This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate Change, our collective challenge. I am Hannah Walker and I believe that the best way to communicate a message is by being passionate about what you are talking about. Through that passion, I believe you take people with you and create action using your influence to make change and make a difference. Our task today is to get all of us to net zero. Welcome to my guests today, and that is Josh
Steele and Stan Thomas. Josh Steele is Chair of the Young Engineers Network, and Stan is Deputy Chair of the Young Engineers Network. The network is for those in the first 10 years of their career. It is designed to support engineers, helping them progress and develop their careers, as well as enabling them to come together and influence the growth of the sector. It also provides a platform for new thinking, novel ideas to design and knowledge. Thank you very much to Stan and
Josh for joining me today. Good to see you. I'm going to start with both of you, actually, because it would be lovely to understand a little bit about your careers, how you've got to be where you are. And then I'd love to talk more about the Young Engineers Network. So we'll start with Josh. That's superb. Well, firstly, thank you very much for having us on. Yeah, we're really
excited to dive into this with you. So, yeah, my career started, obviously, leaving college, as most people did, without really understanding what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go. And I was introduced to a family friend who was doing domestic installation. I was house bashing, as we used to call it. And I started my apprenticeship there. So I did a four year apprenticeship qualifying as an electrician. Now, through through that period, I found myself into the building management
systems world. My father had been in the industry for some time. And, yeah, I found myself as a BMS electrical installer and progressed really through through the ranks. you know, promoted into commissioning and software writing. And then, you know, I did about eight years on the tools in total. And I thought, oh, there must be an easier way of making some money. So I now find myself in the world of sales. And so, yeah, I've been doing that for a couple of years now.
And yes, that's a brief, brief history on myself. Superb. So that work that you were doing early on as an electrician and, as you say, developing the building management systems has really informed your ability to talk to your clients and your
audience, I guess. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's been so beneficial to have the technical knowledge that, you know, the systems that I've worked on for so long, you know, to be able to sit in front of a client and discuss it with them and use my engineering understanding of it as well to, you know, portray it in a way that they can understand. And, yeah, it's been super, super
beneficial for me, really. Superb. And I'd certainly like to talk about that later because one thing we come across, I'm not an engineer by background or I don't have a technical background, but there's all those acronyms. You slipped into the BMS and I do know what that means, but it took me a while. So, Stan, would you like to talk about, tell us a little bit about yourself? Thank you. Yes. Yeah. So I came into the industry about. A year ago now, so literally exactly a year,
about five days ago. And I came from a small gardening, sort of did a bit of gardening and bar work and lots of hospitality work. So working with a lot of people, didn't really know what I wanted to do at the university, which was studying business and environment. So sort of integrating businesses and sustainable management resources, sustainable social practices. And this job came up from a company that I've been working with.
And it was in building management systems. I didn't know what it was exactly the same as you. And learned a little bit more about it and sort of understand it in a way that. I think of it as a person and you've got eyes and ears and touch and you can sense everything. And basically, how do you use sensors in a building to intelligently communicate changes of temperature, CO2, humidity to help the comfort of an individual? I found
it extremely interesting. And when you realise it can be paired with sustainability and using less energy in drastic amounts, I... sort of delve straight in and now specialise in the wireless technology of LoRaWAN. So that's wirelessly communicating of data to save on installation costs and labour
hours. Superb. So it's interesting when you talk about those sensors, which is so important when you work, when we work, we go into projects in hospitals and schools, that controlling of that temperature is vital, especially in hospitals to the recovery of patients. and in schools to help children just get on with their learning. Certainly. Yeah, we see it a lot. And the CO2
levels as well and the air quality. So as soon as you get parts per million of CO2 above 1 ,000, which the average person wouldn't understand too well, I suppose, unless you're on something like an aeroplane or a confined space and you start feeling a bit tired in a classroom. I know it used to happen to me all the time. And it wasn't because I've been sleeping the night before because I've been on Instagram reels or something.
It was more that there wasn't actually enough oxygen in the room and there's too much carbon dioxide. So I think stuff like that is extremely important to people's health, whether they realise it or not. The research is coming out now and it's quite outstanding. Fantastic. Thank you very much. So both of you, you've got a different background and experience, but you are. both now heavily involved in the Young Engineers Network. I explained a little bit about that at the beginning.
But would you be able to talk me through what your role is at the Young Engineers Network? Because we've got a chair and we've got a deputy chair here. Josh, would you like to start? Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, first and foremost, the BCIA is the Building Controls Industry Association, which essentially is the governing body for the BMS world. A few years back in 2022, they set up a young engineers network that was predominantly aged for people aged under the age of 35. And
it's young people coming into the industry. And I actually attended the first event and I went by myself. I was nervous. I didn't know anybody. I sat in the corner. I was quiet and, you know, started engaging in some small conversations with people. And, you know, there was some light, you know, education pieces and some presentations. And, you know, it was followed by a social networking
event after. And I walked away from it thinking, wow, what a great, you know, initiative that this is to bring in like -minded people together in an environment where, you know, you're free from the everyday pressures of, you know, the construction industries. And, yeah, from that kind of day, I started volunteering, you know, helping out, getting involved and kind of casting some ideas around. And, yeah, recently got elected
as the chairman. And, yeah, I have to say I'm absolutely thrilled and chuffed to bits and, you know, wear that with great honour. You know, being able to work in such a great leadership team, you know, myself and Stan might hold the, you know, chair and vice chair positions, but
the leadership team between us. you know is great you know we've got such a good strong team putting together events for you know young engineers to come together we like to add elements of training um and you know as i say in an unpressured environment where you can voice opinions you know talk to each other and you know without the fear of being judged and you know it can be a scary place when you're walking into a room full of people you don't know but you know it is such a great initiative
and one i think You know, we'll do our industry very, very well. And Stan, how did you come to be involved? I have sort of been on the outskirts of the Young Engineers Network. I'm in the south and Josh was the south lead for the Young Engineers Network. I got introduced to Josh, immediately got along at the first event, got speaking about it. And I love what it stands for. And as soon as I saw it, same as Josh, I just thought, what
a brilliant thing to be able to do. You're creating a safe space, which I think is especially important in this day and age. I think one of our key aims this year is to get a grip on the mental health of the Young Engineers Network and sort of promote in some of the events. Just, I suppose, as Josh was saying, the ability to speak without being judged. about not only things in the industry. It's very important that people should learn. And we have those technical sessions and those
workshops. But you also develop friendships and connections that you'll be able to speak to outside of your current friendship groups or your family. You've got people that are slightly disconnected from you, I suppose, as such. And I think we
should definitely take advantage of that. But it's also, I suppose, on another level, more towards this podcast is... encouraging innovation of these young people we've got young people now that are willing to change that have grown up in an era of change and and the industry is is uh is is a wide range of ages but the younger generation can really innovate change and learn about this net zero stuff whereas people that have been stuck in practices for for a long while
may be slightly more hesitant to to this change so i think that's really where the young engineers network's going to come in and uh and really helped the industry to the best. Superb. Thank
you. Now, taking the conversation back to that net zero, that climate change that we are so heavily involved in at Salix, we work very closely, obviously, with governments across the UK, as well as public sector housing associations with other organisations within housing to drive this agenda and to meet these very challenging net zero targets that we have and that we read about. very often in the news every day. So we're looking at substantial changes and challenges as we face
climate change. Can you tell us about the critical role that you think engineers play in developing solutions to climate change and net zero, but by designing the systems, we've touched upon that a little bit, Stan, but by designing the systems that reduce environmental impact? How important is it that engineers are on that? I think it's extremely important that young engineers are, I think the most important bit here is really
the education of these young engineers. And so they're kept up to date with the latest and greatest because there's things coming in the industry. I mean, every month you've got a whole revelation. Now you're integrating AI and technology into analytics platforms that will help you prevent.
all sorts it can help you prevent the failure of devices it can improve your efficiency so i think really learning how that works is important for the young engineers um we've never had more tools and devices uh at disposal to allow us to design such efficient systems um so i think again that comes back to the young engineers network and and us training them on on these latest and greatest systems that we're seeing uh unveil sort of Left, right and centre. And
you understand a lot of the technologies. Obviously, there's a lot more to come and they're fast developing and we're seeing that happen every day. But in terms of admissions, do you think generally most people understand emissions? Do you think people understand carbon emissions and how we can manage them and maybe how technology can be of use when you talk to people in your work? You know, in your wider circle and amongst the network. I
think that's a bit of an interesting one. I think it always comes down to the education piece. I think, you know, most people don't understand the full dynamics of, you know, emissions and, you know, what impact it's having, where it's happening and stuff like that. I think the common, you know, concept is, you know, you look at cars, you know, cars produce emissions, you know, but. You know, it far exceeds just cars on the road.
So going back to that education piece, you know, there's a lot of buzzwords that we seem to be flying around, you know, net zero decarbonisation, all this sort of stuff. But, you know, I do think it's important to really kind of get the ideas across in a clear, simple way for people to understand. And I think that's probably, you know. One of the biggest challenges with it really is that education piece. The technology these days is,
you know, forever progressing. You know, technology is changing every day and it gives us the tools to enhance our capabilities to manage these, you know, emissions from, you know, being on site and, you know, connecting to these different, you know, innovations and everything like that. So, yeah, I think a lot of the understanding,
you know, comes down to education. And in your work, Josh, because you've moved from being that electrician to knowing so much about the building management systems into sales, do you find that that's a large part of your work that you're now talking to people about, not just how you get a piece of technology implemented and designed, but how it is energy efficient and how it can contribute to that, to building a better planet? Is that part of your work? Yeah, absolutely.
We're finding all the time that, you know, when we're going into, you know, these big project tenders, you know, a lot of it is around sustainability, energy management and, you know, being more eco -friendly to the environment. You know, a lot of the stuff we're seeing now is around recycling. A lot of building materials are being recycled. You know, we're looking at enhanced technologies and analytic packages that, you know, once the, you know. post -occupancies being completed.
We're looking at analytics packages that are monitoring the systems to see how well they are performing against their design specifications. We've got alarm routings that are able to tell us when a piece of kit isn't operating in that dynamic of what it should be and allows us to go and investigate it before it really starts
to cause massive effects. So a lot of it is taking the proactive effect rather than just waiting for something to you know happen a lot of this technology is advancing now and giving us a lot of tools to be able to monitor it not even you know just through the construction stages but you know post completion as well and do you find that you're it's more of a nudge or do you think people are coming to you with that sustainable demand you know for their projects Oh, it's definitely
coming heavily from above, from the developers of these big construction sites. You know, it really is at the forefront of their focus. And I think that has naturally filtered down, you know, through the different contractors and stuff like that. And it's making people think outside the box slightly and thinking, well, how can we innovate this? How can we improve it? How
can we make it better? You know, I think that drive from above has definitely, you know, helped and it allows us to, you know, drive it forward you know with our clients and stuff as well so yeah i agree with that and stan with the people that you work with you know every day do you do is it is it is it more you suggesting or is it is it that kind of nudge or is it people demanding a sustainable approach yeah i suppose as a as a sales manager myself it's i'm i i'm selling
into system installers which are then completing these intelligent systems for the end client and i will it's a two -way street i will say to them it's going to help with the compliance and reporting all these new governmental policies that are that are coming in um and you need to make sure the systems you're putting in a future proof because it's only going to get more strict and rightly so uh for the benefit of the planet um and Yeah, I'd say they're coming back and
saying this is what we're looking for. The end customer wants to be sustainable. They want to be seen as sustainable. Their business is being pushed towards green, sustainable advertising even. And I think it improves the sort of recognition you get as a company for having these sustainable, healthy, air quality buildings. That's what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a massive push for it. And it's only going to get more in the next year
or two. And is that push, do you think that push is important coming from a combination of factors, so government, private sector, us all working together on that? I think so, yeah, yeah. It's certainly important for the government getting involved with these grants and loans they're putting in. I think that's going to seriously help out because it does, in the end it comes down to cost, it comes down to how much money
can you put into it. into a building because you can get the latest and greatest technology, but it's making that work effectively for you and getting that return on investment as well. So it's if I put the money in, when do I see that money back is the question I'm being asked, because it does come down to it. It's easy to think about it as all good for the planet and
philanthropy. And I think that's great. At the end of the day, we're speaking about large businesses here in the private sector specifically, and they need to see that they're going to get some sort of return on their investment, whether that's through improving the visibility of their brand through being sustainable or whether that's through saving heating emissions through applying smart radiator valves and saving heating emissions
in areas that don't need them. Well, you've kind of answered my next question because I was going to ask, what is net zero and is it all about cost? And the nub of it is, I suppose, it's largely about cost. Of course it is, because this is expensive to do. But there is also the background of being good for the environment and meeting
those challenges that we have. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's a balance between how much the system's going to cost and the sustainability side of it, if you're going to get the most expensive tools and equipment. Do you go for the, if you're going to spend £100 ,000 more, are you only going to get a marginal gain on the carbon emissions that maybe you could save elsewhere through creating cycling aid for your workers and you put the money towards something else that could maybe
slash the emissions more in your business? So I think you've also got to be intelligent with where you are putting this money towards now.
building management systems super and do you find i mean question for either of you actually do you find that when people coming to you at the point they come to you and i appreciate you're in the young engineers network but the point when your clients come to you they're discussing all their options it might not necessarily impact what you can provide but they're looking at the whole big picture i mean that's that's that's a bit of an interesting one because i mean we're
we're we're we're quite a niche market we're quite small in the grand scheme of the whole construction site um albeit you know a lot of the modern technologies fall within you know the building management systems um but when talking to clients and you know developers and stuff like that we do always have the conversations on you know what what can we do what can we improve and you know how do we further develop it and you know i think that's where you know having
young engineers in in the industry at the forefront of these technologies and enhancing you know the modern day practice is is key um so yeah the conversations are always there and you know you've got to start somewhere right and it's a good position to be in to start and we're having these conversations now and now the conversations are flowing they seem to be developing we start hearing more and more about it and And once the word of mouth gets around, in a few years' time,
I think we'll all be on it a lot more. So you're inspired by not just your work day to day, but your involvement with the young engineers because you're seeing a lot of that positive work and positive action happening. So does that mean you're feeling positive or good about the climate future? I think you can kind of look at it one of two ways. I think if we carry on heading the way we're heading, Without taking action, we
could be in some trouble. Looking on the brighter side of it, and as I say, having these conversations, as the conversations progress, there are lots and lots of talented people coming into our industry that are grown up with technology. Now, I like to think I was kind of on the cutoff point. I had it just before technology came in and kind of had it learning the ropes of technology as
well. You know, a lot of these kids nowadays, you know, they're on phones, they're on PlayStations, Xbox, you know, computers and all that sort of stuff. So they've kind of grown up with technology and seen it, you know, progress and enhance. So what we have coming into our industry is a lot of talented young people that are built up with technology and they're coming up with these ideas and visions. And, you know, it paints a
much brighter future for us. I generally believe that, you know, the young engineers are our future and, you know, they'll be the ones that deliver it for us. Superb. Thank you. Now, you're both obviously very young in your careers. Stan, what's next? What are the next steps for you and your work? And how do you see your career developing? Definitely. And just what can I make one quick point just about the previous? Just I just think a couple of key points for this getting to net
zero with the young engineers is at. So three main points, I think. I think planning has got to be an extremely important part of the process. If you try and retrofit buildings with these new smart technologies, it costs a ridiculous amount more than if you were to build them with it in. That's my first point. Second point is
communication. I think people in all different stages of this building, so from the grant to the planning, to the design, all the way to the commissioning, everyone needs to be communicating for that one goal of net zero. And another one is extremely complex. I think that's the other barrier we're going to have to come across. And it's creating easy to understand. I know we've got loads of acronyms at the start of this. We were talking about the BMS and you've got HVAC
and all this. It's trying to break it down into easy, understandable practices that everyone
can perform in the industry. And lastly. people don't like change and i think we're going to have to learn how to change and be flexible and that's where the young engineers come in um but but with regards to me and the sort of future um of my my career i'm sticking with the i'm in i'm in a brilliant company at the moment very happy about where i am and i love the fact i'm making a difference in energy efficiencies um no plans to move but um with regards to the young
engineers network i'd I want to push it from strength to strength. And that's what me and Josh are doing this year. We've got a couple of plans to put in place. I think it's a really exciting time to be in the Young Engineers Network. So we're going to prioritise mental health by fostering an inclusive environment and supportive environment. And there's going to be other sort of volunteers, I suppose, if we can get them to help us out along the way with that alongside
workshops. addressing work -life balance, resilience on the industry. And I suppose my last point would just be the young engineers, exactly as Josh said, young engineers have got the power in their hands to change this industry for the better and to help the UK and the world reduce their carbon emissions. So I think, yeah. I can't wait to see what happens. Superb. Thank you. We're hoping you're going to come back as well.
I'm going to go to Josh in a moment. We hope you come back and explain and tell me the progress you have made with all those fantastic plans. Josh, chair of the Young Engineers, I expect you'll be mirroring a lot of what Stan has just explained. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, the BCIA Young Engineers Network is generally such a good... place to be and to be a part of it is something I'm really, really proud of. We've got some big plans for the year. We've
got quite a few events planned already. We've really started this year strong and we're excited to see what the future holds. We're two young engineers ourselves. We haven't done this before. We're almost winging it as we go, but we're having great fun whilst doing it. We've built some great relationships and we're learning along the way. You know, what it's doing for me and my own career
personally is superb. You know, I'm able to develop my own personal skills and, you know, I'm learning technical skills for the workshops and stuff that we're doing. And, yeah, it really is great. I would encourage everybody to, you know, look it up, get involved and, you know, come and join us because it is great. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that enthusiasm. And we're
terribly excited. to watch you progress. Those key elements that Stan mentioned as well a few moments ago about planning, communication and the complexities around the net zero are very poignant to discuss. Thank you very much to both of you for joining us today for our Salix decarbonisation dialogue podcast. We hope you'll come back again. There can be no doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow
global warming. Today, we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current and future impacts of climate change. Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate commitments. Today, we work for tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and send any news or views to our podcast email, which is podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. But a big thanks once again to Josh and to Stan for your time today and telling us all about the
Young Engineers Network. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Thanks. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information about our work, and to find more content, please visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.