If you're looking for more horror outside of the mainstream, look no further than Unsung Horrors, a podcast about underseen horror movies. I'm Lance and I'm Erica. Every other week we'll cover a horror movie with fewer than one thousand views on Letterboxed. We'll even give you double feature recommendations to pair with the movies we discuss. From gothic to shot on video, from Slashers to comedies, from Giallo to jay horror, We'll cover all the subgenres. So join us
as we unearth these hidden gems of horror. Follow us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. All at Unsung Horrors, available wherever you listen to podcasts, and part of the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. Hello there, and welcome back to the Disconnected. I'm here with Joe Lynch, the director of Suitable Flesh. That blu ray, I mean, I mean, wait, hold on, no, wait hey, look a physical copy a Suitable Flesh like wait, we great, if I just could just grab it right now.
I went the wrong way too. Oh that'd be so amazing. Oh, thank you so much for having me on. Ryan. Genuinely, this is ridiculous because I've appreciated your work for a long time, but something like this, it's it's monumental, especially for fans that have been you know, around horror for a lot of their life. This is like a true love letter to Stuart Gordon through and through. I'm grateful that you would do something like this, especially for a lot of people that Stuart Gordon was important to
super Flesh. I mean, first off, it's where did it come from?
For you? Like, this is a big deal. Blieve me as a huge disciple of Stuart Gordon, even as far back as say like nineteen eighty five when I first saw Reanimator, when I thought, because like I remember, I'll never forget it, Like there was a time I'm gonna take you way back, Ryan, way back to the eighties when they had radio ads for movie and it would always, you know, it would be this announcer that's like the most unbelievable spectacle of sci fi horror ever ever committed to
film, Enemy Mind rated R coming to you into a theater near you. Maybe not Enemy Mind, but you know it's a different story from a different day. But Reanimator had somewhat similar of you know, the very bombastic narrator talking about the movie. But at the end, you know, it was like experience the ultimate, you know, in medical Terror. HP Lovecraft's Reanimator and I like, it will scare you two pieces. I was like,
and then you know this film is not rated. I was like, oh, I'm in Like I was only like a burgeoning splatterpunk if you will at the time, but I thought that HP Lovecraft directed re Animator because the only other person I had ever heard had their name on top of a movie was John Carpenter, And I was like, well, who is this HP Lovecraft dude? Doing my what little non internet based research that I could at the time, I was like, oh no, he's the writer, but who's
the guy who directed it? Because that movie part of my French But fuck me up, and I like, you know, I then I got very much into Lovecraft. But then I was then I became a huge like fan of Stuart Gordon, not just because then he did Dolls and he did From Beyond, but he also I'll never forget being in the theater and watching Honey I Shrunk the Kids and going why is Stuart Gordon's name on Honey? I
shrunk the kids? This guy can do everything, and seeing how he traversed through genres so deftly, you know, between his horror output but being able to do you know, you know, robot jocks or space truckers, or the man with the ice cream suit, or the King of the Ants that no one talks about, who everyone should talk about that movie funny. Have you ever seen King of the Ants? Yeah, okay, all right, just a couple of years ago, all of the Stuart Gordon stuff as much
as I could do. You want me to blow your mind right now, let's do. It's a bit of there's a bit of a spoiler for anybody who hasn't seen Suitable Flesh. But the main actor in King of the Ants, who plays the lead, Chris McKenna, Right, Chris McKenna is the guy that's on the couch with Heather in the hypnotism scene, playing the same character from King of the Ants. Oh shit, he's Crowley from King of the Ants. Years later going through his own like more more trauma, so
to speak. I mean, there were all of these little things that you know, you don't have to be a Stuart Gordon fan or reanimator fan to hopefully enjoy Suitable flesh. But those in the inner circle that no Stuart's movies well enough, or know those you know those films well enough, will hopefully
be able to pick up on those little easter eggs. And you know the fact that Graham Skipper, who was doctor Herbert West in the re Animator musical and had worked with Stuart before, and Greg McDougall, who did the effects for Evermore and for re Animator, did the effects on this, the fact
that Miskatonic University from re Animator is in suitable flesh. I mean, these are the sort of secret handshake things that like I would want when I was watching Joe Dante movies back in the day and going like I know that robot from something, or like I know that that line or that those those secret
handshakes mean so much to horror, especially horror fans. I don't feel like you can do it as much in other genres, but in horror you can still get away with having your entire cast of characters being named directors from back in the day like they did in Sleepwalkers, you know, or or multiple movies. But these are sort of things that we as a culture and as
a family. It's the same as being in the line waiting for Robert England at a convention and you're in this three hour line and you see someone who's got a Necromantic shirt and you're like, hey, I like you know, I like Necromantic. Hey, I like Necromantic as well? Do you receive part two? And then you start going on a conversation with them. Next thing you know, you're best friends and you're exchanging numbers, even if you're
you know, three three towns away. So that's that's the equivalent of why I wanted to like infuse a lot of those little things into suitable flesh, because I know if I'm as big a nerd about Stuart Gordon movies, I know other people are going to be as well. And you can still show your mom where you can show your date who's never seen re Animator before,
and while you're laughing, they'll go like what are you laughing at. It's like, oh, that's the son of the security guard from Reanimator and he's in this one now, and you go like, well wait Reanimator, Oh hold on, I'll show you that next. We need those things to kind of create an algorithm for our significant other or our friends to be able to share the wealth of horror. So that's that's my long winded answer to whatever question you had. I don't even think you had a question. I'm just
excited to be here either way. Like it was the perfect just lead into what happened, because I swear I think Miskatonic was on the screen not even thirty seconds into the film and I bust out laughing at and my wife was like, what's what's going on? It just started it And it's that it's that connection that goes it's not even thirty seconds and this this is special already.
I got you. I mean, like even when the zipper opens in the first shot and you see Barbara Crampton and Graham Skipper in the same shot looking into the camera, like for some people there are there's going to be some audience members who know Stuart's work, who know Barber's work, and you know Graham's work, who are going to be like this is like a supergroup
getting together and starting to play. Because like obviously where I'm very aware of both of their bodies of work in a Stuart Gordon, you know, and Dennis Paoli scripted film, I'm not you know, this is not for nothing.
I'm very aware of that. But you know, you want to make sure that you feel like you're in good hands, especially when it comes to horror, and especially when it comes to and I hate using this word, but when it comes to intellectual property or IP right like Lovecraft and even like you know, the Miskatonic movies that Stuart and Brian and Dennis worked on, like From Beyond and Reanimator. When you're working in that world, when you set yourself up to be in that world, you kind of have to deliver
something. I know some critics that were like, oh, it wasn't Stuart Gordony enough, it wasn't crazy enough. Well, you know, like to each their own, but I know in my heart that I've paid respect enough to Stuart Beyond. I don't know if you got all the way to the end of the movie, but we have like that big dedicated to Stuart Gordon moment and they shot in Cthulu scope. You know, these are things that like, as a fan myself, I would appreciate and I know other people
would too. Well we did. This was such just a fun experience to watch something like this, And really there's a couple of things. I kind of want to just see what you're feeling, because this is so different than a lot of what we're getting nowadays. I mean, we're not getting a lot of something that feels like the early nineties like this. We're not getting
the risky type films. Unfortunately. A lot of the films that we get, especially in the horror genre, are neutered or lately it's from international scenes and those are killing it. But this feels like a fresh new step. And it's funny because it feels like such a nostalgic new step in a way.
I think like when it comes to movies like this, like what's interesting about some of the influences of Suitable Flesh, You know, everything from if you look at the nineties, you know things like The Last Seduction or Lost Highway, and if you go back into the eighties or Basic Instinct, but then you go back into the eighties with Body Double and Dressed to Kill and Body Heat, these are all films that were all so like throwbacks to film
noir from the forties, where you would have your hapless protagonist that gets thrown into a situation beyond their control, and then you have the femme fatale, and you know, in this case we had the home fatale, the doting
wife at home that ends up becoming part like part of the story. Like all of these tropes were things that like we're being cultivated way back with like Joseph Lewis and you know, and even uh, oh god, now it's going to kill me, the director Sam Fuller, like when they were making films and forties films and they were making it in this film noir world that was derived from uh, you know, doctor Caligary and German expressionism. It
all feeds into each other. And you know, all the movies that like I was looking at, I'm going, god, why don't they make these movies anymore? Why don't they make erotic thrillers? Why don't they make you know, body heartor the way like this that we haven't seen in a while. And you know, and honestly a lot of this is purely from coming from a movie goer standpoint, going, this is what I want to see. You know, I haven't seen a good sex scene or I haven't seen
good eroticism or just horny cinema in modern movies in a while. Now that said, then you know, supable flesh comes out and then poor things and salt burn, and it's like we're you know, I feel like there is a the pendulum has now been swinging the other way when we've been very conservative, whether it was through our culture in general politics. You know. Obviously the Me too movement, you know, changed the game up for many many
good reasons. But I think it also, you know, and I'm only speaking for myself, but when the Me Too movement happened, which needed to happen, and I'm so glad it did for so many reasons, it did make filmmakers, both male and female, a little skidtish to present sexuality in films because it meant that they had to shoot that stuff and they had to present that to the actors. And there is there's a very defined atmosphere on
a set when you're shooting a sex scene. It's it's a little uncomfortable, like it's, you know, like you're trying to capture passion and spontaneity in the most un sexual and most like, uh like almost voyeuristic way possible. You have all these people standing. It's almost like that scene in Boogie Nights when Nina Hartley is having sex in the parking lot. That's what it's like making a sex scene. That's exactly what it's like making a sex scene.
And I have been both on the directing side of that and the crew side of that. I've also been in sex scenes before, and it is incredibly uncomfortable. But if you can create an environment that allows everyone to feel like they are being respected and there's you know, total consent and everyone is on the same page, then you can hopefully create that chemistry. And for the last couple of years until maybe very recently, I think filmmakers have just been
a little scared of it. Also, and this is really insider baseball, but you know, when you get an intimacy coordinator involved, which is kind of a new job that has come up through the annals of the last couple of years, and making sure that people are being treated fairly and properly and
consensually. I've been on sets where, you know, it's kind of taken the air out of the room a little bit because someone is there, like looking at every single movement and going like could that you know, should that be like that? Or is that person cool with that? It kind of takes the sexiness out of the room and again, you know, like it needs to be there. Let me let me just posit that as well,
so I don't get in trouble. But it's true. But that's where, you know, that's a cost thing, that's having another crew member on set, and when you're doing something that's a little on the lower budget side, you know, can you afford to have that person on set every day when
you have a situation like this. So there's so many insider baseball reasons why eroticism and sexuality has not been you know, you know, I guess you know better displayed in film lately, and that was something that you know, I feel like superle Flesh at least reminded people that you can be horny in genre films and with you know, with without complete consequence, without it just being like, Okay, here's the slasher coming in and stabbing in with a
machete or something like that. That there's there's much more subtle consequences involved. But I'm glad we were part of that. And having a newly minted twenty one year old, you know, making his way to the world with Heather Graham in the same bed, that's got to be an interesting, uncomfortable scene already that was very very interesting. Our first day of shooting was the U as I like to call it, the Texas Switch sex scene between Heather,
Jonathan and Judah. Originally, our very first scene was the dinner scene when he brings out the brain zeno and everything. That was our very first scene. And you know, and I can be the first person to tell you that, like everybody was, you know, his first ay jitters, and everybody was a little bit nervous, and I was trying to make it as you know, easy as possible so that we can get upstairs and you know,
get into the meat and potatoes, so to speak. So you know, like I, we shot that first scene and people were kind of feeling each other out. Heather and Jonathan knew each other for years, but they had never worked together before. We had done rehearsals and we had done you know, kind of chemistry reads and all that crap, you know, so they were they were, you know, they were into it. But the
this is again day one. Judah had never been in a sex scene before ever, and here it is. I had to be the this the the the douchebag auteur. That's like, and there's going to be this shot where Jonathan goes down on you know, on on Heather, and then in the same shot Judah comes up. And not only are we representing all sex in a positive way by having a man go down on a woman, which we haven't seen a lot, we're also getting two characters in one shot. How
clever of me. Well, then you get to shooting it, and you're like, now I have these three absolutely gorgeous people in various stages of undress, all on this bed, and it's just me and the camera person. The sound person is off to the corner. They've already miked everybody up so that there's minimal people in the room so that there's as many comfortable there's as much comfortability on set as possible. But like, poor Judah, and this
is a testament to how amazing and mature that kid is. He had not turned twenty yet. He turned twenty four days later. I think personally he turned twenty one that night. But he you know, he was as nervous as anybody else. I mean, Jonathan and Heather had been in a few sex scenes before, Judah hadn't, and they were so supportive of him. You were so nice, and you know, everybody felt like, well, we're diving into this feet first, you know, or no, head first,
or genitals first, if you will. And but but everybody did it where it was completely respectful and everybody was having as good a time as you
possibly could in that situation. And you know, it's one of my favorite scenes in the movie because it really does set where Elizabeth Derby as a character is in her life what she desires, and it's done in a way that's a little bit more stylistic, that feels a little more like, you know, like like an erotic thriller for almost from like the eighties or whatever.
And that that was the whole point. Plus I got a positive representation of ASMR in a scene because everybody's using that now is like, oh, I got to turn the rain machine on, or I got to put the you know, you got to put something sexy on in the background. It's it's a YouTube video of waves crashing like that to me is like, that's indicative
of the modern sex scene in cinema. Yikes. I mean, that's a that's a really good tradition or transition into something that I've just always noticed through what you've worked on is a lot of the people that you you've been fortunate enough to have in your films. Like obviously you've got these massive people like
Heather Graham and some Hayk obviously that are already stars. But then you're getting people that are early, like to have to have Judah or to have Stephen Yun and then have I mean, Stephen just won multiple awards in the last month for an incredible piece of work that he did. And I don't want to, I don't want to selling an asshole, but I look like a
fucking genius, I swear to. That's what I'm getting at. Like how I don't know if it's just luck, but like the there are certain people that when others work with them, they seem to just have this this footpath in front of them that they're just like yearning for greatness and you've already guided them towards that. And it's not just you. There's probably five or eight people that it's just it seems like it's magnetic for that sort of thing.
Like I think, honestly, I believe it a lot of it is fucking luck, to be honest with you, Like, but I think a lot of it too, is you know, I came from uh like I don't want to see an acting background. But like my first love before I knew I wanted to be a director, was an actor. Either wanted to be an actor or wanted to be a makeup effects artist. So I wanted to be Tom Savini essentially. It wasn't until later on that I went like,
oh, a director gets to do all of this stuff. But I still studied acting and drama, you know, in school, and I've acted a bunch, you know, in other people's stuff, and I think that there's there is a communication level, and there's a certain vernacular and even just like an energy that you convey that I think directors like like Rob Reiner or Sidney Pollock, they they I think they they make other actors feel comfortable that they
are looking out for their best interests. They're not just worried about the shot
or the gag. And you know, anytime that I've ever approached any actor in anything that I've done, I always try to And I think this is just inherent because like I've been on the other side of the camera, is you know, like I'm very very much concerned and aware of character drama through character, and there are certain words you can say, there's certain skill sets that you have, There's certain ways that you can present notes or direction to
actors so that they don't feel if you just say do that but better, or that but faster or slower. I've been on that side where I'm like, that doesn't help me, dude. You know, but if if the actors feel like they're being approached not because of their Q score or their star meter or their face, and you know their amount the amount of followers they have, but you're truly approaching them from a from a skill and a craft
and a talent sensibility. Anytime that I've ever had an audition with an actor, you know, from Henry Rollins in Wrong Term two, to Peter Dinklage in Knights of Bad Asstam Samahayak in Everly, Anthony Mackie in Point Blank, especially Steven and Samara in Mayhem, and then with like Heather and Judah and
you know, even Barbara and Jonathan and Bruce in this movie. You know, anytime that we were like I was there to approach them to talk about the movie, it always came from a character standpoint and anytime that I'm on set, I that's that's my family, and I'm very protective of that family, and I want to make sure that, like obviously, that we are being responsible to the budget and the time and make sure that we make our day and what have you. But I'm not moving on until both myself and
my scene partner because I never call them like my actors. I call them my scene partner because I'm in it with them as well, Like we are doing this dance together. Just because I'm behind the camera doesn't mean I'm not in the scene in one form or another. I am as representative of this as they are. And if they're going to go off the deep end, if they're going to be on the hot seat, I want them to feel
like I'm there too, you know. And that's something that I feel like, at least when they're considering the movie, you're doing the movie, they at least know that I got their back, that I'm not just going like, you're gonna be great, You're gonna look good. We're gonna make sure
that you you know, you look great. It's like, yeah, that's fine, but you know, I think one of the things I'm most proud of with suitable flesh is the fact that you know, Heather's been getting all these great reviews, you know, but because I know she was nervous about this movie, because you know, she's she's very very much not maybe literally naked at points, but she's she's giving it her all. And there is a version of this film that could have been edited that could have used all
her bad takes. You know, being a director is not just being a good person on set, it's also being a good A good what's the right word, A good? Uh? I guess magnifier of the best take and the best choices that the actor makes that you can go, that's the best take. Take three, she is definitely where she needs to be as opposed to take two, which might have been bigger, it might have been a little more, you know, like showy. But that take three is an
amalgam of take one and take two. Like I I know what a good performance is being an actor myself when I'm in the edit room to pinpoint like that's what we're using that take right there? Yeah, but you know what you know, like and this is where the editor goes like, yeah, but her hand is up here when it should be down here and the continuity is not right. I'm like, you know what, no one's gonna give a shit. If the acting is bad, they're gonna notice all that stuff.
If the acting is great, they're not gonna notice continuity at all. Look at Thelma Shoemaker. She's been lucky enough to have Martin Scorsese directing these fantastic performances that don't give any shit about fucking continuity. Continuity is continuity. She can then cultivate and pick the best takes and then somehow make it into like this collage of performance and style that actually works so well well that you never notice continuity. Araors if anything, she leans into it so much and
it makes it part of the style. So that's really where like I want the actors to know before we step foot on a set, before you know, they say okay and let's do this, that you know I'm there with you. I've been there with you, and I want to make you want. I want to help you bring the best performance out possible at any cost.
And you know, whether that means we have to go over, or whether or not we need another take, or whatever it is, I am there for them and they you know, they they show up and we become scene partners together and it all usually works out really great. A lot of
those choices that you're making are serving more than just the actors. One of the things I really wanted to bring up about this not seem to talk about regarding suitable flesh anywhere, and that's this this I don't know, like tightrope that seems to be walked in horror lately, that you're you're discussing mental health in a lot of this movie. But it's it's not like a lot of modern horror films, which are mental health and trauma shoving down your throat.
It's just this is a fact of life and that these are people that are going through something. It's not a message that is trying to get through necessarily. It's telling a story and this is just an aspect of that. Was that Was that something that was conscious or was that something that I just felt. I'm so glad you brought that up, because you're right, like it's something that I'm I'm glad. I gotta admit, I am blessed that a lot of the stuff that I didn't think was going to be brought up.
You know, whether the movie came out in Tribeca or the theatrical release and all the festivals, and you know, then all the release things after I've done a lot of press, and you know, I'm so grateful that like things like the queer aspect of the film and the sexual felidity and the gender aspect of the film has come out no pun but done in a way where it felt like we were we weren't shoving it down people's throats. There still is a base, there's a broth, if you will, of the movie
that I want to present to the audience. And if they get the other stuff, the more subtectual stuff, the more subversive stuff, great again, just like those handshakes. If you don't get it, it's no no harm,
no foul. But of course we're thinking about it. Of course, you know, the mental health side of it was so important, especially with dealing with you know, Heather's characteristics, the fact that she is a health professional that is trying to help other people and not indemnify or damn them for having you know, these And I only want to use the word issue like because look I have and I've never talked about this, but like I've been
suffering from depression since I can remember. You know, there was a time where I took you know, antidepressants and you know, just to stop the screaming, just to have the other voices in my head just subside a little bit, and you know, to be honest, like I hated it because you know, I am a type of person that you know, can be at you know, an eight or nine at times and then a two or
a one at other times. Not to say that I'm bipolar. I've never been diagnosed as being bipolar, but I have some extreme highs and lows, and you know what that I think that's part of the the wonderment of being an artist is that you can acknowledge your highs and your lows. And the the meds brought me to like about a five and a six at times,
or maybe sometimes a four, but it kept me about that level. I couldn't have been more fucking boring, and like, even to myself, I just felt like I was just coasting along and I had to embrace those highs and lows. I had to embrace the screaming. I had to embrace those other voices. And I haven't been on a medication like that ever since God since like two thousand and two or two thousand and three, and you know,
I really kind of embraced that. And one of the things that I like, we, especially Heather and Judah and I talked about in those early scenes was ah, the desperation that one had as to get to the point of therapy. It takes a lot for someone to admit that they need help, and you know, supernatural histronics aside in this movie, there is there
is a way that you can watch this film. You take out the necronomicon, you take out the Cuthulian stuff, you take out the you know, the the dead body roaming around in certain points, and you could see this as you know, a cry for help for people with you know, multiple personality disorder. I know that there's another phrase for it, but you know, that's the one that always comes to mind for me. And that's something that like I've actually had some people come up to me like after screenings and
say like was that stuff really there? And like, oh, what do you mean? And they'd be like, well, because it feels more like this could be a psychological thriller and this was all just in people's heads the whole time, and they are manifesting the supernatural element as a way of as almost a defense mechanism for their own you know, their own you know kind of chemistry, chemical imbalance, and how they are dealing with it. You know, we do live You're right, we do live in a time where
trauma horror is like all the rage. I didn't I didn't want to go down that path. There was actually a version of this script that could have delved more into the trauma side of it, and I was like, I would rather get to the stuff that creates the trauma and at least know how to understand it, because you know, at the end of the day, the characters where they end up in this film are in very very different places
than where they started out, which was obviously intentional. But I wanted to create a sense of madness that you know, I think we all know very well in our own selves. I think that's something that Lovecraft was very slick. You know, even back in the teens and twenties, almost a century ago. He was dealing with that, you know, whether it was himself, but he was dealing with that from a more scientific approach and almost psychological
approach. So that's really no, believe me. We talked a lot about that, and you are the first person to actually bring that up. So I apolaug you, sir, thank you for thank you for getting us.
It was I don't know, I'm I'm a psych major, so I guess that's going to come to me. But it genuinely the whole thing, And I don't know if you heard me the first time, it just felt so respectful, it felt so real and so just acknowledging that there are people facing this and like you, I've you know, a very very similar thing.
I've been fighting depression for years, took medics for a little while, but I think just embracing the creativity side of a lot of this and going no, just fucking deal with it and work around it, and your life can be so much better than being quit. Just just find the other ways, exactly, Just find other outlets and avenues to be able to confront because you know the one thing that I had to learn, you know, I started doing therapy again last year just so much was going on in my life and
I needed someone to unload besides my wife. I needed is to unload my my trot, my psyche on other people. And you know, my other states of affairs to someone on the outside front and a little more objective. And you know, it's always been scared, scary for me to do that because anytime that I used to do it in the past, I'm like, oh god, I got to do the whole fucking story all over again.
And then you know, then I got to do two or three sessions, and then I find out that that person's not right for me, and what have you. So you know, I I went I went back to therapy, and I'm so glad I did because it was able to therapeutically be able to talk about these sort of things and get it off my chest without having to resort to chemicals that are stifling it down and compartmentalizing it in a way. And then look, I'm not poo pooing the medical route or the pharmaceutical
route at all. You know, to each their own, everyone's got a different, you know, path to their own happiness. I found that I am happiest when I am dealing with it in a creative kind of realm, whether it's making a movie or you know, creating anything you know, visual or anything from an artistic standpoint, or even just falling into a great movie or falling into a great you know story, whether it's on TV, film, whatever, Like, I find myself pulling myself out of those situations through
art and in other cases it's through my own art, you know. And I think that that's been like the thing that's kind of saved me, you know, for so many years, and that was something that I wanted to make sure was was in the movie as well. It works very well. Speaking of your art, you clearly are an advocate for physical media. Like there's a lot of stuff that you've been a part of that exist in time. And that was so awesome, by the way, that was so cool.
A fan of Lynch, Oh that was so cool. Oh that's so neat. I had Knights of Bad asthem. I wasn't gonna pull it out to bring up bad memories, but no, no, I But you know what, that's that's another element of trauma. Dude. I went through the worst, like one of the worst mental phases of my life through that movie.
And now I can happily say that I've gotten through it and I've embraced the trauma that was Nights of Bad assden to the point where you know, I used to take someone aside for forty five minutes and when they dude, I look bad Nights of bad As Them, We're like, whoa hold on, do you have about forty five minutes to an hour, because I'm going to explain to you the fucking nightmare that that movie was. Now, yeah, I'm just like, I'm so glad you liked it. And I'm not
even being snide about it too. It's like I have learned throughout the years. I mean, Knights of bad Asden was my second film, you know, and I had a good track record up to that point. Wrong term two was you know, kind of a sleeper hit, and everyone really liked it and it was very well respected. So I thought like, I'm the new hot thing, and then I make Nights of Bad Ass Them, and then reality set in and I got the face like that ah, and I
thought like, Okay, I've tarnished my filmography. I've screwed everything up. Now I have a pock mark on my career. But so many of our favorite filmmakers have movies like that that, to them are total dogs, that are completely destroyed, that have been you know, maybe misunderstood when they first came out and are now considered masterpieces just because the right people saw them or the right audience found those movies. And that's a movie that a lot of
people really enjoy. And who am I to say they're wrong? I used to say they're wrong, but that was because of my own baggage. Now I go, I'm so glad you like that movie, because you know, like, I'll sit there and go, but have you seen Everly, Oh that movie sucks. I'm like, wait a second, I love that movie. You never know, you can never you can never truly predict the subjective eyeballs that are going to be presented onto your art and onto your story.
They could be bringing. There could be people that are going to watch suitable flesh who have a complete aversion to Heather Graham or sex in movies or backup cameras. Who knows what's going to possibly trigger them into what they're going to
like or not. Like, I can't control that. All I can do is put the best version of that and of myself and my version of that out there possible, and then you know, kind of see where the chips fall from there, and then by then it's not even your movie it's everybody else's. They get everything else make it what they want. I am Adam Lundy, co host of They Live by Film, a podcast dedicated to bringing
you film discussion on interviews from around the world. Every week, my co hosts Chris Haskell, Zach Bryant and I discuss a wide range of films, from monumental classics like Vertigo and the Rules of the Game to the craziest schlockiest movies ever made like Deathbed and everything in between. We are also lucky enough to have sat down with some of the biggest players in the boutique blu ray
and film restoration game. If this is your thing, then come hang out with us every Thursday at seven pm Eastern wherever you normally stream your podcasts and now as part of the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network. But with physical media, I mean you're talking about people discovering it. You've left, You've left this little trail of breadcumbs, breadcrumbs for everybody that a lot of artists don't
get to do nowadays. A lot of stuff is you know, languishing after festivals or stuck on streaming and rights like that, as you know, fucking stuff over. But you're even going back and you know, giving us a commentary for beast Master that you're moderating for Vinegar Syndrome and doing stuff like that, and that's such such a cool thing for a filmmaker that is not even invested in that film in the outside world, Like, why do that?
Why is that important to you? Because when I was growing up, I you know, when when I was a little kid, I had Fangoria and cine Fantastic. I had these magazines, and you know, there was certain shows like Lights Care or Action that Leonardimoy hosted for Nickelodeon. There were these little little like peaks behind the curtain as to the process of making movies.
Then in the nineties when you had laser discs and DVDs, and there was in the Internet obviously, but there was a much wider gap of opportunity to be able to allow people to see how a movie's made. It used to be I just thought everybody, every director had a big bullhorn and they were always on a crane at all times, and they're floating around and everything,
screaming and yelling at people. And then you start listening to commentary tracks and you start seeing behind the scenes, stuff that you don't normally see, you know, if you're not media, because normally they would have like epks that would go out to the media and maybe you'd see them on the nightly news, but not in this form. And that kind of behind the scenes processing fodder was my gold I cherished. I still have all my laser discs.
I you know, I started collecting them primarily because I got more out of laser discs and the commentaries and the behind the scenes and the lead of scenes and all that stuff. I got more out of the filmmaking process than I
did in film school. The only thing I got out of film school was free use of the equipment, to be honest, and I liked my school, but I anything that I learned about make truly making movies and the craft behind it, the artistry behind it, all came out of those special features, and I thought, well, you know, like these are going to
be around forever, you know, But obviously the market has changed. You know, back in the nineties when DVDs were out, the reason why we had so much stuff, we had a plethora of special features was because they had the space for it on the disc, so they had to put stuff on there, so they almost like forced film school onto unsuspecting sinists and burgeoning
filmmakers for years. And then the marketplace changed and DVDs weren't as you know, as profitable, and you know, blu rays obviously were an extension of that. But now we were getting into streaming, and the thought process that studios were coming from was, well, people don't want that shit anymore.
And I was like, there's going to be a whole There's going to be multiple generations of people that are going to have just as much passion about the craft of filmmaking and just the art of filmmaking, but now they're not going to have the resources of films that have all of those peaks behind the scenes and to show how the sausage is made, so to speak. And like, I feel like it's my contribution to pass the baton onto future generations.
Whether they like my movies or not, they can still be able to go back, at least in most of them, and to see like how is Mayhem made, and how is everly made? And how is suitable flesh made. I mean, you know, I'm not trying to pooh pooh the studio, but you know, when they were talking. I knew that, you know, through RLJ, we were definitely going to have a physical media release, and you know, in the past, I've worked with them for years
and we always had a bunch of special features, including a commentary. I am the type of idiot that would literally rip commentaries off of the DVD make them into MP three so I can listen to them in traffic. That's how much I love commentaries so like and as you know, I can talk a little bit, but I love talking about movies and going on diatribes or talking about that particular shot, like I'm proud of the movie and I want to fucking talk about it, and if it means that someone else is going to
want to listen to it, awesome. But the studio was like, oh, I don't. We didn't really have any plans for any special features that we're producing, but if you have anything, you can send it our way. I'm like, oh okay. Now, back in the day, like with Wrong Turn two and with Knights of bad Ass them, I think even with Everly, it was built into the budget that there would be an ePK
crew. We didn't have that on suitable flesh. I didn't have that on Mayhem, we would have anybody that was shooting something, you just shot it. So it ended up being me a lot of times or some of my
crew members, and then we would put something together from there. I knew that we had a wealth of footage from the making of Suitable Flesh, and there were all these ideas that I had everything from, you know, the storyboards, because I had never really done copious storyboards the way I did in Suitable Flesh, and I used to love those segments where they would do storyboards
to film comparisons. I love that shit. So I'm like, well, I can do that, and I know you like, I edit most of my own work anyway, so I can just put that together, or you know, a conversation with Steve Moore, my composer. The composer never gets the amount of respect that they deserve for technically doing the whole movie together.
And Steve and I have worked together before, and I was like, well, we can do you know, a conversation with Steve because I'm a big fan of his from Zombie and He's done multiple things that I've done, and I like talking to the guy, you know, why not? And then with a commentary same thing. It's like to be able to sit down with Barbara and one of the producers, Bob Portal, and be able to just
kind of talk about the nitty gritty of the movie. I know, at the very least, anybody who is even like somewhat temporarily or possibly a fan of this movie, if they dive into the special features, they're going to find something in there that's going to make them either rethink the movie or enhance their thinking of the movie, or who knows, maybe pick up a camera themselves and go I can do better than that. Good, go for it,
because you know what, I did the same thing. So that's why my love for physical media, but also being a vessel for these special features I think is so important now that filmmakers embrace that, because that if we stop demanding it go on these physical media releases or even you know, like on streaming services. I did a commentary for Mayhem with Stephen for Shutter and it was great. This time they were just like, na, Na, we're good. I'm like, all right, fine, but I could have
gotten Heather and Barbara and Judah. But whatever. But at least I know that there's something of an archive of all the hard work that the cat and the crew put together to make this movie. There is a there's a physical record of that and then shows as like a testament to all the hard work that people put into this movie. Not that the movie is not enough, obviously, but it is always just a you know, an easy way to champion all the hard work that goes into it. So thank you for always
standing up for stuff like that. As a last question, Uh, were some that were, you know, inspirational for you when you were younger? Do you remember specific titles that you would recommend people to check out that you you loved back in the day, The commentaries and stuff like that. Oh for commentaries, Oh yeah, I mean one of all right, So the
John Millius and Arnold Swarzenegger commentary for Conan the Barbarian. That that one is just rife with UNPC comment like conversation that would not sway now, but just it truly feels like it's a fly on the wall situation, which I love. I love that one. Any Scorsese commentary is just gold. The Raging Bull commentary that is actually on the Criterion channel now, that one is highly
recommended. One of my favorite, like fun commentaries. Is the Kevin Smith commentary that he did for mal Rats, which he got like the whole crew and cast together, it actually shot it on video. That was one of the first video commentaries that I had ever seen. But you can just kind of tell that they are had like they had a blast making as hard as it was, They at least a cast with having an absolute blast, and you know that that definitely shows Let me think, uh, I think those
are those are the ones that like kind of spring to mind immediately. You know, I think, if anything, to pick your favorite movie and if it has a commentary, trust me, there will be something on there that you will go like the best. The best commentaries to me are not the ones that they record. Because there was a time where they knew DVDs were
profitable and making profit. They built it into the budget. They also built it into the marketing schedule that the cast and crew would do the commentary before the movie came out, So everybody on the commentary, like for Fucking Blade or ghost Ship or whatever have you, we're all recording those commentaries before the movie either bombed or did successfully and was critically louded. So everyone's like patting themselves on the back, like, oh man, you guys are great giving
modies. It's the commentaries that when you can be more reflective on the resonance of the movie, whether it's a couple of years later, twenty years later, fa all right, my hands down, My two favorite are it's a
two fer. It's anytime you get John Carpenter and Kurt Russell in the same room and you can listen to them on the thing and Big Trumble Little China, like you truly feel like you're at a bar and these two schmos walked in and you just have the best fucking conversation with them, Like they pull no punches, especially Carpenter, he gives and he gives zero fox. But that's what I want to hear. I don't want to hear people blowing smoke up each other's ass. I want to hear them go, I really fucked
up there. Now. I'm not the biggest fan of that moment there, but that moment's great. Also, another commentary that was recorded for the laser disc of Texas Chainsaw Masker was one of the first ones that Toby did. I believe with Dan Pearl and Gunnar Hanson, I think they were in the same room. Sometimes it's hard when you can hear like they did separate interviews and they splice them all together. I like the ones where they're like all
in the room together, probably have a couple of beers. They're watching the movie and they're just regaling old stories. The one that they did for Elite's original version of the Texas Chainsawn Masker is one of the best because Toby is the first person to say, Oh, man, I really fucked up there,
you know, like that's what I want to hear. I want to hear that, like whether it was a choice or not, or whether it was you know, like a happy accident or something that they spent fucking weeks on that corpse that's sitting on top of that that but that memorial that they really put the time into it. You know, like I want to hear all that stuff. So, you know, if it's just for recreational fun or if you really want to take notes, find your favorite movie and try
to find a movie that that has a commentary that was like retroactive. You know. So a lot of the movies that came out with like Shout, Factory and Arrow and Vineger Syndrome sever and all those companies. If they have a commentary that's come out like within the last couple of years, and the movies maybe ten or fifteen years old, that's the one to go for less.
So maybe the ones where it's like all right, it's been recorded, like they're saying like, yeah, we're recording this two days before the premiere and oh my god, Detroit Rock City is going to be the number one hit of the summer and you're like, no, it's not. Nope, that that did not happen. Sorry. You know, but if you find at least one of those movies, I guarantee you're gonna have a a wildly new experience with that movie, and one you'll never forget. Well said,
thank you for your time, Joe. I know you got other places to be. I appreciate this. This was incredible, Ryan, honestly amazing questions. It was such an honor to talk to you like it. You gave a good question and you were great. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thanks so much, Shoe. Hopefully we can talk again someday. Oh tell Jeremy he really missed out, so for him, Oh, I will have a good all right Bye, bye bye. Thank you for listening to the Disconnected
podcast. There's one big thing that you could do to help the show, and that is to leave a rating and review on the podcast service of your choice. Thank you tell me no Hello. This is Matt and Emily from Scarecrow Video in Seattle, Washington. Did you know that we have the largest video collection in the world. We have over one hundred and forty six thousand titles and growing. That's over three times more than Netflix, Amazon Max,
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