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That's the number that has been disconnected. Hello there, and welcome back to the Disconnected. Here with the one of the more interesting individuals that I've been excited to.
Talk about for a while.
Here we've got the writer, editor and disability advocate Kristin Lopez. Kristin, thanks for coming on the show today.
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
You've got a couple of books coming out in the next couple of years that we're going to be talking about in just a little bit.
But you've written a book before, and you know, when.
Somebody hears disability advocate and that's connected to film, I wonder how many people even know what exactly that means. So why don't you share what that means for people?
Uh?
Yeah, I mean I talk about disability predominantly from the film representation side, which I think a lot of people assume.
You know, disability advocates.
Are government based or you know, social social justice type of stuff that they're all crusading for, you know, more curb cuts and you know legislation, which is important. You know, those people, I applaud them. I love that they do that the work that they do.
I knew I was never.
Going to be that, But at the same time as one of the few, if not only, physically disabled critics that I knew, but that I still intact. You know, I still don't see any wheelchair users at any of the screenings that I go to that are at the same level writing wise as me, or you know that
work in the trades. So you know, I knew I was kind of in a privileged position to be like, Okay, well then I can talk about entertainment from a disability perspective and kind of ask questions about why things are the way they are.
And I figure that.
Would just be some sort of fun little niche that maybe I could make money. Like people would want to be like, oh this, this girl is going to write an article that's going to get a.
Thousand clicks, and you know, we want to work with her.
But I started noticing that people that were disabled and non disabled people as while we're reading it and we're a either hearton that somebody understood you know, their issues with film or b did not know that you know, certain depictions.
Were problematic, and we're happy about that because.
Ableism is still a relatively newism, right, you know, we we don't really know when we're doing it, and we certainly don't look back at the history of film in a way that emphasizes, you know, if you look at film through the lens of like racism, you understand that film is part of the culture of a you know, oppression. So the history of film is one of you know, racism and trying to move away from that. And same
with with you know, disability. A lot of it is emphasizing disability is a negative and we're having to unlearn that at this point and it's still a relatively new thing.
So for me, you know, I'm.
I'm I always tell people I'm not shitting on your love of a certain movie. You know, I love many a problematic disabled film. It's about telling you that you should look closer though, at why things are the way they are. Why is the main character who's disabled a white guy. Why are most disabled characters disabled late in life? You know, why are disabled characters that are you know, physically disabled, especially women, also tied into how sexually attractive they are?
Or aren't all of these things are deliberate.
Choices that come from just a history of ableism.
Well, and many of the things that you've talked about in this sector online previously and then your work are related to things of that last portion. There is things like the pretty Disabled and the films that are out there that we are capturing, you know, just the most
surface level of disabilities. I guess it's the best way to say this, Like, we can talk about people that are deaf because that's something that we can relate to, but in a world of recognizing the full spectrum of all of this, it is really hard to even discuss because in a lot of ways, and pardon the pun with what you just said, but this is just not really a sexy topic either. This isn't something that gets a lot of clicks. This isn't something that sells a
ton of tickets to things. People aren't dying to go to the films to see this. But the reality is it's important for those that would be represented on screen.
Well, I think the.
Fact that it's not a sexy topic is the again that history of saying it's not a sexy topic, you know, I mean, unfortunately There's been movies that have dealt with disability and sexuality and people don't go see those movies. Why, I say, often it has more to do with the audience than the film per se, because I think this, you know, I think abled audiences, because that's remember what I think.
Movie most movies are made for.
Most movies about disability are trying to get disabled audiences, not not abled people. So I think that, you know, a lot of times people just kind of go don't go see those movies because they're uncomfortable with it.
You know.
And I mean there have been movies that have tried.
To change the you know, the game Coda Won an Oscar, you know, but that movie did not make a lot of money, you know, when it did go to the theater.
So what is the issue?
You know, is it that people just automatically assume that a disabled movie is some sort of oscar baby serious thing that's the equivalent of taking your medicine, you know, And I think that we really need to re revise.
What that is.
You know.
At the same time, I think that I always couch disabled narratives in the sense of are they about ambulatory disabled people are not?
Because I think that.
You know.
What's interesting is is I get I get asked a lot, you know about if I covered if I why don't I.
Talk about invisible disabilities?
And I always say, a, you know, I can only research from my experience, from my perspective and apply it. I don't have autism as far as I know, Uh, you know, I don't have I have ADHD, but I personally don't consider that a disability for myself. So I don't really know how to couch it in those terms just because I was not I'm not built with that knowledge. And at the same time, I think my point still stands, which is that invisible disabilities are continue to be the
way around dealing with disability and film. You know again, and a director, a screenwriter can write a physically able hot girl who maybe has you know, some sort of invisible disability, it doesn't solve the problem because again it's still just another way to x out having to make make the industry accessible for all.
Well, and that leads into why there needs to be a book about this, which you have coming out. I mean, the moment that you let me knew that this existed, I had to pre order this because this has been something I've been you know, trying to talk about for a while, trying to get people to understand is an important topic, try to have people understand what representation can be.
So tell us about your book.
So you know, Popcorn Disabilities is uh, my attempt to kind of do a look at disability and film in a way that's not academic. It's being put out by an academic press, but I really wanted it to be funny and kind of utilizing things that I've learned from watching disabled films. You know, how disabled films made me feel as a person and how I'm assuming they make a lot of other people feel because of the bad representation.
So you know, it was an interesting journey historically from the silent ear to today looking at disabled films and the tropes and the stereotypes they use, but more importantly, how they make a generation of disabled people feel about being disabled.
Right, there's so many people obviously that have probably never even considered this while watching many of these films. With that in mind, and obviously we could get you to speak on this for hours and hours, but with that in mind, can you explain what is good representation and bad representation of disabilities?
I mean, the most obvious is bad representation because that's there's more of that that exists, and mostly it's emphasizing the disability. Becoming disabled is something to fear, that being becoming disabled is a death sentence, and or that you're lacking in something, and that a disabled person is.
Always mourning what they have lost, you know, and.
Usually bad representation is, you know, showing that being disabled you're something to pity. You're poor, you're uneducated, your family hates you, you hate yourself, all of these, all of these elements that emphasize you know, at the end of the movie, you know, it's all about the able person, so you know how the able person feels having known you.
Your life doesn't need to get better, but it's about how the other person that really spends time with you, the danes to be your friend or partner or whatever.
How their life is better. You know.
Good representation, I think for me, you know, in terms of what I look at right now, is if it gets the little things right. You know, if it's if it's showing me a person in a wheelchair that is a custom chair and not a hospital chair. If I can tell that that person in that wheelchair, has actually used a wheelchair, or has done some sort of research.
If the script doesn't emphasize.
The disability is something to be sad about, it just exists, you know, it's just something.
To be happy about.
If a movie is about a disabled woman, particularly disabled woman of color, I will give it at least a kudo for not being a typical, you know, white male disabled story. So, you know, good representation I think right now is still coming in bits and pieces as opposed to an overarching thing.
Yeah.
I mean there's a kind of baseline Bechdel test sort of feeling that you can get here. And it seems like if if somebody with a disability is in a scene and that's the only focus of every scene, that's pretty damn telling in and of itself.
Exactly.
Yeah, And I mean there's there's so many overt elements I think that people you know, don't notice about disability representation.
I mean, one of them is how often a.
Disabled movie prioritizes an abled person, you know, whether that's a caregiver or a partner. You know, the movie's not really the disabled person's story, it's the partner story.
You know. Yeah, rain Man is a great example.
You know, Dustin Hoffman is on the poster, yes, and he is the titled character. And yet I think most people if you ask them, who is the protagonist, who is the lead?
Who is the person that grows and changes storm cruise?
Uh, you know, and that that happens a lot because you know, screenwriters and I think entertainment executives the whole, the whole group assume that disabled people are this magical entity that you're.
Clearly not going to understand as an audience member.
So we need to have what I call an able body buffer, which is an able person that can be the shirpa you know, that can help you understand the mythical disabled person. They're really telling the audience that we think you're stupid, you know. And I think that's always really funny to me that when people realize, like, oh, you know, wow, that's that's really true.
I guess we all need an ambassador to disabled land, that's for sure, exactly.
Yeah. And I mean, you know, I think that I'm one of the.
Few people that you know, I tell people, we compartmentalize, you know, if I was looking for a movie that was perfectly rendered from a disabled standpoint, I would not like anything because you know, it just doesn't exist. And you know, I love me some bad representation that maybe has some merit.
I love Forrest Gump.
You know, I think that movie is really interesting, specifically for the Gary Sineze character. And yet you know, it's it's got a lot of issues. So I think that we all kind of have to see the good where we can.
When we can.
I would agree there with that. There there are lots of obvious bad examples of this. What are some of the more, uh, well, we'll say recent films that people should look to as good indicators of disability or representation in film.
Oh, you know, it's it's tough.
I mean, I always say the horror genre is one of the more accommodating disabled, you know genres, if only because there's more characters they're either overtly disabled or coded as such. You know, I tell people I love Aaron Schimberg's A Different Man, which came out last year.
I think that's one.
Of the best looks at disabled representation, and yet disabled people and diabled audiences don't necessarily, you know, think of that.
I know a lot of.
Disabled people that when I said how much I love the movie. They had not seen it, but they had seen that Sebastian Stan was playing a disabled character and they said, oh, well, what do you mean, he's a disabled character that gets hot. And I was like, I know, you clearly have not seen the film.
I'm like, because it's.
Commenting very specifically on the belief that all disabled people want to be hot Spatch and Stan, and that is only scratching the surface, you know.
It's it's got so many different layers.
To it in terms of, you know, the magic cure and how often disabled people want that. It even goes so far as to get a little meta and asks the question of whether Aaron Schimberg himself has any right to be telling a disabled story. It's just it's very smart. It's very smart, and I love it. I love it so very much.
You know, I think Coda is very sweet.
I think it's it's great to see a disabled family. It's not wealthy, or at least is not financially solvent, which tends to be.
Something that you see a lot of.
And I always point to the Chucky films, specifically Don Mancini's Latter Two Curse and Cult of Chucky, which have a disabled heroin. Yes, Fiona Dorf is not disabled, but I've been fortunate to interview Don Mancini about it and to hear him talk about like trying to getting the weeds of like discovering the right custom chair, you know, And you know I gave him. I think I gave him guph when I interviewed him, I'm like, well, you know, the movie's great.
I love it.
I don't have a lot of criticisms all. But you know, Fiona, when she's wheeling that chair, she's got chicken arms. You know, she's got these flapping wings. I'm all a disabled person, especially one that's got like hardwood floor you propel off of stuff. You know, you're trying to work smarter, not hurder. And he was like, yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
But I mean, the.
Movie I think is really smart in how it has a disabled heroin disabled from birth.
You can argue whether that is true or not.
Based on if you've seen the movie at the plot point. I don'tant to spoil it, but she's disabled from birth. She's a sexual character. Everybody else around her is a dick because they make the presumption that she's not capable, and yet she clearly is, and she uses her disability in a way that's always an advantage. So I think those are the ones that I always say I really love.
If you go even further back to something like the silent era, there's a nineteen twenties film from Lawn Chaney Senior called The.
Penalty, which is hilariously bonkers. It's hilarious.
So the plot the beginning of the movie in a nutshell, is that a doctor is operating on a child who is gonna grow up to be Lawn Chaney senior. The kids got a like cold and a bump on the head, and the doctor is like, gott to chop his legs off, like.
He got you, it's what we got do.
And he does, and he makes this character a double amputee. And just from a technical standpoint, I don't know how they did it in this.
Movie hiding Lawn Cheney's legs. I know they did they.
You know, they've talked about how he did like this weird contraption where he strapped his legs behind him.
I don't know how they did it. I have no clue.
It looks like he does not have any legs below the knee, But to watch and just the production design, the way that ramps are kind of like intricately added into the set design. He's like trying to like see through out a door window, and he's got little like pegs that he puts in these holes and like climbs the wall.
Like he's Spider Man.
But the story is also like you are you understand this guy becoming a criminal mastermind and wanting to take vengeance on the doctor, because dude, that is some serious malpractice. Is it good representation? I'm not really sure, but is it entertaining? Is how a movie that is really cool to watch? You are damn right?
It is you in.
I mean, this is a perfect segue because of what you just brought up. You have frequently spoken about the landmark film Freaks over the years, because it is widely discussed as depending on who you're speaking with, either incredibly controversial for being a exploitive for certain people, and then on the far other end of the spectrum, indibly incredibly accepting for allowing these people to be on the screen at the time. What are other than freaks? And perhaps
you can start with freaks? What are some of the major like touch points in film history of disability representation.
You know, Franks is one of those.
It's one of the few movies that even now, you know, in twenty twenty five, it has it still holds the record for the most abled cast members you know, on screen at any point in time.
We've not broken that yet.
It's one of those films that is just amazing to see how many physically disabled people are present that have really no shame in it, that just exist.
Todd Browning tried really hard to.
Humanize these characters and humanize the actors as well.
You know, to hear some of.
The behind the scenes stories about how people treated these performers is just you're you hate f Scott Fitzgerald by the end of it because you're just like, come on, it's just it's heartbreaking how it's a film that didn't single handedly destroy Todd Browning's career, but it certainly didn't help. And it's just it's it's a fantastic movie.
It's it's really great.
Yeah, it's one you know, Todd Browning and actually Dom Mancini and a lot of these others that are really great about representation, uh, for for whatever spectrum, I mean, one of the big ones you talked about. Mancini is great on representing disability, but then also queer representation. It's one of those one of those franchises that has been incredible with it. So obviously we got freaks. You already mentioned rain Man. What are some other of the like the best examples in history?
Oh, gosh, best examples. That's really tough.
I mean, you know, Martley Mattin's Children of a Lesser God I think is worthy. You know, he still is one of the few disabled women, the only disabled woman as far as I know, deaf and disabled to win an oscar, And it's one of those films that prioritizes deaf people of all stripes. And even though Bill hurt is the lead, you know, he's the one that opens the movie, nobody gives a shit about him. You know,
you only care about Marlee Matlin. She is so good in it, She's so magnetic, and she really is a person that sends up this character. You know, challenges him all the time for his own kind of ablest microaggressions that he exhibits, and I mean offscreen he was a horrible human being to her. So, you know, but I
think that one's one I really appreciate. Coming Home from nineteen seventy six is probably my favorite, just because it's a pre Ada world and hal Ashby was very forthright about trying to show what disabled people, disabled veterans we're dealing with.
And I know John.
Boyd is a horrific human being now, but he is so damn good. It makes me mad that he's a horrific human being now because he's so good in this In the movie, he gets a lot of the little bits of business right, he wheelds a wheelchair accurately, he's got he's a good looking guy that's got a car and a house, you know, emphasizing again that disabled people just live lives.
You know. It's it's a brilliant, brilliant film.
It's got a disabled sex scene in it that I think is very, you know, just beautifully rendered. That one's definitely a high point invest years of our lives.
I think. From nineteen forty six is another one.
Harold Russell won the Oscar one two, you know, and it's one of those films that really does again the veteran element is there, but also just gets a lot of the little minutia you know well, and Harold Russell's great.
And I want to say thank you because you keep bringing up all the things that I'm planning on asking that you're just making these transitions incredible.
Do you feel like the ADA had a.
Tangible effect on filmmaking at the time, where, you know, other than the actual making of the film, and they were required to do certain things on these working spaces, but like how they were represented on screen after the ADA is a post before.
You know, the ADA comes in the in the nineties officially, and I think it's it's interesting to watch something like a movie that comes post pre Ada is Coming Home, you know, nineteen seventy six. You're seeing how so many of the places that John Lloyd's character goes to have stares or he's got to you know, kind of navigate. He goes to a police station at one point and there's a stare. He's got to like go off with his wheelchair. It's it's everywhere because that was what the
world looked like. And then you see something post Ada, you can I can always tell when it's post ADA, even if it's set.
In a previous time period.
Something like Born on the Fourth of July, which actually came out right as the Ada passes, and it's very much a post you know, kind of Ada world where you're not really looking at the sidewalks, and it's it's more about like this character trying to accept his own
disability in himself. But then you want something like Forrest Gump, which again set in the nineteen sixties during Vietnam, and you know, you look at the medical system pre and post Ada in these films in Coming Home, it's they're very apathetic, you know, doctors, everybody's kind of we're living on the dole. They don't really know how to handle money. Born on the fourth of July is just like the medical system as hell. You know, ron Covid screaming into
the void. There's people dying all around him. You know, there's doctors that don't speak English. Whereas then you look at something like Forrest Gump, which I always laugh because there's a scene where Lieutenant Dan goes down a ramp and the joke is you hear him crash into something, which yeah, and I'm just like that not have been a ramp in nineteen seventy whatever, that would have been a staircase.
Stop it. But even you know, something like I just you can.
You can tell kind of this post Ada world where the hospitals in Vietnam it's all doctors to speak English. You know, everybody's got their own bed, they got ice cream and ping pong.
It's just great, right, Everything was cool.
So there's a real revision of history as we once the Ada passes, and especially with war films, you know, when you get the Ada, you get into the war. In I Rock, you know, in the two thousands, it wasn't enough to just have about physical disabilities.
You have to deal with mental disabilities as well.
And you're also seeing a lot more of the military and medical system paying or at least.
Offering funds, you know, to be part of the movie.
So yeah, that's a yeah, that's a soft spot for certain people in Hollywood, of course, but it obviously leaves a bad taste in the mouth afterwards, especially when it's propaganda of all different shapes and sizes.
You know. I included Home of the Brave.
I was looking for a war movie that had a disabled woman in it, and I had a friend recommend this movie to me, and I watched it, and Home of the Brave is very two thousand and six. It's very much slow mo black and brown people throwing bombs, Death to America type of thing.
Very two thousands war in.
Iraq, like US versus Them, but Jessica Biehle plays the leading lady.
She loses a hand in a bomb, hand in an arm in a bombing.
And it's one of the most laughably heinous disabled movies I've watched.
In a minute, she goes to Walter Reid.
Okay, they make a big point of saying, like Walter read Medical Center, and they're showing her all these high end things we can do with your hand, and they're like, I forget if they say, like her insurance doesn't cover any of that, or what the excuse was, but they're like, here's what you get.
And it's like a rubber glove that looks like a hand. It looks sake as hell, and.
She goes to like use it like she's a pe teacher, and they throw the volleyball at her and she drops it because she's like and she has flashbacks, I'm not kidding, slow moo flashbacks of her just like playing tennis with her perfect arm and like going to the grocery store and throwing her arms up in the air and you're just like, uh huh, I can see.
What is going on here. You really miss your arm.
She's got a boyfriend that she you know, can't deal with what has happened to her, and her boyfriend leaves her.
And he says, well, I guess it only takes one good hand to push someone away. And I'm like Jesus, I'm like, okay, okay. This was a movie that got money, uh got money.
And I think they said, I forget if it Irwin Winkler, I think was the producer, very old Hollywood, and I think they said that it was meant to be in a modernized version of Best Years of Our Lives. And I was like, yes, if somebody did not learn anything from Best Years of Our Lives, yikes, it's over.
Ray, It's over. Don't you get it?
At least tell me that what did I do? It's not about you, It's about me. Okay, you want to be alone. Fine, I've tried comforting you.
I've tried giving you space, but which is so damn determined.
To be pissed off at the world.
I guess it only takes one good hand to push people away.
To care of yourself, Vanessa.
That's not great. At the beginning, one of the things that you mentioned was that as a critic, there are not many other people in the space, or any other people in the space. Maybe a sensitive question to ask. So if you don't want me to include it, to say the word, but are there any organizations that you can feel are really pressing forward to make that a priority to be inclusive in this space?
Yeah?
I mean when it comes to journalism, no, you know, there's a lot of disabled organizations that you know, look at the film industry, you know, and want to change how movies get made. But when it comes to you know, disabled journalism, I get a lot of students that email me and say, when I google disabled journalists, not even disabled entertainment journalists.
When Google disabled journalists, your name came up.
And and it's only getting worse right now, you know, with the way the economy is going, uh, and journalism is kind of dying on the vine. You know, people are not hiring marginalized you know writers. It's kind of going back to the bad old days where it was unless you were a white man enabled, you know, you weren't going to get hired. So I'm not hearing a lot about disabled journalists, you know, being in the room
I have. I have left my current trade job, and I get a lot of people that say, could you get this, you know, in front of somebody at the Hollywood Reporter or Variety or you know my old you know locations that I worked at, and you I or the Rap and you know, I say, well, you know, I don't work there anymore.
I can recommend somebody right about this, but.
You know, if they're not well versed, you really want them to and you know right now, So it's it's unfortunate. I worry about how much disabled organizations that are trying to just change the film world are going to struggle because there are no disabled journalists willing and able, and there's not enough time from disabled or from able allies who you know are overburdened and understaffed. You know, how much of disabled coverage is going to kind of fall through the cracks.
Yeah, and it's not just journalism. That's the hard part right now, because I mean specific rights are being stripped from all kinds of minorities, including the disabled, and depending on how we respond to that, you know, just like you just mentioned the word overwhelmed and the reality is, while we're watching all kinds of people lose their rights, some of these are just going to be gone most likely.
Yeah, And I mean I think that's the thing. You know, there's there's it's it's something that really irks me because there is disabled content being made. You know, We're we're getting it Judy Human biopic next year from Apple TV. We're getting there's some fantastic documentaries that are coming out, you know, about disabled advocates and disabled issues. And I get you know, I get a lot of people that email me and they're like, can you can you write about this?
Can you cover this?
Ay?
I don't want to be the only person covering disabled content, nor should I. I don't represent you know, I know that there are other critics that have other opinions that are better than me.
Uh, you know.
But at the same time, you know, I do worry about what the next generation of disabled critics look, you know, disabled entertainment writers look like. You know, especially the landscape where it's all about social media and quick bites and no nuance and saying you know your your point quickly. It's troubling. It's troubling, but I keep on, you know, I've been kind of pointing out things that have irked me.
You know, we've had two big disabled events, you know, We've had We had Wicked last year, we had Deaf President Now that came out this year. We had a Marley Mattlin documentary that came of this year, none of which prioritized disabled journalists or writers or even influencers you know,
writing about covering those elements. So my big cause to leve at the moment is is, you know, how do you expect you know, people to talk about disability if you're not going to let disabled journalists have a crack at the few things that we are actually that are actually made for us, you know, like and I mean I've had people say, you know, are you just complaining
that you weren't asked? At this point, I would be happy to see anybody ask you know, when when Wicked came out, I remember, you know, I tried to get an interview with Marissa Bodi to talk to her about, you know, playing the character, and I didn't get it, which was fine, but when I asked, you know, I want to be an ally for other disabled writers that have written about that have maybe talked to her that
have maybe written about this. A lot of people, you know, said that they had put in requests and been denied or had to write stuff for their own sites because no one wanted it. It's it's very frustrating because you know, if you don't want to able journalists to kind of get egg on their face by saying something wrong, then maybe hire a disabled journalist to.
Cover that topic.
It happens so few and far between that I feel like we we applaud the simplest of things and never prioritize the things that are actually going to be leading to market change. I mean last year was a big example, you know, representation of sex workers. Anora got multiple screenings of Sean just bringing sex workers to watch.
A movie together, which is great.
I'm glad that we're showing it in a positive light and that's fantastic, But what about people covering the film that are talking about things like that more, or films like Coda that could actually focus on those things in a positive light and how it can affect the community.
It's it's something that gets lost very quickly.
It's very frustrating, and I think that you know, when I was when I was a disabled when I was an editor. You know, I got asked a lot at the places I worked at you know, well, you're you're disabled, so you're part of the marginalized community, you know. And I'm like, yes, but that doesn't mean that if there's a film or TV show by a black filmmaker, you should automatically give it to me because I'm disabled.
Those two things to not pars, you know, And I made.
A point to try to you know, when I knew that, you know, no one like me or anybody on my staff could have that experience, I would try to find those writers and give them an opportunity. And eventually I got told, you know, it just it takes too much time and we we don't have the bandwidth, and also it's expensive, you know, so just just you guys should do it.
You don't need lived.
Experience in order to write about something. And I'm like, true, but again, I want to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. So it's frustrating, you know, and I think that we're seeing kind of the doubt.
It's why I think people are so you know, gravitating to substack and stuff like that, because you know, I know that for me at least in my case, it's letting me be the writer that I want to be, you know, and hopefully one day we'll be able to bring on more writers and kind of be the editor. That's like, you know, you should be covering these things. People should be talking about these things.
And that's I mean, that's where what you just brought up with, like marginalized communities is so important, because it's not it's not just a matter of we can only focus on one. It's a matter of the there are films with diverse casts that we need to cover certain things and focus on different things because people are experiencing those films in different ways.
Yeah.
I mean, when when How to Train Your Dragon the remake came out, I had friends that were going to the press event, and I asked, more than one of them, can you ask about you know, the disabled representation and about you know, the fact that Hiccup is disabled and the end of the movie where you know, the character exhibits limb laws and you know, kind of working with that.
And I had more than one of them say, well, that's a really interesting question, Like I don't I don't want to make anybody uncomfortable, So I don't feel I should ask that, And I was like, right, but I didn't get invited, and neither did any disabled person. So it's kind of on you, you know, if you want to kind of lead the charge and help make the world a better place.
So it's frustrating. And I think that's the other thing too, is that people.
Don't want to ask the tough questions, especially in entertainment journalism that could limit their access. You know, I interviewed already asked her one time, and you know, I had to ask him at the end. I'm like, how what draws you to want to use disabled characters in your movies? And he looked at me like I had sprouted a second head. He did not know what to say, he had never been aft that in his life, and he gave me a word salad. This was when Midsommar came out.
He gave me a word salad about like eugenics and Sweden at the time, and I was just like okay, And then he was like, well, you know, I don't think I used disabled characters and everything. You know, you don't know that the character in Hereditary was disabled. And I was like, right, we don't know that she's overtly disabled.
But you know, Millie Shapiro is a disabled actress, and you know, the characters heavily coated as being mentally delayed, so like, and he was just he was They were very happy when it was like.
Okay, you're done and go out. Uh. And I think that's that's the thing is.
It's it's always funny to me. I don't like to be the person that calls people to the carpet, but at the same time, I'm just like, no one's gonna ask you this, and it's kind of my thing.
I mean.
On the flip side of that, I interviewed Kevin Smith once and you know, asked him about and it's in I included the movie in my book because I still think I enjoy it. I asked him about casting a you know, trishalle Edmonds, who is a black deaf actress in the Jane Silent Bob's Strike Back sequel, and he looked at me like I had sprouted a second head. But it was a good one because he was very happy that somebody had thought to ask him about that.
He's all, no one's no one's brought the character up, no one's asked me about you know that he had a great story about you know, initially he wanted a deaf black transactress, but he couldn't find somebody who was all you know, so he just kind of you know, cast her that way and you know, talked about how his daughter learned asl so that she could you know, sign and it was a really great story and he was he was so he you know said afterwards, He's like,
you know, thank you, Like no one's praised her performance, you know, and talked about the significance of having a character like that, and I'm like, you know, it's just when I see it, I don't I got to ask about it. So I mean, there are some some creatives that want to talk about it. It's just there's not enough disabled people to ask, and diable people are too scared to ask.
It's also extra frustrating when we've seen the expansion of like covering of queer representation. I mean, forty years ago, we were having the same discussion about well, we can't have that even in this film, let alone like discussing in the interviews after.
And now we're a lot.
Of us, well not everybody, but most of us are viewing this as just a sort of everyday life, and we one a lot.
I mean, I've said that, you know, the disabled experience is analogous.
You know.
I think the Black community, the LGBTQ community, the Indigenous community, we all have kind of the same issues when it comes to representation as regards to lack of it, and you know, the ism part of it, you know, whether that's racism, whether that's you know, homophobia, whether that's ableism.
But our issues are not the same, you know, they're analogous, they're similar, but there's a his entire history of black representation that is completely different than what disabled people have experienced. At the same time, you know, we're we're in our infancy. You know, in terms of film representation. It took how many years you know, for racism to be something that people point out and say like, oh, we shouldn't do that. It could take just as long time for you know, able,
you know, disabled representation to get better. But it's the impetus is still on the disabled people, and that's unfortunately not helpful right now, you know, because if you're waiting for disabled filmmakers and disabled screenwriters, you're gonna be waiting a while. Because you need the studios to want to green light that content, and right now, you know they don't care about it, so they're not gonna green light it.
That's too true.
Gosh.
Yeah, there's so much into this that I would love to go into your previous work tell us about But have you read the book?
Yeah?
So that was my first book.
It seems so long ago because I've been writing books for way too long right now. I never I don't recommend writing three books in like a year and a half.
Never do it. It's awful.
But it's about literary adaptations. I did fifty two books, fifty two movies and kind of comparing and contrasting how they jive or don't jive with the source material.
Uh.
And it was it was a lot of fun, you know.
Uh.
I say the silver lining to a pandemic was that I had a lot of free time on my hands, so I could just watch movies and read the book and and kind of uh it made me feel like, Okay, I could probably do my Masters if I want am I again if I wanted to?
Because it was very similar thought process.
Of like churning out books and being able to like sum up your points uh, and it's been great. It's been great to see people that have said, you know that they read the book and they watch the movie, they have book clubs, and I've just sent in volume two. It's going to be about romance adaptations, which was very different for me as somebody that does not tend to look at books as romantic books. So it was a nice little challenge. And yeah, it's it's very cool to have.
I guess, does two books make a franchise?
I don't know. I think it does. I feel like that's good. Yeah, very cool to have a series that's that's.
That is pretty damn cool. One of the things that has been very funny to me after the our chance meeting, which I don't even remember exactly what happened, I posted something on Twitter and you responded to it, and I don't even remember what that was.
Do you remember what it was?
The rain Man coming out? Probably Man coming out?
And I think I snarkily added, there's no there's no autistic representation or any autism discussion to show how this is still not dated.
Right right, So since that moment, I went, okay, I have to speak to her as somebody that's a father of two kids with autism and ADHD myself, and I'm, you know, going down the disabled path because I have screwed up my foot many times in my life and lots of other things happening. I went, I'm so just invested in finding out what this woman is feeling and believing. That led me to discovering your podcast. And I feel like over the last two weeks, the word ticklish doesn't
exist as a real word to me anymore. Tell me about your podcast, because I think other people periods.
Yeah, I mean, you know, ticklish business started.
It started as a blog because I spent so much time reviewing contemporary film that I really wanted to review, you know, older film, stuff that wasn't new to me, kind of like give me a little something different. And it was right as classic film was not you know, people were there was a classic film community, but it was mostly like relegated to Twitter, back when Twitter was
still fun. It faced me, yeah, exactly. You know, I discovered the TCM party hashtag and I made all these friends, and I slowly the blog became less about like just anything that was old and more anything that was like pre nineteen seventies studio era and then I figured, you know, I'll start podcasts, and podcasts were established, but they weren't glutted yet, and there was no as far as I knew at the time when I started it eight years ago, there were not any classic film podcasts.
The kreen A Longworth had not started. You must remember this, which.
Funnily enough, I always say, kream along. Ruth and I are in an imaginary feud.
She just doesn't know it. My same initial, my same initial nemesis. Kreta is great.
She's been on the podcast before and I think I brought that up to her and she's just like, oh, okay. But I decided I wanted to do a podcast, you know, about old Hollywood and kind of share the knowledge that I learned from reading and watching these movies. And I kind of always envisioned it as like a TCM intro with two people that was, you know, kind of more off the cuff.
And we're still doing it eight years later. I didn't even think we would still be doing it.
I took a little hiatus at the end of last year to write, like to finish my book, and we're back to doing it bi weekly. We just we have a new episode coming out soon. We just we have an episode of Dangerous when Wet about Esther Williams. We did a Jaws episode. Only took us eight years to finally talk about Jaws.
We're gonna do this spinal tap in a couple of weeks. That's gonna be really fun.
And it's just been really cool to not only get to go to like the TCM Film Festival and hang out, but interview you know, Paul Figue and talk about what he loves about classic film, and you know, we interviewed some old Hollywood celebs like Hayley Mills and Nancy Olsen and.
The Waite ed Asner. So it's it's always been cool.
And when we do that, they're always like, you know, you're you're so young, why do you young people want.
To talk about me?
Which I always laugh about now because I see a lot of younger people in their twenties talking about old Hollywood, and I'm like, I remember when I was the young whipper snapper that you know.
Now I'm not.
Young anymore and now it's you guys, so I it reminds also reminds me painfully of age.
So it's it's great to see how time has passed there.
That that is sadly true. Yeah.
One of the big things about the podcast I want to throw out there is you have gotten some absolutely insane guests over the years that you have quite quite a resume. There, some that I were impressed by, and I will let other people discover those on their own. But one I really want to throw out, dear friend of mine that I look up to and was great on your show is alonzod all Day, who last year just wrote just this incredible book on queer history in cinema,
like we've kind of been talking about. Hollywood Prize is a great book. Alonzo's fantastic, But I mean, Eddie Buehler, some of these other people that I've looked up to for years, like you have done some incredible work.
So just well done.
Thank you.
I was just I did a conference recently here in LA with Ben Mankowitz and somebody brought up that Eddie Muller did the podcast, and he was like, I don't want to hear about Eddie. I'm like, well, you didn't come on the podcast, so you're the only host that hasn't done it, so I'm not really sure what your.
Hang up is.
So well, to finish this off.
A lot of people that you know, maybe part of this conversation not super excited about disability representation.
Tell me about.
Welcome Boils and Gools, because man, I am so excited about this, Like I had never heard about this before I started researching you. But I will have to pre order this day one too.
Yeah, So that was I maintained that I will probably never have an ideas great is that ever?
Again? That was? That was the lightning rod ideal.
I'm friends with Alan Katz, who was one of the showrunners on the series.
And it all kind of had started.
I was very fascinated in the rights issues and why the show was not screaming, and I wanted to write an article about it, and my editor was just kind of like, yeah, nobody cares, so let's.
Not do that.
And I was like fine.
But I had become friendly with Alan, and you know, Alan enjoyed telling stories about working on the show, and so, you know, he was very fascinated by my book writing and he's.
Like, well, what's the next book? What are you going to do next? And I was like, I don't know, Like I got to figure something that I.
Can live with for like a year. You know something that I can really like not be just bored with. I'm like, and it's, you know, Olsen Twins' biography, which you'll probably be really hard because you know they're the Olsen Twins. I'm like, or you know, maybe I could write about Tails from the Crip, like we could do
like an oral history. I'm like, but somebody's done that, right, And he's like nope, And I'm like, wait what And he's like, no one's ever talked to And I'd found out that there was only one book that had ever been written about the show, was in nineteen ninety six, and it was really more of kind of like a picture heavy overall look at the series right as it was ending, and it had very limited scope. It was
very rose colored glasses, very jewelsilver heavy. It's a great book, it's been a fantastic resource, but it was far from the full excuse me, full stories, And I just I could see the title, like you know that part in Boogie Nights when Dirk Diggler just has that moment where he sees his name and the lights the sparklers are going off.
That That's what I saw, and we sold it very very quickly.
My publisher was very excited about it, and that's what I've been working on. I was supposed to have it done earlier, but the TCM wanting a second volume of my book kind of made me move it right.
But it's been utterly bananas to think of.
You know, I've talked to over one hundred and fifty people from all facets of the show.
I wish I had more. There's several people.
I wish I had that as of right now, I do not, and I probably won't. But to hear the stories of how the show came to be and who almost did it and why it ended, and you know the films, I mean, it's comprehensive right as.
Of right now.
I'm at the stage where I'm kind of like organizing everything.
And I looked at my page count and I was like, I really need.
To ask my editor, like how far over the word count am I allowed to go before I got to start pairing it down.
So it's it's very cool.
I always worry that I don't have enough story, and I again I look at that word count, I'm like, no, I think I do. So it's it's going to be really cool to put it out there. I hope that by the time it's out there, the show will be streaming.
My fingers are crossed. I'm hopeful. So twenty twenty seven, it's going to be very cool.
I have longed for years to see it restored like from the original what we can get from the negatives, and then edit it again because obviously shot on film, edit it on tape is very difficult to maneuver around in the restoration world. So I hope somebody that's independently wealthy loves the show.
From what I've heard, you know, the digitization is pretty good.
You know.
The donors are the ones that are in charge of the rights, you know, right now, so we know that they're they're doing good these days. So you know, I've been fortunate to talk to them about this, and you know, the show seems to be in good hands.
The hope is that, you know, somebody will.
Want to stream it, and I'm I'm very hopeful that's gonna happen. So and I know that there's been a lot of really good elicit four K transfers on YouTube of the series, so I'm hopeful that you know, it'll look really good. But I mean also I'm I'm of the fact that, like, I love that it looks on HD. You know, I know when I interviewed Todd Masters, who is the the effects makeup guy for the series, you know, he he said, he's all, you know, HD is.
Gonna ruin everything.
He's all, because you're gonna see every little scene, every little you know, makeup. He's like, the point was we could make it look a little shitty because it wasn't gonna be you know, ould trap blown up. So it'll be interesting to see when that happens.
Fully agree.
Links for the books, the website, everything is in the description below.
Where are you most active that you want people to follow you?
I am on all the social media's.
You can find me on Blue Sky and TikTok, Blue Sky, TikTok and Twitter at Kristin k Lopez. And you can find me at Instagram at Kristin Lopez eighty eight. And that's because I couldn't change it to Kristin k Lopez. So this is where we're at, so you can find me there. I have my sub stack, the filmmaven, which is the filmmaven dot substack dot com where I go long on all sorts of stuff, ticklish businesses, wherever you
get podcasts. We have a very active Patreon. We just did an episode on a review on My Mom Jane, the j Mansfield documentary, and we're doing a new mini series looking at contemporary Ish movies that have classic film vibes and we're going to be kicking that off with a leak of their own. So yeah, it's a Patreon dot com slash ticklish boots all.
Those thanks to the description below. Christen, this has been incredible.
Thanks for coming on here to talk about it. It's something that I want to be somebody that can share voices like this.
I appreciate it, and I mean when the book is out in November, I'm happy to come back and share more once people actually read.
The book appreciate it. Have a good one and we'll talk to you hopefully again soon. Thank you for.
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