Tom Emmer, House Majority Whip | Coaching Today’s Congress

THE DECIDERS — S1E08: Tom Emmer Final transcript [COLD OPEN] Tom We now have kamikaze politicians. They used to talk a good game, but they would never fly the plane into the building. Guess what? They will now fly the plane into the building. [ANNCR INTRO] ANNCR Behind every major policy decision, every corporate strategy, every Washington powerplay. Are the insiders shaping the game and the new rules to win it? The deciders, with Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Brody Mullins and veteran D.C. strategist Lisa Camooso Miller. Brody Welcome to the deciders, where we talk to the insiders, rewriting the rules for effective advocacy in Washington. Today we're talking to Congressman Tom Emmer, a Republican from Minnesota and the House Majority whip. Thanks for joining us. Tom Good to be with you guys. Lisa Congressman, you are a Minnesota guy, a coach, a hockey fan, father to seven. How do all of those experiences inform and lead the way that you do the job as the whip every day? Tom Everything you need to learn about humility. Everything that you need to learn about being a teammate and a leader. You learn in the locker room growing up because your teammates. If your ego is too big, they will resize it in a heartbeat. The other half of that is raising seven kids. There are a lot of similarities to what I do today, to what I learned. Tom You know, on those road trips with seven kids, two dogs, Jackie and me in a 15 passenger bus, and you hear in the back he started it. Yeah. Okay. Lisa So Brody and I are a little bit about what it is. The job of the House Majority Whip is on a day to day basis. Tom It's the best coaching job I've ever been entrusted with. You have to understand all the players on your bench. You have to understand, their strengths, their weaknesses. Your job is to put people in a position where they can be successful, right? You try to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses. You know, Minnesota didn't invent passive aggressive behavior. Tom Some argue we perfected it. And, I happen to be more on the aggressive, aggressive front, which works pretty well with our members, because they don't want, people telling them what they want to hear. They just want to hear the truth, and then they will make the decisions. So I think they thought that it was going to be the second coming of somebody who was an amazing whip. Tom Tom Delay, whose nickname was The Hammer. I don't have the tools that he had. Tom Delay could literally walk into somebody's office, I'm told, and say, you know, that, subcommittee gavel that you wanted. If you're not with us tomorrow, you can kiss that goodbye, right? I can't do that. In the day of 24. Seven, entertainment driven, sound bite news. Tom So I view it differently. When I, was given the honor of having this job, the whip's job. I gave the members two rules. First rule is you take care of your people at home. There is no one who voted for you in Washington, DC. So you take care of the people who put you here because you're their voice. Tom Second, you take care of yourself. If you're not taking care of yourself, you're not going to be here very long. So if you can do those two things, then we can figure out how to help you do the things that you came here to do. And that's where the coaching, background comes in, because it really is about what people can and can't do, what they will and won't do. Tom Making sure that you're communicating with them, all the time. My job is the, is the whip. Really is a coaching job. And it's not, a coaching like I'm teaching them anything. It's just making sure that they know. All right? This is what we're trying to accomplish, and this is how we think you plug into it. Brody That's great. So you talk about the change in leadership style from delay to now. And you mentioned the media or there are other other changes in the margins media. What makes it so much more difficult? Tom Well, the world is changing, I think, especially here. You know, I came in 12 years ago and I think professional staff in, on the Hill for years drove the bus. But you got more and more members who are coming here who are self-directed members. My term, they came here not to be told what to do. They came here to be part of the solution and drive it themselves. Tom It creates new challenges, but that that's the transition between, I think, the old way that it was done and the new way, you know, there have been much larger majorities, right? 247 members at one point while I was here that have not accomplished the things that we have accomplished, and people talk about having more members. Most people are like, well, you it'll be easier to pass things. Tom No it won't. Because what happens is people break off into their own little clicks. It's like, the, the, middle school, the high school, the college, they all got their, little groups that align with each other, and they, they tend to battle with each other. It's it's not that you want more members, because that will always be a challenge, but we're in the majority. Tom And when you have one, two, three seat, advantage, that's the challenge. Lisa We'll be right back. [Break] Brody Welcome back to the Deciders. We're talking with Congressman Tom Emmer. Lisa I worked for Speaker Hastert in the Republican. The Republican leadership was in place back then when we talked about the majority of the majority, where if the majority of the conference was in support of a piece of legislation, everyone would rally behind that. Those rules have changed a little bit. When you talk to us a little bit about what that looks like now, and are we going back to that program at some point, or have we ascended on from there? Tom I don't think we're going back. I think we're going to get better. The majority than majority is still effect, but it only applies to bringing something to the floor. The speaker has to be confident that he has a majority of the majority, because he will be severely criticized if he brings something to the floor that doesn't have the majority of the majority. Tom But it's more than that. There was a big thing a couple of years ago about you never vote against the rule. That is just a given. You never vote against the rule. Okay, I get it. Times have changed, right? I talked about how we now have, kamikaze politicians. They used to talk a good game, but they would never fly the plane into the building. Tom Guess what? They will now fly the plane into the building. And, I had to explain to some of them a about a year ago. The president does not distinguish between the rule vote and the ultimate vote. And they're like, oh, no. You know, Mr. President, I voted with you. No you didn't. Why are you against me? All of these, changes, you know, create tension, but then they create a new, reality at the same time. Brody So let's boil that down. Just looking at the House Financial Services Committee just in the last 10 or 15 years, that committee has changed so much where it used to be that people played by the old school rules. And think of someone like Blaine Luetkemeyer, who sort of, you know, would take the corporate PAC money, would, would work across the aisle, try to get, bipartisan, pro-business legislation. Brody Now, that committee is much more difficult to to get a consensus, even among Republicans. How are things changed over there? Tom I mean, on the outside, it probably looks like that because of these, disputes that you see. But really, this is more of a systemic problem. I mean, look at agriculture. Ag was never a partisan committee. Even AG has Partisan issues now. Transportation – a road or a bridge is neither a Republican or a Democrat. And yet they have issues now. Tom It's the same thing in the Financial Services Committee. I give you an example. There are disagreements about digital assets. Frankly, money to me is not Partisan. There's no such thing is bipartisan. It is nonpartisan. And I keep trying to emphasize that French Hill and before him, Patrick McHenry French keeps putting forward great votes. I mean, the Clarity Act got almost 100 Democrats to vote for it. Tom Other bills have had almost 300 votes on the House floor. Really interesting, though, to see, this, 21st century housing discussion going on, because this is more telling, I think, than anything else. The House passed an amazing, housing bill, with input from both sides of the aisle. It is a Republican bill, no question. But, Democrats participated in the committee, in in building it, send it over to the Senate. Tom And then the Senate, decides that they're going to run a different bill. Guess what? Maxine has, joined hands with French Hill to say we are not doing the Senate bill, in its current form, unless we have a conference committee, and we can work through some of these details. As much as it seems like it has changed because of the, the, enhanced political rhetoric that we get out there because we seem so divided, between Republicans, Democrats and others. Tom There still is a lot of great work going on between Republicans and Democrats in the House. Lisa I love that you say that so much. It seems to me like we're hearing from a lot of our guests about how there is compromise, and there is work that's happening in between the two Partisan sides. Talk a little bit, though, about what it's like to go from the House to the Senate. Tom Well, first off, I you got to be careful using that term compromise. I think politicians have destroyed the, the word I used to put it this way when we got married, Jackie wanted four kids, I wanted three. We compromised. We have seven. All right, it works. It works very well in our marriage, but it doesn't work in government. Tom And when everybody gets what everybody wants, the politicians get a whole bunch of garbage that we don't need and we can't afford. And this is the problem that we see. I prefer to look at it as, everybody's got a position and you have to negotiate as hard as you can for your position. So the difference between the House and the Senate, there's learned memory on the House side that I will argue, is not on the Senate side. Tom The first hearing on digital assets was probably 2017, 2016. I'll never forget it, too, because I heard Republicans and Democrats sounding exactly the same, because they just did not understand what this was. But the interesting thing is, is that has progressed. We keep doing a market structure bill, so people know what the, what the rules of the road are. Tom I, we had been working on stablecoin legislation and at different things like that for the last 7 or 8 years. The Senate, they get the Clarity Act. They don't have the institutional memory that the House has. So, yeah, you can be and some of the senators will probably, turn their nose up at that. I am critical of this Senate because they are doing exactly what they were designed to do. Tom Slow things down. Be more, quote unquote thoughtful. We are from the, the back alley of the, U.S. House of Representatives. Where, you know what? There are street fights taking place every day. And when you're all done with them, it's like, all right, this is our product. Brody So you're talking about crypto. The bill is now stuck in the Senate. Tom I think it's moving. They're going to mark it up, towards the end of this month. They, suggested. So that'd be great. You have senators who don't have the same experience as the House has, and they had to go through this process. It's fine as long as they are moving forward that we're good. Brody We'll be right back after this. [ BREAK] Lisa Welcome back. We're here with House Republican Whip Tom Emmer. Brody Congressman, you were at the NRCC for a couple of cycles. The fundraising world looks a little different back then before the rise of super PACs. You've got super PACs now. You've got the crypto super PACs. And then you've got the crypto bill. Do you think that the spending that the industry has done against Democrats has hurt the ability of Democrats to compromise, using a bad word on the crypto legislation? Tom No, I don't think that's the, that's the issue. Fair shake wasn't spending against they were spending for they don't, picket somebody because they're a Republican or a Democrat. They were simply looking for people who understand the issues that they see most important to the future of 21st century finance. Americans are getting more and more sophisticated in these younger people. Tom They know best when they CBS and when you're going to try to be on both sides of every issue. They've had enough of it. So I think Fair Shake, is a great example. They picked people that align with their values. Lisa I'm so glad that you brought up the difference between two different generations, if you will, how 50 and up feel. It's one way, and the generation behind us feels it's different. How do you, though, unpack these complicated issues, like crypto and banking and financial services for people back home? How do you make people understand those complex conversations? Tom You know, with people in my generation, it's about making money when you're in that younger group. It's not about making money. I mean, these people, these young people coming up, which was what's so exciting. Theirs is about making the world a better place. So how do I explain it? I'll describe Bitcoin to you in a very rudimentary way. Tom Virtual gold. Why don't you sit back and ask yourself who decided that gold has some innate value? When did they decide that? I mean, it's no different than gold or silver or you pick your, commodity. Value is is based on the person that is assigning a value to it. And market creation, all the rest. It's all the same. Tom The biggest issue that we have is decentralized finance is exactly that decentralized. So it's like, wait a second, what are we going to do about the two tier legacy financial system that is the greatest the world has ever seen? This is why it was imperative for Congress to get involved on these issues. I think it really is important that the Senate get this market structure bill done so that we can move forward, because you want all this innovation, all these entrepreneurs taking risks in this country. Tom We don't need any more scam banking frauds operating there. I think offshore out of, you know, supervision or oversight, of the US government. And we want our existing legacy financial system to be able to evolve into the 21st century system. So it's we are living in an amazing time. Lisa It's a great point. Brody Tell us about your work for community banks. Tom You know, I describe, our our financial system is this in this country as the definition of our freedom? I don't think people understand that in a different country, you get to know somebody. You got to be connected to the, you know, the upper class. And, in this country, any dumb schlub like me can walk into your local bank. Tom This is how you start Harley Davidson. This is how you start. Amazon. This is how you started Walt Disney. All these businesses started in someone's garage, and they started because in this country, I got a business plan. I go sit down with my community banker, who I have a personal relationship with, usually knows my family, and I ask him to give me some startup capital. Tom And that community banker says, you know what? You're worth the risk. I'm going to take this risk with you. And we've got to open up that marketplace so more people can get into the banking business. We're going to have to recognize at some point that our banking laws are 100 years old. The world has changed dramatically in the last hundred years. Tom You can't just keep patching up the good ship lollipop. You're going to have to actually build a new hull at some point, and you're going to have to start to to sell it on the new sea of the 21st century. But that's happening as we speak. Lisa Congressman, is it too soon to ask you what the House looks like if the Democrats take over in terms of leadership in yourself. Tom Do you know what it's going to come down to? What it always comes down to the vast majority of this country. I will argue the 80%, 60 to 80% that do not wear a partisan jersey year round like I do. They are just living their lives trying to pay the mortgage, put food on the table. It will be sometime after Labor Day when they will ask themselves whether it's direct or just their subconscious. Tom Do I feel better about my economic situation today than I did when this started? And do I see a bright future ahead for me and my family? I believe the answer to that question is going to be yes. It's going to take a few more months, and I think it is going to take the Iran mission being resolved, which hopefully is coming soon. Tom But I don't see us losing the House if that happens, because look, the other side, who's their leader? What's their message? I hate Trump. You should too. That's not a winning message for the people I just described. That's a. Lisa Great point. Brody Congressman, we ask every guest on this are the same three questions. Tom Yes. No. Yes. Lisa What's the decision from the past year that you're especially proud of? Tom Probably the biggest thing was the bill that passed and was signed into law last July. I texted my wife the morning that we, after we passed that, I think I was up for about 60 some hours straight at the end of May a year ago, when we passed the first version that went over to the Senate and then again at the end of June, when we were passing the ultimate bill that got signed into law. Tom And I just said to her, you know, thank you, because you sacrifice a ton because I'm gone and I'm doing this stuff. But that might be the single, greatest thing that I was ever involved in. And I think it's going to make a difference. Brody What's one decision you like to do over? Tom I don't have any regrets, man. You know, life is an interesting thing. I never once saw myself being a U.S. representative in Congress. Ever. And somehow I'm here, and it's, it's been quite a ride, and there's, there's much yet to come. So I just take it one day at a time and try to do the best I can. Lisa That's a great way to think about it. Congressman, our last question is always, what's something that people in Washington aren't thinking about that they ought to be? Tom You got to be thinking about what comes next in that. And we get so focused on today's political disagreement, what comes next? I mean, this is the greatest country, that has ever existed on the face of the planet. But you've reached a, a what a, a moment 250 years, with a free, self-governing experiment has now reached another milestone. Tom But how do you prepare for the next 250 years? And perhaps if people can get over their likes and their dislikes for just a little bit, they may recognize that, you know, these extremes that we've been dealing with, I see a bright future where what comes next is the vast majority of this country, the 80% that Reagan used to talk about on the left and the right can literally look at each other and have a discussion about, you know what? Tom We're much better off working together than we are working against each other. Brody Congressman, thanks so much for joining us. Tom Thank you guys. I had fun this morning. Lisa Back in a moment. [ BREAK ] Brody Welcome back to the Deciders. That was Tom Emmer. Lisa, what do you think? Lisa I loved that conversation so much. I love that when the whip said that when he comes to a conversation with a member, he reminds them first. Who got them here? But who elected them? Who they are themselves and then reach a decision. But he doesn't like the word compromise, but he's more optimistic about collaboration as a whole. And that surprised me. Brody Yeah, I thought it is fascinating to how much things have changed in just his 12 years on Capitol Hill. As in, not that long ago, the leadership, the whip had so much more power. He talked about Tom Delay taking away someone's subcommittee assignment or committee chair, and he said that that can't happen anymore. And he didn't talk about fundraising. Brody But I suspect that the rise of small dollar donations, the decline of of corporate PACs, the rise of super PACs have allowed each member of Congress had so much more power on their own. They don't need the leadership as much to survive. And that's got to make the job of the whip or leadership in corralling members to get to 18 more difficult than ever. Lisa Yeah, he said, we're not going back. He says we're definitely going forward. So I guess we'll get to see. Brody Thanks for joining us on The Deciders. Lisa Be sure to like and follow us on YouTube and anywhere else you get your podcasts. [ANNCR OUTRO] ANNCR The Deciders is hosted by Brody Mullins and Lisa Camooso Miller and produced by Dave Tobey. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Find more online at deciders.show and follow the Deciders on YouTube, LinkedIn and X.