My name is Chris Gregory. I'm the producer and co-director of the show, and I play Nathaniel Dex. Welcome to the first of a short series of bonus episodes of The Dex Legacy. in which our writer and creator, Emily Inkpen, chats with members of the DEX Legacy cast. We start today with Charlie Richards, who plays Wren.
Charlie is a professional actor who has appeared in two West End theatre productions in London, in feature films and in TV commercials. Emily caught up with Charlie via Zoom from his home in London. Hello and welcome to a very special interview with one of our star performers in The Dex Legacy. This is Charlie Richards, who voices Ren Dex, the youngest of the three.
and the instigator of the drama in season two, or was he? Do you think that's fair? I think that's definitely fair to say. I think Ren being the dreamer. um the passionate dreamer that he is and his um his love for his siblings definitely caused some problems in season two i think we can do spoilers i should have asked that first
No, no, I mean, I think we can because, you know, if we're sharing this after the effect, we can put that in there. Spoilers abound, everybody. They're coming. Exactly. So, yeah, he leads the escape attempt. And obviously it doesn't necessarily go well, but I think he starts off with good intentions. Yeah, he definitely does. He does it for them, for himself, obviously, as well, but also for his siblings that he has a very strong connection with.
I say siblings obviously to him that they're not actually siblings but to the story they refer to as siblings often and their relationship is certainly extremely close I mean I would say they are siblings but then it's sort of like it's weirdly blurred it's like They are like incredibly, incredibly close because of the experiences they've shared. But then they're like also definitely not related, which.
Not related. Not that kind of story. Very not related. We need to emphasize this. We do not need a Lannister situation going on here. We've had enough of that. Yeah, he's a rapscallion and he definitely caused some problems in season two, but he did have the best intentions. Oh, he definitely goes on to continue causing problems as well because he's just...
Oh, yeah. Like he is the key sort of pain in the ass when it comes to three kids. He just continues. And I love it. And I'm writing the book version of season one at the moment. And giving him more moments of just being a pain in the neck is so much fun. So no spoilers for that one because...
It's not available, but there is more of Ren being an arse coming in. I feel like you've not told me very much in case I do Tom Holland, because I, much like the listeners, have no idea what's happening in the next season. I probably won't know until just before because I've got a big mouth. I was going to say that because are you the kind of person who reads the scripts in advance?
Or are you the kind of person who reads as they go? So you read in advance? Yeah, I think I see benefits to both. For me, I read in advance.
I'm a bit anal about it and sort of want to know everything and know where it's going. Kind of like Alan Rickman as Snape, I would assume, wanting to know because you can sort of feather some stuff in between if you want to know, you know, a big... gear change or character happening or something it's um i think you get more out of it if you know it all in advance you can find it all right
ready to go. Yeah. And I've definitely, I'm a bit famous for this. After sort of recording sessions, we go to the pub and Chris is terrified every single time because after two pints, I will just answer questions about all of it. and about the book and have just blurted out the final end of the final trilogy at the very end before. And yeah, it is really terrible.
You could never go for drinks with like fans and stuff. I mean, luckily I'd had a couple of pints as well, so I tend to forget what you say. But I think Chris has got a much better memory than I do. Yeah, I think we need to start doing NDAs, like soft NDAs. You should. We've got listing numbers now. We need to start properly looking into it. We do. And it doesn't have to be a full dex level NDA, you know, like life altering.
But, you know, probably just a page would do. Okay, so obviously you joined us. with the original episode, The Bomb, which was meant to be a standalone, but obviously things escalated. So, you know, which as a writer means the world because obviously having the same actors and the same voices all the way through is amazing.
And you always end up writing with the voice in mind as well. So it really helps. But would you say that the production processes have changed between seasons one and two? Oh, of course. Goodness. We did season one asynchronously, didn't we? So, I mean, listening back to this, there's obviously huge differences between season one and two for us and the listener. Doing season one without being in the room with everybody else posts its own.
you know interesting challenges and dynamics i don't think it i don't think the work suffered for that at all i think everybody really brought it to life i listened to one of the episodes just before season two came out so i could hear the difference because i was interested and obviously we leveled up with orpheus oh you know everybody had different mic setups and and we're doing it in cupboards or under duvets or in their own studios
And then when we got to Orpheus, we were all there looking at each other and really able to get to the goal of each scene quicker. Actually, it's the most interesting thing is because we had you in the room. Chris obviously and then Richard's engineering were really able to pinpoint exactly what we wanted and more often than not got it in one take I think it's fair to say. Yeah I mean like there's such a big difference between
listening to you guys line by line, which is what it is asynchronously. And then Chris having to stitch it all together line by line. And then just listening to you run the scenes through in a single take. And it was like listening to it already recorded, like it was already part of the thing. It was crazy and magical. And saved Chris a lot of time.
Yeah. And also it just meant that you were in the same level. You were just, you were just acting to the same sort of like energy straight off the bat. And that made all the difference to us.
the listeners will know that we you amped it up considerably for season two with you know the drama and the stakes and stuff and i think it would have been possible to do it asynchronously again obviously we we'd met each other and we knew how each other worked by then and we'd heard the first cut of season one but I think with the content of season two it would have been much more difficult to achieve that without being together.
being able to see you know cam for instance from my position i could see him we were you know responding to each other the timing was we're snapping through it was um it was really useful I think tonally it really helped. And obviously on the writing front, knowing that I was writing an entire season at the start of the process made a huge difference. Like season one was written.
on the go as we were releasing and i had no plan and it's an actual miracle that it happened and it's more of a miracle that it was successful so you know i mean yeah these things are always kind of a miracle but i think season two just gave us an opportunity at every point to just level things up and yeah hopefully season three it's gonna be the same well i mean from the cliffhanger of season two i think um i think it's gonna go up again
Yeah, and it's not going to lead in a direction you necessarily think. Say again, you've not told me anything because why would you? Because I've got a big mouth. Yeah, well, and also I'll just send you all the scripts and go, ta-da! Exactly. Moving on, I guess, did you think that Ren progressed in the story? And I mean, this isn't necessarily a given in season two because it spans a week.
So it's a very short amount of time, which is a blink, you know, but it can be pivotal. Like a week can make a huge difference to a person. Do you think that that happened in season two? Yeah, I think the... there's a small difference between season one Ren and season two Ren I think you know look at it like that season two Ren was always there in season one I think
the catalyst was just you know it just sped up the whole process and and that week a lot does happen in that week and a lot can happen in that week and he's obviously been sat on that and formulating his plan and So I think it was always there in season one. I think season two, although it is a week, it does feel like so much happens. It could be believed that it's longer than a week, although we know in the timeline it's not.
And I think that is because Wren, as you know, plans everything. He's very particular and anal with certain things. And once he's got that. concept and idea he just can't shake it he's got to run with it which is why it makes it so stressful when in order to do what they need to do they need to use the dominosi net which is obviously
You know, if there was another opportunity, another thing he could have used, he would definitely go for that because the net is the only way that causes instant friction and problems right from the off. So I think... The passion that he has is obviously so high and he's so driven if he was going to resort to that. Yeah, I think.
As you say, if there was any other way, it would have been, yeah. I think season one and season two run over the same because they can't shake an idea and it's just so important to him.
and his siblings and I think you asked me ages and ages ago and we did a Q&A I think passionate is the one word that I use to describe rent it's just like fire whatever it is he needs to achieve it's just his efforts would you agree as the writer yeah and I think like that passion it sometimes like takes over because sometimes you just get totally blinkered and that
is what drives him being such a pain in the ass because he doesn't he doesn't like he gets so blinkered and then he goes and and tries to confront the issue because he thinks that if this is the way you know if everybody just understood they would do it and they would listen. And there's even a shadow of that in season one when Tristan and Nathaniel are talking about the bomb and how Wren went and told them that something else had happened like this on the ancestral planet, which is Earth.
And it was an absolute disaster and too many people died. And they're like, you know. Don't do this. Exactly. And you can just imagine Wren knocking on the door of the library. You don't want to do this. Don't do this at all. And yeah, I think Tristan's words were, it was a long way of saying, I told you so. So yeah, he is an absolute pain in the ass. I totally agree with, you know, with that assessment of him and the blinkered thing and the passion thing and the, yeah.
I think, okay, so, I mean, one of my questions is, given the whole of season two, were there any standout moments for you, any favourite scenes that really sort of resonated with the characters and the story?
Yeah, I mean, we felt the shiver in the room. Obviously, what did we do? We did two days at Orpheus and there were a number of scenes where you guys would be, there'd be like, we'd finish on the last line and there'd be a pause where... the three of us actors were waiting for somebody to say something and it would just be you and Chris going like just a sigh and then Chris would go okay I think we've got that one
The big one for me, and I think actually if you spoke to them, they probably say the same, is when they're in the tunnels and they know. We're doing spoilers, right? Oh, yeah.
they're in the tunnels and they know that they've been caught up to and they know that they're literally above you know the manhole above them um and they don't know what the outcome is going to be and it's just them three and it's like the truest moment for me with the three of them together i guess it's like ride or die it's like you know the way to say it it's like realizing the weight of the situation but still
gunning for it because you're together as a three and you know three musketeers in for a penny and for a pound and it's really I remember doing it I think we did that one a few times because we knew the gravity of it and we wanted to get everything you know absolutely perfect there are a couple of scenes where you guys were happy with it and we would say you know if we've got time would you mind if we hit it one more time because we think we can get you know just a little more
juice out of that or we can you know really hit something but yeah I think that was the one where they just take a deep breath before entering madness above yeah I think it It's interesting that you talk about that scene because I wasn't necessarily expecting it, but no, you're right. That one was a big one. It's that moment when they realise that they're going to have to kill people.
intentionally and people are going to die are they going to die though because this is a moment of choice and they can choose and they're going to choose violence basically they are choosing violence today and yeah it's like all or nothing and I think that you're right as a trio that was a huge moment and you know a moment of desperation really and your performance just completely yeah they've grown up with lots of the people that were waiting up above the manhole so the whole scene was
layers so much because it was obviously they'd Ren had the plan and they were getting there and the plan was getting more dreamy and big ideas about what they wanted to do when they were free and then of course if Dex style they're faced with another problem
But this one is bigger. You know, it was much larger than anything they dealt with. And they are still kids. We have to remind ourselves often when we're recording or talking about it, they are still, although they've seen lots and they've been, you know.
subjected to experiments and horrible things they are still kids so they grew up very fast and trying to battle with that choice of what they really want to achieve and then the thing they need to overcome is people they've grown up with and know very well similarly gone through things like that and the balance of that was difficult but I think that was when we you really felt it in the room lots of the stuff super high octane and
dramatic but for me that was the one where it really hit home that it's really leaning into the darkness of a decision for a group of kids which you wrote you monster you're a monster See, this is where it helps having a trilogy already written at the end because I know where they're going. Because if I didn't have that, I might have shrunk from that moment and been like, you know, I can't do this. I'll do it differently.
Because I know where they're going. I know it has to happen. And then sometimes I get to a point and it's a really hard point. I'm like, damn it. I have no choice but to write this scene and sort of like created a problem for myself there. But also I love the process because obviously I write the words and then you guys bring it to life. in a way that is so much more than I could ever ask for. And the delivery gives it the gravitas that it needs.
And yeah, getting across, like I had someone read the books before and something that sort of they sometimes struggle with is the absolute difficulty. of fighting a system that you have been raised within and knowing that the system is toxic, knowing that it's damaging, knowing that the people there I've not got your best interests at heart, but still wanting to please them and still wanting to do the things that they approve of. That urge to seek approval.
It doesn't go away and it doesn't get any easier. And, you know, they, I think in that moment, they can only do it because they're together. I think if they were on their own individually, they just wouldn't be able to do it at all. And I think that you guys got that across brilliantly. And, you know, I mean, when you were in the studio and we were saying, yeah, we've got it. And you guys were saying, can we get another run at that? Because we can do more. I love that because.
it proves that you're all in it together and you're all thinking no we can we can knit this tighter and that's where more collaboration comes in because, you know, you, you as a writer can be like, you know what? First takes brilliant. It's more than I could ever drop. And as an actor, you're like, no, no, no, this is just.
this is just go one, like we can ramp up. And yeah, that's where your skills come in and make it better and better. And I seriously appreciate that. I wanted to ask, were there any favorite episodes? or interludes. Yeah, because I know Cam loved episode four and he literally came in the room in Orpheus and was like, episode four is a banger and we're barely in it, but that's the way. Cam loves it. I mean...
I think he was listening to the episodes when they were dropping as well, even though he knows the story. He was shocked every time something happened. Oh, Kant's brilliant. Because it's annoying because the one I just described is one of my big favourites. That's fine. I just think the tunnel stuff was brilliant. I mean, obviously, as an actor...
Mostly I do comedy stuff. Yeah, yeah. I was going to mention that. I'm raised on comedy, so I'm always leaning towards comedy. And one of my favourite scenes. Because as dark as Dex is, we do have some little laughs in there as well to keep you all happy. And so it's not super dour all the time. When the two agents are in the tunnel, I mean, all the tunnel stuff was brilliant. I think that the production...
You know, the post stuff that Chris did for the tunnels, you know, it's so good. It's so immersive, that bit. Not that the other stuff isn't, I just think when you've got your headphones on and you're hearing the drips and the echoes and there's just something about it that it really, it made it so much easier to imagine those scenes, like a film, like you could just feel everything.
but yeah when the two agents come i mean the the script was just hilarious it's real old school comedy like just ridiculous farce really in in the midst of this dramatic you know epic story these two sort of little amoebas, little yes men come into the tunnel facing three vicious killers. talking about the benefits of decks and the schooling system. I just thought it was hilarious. And the delivery of it was just as funny as reading it on the page. So yeah, the comic relief in that moment.
And again, because you've written it, that it's super, super, super dramatic. You're building up all the tension. Everything's happening. Where can we go? There's nowhere to release the pressure unless something happens. and then you come in and you just undercut it with a really really funny scene that the audience then you can have a moment's breath.
Giggle, enjoy yourself. Forget all of this stuff for a second. And then once it started, it's straight back up again. Yeah. See, I love the fact that during that scene... your character is actually doing a loop behind them, ready to slip their threes. It's always there. You know, the darkness doesn't stop. It's just that you sort of forget what's happening because this lovely scene is happening.
John Baberton was the other agent and he's just brilliant. This sort of dump show they both brought was believable. It's not ridiculous. It is ridiculous, but it's not... uh disgenuous it was just perfect and then yeah like you say at the end it's over very quickly for those two precious agents that will enjoy the benefits of their uh of their employer
Yeah, they go down there with such good intentions. They're just going down there. They've got to round up some kids who have escaped from, you know, Dex Island. They're just going to bring them back. kids, we've had enough of this. We just want to go home. Fun's over. And they just completely underestimate who they're talking to. They just didn't realise.
Bless them. And Chris often play characters that die. Poor chap. For everything Chris does, he's an incredibly gifted voice actor as well. Yeah. You know, he does, what can't that man do? But he often dies, doesn't he? Poor chap. Yeah. Or plays villains. Always plays villains. Often gets smoked. So, yeah. We're very lucky to have Chris in that.
Yes. Hey! Do you have any idea how stupid you're being? Clearly not, Iz. There's no point talking to them. No harm asking, Varian. This is crazy. Hey! We're a bit confused. Did you want to die today? We're just doing our jobs here You kids have got as far as you're going to get Oh, we're a long way from giving up Keep them talking Look, you've got two options One, you come quietly
Or two, we trunk you and drag you out of here. Did you know we were down here? Yes. Which means every other agent knows too. Great. Did you come down here on your own? What did Tristan tell you about us? He told us enough. I seriously doubt that. If he had, there's no way you'd be here talking to us right now. And where would we be? Up top. A safe distance away. Planning your long lives. Where's Ren?
Hunting. Kids, this has gone far enough. Come back now before you get into any more trouble. You don't even know what trouble looks like. Do you have any idea what us agents go through in training? And in the field? A fair idea, yes. Well, take how bad you think it is and times it by ten. Are they serious? I think so. It sounds tough. Really tough. Tell us more. Yeah.
We'd love to hear about how you signed up for it, how you chose this job. I'm curious about the part where you could have walked away, but didn't. Yeah, we'd love to have had that chance. Look, it's always more complicated than you think, kids. Nice! So while we've got you here, why did you go for the job? The health care is good. Shut up. And the education on Dex Island is great. I have kids. Congratulations. Thanks. Shut up, would you? Look, we don't expect your sympathy.
But we've been looking for you non-stop for two days. We haven't slept, we've barely eaten, we're tired and we just want to go home. Good. Go home then. They can't, Varian. Their boss will kill them for desertion. This isn't a game, kids. Oh, no. We're deadly serious. Trust me. Good one. Any last words? What makes you think we need them? Can you count to three? Yes. And how many of us have you been talking to all this time? Um, um, look, I'm not so sure about this. We can't even see them.
Red? We good? Yep. All clear. It's a shame. I was starting to like them. One of my favorite moments from Chris that people will never hear. is or they might if we do an outtakes reel is when he's shouting as Nathaniel and really like shouting in the room and He ends up saying, he's shouting and shouting and then the scene comes to an end and then he goes, oh, I scared myself then.
We have it on recording and it's just such a wonderful snap back to himself. And yeah, I actually, I have to say, I love that scene because it's actually a homage to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. they're in uh in hitchhikers they're being shot at and then they have this conversation with this police these policemen
who are saying, you know, well, it's not easy being in our job, you know, and everything. And so it's a bit of a homage to that. And it was a bit of a homage to one of the Romans done for us, you know, sort of like, well, what's good about Dex Island? Well, the education is great. And as Chris knows, I'm a huge fan of that stuff. It was just, it was so wonderfully placed and executed.
But yeah, I think what makes it my favourite is, like I say, the placement of it that we were, it was amping up to the end of the season. So obviously everything was firing on all cylinders, but we still had time to have a little giggle. I just thought it was knitted in wonderfully. Oh, that's good to know. Because I have actual questions about that. Like, was it too much of a juxtaposition? Was it too much of a departure? But I'm so glad I kept it in now.
You know, people watch stuff all the time and it's always nice to have moments of both light and shade because I think they do... you know the the listening experience and also you you can't possibly sit and listen to a full episode of just do you know what i mean like as exciting as it is it is tiring sometimes and you it's it's
it's a really useful tool to bring that light and shade to give them time to breathe because otherwise you if you focused on all the dark stuff that you write you just have your hold your breath but 25 minutes to 25 30 minutes of an episode on the way to work then you get to work and you're up do you know what i mean
Yeah, exactly. Then you've got to do a full day of work after listening to what you did. You don't know, man. You weren't there. Photocopier at night, still. I think you need that. That was a good start. Yeah. Maybe you need to do a poll on the social media and see if people agree. But for me personally, I would say it's very pleasant to have a break sometimes.
I have to say, though, I mean, like one of my main gripes when it comes to people writing post-apocalyptic stuff is that there's never any humour. Like some shows just lack humour. And when you think that in the trenches. During World War I and World War II, there were publications, humorous publications going through the trenches where people were making very off-color jokes, but jokes that resonated and made each other laugh in the ridiculous situation.
they were in and the horrific situation they were in people find space to laugh because it's what keeps us going you know love and laughter even in the darkest situations even in the most you know and and a lot of stuff i think when it's
portraying something serious tries to keep the comedy out and you know recognizing the farcical nature of what's happening in a moment when yeah it's like what what is going on here like do they not know the stakes do they have absolutely no idea like this is this is ridiculous I think it's, you know, it's human. It's more realistic to have those moments. Life is non-stop fast. You get on the train and you wouldn't believe the characters you meet in real life. Like, it's just ridiculous.
yeah these things happen so I think you're right that you know art imitates life and it is life is funny like and if you don't look like light in the darkness you'll just you'll just drown yeah god isn't that a nice note i think i've got to get a train later i'm gonna be stood like packed in like a little sardine yeah And then you're there and it's like something happens, but you're all just like not looking at each other. It's the sort of like the polite.
sort of a version of eyes, you know, and everything, even though you're basically staring into someone's armpit or I am because I'm petite and, you know, or I'm, yeah, or I'm a boob level with somebody. And it's like, I'm just, and then I realized I'm staring at someone's crutch and there's literally nowhere I can look, you know, like.
You've got to wear sunglasses on the train. It's the only way. Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. Except then you look like one of those people who wears sunglasses inside. Yeah, but maybe that is better, actually, just being one of those people. Yeah. So, I mean, I was going to talk about the fact that you do amazing stage work and, you know, I've seen you in West End shows and comedies, always comedies.
That is always very different to Dex. And I was going to say, I mean, first off, is voice acting very different as a process to stage acting in terms of adopting character, you know, et cetera. I mean, apart from the fact that you're in a booth and you're not like occupying a stage visually.
in terms of like in your head. Yeah, I mean, I think every actor will do it differently. I think I approach it the same. I mean, I graduated in, oh gosh, 2016 with... you know a list of things and techniques and stuff like a long list that I learned at drama school and I sort of cherry picked the ones that I used and what I find useful so I have my little they call it the toolbox
things that you rely on yeah so for me I approach every character the same because that's my how I find it most useful I think the main difference is it's it's similar in many ways like the ensemble of a project the the group energy and you know all aiming for the same the same outcome is always there but when you do stage work you know you're there physically working something and energy is important because you're doing it live
and you've got an audience that you can't drop the ball because they're all there with you so yeah that goes wrong for example it's it's a runaway train once you're on you're on And the audience are fully there with you. If you drop the energy once, you have to work really hard to lift it back up. Obviously, with most fasts, it's always going up until you reach that climax at the end where everything goes nuts.
Yeah. And in many ways, it's the same with audio as well. And I think with decks being in the room, like we said, was so useful because you're working towards that. with decks you record we record out of um out of sync so with a play obviously the current goes up you do act one you do act two you get to the end and it's all you know it happens in order We record, you know, interlude five before we've done the episode one. So it's about tying that together.
We got lucky because the actors that are involved in Dex believe in Dex and enjoy the story and the characters themselves, so they always know. Like Cam, for instance, like Blur Boy, loves it, does the work and knows exactly what we're aiming for.
so the ensemble is super tight so um the differences between a purely technical like in the booth you have all you have is the microphone and you you need to be technically aware with like volume lots of high octane scenes index with you know raising your voice or shouting on a battlefield so you need to be technically aware that you can't be right on the microphone and things like that which is obviously different it's just that
We've got a barn full of people. Yes, I think they're the only difference is really is technique for me. Thank you. Thank you so much. for joining me today and giving us all this insight and yeah for me as a writer it's so interesting so yeah thank you very much thank you very much send me season three This episode is part of our Season 3 Kickstarter campaign. If you enjoyed The Dex Legacy, please back our campaign by going to kickstarter.com and searching for The Dex Legacy.
or following the link in the show notes. Thanks to Charlie Richards, who plays Wren in The Deck's Legacy, for taking part in this interview. Charlie was in conversation with The Dex Legacy writer and creator, Emily Inkpen. If you'd like to back our Kickstarter campaign, please go to kickstarter.com and search The Dex Legacy.
or follow the link in our show notes. We have until October the 17th to reach our goal, and we really can't make season three without your help. So if you'd like to hear more, please back us. Next up in this interview series, Emily will be chatting to Ray Whitty, who plays Pax. The Fable and Folly Network, where fiction producers flourish. Hey, we're the looters. Hey, what's up?
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