How to Gain Traction in a Competitive ID Market

[00:00:00] Scott: All right. So my name is Scott Schmidt. I am one of the bootcamp pros on Devlin's team. And I actually made the transition to instructional design about a year and a half ago. I went through Devlin's bootcamp and I landed a role myself just a few months after I finished. So that was exciting.

[00:00:18] And now I'm working on Devlin's team. And I had the pleasure of working with Isabella when she was going through the bootcamp. That's, she may share a little bit about that in the interview today too, but I'm going to pass it over to you, Isabella, if you would maybe just share a little bit about yourself as an introduction.

[00:00:37] Isabella: Yeah. So thank you, Scott. Hi everyone. I'm Isabella Hashimoto. So I'm an instructional designer now with a master's degree in teaching and over a decade of experience as an educator. In the beginning of my career, I was really just like a high school English educator, really focusing on the students that were coming in and out of my classes.

[00:00:58] And honestly, that didn't really [00:01:00] change until in one of my positions, like a really seasoned educator who had like over a decade more experience than me, asked me about like how I was able to get my ninth graders, ninth grade, I taught ninth grade for a long time how to get my ninth graders, just like actually.

[00:01:20] in a whole class discussion and actually like doing it and getting all into it and all that anyway. So I was like the most junior educator there and I was always really nervous to share about my ideas but it turns out all I needed was that boost of confidence or someone seeing my skills and because I had a lot of ideas about how to update our curriculum to make it more learner centered, really.

[00:01:45] And yeah, just opening up that discussion to help us all get better. From there my ability and my confidence to just be a school leader just grew. And by the end of my my tenure there, I was planning and managing [00:02:00] Projects across teams affecting over a hundred learners annually. And I even had the chance to design a workshop for my colleagues with, in partnership with PBS, great organization.

[00:02:12] And then now in my most recent role at Seattle Public Schools. I'm the multilingual learner department lead for my building. So in addition to the teaching part of it, I'm also designing and delivering like train the trainer events for my colleagues in the building and through the district, and I've also had the position of teacher leader, which is the official title where I've developed onboarding stuff, like orientations for the incoming people like new colleagues coming into the building and really focusing on mission and values.

[00:02:43] Yeah, and almost three years there now, I've, grown and led a team that is really supportive of my choice to take the next step in my career path. And, I've been very open about instructional design is where I'm going because I've had the time to really reflect [00:03:00] on what it is that I want to do next and what I really enjoy doing.

[00:03:04] And I've discovered that it's designing trainings and workshops, it's mentoring new. folks, educators, and I've done that. And now developing eLearning is something that I've just added to the toolbox of my, ability to convey messages, or like to teach people. So that's really what I'm looking for in my next role.

[00:03:28] Scott: Fantastic. Thank you for the introduction, Isabella. And I want to remind everybody that one of the big reasons we invited Isabella to join us is she has had experienced some really great success landing interviews in a shorter period of time. And we know that that's a big worry point for a lot of people transitioning.

[00:03:51] "How am I going to go about applying and enter and getting interviews?" So it's why it's one of the big reasons we invited Isabella, not only because she has proven to [00:04:00] be an outstanding instructional designer, but she can share some possibly some tips and some ideas for you folks who may be looking to apply soon or are in that process right now. All right. Isabella, are you ready? Should we get down to it? 

[00:04:14] Isabella: Yes, and I wanted to do a little plug if it wasn't clear that first little part like is definitely a snippet of what I bring to an interview as that tell us about yourself, walk us through your resume" and all that so just a sneak peek into that.

[00:04:29] Scott: Yeah, it was fantastic. They've already gotten some tips and we haven't even started the interview yet. Always thinking. All right, fantastic. Okay, so Isabella, my first question for you is this. Let's start from the beginning here. So before you transitioned to instructional design, I know you mentioned what you were doing Seattle Public Schools and some teacher leader stuff.

[00:04:53] If you want to expand a little bit on that more, you certainly can, but I'm, how are, can you explain a little bit more of how you, how are you [00:05:00] feeling during that, during that time and that led up to the transition? 

[00:05:05] Isabella: No, that's a really good question. I I have to say I was feeling.

[00:05:10] Tired. I was feeling pretty tired because I was doing both, right? I was designing the professional development, designing those workshops, facilitating those workshops in person and through this webinar situation and also in the classroom all day with students. Like to half joke that the prize for a good job in public education is that...

[00:05:35] you get more work. So that is where I started getting really tired and I still honestly truly love being in the classroom with my high school students. It's a lot of fun But yeah, I really just wanted to I can take that next leap, take that leap, and I recently, like literally a week ago, recently decided to take a career break [00:06:00] to reflect on what I want to do and what this is obviously is instructional design.

[00:06:04] I've been in the bootcamp since. last fall. But yeah, I'm, I want to focus more on the adult learning side of things because I really enjoyed that in the last few years that I've been working and, doing the workshops and designing professional development and now learning the fun of eLearning, honestly, like Storyline.

[00:06:25] What a gem. It's a good time. I'm just excited. I'm feeling excited now as opposed to tired. So that's always a win. 

[00:06:35] Scott: Absolutely. That's the way it was for me too. I was really burnt out and I got really excited when I started doing the transition. I know you mentioned that, you were really looking to maybe get more into adult learning.

[00:06:45] And you got excited about learning how to do eLearning development. I'm wondering if there was anything else that intrigued you about instructional design that made you choose that as the thing, as the area you wanted to go into after teaching. [00:07:00]

[00:07:00] Isabella: That is such a good question because actually in conversation with someone that's in here, I want to name names like we both actually discovered instructional design

[00:07:10] in like 2020, 2021. Obviously I stayed in the classroom, but anywho... I found it as like... just googling, "what is a job after teaching?" And I saw that and I also unfortunately... It's okay... I saw project management also and so I chose to take a class in project management I'm like, "oh this instructional design thing.

[00:07:30] It's a little too close to teaching or something." I don't know whatever I thought in 2020, 2021 And I heavily disliked, I think it was like to get ready for the certification course, the PMP. And I was like, "no, this isn't it. This isn't it." So I went back into the classroom, which is great actually now in hindsight, that's when I got a lot of the big leadership stuff of designing professional development, all that.

[00:07:54] Anywho ,so why Instructional Design now? Why I picked it up again is because I [00:08:00] really see it now that I've actually had the time to look at it, read some great books, throw some books in there at the end there. We've all read them. Anyway really see Instructional Design now as not just creating courses, like I thought that in the beginning, but now it's really like someone who collaborates across teams to solve big organizational problems and really just exploring different training solutions and seeing what fits.

[00:08:27] Like, I like that part of it and that's what's really keeping me going and definitely focused my job search a lot more as well. Like finding the ones that's pretty much speak to that a little bit more than others. And other postings.

[00:08:46] Scott: All right. Fantastic. We now know where you were at. We know what intrigued you about moving into ID. So now give us a little bit of a rundown of your timeline when you decided this is what I'm going [00:09:00] to do from that point till now, tell us just a little bit about what that process looked like and how you felt about that during the, during that journey.

[00:09:09] Isabella: Yeah that's a good one. I decided maybe like last October. So I, again, I did the Google of "what job after teaching?" And yeah, that's when ID popped up again. And I was like, "you know what? I think like Coursera was having a sale or something." I'm like, "I'll just take one intro course to see

[00:09:30] what this is all about." And that's when I really did learn about like the whole, like ID as problem solver. And that got me, that really got me as someone who likes to do that, of course. So I then. "What's just going on YouTube videos of what is instructional design?" There's a lot of content out there.

[00:09:49] And I realized quickly that for my brain, there was too much content. Like I would just have my energy would have gone everywhere and just [00:10:00] not focused very much. So that's when I... I'm certain it was through a YouTube video that I found Devlin, I'm sure... of course it was that I found Devlin's content, and I then saw that there was a bootcamp. So I was like, "okay," so it wasn't, what was it, November? It was last November, I know it was Veterans Day weekend, because as a public educator. I've got to memorize every single three day weekend, every snippet of extra time.

[00:10:25] Anyway, that's when I started the bootcamp. So, I don't remember when I applied for it. Maybe it was just a couple weeks beforehand because I knew that I needed structure. I needed a checklist as someone who I don't know, organization is my love language. I just needed it. 

[00:10:41] Scott: You bet. Thank you for being a part of it too.

[00:10:43] We've all, we've definitely enjoyed working with you these last few months. Okay, this, let's get now to the part where I'm sure this is what was advertised for this event. Let's talk interviewing so that people can learn from your experience because you've had some good experience [00:11:00] getting, landing some interviews.

[00:11:01] So the first thing I just want to ask is, What do you think has helped you get, land interviews in such a short amount of time? What things do you, what things do you feel like you did, actions that you took? There is definitely certainly a bit of luck, obviously, and they're involved, but there's a lot of things that you can actively do to land those interviews.

[00:11:23] So I'm curious, what do you think it is for you that you did that you think helped you land so many interviews in such a short amount of time? 

[00:11:31] Isabella: Yeah, I... you just said it already. It's the things that you can control. And because everything else, the luck involved, who knows what's happening outside, but you can only, I can only control really my portfolio. I can control my resume and I can control, I don't know, who sees them, and deciding like who I want to approach with that. So that's [00:12:00] definitely been a part of it. I think I spoke to a little bit earlier too about, and this has only been in the last couple of weeks, honestly, like pinpointing what is it about instructional design that I do really enjoy.

[00:12:12] I enjoy like the breadth of training solutions, and like the learning solutions that you can do and not just one thing, not just the workshops or, facilitations that like, that's great. It's not just even eLearning. Because like, that's also a great part. I looking for something that is on that, like instructional design, learning experience, designer, avenue, path, meh, whatever word we're going with.

[00:12:39] And so just pinpointing that as well that I'm not just throwing my throwing my resume everywhere, which like, no shame in that either. To be honest, I was doing that earlier and I was taking phone interviews for positions that I don't know, didn't exactly want necessarily but it was all practice.

[00:12:59] So I [00:13:00] just see it as that, like that's something I can control too: my time. Like I say yes to phone interviews for places that again, I'm like, "I don't, I'm not a hundred percent sure what you do, but I will talk to you because it is practice about how to talk about myself and my experiences." so that's it.

[00:13:20] Yeah. Like really owning what you can control. There's definitely been a recruiter or two who I've talked about my portfolio. So that's been nice. Just how, like easy it is to navigate and like really clear was those are the two things that I would say were highlights that I can recall 

[00:13:44] Scott: Fantastic.

[00:13:45] You just gave me a great segue into the next question because you talked about your portfolio, which is always a key part of The application and even the interview process, because many hiring managers are going to look at your [00:14:00] portfolio and possibly bring some of that stuff up in the interview.

[00:14:03] So my question for you is, are you noticing hiring managers bringing up specific things about your portfolio? Or also in addition to just the portfolio, things about your experience, the flagship project that you created. Are you noticing any trends of things that hiring managers are bringing up in those interviews?

[00:14:24] Isabella: Yeah I would say definitely what I was saying earlier about because recruiters are usually the first line right to see if you're gonna be someone that they want to bring into a next round or something and they definitely see that and I think again making it easy to navigate clear understandable for a recruiter's perspective who might not necessarily have experience in the ID world in learning and learning experience and all that stuff.

[00:14:52] Just making it something that is accessible in that way is really important. I would say as far as what hiring [00:15:00] managers do ask when you get into the second round, third round, fourth round, even definitely that question of walking through that design process. Especially for eLearning, of course. Like using that flagship project as my guide, the write up really as my guide for it, because that was so detailed in its way of really outlining how did I come up with it? What did I do? What were the actionable steps? What did I learn? And all of that. Definitely the flagship project being there as, and having the longest write up and reasoning behind it has definitely come up.

[00:15:38] Scott: All right. Fantastic. So my next question, I'm gonna, I'm going to tie this back into your bootcamp experience now too. Which I'm very familiar with your bootcamp experience cause I worked so closely with you and it was so fantastic. But if you would do you, can you pinpoint any specific skills or [00:16:00] lessons that you learned from the bootcamp that you're noticing are coming up in interviews that helped, that really helped prepare you for those interviews?

[00:16:09] Isabella: Yeah, definitely. So in addition to "walk us through your design process", because that will come up for sure. Especially if you're applying to positions that eLearning is a big focus yes. Talk about your flagship project all day. Not really, but bring it up. The next one that has definitely come up as well is like, "how do I collaborate with others?" How have I I have the iterative process and that's come up in, in interviews and I can speak to that honestly about, in, in this case the journey through the bootcamp, right?

[00:16:44] So like working with you, Scott, working with Sabrina, I've definitely asked questions for her too and working with like my peers in the bootcamp as well, right? I will say specifically, I had a very cool interview where they put up a storyline project. They share their screen [00:17:00] and we went slide by slide about what feedback I would suggest.

[00:17:03] So quite literally, exactly like what the bootcamp workshops are like. And I didn't tell you, but I definitely said the word "padding" twice. I was like, Oh yeah. So again, just that's really specific stuff that I learned in the bootcamp that, have come up in interviews for sure.

[00:17:27] Scott: Fantastic. All right. Let's shift gears just a little bit here. Because I've already noticed in the chat, a lot of people sharing their LinkedIn profiles for people to connect and everything like that. So I'm wondering as has, how has networking, especially through LinkedIn, which is a big, easy way for people to do that.

[00:17:47] How has that helped you? In securing interviews, would you say? 

[00:17:53] Isabella: As far as securing interviews, I've definitely done the apply to a place and then [00:18:00] find the recruiter for it and send them a message. Sometimes I don't hear back necessarily from the recruiter, but then I'll get like a, "Oh, you are being scheduled for a phone..."

[00:18:11] I'm like, "Oh, okay!" So someone has read it potentially. That's definitely been part of it. I'd say. that what's helped on LinkedIn is getting that like supportive community when I'm in the interview process. So for instance, like I have an interview tomorrow, actually, that I have to do a little bit of a presentation facilitate a presentation.

[00:18:38] No. What is it? Yeah. Facilitate, facilitate like a leadership skill, micro training. That's what they call it. Micro training. And I've like through networking on LinkedIn found people who are in the L&D space and ID space who have been like willing to mentor me also. Like it's just so nice. And I've dropped the presentation [00:19:00] in there.

[00:19:00] I was like, there's any notes you have or, whatnot, and maybe even listen to me go over it. So anywho, like that's been really great when it comes to the networking as well because I'm, again, like it's that big thing of what you can control. I can control that. I can control who I'm contacting and how I approach them and it's not necessarily "hi, do you have a job for me?"

[00:19:23] Because that's just not how I operate, personally. But it's a real back and forth like, relationship where I'm giving like, I'm asking for help. They might ask me every once in a while for what have you done for something like this? But yeah, I think that's been nice.

[00:19:43] I have to say as someone who like has no real other social media than LinkedIn, it can be a little overwhelming, but you get it. You can control that or I'm trying, this is me talking to myself. You can control that. You can step away if you need to. 

[00:19:58] Scott: Yeah, it was a big leap for me. I remember [00:20:00] to dive into the LinkedIn world.

[00:20:01] But that, that, yeah, you're right. The connections you can make can be invaluable for a variety of reasons, all right. I have two final questions for you before we hand it over to a Q and A session with the people here. So folks, if you still have questions, feel free to, to continue to add those.

[00:20:21] We're going to get to that here in just a few minutes. I have two final questions for you. My first one is, can you share any, Highlights or stories from your interviews. You've had so many in such a short amount of time and probably they've varied quite a bit. I'm wondering if there's things you can, I see what you're doing there.

[00:20:42] I'm sure we're always curious, how did that interview go? What are you noticing, is happening? So if you have any stories, even what questions show up the most. What have been the most difficult questions? Anything like that. Just really let us be flies on the wall in your interview process that you've [00:21:00] had so far.

[00:21:01] Oh, 

[00:21:01] Isabella: no, that's, that is good. I thought I had something. Any, yes, I've had a lot of different kinds of interviews for sure. I've already spoken about the biggest highlight of the one that was just like, they shared a screen and that was great. "Oh, that's not accessible. And that wouldn't have passed the WCAG," anyway.

[00:21:20] So that was cool. There was one interview where they gave me all the questions the day before. And I was like, and that actually, personally, I don't think it turned out as well as I thought it was going to, because it felt so not conversational. And I think that's definitely a big one where a lot of interviewers will say at the beginning "we just want this to be a conversation."

[00:21:43] And more often than not, they do just want it to be a conversation. So just go with it is what I tell myself. Questions about accessibility have definitely come up a lot. So when I was talking about that, like how to make the slides what feedback would I give? So [00:22:00] accessibility is huge.

[00:22:01] So make sure that making sure that was something that I brushed up on and learned about definitely watch the YouTube video or two and, just found other websites that help you test accessibility, et cetera. Let's see. What's another question that comes up a lot. So I talked about the collaboration one.

[00:22:23] Oh, one that was, is really nice. And I think it's because we're in this field of learning and training and development is like, how have I continued my learning. So I think this bootcamp definitely like slides right into that as yeah, I was doing this for years and now I'm moving into something else.

[00:22:44] Like that's always nice and it's like a tangible thing that I can talk about. And because of all this, likeLearning that I've done, this portfolio came out, and so I can, talk about that as well. Let's see what's in there. Oh, and another one is building. Relationships between [00:23:00] teams or like subject matter experts that comes up a lot as well.

[00:23:03] I think it depends on the organization, what they say, but yeah, subject matter expert cross functional teams. Yeah, another, I'm sure there's another way that it's said to but like, how do you work with those folks and streamline content and streamline the Learning? Yes, that's good. 

[00:23:25] Scott: That's great that you're giving us some of that jargon, too, that you come across.

[00:23:30] That's very helpful, too. Because somebody, if they got into an interview and was like, cross functional teams, what the heck does that mean? No, Isabella just helped you out there, so definitely appreciate that. All right, one final question before the Q&A to wrap up everything. This is where you really get to share some real nuggets of wisdom with everybody.

[00:23:53] So now that you've had so much interviewing experience, what tips would you give everybody [00:24:00] here? Who may be going through that process in the future, or maybe already is in that process. What do you think is the best pieces of advice that you would give them? 

[00:24:09] Isabella: Yeah. A lot of this is advice that I've received and like worked in and made work for me.

[00:24:15] So I think definitely pinpointing. like the seven, the eight, I mean I'm just making up numbers really, like skills and experiences that you want to highlight, that you've done already, and honestly that's, those are the things that you want to make sure make it into the interviews. So each of those skills can become its own story, the STAR method, you can STAR method each one of those, and then I've I was gonna say I've mentally tagged, no I've written them all on Google Docs, and they're all tagged, about what are the different, topics they could cover.

[00:24:51] So for instance, for example, like I have a train the trainer event that I did, it was a professional development, even that just calling it a train the trainer event. I've had to like train [00:25:00] my brain to say that. And I can use that story for my initiative and like my bias towards action, adult learning, trainer led learning experience, measuring effectiveness, like any of those questions come up, I can talk about that one story.

[00:25:15] So again, like really pinpointing, what is it that I want to bring in? To the interview and then how can I display it as opposed to going the opposite way, which is like looking at a bunch of interview questions and then answering them specifically. I like the idea of going from, again, what you can control, what you can bring to the

[00:25:37] to the table. And that goes also with like, when you pinpoint those when I've pinpointed the skills and experiences that I want to highlight and that I want to lean into. Again, that's like the jobs that I'm going to be looking for more often than not. Yeah. like putting in more effort on those job applications, like the tweaking of the resume, which I haven't even talked about that.

[00:25:58] Sorry. Tweaking the resume [00:26:00] for the jobs that I'm like more interested in, to be honest, and being like, okay, there we go. I put in the time. I took some of the words from the job description and tweaked them to, to fit into my resume. So for instance, like my resume has subject matter experts in it.

[00:26:16] Didn't have anything that said that in the job description, but it said cross functional teams. I'll just like reword it, get a little bit so that it goes into my resume that I'm submitting. Another one is definitely like the mindset shift of just the interview is not there for you to like, for me to convince the hiring panel that one, I'm an instructional designer and that to like, I'm the best one for this

[00:26:42] job or whatever other way to do it because that like actually made me really nervous. And the advice that I've received is you just need to show up as your own professional confident self, you bring in your own stories, you get to talk about your experience. [00:27:00] And if that's what they're looking for, And there we go.

[00:27:05] And it's honestly like a hiring panel, a hiring manager would not be inviting you to an interview if they didn't think you could do it. So they're not going to spend time. So that's something I have had to learn. I was definitely like battling a lot of imposter syndrome at the very beginning, getting those phone screenings and stuff.

[00:27:22] So yeah. And then, Oh, I'm sorry. The last one is, I have the questions at the end. If you have any questions for us, I always ask "what does success look like for this role?" You can even give a time constraint, like 30, 60, 90 days. And then I like write it down while I'm listening. And if there's anything that comes up that I have experienced with, I'll be like, yeah thank you for sharing.

[00:27:49] Like I've actually, in my experience, I've built onboarding for new, and then I can talk a little bit more about my experiences and, bring value. To them, to [00:28:00] organization in a real way. Yes. 

[00:28:07] Scott: No, that's great. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing those tidbits as somebody who's gone through it very recently.

[00:28:15] You bring a lot of credibility to this area and can really shed some light on that. I'll just expand on one thing. I typically go into interviews exactly the way that you just described. I'm like, "this is me. This is who I am." If I try to put on a show, it's going to come off as ingenuine. And you put it so perfectly:

[00:28:37] "if I'm who they're looking for, then they'll hire me. If they, if I'm not, it's not because I'm not good. I'm not qualified. It may just be that somebody else was a better fit for whatever reason." But I really liked that you said, You just got to be your authentic self, basically, because if you're, if you don't, it's probably gonna, it's probably going to show.

[00:28:59] Isabella: I know. And then [00:29:00] potentially, what if you get that job and you're like, that's not me at all, actually, you just hired a fake me or on the flip side too, like you don't get the position and you didn't even bring your own self, like you never know what would happen. So if you were your genuine self, that's so just a mindset shift that I've had to make, definitely.

[00:29:22] Scott: Absolutely. All right. Again, thank you so much for that. We're going to get to some questions now, Isabella. So we're going to start off. Krissy asked a question that was, how would somebody go about translating their educational skills to ID skills during an interview? How do you make that? I'm sure we got a lot of teachers here.

[00:29:44] And so that's one of the biggest things is, wait, how do I make it sound like I'm not a teacher and I'm instructional designer? What would you say? 

[00:29:50] Isabella: Yeah, that's a great question. I have to say like in my, what is it, the tell us about yourself question at the very [00:30:00] beginning, like I, I'll own it. They've seen my resume, like they know that I've been a teacher.

[00:30:05] So I think just addressing it right then in the beginning as if, I was gonna say as if it's, yeah, it's nothing to hide, right? "yeah, I've been an educator for over a decade and da." so addressing it for sure. because yeah, it made me feel more comfortable for sure. And then definitely picking and choosing.

[00:30:24] Sorry, I'm looking at my, these are the notes that I have. Bringing in notes is really helpful too, to be honest. Having notes because like Scott, you were saying earlier too, I want to make sure that I'm saying the things right for instance, I talk about a big project that I had with over "100 learners," so "learners" not "students," which, yeah, it's a little bit of a tweak, right? "Learners"... "annually."

[00:30:50] Which is another like corporate speak of just one little tip. I learned very recently that I would say "project milestones" instead of project like "checkpoints" is [00:31:00] just what I was using as a teacher. But like "milestones", ah, okay. So definitely, The jargon is, I don't want to say it's like it's huge, but it's, it helps to feel more comfortable using it and even just the skills in general, like knowing that, we've, as educators, crafted learning objectives.

[00:31:25] We've done backwards design too, like that's something that I've talked about a lot that receives like, 

[00:31:31] Because it's exactly the same as what learning and development with instructional designers are doing, at least the ones that I've talked to. Yeah, yeah, I don't know if that helps at all, but just owning the fact that your skills are transferable.

[00:31:48] And then I think there's a Is there a document through the bootcamp that there is like a glossary of ID terms? Is there? I [00:32:00] swear there is one. Maybe it was just floating around in the community, but I'll look for it. I'll look for it and I'll post it in the community because I know I have one. I know I've seen it.

[00:32:08] Yeah, so I think that's huge. 

[00:32:12] Scott: Yeah, I really appreciate that you let people know that, if you are a teacher. You already have transferable skills. You do. Even if you don't feel like you do. Just because you work with students, young youth, and not adults, doesn't mean some of that doesn't translate.

[00:32:30] Definitely. Very good. Thank you. Very, I'm really glad you touched on that because hopefully that's going to make some of the teachers here Maybe feel a little bit more confident about their transition. Yeah. All right. Okay. EJ asks, I'm wondering if you'd like to talk a bit about mental health as it relates to the transition to the ID world.

[00:32:49] It can be overwhelming at times. And I'm wondering if you could talk a bit about how you balance that and the job search itself. 

[00:32:58] Isabella: EJ. Hi. [00:33:00] EJ is a buddy I've met through the bootcamp. And we're actually like I want to say neighbors. We're like 40 minutes away from each other. And so we've talked about this a lot actually.

[00:33:12] And I'd say there are a couple of things that come to mind. Okay. So definitely building that support system outside of the ID world and even inside it as well, like I've talked a lot, I think about the folks that I connect with on LinkedIn, the folks I've connected with in the bootcamp itself as well.

[00:33:34] So just be there with you on the journey because no one, I don't say, no one understands it but us, but it's nice when you have someone who's going through the same process as you to talk about oh my gosh, this is like the sixth time I've had to do my prototype or something, and just having someone you be there to help you out through that.

[00:33:58] And now I'm talking about like [00:34:00] the transition to the ideal world of like applications and the interviewing and that whole process as well is like giving myself time to take breaks also and go outside. I could just be in this room on the computer like writing and rewriting and revamping and redoing like my portfolio, my LinkedIn posts, like I could tweak that forever.

[00:34:29] But just like giving myself the grace to take a break every once in a while. I was gonna say a lot, but no, every once in a while, whatever, however often you need it giving yourself a break because like I've done that already. I've been really tired already. Like I want to keep going. That excitement going, the joy of it, the joy of theLearning and the discovering.

[00:34:56] So I think both of those things have definitely [00:35:00] helped keep my head straight. 

[00:35:04] Scott: Yeah, great. It's a really important question and thing to address because the job hunt process is a grind. And both physically and mentally, it really is physically draining to do that. Yeah, that's a, that was a great question.

[00:35:16] And definitely thanks to, you. Thank you for addressing that. Part of what makes the job hunt really really daunting is that there's, seems like there's just millions of applicants for every job, irina asked the numbers of applicants are really high right now. How do you stand out to land an interview?

[00:35:40] All right. And then for Isabella, for you in particular. I'm wondering if you've noticed any particular types of jobs that have high applicants or not as many. Which have you had better success with? So maybe a two part question there. So again, Isabella, how do you stand out to land an interview? And then what's been your [00:36:00] experience as you've been going to the job hunt in terms of what's given you most success?

[00:36:04] Have you had a success landing interviews with jobs with postings that have a lot of applicants or fewer? 

[00:36:11] Isabella: It's been a pretty mixed, to be honest. I'd say the things that, again things I can control with my resume, and more often the jobs where I take some time in the application and actually, again, look through that job description and look at my resume and see where I can just, input some of the words that are in the job description that I have experience with.

[00:36:40] It's not like making things up necessarily, like that's not it. It's just, "Oh, okay. I can tweak the wording of my resume to say that I've done like onboarding instead of orientation" or depending on whatever the job description says. I'd say too, let me see what else there. I have had [00:37:00] success in Both let me see, how am I going to answer?

[00:37:03] I personally want a hybrid job. Personally, I would like to go into the office, into an office, the office, into an office a couple of times a week, see people in real life. I have had some like success with those. I don't even say a little bit more because I've definitely gotten some for like fully remote jobs as well.

[00:37:25] But it's definitely, I would say, because of the fact that those are the jobs where I took the time. I know that LinkedIn has that easy apply button, and then there's a thousand people who applied. I'll do those, just cause, like, why not? I just click one button, and then, I've applied.

[00:37:41] I don't think it's a terrible thing. I don't know my success rate on it, though, I would say. I haven't really looked at that, but it was more of just a shot in the dark, let's see how it goes. But yeah I would say the ones, and I said it again and again, but like the ones that I actually took the time to read that job [00:38:00] description, see how it fits to my resume and apply from there.

[00:38:04] But definitely the fully remote jobs, I'd say once getting into the interview process, like I'm on, I was on like round three round. Yeah. That's a lot of rounds because you see the numbers, like they have a lot of people to want it. 

[00:38:21] Yeah, 

[00:38:22] it's, it is 

[00:38:23] a 

[00:38:23] lot. 

[00:38:24] Scott: It is. It definitely is. Let's stick some along, somewhat along those same lines.

[00:38:30] We got a lot of applicants, right? One of the things that, and we've talked about this before, we're going to come back to the portfolio a little bit here, Isabella. What that portfolio can really help in helping you maybe get past that first barrier and get a call for even a screener interview. So Colleen asks, What do you specifically do to make your portfolio clear and understandable for recruiters who may not have experience with [00:39:00] ID?

[00:39:00] Maybe you learned something in the bootcamp about that. I don't know. Maybe. If you want to share something about that's great too. 

[00:39:07] Isabella: I believe someone helped me with my write up and actually out or suggested to take out because you don't delete things suggested to take out some of the like really specific ID verbiage that was in there and honestly just made it a little bit clunky.

[00:39:24] So I'm sorry, I'm talking about the writeup specifically for my flagship portfolio my flagship project. Cause I was, this is the time I need to prove I know ID. So I was just like throwing in everything, right? All the. all the terms. But Scott, thank you for looking through that and really just parsing out like, okay, yeah, Kirkpatrick's gonna stay because, that's like a pretty general thing, but you don't need to get into every single detail of what you did.

[00:39:51] Just like a general overview. So that was for the writeup for sure. For the other projects in my portfolio, I did not [00:40:00] do like full writeups, like the flagship. I just tried to make it as simple as possible, like problem, solution, what I problem, solution, what I used that's it.

[00:40:11] So that it's something that's like easy to read over for a recruiter and even a hiring manager to really just see, Oh, okay. I see that now. Quick and easy to read is my whole idea behind that. And then as far as understandable as well just keeping the blurbs short, the ones about myself even in the very beginning, short and sweet That definitely I brought my website to the workshops a couple weeks because I was like, "I don't know, this web developer this is not my bag.

[00:40:40] What am I doing here?" And so that was a really great one to bring to the workshop because it just had more eyes to look at it and we all have looked at websites before. That was a really good way to, to get people's opinions and feedback. Oh, that button, maybe, just tweaking it up here and there for the user experience of it all.[00:41:00]

[00:41:02] Scott: Yeah, I definitely enjoyed seeing the evolution. Of your portfolio website because and everybody, we've still got the link on there. You, everybody can go check out Isabella's wonderful portfolio. But I will say, Isabella was very creative, even from the very beginning, but sometimes you got to really rein it in to keep it really focused because that hiring manager is not going to spend a lot of time there.

[00:41:29] And that's really mostly I remember. What we focused on and it really did turn out great and it was you know, all is it all of Isabella's Work there, I definitely gave you some suggestions, but you took it and ran with it and made a really standout portfolio. So it's very good. Everybody go check it out.

[00:41:47] It's really awesome. All right, we're going to end with one final question. All right. I think this is a good one too. So Maria asks, How do you deal with questions about specific situations if you [00:42:00] haven't ever encountered them before? Are you supposed to just make up something or what do you do?

[00:42:05] Isabella: Oh, what a good question. So I will show you because for instance, like I'll give you an example right now and that's what it is. Like you give an example of a thing that I have I've gotten questions about specific LMSs, have you used Bridge LMS or I don't even know if that's the name of it.

[00:42:27] Let's just say it's that. And I will say you know what? I actually haven't used that LMS before. I do have experience with the LMS and, I've actually even designed onboarding experiences for new folks in new colleagues. to get acquainted with it and, make it accessible for everyone.

[00:42:49] But yeah, I, again, don't have experience with that LMS. I, with the Bridge LMS, I have learned many other stuff. Like you can work it in a way, if [00:43:00] that makes sense. Because yeah, you gotta be honest. And at the same time, something else that can, be tagged in that way. If that, I don't know if that helps at all.

[00:43:12] I'm trying to think of one, another kind of question where I don't necessarily have experience in that, but you go, Oh, I know, I got one about customer service. Yeah, what was the last, yeah, what is your experience with customer service? And I said that, in high school, I worked at a restaurant in college.

[00:43:31] I worked at a grocery store. Absolutely. The skills that I learned there, I brought into education with like my ability to multitask. And then I talked about multitasking. So that's, hopefully something that, that gives you an idea of just, like we have a lot of experience, a breadth of experience, and it's about.

[00:43:57] Bridging it to there, and that's, I [00:44:00] hope, helpful. Yeah. 

[00:44:04] Scott: No, Isabella, you're absolutely right. I think what I just took away from what you just said is you can, even if you don't have direct experience with that thing, you can say, but I do have this experience that's similar to show, I can do that if you'd like me to do that.

[00:44:24] So yeah, absolutely. Very helpful. All right. We are coming up at the end of the hour here. So we're going to start wrapping this up. So first of all, I want to thank all of you who joined us today. Thank you very much for being here. I hope you got some good information about the interview process from somebody who's been through it very recently.

[00:44:47] Of course, Isabella, thank you. I really enjoyed this, especially because you folks may not know this yet, but I had not actually really had a conversation with Isabel yet, even though I worked with her directly in the bootcamp, [00:45:00] this is our first time really interacting. So it's been a, it's been a delightful experience for me too.

[00:45:05] Isabella: We did great. 

[00:45:06] Scott: Yeah. Yeah. And then you've got a link to Isabella's portfolio. Definitely go find her on LinkedIn. I think it just popped up on the screen there for you. Yeah. Her LinkedIn is blowing up. She's putting a lot of great content out there, folks. Go look at it. Cause obviously I'm connected with Isabella.

[00:45:24] So I get these notifications. Isabella posted this. Isabella posted this and it's all great stuff. Definitely go check that out. I also want to announce that we are accepting applications starting today for the summer cohort of Devlin Peck's Bootcamp. So if you want to be like Isabella and you want to join the bootcamp and receive the highly personalized feedback and guidance on that transition process that can really help set you up for success.

[00:45:56] If you want to maybe look into that as well and take part [00:46:00] feel free to apply now. You will be taken after the event ends, you will be taken immediately to the bootcamp page where you can check that out and there will be an option to apply. I will say though that seats are limited.

[00:46:15] So you're going to want to get on that right away if you're interested. Sees will, our applications will be only open until May 31st. Okay. So just about a week from today. All right. And again, you'll be taken directly to that bootcamp page as soon as the event ends and you can learn more about it there. But otherwise keep working on that transition and stay tuned for more free content on the YouTube channel. Devlin's got a lot of great contributors now adding to the YouTube content. So check that out. And that can help you with your interview process as well. Once again, Isabella, thank you so much.

[00:46:53] so much for joining us. I will be really looking forward to hearing updates on your experience with your [00:47:00] interviews and the job hunt. So do you have any final words for the audience here? Honestly, just Did I just put you on the spot? 

[00:47:07] Isabella: I just do you, again, what you can control, what you can do, be.

[00:47:14] You, that's how we have to show up with these things. So thank you. Thanks, Scott. 

[00:47:20] Scott: Awesome. Great. Thank you, Isabella. And thank you again to everybody that joined us. So we'll go ahead and sign off for now. Thank you, everybody. Bye bye.