You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate Change, our collective challenge. I am Hannah Walker and I believe that the best way to communicate a message is by being passionate about what you are talking about. Through that passion, I believe you take people with you and create action using your influence to make change and make a difference. Our task today is to get
all of us to net zero. Now, today I have a wonderful guest, a very special guest with me, and that's our Salix board chair, Natalie Evans, Baroness Natalie Evans of Bowes Park. Full title is the Royal Honourable the Baroness Evans of Bowes Park. Natalie is a current member of the House
of Lords. educated at Henrietta Barnett School at the University of Cambridge, studied social and political sciences and was made a life peer in September 2014 and has previously served as Deputy Director of the Conservative Research Department, previously Deputy Director of Policy Exchange and the Chief Operating Officer and Director of the New Schools Network, leading the charitable New Schools Network, which was part of setting up more than 300 free schools
from 2011 to 2015. Natalie was a cabinet minister in the Theresa May and Boris Johnson administrations from 2016 to 2022 and as the longest serving leader of the House of Lords in 70 years and its youngest ever female leader. She had earlier served in David Cameron's government as junior minister responsible for education, justice, work and pensions. It's wonderful to have Natalie here today. And thank you very much for joining me. Thank you, Hannah. It's lovely to be here.
Thank you. So we're moving straight into our questions. Can you please, we're all very curious, but please tell us about your work in the Lords and the challenges that you face there. And of course, as long as serving as the leader of the House of Lords in 70 years, you're the youngest ever female leader. Can I ask what that feels like? Well, it's been a great honour. I've thoroughly enjoyed my time in the House of Lords. And I was leader at a particularly challenging time.
So during the time I was in the Cabinet, we had Brexit, we had COVID, which was obviously an incredibly difficult time for everyone. And so I'm not sure I had any day that was the same. But it was fascinating. It's obviously a huge honour. to serve in the government and to be at the centre of things. And as leader of the House of Lords, part of my job was to help make sure that all government legislation got through
during those times. So I was lucky enough to be involved in a whole array of different legislation and helping to make sure that we got the government's agenda through. So it's allowed me to have a broad spectrum of interest. And obviously one of the things that happened while I was leader was when Theresa May brought through the binding
targets. net zero we had the big environment bill came through under boris johnson when i was leader so i've been lucky enough to sort of be involved or albeit a higher level rather than getting into the policy detail of a lot of key legislation over the last few years and since stepping down as leader of the lords i've
I still attend. I still regularly go there, but it's allowed me to do some more things outside, such as chairing Salix and sort of hopefully to be able to use my experience and expertise that I developed in my role in the Lords kind of more broadly and help organisations like Salix thrive. Super. So you mentioned the binding targets and we've talked about the net zero challenge that we have. Because my next question is. What interested you in Salix? We have big ambitions,
but we're a relatively small organisation. And obviously we are tasked with this challenge of saving our planet. But what led you to Salix? How did you shift then from this huge amount of work that you're doing with government to an organisation? Well, actually, interestingly, that was one of the questions I was asked at my interview. And to be honest, I was really interested in Salix and really like the work that we do because you can actually see a tangible
impact. I think one of the things often with organisations, you've said Salix is quite small. It is, but it means it's focused and it can get things done. And I think one of the things I was particularly keen on with the organisation was the fact that the work that we do, you can see a tangible benefit and particularly has a real social impact, you know, improving people's homes, improving the experience of patients in hospital. as we saw on a visit to the John Radcliffe
Hospital last week in Oxford. It's actually about being able to deliver money, help ensure projects happen, which I think, as we heard, could never have happened without the money that Salix provides, but actually then see a benefit to people in their everyday lives at the end of the day. And often in some organisations, particularly if they're very big, you don't actually get that link that you can see between the funding or the work that you do with the actual outcomes
that you... that you can deliver. So that was one of the things that really attracted me to the Salix job. And in some ways, Drew, from my experience, as you mentioned, when I was chief executive of New Schools Network, where we were a charity that practically helped people who wanted to set up free schools. So we worked with groups, developing their applications, helped them through the process. And then actually two, three, four years down the line, we're able to
see the schools themselves open. So I've always enjoyed seeing an actual outcome to what I've been doing and I think Salix does that very well and I'm very keen to help the organisation support Kevin and the senior team to continue to do our
great work in this area. Super thank you and going back you mentioned the John Radcliffe Hospital in Oxford because of course I was on that visit with you last week very recently we looked a lot we went behind the scenes we looked at we looked a lot of pipe pipe work we looked at the air source heat pumps what were your what your impressions of going from you've been in the lords you've sat you've been with salix for a short while now um you've got a big understanding
of the work but this is i think one of your first site visits if not your first at a hospital what what did you find to be the most surprising elements of that visit for you and the work that's being done there you mentioned patients you mentioned social value all of the difference this is making yeah What did you find most surprising? Well, I don't think it's surprising, but I think it was a salutary lesson of the complexity of all
of this. And I think that's one of the things, particularly if you're kind of working on policy, it all sounds very easy on paper, doesn't it? And sort of, oh, well, you give the money, then it can get sorted out, off you go. Whereas actually, obviously, when we went around the hospital, you've got patients there, you can't compromise care. the work that went in to try and make sure all this work, which was incredibly technical
and detailed and sort of, well. transformative for the hospital but has to be done without getting in the way the clinicians without you know interrupting the patient's experience without turning things off or causing you know undue havoc so I think although you sort of know that actually seeing on the ground and you know therefore the real collaboration which I was really impressed with between the teams working on from the hospital to their energy partners as they called them
and sort of all the teams working the engagement that the estates team in the hospital have with the clinic to make sure that everyone understood because even within a big organisation obviously you know one of the things was the estates team haven't necessarily got the clinical knowledge or know when the theatres are needed so even within the John Radcliffe itself there was a huge amount of collaboration between different teams added to that the sort of the contractors
and the other people working on it so that was really impressive and just sort of you know then seeing the actual gains afterwards of the improvement in the experience that patients have had but the real organisation the real technical focus to detail that has to happen in order to deliver a project and I think that's one of the great things for our teams and I'm sure you know people working in Salix find is being able to get under the skin of a project it's not just about providing
the money and saying off you go it's actually helping to deliver something that's really complex and I think the learnings around that are really important to go back to government so that they
understand. some of the complexities around it and sort of can make the schemes as user -friendly as they can be absolutely i think when i go on those visits particularly if i accompany delivery team members and i look at how they've worked with that project right from the start and yes we're on tight deadlines and yes The project has to have an end date. But actually, the project doesn't stop there, does it? There's a hospital.
I know that John Radcliffe was talking very much about future proofing and what's going to happen in 10 years and 20 years to sites like that. So absolutely fascinating and lovely to accompany you on that visit, too. So going back to the social impact is we're looking at massive challenges as we face climate change, climate crisis. You turn on the news, it's in our faces every day. whether it's inequalities, pandemics, resource pressures, can government face these challenges
alone? No, I don't think government can face these challenges alone. I mean, it's a partnership. Everyone's got to be brought in, which I think is why there's such a focus as well on making sure you take the public and organisations with you. This isn't something that could be done to people. It's something that we all have to face and work collectively together. But of course, government has a critical role. It's got a critical role about helping to lead the way, about showing
what the priorities are. And also, to be honest, in a time where money's tight and people are facing costs of living, it's also about helping
people. be able to make the right choices and to actually be able to take a step in that direction so i think absolutely government can't do it alone but i think it has an important role to play in direction and leadership and also facilitating and encouraging and also shining a light on good practice that's happening again one of the great things about our organization is we've got so many excellent projects to point to excellent learnings to help other people be able to address
the challenge because i think sort of saying oh it's all scary it's all so big it's all so difficult it can actually make it quite difficult for people to think about how in their lives they can engage in it how in their organizations they can really make a difference and i think government and organizations like salix have got the chance to sort of show it is possible and you can take small steps which can help with the sort of broader ambition, but actually also
then improve the working environment, the lives, you know, the environment that you on an everyday basis are working in. So I think, you know, that's what we all need to do to pull together. Now, of course, you've talked about the net zero conversation. And the reason, one of the reasons I wanted to mention your work with the New Schools Network is because obviously that's all about young children.
That's all about children setting up free schools, giving... more children opportunities that they might not otherwise have had in in learning in those learning environments but of course the younger generation are very much part of this conversation the zero conversation and we go into schools i'm not sure if you've been into a school yet and seen a school project not a school project you will because they are certainly the leaders of the future and there seems to
be a lot of clarity over what children have to say about that um and and indeed the younger generation have been fundamental in this whole conversation in keeping it in the news as well to a certain extent we've seen that um should climate change the discussion around climate change and all of those issues do you think it should be fixed into the national curriculum is it something that you feel that children should be learning and talking about every day just
like we are when we turn up when we turn on the news i mean i certainly think it is You know, it is such a big conversation, something young people are interested in. I'm not sure I'd necessarily mandate it because you could mandate lots of things. But I think actually if you go and talk to schools and go and visit, visit schools around the country, actually looking at what they're teaching is something that is starting to be
embedded. I know my niece has just finished a degree in geography and geography today is a world away from what I studied as geography. And in fact, issues like climate change, regeneration,
all of that actually is now, I think. actually taught in a way that perhaps for me it wasn't so I certainly think it's issues that are raised within sort of various different subject matter at schools and it's something young people are interested in and I know although I haven't been to a project myself I'm chatting to Kevin while we're at the hospital about actually the engagement that Salish projects have with the young people in the schools that they're in I think he was
talking about One school he visited where, you know, the children went out and saw the heat pump being put into place. And then, you know, there was lots of celebration and explanation about what was happening. And actually the teachers were able to use what was practically happening in the school to improve it, to then talk to children about engineering or about how heat works or about how you deal with climate change.
So I think one of the other... and sort of uplifting things about some of the projects we'll do is actually engaging with the people involved in it. And obviously on a school setting, that's a lot of the pupils who can then go back and tell their parents excitedly what they've done, which may make their parents then start to think about what they can do at home. They actually do go home and tell their parents to switch off
the lights. They do. So it is fantastic. And it also, of course, it opens their eyes to careers and opportunities and different ways of doing things. And we know that, I mean, this area is
going to be a huge growth area. terms of future jobs it's one of the things when you talk to businesses and I think looking at sort of some of the things that we want to do is the skills gap with not having enough qualified people to retrofit to get involved in this I was on a select committee looking at 16 GCSE type education in the House of Lords and one of the themes that came through the evidence we had consistently was the lack of skills and sort of the importance
that the kind of retrofitting the climate agenda is going to have on jobs in the future and how we're just not really geared up to do that so I think that is a conversation that's happening and I think it's something that as young people are interested hopefully they will look at careers within this area which can then address some of the skills gaps that we're facing at the moment.
At Salix we're certainly finding that when we do go out on visits to colleges and further education centres where young people are engaged in those projects and have actually ended up coming back and working on some of those projects as well. So fantastic. So we're very positive and I don't want to turn to the negative, but it's a serious discussion. We're talking about net zero. You chair a board of an organisation focused on helping public sector and across housing reach net zero.
Can we get there? We can get there. It's going to be very challenging. And I think we constantly need to be reassessing ourselves and sort of making sure that we're not setting ourselves up to fail. I think we do need to be realistic. But I think coming together and working in partnership, we can get there. There are some very, very challenging targets. I don't think there's any point in denying that. And whether we can quite hit them exactly,
I'm not going to stake my house on it. But I think working together, we are making progress. And it's about sharing the best practice. It's
about learning from ourselves. experience it's always more difficult when you start off and it's something completely new but within our organization now we've been running schemes for several years and we can use that to improve things and obviously technology is constantly improving you know as we go through we only hearing about in the news today new AI happening which is thrown American AI up in the you know up in the air and so you know things are developing
so I don't think we should be depressed about it or worried but I think you know we need to be realistic but what we do need to do is take people with us and we need to understand the context that we're working with and there is no question you know we are in difficult economic times we've obviously got a different approach in America now as well and we'll see what potential impacts that might have. But I think we continue the positive work and you can continue to show
the benefits. And it's about talking about the benefits as well. It's not just a cost on people. It's not just forcing people to change behaviour for the sake of it. It's actually for good, both
for them and for the climate generally. And I think it's about making sure we... keep those strong positive messages at the forefront as well thank you and if we certainly have all of those positive messages and all of that energy and ambition from people like you and you know within Salix talking about Salix and within our teams we indeed we can get there it's just a journey and that's that collaboration and innovation that you talk about for you so you've had a highly
successful career you're having a highly successful career and you're obviously enjoying it But what next for you in terms of your profession? What next? What's your next step? Well, to be honest, I've never had a roadmap, if I'm being honest. I always seem to have sort of gone from one thing to another. And where it's taken me, I can't complain. So I haven't got sort of a definitive, this is where I want to get to. But, you know, obviously in this coming year, it's going to
be an incredibly exciting year for... Salix there's lots going on around lots of new government priorities so helping the organization to navigate that and make sure that we continue to showcase the fantastic work that we do and I'm enjoying the sort of variety of things I'm involved in now so I'm still involved in issues I'm interested in in the Lord so recently spoken on education for instance but I'm also really enjoying using my kind of knowledge and understanding of how
the world of Whitehall and Westminster works in a more sort of commercial and business context and trying to use that for good so I'm hoping to continue with a sort of varied array of roles going forward. Super. Well, we look forward to following this journey that you're on. And obviously, we're very privileged and very proud to have you as chair of our board at Salix. Thank you. Thank you to Natalie. There can be no doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge of our
time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow global warming. Today, we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current and future impacts of climate change. Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate commitment. Today, we work for tomorrow's world. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast and send any views, news, ideas to our podcast email box. And that's podcast at
salixfinance .co .uk. But I really would like to thank Natalie today for taking the time to talk to us about your work. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Thank you. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information about our work and to find more content, please visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.