. But I just remember I walked up to it to you. And I was like, Hey, man, like, hope it's all going good and everything. And, you know, you know, and we, and we sat down
we hashed everything out. We talked and, you know, I think a lot of why I are in my, I guess, 19 year old, 20 year old brain, whenever I decided to just shut everybody out, I was kind of like, associating you with your parental units, because I felt like you were super close to them at that time and kind of told them everything. And so that was like also part of why I was like, Oh man,
like, I don't know if I could trust this guy. Yeah, for sure. But, but once we sat down and like hashed everything out, I was like, Oh, this guy is like definitely, you know, like we have both changed. And I took us like in a big way. We have both kind of grown up, I guess, you should say. Yeah, for sure. And, you know, we, we definitely were different people. I'll say this. We, so we decided, you know, we're going to go meet up at Firehouse, which happens to be like
neither one of our wives like Firehouse. So what it's just Chris and I like a lot of times will still go to Firehouse. So I don't, I don't know. I didn't think we were going to start something like that. But hey, there it is. So we, we go to Firehouse and you know, we're talking about us. And I just remember, like I called my now wife, who was my girlfriend at the time. And, you know, I'm like, I don't know what to think about this, you know, like, I'm still thinking about the
Chris from back then, right? And I'm sitting here thinking, you have that hard thought of like, you know, maybe I'm past that, right? Like even though he's reaching back out, am I past that, right? And will the, you know, and somewhat operating out of hurt too. But I just remember like sitting down and it was like we picked up when we left off. Like I just remember being like, Oh, okay, it's, it's a new dynamic. But I don't even remember being, because I'll be
honest, man, I was actually going to go in there and be like, here's how you hurt me. And here's how we need to, and that never really happened. Like we talked about that over time, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, it's like, none of that happened during that time. It was just like, I know I, I know I apologize to you like events, but did I apologize? I don't remember. Did I apologize to you? Oh yeah. No, absolutely you did. Like you apologized to me very, very early on,
like you apologized to me very early on. And I apologize for a lot of my parts very early on too. But it was just, you know, there was a lot to unpack. Like, I mean, I even think about we still unpack some stuff sometimes, like we'll be talking about stuff and be like, Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Like what was that like from your perspective? And you know, none of it's really sore stuff. It's just more, what were you going through? Because I had no clue. It just
seemed very weird at the time or whatever. I don't know, man. It was just awesome. Yeah. Cause, cause you full on, you full on moved out of Lubbock. You moved around the, like the Austin area. And so like, it was different. And like, you know, I wasn't there when you met your wife or was dating your wife. And Micah definitely missed my first, my first wedding when I got married the first time.
But like going through that and like, but it was, it was hard for me, man, because like, a lot of the things that like I went through, like, yeah, I had friends and my ex-wife kind of controlled a lot of who my friends were. But like, I just remember being like, man, like, I didn't have a lot of friends that I could just trust, you know, like I had friends, but they were never like, Oh
yeah, this is my brother. I know this person's got my back. And so it was, it was definitely hard for me, like going through all that, going through my dad passing away, going through, going through getting married and going through the divorce and all that stuff. And you know, because like after my official divorce, like my ex-wife and I were still in communication and Micah like helped me through that and helped me get over that. And he was actually the one that
told me that my ex-wife was on Bumble or Tinder or whatever. So he was like, he was like, did you know that your ex-wife is on Bumble or Tinder? And like, again, we, we hadn't been, you know, we hadn't been that long gone. And like, I found out she was even on Christian like mingle while we were married. So it was like, why? Yeah, it was why. And so I digress and, you know, because I was with somebody at the time, how I found that out was actually through somebody else happened to be
the guy I was staying with was single, right? So he was a single guy. He was on Bumble. And he was actually making fun of her. Like he was like, Hey, look at this, look at this person. Because her bile was kind of goofy and like the picture she chose was kind of goofy. And so he was like, roasting her pretty much. And I'm like, Oh my God, I know who that is. Yeah. And it's like, it's Chris's ex-wife. Was it, was that kind of like a shock to you where you're like, Oh my gosh.
Yeah, especially because we had just, that was right. I mean, it was right after like I had seen you at United. Like, I mean, maybe a day or two after. And I knew because we, you know, had, of course, because I had researched you knew you were going through a divorce prior to, and I think we had kind of talked about it, United like, yeah, like her and I are getting divorced. I think we had kind of talked about it. But yeah, it was, it just happened to, it just happened to be, but I
was just, I knew that you guys were talking, right? And I knew that you guys were thinking about reconciling or trying to make something, it was kind of an interesting situation, right? And then seeing that it's like, Oh, he needs to know because if she's dating around and he's still thinking that, you know, there's a shot and that it's just him, you know, that's something he needs to know. Well, the crazy thing was, and this was like probably a month after that happened,
I was like, you know what, like, I'll give it a shot. I'll give the dating apps a try. And like, I tried and like, like, I saw her on like, I think it was Bumble or whatever. And I remember, like, she called me probably, it was, this was like within like, probably 10 minutes of me like making my profile. And she like called me, it was like, what are you doing on Bumble? Like, I thought you were trying to record. And I'm like, what are you doing on there?
What are you doing there? It was wild, man. But like, I'm just curious to know, I'm just curious to like know your thoughts. So like, after you like saw me and like a couple of days, were you mad? Were you upset? Were you just kind of confused? Were you like, okay, cool? Like, like, what were you feeling like during that time? So it's hard. The way that I would describe it and the way that I talked with, with,
you know, my wife and about it was at first seeing you was like seeing a ghost. And reason being is because Chris and I had such a close relationship. There were so many inside jokes. There were so many things, there were so many things, you know, stuff that happened over the years that you're like, you want to turn to Chris and say, Oh, yeah, you know, this, remember this, this and this, or tell an inside joke or something like that. And you realize like, he's not there.
Right. And you can't just call him up or whatever. So in essence, it's almost like I got almost like you died. And that's how I saw it was like, not necessarily like, Oh, you're dead to me. But like, Oh, you're dead to me. That part of my life is died. Like you're like, Oh, that part of my life. And I told my wife and everything I said, I choose to remember the good parts and not like towards the end. Right. I don't, I don't like thinking about towards the end.
I just want to think about how good of a friendship we had. And you know, I was happy with it's like, most people don't have a best friend like that. I had one for years and through my childhood. And you know, maybe childhood friends just don't last. And you know, maybe that's the truth of it. And that sort of thing. When I saw you, it was like, that was the words that I described it as. It's like, man, it's like I saw a ghost just now. It's like, man, I, it's, it brought back a whole
bunch of different feelings. Right. It was just like, man, I was, I was mad because it's just like, the way that we had left it off. I, you know, I didn't say this. The last time I actually talked to you was right before I said I was going to go off to this university. And I remember I came to one of the grocery stores, one of the locations you were working at and like, tracked you down and like told you before I left, that was actually the last
time I think we talked before then. And that was like months, months into it. Wasn't it? I mean, that was always into. Yeah, I think it was. It was months, months. And so I'm not, I'm not going to get mad because again, it's in the past and bygones are going to be bygones. But I'm curious, like, was your wife like, okay, like, no, like, don't have anything to do with this guy or support. Okay, cool. Just be cautious. I'll support you no matter what or like, how did she feel
about all of it? So she was, she was supportive on my side. She, I don't think she really ever, she didn't think it was right. Some of the things, but at the same time, I don't think she really knew about it. And I mean, immediately, whatever I told her, like, hey, I saw him and we're going to have a meal. She was like, what do you think about it? And, you know, I told her, I said, I don't know. But, you know, I'm thinking, you know, we give it another shot kind of thing. And I
I see here, what he has to say, and we can just kind of talk it out and see. But and then I also told her on the same caveat, like, but if they're if I see some same tendencies from back then or something like that, it's just like, some things that I've grown out of, right? Like, I'm not, I don't want to put you on blast. But like Chris of the past, I'm trying to describe it. How do I describe it? Like, there was just some things that just say it. I don't. But the thing
is, I don't know how to describe it. Like, it's a feeling, not necessarily a, you know what I mean? Was it more like a, like, oh, every time I hang out with this guy, he's going to be holding me back and it's going to make me feel like I'm 15 again, instead of 20, whatever. Is that what you, what you were kind of like, oh, if this guy, all he wants to do is be stuck in the past, then I'm just going to not like, or is it like, I tell you, I tell you what, so we're going to go into a little
something else too. I tried to build the grit, the Chris Void of friendship with another person, right? Like I gained another quote unquote best friend at the time. And I thought everything was okay. But you know, he was one of those very deceptive manipulative types as well. Unfortunately, Chris and I have fallen into that a few times because that's what we were used to at certain
points. But anyways, so I didn't realize that he was kind of jerking me around. And one of the beliefs that I had at the time, because I had just gotten this new job, I had somewhat of status, right? This, this other guy that was my friend at the time who I was staying with, he had a very lowly view of other people. In fact, when I told him about you, like, because he knew about you, like I told him how like we had stopped being friends and stuff and all this other stuff, right?
And he full on said, like, why do you want to be friends with this loser? He works at a grocery store, like he's getting divorced, he's a loser, right? And I wouldn't say that I fully believe that. That's not what I thought. But at the same token, I am sitting here going, you know, I'm, I'm trying to work hard, have this whole thing, you know, you know, I had almost that feeling of if he's not going to be doing something with his life, like, do I even bother kind of thing?
Because I want to do something with my life, if that makes sense. And, and I didn't know if that was the case, because it, you know, when the note that we left off, the Chris that I knew the note that we left off was very lost, like you didn't know what the hell you were doing. I'll be honest, like, I knew none of us did. I didn't know what the hell you're doing. But same time, it's like, we didn't know, you know, I had, I had dreams to be a pilot and things didn't work out. I'm still
working on that, right? We're going to make that dream come true. But at the same time, Chris, you had dreams and aspirations to do some things. But at this point in life, it was like, I don't, and here was another, this is, it's hard because it's like, bro, you're my friend, I want to talk like this. But at the same time, it's like, I was also thinking about you wanted to be a police officer, right? That didn't work out. That didn't work out. There was a lot of
things that you wanted to do that didn't necessarily work out, right? And so it's one of those things of if he's not going to follow through with things and do hard things in life and follow through with it, because that was what I was all about at the time, right? It was getting those hard things, getting that next position, getting the whatever. And you know, you actually help bring me out of that because saying, okay, I'm going to give him a shot and everything. I sat down with you. And
that was one of the first things that struck me is, bro, what am I doing? Like just talking to you, I was like, what am I doing? This guy's job doesn't matter. This guy's status doesn't matter. What he's doing doesn't. He's doing the best that he can. But I shouldn't, I shouldn't judge this guy, you know, like, I'm sitting here going, this is, this is Chris, he's a good man, and good people can be in any profession and do any sort of thing. It doesn't matter about the money
or the status or whatever. And I was kind of lost by that at that moment. But you kind of helped reground me. And in fact, at that point, I was already kind of out of that, coming out of that friendship as well, because of a lot of those things, because of the way that he thought about people and kind of trained me to it was all that like, if you want to be successful, you can't
be hanging around with losers. And to a certain extent, that's true, right? Like you don't want to be hanging around with bums who don't have jobs and, you know, or hanging around all the time and just drinking and party. And like, that is very true. But that's not what Chris was doing. You know what I mean? That's not what Chris was doing. And that's not what Chris was about at all. And in
fact, he was striving for better. And he was just in an in between place, right? That's like the moment we talked, I identified you as being like, you're in a hard spot, you're in an in between place, trying to get to where you want to be. And so it's like, why would I judge somebody for that? You know, and that it that conversation in Firehouse, it was really quick, all that just kind of dropped. Like, I don't have any concerns about that anymore. I'll kind of add my my end of the
conversation. But I do you feel like that, like that friend that you had and your paternal unit was encouraging you to be where you're just like, Oh, I'm just looking for the next position. Do you feel like that was a lot of your influence or you were like trying to prove something to them? Prove something. I also think that it's, it's very easy to get on these kicks where you're like, Okay, this person successful, I'm gonna you're looking for mentors, right? And that's a very,
you got to be very careful with that. You got to be very careful of who you because there's a lot of people who are charismatic, but they don't have the right ideas, right? It sounds great in theory. But and maybe that works for them in their life, but you have to find out what works for you in your life. And I was trying to live their life and what worked for them in their life.
And not mine. And I'm and anybody that knows me personally, and I feel like if you listen to the podcast this whole time, you know, you know me to a certain extent to know that, you know, I don't know what I'm trying to say. The one thing from my side, I was kind of like, going in with it like, okay, like, let's try to, you know, give it another shot, our friendship another shot. And so I was,
I was expecting the, the mica that was attention seeking and had to be in the spotlight. And also the, the mica that was going to be like, oh, yeah, let's go like, let's go play ding dong ditch and
like, take a dump in people's yards and all that stuff. That would be kind of egging you on. And so, but I, when I just had kind of talked with you and you were talking about how your parental units didn't, like, you were kind of distancing yourself from your parental units and kind of how you had to like, you, you kind of like had to experience some hard knocks, man, and like, just kind of how you were talking about like, how your parental units didn't help you with college and
you know, gone through a whole thing with, with that flight school and everything. I was like, man, this guy like has gotten some life experience and like, I feel like it's kind of matured him and you weren't that same person that was like, oh yeah, I got to have the spotlight, nor am I that person that's trying to be like my parental units. And I think that was my biggest concern that you were trying to be like them. And so I was like, okay, like, you know, let me talk with
this guy. And again, we've talked about this, like our friendship is so much better because, because like on the other side of it, when we're going through a rough time or we're going or dealing with someone that's difficult, we're helping each other, not egging each other to like, go give them the middle finger or to like slash their tires and we're encouraging each other to be better and to rise above that level. Whereas like 15, 14 year old us be like, yeah,
dude, just take a dump on his lawn and call his wife up and dude. And so I don't know how to explain it, but yeah, I mean, I was like, for sure, like, I wasn't going to like say anything when you walked in, but I was like, no, like you need to like, you need to not be a coward and you need to like go up and say something to my felt that very strong urge to go up and say something to you. And I was like, man, like, and then we had that meeting at firehouse and you were like,
you were like, man, like just let's just go take a drive. And I was just like, oh, okay, because I don't think you were expecting like for us to have a good meeting and everything. And so even if we did, I was only expecting it to be the meal, right? I was expecting it to be the meal, then we would kind of go our separate ways and you know, okay, I'll probably see him down the road. But it was by the time we were done at firehouse and had to hashed a lot of that stuff
out, I was just like, bro, we got a lot to catch up on. That's the main bit. It's like, I got to tell you about all this stuff because you know, what he's talking about with my parental units and things like that, there was that and so much more like there was so much stuff that had happened in those five years. And you know, not just not just in our personal lives, but people we knew, you know, people we knew from church back in Georgia and everything else, a lot of people that,
you know, so much stuff changes in five years, right? And that was part of the hard part. And what I was really happy about with, you know, giving it a go again was just the fact that I can, you know, if I talked with my wife, who was then my girlfriend about certain people, right, I'm trying to think of some of the people we talked on the show about some people, right, you know, one-eyed Stan or whatever, right? She's not gonna know one-eyed Stan. She's gonna be like,
that's great honey. And like, she'll listen to me, but there's no connection because she don't know what I, she's not, she wasn't there, you know, but Chris was there. Chris was there and knows. And so there's a lot of things that was like, oh man, you know, these experiences happened and reminiscing, but then also talking about a lot of the other stuff that had happened
in the meantime. Well, you also had to catch me up too because during that whole time where I was with my ex-wife, even dating, like she, like she basically made me get rid of my Facebook. And so I was, I was disconnected from the world for a good five years, dude. And you want to, like, you want to talk about like something that's eye-opening or like shock, like I was like, I wasn't in prison, but I could only imagine what it's like, like coming out and then finally
learning all this, like I found out that one of my classmates committed suicide in 2016. And I didn't find that out until 2019. Like I didn't know that. And it was someone that I knew really well. And I was just like, oh my gosh, like I had no, and so like, I was like, this happened three years ago and I'm grieving this like three years later because I just found out. And so there were so many things that I didn't know. And Micah had to catch me up on. And so I was like, oh, like,
and he was like, you remember this person? Do you know that did, and I was like, no, I had no idea. Cause at that point, I just recently got a Facebook and an Instagram after I got divorced. Yeah. So it was, it was a very interesting. It's like, bro, we got to talk it. And I don't know, man, driving around that was, I was really happy. That was one of the happiest I had been in a while to that point, just because it was, I don't know, man. The other friendship wasn't ever right.
Right. It was, I was always trying to make another crisp, but that's not how it was going to work. It's only one of you. And you know, it was, we needed that time though. And I think we agreed to that, right? That we both needed that time to step away, have our experiences, our life experiences, because I didn't just experience hard knocks. I know you experienced hard knocks too. Like, I mean, you experienced a lot obviously with the divorce, but there was a
lot of other things in between there as well. And, you know, it shaped us into who we are today. I'm glad, I'm going to stop here too. I'm glad that you had the courage enough to come say something to me because, hey man, this podcast might be not happening, right? And it might be longer than five years to this point. But, you know, it's crazy to think about the fact that we've been, you know, back, back talking and back real close for, you know, since 2020 now.
Yeah. I mean, and again, most of it was like dumb kid stuff. And like both of us, we went through some, I wouldn't call them traumatic as much for me, but definitely Michael for sure, traumatic things. And like as a kid, it was just kind of like, oh, like, yeah, bro sucks that you went through that. But as an adult, like you can help each other process things and help keep each other centered and like thinking back some of the stuff. I'm like, man, I should have called the cops like,
but you know, like you're a 12 year old kid and you don't know any better. You don't know anything. And so it's like, and we didn't, we didn't also know, we thought that was normal. I mean, as bad as it is to say, you think all that stuff is normal. What are you going to do? Right? Anyways, it's, it was just crazy times. It's, it's crazy to think back about a lot of that stuff. And it really, you know, I'm glad that we went through it as hard as it was. But you know, again, we came
out the other side. And if we didn't go through that hiatus, you know, I don't know. Again, I don't know how it would have turned out. And I think it everything went according to plan. Kind of going back. And again, I'm not trying to make this about my divorce, but Michael was talking about that time where, you know, me and my ex wife were still possibly thinking about reconciling. And I remember, I remember telling her that like me and you were friends again and bro,
she like, she flipped her lid. And it was crazy. I remember thinking like, Christopher, if you go this route, like you're going to have to make a decision between your best friend and her. Like, you're going to have to make that decision. And I remember I like made it in my heart. I was like, I'm not going to pick her over my best friend again. Like, and I remember like really and truly
being like, you know what, like my best friend is what's most important to me. And that was kind of the deciding factor, not to be gay or nothing, but like, but, but I just remember being like, I know for sure that it's, it's not going to work to have both. I knew that I couldn't have both in my life. And I was like, man, I was like, I'm not going to throw my best friend to the wolves again. I'm not going to, I'm not going to do that. And so, and I'm glad I'm glad that I chose not to do
that, man. And therapy helped a lot. I will tell you, therapy helped me tremendously. But I, and I remember us going to Paladero Canyon. And I remember you just having that conversation with me and you were like, man, like I'll support you no matter what. And I remember just being like, no, like I can't, like I can't give up this friendship. Like I'm sorry. Yeah. And I remember you telling me and about how she flipped her lid and everything. And,
you know, it was a concern for me. It's like, man, what if this happens again and whatnot? And, but at the same time, how I felt about it in that conversation that I told you was, was, I felt that way. It's like, I was willing to even give her a second chance. Like even if it was even if she was mad to begin with, it's like, it's Chrissie's that I'm a different person. I can show her I'm a different person too. And if that's what it takes, fine. Right. And I was willing to
to try it out even, right? Like it's like, even if they do give back, I would be willing to try it out. And it was, it wasn't even just you, bro. Cause here's also a thing. I wasn't allowed to do anything. So you couldn't even go to McDonald's. What are you talking about? I couldn't even go to McDonald's because she'd be like, Oh, you've worked with the wait or the cashier worker. They don't have waitresses there. You've worked with the cashier worker. And I'm like, nah, I'm just
going to McDonald's. She'd be like, Oh, why do you go to that? When do you know somebody that worked there? Bro, it was always fights over the stupidest stuff. But like, she didn't want me to play video games. Like she did not want to date a guy that played video games. And I, I, unless you live under a rock, like 95% of guys play video games, some kind of video games. And here's the thing, like I wouldn't even play that much. Like I wouldn't play as much as a lot of people.
And so I remember when she found out that I got a PlayStation. Oh, bro, she flipped her life. She was upset. Yeah, she got, huh? About the PlayStation. Yeah. Cause she was like, she was like, Oh, she, she was like, Oh, so you're just going to be one of those video gamer guys that, that doesn't want to make time for his girlfriend and da, da, da, da, da, da, da. And bro, she would bro, she would keep reeling me in because she would, she would change her behavior just enough
to think that I, that's for me to think that she had changed. But then whenever we had an argument or something, it would go right back to how it was. And I just remember being like, dude, what am I doing? Like it's time to just peace out. Like it's time to take care of me. And so being on the other side of that and Michael really helped and definitely during COVID. I mean, I think,
because that year 2020, Michael went through a lot of crazy stuff. And I remember just taking drives out to the middle of nowhere, like in Bluette, New Mexico and just talking because like, because Michael just had a lot going on. We both had a lot going on. And so it was just nice. And there was this place called Bluette, New Mexico. And I promise you, it is like, if you blink, you'll miss it. I promise you, like there is, there was like one building out there and it's in
the middle of this. And it's, it's somebody's farmer's field. It's the middle of a dirt, like, not dirt road, but a pavement. And I promise you, no, like electricity, power lines, no, nothing, you can't hear anything. Like you can yell whatever you want and it doesn't echo. It's just, it's that, it's a big void of space. So we would go out there and I'm sure whoever's farmer was in that house got to hear some weird things getting yelled. But you know, there,
that's something else too, living over there. You would, I would have such bad days to be like, Chris, I need to get out of the time zone because the time zone changes when you go to New Mexico. And so it's like, we would travel to New Mexico and be like, yep, that's how you know it's a bad day when it's like, man, I need to get out of the time zone. But yeah, those, those are crazy times, man. But you know, I'm glad that we got through them. I'm glad that we got through them.
And but yeah, man, I'm good to call it an episode if you are, I think that sums up a lot of it. And yeah, crazy times. Chris and I, he commuted Kato five whole years. But you know what? I think the last few, you know, we've been, we've been stronger than ever friendship wise. It's been, it's been really great. Obviously we've started a podcast and, you know, we had tvtrashcan.com for two years. And we got, well, we got, we both got married, not to each other. Yeah, no, no, to,
to women, to ladies, to women, to our wives. What else happened? There's some other stuff that happened. That's another episode. I moved back out of Lubbock. So yeah, you moved out of Lubbock. I mean, it's just wild. Oh, I changed jobs, changed careers. Hey, shout out to chasing your dreams,
man. You know, I kind of go back to what I was talking about before of what I was worried about about you not falling through this man followed through, because if there is anything that's been consistent in his life, he's felt called to ministry and that's been from the beginning, no matter what other jobs he's wanted to have, he's known that he's been called to ministry. And now he's made that his profession. So shout out to you for making your dreams come true,
dude, because it was a struggle for a bit. It was a long road. I had, I promise you, there was a straight, solid year. I had, I'm, I'm kidding you not, probably 20 interviews. And one year all knows it was bad. It was like, all no, no, no, no, but oh, and not just, you kept trying. Well, and let's not even, let's talk about this. You kept trying. There was 20 interviews that were no, no, no, and you were trying to go grocery store wise and try to get
another position, a higher position or a different position. And how many interviews did you have at the same time for them? You had a ton of interviews for them. So it was like, it was like, he was trying to get one or the other, but man, you made it happen. So congrats to you. But yeah, man, I think it's been a heck of an episode. And this is the part where I would be
like TV trash can.com. We got that website no more. So we're over here at trash can network at trash can network over here on Facebook, Instagram, we ain't on X, but you know what, we're everywhere else that you're listening and wherever you're listening from, we do appreciate all across the world. That's something else too, man. We made an international podcast since then. We, we walked so we could run. That's right. We walked so we could run. So anyways, man,
I'm ready to take this donut box out to the trash few off. Yep, let's sign off. All right, man. I'm Michael. I'm Chris. And you have been listening to a very special friendship hiatus episode of the donut box podcast and Q Jefferson starship. Oh, it's just another Sunday.