This is the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. Welcome to Delivering on Climate Change, our collective challenge. Welcome to the Decarbonisation Dialogue. I am Hannah Walker, and I believe that the best way to communicate a message is by being passionate about what you are talking about. Through that passion, I believe you take people with you and create action using your influence to make change and make a difference. Our task today is to get all of us. to net zero.
My guest today is award -winning artist Catherine Boland. Catherine is a multidisciplinary artist based on Australia's south coast, working across painting, photography and digital media. She explores the beauty and fragility of the natural world. Since the devastating 2019 -2020 Australian bushfires that impacted her region, Catherine's work has reflected on humanity's evolving relationship with nature and the ecological crisis we face.
Her recent explorations incorporate emerging technologies to convey environmental themes aiming to deepen our connection with the earth and inspire greater environmental responsibility. Her work has featured in significant global forums, including the Digital Art for Climate Art Award at the 2021 United Nations Climate Conference in Glasgow and the Art Speaks Out exhibitions at the 2022, 23 and 24 United Nations. climate conference in Egypt, Dubai and Azerbaijan, respectively.
In late 2023, Catherine's work, Fireflower, I can't wait to hear about this, created with fire itself, achieved global recognition when it was presented by the Australian Prime Minister as a gift to the then President Joe Biden at the White House during an official visit to Washington. So welcome to Catherine. Thank you very much for coming along. And I cannot wait to... start this conversation. Thank you for having me, Hannah. Now, Catherine, you emigrated from the United
Kingdom. You're originally from the UK, which is where we are. And just for everybody listening, Catherine, we're currently it's around. 10 a .m. here in our time, and Catherine is having this call. Catherine is in Australia, and I think it's around 9 o 'clock at night there, or what time? It's just after 7 p .m. Just after 7, okay. So you're originally from the UK, and you emigrated
to Australia aged four. And can you tell us a little bit about that, about that emigration and then moving and then the focus and your development as an artist? And has your love of arts always been there as something that's evolved? I was four years old, as you mentioned, and my parents came to Australia as 10 -pound poms. So it was assisted passage. So I think my mum and dad were about 30 years old or 32 years old, and they decided that they were choosing between Australia,
New Zealand or Canada. and they chose Australia. So we came by ship. It was a six -week voyage, which I don't remember, except that I was being told I was very, very sick on the way over and nearly had to be hospitalised. But, yeah, so we arrived in Melbourne and settled in Melbourne.
And you ended up, you obviously educated over there in Australia and you ended up going to art school and you had quite an interesting, you know, I've been reading about your experience at art school because you dropped out, didn't you? You found going to art school a little bit disconcerting, didn't you? What's the journey
there with your art education? Yes, I went to art school in the 70s and at that time there was quite a large alternative lifestyle movement happening in Australia and possibly globally, I don't know. So I was doing at that time graphic art and design and it was quite commercial and I was at the same time reading books like Shoemaker's Small is Beautiful. grassroots magazines and earth garden magazines, and it just didn't fit with my burgeoning feelings about the world.
So, yeah, I dropped out and became a hippie in the bush. Yes. So you were at art school, what? for about a year and you decided it wasn't for you? About 18 months, yes, before I dropped out, yes. And was it at that point that you established your studio in the bush because you still have a studio in the bush? No, it took us quite a while. I met my husband and we spent at least two or three years earning money to buy a block of land in the bush. So we eventually saved enough
money to buy 120 acres. on the far south coast of New South Wales and with just 100 acres of bush with nothing on it. So we virtually had to, you know, start from scratch and do everything ourselves. And that in itself was quite creative because I was, you know, weaving and spinning wool and dyeing wool and making pots out of clay and making macrame and all that sort of stuff.
Very creative. Exactly. And I want to speak to you about that in a moment, about that use of those kind of objects like sticks and stones and wool and that kind of that recycling of those materials. But let's turn for a moment to look at climate change because we're facing massive challenges as we face climate change. And Australia, just like the UK, is committed to net zero emissions by 2050. and a target to reduce emissions by
43%, I think, below 2005 levels by 2030. Now, we're facing climate change, we're facing inequality, pandemics, resource pressures, so it's not good news. What role do you think the arts have in getting us focused on some of these issues and creating engagement? Yes, I really believe that the arts can play a big role, especially in raising awareness and getting people engaged with the
climate crisis. I mean, data and statistics are crucial, but art has this amazing ability to communicate complex issues in a way that's emotional and easy to connect with. And it can make something like climate change feel more real and personal rather than just looking at graphs and pie charts. So as an artist, you can graphically show the urgency of a situation and you can use your art to challenge people's views, which might encourage, hopefully, someone to act. And it's not just
about climate. Art can open up space for talking about a whole range of issues. So it can spark empathy, it can get people talking, and it can help us think about choices we make and our impact on the world. So, yeah, I really think that art
can be a real catalyst for change. And how much do you think your own environment, because you haven't just been interested in climate change and what's happening to our planet because you've talked just for a moment ago about the kind of materials and the resources that you've used in your work and you've steered away from the more traditional oil paint maybe and canvas, et cetera, and using a lot of other kind of,
whether it's dirt, mud, wool, as you say. wood a lot of wood um and you're you're burning a lot of um your work as well you use quite powerful blow torches don't you i've seen those images in the studio um how how much do you think it's important to as an artist to to care about your immediate environment because you've talked a lot about the fires around your studio because your area was much impacted by those bushfires. And in fact, I think you've been quoted as saying,
we didn't see the blue sky for six weeks. Well, when I think about where you live and for our listeners, you do live in one of the most beautiful parts of the planet. It's Merambula Lake. You overlook that area and it's incredibly beautiful, known for its beautiful sky and incredible wildlife and birds. Tell me about that experience and how that impacted your work. Well, I've always considered myself a landscape artist. So, yeah, I've always been inspired by my surrounding environment.
But those fires, the Black Summer fires, which were five years ago now, were a huge turning point in my art practice. And I think seeing that destruction up close, it really shook me. And I don't think I've recovered yet, actually. And they call them the forever fires because they burned for six weeks and that just never seemed to end. They just seemed to go on and on. And it's estimated that three billion native animals perished in those fires and that the
area burnt was the size of Syria. So that really hit home just how urgent the climate crisis is. After the fires, I just wanted to do something with my art to raise awareness. And I remember saying to my sister at the time during the fires, this is what I'm going to do. From now on, I'm going to use my art to try and raise awareness about climate change. So I just poured all that shock and despair into my work. And as you mentioned,
I even used fire itself to make art. So that meant burning pieces, painting and burning timber and using pyrographic tools like hot wires to burn into the timber itself. Yeah, in a way that was therapeutic, I suppose, as well. And a lot of that work, it's beautiful. I've looked extensively at your work, mainly obviously through online, and a lot of it has a botanical feel. But certainly after the fires, you've got the titles like, I think it's While the World Burns, Burnt Orange,
Decadence. They're quite haunting. I mean, they're very haunting works, aren't they? The Fireground. They are very haunting works, yes. And I think that's what I want to do. I want my work to celebrate the beauty of the natural world, but also there's an underlying sense of despair in the work. As time goes on, the more I'm confronted with the environmental destruction we're facing, it's
not getting better, it's getting worse. So I see all this natural beauty around me in the world and I can't help but think about what will be lost if we don't act to protect it. So I am actually a bit sneaky. I don't want to turn people off with images of burnt koalas or oil slicks or outright disaster. And I don't want people
to look away in horror. So I try and lure people in with something visually striking and beautiful and then they get hit with the underlying message about climate change or plastic pollution or textile waste or whatever concept I'm trying to communicate. Exactly. Is that what happened with the fire flower, number eight, a work of art that went over to the White House? Tell me about that. That piece was from a series that was actually from a series previous to the Black
Summer fires that happened five years ago. And that work was in response to that. So it's an abstract looking flower on a black background and the black background represents charred landscape, the burnt bush. And the flower itself actually, it's talking about resilience because in Australia, I don't know if you know, but our bushland is incredibly resilient and it's evolved to thrive and survive after bushfire. So in a way it's talking about the despair of the bushfires but
also the resilience of the land afterwards. And it's, I mean, when I said before that I make beautiful work, and that's my thing, but that's not to say I don't make confronting work also. I made a video which was one of the videos that showed at the UN Climate Conference in Abidjan last year. and it's called Aquarium 2050, and it's a video featuring a future where humans are extinct and ocean life has disappeared, and it's a derelict aquarium which stands as a haunting
metaphor for ecological collapse. But even so, I must admit that even that bleak vision has an eerie kind of beauty to it. I love those pieces, the pack mentality. I love that series of pieces. You mentioned the, let's go back for a moment before we, because I do want to talk about the landscape that you have there in Australia and the arid, the semi -arid areas. But just let's go back to the White House for a moment. And
because that pitch, that work of art. was given by the Australian Prime Minister, wasn't it, to the then President Joe Biden of the United States. What did you know about that? I think I read somewhere that your art dealer didn't tell you it was on its way. I knew absolutely nothing about that. I found out my sister happened to ring me and say, Kath, your artwork is on the news, on TV. And I said, no, no, you've got that wrong. She said, turn it on, turn it on,
turn it on. So I did. And I'd missed it, actually, so I had to go and sign up to this television station, which I never watched as commercial because I only watch government news anyway. So I turned, I recorded it, and there it was. And the gallery hadn't told me anything about it. I knew nothing. That was the first I found out about it. You were worried about something. You had to probably go through quarantine. It must have taken a bit of time to get that piece
of art over there or not. But the other shocking thing was that day I got a call from The Guardian newspaper. So I had to actually give an interview for The Guardian newspaper, which is also quite terrifying. But anyway. It got people talking and did it do what you wanted it to do? It did, and because I was hoping that, I mean, in my wildest dreams, I was hoping that possibly the Australian Prime Minister giving that artwork to Joe Biden, there might have been some conversation
about climate change, I don't know. So anyway, it was very exciting. I mean, it's pretty amazing, isn't it, to have a piece of art there. Do you think it's hanging at the White House? Do you think it's? No, it's probably rubbish now. We'll move on from that. It's probably in the poster now. It might be in the archives, but it'll certainly be coming out at some point. So just let's go
back to the Australian landscape. And because Australia, I think I've read somewhere, I will quote this statistic because statistics, as you say, are important as well, because they give us a benchmark of where we are. But I read somewhere that Nearly a third of Australian communities will be spending over... The temperatures will be significantly higher over 35 degrees C, and that's going to double each year by the time we get to 2050. And that's because you're already
facing... You have semi -arid conditions. You've got a lot of, you know, it's very dry, isn't it? So going back, yeah, sorry. Although since the bushfires, this area has had a lot of rain and, in fact, the climate has changed quite considerably. It's got quite humid and wet. And like at this time of year, we don't experience, usually don't experience such humidity. So the climate's all over the place. And are people talking about that where you are now? I mean, do you find everybody
talking about it or do you still? Everybody talks about the weather. Because we want people to talk about it, don't we? Yeah. Everybody's talking about the weather. Yes. Yes. Because we've had horrific floods here recently. We just had a cyclone up north. So it's just. One part of Australia there's bushfires raging and the other part there's
floods and hurricanes. So it's a mess. I mean, I think that was always the case, but I think the frequency and the intensity of these extreme weather events, you know, are just increasing. So going back to those politicians, you're doing what you can to raise awareness because it is all about getting people talking, making it accessible as well. And that's one of the great joys of art, isn't it? You can make it accessible to a lot of people in a way that people can perhaps...
It's relatable. It's relatable, yes. You can have, you can... affect people on an emotional level, which, as I was saying before, is much more powerful, I think, than even data and statistics. It gets people on that level and that's, I mean, I'm just trying to do what I can do because I just, after the bushfires, I just felt so helpless and I just felt, you know, what can I possibly do? And this is the only thing I could think
of that I could possibly do. that could maybe make some tiny bit of difference or at least make me feel that I'm doing something. So you feel positive that you are doing something, although I know art in general is a, you called it, well, you've quoted Brett rightly, haven't you, a difficult pleasure. It's a difficult pleasure, isn't it? That's a quote by Brett Whiteley, yes, the Australian artist Brett Whiteley, a difficult pleasure.
So, no, I think, I mean, since I've started, My work's been put out there on an international level. I mean, I never ever dreamed that for a moment when I started making climate art, you know, all those years ago. But that, you know, that just makes me want to keep going because obviously it's having some impact, even if it's only a small impact. Well, it seems to have had quite a large impact if you've got the Australian Prime Minister gifting a piece of your work to
the President of the United States. So the difficult pleasure that you face and the fact that you do feel positive and that you're making a difference. How do you feel when you see the politicians, world leaders get around the table and talk about this issue? And you've just said everybody's talking about the weather. Indeed, it's... in our news every day for all the wrong reasons. And I mentioned earlier, the economy, it tends to hit the people who can least afford to be
hit. How does that make you feel when you look at the news and you look at the debate going on and you look at the targets that are being set? I don't think there's enough being done at all. I mean, it's... We need extreme measures and, in fact, we're going to go backwards. I mean, Trump's latest, you know, when he's during the campaign, he even mentioned it and he's mentioned it afterwards and he's actually putting things
in place with his drill baby drill comment. You know, he wants to, now he wants to log national parks in America. It's, you know, there's just, even in this country, we've got a Labor government. But they're not doing enough, I don't think. They're still opening, giving approval for coal power stations to be opened in this country. There's still not enough being done to protect national parks and wildlife. So it's very frustrating
as an artist and as a global citizen. So you see that and obviously business has a part to play and all of us have a part to play. And in your day -to -day life, Catherine, you mentioned your studio practices using a lot of recycled material. Can you talk to me a little bit about where does that go? I mean, are you going to continue? How careful are you with the practices and your lifestyle that you lead? involves digital media, so I'm not using a lot of physical materials.
So I'm thinking about, in a way, I've almost deliberately gone towards digital art because I'm thinking about the bigger picture and how I can reduce energy consumption and my work is mostly printed, which I try and get done in the
most sustainable way possible. The digital art I'm making is quite eco -friendly because it doesn't rely on traditional materials that can often have a big environmental footprint like paints and solvents and canvases and other physical resources, which can be wasteful or harmful to produce and dispose of. So working digitally means I'm creating using pixels, not raw materials, so there's a much smaller carbon footprint. And it gives me a way to explore environmental themes
without contributing to the problem. I can experiment endlessly without using up materials and it sort of aligns with the messages in my work, especially around sustainability and climate awareness. And that digital work grew, didn't it, Catherine, during lockdown? I think I read you couldn't get to your studio. Yes, because I couldn't access my studio. But I still wanted to make art, so I had to find a way to make art which meant without using physical materials and having a studio
to create the art in. And at that time I started doing an advanced Photoshop course. So that taught me, you know, how to use Photoshop. And then AI started coming into play and I started experimenting with AI, which was fascinating. And then I started combining photography, so photographs of the landscape and environment I live in, and combining that with AI and combining those images in Photoshop. So it's quite a process that I go through. I've just started actually experimenting with another
technology called scanography. With that, I bought a little scanner. It's called a scanner. I don't know if you know what a scanner is. No. You can scan documents. It's something that scans documents. Oh, yes. You can scan lots of other things. Okay. You can scan things at a very high resolution so that you can actually blow them up quite large. So I've been actually scanning my secondhand clothes and scanning the textile waste and fabric.
and creating these images and designs on the scanner and then taking those images into Photoshop and digitally manipulating them. So that's what I'm doing. Gosh, that sounds fascinating. I can't
wait to look out for that. I've got an exhibition coming up in Sydney called Threading Lightly and it's with the Embroiders Guild of New South Wales and they've got this exhibition on textile art and they've asked me to put, work in in their exhibition coming up this summer coming up this summer uh coming up in uh may in may quite soon okay so now one of your heroes is anson keifa and um he said art is longing you never arrive but you keep going in the hope that you will
Is that true for you, Catherine? What next for you in your life? You've just talked about that. That is so true. I mean, it's always, you're always after the Holy Grail as an artist. You know, it's the journey and it's the longing and you're constantly pursuing something that feels just out of reach and you always, the work you do, you're springboarding off that to thinking about the next work and it's, yeah, so I'm always
exploring new ways to express my thoughts. but I know I'll never get there, never quite arrive. You'll never quite get there. There's always another journey, isn't there? Yeah, you'll keep going. There's always more to learn and create, so yeah. And in terms of you're over there in Australia, your world is your Easter, but your art is all over the world. In terms of the UK, do you visit the UK? And I know that you'd love to have a piece at the... at Tate Modern. Do
you have ambitions for the UK? Look, I'm getting a bit old in the tooth. But, look, over the years I've come back to the UK many times. And, in fact, my parents, after we immigrated to Australia in 1961, we actually moved back to the UK ten years later because my mum and dad got homesick for England. Okay. And we lived there for 12 months, but then we were back to Australia again. You went back, yes. But then I've been back and forth quite a few times and I actually feel quite
at home going back to the UK. There's something, I get off the plane and I feel at home. So I feel at home here and I feel at home there. But, yeah, I can't see myself having a major show in the UK. I do sell my work through a UK -based, artist website called Degree Art. So if anyone is interested, they can check it out there. Super. And, of course, you know, my work, we're a global economy, so people can check out my website and all the things. Of course. And your work will
continue to feature planet and climate. And I do love that quote, Kiefer, art is longing, you never arrive, but you keep going in the hope that you will. Catherine, thank you very much. Thank you for your time today. There can be no doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow global warming. Today, we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current and future impacts of climate change.
Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate commitments. Today, we work for tomorrow's world. Please don't forget to subscribe to our podcast channels and please do let us know what you think and for any ideas as well. And email us at podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. Thank you so much to Catherine for taking up part of her evening to talk to us. It's our morning, but it's your evening to talk to us about your work and climate change and how your work is
impacted by everything that we, well. the biggest issue of our time. So thank you very much, Catherine. Thank you, Hannah. It's been a pleasure. Thank you. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. For more information about our work and to find more content, please visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.