Episode 5 - What’s Your Magic Number

the front entrance. Dylan goes in front, and my job is to secure the door and make sure no one comes in or out. Big mistake, that is my adrenaline starts pumping. I feel invincible. I feel power surging through my body. This is like a drug. Jesus, get a fucking grip. The bank employees stare at me. Mouth's open. I said, get down, and when they don't get down fast enough, I pull the trigger of the machine pistol.

Welcome to the Docherty Gang, a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios, Episode five, What's Your Magic Number? I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lidecker. We've been working with producer Beth Greenwald on The Docherty Gang for months now. These three siblings have agreed to tell their story for the very first time, each from separate prisons. Lee Grace Docherty is at the

Federal Correction Institute Aliceville in Alabama. Ryan Docherty is in the US Penitentiary Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan Docherty is at the Federal Correction Institute in Bennettsville, South Carolina. This call was from the federal prison. At that point, I wouldn't say I was thinking. It was just a whirlwind. Several hours after the shooting in the car chase, the siblings crossed the state line into Georgia and managed to elude police. They headed north and found a quiet, small

town bank in Baldosta. Dylan continues how he picked a bank. I mean, I was like, you know, in a Walmart parking lot had multiple hanxits and you know, entranced and there was no cops in the parking lot. You know, that's there all the strategical planning that went into and I know, we looked at one bank and there was a copt. We're gonna rob next one, you know what?

I mean, like I was looking to have an issue altercation with the police, you know, trying to not have that, but it was all getting too real, and Ryan, the youngest, was in a panic. We're suiting up in the parking lot, like right next to it and like a Walmart parking lot, and like shipped my guts out, like right up next to the side of the car, like old diarrhea, nervous, watery gut ship from about to do it. You know, I'll do crazy things, but like my nerves aren't good.

I mean, just because you're scared of something doesn't mean you don't do it. It's just kind of what it is. So I was scared to go rob that bank, absolutely, But did I have a choice, Not that I could see. I don't know if I ever would have had the nuts to get out of the car if my brother and sister hadn't already been out of it before the wheel stopped rolling. They're out of the car and they're already into the bank. But time I fucking slammed the

car at the park. So like I have no choice because my brother and sister are going in there to do something that's for me, that's for me. So yeah, I'm right on the raft. Unlike Ryan, Dylan felt confident and ready. I wasn't scared. I mean, like I said, the hardest part is opened the door and putting your foot on the ground. Once you do that, you're committed. Then you just carry through with the plan, which was pretty straightforward. I mean, not like this is heat. You know,

we didn't. You know, it's not like there was like all this thought process and logistical you know, we did this and this and this. There wasn't any of that. It was just merely there it is, and we're just gonna walk in here. And I was. I was very calm when I came in. I literally I kept the door open. Looked quite a bit of force. I guess it kind of like a little four year you come through one set of doors and another set of doors, and I'm thinking, was, you know the doors are locked now,

you know, and we're gonna be stuck in here. And I don't even think they had that option. Dylan was carrying an AK forty seven and Lee Grace was armed with a machine pistol. Ryan held the bag for the cash. Just let it be none. This was a banker, arey, and you know, we needed, you know, get on board and me apart and open the drawers and such as such. Dylan took the lead, but things didn't go exactly as planned. Well. I was very calm when I came into the bank,

and in fact, I was polite. I wasn't screaming. That's the reason why I fired the gun. Was in the first that says nobody was moving in and I was like, sorry, folks, is the robbery I'm gonna go. Indeed, the drawers opened up, and everybody was just sort of staring at me, like why this guy so polite? Why didn't you say I'm sorry and used me folks? And nobody was moving. And then the gun was discharged and everybody kind of snapped back to reality and was like, oh, this is actually

a bank robbery. You know Ashton put your isn't in the poset waiting to chump out on us. So everybody started moving, everybody started open the drawers. I felt like I was pretty calm during the whole thing. Just that one shot into the drywall took it from three to a nine. And I would never even shot the gun at people moved when I asked him to think I had to come into and screaming and holler, and you know that would have been a better tactic, you know,

and that I wouldn't had to shoot the gun. By the time, I was polite and everybody was sort of just sitting there, I think after the first gun shot. So I think they were just like, we want these people out of here and everybody's safe and sound. Obviously we get sent out to get caught. The point was to not be caught. But I feel like kind of did nothing. The light would've never been shown on it.

It's like one of those things where it sometimes to get everybody's attention in the room, you have to shoot a gun. I don't know if it sounds crazy, but producer Beth Greenwald spoke to Dylan all the guns that you had were legally purchased. Talk to me about your history of that, because I know you knew how to shoot. Gun. Safety is always important to me. Even if you look at the bank pictures of me home the gun, uh one, the gun is pointed to a safe direction, you know,

it's pointed up at the ceiling. My finger isn't riding on the trigger, it's outside the trigger. Well, these are just proper gun safety techniques that I learned as a young child growing up in a household that had quite a few guns and proper gun safety. I got my first rifle when I was probably I think I was there five or six. I got a twenty two rifles from a biological father, and that's from my collecting guns

started at that early game. Lee Grace brought her own logic to the robbery when she spoke with Beth and were you scared at all? I mean, you had never done anything like this in your life. I don't think

I was scared. You know, you're in a situation where you see the look off people's faces and you realize that they're really scared, and it kind of makes you a little bit calm because you're like, well, I'm kind of in charge right now, and these people they have to do what I say, and you feel empathy for them because you don't want anybody to have to go through that. And you are the one with the gun, so I mean it kind of takes a little bit edge off, you know, that fear that you know maybe

something bad will happen. I think when you're doing something like that, you're a journal and takes over when your body just says, well, this is what you're supposed to do and it just does that. So was I scared? No, there's so much a trinaline you don't have time to be a part of anything. Dylan remembers how Lee Grace failed to stick to the plan. I just said, just you know, stay on the door, and she police just yell and we'll know it's time to go. And I

think I turned around. The doors shut, and I was like, where shouldn't exactly mind or post? But then again, adrenaline coursing through you, so you kind of do as you will. Next thing, you know, she's like seen and right behind me or close to me, and I was like, well, you know, I turn around thinking the doors already shut. Here's Lee Grace speaking with producer Beth Greenwald with the bank robbery. Dylan told me that he told you to stay by the door. Tell me from when you walked

in your recollection of that. As much as Dylan told me what is the correct thing to do or what he wants me to do, there's always that part of me that says, you know what, I'm the old as the family. I can be a leader. To let me do what I want. So I think as soon as I saw Dylan go into the middle of the bank, I said, hey, I want to be right where Dylan is. And that's kind of how I ended up whiten him a smackdab the middle of things. To me, I thought I was by the door, but then I looked back.

I have those little spill shots in my brain. I kind of was not at the door at all. I think I was really by the front incent of the bank. Well, Dylan kept the attention of the bank patrons and employees. Ryan leapt into action to get the money from the teller's here's Dylan. I know. Ryan went to jump over the counter and he's like, um, we have a deceased sidling here. And he's like obviously you know, trying to go over the counter and here, and he and was,

you know, help me over. It turns out what Ryan thought was divine intervention from his deceased sister Aaron was really brotherly helped. I was like, no, that was me. I grabbed you away one arm, tossed you over. I've seen you're struggling, so I gave you a boost. I thought that I had mad hops because I cleared a counter that was every bit of like five ft tall. It was one of those counters that was like chest high. Right.

I ran, and like, imagine if you posted with one hand and then elevated your body like a tilt and jumped over kind of like a side vault, and you're holding the bag and a gun and the other flung yourself over like that. See. I thought that that was all on my own. I thought I had mad hops and I was like super impressed with myself. I was like,

hell ya, score one for adrenaline. And then later I find out that my brother had like took an in his hand and put it in the middle of my lower back and shoved me up over the counter at the same time I was doing that. And the odd thing is, it's not like I said, hey, bro, do this thing for me. It's just his mind and our work enough alike to where we don't necessarily always need to communicate in order to do things. In an odd turn of events, a bystanders saw Dylan in the bank.

I waited stood in the doorway, and I remember there was a fellow walking down the street, and it was it was kind of funny because he looked at me. I saw me looking at him, and it was like we were both like, you know, looked at each other. And then he just looked straight forward. He just started to look a straight legged, fIF leg quick march straight down the road. He didn't get on his phone to

call anybody. He didn't look back again. I'll never forget that A close call was averted in the trio moved quickly. Producer Beth Greenwal spoke to Dylan, how long were you guys? Even in the day, it feels like it wasn't more than about a minute. No, it wasn't long and all. It was in and out, grabb to hit the drawers and we and gone probably a minute and a half,

maybe two minutes. I think that's another thing I wouldn't like tactically, you know, running a stop watch or nothing, you know, eighty seven second bandits or anything like that. It was in and out and quick. Um. I wasn't trying to, you know, so attent up on the blobby or anything. Stylan and I had briefly discussed it and we said we wanted to be in and out in sixty seconds. And whether or not he came up with

that number, or whether or something that we discussed. He'd have to ask him, but I do know that it still is. Ryan cleaned out the towers, We spill out and just ran out. There wasn't any discussion about going in the ball. There wasn't any discussion about hurting anybody. There was no hot this situation. There was nothing of that because we didn't want people to see us. We didn't want people to be involved. We wanted to just be a clean plane robbery. It was surreal. It was

kind of weird. You know, it's nothing that we'd like rehearse or scope it out or had some you know, there's a lot of people in that that they brought all these planes and you know, your tactical whatever, and and yet you're still a car. Here's Beth speaking to the grace. Did you leave the car running outside? Oh, of course. Yeah. As soon as we got in the car, we pulled off. There was no stopping, there was no

looking around. We actually just took off. As soon as my feet were off the payment, Ryan was already in motion. I mean he really had the pedal to the middle. And with Ryan there's no hesitation. Once he's driving, that's his goal. So he's not gonna be slowed down by anybody that's going to be lollygagging. Phil Needringhouse, it retired special agent with the FBI for nearly thirty years, was involved in the Doctor the case. It wasn't like they

walked in and passed a note. They walked in since they had a Mac eleven and a K forty seven and a handgun and actually fired rounds in the bank. The FBI deals with a lot of bank robberies every day across the United States. But it isn't that offering that you have shots fired in a bank also super dangerous to everybody inside. So these three idiots did everything and they could to put themselves on the radar law enforcement. Dylan didn't quite grasp the gravity of the situation until

much later. It's weird, Like what I'm thinking when Ibody tell you Robin Bank, I would be like, oh, we have a gun, and well, of course he had a Gunny Rock and Bany. But apparently there's a lot of people that use a note or you know, coming with a piece of paper and they obviously get left time. You know, I didn't I didn't google that. A lot of these people rob banks and notes. Now you know what I mean, we have more bank robberies than almost

any place in the United States. So we were dealing with five or six bank robberies a week, and we had a group of agents and Task Force solciers that were primarily dealing with violent fugitives every day. So we knew about because of the national news coverage and stuff. The FBI put out that this group of three siblings had got involved in a shooting with law enforcement in Tampa Bay area, Pasco County, Florida. And then we're suspected

of having robbed a bank in Georgia. Once we realized how elevating our physician had becoming law enforcement, ye, I want to trying to rob another bank the next day or later that afternoon, we were starting to shift kind of lets cooled down, smer down a little bit. And obviously we didn't have a TV. And I'm trying to think how far along smart phones were. I want to say it was like maybe a second Apple phone. I mean,

I was out there. Everybody had a BlackBerry or a sidekick, so it wasn't like, you know, everybody now had anti media cunt fingertip. Detective sim Harris and the Pascal County Sheriff's Office in Florida was trying to track the doperty since the shootout with police earlier that morning. We'd actually

helped us that they robbed the bank. It was unfortunate, of course, but it actually helped us at the end of the day because it pointed us in a direction, so we were able to kind of escalate the bolow. We meaning, you know, as detectives here in Pasco, we had reached out to a t F involved because of the weapons circumstances, We had the FBI involved because of the bank robbery, and so we had a bunch of

tips coming in. And then, of course, once we realized that they had left the state of Florida and robbed the bank in Valdosta, then we went back and issued a POLO through Inlets, which is the national law enforcement terminal, and we put it out f C I C n c I C across the United States in the event that they were traveling to other states, which as we

found out, they were. Of course, the unfortunate thing was the bank was just off of the Interstate seventy five, so they could go north on seventy five all the way up into the Smoky Mountains up into Tennessee. They could have went a little bit further north to Atlanta, went across and got on and went up into the northeast. Or they could have went across I ten or an interstate north of that and went into Mississippi and Louisiana,

Alabama going that direction. We honestly didn't know. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. The Doperties were not sure where they were headed either. Ryan spoke to Beth, what state do you go to? I mean, you don't stay in Georgia? Right? Where were you guys? Honestly, man, it was just left and right. My brother was in charge of the atlas in the map. We were just driving around looking for likely places to either hit the next bank or just

someplace to kind of lay low. And what people don't realize. It's like you can't go to a hotel because they require a credit card. I don't give a funk how CD crackhead, prostitute, two hour rental ship. They all require a credit card. It all requires your face to be seen. And the whole United States has got a cell phone and waiting a route on you for no other reason but to tell on you. Did you ever think about ditching the car and getting a different car? Yeah, that

father crossed my mind the time or two? And why didn't you? Because they were looking for three siblings in a white super yeah four or vehicle is probably the most common vehicle in all the United States. And then to grab different tags off all the car lot isn't ship right. It's like two screws versus actually taking somebody else's vehicle, which you know you either have to catch him with the keys or not have to steal their car.

And as good as I am at a few things, it actually takes a little bit of work to break that lock that's on the steering wheel, the steering lock. And then not only that, but like my car fevery skills, and after like the two thousands of after that becomes way too computerized for me to figure out how to steal. You're talking about a couple of screws and some wires like I can do it, and the chisel and a hammer and a price of steering lock. If it's past

two thousand and two, I'm hit. I can't steal that. What about doing He was extremely mechanical. Yeah, I know, but it means it's still the same problem. Essentially, you're just gonna end up having a car jack somebody. And then there's another point of contact. It's a vehicle that's an unknown quantity, is just like a quality vehicle? Or is this vehicle? How the oil change regularly? How am I going to be driving the vehicle? And my familiar

driving it? Risk versus reward on the scale, and the risk doesn't always a cool the reward A different car certainly would have help, probably, but the risk for it versus the reward. You know what, how friends from the person to give up the keys, I think that they're going to play a cowboy and like keep away with you and I shoot him with a knee coup. This is not a good look. So how bad were their deeds?

Dylan puts it in perspective, having a running shootout with the police it's like eleven, and then robbing a bank is probably like a nine. And then you know, riding a motorcycle on one tire a hundred and forty miles it's like a probably like a seven and a half. So now to kind of put it in the perspective like it or not. The gang was all in and

they had to keep moving. We got on the interstate headed south and we got off about two eggits down and we started heading west out of Georgia, and we actually turned and went back into the pan Handle of Florida and skirted over And I think it was just too mainly to get out of the state because that we were right there to the close of the state line. I don't know if you can here. It's kind of get loud here. I think you're still hear me, but I can hear you. I can hear you. We're just

headed west, you know, the panhandle. The only reason we really did that was just to get out of the state because obviously does local these are gonna be looking. They're not gonna call Florida and be like, hey, we're just kind of robbed in Georgia, you know what I mean. That's not that's not what's gonna be to inspire. So and at that point we're going southbound and we were moving fast. Jumped on the Interstate nys Sound and then it went across and pulled a you turn really fast,

and we were made. There was a point where the grace is like well, maybe we just turn ourselves in, And I was like, I didn't think that was possible us, for I really thought that that window had to close for us in a ways, right Pully, So I don't think it personally. When you're shoot at the police, you have to understand then once you do that, you're opening that door. A lot of people have been shot and killed by the police and choked to death by the

police and didn't do anything. Once we got over the state line, it was kind of one of those situations. We're just looking at each other. We're like, well, I guess we're gonna have to do this, and I think. You know, you're in a group dynamic and you have an incident happening, you make it away from that incident. It kind of gives you a feeling that you're invincible. You can't get caught because if they really wanted to catch you, or if they could catch you, they would

already caught you. So it gives you that you fork freedom to kind of do something else. That spoke to sheriff not go of Pascal County. As it gets longer and longer into this crimes free, you get more concerned. At that point nobody had been hurt. Is this become more urgent. It's difficult to always be in the mind of somebody whos commating these crimes, but you're constantly trying

to evaluate what are they thinking? So not aspect, they probably felt they couldn't communicate with loved ones because they knew the phones were not going to be a wise way to communicate. At the same time, social media was not going to be their best way. They probably were feeling that are running out of options. They already hit

one bank, whatever money they had left. Eventually they're going to run out of So you're trying to figure out what are their options, where they headed to, how desperate will they be? And the other part two is there's three individuals in a car committing crimes. Eventually every time they're gonna get on each other's terms, or all three

of them just go their own separate ways. So your costa trying to think, I have from a psychological perspective, what are they planning in the do But I go back to it, we thought they were going to leave the country. That was the best way for him not to go back to prison, for them to live, not on their microscope of constantly being chased down by law enforcement.

So it was that type fond of the family that people admired, but that type fond also didn't allow them to rationally think out a plan to say this may not work out well for us. Former FBI agent Leading House, it's pretty amazing that people still rob banks the way they do. I mean, I think people rob banks because there's banks overwhere. You can stop at any major intersection and look up and see a bank. I mean, there's

more banks than there are liquor stores. So that's part of why banks get up that you're going to rob a bank. You know there's going to be security of some sort, and you know there's gonna be cameras, and you know you're gonna get the FBI chasing is so in the criminal mastermind world, that's a pretty poor choice for a way to get money is to go in to rob a bank. And the average bank robbery TAIG

nationally is less than two thousand dollars. It's not like you're going in and hitting the bank and getting in the vault and getting a couple hundred thousand dollars. If you're hitting the teller drawers, I mean you're lucky to get to three thousand dollars. Here's Detective Harris. Obviously, the circumstance in Georgia was under the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Actually it fell under the FBI jurisdiction because of ad id insured than they understood certain things that they didd through a scope that was like how we look at things, and some of it was just an altered reality for them. You've put yourself in their shoes. They decided to run. First of all, that run, as we talked about, could

have went a million different directions. But immediately they're pursued by a police officer, they get into a shootout, they flee from that, they travel up the interstate, they rob a faint in their minds, they're like modern day body and flies. So, like you said, there's a lot going on in their mind. But at the same time they're doing a lot of bad stuff. Law enforce than cast a wide not to find the armed in dangerous siblings.

Here's Sheriff Naco. We knew they had to obtain cash somewhere, and that's where they went into the bank robbed it. For them to go into a bank is even more brazen than what we thought they would just hit a convenience store, but then they started following more in lineup. They're desperate, They're willing to do anything. But when it got into Georgia, I think that was the moment when people realized nationally that this wasn't just a Florida issue.

This was getting into a national issue to find out where they were going to go next. And so that's where I think when we started seeing a lot bigger engagement by agencies across the country, but wanting this information, wonder what was happening, because they recognized that if they went into Georgia, where it was next, let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment.

The Doperties reflected on their crimes Free Here's Ryan, followed by Dylan bos Call, which from let's say a prison, How have it been better planned out? What things have went better? Yeah? Maybe maybe not? Maybe people would have wound up yet And I find life to be precious. I'm able to casually discard my life right, but how I find other people's lives precious? I learned one thing about myself. I can run towards bullet. Not everybody can

do that. I mean, at least I know, in my craffy situation, I'm able to still hold it together and function. And I said that like in passing to my attorney one time, and I could say I'm sorry to each one of those people, I would, But you know that the next day it's one of their better days. And what's crazy, they're still telling that story and Applebee's on Friday Night to this day, they're still they're still telling that bank robbery story. The Dougherty myth was becoming a reality,

at least to them. Here's Beth talking to Kneed Dringhouse and looking at how they robbed the bank. They obviously understood what they were doing, but the way they did it seems like they saw it in a movie and thought that they could pull this off. You know, this is robbery, you know, shooting into the ceiling, all of that. Yeah. So, I mean, usually people I'm in and they get a teller drawer, maybe two teller drawers. It's not like a bank.

Teller's drawers stuff full of cash. The banks aren't stupid. They rotate that cash out and it goes to the vault or wherever. So, yeah, the average bank robberies aren't high dollar criminal propositions unless you're really organized takeover crew and you're getting behind the counter and cleaning out all the drawers, top and bottom drawers. Beth Astley Grace about the money. Were you guys driving away when you were counting it. I'm pretty sure it was a toolbag full

of cash. I actually had wanted through it. I was stuffing most of the cash on my lap because Dylan telling me surry and counted. I want to see how much money was in there. And I started to count it. Dylan looking at me, and I'm counting the money. I'm realizing it's only five thousand. He's like, well, counted again. I said, Okay, well counting again. You know, I'm pretty good at counting money. And he's looking at me. I'm looking at him. I'm like, dude, it's only five thousands.

He's like, man, count it one more time, you know, because we're like in this state of shop, like, you know, we're thinking like forty dollars, and it was nowhere near out. So the whole planning of it, there wasn't no planning. And I think that's what a lot of people don't realize is that when you're in a family crisis, you're not using logic, you're not motivated by the facts, You're

motivated by emotions. And I think that's what costs a lot of people to make of these magnitudes, is that you're going purely by your emotions for your family and you're reacting. And I think that was our downfall. What's your magic number? Right, everybody's got a number. That's the funny thing, Right, everybody's got a number that they're like, Man, I could retire on that, right, or man, I'd be satisfied if I got that. And honestly, like a couple

of hundred grand would have done it. Like anything north of like two fifty or three hundred grand would would have been enough at least for seed money to go. There's like, Okay, I'm gonna retire, and then there's okay, I'm gonna invest. It's not well thought out. None of it was well planned, and you can tell by the actions that we did one or two times editivate me

a professional, Thank Robert. I guess I was always under the impression that the money was just to get you across the border, but the money was to set you up yeah, exactly. I don't want to do all of this and riff life and live and go somewhere else and work. We were thinking San Diego would be a good place, um and then just cough and if you wanted, because we do know there is a large American presence

there and we wouldn't have stuck out as much. Usually somebody would be slinking in the back seat, you know, Carla for shotgun, I think a big fear of ours who was actually getting to the border and getting into a shootout with a non American police force. The price of life down there is dirty totally that I don't speak Spanish. I'm an outsider wherever I go. You're mainly relying on the fact that you don't pop up on the radar, don't be noticeable. But if they want you

bad enough, they'll just come get you. Nay more on that next time. If you're over eighteen years old and want to see pictures of Lee Grace and Ryan Dougherty or find their addresses to write them in prison, go to our Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. The Dougherty Gang is executive produced by Stephanie lie Decker and me Courtney Armstrong along with Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound design is by Jeff Ta, additional producing

by Chris Graves and Jeff Shane. The Docortor Gang is a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.