The Decarbonisation Dialogue Episode 1 feat. Kevin Holland

You're listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a podcast from Salix. Welcome to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, delivering on climate change, our collective challenge. I am Hannah Walker, and I believe that the best way to communicate a message is by being passionate about what you are talking about. Through that passion, I believe you take people with you and create action using your influence to make change and make a difference. Our task today is to get all of us to net zero.

Welcome to my guest today, and that's our very own Salix Chief Executive, Kevin Holland. Thank you very much for your time today. Kevin, can we start by talking a little bit about your career? You've gone from being a diplomat, having worked across the world, to working on post-Brexit trading arrangements for Invest Northern Ireland, to now tackling climate change. How did you get here, Kevin? Thank you, Hannah. Happy to talk about that. Well, listen, the first thing is

I'm very happy with the place I'm at. I've got a fantastic role in a kind of fantastic company and we have a real chance to make a difference. How I've got here is really from doing three different things. Fundamentally, I'm a scientist. I'm a chemist by background. I like the science of chemistry. I like the creativity of chemistry. And a lot of my career has been based on data and using evidence to make decisions or to make

recommendations. I had real pleasure bringing new products to market when I started in chemistry and really trying to make tangible things out of evidence and out of science. But then I've also had 10 years' experience running businesses. So if you create new innovations, then it's also very important that people are able to have access

to them and to use them. So I spent a lot of time trying to run global businesses, particularly around healthcare, which is a very mission-driven business to be in, trying to improve the lives of people and patients around the world, and trying to help businesses improve the way that patients can access new drugs, new treatments. that people can lead better lives. But then after spending a lot of time in business, I realised that one is your primary funder is often the

government. And if you really want to be successful, if you really want patients to have best access, you need to understand how governments think. So I thought the only way to really understand that is to go and join them. So I crossed over the other side from private sector to public and have spent a number of years in roles for the UK government, partly in China, looking at

how to improve access to health care. and then partly in Northern Ireland looking at how can we improve the economy, provide people with jobs and kind of good places to work within the economy there. I recently joined Salix. I joined in last year in 2024 and I've been really impressed so far with the company and what it can do and the mission we have to help us save the planet. Thank

you, because you talk a lot there about creativity, innovation and mission. You talked about health care and mission to get people the drugs that they need at the right time in the right place. So that vision and that mission. Tell me about your vision for Salix. So Salix has got a fantastic history and I think has got a very powerful future ahead. The history has been around for over 20

years. During that time, it has made a significant difference to the levels of carbon dioxide across the UK and has improved buildings and homes for a number of people. It's done that by providing funding, actually, so grant funding and loan funding to help buildings change, to become more carbon neutral, to help reduce the usage of gas, to reduce the usage of oil, but also to run more cost effectively and to provide a better living

and working environment. Going forward, the expertise and the experience that Salix has built will make a big difference to the UK as it tries to meet these almost impossible goals that we face going forward. And Salix, the vision I have for it, will be a major contributor to the future improvements of the buildings across the UK. We know there's a really big challenge to be done. Salix has built a fantastic team with expertise.

technical experience and an ability to fund the right people, assess projects and help people make the right kind of decisions in their way forward towards the pathway to net zero. And I think there are many ways that the UK government will need to tackle climate change. Salix will be a part of it as part of Team UK for the UK government and the governments of the other devolved administrations in the United Kingdom. So we're

talking a lot about, obviously, the UK, because, Salix, we do support government on reaching those net zero targets and those, as you say, very ambitious challenges. The UK, we account for about, I think, is it 1 % of emissions? But we are also looking at countries like China, America, India, huge amounts of carbon emissions. And your work, going back to your work as a diplomat, which is largely about... relationship building and how you kind of join it all up and bring

people together. How do you think at Salix we're able to do that across the UK and across the public sector and housing? How can you join these key messages up? Well, I think leadership is really important when we're facing big challenges, big global challenges. And you can't change the world from kind of a small place, but you can do something within your scope and within your remit. And if a lot of people do that, then collectively

you can have a massive impact. So I think the role that Salix can play is joining together with local authorities, with housing associations, with universities, with hospitals, with government funding bodies, with technical experts from the private sector, with consultants. to try and make some collective difference to what the UK can do. And I think it's really important to focus on what we can do more than worrying sometimes

about what we can't. Because if you demonstrate that things can be better, then I think you can create a collective will to try and move things forward. Now, I know since you've been at Salix, you've been able to go out actually and see some of the work that we do for real. You've been going on to site visits, looking at projects, whether it's hospitals, schools. Do you get that feeling that everybody's working on that kind of whole of society approach when you go on sites?

Do you get the feeling that everybody's working together and how that message is being? conveyed?

So one is I love going out to see the impact of the work we do live real time with real people in houses where I've seen some houses with amazing conversion actually from simple old houses to beautiful moderate installations warm and comfortable or looking at what we've done in schools where drafty old schools where the kids would not want to be inside and study are having a fantastic time and the teachers are thrilled because they become a lot easier to teach. So it's really

impactful to see things firsthand. I don't think that everyone is signed up to the agenda. I think this is very different, I think, to working in something like healthcare, where people have been aware of illness and disease for a very long time. The whole decarbonisation journey is a lot younger. But what I've seen real time is that I think we can develop passionate advocates

for change. By meeting the people who've gone through these kind of journeys, where they've transformed their house or their building or the university they work in or the hospital they work in, and they see the benefits of decarbonisation at a personal level, and also hear about the benefits and the importance of decarbonisation at a global level. And I think we've taken people who perhaps didn't have any interest in it before. to be the champions that we will need in the

future. I think working with schools is really fantastic actually because... You listen, parents listen to children. And actually, if you listen to some of the interviews I've seen with young children talking about what they want for their future and what their children will need, I think they can provide a very compelling push to the kind of older generations who have funding and authority to try and make the world a better

place through decarbonisation. So do you think the projects that we work on and, for example, in schools and housing, Better insulation in there. We're installing heat pumps, looking at solar PV, all of those measures that are funded by government and through the schemes that we deliver. Do you think that that is enough or do you think that really is impacting the local community as well? As you say, schoolchildren in the schools that you visited are getting those

heat pumps. They're now enjoying warmer classrooms. They don't have to wear their coats on during lessons. But do you think that they, how important is it that they then go out into the community and talk to their parents about switching, whether it's switching the lights off, whether it's energy conservation, whether it's recycling, sustainability? Are we just the start of that message then through our work? I mean, I think we're at the beginning

of a journey which is going to be bumpy. is going to be fast and it's going to be really, really important. I think the more we can get advocates to come and join us, then the better and the more impactful it will be. We need to get the kind of young people engaged because I think it helps engage others. But we also need to look at all of the stakeholders involved and participate in increasing understanding, increasing trust by looking at the impact of things that have

been done. and giving confidence in the things that are possible because i think there is it's an area where there may be preconceptions in some area that it's too difficult or too hard or too expensive So even when people start to realise the importance and the need of decarbonisation, they maybe don't always know where to go or what to do. And I think we can really help with that role. So there's some advocacy we can do, some technical expertise we can bring. We can certainly

do experience sharing. You know, I think we've got a team of about 230 people, something like 70 people who have studied experts in geography. We've got technical experts who understand aerosource heat pumps. we will be looking at what is the innovation and the technology of the future, because the pathway that we have to go on... is going to be long. It will be 5, 10, 15, 20 years with different targets along the way. But

during those times, technology will change. And as an organisation, we're making sure that we're at the cutting edge of understanding what those changes are, so we can advise people well for how they can address the kind of issues that they have. And that's a huge area of excitement,

isn't it, about where the technology is going to go. And obviously, we've got AI there. And every day, our teams, as you say, are looking at projects trying to break new ground and be innovative in whether it's cutting carbon emissions, whether they're looking at geothermal heat pumps, ground source heat pumps. It's quite incredible, the work that is going on at the moment, as you say. So we've got a lot of targets, climate change targets. Climate change is on our news every

day. The UK plans net zero by 2050. 80 % of local authorities in the UK have pledged net zero before 2050. And Scotland's got tough targets, as has Wales. We're delivering our projects at great speed, I think, and under a huge amount of... kind of pressure ready. You really feel it in the public sector as schemes try and deliver to huge hospital projects and schools. Targets. Do the targets, Kevin, go far enough? Because we are seeing climate change on our news every

day. People are being left homeless because of climate change and have been for a while. Are the targets enough? So I think targets are really important. They will move as we go through the journey. I think to start with, we have to set a kind of big, bold leap, a big goal that we're going to fix this. And collectively, I think we can fix this between government. private sector and public will. If we get those three elements

right, I think there is a pathway forward. You add in a nice mix of science, then I think there is a way to do this. In terms of setting targets, you have to set targets, you also have to meet targets. So setting them and then not being able to describe a pathway that will get there is

not really the way forward. We have to decide what a realistic... difficult but achievable target is in the near term map a pathway to get there identify the types of policies that are needed and the type of delivery mechanisms that are necessary to do that and then set the next milestone and the next milestone behind that so we need a big goal and a commitment to fix it but then some good milestones along the way But milestones without delivery plans are wishes,

not pathways. And I think we need to make sure we do that. And how do you bring people? How do you think you bring people with you? Kevin, you're working, as I say, you've joined Salix not so long ago. You've been here for a few months. How are you going to take the team at Salix with you on targets? We face, my colleagues are on tight targets every day. So we have a fantastic

team. The nicest thing walking into Salix as an organisation, whether our Manchester office or our London office or meeting teams that we have around the country, is we have a team of passionate believers that this is important. So I think we are a mission -driven company and the people who work here do so because they believe that the goals we're trying to achieve are right for them and their families and the other people

around the world. So I don't think we have a challenge to try and motivate the team to do it. I think the challenge we have is laying out the pathway of what is the most effective way for Salix and the other organisations we work with, whether it's consultancies or DESNES, the department within the government, or the universities. I think it's the how to do it that's going to be important. And I think we have to recognise that there will be setbacks sometimes along the

way. But achieving 90 % of a really ambitious goal is much better, I think, than trying to achieve 150 % of something which is a limited goal and too easy. And I think we've got quite a competitive team who will be quite up for tackling some difficult things together. And for yourself,

you've got that diplomatic experience and you've got business experience working, as you say, in the healthcare sector. How do you think your skills that you've acquired over your years of experience have put you in a good position to take on this very ambitious challenge now working with governments across the UK. So, you know, I believe in the balance of public sector and

private sector as being really critical. And I think it's quite rare to have people who have seen both sides and know how both sides function. But I really believe that is a core partnership that needs to work to make decarbonisation happen. And I'm very happy to be engaged with that. And then I really do believe that science is a large part of the answer. So having some type of technology or a science -driven agenda is important, and

important in two ways. One is so that we really look at what are the technologies of the future and what impact they can have, but also to look at the data and the evidence that can be collected from the work that's being done. Now, within Salix, we've done many, many houses, many universities,

many schools. and as have the partners we've worked with, we still probably have some work to do to be able to drill down, analyze, and try and get the most of the learnings from that so that we can give the best pathways forward to people who come to us for advice in the future. But I think this blend of science, public and private, and then evidence -based is actually a really useful way forward, and that's what I'm looking forward to lead here. Fantastic.

Thank you very much. Are we ambitious enough? We talk about sustainability. Is aiming for sustainability enough? As a population, are we ambitious enough? I think the goals of everyone is to have, I think a wise person told me once that it's got a health, wealth and happiness. These are the three things that you need in your life. And it's when the first part goes that the other two become much

less important. We have to be ambitious for sustainability, that you have to plan for multiple generations of the future. And that's why I like this decarbonisation agenda. Healthcare, we tend to focus on individuals who are alive today. How can we make their lives better? Decarbonisation is about making lives better for this generation, the next generation,

the generation after. So I think the ambition has to be there's a thousand generations behind us who are going to live wonderful lives on this planet. I do think the ambition has to be a really positive one, because I think often the decarbonisation agenda sinks into things that can go wrong and tales of woe and disaster. But I do think we need to have an ambition of the kind of paradise of the future. It has to be a beautiful world for the hundredth generation behind us to live

in. And to be able to do that, you need the... the the environment to be right but we also need to be able to fund it and create the kind of employment and the jobs and build the economy that can help us get the pathway very quickly to um to this kind of wonderful future for the generations behind us so you see this space very much as an area of opportunity don't you for the economy for jobs for skills you see it very much as a as a area of growth you talk about

because you've talked about that woe and disaster for most people sitting at home if they're watching the news They'll see that word disaster on their screens, but you're seeing it as opportunity. So I think often the news is driven by events and often catastrophic events attract attention. And kind of wonderful, peaceful things are less interesting perhaps. But if we look at the actual work and the outcomes, 99 % of things that will need to be done will be positive changes for

the future. And there'll be 1 % or 5 % of challenges that need to be dealt with. Along the pathway to a decarbonized future, there will be a chance to create economic benefits. There will be a chance to create employment. There will be new roles and types of technologies and kind of expertise that people can acquire along the way. There'll be new ways of living. If you look at some of the people who are the planners for the future,

what does a future city look like? What would it look like if you designed today from the ground up? It would be very different. And those kind of things really can create opportunities for companies and for people, both for employment as well as for better lives. And making it more affordable, of course, for people, making it not just desirable, but it's something that people can afford to do. Which is going to be critical.

And if you create economic opportunity for communities, then there should also be a chance for kind of wealth for the individuals within that. And it's fantastic to hear that optimism from you, Kevin, which I would hope from our chief executive and kind of that way forward. But more personally, the climate future for your kids, for your grandchildren, you've talked about generations to come. Are

you an optimist? Or pessimist? Listen, I'm an optimist because what I've seen in the last few months, particularly looking at this subject more closely, is the governments are committed. OK, and they have challenges. If you look at COP 29, there is disagreement because it's a massive task for global leadership to be able to try and solve this. But they're sitting at a table. There'll be COP 30. There'll be COP 31. There'll be COP 40. There'll be COP 50. There

is a global will to do something. And I believe in the power of kind of humanity to try and make this work out. So, yes, I'm an optimist that we will fix it. We have to. And I think people believe that. We have to. We have no choice. And I know that we were recently in a school together and we visited a school and the children really look at it as clearly as that. There is no choice. We have to go forward and we have to fix it. Fantastic. Thank you very much, Kevin,

for your time today. You've provided such an incredible insight into this whole agenda and we're very privileged to have you as one of our guests. In fact, our first guest of our decarbonisation dialogue. Thank you, Hannah. There can be no doubt that climate change is the biggest challenge of our time. Today, we must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to slow global warming. Today, we must act for tomorrow, adjusting our lifestyles to current and future impacts of climate change.

Today, we must use our collective wisdom to deliver on our climate commitments. And today, we must work for tomorrow's world. So please do keep in touch with us. And you can email with your ideas and suggestions regarding our podcast series to podcast at salixfinance .co .uk. And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast channels. Thank you. And thank you to Kevin. You've been listening to the Decarbonisation Dialogue, a

podcast from Salix. For more information about our work and to find more content, please visit salixfinance .co .uk forward slash podcasts.