Welcome to the defender podcast, a resource to help mobilize and equip the body of Christ to manifest the gospel to orphans and vulnerable children. This podcast is a ministry of Lifeline Children Services, and I'm your host, Herbie Newell.
Hey there, folks. Welcome back to the Defender Podcast. Today is September 25, 2024. And today, I have the great privilege of being able to, to share with you an interview that I did with one of my dear, dear friends, Doctor. Casey Williams.
We sat down a few weeks ago at the Southern Baptist Convention and had an opportunity to be able to talk about life and ministry. And also about something that we both share a passion for which is international adoption but care for the fatherless. Casey and his wife Kate are an incredible example of following God's call and doing what it is that you've been called to do, in the place at the time that you've been called to do it. They've lived through seasons of adoption. They've been they participated in foster care and care for unaccompanied minors.
They have just a rich story of including care for the fatherless in what God has accomplished with them. And so today before we get there to that interview, we want to talk a little bit about international adoption. It's important to Casey. It's important to me. But it's also, something that we've seen incredible impact in the lives of vulnerable children as they come into loving families.
Currently, there are millions of kids around the world that are living in institutions or are in places where they're in need of a forever family. At Lifeline, we view adoption as part of a faith journey, just like our guests did today. And we want to listen to God's call as God calls us potentially to bring a child in to our home through international adoption. We're committed as Lifeline to walking alongside families. We want to be there to pray with you in the beginning.
We want to help you through informational meetings all the way to ongoing support and providing things that will help you in your parenting journey long after you've completed your adoption. We want you to consider the possibility of international adoption today, maybe even through Casey and Kate's story. But as you do so, if God begins to work in your heart and you wanna explore more, we want you to visit lifelinechild.org/adoption. That's the right place on our website or you can see our show notes. That's a great place for you to begin.
But we'd love to talk to you and love to help you explore whether it is that international adoption is the thing that God's calling you to and that God's calling your family to. Well, in today's interview, as I said, we're going to sit down with Doctor. Casey Williams. Casey became the pastor of North Trenum Baptist Church in Columbia, South Carolina in June of 2017. Casey's one of the best young preachers that I know.
He faithfully proclaims God's word week in and week out. And North Trenum is dedicated to equipping believers to make disciples and to being a church that empowers its people to engage the world through gospel missions. Casey and Kate have been married since 2,005 and God's blessed them with 4 amazing kids, Isla, Chandler, Kayden and Bear. The Williams family are devoted advocates for orphan care. And to this day, they consistently open their home to foster unaccompanied children and which demonstrates them putting their faith on the line every day and their belief in gospel ministry.
Casey got his bachelor's degree from William Carey College in religion. It's then at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary when he was pursuing a master of divinity that he and I met. And then he went on to pursue a doctorate in intercultural studies from Western Seminary. I hope you'll just sit back and enjoy the conversation that we had. We sort of tell it like it is about the good, the difficult and the incredible in God's plan for both of our families to adopt internationally.
I just love this guy and it was an incredible privilege to be able to sit down with him and I can't wait to share this conversation with you. So without further ado, let's get to the interview from the Southern Baptist Convention that I had with my buddy, Casey Williams.
All right, welcome back to the Lifeline booth. Record another episode of the Defender podcast and I have an opportunity to be able to sit down with my dear friend Doctor Casey Williams, pastor of the North Trimham Baptist Church in Columbia, South Carolina.
That's right, that's right. It's been a few, we've, I was telling some people on the Life Line team we've had a few miles behind us.
Bro, like I actually said I actually said that to somebody over here and I was like it's like many mile many miles have we gone.
It's humbling. It is. It's it's it's incredible to see the Lord's kindness though all these years and and continue just the the the fire, for this kind of work, you know, is, it doesn't sequelter. It it just continues to burn. New wood, we needed wood. No doubt. We need to refresh it.
No doubt.
Good fresh wind, but but
But it's but there is definitely you know, the Lord continues to to encourage us forward and continues to keep us in it.
As long as there's kids still in need and homes still open and the kingdom continue to advance, we have a job to do.
That's it. And then Well, we have we have known each other for a long, long time.
20 years.
Good night.
Crazy. Man. I had
I had
brown hair.
You were a lot younger when
we met. I had brown hair.
I had brown hair. I had,
2 really good knees. Oh, man. I was skinnier. I was,
you know,
I have none of those things now.
You know, I had I had mostly I had mostly brown hair.
You you were pretty gray back then. It was gray.
It was gray, but it wasn't nearly this gray. I looked
like Santa Claus. You do. I know. I speaking of, I need to have you go hang out with my kids. I need to bring Santa Claus to the kids to Columbia.
So Yeah. So That's good. So, man, you know, like, let's just let's just kinda start at the beginning. Yeah. Like where did, where did your heart for vulnerable kids come from?
Yeah. I think, some of it comes from my own family dynamic. My mom was adopted by her grandparents and bounced back and forth between her birth mother and her grandma. So really not even not even a child of the state but just of real brokenness.
Yep.
And, I think sensing and and then my dad my dad's dad, was killed in a tragic accident when he was 16. So he was oldest of 4 children. And so I think growing up in a household, with parents, who had to live through a lot of brokenness. Yep. And then of course being saved at the age of 16 and and getting to see it probably with a different spiritual vantage point.
Yeah.
It it really started to stir something in me, I think. And then I actually worked a summer camp. I was working in Possumneck, Mississippi doing a summer camp. And
You just made that up.
No. I did not. There's a real sun.
Where is Possum Neck?
I'm the side of Kosciusko.
Okay. I know where Kosciusko is.
Yeah. It's it's so when you talk about a suburb of Kosciusko, of Possum Neck, It's a it's
I'm going to Possumneck just
to get rid of
your facade.
I would not go without friends, or a gun. But in all seriousness I was working and, got asked to go run, one of our Baptist camps in the north part of the state around Southaven, in Mississippi at the time when I was in college. And the the boys home came Yeah. To the summer camp. And I just remember one of the one of the kids was like, can I just come home with you?
And, I think I was 19. Wow. 18, 19 years old. And I was trying to figure out how in the world can I get this kid in my dorm, you know? Mhmm. But I'll do it, you know, I'll figure it out. But knowing I couldn't, but that was really where the seed was planted I think. And then of course my wife Kate which you know is my better half. Absolutely. The much better half of the Williams family.
The Williams family gained a lot of credibility when Kate entered into it. But she actually worked with, for the YMCA when she was a teenager and she was working with a lot of the group homes. And, so she actually had a burden for it earlier than I did. And then when we, when we started to date and really got to the point of really considering marriage, it was, a no, no questions asked. If you're not for adoption, then we don't need to be in a relationship.
We both were already at the agreement before we even entered into a family. We had a plan that adoption was gonna be at the forefront of our family. Yeah.
And it was.
It was actually, yeah. We, so we, we were working at a little small country church and couldn't afford a family. We couldn't afford our own to raise our own family. And so the Lord opened the door for us to go to a church that would provide a little bit more resources. Yeah. And, at least the personal income side of it.
Yeah.
And, we were gonna adopt for the state because we'd said, you know, financially, the, you know, the state provides a little bit more resources available. It's more financially feasible for a young couple. And, and I had a friend, challenge me. You know David Nasser.
And
so he goes, K. C. Is God not big enough to help you adopt internationally? And of course my theology was like, Absolutely God's big enough. I'm not gonna put God in the Bronx, right?
And he was when he dropped he actually dropped the seed of what if God called you to adopt from Ukraine? And I was like, what if God calls me to die from Ukraine, right? My twenties full of faith and zeal but no wisdom or knowledge. And, we just we so we started to pray and really seek the Lord's counsel. Of course, you and Tony were kind of going through it.
Yeah. Right in the early stages, y'all weren't even in the adoption process. I think y'all were just starting it. So I had, you know, had some friends that started to float up in the balloons and those circles that I ran with. And we kind of came to a private decision that we felt, okay, Lord, if you opened up a Ukraine, but we hadn't told anybody.
And, that literally, the really the week almost a week of we came to that conclusion, we were sponsors for World Vision and World Vision released a packet to our home and it was a Ukraine Good. Focused one. And then I was hate
it when the Lord does that stuff.
Man, I was not happy with him at all. And then, again, nobody still not still not knowing. I was leading worship and, you know, a youth minister in Louisiana. And and, my drummer said, hey, this, my wife's going on this mission trip, and one of her friends dropped out. They're going to Lviv in in Ukraine. Would she wanna go? And at that point, y'all were in it. Yep. Here the Lord's dropping publications and invitations to us. Yep.
And we just trusted, okay, Lord. Maybe this is it. And of course you know the full story, but, it was crazy. And so the Lord just again affirmed, affirmed, affirmed, affirmed that this is what we're supposed to do.
And it's it's God does it different ways for different people. Like it's people have different kind of stories. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for us, it was very similar in in that we I mean, our joke is we, you know, we both went to public school in the eighties.
Yeah.
And so we couldn't find Ukraine on a map because it didn't exist. But, you know, but at the point that that we, you know, got began to, you know, begin to deal with us about Ukraine, I mean, we really didn't know much. Right. And we just kept bumping into that little Eastern European country everywhere we turned around for a long time and even, you know, even as dumb as we are there was a point where you began to go, oh well Either I'm disobedient Right, like oh I get it Lord, like you want me to pay attention to Ukraine? Yeah, yeah.
And you know and so and so you did and it was and it's a crazy story that probably ought to
make a book sometime. Maybe, I don't know. You know we've joked and said you know oftentimes that the the real stories of adoption, right? It's hard to believe though you know like we so we petitioned to adopt 15 years ago, actually right around this time, 15 years ago. And, and then of course, you know, our story, we found out we were pregnant afterwards.
Yep.
And, I remember when my wife told me about it, she was in tears because she was like, we're not gonna adopt. I said, no, baby. We're we're still called. Like, this situation doesn't change the calling on God of God on our lives.
So we
we've committed to this. We're gonna follow through with it. And so we had planned on, you know, maybe adopting a sibling set or whatever being open to it. And the Lord was like, nah. You will have siblings, just not exactly what you planned.
Right.
And, and then of course, 14 years ago going over there, entering into the process, and just a roller coaster of it. But, you know, I and and of course the listeners of the podcast won't know this story, but, you know, when we went to our 1st state department adoption and SDA visit
Yeah.
And you were, on a mission trip in Ukraine, in Kyiv, the same week that we were headed over there. And, and of course it didn't go well for us. Yep. You know, you get 3 shots of this thing. Yep. The first one, our whole home study and everything wasn't even opened up to the kids that they were showing us. Yeah. We felt like we had just wasted a ton of money and and just like the Lord just this was the Lord's will for us and we're gonna trust it, but this may not pay out. Right.
Right.
And, I remember you I called you because you were in Ukraine on our on our track folks. Crazy. Right?
This is the craziest thing.
Said meet me on Chris Shattuck's at Hume. The grocery store It was
literally the only place I could pronounce because it was a u and a m. Right. It was like it was like where can I where can I tell Casey to go that he can find me?
Yeah. You didn't say though. I was proud of you. You didn't say to you.
Go to you.
I knew where you're at. And I remember us being on Christhadix, Kate and I just in tears. Yeah. Her being a we, you know, we had the Chandler, our our our our first born, which is our second oldest. Right.
She was 6 months old and so here this new mom and this scared to death dad and you were there and I remember you wrapping your arms around us and praying for us. And I remember you saying specifically in your prayer, I've prayed this prayer over so many people since that Lord remind them that you 2 are an adoptive father. Yeah. God you remember what it's like. You're gonna
have me balling in the middle of this interview.
I'm that's that's actually my goal for this interview. Well, it's
it's not hard to do.
I know. You're a sense of grandpa now, man.
I know. I'm a big pastor here.
But I I remember you praying that. You said
I I mean I'm never forget the prayer. Praying it.
You you said God you gave your son and you remember what it took to to redeem and restore family and God you're an adoptive father too. So God please help Casey and Kate.
Yeah.
Let them not forget your presence And and as much as I wish that would have appeased every moment I was still scared to death. But I'll say that promise of God's word but also just His providence of God's people in my life. And and I think you and I, you know that was a forging in the fires
Absolutely.
Of our friendship all these years. So much so that I when we went back to Ukraine years later, Ukraine without orphans, I was like, I'll carry your bag, brother. I'll do whatever. I didn't do anything. I was useless on that trip.
I was next to useless.
But I we just I know. There weren't a whole lot going on there. I got to carry your bags. Yeah. And so that was what I did.
But I just remember being able to celebrate with you at a different stage of our life now with a child who found a home. So of course fast forward from that day, we went to Ukraine. We went to our second visit. We actually had a we had a potential referral and, and that but that child was, out of country. And then we so then we had to come back because you remember the situation I was working through in my workplace was not well
Yeah.
Received.
Right.
And I was having to work through a lot of difficulties
Yeah.
With that. But we just pressed on faith. I remember reading Valley of Vision back to that time. It was really prevalent in my heart. And I remember one of the Puritan prayers was, Lord have given the choices to live for the pleasures of my sin or give me fiery trials. Lord give me sanctified affliction.
Wow. And I
just remember that season the Lord really convicting me and saying, if if for you to pursue my will for your life means you go through hell and back there's no greater gift I can give you than the fiery trials of affliction that will sanctify you and to help you become more like my son.
Wow.
That 28, you know, as as as self absorbed as I was back then, the Lord was humbling me in that season with a fire of purification and sanctification. But brother I I Wow. And and you're a part of that story as well as other brothers. But fast forward we so we go back the 3rd visit. Of course we find that the child that we were gonna go look now had been placed in the older orphanage Yeah.
And the family did not want separation. The older siblings didn't. So they didn't want to be adopted so that means that he couldn't be adopted. So then of course we see this file of this little girl And I remember, you and Tony kind of coaching me around that season and preparing my heart of both the potential success, but also the fears. Yeah.
I'm walking through this situation with somebody in my church right now. Just preparing them to say the boldness to say yes, but also the humility to say no and be faithful and trust that process of the Lord. And, so I I was like, I saw this picture. And so we took our referral to start our last SDA visit. So if this doesn't work, man we're having it's all over.
Right. Let's start over. And I remember walking into that little orphanage in Nikopol, Nipropetrovsk, Ukraine and this little girl walks in. I tell her she looks like she had loofahs on her hair. You know she was like dad it was a bow. I was like listen I don't know what Ukrainians call that. That was a loofah. Like that was a that was a bath logic.
That's a bathroom sponge.
It was a bathroom sponge baby. But she walked in and I'll never forget seeing her was like seeing Chandler being born. Like I knew that was my child unquestionably. Now the process got harder because the only thing that we could do at that point, the only judge that could see a court case was out of country. So now we had to go back for a 3rd visit and, man I'm like I remember, you know, there was no really good international phone servicing at that point and I remember my AT and T boat was up through the roof.
Oh, I can't.
Because I was calling that little orphanage in Nikopol, Ukraine and saying, you know What's like? Simsi reminding her we're family.
Right.
You know? I'd ask her, you know, you know, Migna Zavut. Migna Zavut, what's your name?
And
she'd go, Ayla Marina Williams. Oh. Right? And I just knew like we had to get there and get her and by god's grace we were able to. And 14 years ago man we adopted her into our life. I saw a 9 year old girl and man now she's almost 23.
Goodness.
It's hard to believe man that we've, you know God's been so kind to us and good to us and and and and our family that calling didn't stop you know. Of course my wife ran foster care for say Mississippi for the Methodist Children's Home and Louisiana helped out donor relations with the Methodist Children's from there. And now it's like I blink and there's a foster kid in my home you know? It's like, oh hey there's a kid being placed in your arm this week. So cool, all right.
So we've had 12 kids through our home, little kids are coming across the border unaccompanied minors. And so we've had 12 children in our home the last few years and man just the passion for this work hasn't ever the embers are not cold brother. They're still just as hot as they've ever been.
It's a beautiful story, first of all. And I think, you know, and I've never yeah. I'm gonna say it. I've never said this to you, but as a as a younger brother, you were such an example of tenacity and trusting God's faithfulness.
Yeah. I think till back then I was probably just stubborn. But by God's grace brother But God gives you what you
need when you need it too.
Yeah. I just couldn't have done it man. I tell you I think and I really, I really receive in that and I appreciate that. That's so kind of you to say. I mean it's just that D.
T. Brawls mentality. I'm just one beggar trying to tell another beggar where to find bread you know. And, man God's been too good to us and me and kind and, I'm very grateful that even in, you know I joke and tell people all the time I apologize to anybody who knew me in my twenties you know? And I'm very very grateful for people who are still friends with me you know even past that day. But man, the Lord is just so kind in that season and I really appreciate His faithfulness to me.
Yeah.
When I didn't deserve it. Yeah. When I I mean I was still struggling with sin and pride and even then that God's glory was still just prevalent in that season. You know I felt like just a stubborn mule just pushing it back against the Lord the whole time and and then the Lord just continuing to propel his will forward. You know?
But but praise the Lord for his faithfulness. Amen. I think in in in continuing and that's the story. Right? Like, God God continues to pursue us. He continues to He continues to to press into us even when we're pushing Him away.
He's pressing on to Him.
And and that is a that is an incredible example because that's that's a little bit what, like, adoptive parenting looks like sometimes.
Well, and we joke and say, like, you know, you think that dacha day is the finish line, whether that is the starting block.
That is
you you You know?
If you if the hardest thing you've ever done is paperwork
Oh my gosh. Like, dude
you hadn't really done anything that hard.
Right, yeah. I mean because we look and say you know we we've had a lot of tearful phone calls since you know? A lot of prayers for each other's children and you know and and and here even to this day you know like I'm still amazed at like how the Lord has been so good and kind even, you know, helping our daughter work through so much in her life and her pushing back and, and then by God's grace our our relationship's deeper than it's ever been and, you know and now the Lord's even kind of commissioning her into this work right?
I mean Which is like That's amazing.
Which to me
is like the punchline of the whole story right? Like that we're at this point and your daughter just completed a degree in social work.
Yeah. Yeah. She did counseling and and psychology and now she's about to go on as a caseworker for for departments.
Un I
mean, for DSS, it's crazy. Unbelievable. And and I tell people like the Completely full circle. The fact that she, you know, here because she that she was not a a baby when she was adopted. She
was She was not.
You know, an extremely broken and, toxic childhood environment from 0 to 7. Yeah. And then the orphanage from 7 to 9, and then packed up and moved to a American Baptist Youth Minister's home. Yeah. You know and all the dysfunction that comes with me and that, right?
And my own, right? But in the same time like the Lord and and fighting and man just all of that we had to fight through with you know the we were extremely close to some attachment disorder issues and we were a lot of man a lot of the maternal, animosity that she had because of her mother birth father. She didn't have that with her birth father. She didn't know him.
Right.
So, you know Papa came in with the sweeping arms and I got to do a lot.
Right.
Whereas I mean we had to work a lot. Now she's closer to mom than she is to me you know. Absolutely. And the Lord is just so good.
I got that t
shirt too. To that. Yeah I know. Listen when they realize how special our wives really are, they they we're we take the back seat brother.
No doubt.
And so but it's just it's it's amazing to know that even now this child who was fatherless Yeah. And orphaned now is gonna be serving children who are in the most traumatic seasons in their lives and homes, and she can give perspective, but also for the parents to help the parents who work. I mean, I'm just But that
blown away, man. But but that's, like, that's the vision. Amen. That's the thing. And I think and and I and I'll say, you know, for for those people that are that are, you know, listening to this podcast, there there are no guarantees. No. Right?
Not at all.
And and so there's not a word of judgment in in anybody whose
No.
Whose story hasn't turned out No. That way.
I I was talking to some dear friends at our church who have had 2 foster placements that were just extremely difficult. Right? And they but they but their heart is still there. And whether it's the highest of highs where you adopt this angel who goes on to be this superstar or you're in the absolute trenches and the things crumble and fall beneath your feet, whether you are just literally holding on to the Lord and letting Him guide you through the darkest parts of your soul, man, it's it's it's a journey worth enduring. It is one we all have to take part of.
But but by God's grace, to to be able to be in a place where you've seen a a child who was fatherless, a child who was vulnerable, a child who who is now who now loves Jesus, who's now who's now in a place where she's she's delving into the system and and and to see her become a disciple maker in that sort of like, it didn't get any better than that man.
No man, I've always said I've said it for years that, man I hope the best sermon I ever preach in my life is is my home. Right? I don't I'm grateful for the church I serve at and I'm incredibly grateful to serve as a pastor and for them to call me pastor, elder, whatever. But man if I if I fail at this parenting thing and as a husband, I don't care how many people like my preaching. And and you know me, man.
The same guy on the stage, the same guy off. You know? And so, like, the fact is is that That's really true, folks. Yeah.
Like, I I just want you to know. I mean,
you get it honest.
So when you when you see in the pulpit and you go, hey. I can't believe yeah. No. He's that way everywhere. Yeah. Always.
Yeah. I'm 100% on every everywhere, brother. I'm just in it. I'll go. I've never I mean, listen. My my orthopedic surgeon reminds me, that the age deteriorates that zeal. That's right. But in my spirit man I'm still there, right? My spirit is willing but my flesh is weak.
And it's weaker by the day.
It is. It's getting weaker by the day. But but I will say that like I yeah I think the thing for me is I I just long for my wife to know she is my love and my children to know they are loved. And I mean if I do that if I love Jesus and love my family well then I'll be a better pastor.
Yeah.
The greatest gift I can give to my church is to be a good husband and dad. Yeah. And I love the fact that even now like our kids, you know, now we have 14, 9 and almost 4 there will be 4 Saturday, you know. Crazy to have a 4 year old. Too old for this bro.
But our there's the norm the normalcy of our home even for foster care. Like our kids are going to grow up in a space that our home was always open and that whether a child was coming from across the border or an orphan or family or we're bringing people in to love on them because they're going through the adoption process. I mean, I just love the fact that my kids, they're not gonna know anything different. Yep. And and I pray, Lord, we'll use that, you know, to continue planting seeds and I I believe He will.
Dude, we're gonna need to pick up later.
We need
to do a 2.0 here.
Oh gosh.
But that's part of being on the pastoral advisory board now. Like, you gotta hang in with us. Right?
That's true. Yeah. Y'all y'all locked me in for a few years.
That's it. That's it.
Well, I mean I I I want to just encourage, especially all the listeners, man I was you know I we were so young and full of faith and Lifeline really wasn't even as fully established out to the point it is now. So we just kind of did it on our own but man oh what a gift Lifeline has been and now in 19 different states and you know of course we partner in South Carolina with Lifeline through you know Families Count and wraparound care and, and the fact that Lifeline, I mean the state of South Carolina is requiring people to be licensed or through 2nd, you know, 3rd parties.
Right. Right. So
I mean, the fact that, like, you know, whether it be, you know, what's going on now even with the merger and all that stuff. I mean, Lifeline has been such it's one of our quickest, quickest responses to people saying, hey, where do I start?
Yeah.
Or pastors who asked me, like, where do you start to have that conversation? I'm so fast, like, you know, I have to do the CEUs through Lifeline anyways. I'm like, man, there's great resources for you to read and to keep my life sister as a foster parent, you know, like but I'm like, there's great resources. Yeah. So I'm just so appreciative of you all. And, man, I I'm honored to be a part of the pastoral team that's helping that, but I'm even more grateful to call you a friend, brother.
Yeah, bro.
And I'm so, humbled that you still like me and you still keep me around and I'll keep on Hey, 2, Williams.
I don't just like you.
I love you, brother. I love you too, man.
And,
just I love what you guys are doing.
For you. Thankful we've had a chance to sit down, talk a little bit.
Will you do it again?
We'll do it again soon.
I'm down.
Thanks for listening to the Defender Podcast. If you enjoy making this podcast a part of your weekly routine, we'd love for you to take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review the Defender Podcast to make it easier for more people to find. For more information on how you and your church can partner with Lifeline, visit us at lifelinechild.org. If you want to connect with me, please visit herbynewell.com. Follow us at lifeline on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter by searching for Life line child.
You can email us directly at info at lifelinechild.org. Beloved, will you allow God to use the gospel to you to impact the life of a child? Please contact us because we are here to defend the fatherless. We'll see you again next week for the Defender podcast.